freenode #wikipedia

2008-05-17 20:39 < On> A psychologue won't help.
2008-05-17 20:39 < bumm13> what article?
2008-05-17 20:39 < On> one sec.
2008-05-17 20:40 < Messedrocker> On, you have an interesting handle
2008-05-17 20:40 < Mike_H> bumm13: I need to do a copyedit of [[Laura Branigan]]
2008-05-17 20:40 < On> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_content_management_systems&action=history
2008-05-17 20:40 < Mike_H> I had to move the lead around a bit and cut things out and blah.
2008-05-17 20:40 < On> Its my real name.
2008-05-17 20:40 < Mike_H> now it looks like.
2008-05-17 20:40 < Mike_H> Laura Branigan (July 3, 1957 ? August 26, 2004) was a popular American singer and actress of Irish descent. She was best known for her 1982 platinum-selling single "Gloria," a major hit throughout the world which spent a record-setting 36 weeks on Billboard's Hot 100 and received a Grammy Award nomination in early 1983.
2008-05-17 20:40 < bumm13> :-)
2008-05-17 20:41 < On> It means *exual power in Hebrew lol.
2008-05-17 20:41 < On> Willnever forgive my parents for this one :)
2008-05-17 20:41 < bumm13> On: do you have a Wikipedia username?
2008-05-17 20:41 < On> I have many :(
2008-05-17 20:41 < On> Frustartion...
2008-05-17 20:41 < bumm13> no, I mean a *primary* username
2008-05-17 20:42 < bumm13> ok, you're the anon editor
2008-05-17 20:42 < bumm13> if you want to be taken seriously regarding article edits, don't edit anonymously
2008-05-17 20:43 < On> No, I did the contribution as a guest. And then came back. My name is On Elpeleg, and yes I know he uses that as an argument against me having a conflict in the past because I did not knwo the rules. But now, I know the rules.
2008-05-17 20:43 < bumm13> you're free to edit anonymously, but if a dispute over content arises, you have no means for stating your case
2008-05-17 20:43 < Sky2042> no means to stating the case?...
2008-05-17 20:44 < On> I only ask to check the article. It lists dozens of comemrcial sites as "free softwares", its complete madness!
2008-05-17 20:44 * Messedrocker wonders when the scribd guys are getting back to his email
2008-05-17 20:44 * kylu wonders what would happen if you fed IRC logs to an eliza...
2008-05-17 20:44 < On> Check the links to those sites... they say clearly, "contact us for prices".
2008-05-17 20:44 * Sky2042 thinks grues would be less scarier than an eliza fed with IRC logs.
2008-05-17 20:44 < bumm13> On: please show an example
2008-05-17 20:45 < On> i have 6 examples, went as far as from A-D and then the article got blocked.
2008-05-17 20:45 < On> One sec...
2008-05-17 20:45 < On> Aqua CMS
2008-05-17 20:46 < On> Aqua Free Trial License and not GPL
2008-05-17 20:46 < Lubaf> Take this job and shovel it...
2008-05-17 20:46 < On> Alfresco: GPL with FLOSS andnot just GPL (big difference!).
2008-05-17 20:47 < bumm13> it says right there that Aqua CMS is GPL
2008-05-17 20:47 < bumm13> and simply states that Alfresco uses GPL
2008-05-17 20:47 < On> Bricolage: also not GPL, it has Bricolage License (commercial)
2008-05-17 20:47 < On> Its not GPL
2008-05-17 20:47 < On> Its fully protected commercial license
2008-05-17 20:48 < On> CivicSpace-also false GPL
2008-05-17 20:48 < Lubaf> On: You ever hear of the phrase "Dual licensing"?
2008-05-17 20:48 < bumm13> On: no, Bricolage uses the BSD license
2008-05-17 20:48 < On> There is also tripple licensing
2008-05-17 20:48 < Lubaf> It's perfectly legal to release software under two licenses.
2008-05-17 20:48 < On> Also 3 and 4
2008-05-17 20:48 < bumm13> what is your point?
2008-05-17 20:49 < On> I checked the license on each of those, there is NO gpl there.
2008-05-17 20:49 < On> None whatever.
2008-05-17 20:49 < bumm13> I think your full of poo
2008-05-17 20:49 < bumm13> *you're
2008-05-17 20:49 < On> Only in WP it stans so.
2008-05-17 20:49 < On> I downloaded the files, untar unzipped them
2008-05-17 20:49 < On> I am telling the truth.
2008-05-17 20:50 < On> Drupal is TM, Creative Commons Attribution and not GPL.
2008-05-17 20:50 * DrSkullthumper turns On off (sorry, couldn't resist)
2008-05-17 20:51 < On> Ekklesia 360 CM: Free demo, contact for prices...
2008-05-17 20:51 < On> I am only at E now, hardly checked 10%.... and found 6 mistakes :)
2008-05-17 20:51 * Sky2042 turns DrSkullthumper on.
2008-05-17 20:52 < On> lol
2008-05-17 20:52 < DrSkullthumper> Oh hi Sky2042
2008-05-17 20:52 < julianna> which one is 'correct': 'bugfixes' or 'bug fixes'?
2008-05-17 20:52 < Sky2042> the latter.
2008-05-17 20:52 < On> Its typical Norwegian and German to connect words like that.
2008-05-17 20:53 < Messedrocker> yep
2008-05-17 20:53 < Messedrocker> in english, too, words tend to get smooshed together
2008-05-17 20:53 < Sky2042> on the English wikipedia?
2008-05-17 20:53 < Sky2042> :p
2008-05-17 20:53 < Messedrocker> in the english language
2008-05-17 20:53 < kylu> Messedrocker: Whydoyousaythat?
2008-05-17 20:53 < Messedrocker> that or people hyphenate
2008-05-17 20:53 < Sky2042> which does not make them correct, but i will concede the point.
2008-05-17 20:53 < julianna> interestingly, Google returns 2 550 000 for bugfixes
2008-05-17 20:54 < julianna> results for*
2008-05-17 20:54 < bumm13> hmm, Aqua CMS isn't GPL (as you stated)
2008-05-17 20:54 < On> http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexperts/faq/aboutwords/longestword
2008-05-17 20:54 < Sky2042> julianna: search for the exact string "bugfix" and "bug fix"
2008-05-17 20:54 < Sky2042> and not*
2008-05-17 20:55 < Sky2042> and then the other way around
2008-05-17 20:55 < Mike_H> According to Keith Harris of Rolling Stone magazine, "[Dion's] sentimentality is bombastic and defiant rather than demure and retiring....[she] stands at the end of the chain of drastic devolution that goes Aretha-Whitney-Mariah. Far from being an aberration, Dion actually stands as a symbol of a certain kind of pop sensibility?bigger is better, too much is never enough, and the riper the emotion the more true."[95]
2008-05-17 20:55 < Mike_H> That's a total burn on Celine.
2008-05-17 20:55 < rw> nothing is as it seems it is
2008-05-17 20:56 < julianna> there are about as many results for both forms
2008-05-17 20:56 < bumm13> On - why not just move the particular program listings from "Free and open source software" to "Proprietary"?
2008-05-17 20:57 < bumm13> Mike_H: Celine Dion is a cult leader ;)
2008-05-17 20:57 < Messedrocker> MY HEART WILL GOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOON
2008-05-17 20:57 < Messedrocker> OPRAH.
2008-05-17 20:57 < On> bumm13: I know CMS an GPL, because we break our head on the same issue with our script. We want it to be free open source, but we havetroubles with people "stealing" credits. I think FLOSS is the best solution. But this is not my issue, I want to clean the article. But theguy judges me for my fighst in the past.
2008-05-17 20:58 < On> bumm13: it has to be moved, so are atleast 1 dozen others, but I am blocked.
2008-05-17 20:58 < bumm13> User:Hu12 ?
2008-05-17 20:58 < Moro55> o_O
2008-05-17 20:58 * On <-- puppet, abuser, distrupter, troll,
2008-05-17 20:58 < On> Yes him.
2008-05-17 20:58 < On> He is also deleting any evidence from the discussion pages.
2008-05-17 20:59 < On> To make me look like all those things above.
2008-05-17 20:59 < bumm13> he really should have had someone else do that block, as he was involved in reverting your edits
2008-05-17 20:59 < Sky2042> ie, he was an involved party.
2008-05-17 20:59 < bumm13> yep
2008-05-17 20:59 < On> All of them, and the edits of my discussion notes.
2008-05-17 20:59 < On> I dont care about him.
2008-05-17 21:00 < On> I just want to those things to be fixed. He does not want to list webapp in english WP,fine. But he should allow corrections and stop calling them trolling.
2008-05-17 21:01 < bumm13> one thing I will say - it's not all that productive to get into trouble over a "List of..." page
2008-05-17 21:01 < On> CMS is my life (
2008-05-17 21:01 < bumm13> as they are merely listings of content that's not easily converted into regular article text
2008-05-17 21:01 < dioxid> hi
2008-05-17 21:01 < dioxid> can someon help me plzzz
2008-05-17 21:01 < bumm13> nonetheless, he should not have blocked you in that situation
2008-05-17 21:01 < On> Its allin one page in which my CMS is not notable enough (yet).
2008-05-17 21:01 < bumm13> (even as an anon editor)
2008-05-17 21:01 < On> I can accept that.
2008-05-17 21:02 < dioxid> need some help plzzz guys
2008-05-17 21:02 < dioxid> can u ?
2008-05-17 21:02 < On> But, I would never troll about the facts related to my life! (CMS).
2008-05-17 21:02 < dioxid> On ?
2008-05-17 21:02 < On> dioxid, please wait its my theray hour ;-)
2008-05-17 21:02 < dioxid> bumm13?
2008-05-17 21:02 < On> therapy lol
2008-05-17 21:02 < bumm13> On: you kept removing the Free Software Portal link, right?
2008-05-17 21:03 < dioxid> just one question
2008-05-17 21:03 < On> bumm13: true.
2008-05-17 21:03 < bumm13> that's why you got blocked
2008-05-17 21:03 < On> It does not belong together with a pricelist...
2008-05-17 21:03 < On> How can you have that with a price list?
2008-05-17 21:03 < On> It makes no sense.
2008-05-17 21:03 < bumm13> as long as it (free content) ties into some of those programs, then it's appropriate
2008-05-17 21:04 < bumm13> it's not an "all or nothing" situation
2008-05-17 21:04 < bumm13> (especially on a "List of" page)
2008-05-17 21:04 < On> But they have no free content.
2008-05-17 21:04 < On> They have "open surce" which is NOT free.
2008-05-17 21:04 < bumm13> that's not true
2008-05-17 21:04 < On> This is something else.
2008-05-17 21:04 < bumm13> that's largely a semantic argument, in this context
2008-05-17 21:04 < On> Free content of a program that costs 9000 usd?
2008-05-17 21:05 < dioxid> guys i have cfw 3,71m33-4, whant to run PSPTube how u can help mee
2008-05-17 21:05 < On> Hmmm... maybe I drop my cms, and do somethingabout it ! ;)
2008-05-17 21:05 < bumm13> the page is about "List of content management systems", not "List of only free content management systems"
2008-05-17 21:05 < bumm13> the .svg portal image applies, so don't remove it
2008-05-17 21:06 < On> It says: List_of_content_management_systems
2008-05-17 21:06 < Shiroi_Neko> Interesiting
2008-05-17 21:06 < bumm13> that's correct
2008-05-17 21:06 < Shiroi_Neko> The only way to edit wikipedia's controversial topics is if you are backed by a lobbist group
2008-05-17 21:06 < On> Nothingwrong with having them there too, its the misleading "free softwares portals", they are not free.
2008-05-17 21:07 < bumm13> dioxid: your last statement was largely incoherent
2008-05-17 21:07 < bumm13> On: no, it just means that some of them *are* free software
2008-05-17 21:07 < On> Shiroi: we have 6500 websites using our CMS, should I invite them to fight with Hu12?!!! lol
2008-05-17 21:07 < bumm13> *our* CMS?
2008-05-17 21:08 < On> Any member on our CMS is with us.
2008-05-17 21:08 < bumm13> what are you talking about?
2008-05-17 21:08 < On> Its another issue.
2008-05-17 21:08 < bumm13> well, stay with the issue at hand :-p
2008-05-17 21:09 < On> But this CMS will never be listed on English WP so its waste of time to discuss it.
2008-05-17 21:09 < bumm13> that image is there; don't remove it
2008-05-17 21:09 < bumm13> that's all, nothing complicated
2008-05-17 21:09 < On> Can I have my photo there instead? ;-)
2008-05-17 21:09 < bumm13> huh?
2008-05-17 21:09 < bumm13> no
2008-05-17 21:09 < On> ok :)
2008-05-17 21:09 < On> dont ant to scare anyone.
2008-05-17 21:09 < bumm13> that's good
2008-05-17 21:10 < dioxid> bumm13 plz bro help mee
2008-05-17 21:10 < bumm13> dioxid: with what?
2008-05-17 21:10 < On> Ok i go get some sleep. 3:15 am. How can I help editing without getting blocked? WILL NOT TOUCH THE IMG.
2008-05-17 21:10 < dioxid> psptube one 3.71m33-4
2008-05-17 21:10 < bumm13> okay, sweet dreams ;)
2008-05-17 21:10 < On> Just in short, do not want to step or anyone toes.
2008-05-17 21:10 < bumm13> dioxid: I have no idea what that is
2008-05-17 21:11 < bumm13> On - :)
2008-05-17 21:11 < On> grrrr... nightmares coming
2008-05-17 21:11 < dioxid> grrrr
2008-05-17 21:11 < dioxid> i that psp irc chat
2008-05-17 21:11 < bumm13> dioxid: speak coherently, it helps people understand you
2008-05-17 21:11 < bumm13> :p
2008-05-17 21:12 < Sky2042> Shiroi_Neko: huh?
2008-05-17 21:12 < Shiroi_Neko> huh
2008-05-17 21:12 < bumm13> PSPTube - "Watch YouTube on your PSP"
2008-05-17 21:12 < bumm13> (not sure what that has to do with IRC...)
2008-05-17 21:13 * kylu watches youtube on the DS. Not a PSP fan. *shrug*
2008-05-17 21:13 < Sky2042> Shiroi_Neko: your comment on lobbist groups?
2008-05-17 21:14 * Mike_H dances with kylu.
2008-05-17 21:14 * Mike_H NP: Mariah Carey - Honey (1997)
2008-05-17 21:14 < fossa> anybody here, who speaks Albanian?
2008-05-17 21:14 < Mike_H> fossa: minerale does
2008-05-17 21:14 < bumm13> wow, that's a tough one there
2008-05-17 21:14 < bumm13> ah yes, he does
2008-05-17 21:14 < Mike_H> minerale: you do, right?
2008-05-17 21:15 < bumm13> he may be asleep
2008-05-17 21:15 < bumm13> it's 3:15 am in Albania
2008-05-17 21:15 < Mike_H> bumm13: rofl, honey
2008-05-17 21:16 < Mike_H> he lives in Atlanta
2008-05-17 21:16 < Mike_H> it's 9:15
2008-05-17 21:16 < Mike_H> :)
2008-05-17 21:16 < fossa> minerale: "yeni dönem", I was told by Shiroi_Neko Means something like "new beginning" in Turkish. Is it the same in Albanian?
2008-05-17 21:16 < bumm13> ok, I wasn't sure :p
2008-05-17 21:16 < On> Where do I add: unblock|your reason here
2008-05-17 21:16 < bumm13> maybe he's in front of his TV drinking Coke
2008-05-17 21:16 < On> In my discussion page?
2008-05-17 21:16 < Shiroi_Neko> Sky2042 I just am seeing wikipedia get owned by llobyist groups
2008-05-17 21:17 < Shiroi_Neko> we only see the more careless ones
2008-05-17 21:17 < bumm13> On: any place should work
2008-05-17 21:17 < On> ok
2008-05-17 21:17 < Mike_H> fossa: I don't think he's at his computer right now :<
2008-05-17 21:17 < Sky2042> Shiroi_Neko: ah
2008-05-17 21:17 < bumm13> don't expect to be unblocked, though (IP edits)
2008-05-17 21:17 < Shiroi_Neko> If a government organization or lobby group backs me up I can edit articles with a pov I like
2008-05-17 21:18 * bumm13 NP: AC/DC - Shoot to Thrill (1980)
2008-05-17 21:18 < Shiroi_Neko> its becoming increasingly difficult for regular users to edit
2008-05-17 21:18 < Shiroi_Neko> regular users are pressured and binded by policy to behave themselves
2008-05-17 21:18 < Shiroi_Neko> lobyists can ignore all policy
2008-05-17 21:18 < Sky2042> Shiroi_Neko: how so?
2008-05-17 21:19 < Shiroi_Neko> Sky2042 okay consider this
2008-05-17 21:19 < Shiroi_Neko> what would happen to you if you alone revrt wared?
2008-05-17 21:19 * Sky2042 considers this.
2008-05-17 21:19 < Sky2042> Shiroi_Neko: ah.
2008-05-17 21:19 < Shiroi_Neko> or as a group?
2008-05-17 21:20 < Shiroi_Neko> group revert warring can be controled
2008-05-17 21:20 < Shiroi_Neko> but even if you block alla counts an uninvolved 3rd account will continue to edit
2008-05-17 21:20 < Sky2042> is there a specific case example you have (preferably that you're an univolved party)
2008-05-17 21:20 < Shiroi_Neko> under lobyist control
2008-05-17 21:20 < Shiroi_Neko> but you would be effectively branded as a bad revert warrer
2008-05-17 21:20 * Sky2042 is just wondering.
2008-05-17 21:20 < Shiroi_Neko> I dont have a spesific example
2008-05-17 21:21 < Shiroi_Neko> the camera case got me thinking
2008-05-17 21:22 < On> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Oe65
2008-05-17 21:22 < On> :)
2008-05-17 21:22 < On> Now I can sleep!!!!
2008-05-17 21:22 < bumm13> \o/
2008-05-17 21:22 < zocky> fossa, I don't speak albanian, but turkish is more closely related to korean than to albanian
2008-05-17 21:23 < bumm13> to Korean?
2008-05-17 21:23 < Mike_H> bumm13: The Uralic and Altaic language groups.
2008-05-17 21:23 < bumm13> Korean doesn't even use an alphabet :P
2008-05-17 21:23 < Mike_H> Hungarian and Mongolian are also related to Korean.
2008-05-17 21:23 < zocky> there's no reason to expect that anything would be automatically the same in albanian and turkish
2008-05-17 21:23 < Mike_H> and on a less related note, Finnish.
2008-05-17 21:23 < bumm13> Korean is neither Uralic nor Altaic
2008-05-17 21:23 < zocky> Mike_H, hungarian is closer to finnish
2008-05-17 21:23 < fossa> zocky: Problem is: The Osmans ruled Albania for a couple of months, so there are surely some Turkicisms in Albanian
2008-05-17 21:24 < Mike_H> bumm13: You're looking at it in a black and white way.
2008-05-17 21:24 < Mike_H> You need to look at how the languages evolved, as opposed to how they are today.
2008-05-17 21:24 < bumm13> I am
2008-05-17 21:24 < Mike_H> The genealogical classification of the Korean language is debated. Some linguists place it in the Altaic language family, while others consider it to be a language isolate.
2008-05-17 21:25 < bumm13> Albanian is considered a very-isolated member of the greater Indo-European group
2008-05-17 21:25 < Demi> i thought the turkic-koren connection was more of a cute idea than an actual established thing
2008-05-17 21:25 < Sky2042> isn't it basically chinese?...
2008-05-17 21:25 < bumm13> Demi: it probably is
2008-05-17 21:25 < zocky> Unclassified: language isolate or Altaic language(controversial)
2008-05-17 21:25 * Sky2042 wonders.
2008-05-17 21:25 < bumm13> Sky2042: Korean? no
2008-05-17 21:25 < Mike_H> Demi: It depends.
2008-05-17 21:25 < Mike_H> Korean is a language that essentially has no strong "family."
2008-05-17 21:25 < Shiroi_Neko> Demi not quite
2008-05-17 21:25 < bumm13> as for Turkish, the Ottoman Turks originated from what is now Turkmenistan
2008-05-17 21:26 < bumm13> I fail to see a connection to Korea
2008-05-17 21:26 < Mike_H> although I have read evidence that would strongly back it up for me that links it to Uralic and Altaic.
2008-05-17 21:26 < zocky> bumm13, it's not THAT far away
2008-05-17 21:26 < Shiroi_Neko> there are turkish words in Japanese and vice versa
2008-05-17 21:26 < zocky> and koreans came to korea from somewhere
2008-05-17 21:26 < Shiroi_Neko> central asia traded a lot of words and cultire
2008-05-17 21:26 < bumm13> we all came from somewhere
2008-05-17 21:26 < gwern> 'Naturally, Meier did what anyone else would after being insulted on the internet: she immediately hanged herself in her closet.' <-- yeah, that about sums it up
2008-05-17 21:26 < Mike_H> zocky: right, for example, from China and what would be now Mongolia.
2008-05-17 21:26 < Shiroi_Neko> mongolia...
2008-05-17 21:26 < Sky2042> gwern: lololol
2008-05-17 21:26 < bumm13> lingustics isn't always a simple "connect the dots" notion
2008-05-17 21:27 < Sky2042> gwern: too soon, imo
2008-05-17 21:27 < Shiroi_Neko> poor bastards are stuck between communists
2008-05-17 21:27 < bumm13> both Japanese and Korean were influenced heavily by Chinese, but are not actually related to Chinese
2008-05-17 21:27 < gwern> 'Suicide is crime, is it not?
2008-05-17 21:27 < gwern> Encouraging someone to commit a crime is also crime, I would have thought.'
2008-05-17 21:27 < Mike_H> Since the publication of the article of Ramstedt in 1926, many linguists support the hypothesis that Korean can be classified as an Altaic language, or as a relative of proto-Altaic. Korean is similar to Altaic languages in that they both lack certain grammatical elements, including number, gender, articles, fusional morphology, voice, and relative pronouns (Kim Namkil).
2008-05-17 21:27 < Shiroi_Neko> Suicide is crime punishable by death
2008-05-17 21:27 < Demi> gwern - really? because that's not what happened at all.
2008-05-17 21:28 < Mike_H> Sergei Starostin (1991) found about 25% of potential cognates in the Japanese-Korean 100-word Swadesh list, which places these two languages closer together than other possible members of the Altaic family.[5]
2008-05-17 21:28 < Demi> gwern - she wasn't "insulted on the internet."
2008-05-17 21:28 < zocky> Mike_H, that's a bit wishy-washy
2008-05-17 21:28 < zocky> Mike_H, sounds like something that a person who doesn't actually understand a language would say, but then again it's 1926
2008-05-17 21:28 < bumm13> that's assuming they're Altaic to begin with
2008-05-17 21:28 < gwern> Demi: really. do explain
2008-05-17 21:28 < bumm13> (which is dubious)
2008-05-17 21:29 < zocky> I don't really know about korean and turkish, but the fact that two languages lack something that english/latin/IE languages have doesn't make them automatically related
2008-05-17 21:29 < Demi> gwern - what's to explain? if you want to "sum it up" go read something about it.
2008-05-17 21:29 < Mike_H> zocky: Altaic is a sweeping language family to begin with.
2008-05-17 21:29 < bumm13> I don't see much known history that connects Central Asia to Korea to support the notion of the languages being related
2008-05-17 21:30 < Mike_H> It would be essentially usurping the current families "Turkic" and "Mongolic"
2008-05-17 21:30 < bumm13> linguistics can't simply be about "patterns" and "similarities"
2008-05-17 21:30 < Mike_H> so under the definition of "Altaic," Korean would be in the same family as Turkish and Mongolian. How close of a bond they have is in dispute.
2008-05-17 21:30 < zocky> bumm13, the history is clearly there. koreans are on the outskirts of the steppes, and turks are from the steppes
2008-05-17 21:30 < gwern> Demi: no, it's just that I've read a fair proportion of the coverage, and 'insulted over the internet' strikes me as a fair summary of the message
2008-05-17 21:30 < gwern> and I'm wondering what on earth makes you think different
2008-05-17 21:31 < bumm13> in what time period?
2008-05-17 21:31 < zocky> it's not farming country. most people were nomads and moved around quite a lot.
2008-05-17 21:31 < bumm13> you can have people live near each other with totally-unrelated languages (like in New Guinea)
2008-05-17 21:32 < zocky> the distances are not as large as the same distances would be in e.g. europe
2008-05-17 21:32 < bumm13> (not saying this is such a case)
2008-05-17 21:32 < Mike_H> Well, Korea in its beginnings was a farming country.
2008-05-17 21:32 < zocky> yes, but people in new guinea don't move around
2008-05-17 21:32 < Mike_H> When did they become feudal?
2008-05-17 21:32 < Mike_H> around the same time as Japan?
2008-05-17 21:32 < Demi> gwern - posing as a trusted friend, getting people in common you know to attest to the reality of that friend and then telling someone to kill themselves is not "insulting them."
2008-05-17 21:32 < bumm13> you could say (by those notions) that certain Inuit and Alaska Native languages should be related to Turkish and Korean
2008-05-17 21:32 < bumm13> (which they aren't)
2008-05-17 21:33 < gwern> Demi: nobody becomes a trusted friend over the internet in a few weeks; and calling their existence worthless and telling them to kill themself is certainly an insult
2008-05-17 21:33 < Mike_H> There wasn't large-scale migration from Mongolia to Alaska (for the obvious reasons).
2008-05-17 21:33 < zocky> Koreans are believed to be descendents of Altaic-[5][6] or proto-Altaic[7]-speaking tribes, linking them with Mongolians, Tungusics, Turkics, and other Central Asians. Archaeological evidence suggest proto-Koreans were Altaic-language-speaking migrants from south-central Siberia[8], who populated ancient Korea in successive waves from neolithic age to Bronze Age[9]., wikipedia claims
2008-05-17 21:33 < gwern> Demi: as the \b\-tards would say, be an hero...
2008-05-17 21:34 < Demi> gwern - if you can't see the distinction, then you are repugnant and pitiful.
2008-05-17 21:34 < zocky> bumm13, all the languages (apart from a few newly-invented creoles) are ultimately related
2008-05-17 21:34 < Mike_H> and of course "south-central Siberia" is either the current land of Mongolia
2008-05-17 21:34 < Mike_H> or the land just above Mongolia.
2008-05-17 21:34 < bumm13> The "Three Kingdoms of Korea" period only dates back to 57 BC(E)
2008-05-17 21:34 < bumm13> (for known history)
2008-05-17 21:34 < Demi> gwern - and if you can't imagine the situation, then you have a failure of imagination.
2008-05-17 21:34 < Demi> gwern - but your failure doesn't make a ridiculous inaccuracy accurate, though you may fantasize it to be so.
2008-05-17 21:34 < zocky> it's hard or impossible to deduce the ancient relationships, but people obviously spoke a language before they radiated from chromosomal eden
2008-05-17 21:34 < Mike_H> zocky: I think what throws people off with the Korean-Turkish possible connection is that Korean is seen as very connected to Mongolian
2008-05-17 21:35 < Mike_H> and Mongolian and Turkish have connections between their two languages.
2008-05-17 21:35 < Mike_H> So they think A will equal C
2008-05-17 21:35 < Mike_H> as it were.
2008-05-17 21:36 < Alkivar> so Narnia 2 is a decent flick
2008-05-17 21:36 < gwern> Demi: nice ad hominem; maybe I have some crazy viewpoint where you aren't 100% responsible for everything that casually traces back in any form to you; and maybe I've been reading crazy facebook pages where people are outrageously insulting. for an online insult, saying 'go kill yourself' is pretty damn tame
2008-05-17 21:36 < bumm13> for Turkmenistan, Alexander apparently conquered that area (330 BC(E)), which later became the base for the Parthians
2008-05-17 21:36 < Alkivar> gwern: how about die in a fire you arrogant bitch?
2008-05-17 21:36 < gwern> not to mention the prosecuted woman apparently wasn't even the one who sent the final message...
2008-05-17 21:36 < Alkivar> you dont see that often enough
2008-05-17 21:37 < bumm13> Mike_H: yeah, which isn't the correct method of determining such things
2008-05-17 21:37 < zocky> On the other hand, Korean people in the former USSR, who refer to themselves as Koryo-saram (also Goryeoin [고려인; 高麗人; literally, "Goryeo person(s)"]) call the language Goryeomal (고려말; 高麗말).
2008-05-17 21:37 < zocky> would that former USSR be anything else but russia?
2008-05-17 21:37 < gwern> Alkivar: no thank you. I had a tough enough skin not to be bothered by such ill-wishing when I started online. Like when I was 7 or whatever
2008-05-17 21:38 * gwern notes that I have never committed suicide...
2008-05-17 21:39 < bumm13> there's formidable physical geographic obstacles around modern-day Iran, Afghanistan and towards the Himalayas
2008-05-17 21:39 < bumm13> *there are
2008-05-17 21:39 < gwern> zocky: maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but couldn't 'in the former USSR' mean any of a dozen or more present-day nations?
2008-05-17 21:39 < gwern> it fragmented quite a bit
2008-05-17 21:39 < zocky> gwern, yes, but only russia is anywhere near korea
2008-05-17 21:39 < gwern> even if you only count the internationally recognized ones (I think georgia and russia are feuding over one or two unofficial nations right now, actually)
2008-05-17 21:39 < bumm13> in ancient times, I doubt there were any ethnic Russians in what is now the Russian Far East
2008-05-17 21:40 < zocky> bumm13, there weren't ethnic koreans either, but meh
2008-05-17 21:40 < bumm13> I already said when Korea's first notion of identity was :-)
2008-05-17 21:40 < bumm13> (c. 57 BC(E))
2008-05-17 21:41 < zocky> bumm13, who knows what language they spoke, what their culture was, etc.
2008-05-17 21:41 < bumm13> exactly
2008-05-17 21:41 < bumm13> if someone knows, it isn't me ;)
2008-05-17 21:41 < zocky> they weren't the same people with modern koreans in any useful sense
2008-05-17 21:41 < bumm13> and that's the kicker, language/culture is malleable over time
2008-05-17 21:41 < bumm13> sometimes more so, sometimes less so
2008-05-17 21:41 < gwern> eh. any modern nation's ethnic group has grown to the point where it has expanded far beyond its 'original' boundaries and has exterminated/absored the 'natives'. at some point, you just have to go post-modern and say the categorizations of nation/race/ethnicity don't work well in the real world
2008-05-17 21:42 < bumm13> the fact that modern-day China has had as much cultural continuity as it has is rather remarkable
2008-05-17 21:42 < bumm13> (partly due to geography, periods of isolationism, etc.)
2008-05-17 21:42 < bumm13> still changed a lot over time
2008-05-17 21:43 < bumm13> (splitting, recombining, etc.)
2008-05-17 21:43 < zocky> china is like europe, really
2008-05-17 21:43 < gwern> bumm13: yeah, and it's a great example of what I mean: centuries of calculated expansion and conversion. this recent thing with tibet is interesting mostly because it's taking place in modern times where it can be documented
2008-05-17 21:43 < bumm13> in a sense
2008-05-17 21:43 < corky> ah gees, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kari_Byron ... 4chan guys changed it to 2008, can anyone correct this?
2008-05-17 21:43 < zocky> a bunch of somewhat related peoples with a few totally unrelated ones in between, connected by common geography and history
2008-05-17 21:44 < corky> I can't find anything on the web that she died, nor can i on CNN, or google news
2008-05-17 21:44 < Messedrocker> fixed
2008-05-17 21:44 < bumm13> most ethnic Europeans were once tribal people :)
2008-05-17 21:44 < corky> Messedrocker, you might want to chat with the IP lol
2008-05-17 21:44 < bumm13> silly barbarians ;)
2008-05-17 21:44 < Messedrocker> corky, that won't be necessary
2008-05-17 21:44 < Messedrocker> wait
2008-05-17 21:44 < Messedrocker> what IP?
2008-05-17 21:45 * Messedrocker sees no anon editors on Kari Byron
2008-05-17 21:45 < corky> the guy that changed "born [date]" to "197x-2008".. really annoying
2008-05-17 21:45 < Messedrocker> that guy was signed in
2008-05-17 21:45 < Messedrocker> anyways
2008-05-17 21:45 < Messedrocker> let's not give him the dignity of recognizing his vandalism
2008-05-17 21:46 < bumm13> the story of [[Anacharsis]] is kind of interesting
2008-05-17 21:46 < Messedrocker> getting a stern warning is how these trolls get their kicks
2008-05-17 21:46 < Messedrocker> i believe vandalism should be reverted as swiftly and silently as possible
2008-05-17 21:46 < Messedrocker> make vandalism as unrewarding as possible
2008-05-17 21:47 < corky> oh.. that can to.. i am the type of guy that IF he has an IP that messed up his site (which i have), i'll ip ban him with ,htaccess :')
2008-05-17 21:47 < corky> oh.. and report it to his ISP :P
2008-05-17 21:47 < geniice> Messedrocker thus test series should be dull and inhuman
2008-05-17 22:13 < Messedrocker> Senator WOODY JENKINS!
2008-05-17 22:19 < Mike5> that's a lot of references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists
2008-05-17 22:21 < Messedrocker> a stupid amount of references for an equally stupid list
2008-05-17 22:21 < gwern> 'Arriving in Athens about 589 BCE, he came to the house of Solon, philosopher and lawgiver, and said, "I have traveled here from afar to make you my friend." Solon replied, "It's better to make friends at home." Thereupon the Scythian replied, "Then it is necessary for you, being at home, to make friends with me." Solon laughed and accepted him as his friend.'
2008-05-17 22:23 < Sky2042> Mike5: [[WP:BLP]]
2008-05-17 22:24 < Messedrocker> holy moley
2008-05-17 22:24 < Messedrocker> how did scribd know the copyright license of the doc i just uploaded
2008-05-17 22:24 < Sky2042> however, i agree with Messedrocker that that is indeed a stupid list.
2008-05-17 22:28 < Mike5> even more references http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Barack_Obama_presidential_campaign_endorsements
2008-05-17 22:31 < Sky2042> Mike5: was that for irony factor or something?...
2008-05-17 22:31 < Mike5> not at all
2008-05-17 22:31 < Sky2042> ok, double checking
2008-05-17 22:32 < Sky2042> holy...
2008-05-17 23:07 < xbladex007> hi
2008-05-17 23:09 < Werdna> what language is tr?
2008-05-17 23:10 < kylu> turkik
2008-05-17 23:10 < kylu> err, wow, spell ftw.
2008-05-17 23:11 < Messedrocker> WoW spell FTW?
2008-05-17 23:13 < Sky2042> hmm, css q
2008-05-17 23:14 < Sky2042> wait, nvm
2008-05-17 23:15 < Sky2042> argh
2008-05-17 23:17 < Sky2042> yay
2008-05-17 23:18 < Lubaf> Hillary Clinton is insane.
2008-05-17 23:18 < Lubaf> Delusional.
2008-05-17 23:18 < The359> what now?
2008-05-17 23:18 < Lubaf> Living in a world with no connection to reality.
2008-05-17 23:18 < Messedrocker> no lubby thats me
2008-05-17 23:20 < CrazyChemGuy> oh, MAN I really want to bake a loaf of bread.
2008-05-17 23:20 < CrazyChemGuy> Three hour wikibreak!
2008-05-17 23:21 < The359> {{justdoit}}
2008-05-17 23:27 < OilCrusher> :)
2008-05-17 23:38 < Dcoetzee> Hey all.
2008-05-17 23:53 < gwern> "Thanks first for the forebearance: to Mike Brander, one of the nicest guys you could hope to meet, for not sueing me after I inadvertently named a psychopath after him in the last book." <-- best. acknowledgement. evar.
2008-05-17 23:58 < Dcoetzee> gwern: Heh.
2008-05-18 00:03 < WonRyong> hi
2008-05-18 00:04 < Dcoetzee> Hi WonRyong, how are you?
2008-05-18 00:04 < WonRyong> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Candidates/Submissions
2008-05-18 00:04 < WonRyong> I see this page
2008-05-18 00:04 < WonRyong> I don't know about it.
2008-05-18 00:05 < WonRyong> en: community's informal consensus...do you know?
2008-05-18 00:05 < WonRyong> who is famous?
2008-05-18 00:06 < Legoktm> kmweber
2008-05-18 00:06 < Legoktm> join #wikipedia-en
2008-05-18 00:06 < WonRyong> ah
2008-05-18 00:07 < Dcoetzee> WonRyong: Not sure I understand your question?
2008-05-18 00:10 < Alkivar> can someone tell me why this perfectly valid stub got deleted?
2008-05-18 00:10 < Alkivar> http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:EDJGezNKC_0J:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_%28film%29+Challenger+Film&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
2008-05-18 00:10 < Alkivar> it had 3 references even
2008-05-18 00:11 < Legoktm> what did the deletion log say?
2008-05-18 00:12 < gwern> Alkivar: didn't you hear? they added a CSD 13 'wikipedia has enough articles on that kinda stuff'
2008-05-18 00:13 < Dcoetzee> Heh
2008-05-18 00:14 < Dcoetzee> Alkivar: Click the "deletion log" link on the page.
2008-05-18 00:14 < Dcoetzee> It was PRODed.
2008-05-18 00:14 < Dcoetzee> By Djbj16.
2008-05-18 00:14 < gwern> ouch. the ignominy
2008-05-18 00:14 < Dcoetzee> Guy says: This article is about a film not yet in production and should not be a stand alone article per [[Wikipedia:Notability (films)]]. It can be recreated if and when it start filming.
2008-05-18 00:17 < gwern> huh. so apparently the notability standards have usurped crystalball
2008-05-18 00:17 < gwern> wonder when that happened
2008-05-18 00:17 < Messedrocker> hello piley
2008-05-18 00:18 < Dcoetzee> If that is what Notability (films) says, the place to dispute it would be that talk page.
2008-05-18 00:18 < Dcoetzee> Seeing as it was just a PROD though, recreation is fine.
2008-05-18 00:18 < Dcoetzee> I'll send the wikitext to anyone who wants it.
2008-05-18 00:21 < Messedrocker> hi cut-sea-uh
2008-05-18 00:21 < Dcoetzee> Messedrocker!
2008-05-18 00:21 * Dcoetzee hugs.
2008-05-18 00:22 < Dcoetzee> You remember roughly how to pronounce my name.
2008-05-18 00:22 < Dcoetzee> How are you?
2008-05-18 00:22 < Messedrocker> fine
2008-05-18 00:22 * Messedrocker is currently playing with a Scribd Developer account
2008-05-18 00:23 < Dcoetzee> Fun. What's Scribd?
2008-05-18 00:23 < Messedrocker> http://scribd.com
2008-05-18 00:26 < Dcoetzee> Messedrocker: Cool. A very general idea.
2008-05-18 00:34 < minerale> fossa: I don't speak turkish
2008-05-18 00:34 < minerale> mike_h: sorry..
2008-05-18 00:35 < minerale> fossa: oh, albanian, what is it that you need?
2008-05-18 00:36 < minerale> "Yeni d?nem" -- I guess you wrote "Yeni denem" -- does not mean anything in albanian
2008-05-18 00:42 < Mike_H> fossa: are you there?
2008-05-18 00:51 * Lucifer_Cat is looose
2008-05-18 00:51 * Dcoetzee flees!
2008-05-18 00:52 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle
2008-05-18 00:54 < FastLizard4|away> omg
2008-05-18 00:54 * FastLizard4|away saw a California license plate reading "5THE359"
2008-05-18 00:54 * FastLizard4|away is not kidding
2008-05-18 00:54 < Messedrocker> neat
2008-05-18 00:54 * Dcoetzee gets the joke this time around. ;-)
2008-05-18 00:58 < Lucifer_Cat> FastLizard4|away is fat
2008-05-18 00:59 < Dcoetzee> No, he's Fast
2008-05-18 01:00 < Messedrocker> super mario world's end song is great
2008-05-18 01:01 < Rinn> Yes it is.
2008-05-18 01:01 < Messedrocker> i like how it slows down
2008-05-18 01:02 < Messedrocker> THEN IT GETS FASTER!
2008-05-18 01:02 < Rinn> Wild!
2008-05-18 01:02 < Messedrocker> it gets faster for the character listings
2008-05-18 01:02 < Messedrocker> to reveal that, indeed
2008-05-18 01:02 < Messedrocker> every last bugger has a NAME
2008-05-18 01:02 < Messedrocker> even BALL 'N CHAIN
2008-05-18 01:03 < Species8472> any experienced editor that happens to know proper ways for creating and linking to a list of news articles for a wikipedia article?
2008-05-18 01:03 < Rinn> I always thought showing all the enemies' names at the end of the game was really cool and more games should do that.
2008-05-18 01:04 < Lucifer_Cat> http://qc.createdebate.com/img/blog_article_images/disagreement-hierarchy.jpg
2008-05-18 01:04 < Messedrocker> Species8472, which article?
2008-05-18 01:04 < Species8472> a homeschooling article
2008-05-18 01:05 < Messedrocker> well i suppose a list of links would be fine
2008-05-18 01:05 * Lucifer_Cat pulls Rinn 's leg
2008-05-18 01:05 < Messedrocker> Rinn, BANZAI BILL!
2008-05-18 01:05 < Dcoetzee> Super Mario World was great.
2008-05-18 01:05 < Lucifer_Cat> > Emily is a busty, pink-haired policewoman who only appears in Angel Blade episode 2. She tries to capture Colonel but gets raped in the process.
2008-05-18 01:05 < Species8472> I currently have it like this: http://pastebin.ca/1021606
2008-05-18 01:06 < Lucifer_Cat> she has gigantic breasts that are constantly swollen and overloaded with milk, that self-lactate, having her breasts pumped while having sex with her minions, drinking from her own breasts, and simply nursing her minions like babies.
2008-05-18 01:06 < Dcoetzee> It's probably the most secret-heavy Mario game.
2008-05-18 01:06 < Werdna> Lucifer_Cat: o__O
2008-05-18 01:06 < Dcoetzee> Almost every level has something secret, and it has a whole secret world.
2008-05-18 01:06 < Species8472> but the number look a bit weird, should I make the news article titles into links?
2008-05-18 01:06 < Dcoetzee> Gives it a lot of replayability.
2008-05-18 01:06 < Messedrocker> Species8472, pardon the inanity in here. Also, you're better off writing about these articles, and then citing them by doing <ref>[http://articleurl Article Title] Access Date</ref>
2008-05-18 01:07 < Lucifer_Cat> Werdna: hey its on WP
2008-05-18 01:07 < Werdna> Lucifer_Cat: link plz
2008-05-18 01:07 < Lucifer_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Blade
2008-05-18 01:08 < Species8472> Messedrocker: I'm not sure if it would make me better of writing about them, although I could do it. I merely want to present a list supporting the article section.
2008-05-18 01:08 < Messedrocker> well if you don't feel like writing about them, I think it'd be appropriate to put them in an External Links section
2008-05-18 01:08 < Messedrocker> at the bottom of the article
2008-05-18 01:09 < Messedrocker> <Dcoetzee> It's probably the most secret-heavy Mario game. << indeed. The secrets in Super Mario Galaxy were too exposed for my tastes. They should've had those on top of REALLY secret things.
2008-05-18 01:09 * Dcoetzee agrees.
2008-05-18 01:09 < Messedrocker> imagine if SMG had a "hidden nebula" or something
2008-05-18 01:09 < Messedrocker> like special zone
2008-05-18 01:09 < Species8472> I do feel like writing about them, and I will add some highlights at the bottom of the list, however I don't think a completely detailed list suits the article. It's long enough already :)
2008-05-18 01:09 < Messedrocker> heh
2008-05-18 01:13 < Krimpet> Galaxy was fun for me at first, but I really lost interest after beating Bowser
2008-05-18 01:14 < Messedrocker> i have some 97 stars in that game
2008-05-18 01:14 < Messedrocker> all of the low-hanging fruit has been picked
2008-05-18 01:14 < Dcoetzee> I didn't. I got all the stars.
2008-05-18 01:14 < Krimpet> yeah, same with me
2008-05-18 01:14 < Messedrocker> the remaining 23 levels -- I don't want to play
2008-05-18 01:14 < Dcoetzee> Some of the final levels were really hard.
2008-05-18 01:14 < Cyrius> Messedrocker: it gets worse =)
2008-05-18 01:15 < Rinn> I got all of the stars and then got most of them with Luigi before I got bored.
2008-05-18 01:15 < Cyrius> cosmic luigi was a bitch
2008-05-18 01:15 < Krimpet> having to wait around for a specific comet to pop up to do it was also kinda dull
2008-05-18 01:16 < Dcoetzee> Krimpet: Um, you never have to wait for comets.
2008-05-18 01:16 < Dcoetzee> Krimpet: Just use the star dude who rotates them.
2008-05-18 01:16 < Messedrocker> Snackidee... snackaday... SNACKI-DIDDLY-DOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
2008-05-18 01:16 * Dcoetzee laughs.
2008-05-18 01:16 < AdamBishop> man, Super Mario Galaxy is seriously hindering me from getting any work done
2008-05-18 01:17 < Krimpet> eh, whatev. I've moved my Wii resources to Kart now. :p
2008-05-18 01:17 < Dcoetzee> Yes, that has to be one of the more bizarre Galaxy quotes.
2008-05-18 01:17 < Messedrocker> it ain't GameSpot Game of the Year for nothing
2008-05-18 01:17 < Messedrocker> Krimpet, me likewise :D
2008-05-18 01:17 < AdamBishop> the Simpsons game is also pretty cool
2008-05-18 01:17 < bumm13> hiya AdamBishop
2008-05-18 01:18 < Krimpet> unlocking Mii Outfit B will be the next impossible endeavor for me to give up on. :)
2008-05-18 01:18 < AdamBishop> hey bumm
2008-05-18 01:18 < Rinn> I'm still on Brawl. If the length of time I played Melee was any indication, I will be on Brawl for quite some time.
2008-05-18 01:19 < Messedrocker> brawl has a great rendition of the melee theme
2008-05-18 01:19 < Dcoetzee> I should add you guys on Brawl.
2008-05-18 01:19 * bumm13 stopped playing modern video games around 1994 :-p
2008-05-18 01:19 < Dcoetzee> What are your console IDs?
2008-05-18 01:19 < Messedrocker> hell if i know
2008-05-18 01:19 < Krimpet> I was surprised how tough Jigglypuff was to unlock on Brawl. pretty much the opposite of the last two
2008-05-18 01:20 < Messedrocker> Super Smash Bros Brawl has a bad case of overusing the same tune
2008-05-18 01:20 < Messedrocker> luckily that fact is not reflected in the gameplay
2008-05-18 01:21 < Krimpet> if only the Wii let you play your own music over the games
2008-05-18 01:21 < Messedrocker> like the xbox 360?
2008-05-18 01:21 < Krimpet> ah, yeah
2008-05-18 01:21 < Rinn> Brawl has some extensive music settings, though.
2008-05-18 01:22 < Krimpet> it does have that SD slot on the front, even
2008-05-18 01:22 < Dcoetzee> Random link: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palace/6314/intro.html
2008-05-18 01:22 < Messedrocker> doing your own music is supported in Excite Truck
2008-05-18 01:22 < Messedrocker> Dcoetzee, are RealSheep like RealDolls?
2008-05-18 01:22 < Dcoetzee> Yup.
2008-05-18 01:22 < bumm13> :-p
2008-05-18 01:22 < Messedrocker> O_O
2008-05-18 01:22 < Dcoetzee> Pretty sure they're a parody though. :-P
2008-05-18 01:22 < Dcoetzee> How are you, bumm13? Been a while.
2008-05-18 01:23 < bumm13> good
2008-05-18 01:27 < Lucifer_Cat> old
2008-05-18 01:37 < Lucifer_Cat> chatkill
2008-05-18 01:38 < Messedrocker> javachat
2008-05-18 01:46 < Lucifer_Cat> MOAR KATZ
2008-05-18 01:49 < Lucifer_Cat> i said more fucking cats
2008-05-18 01:50 * Dcoetzee meows.
2008-05-18 01:50 < Krimpet> eww, we don't need a cat orgy
2008-05-18 01:50 * Mike_H pets Dcoetzee
2008-05-18 01:51 * Dcoetzee purrs.
2008-05-18 01:51 < Krimpet> enough cats are fucking already :p
2008-05-18 01:51 * Lucifer_Cat fuggles
2008-05-18 01:51 < Lucifer_Cat> we need moar kittenz
2008-05-18 01:52 * Lucifer_Cat anticipates coitus
2008-05-18 01:52 < Dcoetzee> Er.... not all cat fantasy is for the purpose of yiffing. :-P
2008-05-18 01:53 < The359> god damn FURRIES!
2008-05-18 01:53 * The359 bombs the room
2008-05-18 01:53 * AdamBishop destroys the room with fire
2008-05-18 01:54 < Lucifer_Cat> WE DIDNT START THE FIRE
2008-05-18 01:54 < The359> IT WAS ALWAYS BURNING
2008-05-18 01:55 < Dcoetzee> Hmm, interesting. Apparently there was a survey in which it was found that only 2% of furries are zoophiles, and only 1% are plushphiles.
2008-05-18 01:55 < The359> it doesn't make it any better!
2008-05-18 01:56 < Dcoetzee> Meh, it's a fetish. I'm not a furry but I certainly see how anthropomorphic animals can be sexy.
2008-05-18 01:56 < The359> ...
2008-05-18 01:56 < Rinn> The problem is the ones who think it's a lifestyle.
2008-05-18 01:57 < Dcoetzee> Lifestyles are built on communities.
2008-05-18 01:57 < Messedrocker> furries have communities
2008-05-18 01:57 < Messedrocker> cf second life
2008-05-18 01:57 < Messedrocker> cf wikifur
2008-05-18 01:57 < Dcoetzee> They enjoy spending time with furry communities because those people share their interests, and they do that by engaging in furry activities.
2008-05-18 01:57 < Messedrocker> see eff muthafucka
2008-05-18 01:58 < Rinn> Is doing things with people who share your interests a lifestyle?
2008-05-18 01:58 < Messedrocker> maybe if you spent your life doing it
2008-05-18 01:58 < Dcoetzee> Every kinky or alternative sexuality person goes to work and acts "normal."
2008-05-18 01:58 < Lucifer_Cat> Messedrocker: not necessatily
2008-05-18 01:59 < Dcoetzee> A "lifestyle" doesn't mean "all the time."
2008-05-18 01:59 < Golbez> i would like to take this moment to thank the Planet Wikimedia blog aggregator for introducing me to the undertow/laralove incident. what would I do without my dramas?
2008-05-18 01:59 < Rinn> But not every kinky or alternative sexuality person thinks they're a fox.
2008-05-18 01:59 < Dcoetzee> And no furry keeps their fox suit on all the time either.
2008-05-18 01:59 < Messedrocker> Golbez, what undertow laralove incident
2008-05-18 01:59 < Rinn> You haven't met the furries I have.
2008-05-18 01:59 < Lucifer_Cat> ok for the records, i just put cat on to conform :P
2008-05-18 02:00 < Dcoetzee> It's a way of expressing themselves and their interests, like tattoos or clothes.
2008-05-18 02:00 < Messedrocker> oh right
2008-05-18 02:00 < Dcoetzee> Or in some cases, their spirituality.
2008-05-18 02:00 < Dcoetzee> A lot of religions are animalistic.
2008-05-18 02:00 < Golbez> Messedrocker- based on my biased interpretation of the proceedings: the_undertow unblocked Moulton, people complained, and it was discovered that accusing someone of racism is an extremely efficient method of draining them of outside support, whether or not it is actually true
2008-05-18 02:01 < Golbez> especially when it has zero to do with the block that the argument is over
2008-05-18 02:01 < Mike_H> Golbez: just so you know, SWATJester is in chat right now if you'd like to address him directly
2008-05-18 02:01 < Golbez> Oh, I know. I checked when I came in.
2008-05-18 02:01 < Golbez> I'm remaining skillfully vague.
2008-05-18 02:01 < Mike_H> oh, so you wanted to do Heathers teenage girl stuff and talk about him while he's in "earshot."
2008-05-18 02:01 < Golbez> But this is my first time on IRC here since I discovered it, so I figured I should say something/DRAMAS
2008-05-18 02:01 < AdamBishop> you are causing MOAR DRAHMAZ
2008-05-18 02:01 < Golbez> foar moar dramas
2008-05-18 02:02 < Golbez> anyway, my comment on it is publicly available on the wikipedias, so his presence here is no different than his presence there