freenode #wikipedia

2008-05-18 22:31 < Messedrocker> i remember watching a guy lecture about Metavid. It's damn cool
2008-05-18 22:32 < Alkivar> most speech in congress is recorded and entered in hard copy to the library of congress
2008-05-18 22:32 < gwern> metavid sounds horribly web 2.0
2008-05-18 22:32 < JasonBourne> paris isn't too bad lookin bro
2008-05-18 22:32 < Messedrocker> it is
2008-05-18 22:32 < JasonBourne> in real life i talk to ppl all the time
2008-05-18 22:32 < JasonBourne> they say paris is hot
2008-05-18 22:32 < JasonBourne> only online do ppl bad mouth her much
2008-05-18 22:32 < Messedrocker> no she's not
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> every1 i talk to irl
2008-05-18 22:33 < gwern> That's hot.
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> says shes hot
2008-05-18 22:33 < Alkivar> so i would assume that yes, the majority of congressional speech is recorded, and i'd hazard a guess that work by a senator/representative during his job counts as PD-USGov
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> its these internet nerds who cant even get a girl
2008-05-18 22:33 < gwern> JasonBourne: maybe they watched too much paris hilton porn?
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> callin her ugly an stuff
2008-05-18 22:33 < bumm13> ...
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> just for a joke
2008-05-18 22:33 < JasonBourne> dudei could call any girl fugly online
2008-05-18 22:33 < cimon> JasonBourne: Well, Sveaborg is one of the most amazing looking fortifications in the world, and I mean *in the world*. Yet, nobody has ever had too much trouble getting under her skirts...
2008-05-18 22:33 < Alkivar> lol most intartards cant get a girl
2008-05-18 22:34 < Alkivar> and those that do tend to get girl intartards
2008-05-18 22:34 < cimon> find she is a guy on the Bureau
2008-05-18 22:35 < gwern> only when she's young
2008-05-18 22:35 < cimon> lol
2008-05-18 22:35 < Messedrocker> kitty on my lap
2008-05-18 22:35 < Messedrocker> warming up my legs
2008-05-18 22:35 < cimon> girls on the internet change sex, when they grow up?
2008-05-18 22:36 < cimon> :D
2008-05-18 22:36 < gwern> cimon: their feminine side is destroyed by the things they see
2008-05-18 22:36 < cimon> Their feminine FBI side?
2008-05-18 22:37 < gwern> cimon: no, I mean that which CANNOT BE UNSEEN
2008-05-18 22:38 < cimon> so should I go see the new Indiana Jones movie?
2008-05-18 22:38 < cimon> ...to change the subject...
2008-05-18 22:39 < Alkivar> AHAHAHAHA WIIIIIIN
2008-05-18 22:39 < Alkivar> LIFELOCK CEO SSN STOLEN!
2008-05-18 22:39 < The359> stolen?
2008-05-18 22:39 < Leslie_S> gwern you mean like 2 girls 1 cup?
2008-05-18 22:39 < Alkivar> http://www.wvgazette.com/News/200805172662
2008-05-18 22:39 < The359> how can it be stolen if he gives it away?
2008-05-18 22:39 < Alkivar> read the article
2008-05-18 22:39 < gwern> Leslie_S: I didn't think that was all that was terrible
2008-05-18 22:39 < gwern> Alkivar: ironic. remind me never to purchase his product
2008-05-18 22:40 < gwern> cimon: wait for the reviews, I'd say. the secrecy never bodes well when lucas is involved, and the very early reviews on sites like AICN are quite negative
2008-05-18 22:40 < The359> not stolen ;)
2008-05-18 22:40 < The359> just used inproperly
2008-05-18 22:40 < The359> Unlike his claim
2008-05-18 22:41 < Alkivar> "While LifeLock has only publicly acknowledged that Davis' identity was compromised on one occasion, there are more than 20 driver's licenses that have been fraudulently obtained [using his personal information]," the suit states.
2008-05-18 22:41 < Alkivar> "Furthermore, a simple background check performed using Davis' Social Security number reveals that his entire personal profile has been compromised to the extent that the birth date associated with his Social Security number is Nov. 2, 1940, which would [inaccurately] make Davis 67 years old."
2008-05-18 22:41 < gwern> 20? sounds like quite a few thieves took him up on his challenge
2008-05-18 22:42 < Alkivar> so not only did they use his info... even the fucking social security administration info got updated to invalid data
2008-05-18 22:42 < cimon> gwern: Spielberg, you mean?
2008-05-18 22:42 < Alkivar> i'd say that is 100% FAIL
2008-05-18 22:42 < Lycurgus> cimon: yes and no.
2008-05-18 22:43 < gwern> cimon: lucas is heavily involved too ya know
2008-05-18 22:43 < JasonBourne> thats like me sain jessica alba is ugly
2008-05-18 22:43 < JasonBourne> or osmethin
2008-05-18 22:43 < Lycurgus> an they's both dried up
2008-05-18 22:43 < Working_Cat> quanticle'
2008-05-18 22:43 < Lycurgus> like some really dry thing
2008-05-18 22:43 < Working_Cat> the levee went dry????/
2008-05-18 22:43 < Working_Cat> ZOMG :(
2008-05-18 22:44 < cimon> JasonBourne: I was quite amused reading that Jessica Alba said she would never do nudity...
2008-05-18 22:44 < cimon> JasonBourne: But I guess they must have used body doubles in Dark Angel then...
2008-05-18 22:45 * Lycurgus is not sure who Jessica Alba but if she's Ms. Fantastic, then yeah, I see it.
2008-05-18 22:46 < Lycurgus> *is
2008-05-18 22:46 < Lycurgus> but beauty as such is in the eye of the beholder
2008-05-18 22:49 < SWATJester> I'm waiting for the Miley Cyrus playboy shoot
2008-05-18 22:49 < SWATJester> in about 5 years, it's a no-brainer
2008-05-18 22:51 < The359> if you're "waiting", you must want her now
2008-05-18 22:51 < The359> pedo
2008-05-18 22:52 < Lycurgus> nonsense, 15 would be legal marriage age a lot of places
2008-05-18 22:52 < gwern> 'Alba fears being typecast as a sex kitten based on the bulk of parts offered to her. "Somehow, I don't think this is happening to Natalie Portman," laments Alba. In the interview, Alba says she wants to be taken seriously as an actress but believes she needs to do movies that she would otherwise not be interested in to build her career, stating that eventually she hopes to be more selective in her film projects.'
2008-05-18 22:52 < The359> you don't have to have sex in marriage, Lycurgus ;)
2008-05-18 22:52 < gwern> The359: you're the sort of person who thinks counting down to Emma Watson is a creepy thing to do!
2008-05-18 22:53 < gwern> I dunno how to speak to such people
2008-05-18 22:53 < The359> who?
2008-05-18 22:53 < Rinn> Hermione.
2008-05-18 22:53 < The359> who?
2008-05-18 22:53 < Lycurgus> Gingold
2008-05-18 22:53 < Lycurgus> .
2008-05-18 22:53 < gwern> don't play us, The359
2008-05-18 22:53 * The359 isn't
2008-05-18 22:53 < gwern> but left the church after four years because she felt she was being judged for her appearance, explaining:
2008-05-18 22:53 < gwern> “ Older men would hit on me, and my youth pastor said it was because I was wearing provocative clothing, when I wasn't. It just made me feel like if I was in any way desirable to the opposite sex that it was my fault, and it made me ashamed of my body and being a woman.'
2008-05-18 22:54 < gwern> well, Jessica Alba...
2008-05-18 22:54 < The359> ashamed to be a woman...
2008-05-18 22:54 < The359> because the opposite sex is attracted to you
2008-05-18 22:54 < The359> I hope she was never attracted to a male
2008-05-18 22:54 < The359> that'd be an asshole thing to do
2008-05-18 22:54 < Working_Cat> lol
2008-05-18 22:55 < gwern> The359: remember, she's attributing the cause of that to her pastor
2008-05-18 22:56 < The359> so older men only hit on her in church?
2008-05-18 22:56 * denelson83 watches The359 rape a shoe
2008-05-18 22:57 < The359> ..................?
2008-05-18 22:57 < gwern> The359: well, given how young Alba is, that's entirely possible
2008-05-18 22:58 < gwern> I mean, geez, even during Dark Angel, how old was she? 20?
2008-05-18 23:16 < quanticle> Whoa
2008-05-18 23:17 * quanticle has been offline for over 24 hours
2008-05-18 23:17 < bumm13> hiya quanticle
2008-05-18 23:17 < quanticle> Hiya
2008-05-18 23:24 < quanticle> Huh. Apparently the most played computer game in the world is... solitaire.
2008-05-18 23:24 * quanticle likes Minesweeper better
2008-05-18 23:25 < bumm13> some people probably don't like the "feel" of Minesweeper
2008-05-18 23:25 < bumm13> it involves numbers!
2008-05-18 23:25 < bumm13> or perhaps its "not always 100% solvable" nature
2008-05-18 23:26 < gwern> quanticle: are you surprised?
2008-05-18 23:26 < gwern> you must not know many non-geeks
2008-05-18 23:26 < bumm13> in Klondike Solitaire, you learn the simple rules, then go with the flow
2008-05-18 23:27 < quanticle> gwern: I'm not surprised at all.
2008-05-18 23:27 < quanticle> "Still, I don't think solitaire will go extinct. It is the cockroach of gaming, remarkably flexible and adaptable. You can occupy yourself with an easy variant or one that's almost impossible to win, stare at the screen for five minutes or five hours, and play with an eye toward strategy or with your brain turned off. The game also has a way of colonizing new technology: There are implementations for your cell phone, your PDA, your iPod and iPh
2008-05-18 23:27 < bumm13> I'm sure if Microsoft is still around in the future, Windows will have Solitaire and some variant of Paint
2008-05-18 23:27 < Alkivar> paint, sound recorder, media player, solitaire, and probably ie
2008-05-18 23:28 < quanticle> bumm13: Even if Microsoft isn't around. I know most Linux distros come with Solitaire, Paint, and Minesweeper.
2008-05-18 23:28 < bumm13> (contrast the GNU philosophy that "any real OS must have a chess program!" ;)
2008-05-18 23:28 < bumm13> well, variants yes
2008-05-18 23:28 < bumm13> Gnome and KDE both have a Minesweeper variant
2008-05-18 23:28 < Alkivar> speaking of GNU and Windows... you guys heard Wine 1.0 is due out any day now right?
2008-05-18 23:29 < bumm13> heck, gnome has its own version of JezzBall ;)
2008-05-18 23:30 * quanticle has beaten Minesweeper on Easy Mode in 9 seconds
2008-05-18 23:30 < bumm13> it can be done
2008-05-18 23:30 < quanticle> bumm13: It was a one in a million layout
2008-05-18 23:30 < bumm13> the harder modes, not so easy ;)
2008-05-18 23:30 < bumm13> ahh
2008-05-18 23:30 < bumm13> that helps
2008-05-18 23:30 < quanticle> bumm13: I've beaten all the modes
2008-05-18 23:31 < bumm13> \o/
2008-05-18 23:31 < bumm13> superstar!
2008-05-18 23:31 * quanticle <3 minesweeper
2008-05-18 23:31 < quanticle> Hard mode was... tricky.
2008-05-18 23:31 < bumm13> now play Freecell ;)
2008-05-18 23:31 < quanticle> bumm13: Not as good of a record there, but I've beaten a few games.
2008-05-18 23:31 < bumm13> some of the layouts can be damn difficult
2008-05-18 23:31 * Working_Cat mines quanticle
2008-05-18 23:32 < quanticle> The nice thing about Linux minesweeper as opposed to Windows minesweeper is that the Linux variant pauses when you alt-tab
2008-05-18 23:32 < gwern> http://laughingsquid.com/the-worlds-largest-lolcat-invisible-bike-mural/ <-- largest lolcat evar?
2008-05-18 23:32 < bumm13> well, I doubt the MS version has been altered much since 1995 ;)
2008-05-18 23:33 * bumm13 needs to mess around with Linux again
2008-05-18 23:33 < gwern> Alkivar: yeah, we heard. unfortunately, it's not all that important since it's not like it's getting anything majorly important the weekly releases (or whatever) do.
2008-05-18 23:33 < gwern> although it is cool that the wine people think they can stand up as a 1.0 now, with all the expecatations appurtaining
2008-05-18 23:38 < Alkivar> yeah its seriously underwhelming
2008-05-18 23:39 < Alkivar> wine 0.98 or whatever the last non RC build was still doesnt run half the shit i need it to run
2008-05-18 23:39 < Alkivar> which is why i use VMWare in linux
2008-05-18 23:39 < gwern> eh. I only play windows games which are years old; works well for me
2008-05-18 23:40 < Krimpet> VirtualBox is cool, though the super-fancy seamless mode doesn't seem to work right for me
2008-05-18 23:41 * gwern tries to comprehend: http://crap.fi/archive/487.jpg
2008-05-18 23:42 < Soxred93> Does anyone know if VitrualBox runs Windows XP a little quicker than most other vitrualizers?
2008-05-18 23:44 < quanticle> Soxred93: Is VirtualBox the one that Microsoft makes?
2008-05-18 23:44 < gwern> 'Here's my favorite Manson moment: After Columbine, a reporter asked him what he would have said to the shooters to try to dissuade them from committing such violence. MM replied, "I wouldn't have said anything. I would have listened."'
2008-05-18 23:44 < Soxred93> I don't think so...
2008-05-18 23:44 < Soxred93> Microsoft makes one?
2008-05-18 23:44 < Antonio_Lopez> O_o
2008-05-18 23:45 < MessedRocker> gwern, such wisdom
2008-05-18 23:45 < Krimpet> VirtualBox is Sun
2008-05-18 23:46 < Antonio_Lopez> Yep
2008-05-18 23:46 < gwern> it's a brillaint quote. I wonder if it's on wikiquote
2008-05-18 23:46 < Antonio_Lopez> SunMicrosystems
2008-05-18 23:46 < bumm13> Sun Microsystems is a somewhat-odd company
2008-05-18 23:46 < gwern> one of the best parts is that you don't really expect that from marilyn manson, just based on his rep
2008-05-18 23:47 < Antonio_Lopez> whats odd about SunM
2008-05-18 23:47 < bumm13> I dunno
2008-05-18 23:47 < quanticle> bumm13: Odd in the sense that it makes lots of products that earn it no revenue?
2008-05-18 23:47 < bumm13> maybe just the software side of their operations
2008-05-18 23:47 < bumm13> quanticle: perhaps
2008-05-18 23:47 < Antonio_Lopez> thats true
2008-05-18 23:47 < Antonio_Lopez> StarOffice
2008-05-18 23:47 < bumm13> hardware-wise, they're more about selling service (like a mini-IBM of sorts)
2008-05-18 23:47 < Antonio_Lopez> OpenOffice
2008-05-18 23:48 < quanticle> bumm13: OpenSolaris
2008-05-18 23:48 < quanticle> Antonio_Lopez: ^
2008-05-18 23:48 < quanticle> Whoops
2008-05-18 23:48 < bumm13> rather than their older SPARC workstation stuff
2008-05-18 23:48 < Antonio_Lopez> ?
2008-05-18 23:49 < quanticle> Antonio_Lopez: Adding to the list of software products that don't bring in revenue for Sun.
2008-05-18 23:49 < gwern> hm. wikiquote says the quote is: 'I wouldn't say a single word to them. I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did.'
2008-05-18 23:49 < Antonio_Lopez> ok
2008-05-18 23:50 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Its your turn in the chess game.
2008-05-18 23:50 < Antonio_Lopez> It's a good thing I don't Invest in them... ...would you buy my SunM stock
2008-05-18 23:51 * bumm13 prefers mutual funds, thank you much
2008-05-18 23:51 * Antonio_Lopez burns his stock
2008-05-18 23:52 < Krimpet> my college CS department is all Suns
2008-05-18 23:52 < Antonio_Lopez> on the Sun
2008-05-18 23:52 < gwern> quanticle: what, was staroffice making so much before? opening it is as good as anything for them, and at least might benefit them in their war against MS and to make linux the desktop
2008-05-18 23:52 < Krimpet> and they just got a whole new bunch in, so Sun must be doing well for em
2008-05-18 23:52 < cimon> ‪(06:52:10 AM)‬‏‬ ‪cimon‬‏‬: ?*؟
2008-05-18 23:53 < bumm13> university CS departments often do like Sun stuff
2008-05-18 23:53 < quanticle> gwern: Well, what I'm saying is that Sun's software division is brilliant, but they just can't seem to monetize any of their software products. Java, StarOffice, Solaris - Sun tried to make money on all these things and essentially failed.
2008-05-18 23:53 < cimon> ‏/me likes ‫?*؟ stuff
2008-05-18 23:53 < bumm13> Sun has a poor history in the area of marketing
2008-05-18 23:53 < Kamping_Kaiser> sun bad at making inroads, its very good at existing though
2008-05-18 23:53 < quanticle> Sun's hardware division is supporting their software stuff.
2008-05-18 23:54 < Antonio_Lopez> I was kidding about the stock, I don't even have anything Invested
2008-05-18 23:54 < quanticle> Kamping_Kaiser: Well, at this point, Sun is Just Another Server Box.
2008-05-18 23:54 < quanticle> Kamping_Kaiser: I mean, its not even like they're using SPARC anymore.
2008-05-18 23:54 < gwern> quanticle: they've made a ton of money on java and solaris, what are you talking about? solaris used to sell their hardware, and the knockon effects of originating and controlling java are not to be underestimated
2008-05-18 23:54 < Kamping_Kaiser> quanticle, they do still have sparcs. i do agree about 'just another server box' on the intel and amd lines
2008-05-18 23:55 < Krimpet> the new labs here are apparently x86's running Solaris
2008-05-18 23:55 * Kamping_Kaiser always feels sad to see another company spread x86
2008-05-18 23:56 < bumm13> SPARC is a dead-end mostly regarding servers and "workstations" (if you can call high-end desktop systems that anymore)
2008-05-18 23:56 < quanticle> gwern: What "knock-on" effects of controlling Java? The entire point of Java was that it'd be a framework to make cross platform programming easy. I don't see that as being beneficial to Sun.'
2008-05-18 23:56 < bumm13> Java is an odd duck
2008-05-18 23:57 < bumm13> I'm not all that fond of it, personally
2008-05-18 23:57 < bumm13> Java-based apps tend to hog a lot of system resources
2008-05-18 23:58 < gwern> quanticle: consulting, selling hardware, selling all the proprietary software in java and needed for java dev, and so on. look at their quarterly reports and you'll see revenue coming in from all over the place
2008-05-18 23:58 < Krimpet> Java's a good teaching language, though not much else it seems
2008-05-18 23:58 < bumm13> yeah, probably true
2008-05-18 23:58 < Gracenotes> <bumm13> Sun has a poor history in the area of marketing <-- you've seen Sun's P/E ratio, though? :)
2008-05-18 23:58 < quanticle> bumm13: The way I see Java is that, in my opinion, it was supposed to be Python, but, because it had to run on embedded hardware, it ended up being more of a low level language than it ought to have been.
2008-05-18 23:58 < amidaniel> Java? Low-level?
2008-05-18 23:58 < amidaniel> o.O
2008-05-18 23:59 < Kamping_Kaiser> giggle
2008-05-18 23:59 < gwern> quanticle: unlikely. the Oak prototypes were meant for embedded; settop boxes, iirc
2008-05-18 23:59 < quanticle> Krimpet: No. Java is not a good teaching language. Java has the distinction of being in exactly the wrong place. Its not as "close to the hardware" as C, but its not abstract like Python or Lisp.
2008-05-18 23:59 < gwern> jumping to the browser and system came later
2008-05-18 23:59 < quanticle> amidaniel: Java certainly is less abstract than Python.
2008-05-19 00:00 < Krimpet> quanticle: well, the AP exam uses it. not saying I _like_ Java. :)
2008-05-19 00:00 < gwern> quanticle: now that I can agree with. I had the dubious pleasure of being taught java as a first language. turned me off imperative and OO languages forever
2008-05-19 00:00 < amidaniel> quanticle: Sure, but python's about as abstract as you get
2008-05-19 00:00 < amidaniel> And for that, completely useless
2008-05-19 00:00 < quanticle> Krimpet: Yeah. I found the move to Java to be questionable. Arguably, they should have stuck with C++, or gone straight to Python.
2008-05-19 00:00 * gwern thought, if it's this bad at a high-level language, how am I ever going to manage C or C++ or asm?
2008-05-19 00:00 < Krimpet> python is ewww, in my opinion
2008-05-19 00:00 < quanticle> amidaniel: Not really. For something really abstract, you use Lisp, or ML.
2008-05-19 00:01 < quanticle> amidaniel: And Python is about as useful as Perl and a hell of a lot more readable.
2008-05-19 00:01 < quanticle> Krimpet: What do you hate about Python? Is it the whitespace?
2008-05-19 00:01 < Sky2042_afk> lol
2008-05-19 00:01 < gwern> amidaniel: no wai. you can abstract more. start talking agda, epigram, Qi 2, whatever research variants of SML there are, and so on, then I'll believe you about hitting the limits of abstraction
2008-05-19 00:02 < amidaniel> Meh, true.
2008-05-19 00:02 < quanticle> gwern: Lets not forget Lisp, Scheme, or Prolog.
2008-05-19 00:02 < amidaniel> I wouldn't exactly call perl "useful" though :)
2008-05-19 00:02 < amidaniel> It has its applications -- but they're few and far between
2008-05-19 00:02 < Krimpet> quanticle: not the whitespace, actually... more the global functions, __doubleunderscores__, hackish class system, etc.
2008-05-19 00:02 < amidaniel> I don't really see much point in teaching it at the university level
2008-05-19 00:02 < amidaniel> As a primary programming course, that is
2008-05-19 00:02 < gwern> quanticle: Qi 2 pushes the common lisp envelop, why I mentioned it
2008-05-19 00:02 < Krimpet> Scheme is a really nice teaching language, but _really_ not much else
2008-05-19 00:03 < quanticle> amidaniel: Perl is damn useful. Perhaps not as a language for *applications*, but Perl is useful for those times when you want a quick script that gets the job done, and you can't be arsed to do it in bash or whatever shell you're using.
2008-05-19 00:03 < amidaniel> Yes, for a quick script, exactly :)
2008-05-19 00:03 < amidaniel> Are we going to teach a large projects course in perl though? :)
2008-05-19 00:03 < quanticle> Krimpet: Heh. To be fair, I think that Scheme has more application development support than Common Lisp.
2008-05-19 00:03 < gwern> Krimpet: scheme has potential, if they could just build up a decent standard library and a CPAN-alike. we haskellers have been working on the latter lately, and I sense over the last year or so, Hackage has helped a lot of people use haskell more
2008-05-19 00:04 < quanticle> amidaniel: Heh. Of course not. I'd use Java for that :)
2008-05-19 00:04 < Krimpet> quanticle/gwern: the problem with scheme is that while there's a ton of usable implementations, they're all nonstandard
2008-05-19 00:05 < quanticle> Krimpet: Yeah. That's one of the frustrating things about functional languages in general - there's no standardization.
2008-05-19 00:05 < quanticle> Krimpet: I've seen the same thing with Prolog and ML.
2008-05-19 00:05 < Krimpet> quanticle: Common Lisp is pretty well standardized - just a pity it's not used anymore really
2008-05-19 00:06 < quanticle> Krimpet: Common Lisp is nice, but, as you say there aren't very many libraries or frameworks for it.
2008-05-19 00:07 < Alkivar> http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_1phobia.6371961may18,0,5700457.story?page=1
2008-05-19 00:07 < gwern> Krimpet: right, that's what I mean. why are they nonstandard? because there's no core that you can write many usable programs in. haskell has a pretty large base library, you rarely need to actually go outside it for simple things. there's no shared portable core. the standards may catch up at some point...
2008-05-19 00:07 < Alkivar> THAT MAKES ME ANGRY
2008-05-19 00:07 < Wuju> hi
2008-05-19 00:07 < gwern> Alkivar: anger, leads to hate. hate leads to fear. and fear- leads to the dark side!
2008-05-19 00:07 < Krimpet> Alkivar: "school phobia"?
2008-05-19 00:08 * amidaniel wonders if gwern just finished watching the Star Wars Robot Chicken ...
2008-05-19 00:08 < quanticle> "I came to Japan in 1988 at age 19, spent most of college living in a Zen Buddhist temple, and then became the first U.S. citizen hired as a regular staff writer for a Japanese newspaper in Japanese. If you know anything about Japan, you'll realize how bizarre this is -- a gaijin, or foreigner, covering Japanese cops."
2008-05-19 00:08 < gwern> modeling classes? she's not that hot
2008-05-19 00:08 < gwern> quanticle: read it
2008-05-19 00:08 < Krimpet> couldn't that apply to a good 90% of all students? <_<
2008-05-19 00:08 < Wuju> i follow zen
2008-05-19 00:08 < quanticle> gwern: Heh. Sounds like the intro to a cyberpunk novel, doesn't it?
2008-05-19 00:09 < gwern> quanticle: a little, but I was thinking more Stephenson
2008-05-19 00:10 < quanticle> gwern: Stephenson == cyberpunk. He is one of the cofounders of the genre, after all.
2008-05-19 00:10 < bumm13> quanticle: what does that text mean by it "being odd"?
2008-05-19 00:11 < gwern> quanticle: what? you've got your chronology all wrong. Snow Crash was one of the final valedictory works of the genre, not a 'cofounder'
2008-05-19 00:11 < gwern> Alkivar: reading through the article makes that family sound totally exploitative
2008-05-19 00:12 * amidaniel blares Meshuggah into the channel
2008-05-19 00:12 < gwern> why are they paying'em 40k? just tell her to homeschool
2008-05-19 00:12 < quanticle> gwern: Really? Then what would be the founding works of the genre?
2008-05-19 00:12 < quanticle> bumm13: What do you mean?
2008-05-19 00:12 < gwern> why is the district responsible for 'school phobia'? what the heck could they do to 'accomodate' that?
2008-05-19 00:12 < gwern> quanticle: go read the cyberpunk WP page...
2008-05-19 00:13 * gwern sort of wonders how an unemployed mother is doing all this stuff and playing with two Japanese Chin dogs
2008-05-19 00:14 < SonicAD> this is weird
2008-05-19 00:14 < SonicAD> before today, I'd never heard of Toowoomba, Australia
2008-05-19 00:14 < cimon> quanticle: hmm. I never considered stephenson a founder.
2008-05-19 00:14 < SonicAD> and then, within 2 hours, I hear mention of it from 2 completely different sources
2008-05-19 00:14 < SonicAD> and I'm in America
2008-05-19 00:14 < cimon> bah, beaten to it by gwern
2008-05-19 00:15 < SonicAD> not exactly a place where you're going to hear any Australian city mentioned much, and certainly not Toowoomba :P
2008-05-19 00:16 < quanticle> gwern: [[Cyberpunk]] doesn't even mention Snow Crash.
2008-05-19 00:16 < cimon> gwern:right, snowcrash raised the bar up so high, you'd have to have been freaking nuts to try and top it. Afterthat it became manner punk.
2008-05-19 00:16 < SonicAD> one mention was via a Doctor Who short story I was reading
2008-05-19 00:16 < GP001> k bye
2008-05-19 00:17 < SonicAD> the author of the story appears to be Australian, so that makes sense
2008-05-19 00:17 < gwern> quanticle: well so much for your 'co-founders' idea
2008-05-19 00:17 < SonicAD> and then I watch Indy 500 qualifying, and find out Will Power is from... Toowoomba
2008-05-19 00:17 < quanticle> "Furthermore, it should be noted that works published after 1993 are increasingly likely to be labeled "postcyberpunk", a term first applied to Stephenson's Snow Crash." <-- From [[List of Cyberpunk Works]]
2008-05-19 00:17 < quanticle> I guess I was wrong then.
2008-05-19 00:17 * quanticle never thought of Snow Crash as "post-cyberpunk"
2008-05-19 00:18 < gwern> quanticle: you're wrong about a lot of things. That's one reason I like you - I get to correct you so much
2008-05-19 00:18 < gwern> quanticle: it's too humorous, too ironic, and too ecumenical in approach - mingling tech and huamnities
2008-05-19 00:18 < gwern> it's dystopian, but optimistic
2008-05-19 00:19 * amidaniel applauds gwern for finding his way to the thesaurus
2008-05-19 00:19 < quanticle> gwern: Well, not all cyberpunk has to be pessimistic. I mean, most of Gibson's stories had optimistic endings.
2008-05-19 00:19 < gwern> amidaniel: dude, I don't need to find my way. I am a walking dictionary and thesaurus (but I don't do rhymes)
2008-05-19 00:20 < gwern> and when I can't handle it, I invite people to say hello to my little friend (he's a photoreduced OED with a mean hangover from my leftover scotch)
2008-05-19 00:20 < amidaniel> o.O
2008-05-19 00:21 < quanticle> gwern: That statement pretty cyberpunk in itself.
2008-05-19 00:22 < gwern> quanticle: no no, it's more detective or noir, possibly with steampunk undertones
2008-05-19 00:22 < gwern> you have a tin ear man
2008-05-19 00:22 < quanticle> gwern: Perhaps, but I consider steampunk to be a sub-branch of cyberpunk. I just consider it cyberpunk set in the past.
2008-05-19 00:23 < gwern> (steampunk because to speak of print dictionaries or 'photoreduced' is almost obsolete)
2008-05-19 00:23 < gwern> quanticle: then explain the nostalgia; cyberpunk is fascinated with the de-humanization future tech can lead to. steampunk is enthralled with the empowerment of humanity and the joy of invention
2008-05-19 00:24 < gwern> if a scientist in cyberpunk develops a cloud 9, you can be sure it is at the sinister behest of a multinational megacorp; in steampunk, he does it because he's crazy and wants to travel the world in his airship having adventures
2008-05-19 00:25 < gwern> (cloud 9 = [[Cloud nine (Tensegrity sphere)]])
2008-05-19 00:25 < cimon> heh, airships are coming back...
2008-05-19 00:28 < quanticle> gwern: Well, that may be true, but both genres are about loner individuals cast out by society taking technology to its limits.
2008-05-19 00:30 < gwern> quanticle: not a huge similarity. might just as well say 'we can divide all progress-related speculative fiction into positive and negative categories; over in positive, we toss in Buck Rogers, most of Jules verne, steampunk... over there we chuck Frankenstein, Invisible Man...'
2008-05-19 00:30 < On_> This Power Abusing admin (Hu12) has now posted several "evidences" claiing that I am a spammer, example: buyuyenicerik.com I haveno idea hwta he is talking about, I dont even know what language this page is in. How can WP allow Hu12 to abuse his power to create such a salad of lies just in orer to take revenge.
2008-05-19 00:31 < On_> sick.
2008-05-19 00:31 < gwern> On_: we feed on human suffering
2008-05-19 00:31 < Kamping_Kaiser> why dont you just leave the ban in place :/
2008-05-19 00:31 < Kamping_Kaiser> gwern, hehe
2008-05-19 00:31 < bumm13> I'm working on that ;p
2008-05-19 00:31 < The359> Salad of lies?
2008-05-19 00:31 < bumm13> dircbot removes regular bans after 24 hours (or less, maybe)
2008-05-19 00:31 < The359> Does that come with dressing?
2008-05-19 00:32 < gwern> The359: we're vegetarians
2008-05-19 00:32 < gwern> vegetarians who feast on SALADS OF LIES AND SUFFERING
2008-05-19 00:32 < quanticle> gwern: I guess so. Perhaps I'm mixing cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk again.
2008-05-19 00:32 < Kamping_Kaiser> no bone to pick with you then
2008-05-19 00:32 < gwern> but not animal suffering! that'd be immoral
2008-05-19 00:32 < quanticle> gwern: Is The Diamond Age considered cyberpunk?
2008-05-19 00:33 < quanticle> gwern: We also feed on mashed potatoes of fear.
2008-05-19 00:33 < Ceiling_Cat> HALLO ALL!
2008-05-19 00:33 < gwern> quanticle: I think the cyberpunk page mentions it as postcyberpunk
2008-05-19 00:33 < gwern> Loud_Cat: HI
2008-05-19 00:33 < quanticle> gwern: Yeah, I thought so.
2008-05-19 00:33 < quanticle> Hello Ceiling_Cat
2008-05-19 00:34 * Ceiling_Cat waves
2008-05-19 00:35 < leileilol> http://leileilol.mancubus.net/models/sou2wire.png
2008-05-19 00:36 < quanticle> "I have a 10 year old at home, and she is always saying, “That’s not fair.” When she says that, I say, “Honey, you’re cute; that’s not fair. Your family is pretty well off; that’s not fair. You were born in America; that’s not fair. Honey, you had better pray to God that things don’t start getting fair for you.”"
2008-05-19 00:37 < bumm13> ok, that should take care of his persistent disruptiveness ;p
2008-05-19 00:37 < gwern> quanticle: I will remember that response, useful rebuttal
2008-05-19 00:37 < quanticle> bumm13: Whose?
2008-05-19 00:37 < bumm13> On
2008-05-19 00:37 < quanticle> gwern: It is rather incisive, no?
2008-05-19 00:38 < gwern> 'most humans who have ever existed are dead; you aren't - that's not fair'
2008-05-19 00:38 < bumm13> quanticle: he's already been told to use RFC for any grievances regarding a WP admin
2008-05-19 00:38 < MessedRocker> quanticle, where is that from
2008-05-19 00:38 < gwern> quanticle: indeed. it's like the 'don't you know that kids are starving in japan / just eat it (eat it)'
2008-05-19 00:38 < bumm13> he just keeps rambling on, whining, and not listening to anything he's been told here
2008-05-19 00:38 < quanticle> Messedrocker: http://gregmankiw.blogspot.com/2008/05/so-you-want-things-to-be-fair.html
2008-05-19 00:39 < quanticle> gwern: That's a good addition to the quote.
2008-05-19 00:39 < quanticle> The original source is a letter from the Cato institute, of all things.
2008-05-19 00:40 < gwern> actually, I think the ratio of dead humans to live is something like 84:6
2008-05-19 00:40 < gwern> which is a little surprisingly low
2008-05-19 00:40 < quanticle> "Now we thought Ronald Reagan, our Charles Martel, had stopped the pillaging hordes of Jimmy Carter at the Battle of Poitiers -- also known as the 1980 election."
2008-05-19 00:41 < bumm13> o.o
2008-05-19 00:41 < quanticle> "Even the heathen slime, Bill Clinton said, 'The era of big government is over.' We though we'd won.'
2008-05-19 00:41 < quanticle> http://www.cato.org/pubs/catosletter/catosletterv6n2.pdf
2008-05-19 00:42 < gwern> AND THEN GWB STRUCK
2008-05-19 00:42 < karora> Anyone objecting to a restart of the IRC daemon complain on #catalyst within the next couple of minutes...
2008-05-19 00:46 < quanticle> "The two most frightening words in Washington are “bipartisan consensus.” Bipartisan consensus is when my doctor and my lawyer agree with my wife that I need help."
2008-05-19 00:47 < gwern> clever
2008-05-19 00:50 < quanticle> "There is only one thing that gives me hope as a Republican, and that is the Democrats. It's going to be hard to do a worse job of running America than the Republicans have, but, if anybody can do it, it's the Democrats."
2008-05-19 00:51 < quanticle> Damn. P.J. O'Rourke is perhaps the best political writer I've read in a long time.
2008-05-19 00:51 < cimon> gwern: am I being dense, but doesn't 84:6 resolve to 14:1 ?
2008-05-19 00:54 < cimon> gwern: a variation on the fairness line is an anecdote told of Nasruddin.
2008-05-19 00:54 < gwern> cimon: well, I never claimed that was simplified
2008-05-19 00:54 < gwern> obviously you could just factor out 2, for starter
2008-05-19 00:54 < gwern> just eyeballing tells you you could go 42:3
2008-05-19 00:55 < gwern> cimon: I've heard some stories of Nasruddin, but nothing particularly comes to mind
2008-05-19 00:55 < cimon> gwern: some people who had inherited property, asked if they wanted to the apportioning to be made as according to mans law or according to Allah's law.
2008-05-19 00:56 < cimon> they said that according to allahs law, whereupon Nasruddin gave all of the property to one man.
2008-05-19 00:56 < gwern> sounds familiar...
2008-05-19 00:56 < cimon> or something on those lines.
2008-05-19 00:57 * gwern waits for the rest
2008-05-19 00:57 < cimon> that is just about it,
2008-05-19 00:57 < cimon> mans law is equitable, allahs is not.
2008-05-19 00:57 < gwern> maybe you told it wrong, but that's terrible
2008-05-19 00:57 < cimon> yes
2008-05-19 00:58 < cimon> most likely.
2008-05-19 00:58 < quanticle> "But I don't blame the politicians for this. Because, just think what the truth would sound like on the campaign stump. Even a little tiny bit of the truth. 'No, I can't fix public education. The problem isn't teachers unions or lack of vouchers or absence of computer equipment. The problem is your damned kids'"
2008-05-19 00:58 < cimon> The same parable is depicted in one of the Raider-Wait tarot deck cards for the minor arcana...
2008-05-19 00:59 < cimon> gwern: our article on nasruddin at the very least used to have it. see the history, if it has been pared out.
2008-05-19 00:59 < Ceiling_Cat> HA
2008-05-19 00:59 < Ceiling_Cat> The next futurama movie is called 'The Beast With a Billion Backs'
2008-05-19 00:59 * Ceiling_Cat gets that reference
2008-05-19 00:59 < gwern> lotta sex
2008-05-19 01:00 < gwern> Nasreddin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side:
2008-05-19 01:00 < gwern> - "Hey! how do I get to the other side?"
2008-05-19 01:00 < gwern> - "You are on the other side!" Nasreddin shouted back.
2008-05-19 01:00 * Ceiling_Cat booos gwern
2008-05-19 01:00 < cimon> gwern. I bet it was one of the pentacle pip cards...
2008-05-19 01:01 < quanticle> "They are dogs chasing the cat of freedom. They are cats tormenting the mouse of responsibility. They are mice gnawing on the insulated wiring of individualism. They are going to hell in a hand basket, and they stole that basket from you."
2008-05-19 01:01 < gwern> now that's zen
2008-05-19 01:01 < cimon> yes, Six of pentacles, Rider-Waite.
2008-05-19 01:01 < quanticle> "insulate wire of individualism"
2008-05-19 01:02 < Ceiling_Cat> Grrr.... I think a wikipedia article spoiled part of the book I'm reading :(
2008-05-19 01:02 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: if only we had spoiler tags?
2008-05-19 01:02 < gwern> 'Do not remove this notice until the discussion is complete. At that time, please replace this notice with {{Impending Doom}} (if closed as delete), or put {{Vfd-survived}} on the talk page (if closed as keep).' <-- o.0
2008-05-19 01:02 < gwern> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/wiki/Nasrudin
2008-05-19 01:03 < Ceiling_Cat> gwern - it as a list
2008-05-19 01:03 < Ceiling_Cat> not even a proper article
2008-05-19 01:03 < quanticle> gwern: What happened to the spoiler tags?
2008-05-19 01:03 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: an article isn't a book either
2008-05-19 01:04 < OverlordQ> nice to see FF3RC1 is just a horrible as Beta 5
2008-05-19 01:04 < gwern> quanticle: bot removed
2008-05-19 01:04 * gwern doesn't understand the firefox haters
2008-05-19 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 24, 2008]]
2008-05-19 01:04 < OverlordQ> new download manager sucks more then my vacuum
2008-05-19 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> MAOR PUSSY!
2008-05-19 01:04 < gwern> ' While on a trip to another village, Nasrudin lost his favorite copy of the Qur'an.
2008-05-19 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> INSUFFECIENT KATZ ON THE MAIN PAGE!
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> Several weeks later, a goat walked up to Nasrudin, carrying the Qur'an in its mouth.
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> Nasrudin couldn't believe his eyes. He took the precious book out of the goat's mouth, raised his eyes heavenward and exclaimed, "It's a miracle!"
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> "Not really," said the goat. "Your name is written inside the cover."
2008-05-19 01:05 * gwern likes the 11 interpretations for that one
2008-05-19 01:05 < cimon> "Divinitary meanings: Presents, gifts, gratification; another account says attention, vigilance; now is the accepted time, present prosperity, etc. Reversed: Desire, cupidity, envy, jealousy, illusion."
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> '2. It is a good idea to write your name on your possessions.'
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> '10. #
2008-05-19 01:05 < gwern> # Talking animals are a dime a dozen; but a goat that can read, now THAT is a miracle.'
2008-05-19 01:06 < quanticle> gwern: Why'd we get rid of them?
2008-05-19 01:06 < gwern> quanticle: go read the discussions
2008-05-19 01:06 < cimon> gwern: hmm. reminds me they sent a soldier back home for using a Quran for target practise.
2008-05-19 01:06 < quanticle> gwern: Link?
2008-05-19 01:07 < cimon> Not sure what nationality.
2008-05-19 01:07 < quanticle> cimon: Where? Afghanistan?
2008-05-19 01:07 < gwern> quanticle: ah hell, google it
2008-05-19 01:07 < gwern> 'Two children found a bag containing twelve marbles. They argued over how to divide the toys and finally went to see the Mulla. When asked to settle their disagreement, the Mulla asked whether the children wanted him to divide the marbles as a human would or as Allah would.
2008-05-19 01:07 < gwern> The children replied, "We want it to be fair. Divide the marbles as Allah would."
2008-05-19 01:07 < gwern> So, the Mulla counted out the marbles and gave three to one child and nine to the other.'
2008-05-19 01:07 < gwern> cimon: ^
2008-05-19 01:07 < cimon> quanticle: that general area, really not sure about the specifics...
2008-05-19 01:07 < cimon> Afgahistan or Iraq
2008-05-19 01:08 < quanticle> gwern: I don't get it. What's the moral? God's not fair?
2008-05-19 01:08 < cimon> in any case they fould a bullet riddled quran, and send the one who had done it back home.
2008-05-19 01:08 < cimon> *found
2008-05-19 01:08 < cimon> ...found at a practise firing range.
2008-05-19 01:08 < gwern> quanticle: duh
2008-05-19 01:09 < gwern> 'Nasrudin the diver worked 200 feet under the surface, when suddenly a venerable yogi floated into his range of vision, without any breathing apparatus. "Oh master! What are you doing at such a depth?" wrote the surprised Nasrudin on his writing-slate. The guru snatched the slate and china-pencil, and wrote furiously: "Drowning, you idiot!"'
2008-05-19 01:10 < gwern> 'While working as a lorry driver, Nasrudin found himself one day the sole customer in a roadside restaurant, in the middle of the desert, when three bikers barged in. The bored bikers started to provoke him, looking for a fight. One of them bumped into him, another put his cigarette ashes in his coffee, etc. Nasrudin didn't react, but instead got up calmly, paid his bill and left. While they listened to him starting the lorry outside, one of them said wit
2008-05-19 01:10 < quanticle> gwern: Truncated
2008-05-19 01:12 < gwern> Mulla was once boasting about his ageless strength.
2008-05-19 01:12 < gwern> "I am as strong as I was when I was a young man."
2008-05-19 01:12 < gwern> "How can that be?" asked people.
2008-05-19 01:12 < gwern> "There is a big rock outside my house. I couldn't move it then and I can't move it now!" said Mulla.
2008-05-19 01:17 < quanticle> "Nasrudin, is your religion orthodox?"
2008-05-19 01:17 < quanticle> "It all depends on which set of heretics is in power," said Nasrudin
2008-05-19 01:17 < cimon> gwerm: Hmm. You neglected to mention that wikibooks page is up for deletion...
2008-05-19 01:17 < gwern> a lot of those sotires are obviously made up by the editors
2008-05-19 01:18 < quanticle> gwern: The Nasrudin ones?
2008-05-19 01:18 < gwern> like the basement one - obviously it's just a rewrite about the mathematics/physics joke about 'looking under the street lamp'
2008-05-19 01:19 < gwern> yes
2008-05-19 01:21 < gwern> huh. did you know Heraclitus was called "the Dark One"?
2008-05-19 01:21 < gwern> shades of WoT
2008-05-19 01:22 < quanticle> gwern: Heraclitus?
2008-05-19 01:23 < gwern> the philosopher?
2008-05-19 01:23 < quanticle> gwern: Ancient Greek?
2008-05-19 01:23 < gwern> War is king; you can't step in the same river twice; all is fire?
2008-05-19 01:24 < gwern> yes
2008-05-19 01:29 * cimon wonders what kind of fire is slightly moist and squishy.
2008-05-19 01:30 < cimon> pudding-fire
2008-05-19 01:36 < cimon> " "Thief, thief! Someone has stolen my camel!" cried Nasrudin. Finally after the commotion was quietened someone observed, "But Nasrudin, you have no camel." "Shhh..." said Nasrudin, "I am hoping the thief is unaware of this and the camel will be returned." "
2008-05-19 01:39 < quanticle> http://www.sadlyno.com/wordpress/uploads/2008/05/europe2067.jpg
2008-05-19 01:40 < quanticle> ^ Lolwut
2008-05-19 01:40 < dquestions> hi
2008-05-19 01:40 < dquestions> anyone here good at seo
2008-05-19 01:41 < bumm13> seo?
2008-05-19 01:41 < Cyrius> search engine optimization
2008-05-19 01:41 < bumm13> ah
2008-05-19 01:41 * bumm13 ain't
2008-05-19 01:41 < Cyrius> although it usually means "attempting to manipulate the search results for money"
2008-05-19 01:42 < quanticle> dquestions: SEO is ethically questionable. Arguably, if your site is relevant to the search result, that's all the search engine optimization you need. Anything more smacks of gaming the system.
2008-05-19 01:43 < gwern> quanticle: looks like the product of an overfevered conservative imagination, where liberal europe succumbs to the muslim menace, and only stalwart russia stanchs the infection
2008-05-19 01:43 < quanticle> gwern: Good call. Source: http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/eurabia-fans-not-just-stupider-than-you-think/
2008-05-19 01:44 < quanticle> gwern: "They also think that although Iceland will become an Islamic state, Switzerland and, for some bizarre reason, the Czech Republic will remain “neutral”. And Germany will re-divide, with the old Federal Republic sliding into Islamic rule and the old DDR being a Russian protectorate."
2008-05-19 01:44 * gwern notes that the demongraphics aren't right for that much to go muslim like 2067
2008-05-19 01:45 < gwern> 'I’d much rather be K-selected than r-selected.' <-- very wise
2008-05-19 01:46 < quanticle> Indeed.
2008-05-19 01:46 < quanticle> "We certainly do not feel more negative or less positive about certain ethnic or religious minorities. Seeing a cartoon where Mohammed sodomizes Anne Frank makes us wish we hadn’t, but it doesn’t change our feelings about either."
2008-05-19 01:47 < quanticle> http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/new-cartoon-mayhem-in-the-netherlands/
2008-05-19 01:49 < Lubaf> Hey, anybody here up on template syntax?
2008-05-19 01:50 < Lubaf> [[Template:SonicGames]] is fucked up.
2008-05-19 01:50 < Danaman5> Does anyone know if there is a counter that counts how many new articles a user has created?
2008-05-19 01:50 < V`Ger> Lubaf: I'll take a look in a sec
2008-05-19 01:51 < Lubaf> Wait.
2008-05-19 01:51 < Lubaf> I've got it.
2008-05-19 01:51 < Barak4u> hei I got a question ... can anyone help me?
2008-05-19 01:51 < Broooooooce> Maybe Barak
2008-05-19 01:51 < Barak4u> How do I know how many people visted a specific wikipedia page on a daily basis?
2008-05-19 01:51 < Danaman5> what is your question?
2008-05-19 01:52 < Broooooooce> 'fraid I don't know.
2008-05-19 01:52 < gwern> Barak4u: no way to know for sure, but there is a rough hit counter based on statistics
2008-05-19 01:52 < gwern> pretty interesting
2008-05-19 01:52 * Lubaf fixed the problem on his own.
2008-05-19 01:52 < Lubaf> One bad edit.
2008-05-19 01:53 < Lubaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Sonic_games&diff=prev&oldid=213363475 <- The edit that caused the problems.
2008-05-19 01:54 < quanticle> Anyway.
2008-05-19 01:54 * quanticle off to bed
2008-05-19 01:54 < Lubaf> It appears to have been a valid edit... except for the whole, breaking the template thing.
2008-05-19 01:55 < Lubaf> I'd fix it, but I don't give a shit about the content dispute underlying the edit.
2008-05-19 01:56 < Lubaf> So I just reverted the whole damn thing.
2008-05-19 01:56 < Lubaf> Anyway.
2008-05-19 01:56 < Lubaf> How's Sonic Syndrome?
2008-05-19 02:08 < Alkivar> Neuromancer (2009) (pre-production)
2008-05-19 02:08 < Alkivar> with Hayden Christensen as Case
2008-05-19 02:08 < Alkivar> that should be... uhm... suck
2008-05-19 02:09 < Alkivar> to put it mildly
2008-05-19 02:10 < Lubaf> Alkivar: Not that much worse than the book, quite frankly.
2008-05-19 02:13 < bumm13> hiya uberpenguin
2008-05-19 02:13 < Lubaf> bumm13: Good morgan.
2008-05-19 02:17 < Enok|Walker> hay i need a public scolding
2008-05-19 02:19 * V`Ger scolds Enok|Walker
2008-05-19 02:20 < Enok|Walker> thanks
2008-05-19 02:20 < V`Ger> Enok|Walker: No more tearing holes in the space-time continuum, ya hear?
2008-05-19 02:21 * V`Ger is now going to bed, good night!
2008-05-19 02:37 < RobJ1981> hi
2008-05-19 02:40 < denelson83> Okay, who let Google into their driveway? http://theofftopic.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1301
2008-05-19 02:43 < bumm13> geez, three-car garage :P
2008-05-19 02:44 < bumm13> RobJ1981: hi
2008-05-19 02:45 < RobJ1981> whats up
2008-05-19 02:52 < bumm13> hiya Mike_H
2008-05-19 02:53 < bumm13> hi Wiangchan
2008-05-19 02:53 < Working_Cat> hi bumm13
2008-05-19 02:53 < bumm13> howdy
2008-05-19 03:20 < bumm13> hi Sky2042
2008-05-19 03:28 < Alkivar> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Canopy-AP-Backhaul.jpg <-- NOT PD claiming PD
2008-05-19 03:58 < Lycurgus> yello bumm13
2008-05-19 04:00 < Lycurgus> and Working_Cat
2008-05-19 04:01 < Broooooooce> Can I use an image from Flickr on a page I have created?
2008-05-19 04:01 < Broooooooce> pardon me, May I
2008-05-19 04:01 < Broooooooce> (altho can I kind of fits as I'd have to figure out how, but then, I'd be the only one able to answer that)
2008-05-19 04:02 < Lycurgus> Flickr has little to do with it unless they or someone there owns it
2008-05-19 04:03 < Broooooooce> I'll just email the guy
2008-05-19 04:36 < k_wifler> Hi, I would like an opinion about adding to the 'no original content' page
2008-05-19 04:36 < k_wifler> perhaps it would be good to add a link to some site for publishing original content?
2008-05-19 04:37 < Dcoetzee> I suggest making that suggestion on the associated talk page.
2008-05-19 04:38 < k_wifler> ok
2008-05-19 04:38 < k_wifler> is it bad if I never see the page ever again?
2008-05-19 04:39 < Dcoetzee> Er, I don't understand.
2008-05-19 04:39 < The359> If something is published
2008-05-19 04:39 < The359> It's no longer Original Content
2008-05-19 04:40 < Dcoetzee> Not exactly.
2008-05-19 04:40 < The359> well
2008-05-19 04:40 < Dcoetzee> Self-publication rarely meets the bar.
2008-05-19 04:40 < Dcoetzee> Nor do less reputable publications always suffice.
2008-05-19 04:40 < The359> I was thinking more about books
2008-05-19 04:40 < The359> But yes
2008-05-19 04:40 < The359> linking to a website where someone can put their original content
2008-05-19 04:40 < The359> Is useless
2008-05-19 04:41 < The359> Because we wouldn't allow that website to be a reference
2008-05-19 04:42 < The359> Unless it's like a blog published by the person that the article is about
2008-05-19 04:42 < The359> Then that's ok
2008-05-19 04:42 < The359> ish
2008-05-19 04:42 < nixeagle> The359: blogs usually go in the external links section. If the blog is the main page of the subject... then yes the blog should be linked.
2008-05-19 04:43 < The359> yes I know
2008-05-19 04:43 < The359> but I can think of instances where a blog can be used as a citation
2008-05-19 04:43 < k_wifler> I'm not talking about linking to content as a source, more as an alternate outlet, supposing the person wishes to vandalize a wiki page in anger
2008-05-19 04:43 < The359> For instance, if a person announces something
2008-05-19 04:43 < nixeagle> If we are pulling something the person said out of the article, and its from the blog, we quote the blog and reference it. Its one of the few times I can think that a blog is an ok source.
2008-05-19 04:44 < bogdan2005> hey
2008-05-19 04:44 < The359> we're not really here to provide people with playthings because they can't act mature, k_wifler
2008-05-19 04:44 < bogdan2005> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nino_Gonzales -- is this spam and if yes, should it be reverted?
2008-05-19 04:44 < nixeagle> Just I hate blogs personally as its usually not an indicator of importance
2008-05-19 04:45 < nixeagle> What someone says in their personal loudspeaker does not mean its exactly wanted in an encyclopedia. If other news organizations or many blogs pick it up, then it might be a good source.
2008-05-19 04:45 < The359> I merely listed a blog as an exemption from not allowing original content
2008-05-19 04:45 < The359> in certain cases
2008-05-19 04:45 < nixeagle> O.o if someone puts content in a blog... then uses that as an excuse to put it in wikipedia. Its still original content
2008-05-19 04:45 < The359> yes, I know
2008-05-19 04:45 < The359> I never said it was for every case
2008-05-19 04:45 < The359> read
2008-05-19 04:45 < nixeagle> I can't put 1 + 1 = 3 into my blog then cite it saying I have a source.
2008-05-19 04:46 < nixeagle> The359: give me a valid case.
2008-05-19 04:46 < The359> and no bogdan2005, it doesn't appear to be spam
2008-05-19 04:46 < The359> A celebrity's blog, they announce something, nixeagle. That can be used as a source.
2008-05-19 04:46 < bogdan2005> The359: I'm reverting him anyway.
2008-05-19 04:46 < nixeagle> The359: better to cite the news outlet
2008-05-19 04:46 < amidaniel> The359: In which case it's not original research ...
2008-05-19 04:46 < The359> ...then why the hell did you ask, bogdan2005?
2008-05-19 04:46 < nixeagle> hey amidaniel :)
2008-05-19 04:46 < bogdan2005> The359: he is adding that stuff to all those unrelated places?
2008-05-19 04:47 * amidaniel eats nixeagle
2008-05-19 04:47 < The359> revert the ones that aren't WikiProjects then, bogdan2005
2008-05-19 04:47 < The359> the WikiProjects are related
2008-05-19 04:47 < bogdan2005> The359: why would the Czech noticeboard be interested in a Philippine Wikipedia Community meetup?
2008-05-19 04:47 < k_wifler> would it be less objectionable to link to a wikipedia page about a company that publishes original content?
2008-05-19 04:47 < bogdan2005> or Romanian or 100 other noticeboards?
2008-05-19 04:48 < The359> again, why did you ask if you're just going to do it anyway, bogdan2005?
2008-05-19 04:48 < bogdan2005> The359: I wanted to see what others think :P
2008-05-19 04:48 < nixeagle> bogdan2005: well you got the result :P
2008-05-19 04:48 < Dcoetzee> k_wifler: I'd generally consider that a suspicious potential conflict of interest. Post to the talk page.
2008-05-19 04:48 < nixeagle> bogdan2005: I will say that cross spamming is usually bad unless the groups are similar
2008-05-19 04:48 * Mike_H smooches Dcoetzee.
2008-05-19 04:49 < Dcoetzee> Hey Mike.
2008-05-19 04:49 * Dcoetzee hugs Mike_H.
2008-05-19 04:49 < Dcoetzee> How is stuff?
2008-05-19 04:49 < The359> we're not here to advertise services, k_wifler
2008-05-19 04:49 < The359> We don't care where people go to write their original content, it's not our business
2008-05-19 04:49 < The359> we just don't want it here
2008-05-19 04:50 * nixeagle hates advertising, in an encyclopedia, its only worse :<
2008-05-19 04:50 < bogdan2005> The359: oh, well, I'll revert the Eastern European ones.
2008-05-19 04:50 < Dcoetzee> That said, our external links guidelines apply to links in articles, not project pages.
2008-05-19 04:51 < nixeagle> Dcoetzee: yeah you are right with that
2008-05-19 04:51 < Dcoetzee> The main reason to avoid spamming project pages is that, well, you'll get reverted. People won't think it improves the page.
2008-05-19 04:51 < The359> he was discussing putting this in the WP:ORIGINAL page
2008-05-19 04:51 < nixeagle> Dcoetzee: however folks can revert based on other policies and if not that then... COMMON SENSE
2008-05-19 04:51 < nixeagle> >.>
2008-05-19 04:51 < The359> k_wifler was, that is
2008-05-19 04:51 < Dcoetzee> Yup