freenode #wikipedia

2008-05-19 11:10 * nsh stills wants some
2008-05-19 11:11 < quanticle> nsh: Yeah. You better hope your calf muscles are up to the task of holding your toes off the ground.
2008-05-19 11:11 < nsh> if they won't they'll soon have to be
2008-05-19 11:12 * nsh used to do artistic skating in a previous life
2008-05-19 11:12 < quanticle> nsh: Ice skating?
2008-05-19 11:12 < Lycurgus> calves are very strong muscles. In weight work there's no other I know that can move as much.
2008-05-19 11:12 < nsh> some, but mostly on wheels
2008-05-19 11:12 < nsh> not a lot of ice-rinks in britain
2008-05-19 11:12 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Really? Quads are stronger, I think.
2008-05-19 11:13 < Lycurgus> not in my experience
2008-05-19 11:14 < quanticle> Lycurgus: There's no way the calf muscles (the ones below the knee) are stronger than the quads (the ones above the knee).
2008-05-19 11:14 < Lycurgus> you can usually do as much as twice your best squat weight in standing calf raises
2008-05-19 11:14 < Lycurgus> "quad" is a bundle of different muscles
2008-05-19 11:14 < Lycurgus> "calv" is one big one
2008-05-19 11:15 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Oh. In that case I'm properly referring to one's hamstrings...
2008-05-19 11:15 < Lycurgus> bicep femoris or hamstring is on the other side of the leg from quads
2008-05-19 11:16 < Darth_Oompa> Hello.
2008-05-19 11:16 < Lycurgus> yello DO
2008-05-19 11:17 < Darth_Oompa> Hello.
2008-05-19 11:17 < Darth_Oompa> Ok, I'm going to try something.
2008-05-19 11:19 < ImpStarDestroyer> Ok, fingers crossed...
2008-05-19 11:19 < ImpStarDestroyer> Yes!
2008-05-19 11:26 < quanticle> Heh. Japan is losing engineers too. It seems like this is a persistent problem among all nations - once you're securely in the First World, no one wants to study engineering anymore.
2008-05-19 11:26 < quanticle> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/17/business/worldbusiness/17engineers.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp&oref=slogin
2008-05-19 11:33 < kim_> quanticle, <shrug> more work for us
2008-05-19 11:34 < ImpStarDestroyer> Heh.
2008-05-19 11:37 < ImpStarDestroyer> How often do you think Wikipedia's vandalised?
2008-05-19 11:38 < Broooooooce> about 4 times per second.
2008-05-19 11:38 < ImpStarDestroyer> Oh.
2008-05-19 11:38 < anon32> over nine thousand times?
2008-05-19 11:38 < Broooooooce> anon: exactly
2008-05-19 11:39 < ImpStarDestroyer> 4 per second? We're doomed already.
2008-05-19 11:39 < The359> not enough?
2008-05-19 11:39 < Broooooooce> I wouldn't say so.
2008-05-19 11:39 < Broooooooce> I think a bigger problem ... actually, I don't even want to say what I think a bigger problem is out loud
2008-05-19 11:40 < Broooooooce> Suffice to say that certain editors and administrators seem more concerned with their personal status and pov than the quality of the encyclopedia, that and users who usually just revert rather than enhance.
2008-05-19 11:41 < ImpStarDestroyer> The majority of my edits are reverts.
2008-05-19 11:41 < Broooooooce> Oversensitivity and the misconception that wikipedia is myspace hurt us more than vandals.
2008-05-19 11:41 < Broooooooce> imho
2008-05-19 11:41 < ImpStarDestroyer> "Us?"
2008-05-19 11:41 < Broooooooce> us as in wikipedia
2008-05-19 11:42 < Broooooooce> and why do you have so many reverts, do you patrol RC often or something?
2008-05-19 11:42 < ImpStarDestroyer> Yup.
2008-05-19 11:42 < Broooooooce> because policing vandalism offers a valid reason for reverts outnumbering additions to content
2008-05-19 11:42 < Broooooooce> again imho
2008-05-19 11:42 < ImpStarDestroyer> I'm looking at it right now.
2008-05-19 11:45 < ImpStarDestroyer> People make useful edits, and they're welcome to it. But how don't you know that a vandalised page is being watched by primary school children?
2008-05-19 11:45 < Broooooooce> ?
2008-05-19 11:45 < ImpStarDestroyer> "Mrs Johnson, it says 'boobies' here."
2008-05-19 11:46 < ImpStarDestroyer> IT lessons.
2008-05-19 11:47 < Broooooooce> Well, this may seem a bit insensitive, but I really don't care--wikipedia is not censored. They could look up boobies if they needed more information. And I think you've misunderstood me, I don't think reverting vandalism isn't a valuable contribution.
2008-05-19 11:47 < Broooooooce> so I'm not sure what your getting at.
2008-05-19 11:47 < Broooooooce> "because policing vandalism offers a valid reason for reverts outnumbering additions to content"
2008-05-19 11:47 < ImpStarDestroyer> We all have our opinions.
2008-05-19 11:47 < Broooooooce> Yeah, and I don't think ours are different.
2008-05-19 11:49 < quanticle> Frankly, given the size of Wikipedia as a target, I don't think its vanadlized nearly as much as you'd expect. Of course that could be because a lot of vandalism is automatically bot-reverted.
2008-05-19 11:49 < Broooooooce> Truly
2008-05-19 11:49 < Broooooooce> I mean, it's rather futile to vandalize WP anyways
2008-05-19 11:49 < ImpStarDestroyer> Still.
2008-05-19 11:49 < Broooooooce> The architecture of the software makes tracking such things rather easy
2008-05-19 11:50 < ImpStarDestroyer> Even auto bots don't clean out all the vandalism.
2008-05-19 11:50 < Broooooooce> of course not
2008-05-19 11:50 < quanticle> Broooooooce: Well, perhaps not. A temporary change might las long enough for you to cite it in an argument.
2008-05-19 11:50 < Broooooooce> Quanticle: true
2008-05-19 11:50 < ImpStarDestroyer> An argument with an idiot...
2008-05-19 11:50 < Broooooooce> but, that's the nature of the beast.
2008-05-19 11:51 < Broooooooce> My original point is that I am rather turned off by people who are more concerned with their social status in the perceived heirarchy than they are with contributing useful content.
2008-05-19 11:51 < Broooooooce> just like these butthurt editors who can't stand the idea of an ED article
2008-05-19 11:52 < Broooooooce> that's what I mean to say.
2008-05-19 11:52 < ImpStarDestroyer> Probably the most annoying vandal is the one that used to make useful contribs, and has a disagreement with someone, and then goes on a vandalising spree.
2008-05-19 11:52 < Broooooooce> ISD: I can see that
2008-05-19 11:52 < Broooooooce> a vandal with knowledge is much scarier than your average junior high student inserting dongs into his school's article
2008-05-19 11:53 < quanticle> ImpStarDestroyer: There's a lot of idiots on the Internet. Also, an edit might not be caught as vandalism if its not instantly recognizable as vandalism. For example, I could add [[Snow Crash]] to [[List of cyberpunk works]], and I wouldn't obviously be wrong.
2008-05-19 11:53 < ImpStarDestroyer> I just ignore the ones I'm not sure about.
2008-05-19 11:53 < Broooooooce> ISD: A good practice.
2008-05-19 11:54 < Broooooooce> too many people are too confident in their choices, and the shoot first mentality has been the death of some true contributions most assuredly
2008-05-19 11:54 < ImpStarDestroyer> Broooooooce: Very scary.
2008-05-19 11:54 < Broooooooce> all that said, I am rather enamored with wikipedia even after having been around for a little while
2008-05-19 11:55 < ImpStarDestroyer> I know another scary thing. If a trustworthy admin turns out to be a vandal, then bans all the other buraeus and admins.
2008-05-19 11:55 < Broooooooce> Vandalism or no, it's still the greatest repository of human knowledge on the planet.
2008-05-19 11:55 < ImpStarDestroyer> The whole Wiki would be in a stranglehold.
2008-05-19 11:56 < Broooooooce> Until Jimbo or someone banned that person and any admin sockpuppets it may have manged to create
2008-05-19 11:56 < quanticle> ImpStarDestroyer: Fortunately, the admin community today is large enough to limit the damage any single rogue admin could do.
2008-05-19 11:56 < Broooooooce> and then there'd be a few days/hours of reverting, and all would be well again
2008-05-19 11:56 < ImpStarDestroyer> Ok...
2008-05-19 11:56 < Broooooooce> I'd say, he'd have to be awfully fast
2008-05-19 11:56 < Broooooooce> make a script or something
2008-05-19 11:56 < ImpStarDestroyer> You can hold several internet programs on your comp.
2008-05-19 11:57 < quanticle> ImpStarDestroyer: Last I checked there were nearly a thousand admins. Given the size of that community, it'd hard for a single admin to ban *all* other admins.
2008-05-19 11:57 < Broooooooce> ISD: still limited by bandwidth.
2008-05-19 11:57 < ImpStarDestroyer> What if there were several admins, all with many computers?
2008-05-19 11:57 < ImpStarDestroyer> Though, that's very far-fetched.
2008-05-19 11:57 < Broooooooce> and a script, sure, possible. but probable, no. and long lasting damage? definitely not
2008-05-19 11:58 < Broooooooce> In the end, I think conflicts and situations which test wikipedia only make it stronger.
2008-05-19 11:58 < Broooooooce> let me amend that last statement
2008-05-19 11:58 < Broooooooce> non-petty conflicts.
2008-05-19 11:58 < quanticle> ImpStarDestroyer: That implies a conspiracy. Conspiracies, especially those limited exlusively to the Internet are extraordinarily difficult to keep secret for an extended period of time. Also, he'd have to subvert a large portion of the admin community.
2008-05-19 11:59 < quanticle> I mean, he'd have to have a conspiracy of hundreds...
2008-05-19 11:59 < ImpStarDestroyer> I don't know... kepping in touch in real life?
2008-05-19 12:00 < ImpStarDestroyer> *keeping
2008-05-19 12:00 < Broooooooce> at the end of the day, worst case scenario is that WP is restored from backup and then edited offline to remove access of offending admins, and if they had admins who were involved in the plan not yet discovered, when the attempt was made again, do it again.
2008-05-19 12:00 < Broooooooce> no way to take it down.
2008-05-19 12:02 < ImpStarDestroyer> I always think of Wikipedia as a huge office block; with lots of people assigned different jobs.
2008-05-19 12:03 < Broooooooce> I guess my little cubicle is in part of the low importance arkansas article creation divison, heh.
2008-05-19 12:04 < ImpStarDestroyer> I think an elevator chase in a tall skyscraper would be fun.
2008-05-19 12:04 < Species8472> how do I upload a new version for an image ?
2008-05-19 12:04 < Species8472> being this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homeschool_Legality-World.svg
2008-05-19 12:04 < Broooooooce> Is it on wikimedia commons?
2008-05-19 12:05 < Broooooooce> yes
2008-05-19 12:05 < Broooooooce> log in to commons, go to the photos page, click the link that says upload a new version of the file, make sure to include license information
2008-05-19 12:05 < Broooooooce> I believe.
2008-05-19 12:05 < Species8472> oh right perhaps its not showing the options because im not logged in
2008-05-19 12:06 < Broooooooce> ;)
2008-05-19 12:09 < Species8472> hmm it doesnt seem to provide me with a proper licdensing option
2008-05-19 12:09 < Species8472> It's in the public domain and done so by the author
2008-05-19 12:09 < Species8472> "I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain."
2008-05-19 12:09 < Species8472> I basically only colored some extra countries, does that make me the copyright holder?
2008-05-19 12:10 < Broooooooce> if you want to be
2008-05-19 12:10 < Broooooooce> but I'd just keep it public domain
2008-05-19 12:10 < Broooooooce> so there IS no copyright holder
2008-05-19 12:10 < Species8472> yes but it only lists the option: "Public domain I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide."
2008-05-19 12:10 < Broooooooce> then use that
2008-05-19 12:10 < mattbuck> i think you may beed {{PD-author|{{w|User:Zginder
2008-05-19 12:10 < Broooooooce> that's fine
2008-05-19 12:11 < mattbuck> {{PD-author|{{w|User:Zginder|Zginder}}}} even
2008-05-19 12:11 < Species8472> or should I just not select something under licensing dropdown box?
2008-05-19 12:11 < Broooooooce> no no
2008-05-19 12:11 < Broooooooce> always select something or it will be nuked
2008-05-19 12:12 < Species8472> -> {{PD-author|{{w|User:Zginder|Zginder}}}} <- this one?
2008-05-19 12:12 < mattbuck> sorry, wait, it has a special thing for wikimedia ones
2008-05-19 12:12 < mattbuck> {{PD-user-w|en|wikipedia|Zginder}}
2008-05-19 12:12 < mattbuck> that will work fine
2008-05-19 12:14 < Species8472> thanks both
2008-05-19 12:15 < Broooooooce> netime
2008-05-19 12:15 < mattbuck> np
2008-05-19 12:22 < Species8472> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Homeschool_Legality-World.svg < = seems like i could have skilled the license part
2008-05-19 12:23 < Broooooooce> skipped you mean?
2008-05-19 12:23 < mattbuck> ah, of course, since it's not a new upload it doesn't add the stuff you say
2008-05-19 12:23 < bbot> No, skilled.
2008-05-19 12:23 < mattbuck> i'll go fix it
2008-05-19 12:23 < bbot> Skill it like a polaroid picture!
2008-05-19 12:23 < Broooooooce> ha
2008-05-19 12:45 < Filll> hey guys
2008-05-19 12:45 < Filll> can anyone tell me where I can find an oversighter?
2008-05-19 12:47 < Filll> hello?
2008-05-19 12:47 < Filll> is anyone awake?
2008-05-19 12:47 < Ceogar> Yes
2008-05-19 12:47 < Filll> anyone know where I can find an oversighter?
2008-05-19 12:48 < staura> wiki
2008-05-19 13:03 * Working_Cat is well fed
2008-05-19 13:03 < mattbuck> good
2008-05-19 13:03 < mattbuck> is your fur all shiny too?
2008-05-19 13:05 < Working_Cat> its rich soft and shiny, yes
2008-05-19 13:07 * Working_Cat tickles quantickle
2008-05-19 13:07 < Working_Cat> GBTW
2008-05-19 13:08 < Working_Cat> sup
2008-05-19 13:08 < mattbuck> good
2008-05-19 13:08 < Working_Cat> quanticle: INFIDEL
2008-05-19 13:11 < Working_Cat> chatkill
2008-05-19 13:15 < Species8472> what do you guys think about the euroeduction.net link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina
2008-05-19 13:15 < Species8472> it basically copies wikipedia
2008-05-19 13:21 < mattbuck> well, wikipedia is fairly free to use, and there are quite a lot of mirrors
2008-05-19 13:21 < mattbuck> but i do doubt the usefulness of a link to a page which says the same thing
2008-05-19 13:32 < Pilotguy> mooftp
2008-05-19 13:37 < gwern> 'A giant study, which surveyed more than 13,000 children, found that using the handsets just two or three times a day was enough to raise the risk of their babies developing hyperactivity and difficulties with conduct, emotions and relationships by the time they reached school age. And it adds that the likelihood is even greater if the children themselves used the phones before the age of seven.'
2008-05-19 13:37 < gwern> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-wellbeing/health-news/warning-using-a-mobile-phone-while-pregnant-can-seriously-damage-your-baby-830352.html
2008-05-19 13:38 < gwern> 'The research – at the universities of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) and Aarhus, Denmark – is to be published in the July issue of the journal Epidemiology and will carry particular weight because one of its authors has been sceptical that mobile phones pose a risk to health.'
2008-05-19 13:38 < gwern> 'They add that there might be other possible explanations that they did not examine – such as that mothers who used the phones frequently might pay less attention to their children – and stress that the results "should be interpreted with caution" and checked by further studies. But they conclude that "if they are real they would have major public health implications".'
2008-05-19 13:45 < Species8472> mattbuck: Yeah well I was not opting for them to be sued, just for the link to be removed - should have added that :)
2008-05-19 13:45 < mattbuck> lol
2008-05-19 13:45 < mattbuck> be bold
2008-05-19 13:46 < mattbuck> Hannah Adele O'Riley sent a request using What kind of a lesbian you are: humm... should i add this facebook app to see what sort of lesbian I am? (presumably a very bad one, what with the penis and all...)
2008-05-19 13:50 < gwern> mattbuck: no, you're a raging lesbian trapped in a man's body
2008-05-19 13:51 < `On> Who is the lamer that placed this ban on me? On*!*@*.bb.online.no and this one: *!*@ti400720a081-1446.bb.online.no ? bumm13 ?
2008-05-19 13:51 < `On> An op on wikipedia? lol
2008-05-19 13:51 < `On> Great competence....
2008-05-19 13:51 < `On> :)
2008-05-19 13:52 < `On> bumm13 change nick to lamer123
2008-05-19 13:52 < `On> I am adding the entire log of you being pathetic next to the documentation of the abusing admin.
2008-05-19 13:53 < mattbuck> ohh, it requires me to invite 15 friends. i don't want 15 friends thinking i care what sort of lesbian i am. unfortunately this means i shall never know
2008-05-19 13:53 < `On> You and him will make headlines on all the 40 social links network WebAPP has. This war was decleared by you and Hu12, and youw ill enjoy it.
2008-05-19 13:53 < gwern> you're back again, `On
2008-05-19 13:53 < gwern> good grief
2008-05-19 13:53 < gwern> go away, we don't want to hear it
2008-05-19 13:54 < `On> No one ever called our GPL free group for Spammers
2008-05-19 13:54 < `On> before you two wanker decided too.
2008-05-19 13:54 < `On> /ignore `On
2008-05-19 13:54 < `On> and go sit in the corner lamer.
2008-05-19 13:55 < `On> I for one take WP admins abuse seriously.
2008-05-19 13:55 < gwern> `On: oh, well as long as you aren't going to sue us in a court of law
2008-05-19 13:55 < gwern> IN TRENTON NEW JERSEY
2008-05-19 13:55 < Working_Cat> gwern: should i?
2008-05-19 13:55 < `On> When Hu12 falsifies logs and you ban me for complaining it makes you nothing but an asshole
2008-05-19 13:55 < `On> This story doesn't end here.
2008-05-19 13:55 < gwern> go go ops
2008-05-19 13:56 < `On> He published my real name with these lies on WP.
2008-05-19 13:56 < Working_Cat> AWW COME ON
2008-05-19 13:56 < mattbuck> chanserv sucks
2008-05-19 13:56 < mattbuck> takes all the fun out of kickbanning
2008-05-19 13:56 < gwern> Working_Cat: definitely. unless his ban was intended to expire so soon
2008-05-19 13:56 < Working_Cat> damn you bumm13
2008-05-19 13:56 < bumm13> he's on autorem, anyway
2008-05-19 13:56 < Working_Cat> i was going to snare him :(
2008-05-19 13:56 < gwern> no, we're dicks - we screw assholes. didn't you watch _Team America_?
2008-05-19 13:56 * Working_Cat goes back to work
2008-05-19 13:57 < bumm13> but since I didn't put it in 100% correctly, he evaded it
2008-05-19 13:58 < Working_Cat> phail
2008-05-19 13:58 < Dodde> if I use a template with the syntax {{template-name|[[link with brackets]]}}, is there a way in the template code to extract "link with brackets" withough the brackets, so it can use create "[[link with brackets#Anchor|link with brackets]]" from this instead?
2008-05-19 13:58 < bumm13> it's fixed now
2008-05-19 13:59 < bumm13> this guy is a damn lunatic :-p
2008-05-19 14:00 < quanticle> Bye bye working_cat
2008-05-19 14:00 < O`n> hi lamer
2008-05-19 14:00 < Working_Cat> so... anyone who has "on" in his nick, and is from bb.online.no ... will get kicked?
2008-05-19 14:00 < O`n> you dont even know how to ban.
2008-05-19 14:01 < bumm13> I guess because of one loser's behavior, we'll have to ban all of bb.online.no ;p
2008-05-19 14:01 < Working_Cat> someone make that more general.
2008-05-19 14:01 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Ban him too.
2008-05-19 14:01 < Working_Cat> did
2008-05-19 14:01 < Working_Cat> \o/ first kick!
2008-05-19 14:01 < bumm13> he did
2008-05-19 14:02 < Dendodge> :)
2008-05-19 14:02 < quanticle> Heh.
2008-05-19 14:02 < Broooooooce> what'd he do?
2008-05-19 14:02 < Dendodge> Yeah, what'd he do?
2008-05-19 14:02 < Broooooooce> I tried to scroll up, but it was all ding ding ding and tl;dr
2008-05-19 14:02 < Working_Cat> Broooooooce: was being nosey
2008-05-19 14:02 * quanticle paints a troll sillouette on Working_Cat
2008-05-19 14:02 < Working_Cat> wtf
2008-05-19 14:02 < Working_Cat> what did i do
2008-05-19 14:02 < bumm13> he's banned for being disruptive (he's a vandal/sockpuppeteer on WP)
2008-05-19 14:03 < quanticle> Working_Cat: You shot down a troll.
2008-05-19 14:03 < Pilotguy> ./whois Working_Cat
2008-05-19 14:03 < Working_Cat> so... whats a troll sillouette
2008-05-19 14:03 < Cream> hey Pilotguy <3
2008-05-19 14:03 < Cream> hi Working_Cat <3
2008-05-19 14:03 < Cream> hi bumm13 <3
2008-05-19 14:03 < Pilotguy> hello love
2008-05-19 14:03 < bumm13> hi
2008-05-19 14:03 < Working_Cat> irs Silhouette btw
2008-05-19 14:04 < Working_Cat> its
2008-05-19 14:04 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Ah. Fair point.
2008-05-19 14:04 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Anyway, you've got one. Another 4 and you'll make ace!
2008-05-19 14:04 < Working_Cat> hmmm im not feeling sick anymore
2008-05-19 14:04 < Working_Cat> who says violence isnt the answer
2008-05-19 14:04 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Its obviously because you're pumped from making your first kill.
2008-05-19 14:05 < bumm13> heh
2008-05-19 14:05 < Working_Cat> im not all that pumped
2008-05-19 14:05 < quanticle> Working_Cat: ORLY?
2008-05-19 14:05 * quanticle pumps up Working_Cat
2008-05-19 14:05 < quanticle> Are you pumped now?
2008-05-19 14:05 < Cream> hi quanticle <3
2008-05-19 14:05 * Rinn 's mind never gets out of the gutter
2008-05-19 14:05 < quanticle> Hello Looooooooong_Cat
2008-05-19 14:05 < Cream> hi Rinn
2008-05-19 14:05 < Working_Cat> i'll be pumped when i get around to making that custom command which willl op, put a regexban and deop
2008-05-19 14:06 * Rinn waves
2008-05-19 14:06 * Working_Cat waves Rinn
2008-05-19 14:07 * quanticle waves Working_Cat by the tail
2008-05-19 14:07 * Rinn dies
2008-05-19 14:07 < Working_Cat> 9_9
2008-05-19 14:07 < Working_Cat> quanticle: i got a big whiteboard for that ai stuff
2008-05-19 14:07 < Working_Cat> and its got cool looking graphs on it.
2008-05-19 14:07 < Working_Cat> i'll add a few equations
2008-05-19 14:07 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Are they weighted?
2008-05-19 14:08 < Looooooooong_Cat> trying to make a list of possible meeting places for wikimania
2008-05-19 14:08 < Working_Cat> and let noobs marvel at it :D
2008-05-19 14:08 < quanticle> Looooooooong_Cat: You obviously need a weighted graph
2008-05-19 14:08 < Working_Cat> quanticle: the nodes are.
2008-05-19 14:08 < Working_Cat> edges obviously aint.
2008-05-19 14:08 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Ok. Good enough.
2008-05-19 14:08 < Working_Cat> i need a thicker marker though.
2008-05-19 14:08 < Looooooooong_Cat> quanticle, i'm thinking of it downtown or maybe at one of the Expo 67 relics
2008-05-19 14:08 < Working_Cat> it looks cooler.
2008-05-19 14:09 < quanticle> Looooooooong_Cat: You're thinking of holding it in Canada?
2008-05-19 14:09 < bumm13> Quebec as a happening place is a relic :p
2008-05-19 14:09 < Looooooooong_Cat> quanticle, yup
2008-05-19 14:09 < Working_Cat> lets have it onsite at burning man
2008-05-19 14:09 < bumm13> they were looking up from 1967-1976
2008-05-19 14:09 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Great idea. You bring the psychadelic mushrooms.
2008-05-19 14:09 < Looooooooong_Cat> lol
2008-05-19 14:09 < Working_Cat> you get the acid
2008-05-19 14:09 < On````> hi
2008-05-19 14:09 < quanticle> Oh good lord.
2008-05-19 14:10 < ST47> /nick off````
2008-05-19 14:10 < Working_Cat> i say ban mibbit
2008-05-19 14:10 < bumm13> well, he just revealed his true self, it seems
2008-05-19 14:10 < ST47> I say quiet mibbit
2008-05-19 14:10 * Looooooooong_Cat seconds
2008-05-19 14:10 < Working_Cat> ST47: how to do that?
2008-05-19 14:10 * Looooooooong_Cat has a secret CGI:IRC
2008-05-19 14:10 < ST47> not like that
2008-05-19 14:10 < ST47> like that
2008-05-19 14:10 < Working_Cat> ST47: quick and dirty. i let others mop up :)
2008-05-19 14:10 < ST47> ohshit
2008-05-19 14:11 < ST47> how did I killed bot?
2008-05-19 14:11 < Looooooooong_Cat> ST47, why not point it to #wikimedia-ops
2008-05-19 14:11 < Working_Cat> ST47: what happ
2008-05-19 14:11 < Looooooooong_Cat> dunno
2008-05-19 14:11 < morwen> hi
2008-05-19 14:11 < Looooooooong_Cat> 6 times the bot crashed
2008-05-19 14:11 < bumm13> no, please don't
2008-05-19 14:11 < ST47> There
2008-05-19 14:11 < ST47> leave it for a few hours
2008-05-19 14:11 * bumm13 wonders if that really is MONGO
2008-05-19 14:11 < Working_Cat> TOR
2008-05-19 14:11 < quanticle> I say we ought to treat mibbit the same as TOR
2008-05-19 14:11 * Looooooooong_Cat seconds
2008-05-19 14:11 < Working_Cat> heh
2008-05-19 14:12 < bumm13> we should treat all CGI:IRC gateways like Tor
2008-05-19 14:12 * quanticle commends Working_Cat and ST47 on their speedy response.
2008-05-19 14:12 * Working_Cat likes how he made ST47 mop up after him :P
2008-05-19 14:14 < Working_Cat> i still dont have my regex and custom actions sharpened up... so my bans are immediate and messy... work against humans, bots programmed to evade lame bans would blow through them.
2008-05-19 14:14 < quanticle> Yeah, dircbot isn't having a good day, it seems. Its crashing and quitting every channel, it seems.
2008-05-19 14:14 < quanticle> I use "It seems" too much today, it seems.
2008-05-19 14:15 < Working_Cat> it seems, yeah
2008-05-19 14:15 < bumm13> (nope, not User:MONGO)
2008-05-19 14:15 < Rinn> quanticle: So it seems.
2008-05-19 14:15 * bumm13 goes back to appeasing Betacommand's fucking bot
2008-05-19 14:16 < quanticle> Yeah. There goes dircbot again.
2008-05-19 14:16 < bumm13> :x
2008-05-19 14:16 < Working_Cat> i think next time i will ban him.
2008-05-19 14:16 < ST47> don't
2008-05-19 14:17 < quanticle> Working_Cat: o_O
2008-05-19 14:17 < Working_Cat> i'd like if he typed stuff out just to see he cant really talk
2008-05-19 14:17 < Working_Cat> him = *on* , jeez
2008-05-19 14:17 < Pilotguy> Working_Cat: ST47 wants to do it instead
2008-05-19 14:17 < Working_Cat> XD i like how everyone thoguht i meant dircbot
2008-05-19 14:17 < Working_Cat> thought even
2008-05-19 14:18 < Working_Cat> hmmm is it worth it to spend almost 3X the price for an LCD tv?
2008-05-19 14:18 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Well, how big is it?
2008-05-19 14:18 < Working_Cat> i do like their looks... and the fact that they arent jumbo sized
2008-05-19 14:18 < Working_Cat> quanticle: im thinking 26 inches
2008-05-19 14:19 < Working_Cat> 21/22 will do too infact.
2008-05-19 14:19 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Meh. I don't know. I'm pretty sure you can haul a 26" CRT by yourself.
2008-05-19 14:19 < Working_Cat> can != really should
2008-05-19 14:20 < quanticle> Working_Cat: That's true. But, its not like you'll be moving it after you put it down, right?
2008-05-19 14:20 < Working_Cat> i've hauled 29 ones over flights of stairs
2008-05-19 14:20 < ST47> Did wiki just ger really slow for anyone?
2008-05-19 14:20 < Working_Cat> quanticle: the flat slim ones look cooler sitting on that minimalist post modern stand
2008-05-19 14:20 < quanticle> ST47: Not for me.
2008-05-19 14:21 < Working_Cat> ST47: nope
2008-05-19 14:21 < quanticle> Working_Cat: I guess so, but cheap LCDs suck.
2008-05-19 14:21 * Working_Cat kicks dircbot
2008-05-19 14:21 < quanticle> Dammit, dircbot! Get your act together here.
2008-05-19 14:22 * quanticle hits dircbot with a hammer
2008-05-19 14:22 < Working_Cat> quanticle: 500-600 isnt exactly cheap as far as my wallet goes :S
2008-05-19 14:22 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Get a CRT. They don't suck that much.
2008-05-19 14:22 < Working_Cat> well the thing is, if i get a crt... i could get it next month... an LCD on other hand would have to wait 2-3 months
2008-05-19 14:22 < Working_Cat> yeah, i'll just look for a nice looking crt
2008-05-19 14:24 < Working_Cat> and next month = hardly 2 weeks \o/
2008-05-19 14:24 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Also, do you get cable or satellite?
2008-05-19 14:25 < Working_Cat> cable
2008-05-19 14:25 < Working_Cat> and that would make a difference how?
2008-05-19 14:25 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Then see if you can pick up one without a digital tuner. Those'll be *super* cheap.
2008-05-19 14:26 < quanticle> If you've got cable, you won't be affected by the 2009 transition for OTA television transmissions.
2008-05-19 14:26 < Working_Cat> but arent all tvs supposed to go digital soon?
2008-05-19 14:26 < Working_Cat> oh ok
2008-05-19 14:26 < Working_Cat> but then, i might get sattellite in a cpl years.
2008-05-19 14:26 < Working_Cat> im not rich enough to buy cheap :S
2008-05-19 14:26 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Satellite isn't affected either.
2008-05-19 14:27 < Working_Cat> i mean, the digital tuner might come on handy then
2008-05-19 14:27 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Not really. The satellite box will handle the tuning for you.
2008-05-19 14:28 < Working_Cat> k
2008-05-19 14:28 * quanticle brb
2008-05-19 14:33 * Working_Cat kickbans WBOSITG
2008-05-19 14:33 < gwern> I'd like to get a lcd monitor, but then where would my cat sleep?
2008-05-19 14:33 < WBOSITG> :O
2008-05-19 14:34 < Cat_goes_woof> lol
2008-05-19 14:34 < Working_Cat> gwern: :D
2008-05-19 14:34 < Working_Cat> on your keyboard where else
2008-05-19 14:35 < WBOSITG> lulz
2008-05-19 14:37 < Working_Cat> someone needs to ban dircbot for revolving door
2008-05-19 14:39 < ST47> phil is looking into it
2008-05-19 14:44 < Working_Cat> collins?
2008-05-19 14:45 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Even beter, philkc
2008-05-19 14:45 < quanticle> *Better
2008-05-19 14:49 < quanticle> NP: Love Island by Fatboy Slim
2008-05-19 14:53 < Lubaf> Anyway.
2008-05-19 14:53 < Lubaf> Anybody ever mistakenly allowed a package to be shipped by International Trebochet?
2008-05-19 14:55 < quanticle> Lubaf: Yes. Good thing it was a rock, in my case.
2008-05-19 15:05 < gwern> ooh, new Dresden Codak
2008-05-19 15:05 < gwern> finally
2008-05-19 15:08 < quanticle> gwern: ORLY?
2008-05-19 15:08 * kim_bruning seeks ancient wikipedians
2008-05-19 15:09 < kim_bruning> they're really almost all gone, aren't they?
2008-05-19 15:11 < gwern> quanticle: well, go look for yourself
2008-05-19 15:11 < quanticle> gwern: I did. I was amazed.
2008-05-19 15:11 < gwern> kim_bruning: yep. how ancient is ancient tho, in your reckoning? I date back to '04
2008-05-19 15:12 < kim_bruning> 04 tends to work out
2008-05-19 15:12 < kim_bruning> ish
2008-05-19 15:12 < kim_bruning> I'd prefer 03 or 02 or even 01 :-P
2008-05-19 15:12 < kim_bruning> according to you, is policy descriptive or prescriptive?
2008-05-19 15:12 * kim_bruning kerchecks
2008-05-19 15:13 < kim_bruning> there's an '04 claiming all policy has always been prescriptive, and I need a sanity check for one
2008-05-19 15:13 < kim_bruning> and him told off for two if it turns out I'm sane
2008-05-19 15:13 < gwern> descriptive, except where set by the Foundation or legal reality
2008-05-19 15:13 * kim_bruning is pretty sure I haven't been delusional these past couple of years, but several people seem to claim I am
2008-05-19 15:14 < kim_bruning> *phew*
2008-05-19 15:14 < kim_bruning> alright
2008-05-19 15:14 < gwern> it's always been descriptive, with only a few exceptions
2008-05-19 15:14 < kim_bruning> would BLP count as prescriptive or descriptive?
2008-05-19 15:14 < kim_bruning> and is that just the principles behind it, or did the foundation set the whole thing?
2008-05-19 15:14 < Phoenixwi> kim bruning needing a sanity check? That's absurd, I'm serious...
2008-05-19 15:14 < gwern> I think it's supposed to be both - prescriptive to a degree because living people want to sue
2008-05-19 15:15 < kim_bruning> (I'd be inclined to just look at page history, and note that it was mostly wikipedians who wrote it)
2008-05-19 15:15 < kim_bruning> Ok, then we agree there too
2008-05-19 15:15 < kim_bruning> Phoenixwi, I need a sanity check more than anyone else ;-)
2008-05-19 15:15 < gwern> and descriptivie because people seem to have a silly idea about 'not harming' people, which always seems to boil down to 'let's turn the article into PR fluff!'
2008-05-19 15:15 < Phoenixwi> lol I doubt it
2008-05-19 15:15 < kim_bruning> Phoenixwi, because I'm obviously insane anyway?
2008-05-19 15:16 < Phoenixwi> no lol
2008-05-19 15:16 < gwern> as for who did it? I'm not sure. I *think* what happened was Seigenthaler traumatized everyone, Jimob made noises about trating living people differently, and the cabal (slimvirgin, jzg, etc) jumped to comply
2008-05-19 15:17 < Messedrocker> no
2008-05-19 15:17 < Messedrocker> BLP came as a result of Brandt
2008-05-19 15:17 < Messedrocker> and it was Danny's idea
2008-05-19 15:17 < kim_bruning> gwern, There's 2 cabals
2008-05-19 15:17 < kim_bruning> Messedrocker, Oh fuck. Always danny
2008-05-19 15:17 < kim_bruning> erm, did I just swear?
2008-05-19 15:17 < Messedrocker> Shut the fuck up, you
2008-05-19 15:17 < Phoenixwi> No fucking swearing
2008-05-19 15:17 < kim_bruning> ROTFL
2008-05-19 15:17 * quanticle suspects we are practicing wikikaballah
2008-05-19 15:17 < gwern> shuddash up the fooka, you nogoodniks!
2008-05-19 15:18 * kim_bruning points gwern to msg
2008-05-19 15:18 < kim_bruning> you know, anytime I walk into a disaster zone, danny wool seems to be at the root of it
2008-05-19 15:18 < kim_bruning> gwern, so what happened to the original core cabal?
2008-05-19 15:18 < gwern> kim_bruning: yeah sure, but those are the ones I see the most
2008-05-19 15:18 < Messedrocker> how is BLP a disaster zone?
2008-05-19 15:18 < Messedrocker> it is a zone for responsible research
2008-05-19 15:19 < gwern> Messedrocker: blp gets us into an attitude where things like BADSITES and banning anon page creation sound like a great idea
2008-05-19 15:19 < Messedrocker> it shouldn't have
2008-05-19 15:19 < Messedrocker> but it did because wikipedians are retarded
2008-05-19 15:20 < kim_bruning> the words "should" and "shouldn't" should be banned
2008-05-19 15:20 < kim_bruning> :-P
2008-05-19 15:20 < kim_bruning> so recently I got into a spot of bother
2008-05-19 15:21 < gwern> kim_bruning: oh darn
2008-05-19 15:21 < quanticle> kim_bruning: As long as you're banning should and shouldn't, you should also ban ought and oughtn't.
2008-05-19 15:21 < kim_bruning> quanticle, quite
2008-05-19 15:21 < kim_bruning> also "unilateral"
2008-05-19 15:22 < kim_bruning> and "non-negotiable"
2008-05-19 15:22 < kim_bruning> gwern, is msg working? :-P
2008-05-19 15:22 < quanticle> kim_bruning: You have to be registered to send PMs, I think.
2008-05-19 15:22 < Messedrocker> also, any lame TLA used on Wikipedia
2008-05-19 15:22 < Messedrocker> also, Jimbo
2008-05-19 15:22 < Messedrocker> the last of his powers have been wrested from him
2008-05-19 15:23 < kim_bruning> quanticle, yup, just did that
2008-05-19 15:23 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Heck, forget TLAs, lets ban all wiki-abbreviations. They only scare off n00bs.
2008-05-19 15:23 < gwern> eh. I'll believe that when he orders the devs to do something, and they don't
2008-05-19 15:23 < Messedrocker> quanticle, wikiabbreviations and TLAs are one in the same
2008-05-19 15:23 < kim_bruning> gwern, descriptive again?
2008-05-19 15:23 < kim_bruning> :-)
2008-05-19 15:23 < Messedrocker> No, I think you would all be interested in doing the grunt work for PERSIAM
2008-05-19 15:23 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Not all wikiabbreviations are three letters long.
2008-05-19 15:23 < gwern> yes
2008-05-19 15:23 < gwern> power is as power does
2008-05-19 15:24 < Messedrocker> quanticle, anything longer than three is an Extended TLA
2008-05-19 15:24 < Messedrocker> anything shorter is an Abbreviated TLA
2008-05-19 15:24 < kim_bruning> gwern, ^^;;
2008-05-19 15:26 * quanticle eats kibble
2008-05-19 15:28 * kim_bruning bites nails
2008-05-19 15:29 * quanticle raps kim_bruning across the knuckles
2008-05-19 15:29 < quanticle> Biting nails is a bad habit!
2008-05-19 15:31 < kim_bruning> OUW
2008-05-19 15:31 < kim_bruning> I can still bite them if I'm really worried
2008-05-19 15:31 * kibble is eaten
2008-05-19 15:31 < kim_bruning> also, now it looks like mostly 2004 people are in charge on the wiki on a day to day basis
2008-05-19 15:31 < kim_bruning> hello kibble
2008-05-19 15:31 < kibble> heya
2008-05-19 15:36 * kim_bruning continues to bite my nails
2008-05-19 15:36 < Alkivar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Canopy-AP-Backhaul.jpg <-- NOT PD claiming PD
2008-05-19 15:37 < Alkivar> This is a picture of a Motorola Canopy Access Point system, with a backhaul unit on the bottom. This picture is a photo from the official website, and appears to not be used anymore
2008-05-19 15:37 < Alkivar> and claiming PD Self
2008-05-19 15:37 < Alkivar> so copyvio since 2006!
2008-05-19 15:42 < The359> I see people do that shit all the time, Alkivar
2008-05-19 15:42 < The359> publicity pictures claimed as PD Self
2008-05-19 15:44 * kim_bruning bites nails
2008-05-19 15:44 < The359> why the hell do you keep saying that?
2008-05-19 15:45 < kim_bruning> The359, why do they do it?
2008-05-19 15:45 < kim_bruning> I'm waiting for gwern to proclaim me sane or insane :-P
2008-05-19 15:45 < kim_bruning> (sanitychecking)
2008-05-19 15:47 < bbot> I declare you un-sane.
2008-05-19 15:53 < Rinn> Delicious nail-dirt buildup
2008-05-19 15:55 < The359> Rinn's fucking nuts though
2008-05-19 15:56 < Rinn> Not true! I have no nuts to fuck.
2008-05-19 15:56 < amidaniel> o.o
2008-05-19 15:59 < kim_bruning> bbot, thanks man
2008-05-19 16:00 < bbot> No problem.
2008-05-19 16:00 < gwern> Doctor, doctor, what's wrong with me?
2008-05-19 16:00 < gwern> I think you'
2008-05-19 16:00 < gwern> re crazy!
2008-05-19 16:01 < Rinn> CAN I GET A SECOND OPINION?
2008-05-19 16:01 < gwern> you're also lazy.
2008-05-19 16:01 < gwern> (oohhh dr. zaius!)
2008-05-19 16:02 < kim_bruning> Good
2008-05-19 16:02 < kim_bruning> so I'm crazy?
2008-05-19 16:02 < Messedrocker> yes
2008-05-19 16:03 < gwern> crazy like a fox
2008-05-19 16:03 < kim_bruning> foxes ain't crazy, are they?
2008-05-19 16:03 < kim_bruning> well okay
2008-05-19 16:03 < Messedrocker> kimmer, i'll never forget our 15 minute conversation that caused me to miss much of the proceeding session
2008-05-19 16:03 < geniice> well that should anoy some american patriots
2008-05-19 16:03 < geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_%28submarine%29#Veracity_of_Reports
2008-05-19 16:03 < kim_bruning> Messedrocker, eh?
2008-05-19 16:04 < kim_bruning> Messedrocker, what was that about?
2008-05-19 16:04 < crazybanana> What should wpStarttime and wpEdittime be set to?
2008-05-19 16:05 < Phoenixwi> http://www.64.233.167.99.com
2008-05-19 16:05 < Messedrocker> kim_bruning, it started with Esperanza and ended up being about 9/11 vs. World War II
2008-05-19 16:05 < kim_bruning> Messedrocker, Oh dear ^^;;
2008-05-19 16:05 < crazybanana> Anyone?
2008-05-19 16:05 < Phoenixwi> wtf is htat?
2008-05-19 16:05 < kim_bruning> how did we get there?
2008-05-19 16:05 < kim_bruning> ^^;;
2008-05-19 16:06 < Phoenixwi> I found out google's ip and when you put it in the URl it goes to some chat thing
2008-05-19 16:06 < Phoenixwi> don't follow that link, sorry
2008-05-19 16:07 < crazybanana> Hello?
2008-05-19 16:07 < Phoenixwi> oh wait, http://64.233.167.99 works
2008-05-19 16:07 < The359> I'd think Google would have more than one IP
2008-05-19 16:08 < kim_bruning> genii is also 2004
2008-05-19 16:08 < kim_bruning> all the old folks are 2004 by now
2008-05-19 16:08 < kim_bruning> ^^;;
2008-05-19 16:08 < Phoenixwi> The359, why would they?
2008-05-19 16:08 < Messedrocker> Are there people out there who read "^5" as "Ctrl-5" ?
2008-05-19 16:08 < Phoenixwi> the website has only one ip, ther otehr sites, like google books, google scholar and youtube might
2008-05-19 16:08 < Phoenixwi> Messed not me
2008-05-19 16:08 < Rinn> Because they have a million billion gazillion hojillion servers and sites.
2008-05-19 16:09 < Phoenixwi> yeah but only one connection...
2008-05-19 16:09 < Messedrocker> you can still have multiple ips
2008-05-19 16:10 < quanticle> Phoenixwi: Google has many IPs which they rotate amongst as part of their load balancing systme.
2008-05-19 16:10 < quanticle> *system
2008-05-19 16:10 < Phoenixwi> ah kk
2008-05-19 16:12 * kim_bruning is apparently sane
2008-05-19 16:12 * kim_bruning raises Messedrocker to the 5th power
2008-05-19 16:13 < kim_bruning> I also read it as ctrl-5, or "high five"
2008-05-19 16:13 < geniice> "That is just SO cool. I don't know anyone else who has edited a Wikipedia article. Do you think that's a hot thing to let girls know about if you're in high school? We gotta talk to our boys." WTF?
2008-05-19 16:13 < gwern> 'Remember how we've always been told that free markets and free people go hand in hand? That was a lie. It turns out that the most efficient delivery system for capitalism is actually a communist-style police state, fortressed with American "homeland security" technologies, pumped up with "war on terror" rhetoric. And the global corporations currently earning superprofits from this social experiment are unlikely to be content if the lucrative new market r
2008-05-19 16:13 < Messedrocker> great, now i weight 38 millions tons
2008-05-19 16:14 < gwern> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20797485/chinas_allseeing_eye/print
2008-05-19 16:15 < gwern> geniice: let's get'em an admin, who has edited a couple dozen thousand articles
2008-05-19 16:15 < gwern> maybe simonp
2008-05-19 16:15 < gwern> 'Indeed, China has seen levels of political unrest in recent years unknown since 1989, the year student protests were crushed with tanks in Tiananmen Square. In 2005, by the government's own measure, there were at least 87,000 "mass incidents" — governmentspeak for large-scale protests or riots.'
2008-05-19 16:17 < gwern> 'During the Lhasa riots, police on the scene augmented the footage from the CCTVs with their own video cameras, choosing to film — rather than stop — the violence, which left 19 dead. The police then quickly cut together the surveillance shots that made the Tibetans look most vicious — beating Chinese bystanders, torching shops, ripping metal sheeting off banks — and created a kind of copumentary: Tibetans Gone Wild.'
2008-05-19 16:17 < gwern> 'These weren't the celestial beings in flowing robes the Beastie Boys and Richard Gere had told us about. They were angry young men, wielding sticks and long knives. They looked ugly, brutal, tribal. On Chinese state TV, this footage played around the clock.'
2008-05-19 16:17 < Rinn> Tiennawomen Circle
2008-05-19 16:18 < leileilol> http://leileilol.mancubus.net/models/sou4.png
2008-05-19 16:20 < kim_bruning> gwern, some folks claim the entire thing was staged from start to finish
2008-05-19 16:20 < gwern> leileilol: what?
2008-05-19 16:21 < kim_bruning> which?
2008-05-19 16:21 < kim_bruning> who!
2008-05-19 16:21 < kim_bruning> oh, cool model, did you design that all by yourself?
2008-05-19 16:22 < Messedrocker> looks like an N64 game
2008-05-19 16:22 < gwern> kim_bruning: I wouldn't put it past the chinese, but I would find it more believable that they deliberately let it rage rather than instigated the entire thing
2008-05-19 16:22 < crazybanana> Hello?
2008-05-19 16:22 < crazybanana> What should wpStarttime and wpEdittime be set to?
2008-05-19 16:22 < kim_bruning> gwern, seems the most probable
2008-05-19 16:23 < kim_bruning> gwern, possibly they fueled the flames some more too
2008-05-19 16:23 < kim_bruning> gwern, I wonder how many steps ahead the chinese had planned
2008-05-19 16:24 < gwern> nah. based on that, I figure that any pre-riot calculations going on is on the order of 'let's not do anything to keep the tibetans happy; if they riot, we'll arrest everyone and having lanced the pustule of splittists, the olympics will be nice and quiet'
2008-05-19 16:25 < leileilol> yes
2008-05-19 16:26 < kim_bruning> gwern, hmm, that seems sane.
2008-05-19 16:26 < quanticle> gwern: Indeed. That's how I'd do it.
2008-05-19 16:27 < gwern> and then the footage is just smart propaganda
2008-05-19 16:28 < kim_bruning> looks like the world is going through another fascism cycle
2008-05-19 16:28 < kim_bruning> hmm, most of the people who survived the last one are dead
2008-05-19 16:28 < kim_bruning> prolly not a coincidence
2008-05-19 16:29 < Phoenixwi> what makes you say that?
2008-05-19 16:30 * quanticle doesn't see fascism on the march
2008-05-19 16:30 < quanticle> At best, its fought democracy to a sort of draw
2008-05-19 16:30 < kim_bruning> china, usa, uk, au to an extent maybe
2008-05-19 16:30 < kim_bruning> all picking up totalitarian overtones
2008-05-19 16:31 < gwern> italy, recently. trying to expell romany
2008-05-19 16:31 < gwern> a very fascist thing to do
2008-05-19 16:31 < gwern> one of the signatures of european fascists was killing gays and gypsys, in addition to the more well known jews
2008-05-19 16:31 < kim_bruning> true
2008-05-19 16:31 < kim_bruning> but that's just scapegoating
2008-05-19 16:31 < kim_bruning> for some definition of "just"
2008-05-19 16:31 < Species8472> Question, articles are seperated with titles, but is it possible to view edits for only one of those parts?
2008-05-19 16:32 < kim_bruning> Species8472, afaik no
2008-05-19 16:32 < gwern> sections? no
2008-05-19 16:32 < gwern> you'd have to analyze the whole article's history; then you might be able to present a history of a section
2008-05-19 16:32 < Species8472> For example to view edits that were done in this section: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki#Editing_wiki_pages
2008-05-19 16:32 < gwern> but that's theoretically tricky
2008-05-19 16:33 < Species8472> yes because the history is huge :)
2008-05-19 16:33 < gwern> Species8472: how would a tool handle a section which gets deleted, and then restored with a slightly different title?
2008-05-19 16:34 < Species8472> I don't know I was merely interested if there was such an option as it would have helped me greatly, now and in other situations from the past.
2008-05-19 16:34 < gwern> ufortunately, Wikipedia's RCS is per-page, and relatively primitive
2008-05-19 16:35 * gwern hopes one day to see a good mediawiki/clone backed by a DVCS like git or something
2008-05-19 16:36 < gwern> that'd be so cool. we have no good offline editing solutions
2008-05-19 16:37 < geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Ivory_Coast_toxic_waste_spill <--- an article just asking for legal trouble
2008-05-19 16:38 < WBOSITG> hallo
2008-05-19 16:38 < gwern> it's an interesting idea. you could download a dump to populate your repo, pull all the incremental changes since, and then go offline and edit away. for most editors you probably won't hit too many conflicts when you sync up later
2008-05-19 16:38 < gwern> and git, at least, is supposed to be able to scale to the hundreds of megs and gigs a full wikipedia mirror would take
2008-05-19 16:40 < gwern> geniice: what about it?
2008-05-19 16:41 < geniice> gwern the company involved has been slightly libel happy
2008-05-19 16:41 < gwern> nl doesn't seem to've been sued
2008-05-19 16:41 < gwern> why would en?
2008-05-19 16:41 < geniice> gwern some of the families of those killed and made sick tried to sue
2008-05-19 16:42 < geniice> but they made the mistake of putting stuff on the web
2008-05-19 16:42 < Messedrocker> eh?
2008-05-19 16:42 < geniice> Trafigura responded by trying to sue them
2008-05-19 16:43 < crazybanana> Can somebody please be answered me?
2008-05-19 16:43 < crazybanana> What should wpStarttime and wpEdittime be set to?