User talk:SlimVirgin/Archive37

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[edit] Inappropriate talk Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship#Malber's continuing disruption

Can you please review this and possibly remove it? User:Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington appears to be confusing WT:RFA with WP:RFC. This discussion has woefully gone from a discussion on the nature of my question to an attack on me. You know me and you know my history and you know that I'm the last one to cry, "Rogue admin!" but Mimsy's behavior of late has become bizarre. I've even been blocked by this administrator in order to prevent me from participating in discussion at WP:RFA. Thanks! —Malber (talk • contribs) 13:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protected Edit page

Hi! See this and if you can, link it into the main page. T'would be a good idea to disimbedd the three 'In-Your-Face' tags to a seperate sub-group, and then fix up the order in this to match. Also, is there a tag which asserts something smells of pov, along the lines of {{fact}}? I'm rushed and can't find right now. Thanks // FrankB 19:11, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sandy Dancer

This User is clearly a sock puppet for someone. Is there no way it can be checked? He is changing articles on right-of-centre Tory groups in Great Britain so that fundamental details relevant to them have been removed altogether. The articles naturally become demonised. The only other Users I can see who relentlessly did this before were Guy Chapman, Ed Chilvers, and Homeontherange. Chelsea Tory 21:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Yeah, right. Anyone whose political opinions lie to the left of Atilla the Hun is clearly a sockpuppet of Stalin as far as you're concerned :o) Guy (Help!) 19:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
    • SV, I just noticed this here - someone inquired on my talk page once if I was the same person (apparently we both speak Spanish). Yikes - no, I'm not a dancer, don't agree with her assessment of the best countries for beer, and have spent one week in the UK. Yikes - too much similarity having another Spanish-speaking Sandy on board. Sandy (Talk)
      • Having checked around more now, if there's ever a checkuser, I hope someone will make sure I'm notified and included, so I can be absolved - because there is mention of socks, it's troubling me that someone asked once if we are the same person. Sandy (Talk) 15:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
        • Hey Sandy - chill! There's no need for a checkuser and no-one looking at out edit histories would ever think you and I were the same person. To my knowledge, this is talk page is the first time we've ever edited in the same place!
        • As Guy says, the user who is complaining about this is someone with a political agenda proudly displayed on their user page, with no interest in maintaining civility or NPOV. Ignore him, like I am. Let the "Real Conservative policeman" tend to his lonely beat. Happy editing! --SandyDancer 01:26, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Karenga4.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Karenga4.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — BigDT 01:46, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:Taylor Allderdice High School

Appreciate some help at the above page, I think I've got a POV or OR pusher, who is attempting to slowly insinuate the school endorsed a drug culture based on their schooling their. It's quite a complicated debate, you may need to read the whole talk page to get the gist of it all. Anyway, your thoughts would be most welcome, I've had an RFC up for a couple of weeks and gained no responses. Steve block Talk 12:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your congrats

Hi SlimVirgin :-) Thanks for your congrats and your support. I found out I got the seat by seeing your congrats on my talk page! Wishing you a Very Happy New Year! --FloNight 13:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

lol ;-) FloNight 13:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Philosophy

Trying to improve the above.

Encountering arbitrary & capricious Reversions.
Your expertise (against "troublemakers?") would be useful & certainly appreciated by me.
Yours truly, --Ludvikus 14:00, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marsden/Lotuslander

Check the earliest edits to the article in the deleted edit history, looking for a specific red-linked user. I'm not convinced in the present case, and the user's other edits are too old for checkuser, so the only thing that could verified is a "likely" finding based on the geographic location of the IP address. Dave702 and Lotuslander and Howlder are certainly knowledgable about wiki procedures and the Marsden case, and I doubt they are either of the two admins in good standing who previously edited the article. Thatcher131 15:47, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your explanation

Nice. Jkelly 03:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Jkelly. Thank you for writing that; it's well-stated and considerate, and is especially nice to see given that I know that you have disagreed with parts of it in the past. Kat Walsh (spill your mind?) 04:11, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you both. Well, I was a late convert, and you know what they say about the zeal of the convert. ;-) Seriously, I've been slowly persuaded by all your arguments, yours and Greg's, and also by feeling guilty every time I went to the Commons and saw how much easier it was each time to find appropriate photographs. If everyone relied on fair use, that resource wouldn't exist, and that helped me to step back and see the bigger picture. I'm sorry it took me so long. SlimVirgin (talk) 04:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Muhammad al-Durrah

Could you please look in at Talk:Muhammad al-Durrah#2 disputed links? Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 04:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Slim, did you read the linked article? I don't uniformly object to World Net Daily being linked (though I happen to think it is often gutter journalism), but in this case, the linked article is dreck. It is an exaggerated rehash of someone else's opinion column. There are plenty of better pieces from essentially the same point of view already linked. - Jmabel | Talk 06:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sandy Dancer et al

I thank you for your message. I will see what I can do for you but I am pressed for time. It is not just the Left who play a prominent part in British politics but also the Right. Therefore some degree of balance is required. Sandy Dancer has significantly demonised the Conservative Monday Club article, removing information on the organisation which appears to me, at least, to be part of its story. Guy Chapman completely deleted the article on Western Goals (UK) without proper procedure, and redirected enquirers to the Western Goals Institute which he subsequently put up for deletion. That failed so it was then "re-edited". Now the well-known Conservative Democratic Alliance has been flagged for deletion by Ed Chilvers, who has been on some sort of crusade against all those involved in these right-wing Tory groups since arriving on Wikipedia. In addition some of his more revealing remarks on the deletion log appear to have been removed by...Sandy Dancer, who, as it looks like the proposal for deletion may fail, has announced that he will now "re-edit" the article. It seems to me that if these few Wikipedians don't like traditional Tories (those who Guy Chapman refers to above as "to the right of Attila the Hun" - rather giving his own position away) then you should delete all these articles rather than permit their demonisation and the unfair slurs on the thousands of members who must have passed through them all. Chelsea Tory 11:24, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

  • I wish to place it on record that I completely refute all of the above allegations.--Edchilvers 11:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
  • Me too. All total nonsense and should be treated as such. People should be allowed to participate in the Wikipedia project without harassment - SlimVirgin, please don't help him do so to me or anyone else. This "Real Conservative policeman" seems to want a police state on here!
  • I removed a long post by EdChilvers (containing quotes from a third person) because I thought they shouldn't have been posted, particularly not in a AfD debate. If that is enough for this person to instigate a witch hunt against me, then you are letting CheckUser be used for blatant fishing. Don't give him the satisfaction. --SandyDancer 01:28, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
It is interesting that Ed Chilvers has also called for the deletion of Michael Keith Smith, but even more interesting that Sandy Dancer makes the following comment on the deletion log: "This looks like a re-run of Gregory Lauder-Frost". From what I can see Sandy Dancer did not exist during that argument. Chelsea Tory 12:08, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Yawn ... but I have read the discussion, after you accused me of being EdChilvers' sock, didn't I? As I have previously explained. You are really clutching at straws now. Pathetic, tiring, and dull. Stop harassing me. As you will see from my edit history, I make legitimate edits to Wikipedia. You do not - you are just here to push a partisan line. --SandyDancer 12:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I have made legitimate complaints to a responsible administrator. I hope they will be investigated. Chelsea Tory 11:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

If you think any admin is going to do a checkuser for no reason and simply to allow you to go fishing, you are deluding yourself. This is frankly ludicrous - you were asked to provide diffs backing up your accusations and you aren't able to, because the whole thing is groundless. You yourself have been accused of being a sock puppet - and look how you responded, here and here. Why was that "childish", and this "legitimate"? Just another example of your double standards. I am tired of being harassed by you. --SandyDancer 15:42, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User KazakhPol

Hi SV, Thanks for your edits etc on the page about the Tahrir party, related to the unfounded claim that they are terrorists. I suspect you hold similar views to my own about the user KazakhPol; he lacks civility, launches regular personal attacks, is very biased, and uses very poor english. I thought I might warn you that he seems to be moving in on a number of pages related to Islam, I have noticed that he has started deleting whole sentences on the page Caliphate. Aaliyah Stevens (talk) 12:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

He also making regular accusations of terrorism against HT in the following articles:

And contributed to a ludicrous article about a respectable british lawyer named: Makbool Javaid, and provides references in these articles that don't say what he claims, or are not credible references, or sleectively quotes misrepresenting the reference.Aaliyah Stevens 16:24, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I did not start the page on Javaid, and the references support the content on those three pages. KazakhPol 16:54, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of dictators

I'm really annoyed.

After I and many others worked hard to make this article truly excellent and indeed an exemplar list on wikipedia, the same people that tried to get the previous list deleted come along a pull a scam like this.

I don't know if the deletion was marked at the top of the page, but I check the article from time to time and didn't notice it. They picked the holiday season when no one was looking, lost the vote, deleted anyhow using the same argument that was explicitly rejected by the community now and before. They gave no notice to the people who were watching the article. Deteting admin Doc Glasgow had previously been heavily involved in the article and should have recused himself anyway. Hundreds of hours of people's time have been deleted on the whim of a admin with in axe to grind.

Carefully worked out criteria, methods of discussion, 120 references, dozens of articles linking in, a fantastic resource.

Again to refute the silly argument made by some that dictator is an "inherently POV" descriptor, simply search wikipedia for the word dictator and notice how many people are described that way. Britannica, Encarta etc all do so, as do all news outlets.

What can I do?

juicifer 14:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Whatever you do, count me in, and let me know, pls. Sandy (Talk) 15:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
hmmm, why did I know 172 would be there. Deleted in spite of a Keep consensus. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of dictators. Sandy (Talk) 15:40, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi Slim

Can you help me ?

people are using WP:OR and "www.Palestinieremebered.org" instead of WP:RS here:

Palestinian_exodus#The_so-called_.22Suba_Ruins.22

Thanks, Zeq 15:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Slim: There is a problem with the WP:OR policy which may allow users to enter via the caption OR info that has never been published (because it is not true) . The policy must be changed so that caption info (and connection of the caption to the photo) will have a primary source verification. (other than wiki editor) see above link. Zero argue that the photo is true because he trust the wiki editor who loaded it. Zeq 07:51, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's up with Ancient Historical Persecution By Jews?

Appears that Sjakkalle wants to delete this article -- please don't let that happen.

One thought on the article. Ancient Historical Persecution By Jews is quite an awkward title. It certainly isn't intuitive as a search term. Any thoughts on what would make a better name? Majoreditor 01:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy New Year

May the new year bring you peace, happiness, love, and hope for all things you wish for. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 16:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Messianic Judaism

Template:Messianic Judaism has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. IZAK 19:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Apologies

I am sorry that I have not yet had the time to catologue my complaints. With three children my time is limited. In the meantime you might care to assess the comments made on my Talk page and also the comments on the Talk page for the Western Goals Institute as well as the remarks on the AfDs for the Conservative Democratic Alliance (now failed) and Michael Keith Smith]] (current). It is important to check the histories also as some remarks are removed after they havd been posted. Chelsea Tory 11:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

If you genuinely believe I am a sockpuppet of EdChilvers - see here Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets. Initiate a discussion about it. If you don't genuinely believe I am a sock puppet, and you are only doing this harass me, stop doing it. In other words - put up or shut up.
Likewise if you genuinely believe some of my edits have been unhelpful - either discuss on the talk page of the article in question or just go ahead and make edits. If you don't have any legitimate reason to disagree with any of my edits, and are only posting messages about me here and elsewhere on Wikipedia in order to be abusive, stop doing it. --SandyDancer 17:11, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

happy new hear!!! Blueaster 00:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adolf Hitler's contacts with Jewish people

Hi SlimVirgin: Have you ever had a close look at this strange article: Adolf Hitler's contacts with Jewish people? It's full of red links for the supposed Jews he had contact with (do they deserve articles just because they were Hitler's alleged dentist/shoe-shine-boy/chimney-sweep/whatnots etc?) It's weirdly prurient. The heading stinks. Do all the Jews killed in the Holocaust get to be in it? How about all the theories about Hitler having a Jewish ancestor, does that also count as him having "contact" with Jewish people? I doubt that the originators of this article and those who worked on it have rational objectives. It should be merged with something else involving Adolf Hitler or even deleted for its stupidity. (If not, how about Adolf Hitler's contacts with gypsies, Adolf Hitler's contacts with Italian people, Adolf Hitler's contacts with Russian people, Adolf Hitler's contacts with retarded people, Adolf Hitler's contacts with murderers this can go on forever, and then we can even create Category:Adolf Hitler's contacts with people. IZAK 02:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming Zionism and racism

Hi SlimVirgin: Shouldn't the Zionism and racism article be renamed to Allegations of Zionism and racism as with Allegations of Israeli apartheid? What are your thoughts? IZAK 02:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happy New Year

Happy New Year, Slim. All the best for a great 2007! El_C 04:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mala Zimetbaum

of possible interest to you, see also User talk:IZAK#Mala Zimetbaum. Cheers, Tomertalk 01:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

Why did you remove this comment? Thanks, Dar-Ape 21:22, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I personally would have given the benefit of the doubt and simply responded like this, but I respect your judgement. Thank you for the prompt reply, Dar-Ape 21:32, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image:AlexLinder.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:AlexLinder.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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[edit] Image:AlexPacheco(PETA).jpg

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[edit] About WP:ATT, could you maybe provide the rationale on top of the talk page?

Hello, I really like the WP:ATTRIBUTE proposal, and since I've messed it up completely, you might want to fix it up again :) However, it would also be nice, if you would place a nice infobox on top of the talk page that explains what were the motivations and what is the intention of the proposal. --Merzul 13:57, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi. You might want to take a look at the proposal at WT:V to discourage removing unsourced information, which comes from a recent sex slang dictdef AfD spree. Jkelly 23:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Funny Swastika

Hi SlimVirgin: Take a look at these templates:

with the Image:HinduSwastika.svg displayed prominently. Honestly, of all of Hinduism's symbols' did this one have to get "headline" billing on these templates? Alternatives are aplenty if one were to look around on articles listed on {{Hindu Deities and Texts}} where there are dozens of less offensive symbols that could be chosen for the same purpose. While the swastika may be ok with some Hindus, it should not be flashed around "in all innocence" because for the rest of the world that was caught up in World War II it was the symbol of literal EVIL, DEATH and DESTRUCTION emanating from the Nazis. It was Hitler's personal diabolical "symbol of choice" and for that reason it is VERY far from neutral, no matter in what context it is used. It violates Wikipedia:Civility to have it displayed in such an "in your face" fashion on these Hindu templates, giving it a dubious "place of pride" it does not deserve. Need one say more? IZAK 22:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Universal Image Format

This is why it was protected. This group of IPs keep coming in, all Uifan (talk • contribs • logs). — RevRagnarok Talk Contrib 23:04, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Hello SlimVirgin and a Happy New Year! --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 17:49, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hey there cool breeze

I kvetch about it enough that I've finally made a small change to the request for comment template. Wasted effort, scrap everything? - brenneman 06:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] recomendation

Post-Zionism, Post Holocaust

by: Elhanan Yakira

Get this book: http://www.am-oved.co.il/HTMLs/product.aspx?C1010=17211&BSP=13483 by Prof Yakira. It will go a long way to get academic backing to many things you already know as well as some new ones. Zeq 07:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forking Religious anti-Semetism / Anti-Judaism

I'm just going to fork these for now as I'm rather conviced these two terms have distinct meanings. By wikipedia's own definition, anti-Semetism "can range in expression from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution." Anti-Judaism, as a theological position, has nothing to do with any of that. -- Kendrick7talk 07:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

When I restore Anti-Judaism in the next few days, there will be plenty of sources attesting to the difference. I will hope you will not continue blanking the page and replacing it with a redirect, as this could be considered vandalism. -- Kendrick7talk 00:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joel Teitelbaum

Hi Crz, would you mind reverting this back to the pre-3RR version? It's currently protected on Chussid's version with the link to the personal website. Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I am not going to do that. You may very well be right, but I am not editing the protected page crz crztalk 23:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
You protected it. :-) It's quite normal to revert to a pre-3RR version before protecting a page, because otherwise the protection rewards the violator. But it's up to you; I don't want to interfere with your admin decisions. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:13, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
It would be tantamount to joining the editwar. Figure it out, ask some nonjews for input on whether the links are up to WP:EL, and then we can all remove it together once it's unprotected. crz crztalk 23:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
For an unbiased look. I like to involve a gentile or two in intra-Jewish wars to try and be neutral. crz crztalk 23:22, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I am suggesting there are hardly any Jews that do not hold pre-conceived opinions on the issue of Israel and Zionism, which is what this war comes down to. crz crztalk 23:41, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

  • on a completely unrelated matter, c r appears to be trying to start an edit war on Moshe Hirsch. perhaps a responsible admin should pre-empt him by blocking the page? :)  ⇒ bsnowball  16:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] BigDT's RfA

I agree, sort of, with your comment here, but what do you want to do about the problem? It's not the candidates' fault that RfA regular voters tend to over-represent IRC fairies, wanna-be admins desperate to increase their Wikispace edit count, and non-writers in general, with the result that the process becomes an exercise in groupthink. Wikispace edits are wonderful. Article writing? Anyone can do that. Most Wikipedia editors, the ones who actually create the content, wouldn't know where RfA was. I go through periods where I apply 1FA and the like, but it never lasts. I'd hardly ever support anyone, and what good would that do for something that is supposed to be no big deal? Looking for some good ideas, Yours grumpily, Angus McLellan (Talk) 01:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for helping with Yzak

I am hesitant to get into any kind of dispute since I'm still ... a little off balance due to personal messes. :) --ElaragirlTalk|Count 09:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Some advice

Thank you for approaching me in a civil manner about it. Is there some formal process to take Barnstars away or something? I didn't think Doug Bell should be blatantly trolling WP: Gundam on his userpage like that. Yzak Jule 10:03, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I guess I'll have to. Thanks for being helpful instead of just screaming at me. :-) Yzak Jule 10:09, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Antisemitism

Hi SlimVirgin,

Please have a look at this [1]

Please read the "Bernard Lewis, whose Jews of Islam..." onwards. Thanks --Aminz 13:40, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Help:Talk page

SlimVirgin, Help:Talk page has thousands of incoming links - until these are fixed, there should be a redirect in place to Wikipedia:Talk page. I'll create one shortly. Is there any reason not to have one, other than the fact that it's a cross-namespace redirect?Picaroon 22:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I already added the redirect before I came here; hope that's okay. There's also some confusion in the talk pages for these pages (which are about talk pages). Wikipedia talk:Talk page redirects to Wikipedia talk:Talk pages, while Wikipedia:Talk pages redirects to Wikipedia:Talk page. The plurality of the project-page and the talk-page-for-the-project-page should probabbly agree. —DragonHawk (talk) 22:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing that so quickly! —DragonHawk (talk) 22:47, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Protection on Anti-Zionism page

Is this necessary? At what point will it be removed? I left a comment for you on the talk page. Thanks, Mackan79 15:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ArbCom case regarding User:Gnetwerker block

I have filed an ArbCom case regarding your role in the block on my account. You are hereby notified. -- Gnetwerker 20:03, 11 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image:AnnaReynolds.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:AnnaReynolds.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:

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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:AnyaRudiger.jpg

Warning sign This file may be deleted.

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[edit] Wikipedia in PDF available?

I have this new idea, to have a link on every page and when you go there you'll see the article as PDF. What do you say Slim? Do you support my idea? Thanks, --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 14:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC at Steven Hassan article.

Hello SlimVirgin. If you have time, would you mind taking a look at my RfC at Steven Hassan? Thanks much. Tanaats 16:14, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Query regarding names in other languages

Hello SlimVirgin,

I have been having a discussion with a fellow editor over here and we seem to disagree about whether or not to put Sunita Williams' name in Hindi on her page. I have been arguing against putting her Hindi name, because Williams is a citizen-by-birth of the USA (please see the aforementioned talk page for more details). Her Indian link is through her father who was an Indian immigrant. Just for the sake of uniformity and for future reference, I would like to know if it is appropriate to include names in the native tongue of people who are the second (or generally, nth) generation offprings of immigrants.

I would appreciate your opinion on this. Is there any WP rule/guideline that can throw more light on the issue? I read this and this, but couldn't find a lot of relevant information.

Thanks, Max 10:40, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

CC to: User:Bhadani, User:Aksi_great

[edit] Jeremiah Duggan

I happened to look at this page the other day and I note that some editors are persistently adding material that is not connected with the subject. On first glance, I thought that they simply lacked a source, but on a closer look, I realised that the stuff they are trying to insert has no connection to Mrs Duggan's views, but is a rebuttal of what her views are about. My argument against including it is as follows:

You have a statement X about a person Y's views about a thing Z.

Any "balancing" (or POV, if we can frankly call it that) must address X, not Y's views about Z. Any rebuttal that says that Y does not hold the views on Z will constitute original research in the context of X because you are creating the thesis that your discussion of Y's views on Z rebuts X. I think this is an important issue because it happens all too often.

Compare this:

SlimVirgin said in the New York Times that the world is flat. However, the world was shown by a 1989 National Geographic Survey to be round.

In my view, this is completely disallowed by WP:NOR or ought to be. Britannica would allow it because, although reasonably balanced, its pieces are given as the opinions of expert authors. Ours purport not to be.

This though would of course be permissible:

SlimVirgin said in the New York Times that the world is flat. However, Grace Note explained in a follow-up article in the Washington Post that the world was shown by a 1989 National Geographic Survey to be round.

I don't suppose that this standard has much hope of being applied across the encyclopaedia, because the "rebuttal style" of article writing is so beloved, and original research is very hard to root out, given that most people don't realise that simply "writing what they know" is in itself an indulgence in OR, but I think that this clear case should be decided in accordance with the view I've set out here. Grace Note 05:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bernadotte

SlimVirgin,

perhaps you've forgotten, but we interacted briefly on the Bernadotte talk page, maybe a month ago. I was tagging some stuff about allegations of Nazi sympathies, and you asked me to hold off, while Zero did some research. And I did delete the tag. Zero came back with better sources for the article.

But the edits that Amoruso is edit-warring over now are essentially those that Zero generated. Mackan's in the clear here, no matter what is happening elsewhere in wikipedia. Jd2718 06:24, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

I thought you'd like to know that I mentioned you in my 3RR report of Amoruso. (The comment is both unfavorable and favorable to you, in the same sentence) Jd2718 15:22, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Auschwitz concentration camp

Hi there. I have taken the liberty of reverting your edit to the first paragraph of this article. I recognise, and apologise for, the fact that this also removes a perfecly valid link which you added.

But the absolutely critical point, and the whole thrust of the article, is that Auschwitz-Birkenau was not a concentation camp, it was an extermination camp, and the distinction is overwhelmingly important. Auschwitz I was certainly a concentration camp, and Auschwitz-Monowitz was a work camp. These were all different categories, with different kinds of prisoners and different treatment meted out thereto. If you choose to change back, please do not lose the word "extermination" from the opening paragraph.--Anthony.bradbury 16:49, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hizb ut-Tahrir

You are going to request admin action against me for what exactly? The last time I edited Hizb ut-Tahrir with anything either you or AS contested was January 9. Do you really think issuing vague threats against me is going to intimidate me? I want an answer. KazakhPol 23:47, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. I see now. It's alright for you and AS to say I cant speak English, but when I say it its not okay. It's alright for you to remove references without explanation, and thats not vandalism. It's alright for AS to alter my comments, post copyvios, and makeup quotes. Nevermind that the last time I did a reversion that anyone contested was January 8. KazakhPol 23:51, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

You may not have edited the main Hizb ut-Tahrir website since 9th Jan, (which is only a few days ago), but you have reverted my corrections of your unreferenced or incredibly referenced allegations of terrorism against HT on:

or you have removed directly pasted quotes of mine in these articles, without discussion, despite my attempts at discussion, and have accused me of faking quotes, when they exist in plain english in the referenced article. In reality your allegation of FIS (Islamic Salvation Front) being on the state department list of terrorist groups appears fake, and then when proven, you tried to 'hood wink' the issue by talking of a so called military faction of FIS on the state departments list, which also appeared to be faked, because it doesn't exist either. The documents you reference to prove your points; don't at all prove your points, and in fact got used against you. There must be a wiki policy on users who repeatedly claim references that clearly don't actually exist SV??? Aaliyah Stevens 11:57, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Now that AS is accusing me of libelling someone in an article I did not even write, it seems that talking to either of you about anything has exhausted its usefulness. You both bore me with your endless pseudo-outrage. Oh, and it now appears that AS either is using sockpuppets or has a great admirer. See Special:Contributions/193.115.70.42. 'Cheers', KazakhPol 18:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry my computer didn't automatically sign me in-big deal, sockpuppet? NO. You may not have originally written the article on makbool javaid but you kept restoring the libelous version. KP now keeps edit warring and adding HT is a terrorist organisation in the above articles.Aaliyah Stevens 21:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] David Icke

Sorry, i dont know how to use user talk so i hope this is the right way to respond to a message. The reference you used is pathetic. If you only need to add a reference to biased opinions then we can all just write our opinions on other websites and use those as references in articles. David Icke is far from anti semetic and if you actually listened to what he says it goes beyond our little worldly religions. I wont bother arguing with you because you are obviously a facist moderator.

[edit] hi

I have replied on my talk page. Best regards, — Nearly Headless Nick 10:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Stalking"

Actually, Slim, I only responded to your 3RR post because your summary of events that I was peripherally involved in (re: the Israeli Apartheid page) didn't strike me as accurate. This hardly constitutes "stalking". As a general rule, people shouldn't threaten vexacious complaints to silence criticism. CJCurrie 14:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edit warring

You've made 3 reverts in 24 hours at Folke Bernadotte. I know that you are an experienced editor and you know that edit warring is unacceptable. It fosters bad feelings and prevents proper resolution. You ought to be using dispute resolution like mediation when in a conflict, not aggressively edit warring. Dmcdevit·t 17:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I just wanted to let you know that it was not appropriate for you to make a comment regarding Mackan79's block considering that you were just as guilty. MetsFan76 23:03, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User box 45 000e

Just FYI - I've reversed your change with regards to the comma, as all of the edit-count boxes use spaces instead. If you're interested, there was a discussion at Template talk:User 3 500e with regards to this matter. (Nice colour, BTW.) Cheers! --Ckatzchatspy 21:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Standards aside, I'll try to write some code so that you (and others who might want it) can have the boxes display a comma. I'll let you know how it turns out. Cheers! --Ckatzchatspy 22:27, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, try this out if you like: {{Template:User 45 000e/test|comma}}. It will display the 45 000 edit count box with comma formatting. (The default, {{Template:User 45 000e/test}}, creates the existing ISO format box.) I've put it as a "test" template for now, to see how it works. If there are no problems, I'll extend the coding to all of the boxes. (Actually, any text after the pipe character will trigger the comma, while leaving it blank will go with the default. I wanted to create something that will ensure that users who prefer a comma can select it, without requiring existing users to make a change in order to keep what they already have.) Let me know what you think. --Ckatzchatspy 18:56, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dilpazier Aslam

I would think you have enough on your plate to deal with as it is, considering the number of users who are angry with you over your edits to Anti-Judaism, but if you really wish to report me, I will not try to convince you otherwise. I think you may be interested in voting on the AFD for Dilpazier Aslam. I would be curious to see which way you vote. I am also curious as to what you are reporting me for but I guess time will tell. KazakhPol 22:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Makbool Javaid

I have listed Makbool Javaid for deletion. I do not see notability. Accusing me of disruption is not very nice. Cheers, KazakhPol 22:55, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mackan

I tried to direct this to you on Dmcdevit's talk page, but I think it got lost in the threaded comments:

  • Look, I am not going to argue the block was unfair, but he seems willing to come back to the discussion on the talk page, and talk without reverting. I think it's possible to make progress by talking. But it's a problem that a primary editor is missing. Would you be willing to appeal to Dmcdevit for a reduction of Mackan's block to 24 or 36hr, so that we could resume discussion with him included?

I know there is bad blood, and would understand if you disregarded this. On the other hand, I see more willingness to discuss now then before, and Mackan will be part of the discussion. 3 full days seems long to wait for a missing participant. No negative reflection if you disagree. Jd2718 23:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. I'm going to disappear for a day. When you get something (from the publisher, or somewhere else) would you mind alerting me? Thanks Jd2718 23:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Kitsune

I've replied to your message on my talk page. Shimeru 06:41, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gavin the Chosen

Not clear if you're accepting comments - but you did invite questions on this one User:Gavin the Chosen - he has other non-functioning accounts, and the userpage seems to say he suffers from adhd. Can you supply a link on my talk that helps to explain this? Thanks.--Shtove 01:54, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I was reminiscing on my first (anonymous) WP edit, about 18 months ago, and found that, unknown to me, this user had supported the edit - not a good recommendation! A few administrators got to work on the edit instantly, and the Chosen one engaged them in a firefight for an hour after I'd logged off. Anyway, thanks again, and for your work on WP.--Shtove 18:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User KazakhPol again

He now seems to be trying to change Wikipedia guides to suite his "call everyone terrorist" agenda, see: Wikipedia:Words_to_avoid Aaliyah Stevens 09:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Baby seal

Just to let you know, due to unforseen logistical difficulties, including what I can only describe as a redonkulous level of security at the New England Aquarium, I have been unable to carry out my earlier threat of clubbing a baby seal to death while repeatedly and loudly cursing your screen name.[2] No doubt you consider this far out of character for me, but I have decided to try a different tack. In exchange for toning down you rhetorical dragging-my-name-though-the-sludge everytime we have a disagreement, I will, next time my cat has a litter, gladly Fed-ex you one (1) kitten. And if you are extra nice, I may even poke air holes in the box. Whadaya say? -- Kendrick7talk 00:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Martin Luther content rich info box

Are we back to an "old" info box for a reason? This was discussed (argued) at length on the article's talk page. Only one user spoke up there as not wanting it, and it was not you ... I'm so confused. Thanks for your reply. Keesiewonder 20:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Looks a lot better to me this way. I wish the picture could be larger. Thank you Slim. Anyway to make the picture larger in a picture box like this? Justas Jonas 01:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

This may have been an unintentional edit on Slim's part, Justas. I believe she's focused on textual content (and that, before your several edits this evening) and very well may have completely missed the fact that the larger infobox has its merits. I am focused on some standard content in the info box, per nearly all other FA articles on WP. You were in the ultra minority on this when it was discussed on the talk page. And Slim did not participate in that. So ... this may not be as done a deal as you implying. Keesiewonder talk 01:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it looks stupid, but I can live with it. Just make the picture larger. That's the whole point anyway, not to toss a whole lot of information into it that is easily available in the article. Plus, Slim is right, it creates a mess with useless whitespace because it is so long. Why are you being so silly in insisting it must be as long as *you* want it? Slim's edits were great. Looks so much better. Justas Jonas 01:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merging Religious Antisemitism with Anti-Judaism

Hi, just curious to get your take on re-merging Religious Antisemitism with Anti-Judaism, but under the title of Anti-Judaism. The issue is being discussed on Talk:Religious antisemitism currently. Thanks, Mackan79 22:06, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Omura Arb

Hello; please note that I was careful not to include personal details. I prepared this version especially. Have you deleted what I posted? OK, I will prepare an even blanker version and repost.Richardmalter 07:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello; yes, I do want to publish this - but only because it contains Dr Omura's statements about the current WP version specifically and the WP:OR defamatory suggestions made about him in it and his specific comments about them - which I want to have published so that these current and future editors can refer to them. I do not want to make Ghenigiz Rat's details public (ie this is not my aim). (I do not expect the current two parties to take much notice, it is quite clear to me and anyone that looks twice at it that they want to defame him deliberately). I will email you a version to see if you approve that it maintains GhengizRat's privacy. I have already emailed the original statement with full details about GhenigizRat's real life activities and 'disagreements' - to put it very mildly, with Dr Omura to ArbCom. But also, I still want to publish the blanked out sections because how else are others in the Arb process able to assess matters.Richardmalter 09:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have emailed you a version for your approval. It certainly has gone too far - with real world harm being done - personal and professional!! I hope that is really clear. I cannot comprehend how the WP is going along with this.

I have sent you another version by email.Richardmalter 21:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where is Archive?

Where do I find the archives for this talk page? --Seejyb 11:08, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Apology

I feel I have behaved very immaturely towards you. This has been through no fault on your part, but due to my own personal obsessions. I got very upset that the synthesis policy was not understood, and that people actually convinced me that I was wrong, when in fact I fully supported your interpretation. My current experience on wikipedia has been 99% pleasant, and the only frustration is that many editors have not understood the policy, but this of course is not your fault. I really hope you will accept my apology! --Merzul 18:41, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you accepted my apology. And don't worry, this incident has not made Wikipedia any less addictive ;) --Merzul 01:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Adminship...

I am going to e-mail you. I'm just working out my clever plan how best to go about things... Marskell 22:25, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Aminz

Please be informed that a request for comments has been started. Beit Or 21:00, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] who's right is it ?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/816091.html Zeq 09:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My RfA

Thanks for your support in my RfA, and your thoughtful comments. I've felt it best to withdraw on this occasion and think about the good advice I received. Thanks again, Jakew 20:24, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image:PAelegy.jpg...

...which you uploaded, has been tagged as replaceable. Thank you. - Tragic Baboon (banana receptacle) 02:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request

May I email you? I'd like to ask for your opinion about something. Thanks, Jakew 12:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] FAC discussion that might interest you

You might want to weigh in on this discussion. I did quote you when I began the discussion. Jeffpw 13:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Zionism

Please intervene here. User:Abenyosef continues to defy consensus, and to revert the article. I believe he is in violation of 3rr. Thanks.--Meshulam 18:01, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi there, I've reverted him. --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 18:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] blocked & protected

Re: [3], I'm not exactly convinced. The edit 2 minutes before was to remove an "old" barnstar from Ptmccain and the previous edits, done a couple weeks prior, were to the ML article. But, I see that the Ptmccain user page is now protected. I have all related usernames and user articles in my watchlist and will speak up if and when I think something's happening again. Keesiewonder talk 23:07, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Omura

Hello, I am officially asking you as an Admin in line with BLP to remove content from the Omura article immediately viz Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion .

The article clearly violates:

No original research

Unsourced or poorly sourced controversial (negative, positive, or just highly questionable) material about living persons should be removed immediately

The responsibility for justifying controversial claims in Wikipedia, of all kinds, but especially for living people's bios, rests firmly on the shoulders of the person making the claim.

When information supplied by the subject conflicts with unsourced statements in the article, the unsourced statements should be removed.

Category names do not carry disclaimers or modifiers, so the case for the category must be made clear in the article text. The article must state the facts that result in the use of the category tag and these facts must be sourced.

Richardmalter 08:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


Hi, thanks for the quick response. This section needs removing: [4]. The reason is that it is WP:OR to strongly suggest that Dr Omura has dishnoestly affiliated himself to Columbia University, using honest mistakes in other websites that attribute that he is 'of' or 'from' Columbiua University (which is the problem with the idea of third-party reporting BTW). Dr Omura has stated clearly that this is an absolutely false suggestion that has no basis in fact. See Concerning the article’s claim that I have implied that I am affiliated with Columbia University: that is absolutely false. here [5]; furthermore it is deliberately intended by GhengizRat to be malicious by using WP as a tool to defame Dr Omura and make it difficult for Dr Omura to continue with his Symposiums at Columbia University as a simple renter of space (you have read the statement about GhengizRat and his real world malicious actions). Moreover, this statement has already done and continues this minute to do real life harm to a living person confirmed as fact by Dr Omura in his statement when he relates the response of Columbia Uni