freenode #wikipedia

2008-05-15 11:56 < Lycurgus> it's impossible except by accident because it would require the elites that would command it to commit suicide
2008-05-15 11:56 < quanticle> Lycurgus: I don't think so. The same thing was said post-WW1.
2008-05-15 11:56 < Lycurgus> as ruling elites
2008-05-15 11:57 < zocky> quanticle, that's like saying that because you have a gun and the other guy has a gun, you can win a serious fight to death against him without using your gun
2008-05-15 11:57 < scorchsaber_> zocky: You can, easily.
2008-05-15 11:57 < Ningyou> guns are different thing than nukes
2008-05-15 11:57 < Demi> do you think u.s. would launch a strategic nuclear strike against china if they annexed taiwan?
2008-05-15 11:57 < scorchsaber_> zocky: In close range, there's not much opportunity to take out your gun, really.
2008-05-15 11:57 < quanticle> zocky: Right, because his gun could go off, killing you, even if you shot first.
2008-05-15 11:57 < Ningyou> nobody has fought with nukes against nukes and I don't think anyone is willing to try it either
2008-05-15 11:58 < zocky> quanticle, the point is, if you start winning, he will shoot
2008-05-15 11:58 < Demi> would we nuke north korea if they invaded?
2008-05-15 11:58 < Ningyou> lol
2008-05-15 11:58 < Ningyou> what would they invade :P
2008-05-15 11:58 < zocky> quanticle, you can't win a war without using nukes or getting nuked, so why start it?
2008-05-15 11:58 < quanticle> Ningyou: That's why I'm saying that wars between Great Powers will remain conventional. No one has the balls to pull the nuke trigger.
2008-05-15 11:59 < Ningyou> quanticle: and I agree with you
2008-05-15 11:59 < quanticle> zocky: For the same reasons that anyone starts wars, resources, politics, pride, etc.
2008-05-15 11:59 < Ningyou> even though I don't think there will a be conflict between great powers during my life time :P
2008-05-15 11:59 < Ningyou> but who knows, who knows
2008-05-15 11:59 < Ningyou> it's only speculation :P
2008-05-15 11:59 < zocky> quanticle, noone has the interest to start a war, because you can't win it without using nukes, and you can't use nukes without getting nuked yourself
2008-05-15 11:59 < quanticle> Ningyou: Well, that's what they said after World War 1, too.
2008-05-15 11:59 < scorchsaber_> zocky: You can win a war without using nukes. People have done it for ages throughout history.
2008-05-15 11:59 < Ningyou> the situation was totally different back then
2008-05-15 12:00 < zocky> quanticle, do you seriously believe USA or Russia would let each other win a conventional war?
2008-05-15 12:00 < quanticle> zocky: Who says you can't win without using nukes?
2008-05-15 12:00 < Demi> does anyone think the u.s. would launch nuclear missiles against strategic targets in mainland china if china were to annex taiwan?
2008-05-15 12:00 < Ningyou> in the ways of economy and military power etc.
2008-05-15 12:00 < quanticle> zocky: Do you seriously believe that the next war will be between USA and Russia?
2008-05-15 12:00 < quanticle> Demi: Nope.
2008-05-15 12:00 < Ningyou> Demi: well, China has more manpower than the whole population of USA, and they have nuclear missiles too... nah, I don't think so :P
2008-05-15 12:00 < zocky> quanticle, no, it won't be, because they both have enough nukes
2008-05-15 12:00 < zocky> that's the whole point
2008-05-15 12:01 < Lycurgus> WWI and WWII were really part of the same conflict, not resolved until 1945. Eugen Weber has called it for that reason "The Second Thirty Years War". The middle of this period is in no way comparable to the early 21st century XE.
2008-05-15 12:01 < zocky> Lycurgus, that's not really true
2008-05-15 12:01 < Ningyou> Lycurgus: interesting point
2008-05-15 12:01 < morwen> Lycurgus: why not bundle in the cold war as well? Three wars for the price of one
2008-05-15 12:01 < zocky> Lycurgus, actually, it is true in many ways
2008-05-15 12:02 < quanticle> zocky: Right. But there are plenty of Great Powers that don't have enough nukes to completely incapacitate another country. China and India come to mind. Both have enough nukes for deterrence, but not enough for an ofensive first strike.
2008-05-15 12:02 < Ningyou> I wouldn't actually wonder if in 100 years they'd be teaching world wars to be part of a same conflict
2008-05-15 12:02 < zocky> the cold war was a replay of WWI and the beginning of WWII
2008-05-15 12:02 < zocky> pure imperialist conflict
2008-05-15 12:02 * Demi throws the napoleonic wars in there as well
2008-05-15 12:02 < Ningyou> Demi: :D
2008-05-15 12:02 < zocky> quanticle, that's why they aren't great powers :)
2008-05-15 12:02 < quanticle> morwen: The Cold War was fought over different stuff than the World Wars.
2008-05-15 12:03 < quanticle> zocky: Heh. Altering definitons ftw?
2008-05-15 12:03 < quanticle> *definitions, even.
2008-05-15 12:03 < zocky> quanticle, china and especially india can be nuked out of existence by the real great powers with the real great powers hardly getting scratched
2008-05-15 12:03 < Demi> "great power" is pretty slippery in any case
2008-05-15 12:03 < morwen> zocky: this is why we invented the word 'superpower' to refer to those 'real great powers'
2008-05-15 12:04 < zocky> pretending that china, india, and pakistan have the same kind of nucular clout as russia and USA is somewhat silly :)
2008-05-15 12:04 < quanticle> zocky: Hardly. Nukes don't do nearly as much damage as you think. Especially today, since both USA and Russia have disarmed many of their larger "city buster" nukes.
2008-05-15 12:04 < Demi> i think it's the client states and so forth that actually make a superpower and not so much nuclear weapons per se
2008-05-15 12:04 < zocky> quanticle, you don't need to completely destroy the other country physically
2008-05-15 12:04 < geniice> 165,000% inflation hmm
2008-05-15 12:04 < zocky> if you take out the government, the army and the infrastructure, they're done
2008-05-15 12:05 < quanticle> Demi: Indeed. I say a great power is one that's able to resist influence from another great power.
2008-05-15 12:05 < zocky> and russia and/or USA can do that to india and/or china, and not the other way around
2008-05-15 12:05 < Ningyou> then Japan isn't a great power
2008-05-15 12:05 < Fou-Lu> anyone ever read anything by John Marco?
2008-05-15 12:06 < zocky> Demi, that's true enough for the daily business
2008-05-15 12:06 < Vystrix_Nexoth> and what about real ultimate powers? :P
2008-05-15 12:06 < quanticle> zocky: Well, that's what I'm saying. Nukes only really work against high-tech infrastructures, like the US and Soviet command and control systems. If your command system is marginally less sophisticated, you have a good shot at weathering a nuke strike.
2008-05-15 12:06 < zocky> quanticle, you don't have a chance of governing your country if your highway, trains, phones, etc. are out
2008-05-15 12:07 < quanticle> Ningyou: Japan hasn't been a great power since the end of World War 2. It got overtaken by China.
2008-05-15 12:07 < Demi> http://www.avclub.com/content/tvclub/americas_next_top_model/and_the <- yay, we're quoted!
2008-05-15 12:07 < Ningyou> quanticle: yeah
2008-05-15 12:09 < geniice> quanticle if your entire population has just been killed off your command system ceases to be an issue
2008-05-15 12:09 < zocky> Demi, as I was saying, client states, etc. are good enough for the daily business. china can throw its weight around as a giant market while that matters, but it can't win an actual war, so its options in forcing its way in international relations is limited.
2008-05-15 12:09 < Lycurgus> Fou-Lu: no but [[John Marco]] could use more content so why not put something there?
2008-05-15 12:09 < zocky> *are
2008-05-15 12:09 < scorchsaber_> zocky: It could obviously win an actual war.
2008-05-15 12:09 < Fou-Lu> Lycurgus: I started a Wiki on his books
2008-05-15 12:09 < quanticle> zocky: First of all, it is possible to exert rule without trains, phones, and other modern infrastructure. Empires have existed before any of these were invented. Second of all, nuke strikes have the distinct possibility of *increasing* a people's will to fight, making the exhortations of leaders less necessary.
2008-05-15 12:10 < zocky> scorchsaber_, not against USA or russia
2008-05-15 12:10 < scorchsaber_> zocky: It's military is larger than the entire population of some countries.
2008-05-15 12:10 < geniice> scorchsaber_ depends who it was fighting
2008-05-15 12:10 < scorchsaber_> zocky: That's not the only "actual war"
2008-05-15 12:10 < zocky> scorchsaber_, that's the one that matters for getting your way on the global scene
2008-05-15 12:10 < Fou-Lu> Lycurgus: soooooo, yeeeeeaaaahhh
2008-05-15 12:10 < zocky> quanticle, empires worked without trains and phones when competing empires worked without them too
2008-05-15 12:10 < quanticle> zocky: No, I think China could win a war on its home turf against the USA because its supply lines would be so much shorter.
2008-05-15 12:10 < scorchsaber_> zocky: Not at all. Hitler didn't take over any superpowers, for instance.
2008-05-15 12:11 < Lycurgus> Fou-Lu: you should put in the External Links section if it's not there alreay
2008-05-15 12:11 < geniice> quanticle and empires had people in place who knew how to run things under such conditions.
2008-05-15 12:11 < Lycurgus> *already
2008-05-15 12:11 < Fou-Lu> Lycurgus: K
2008-05-15 12:11 < zocky> scorchsaber_, germany WAS a superpower at the time
2008-05-15 12:11 < quanticle> zocky: And, if nukes are involved, the competing empires won't have phones or trains either. It all goes back to what I was saying before - nukes cancel.
2008-05-15 12:11 < Lycurgus> actually france is considered a great power to this day
2008-05-15 12:12 < zocky> quanticle, why would USA invade china once it nuked it?
2008-05-15 12:12 < scorchsaber_> zocky: So is china, to some people.
2008-05-15 12:12 < zocky> scorchsaber_, there was no country that could beat germany into submission in a matter of weeks at the time
2008-05-15 12:12 < scorchsaber_> "superpower" is highly subjective term, or so I'm told.
2008-05-15 12:12 < zocky> there are such countries now
2008-05-15 12:12 < Lycurgus> and has been since at least the time of Louis XIV
2008-05-15 12:13 < zocky> it's simply not the same world
2008-05-15 12:13 < scorchsaber_> zocky: Anybody could be ebaten into submission in a matter of weeks, just nuke the whole place and they're dead.
2008-05-15 12:13 < quanticle> zocky: Who says the US would use nukes. Lets say China invaded Vietnam. Now, Vietnam doesn't have enough strategic importance for us to use nukes, so we'd have to mount some kind of air campaign or ground assault to drive China out (if we chose to get involved at all).
2008-05-15 12:13 < Lycurgus> well supposedly there's only one "hard power" superposer remaining
2008-05-15 12:13 < zocky> scorchsaber_, exactly, that's why we won't have a WWII-like conventional global war
2008-05-15 12:13 < scorchsaber_> zocky: COurse, they might send some nukes off before you knock them into submission, but they would submit.
2008-05-15 12:13 < morwen> China did invade Vietnam. It won.
2008-05-15 12:13 < Lycurgus> and there were only ever two
2008-05-15 12:13 < quanticle> zocky: By your logic, the Gulf War should have been nuclear.
2008-05-15 12:13 < scorchsaber_> zocky: So you mean that your distinction between china and germany is irrelevant?
2008-05-15 12:13 < zocky> quanticle, how does that follow?
2008-05-15 12:13 < Lycurgus> superposer!
2008-05-15 12:14 < scorchsaber_> zocky: China could take over many neighboring countries, and launch itself onto the global scene. No nukes need be involved.
2008-05-15 12:14 < Lycurgus> I swear that was typo
2008-05-15 12:14 * Rinn poses superbly
2008-05-15 12:14 * Lycurgus is all about the postures/asanas there days.
2008-05-15 12:14 < zocky> scorchsaber_, yes, or it could refrain from invading other countries and build enough nukes, which is what they're doing now
2008-05-15 12:14 < Lycurgus> *these
2008-05-15 12:15 < geniice> scorchsaber_ the wild card is india
2008-05-15 12:15 < quanticle> zocky: Not all military actions deserve a nuclear response. I'm saying China could exploit that and increase its influence via a series of smaller military actions that don't individually merit a nuclear response, but collectively enhance its influence.
2008-05-15 12:15 < scorchsaber_> zocky: So then you retract your statement that the only way to get onto the global scene is to invade the US or Russia?
2008-05-15 12:15 < scorchsaber_> (since you've just listed two alternatives)
2008-05-15 12:15 < zocky> scorchsaber_, that's not what I said
2008-05-15 12:15 < geniice> scorchsaber_ India isn't really up to takeing on china with convetional forces (or at least wasn't last time they clashed) but has ambitions as a regional power and the population to be one
2008-05-15 12:16 < Lycurgus> i don't think india and china see each other as antagonists at all
2008-05-15 12:16 < zocky> what I said is that if you want to be able to force your way in international relations, you have to be able to strike back at russia or USA with a comparable force
2008-05-15 12:16 < Lycurgus> just the opposit
2008-05-15 12:16 < Lycurgus> e
2008-05-15 12:16 < scorchsaber_> zocky : scorchsaber_, not against USA or russia ;; scorchsaber_ : zocky: That's not the only "actual war" ;; zocky : scorchsaber_, that's the one that matters for getting your way on the global scene
2008-05-15 12:16 < zocky> you don't need to invade anybody
2008-05-15 12:16 < quanticle> zocky: The issue with nukes is that they fail to be significant once both sides in a conflict have them.
2008-05-15 12:17 < zocky> russia and USA didn't invade each other to get to their current positions
2008-05-15 12:17 < quanticle> zocky: Right, but their militaries did clash.
2008-05-15 12:17 < Lycurgus> really when?
2008-05-15 12:17 < zocky> quanticle, they didn't go to open war
2008-05-15 12:17 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Korea.
2008-05-15 12:17 < Lycurgus> well that way the chinese
2008-05-15 12:17 < Lycurgus> *was
2008-05-15 12:18 < quanticle> Lycurgus: It was Russian pilots in those MiGs.
2008-05-15 12:18 < zocky> and it was before MAD
2008-05-15 12:18 < Demi> i'm announcing a development deal for World War III: Conflict in the Caucausus!
2008-05-15 12:18 < Lycurgus> you mean a game?
2008-05-15 12:19 < quanticle> zocky: No, the principle of MAD was established right around the time of Korea, when both sides began to play with large fleets of long range bombers and ICBMs.
2008-05-15 12:19 < scorchsaber_> I say we all develop a non-disableable doomsday device and prevent any attacks from anybody in their right mind.
2008-05-15 12:20 < scorchsaber_> ANd set that doomsday device to automatically go off whenever anybody invades.
2008-05-15 12:20 < scorchsaber_> It's all perfect.
2008-05-15 12:20 < scorchsaber_> It could never fail.
2008-05-15 12:20 < Demi> scorchsaber_ - you might be interested in my anti-mugging explosive belt
2008-05-15 12:20 < zocky> ok, I have to go wash the dishes. I'll finish by saying that no country is going to attack russia or USA because everyone knows that both would be forced to respond with a full nuclear attack, because they can't afford to have the deterrent turn into a bluff.
2008-05-15 12:20 < scorchsaber_> Demi: It was a joke. :(
2008-05-15 12:21 < scorchsaber_> Demi: MAD is a POS. GIN?
2008-05-15 12:21 * Working_Cat hurls ethnic slurs at quanticle
2008-05-15 12:21 * quanticle calls Working_Cat a lazy, good for nothing Oriya.
2008-05-15 12:22 < Working_Cat> XD
2008-05-15 12:22 < Working_Cat> pretty close, except for the grossly off the mark geography
2008-05-15 12:23 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Heh. I was going for the anti-Oriya ethnic slur, but I'll take whatever I can get.
2008-05-15 12:23 < Working_Cat> well i didnt have that in mind. i was just reading the topic.
2008-05-15 12:24 * Working_Cat was juggling registry entries for over an hour this morning
2008-05-15 12:24 < quanticle> Working_Cat: What happened?
2008-05-15 12:25 < Working_Cat> MS decided not to kill Vista in the crib
2008-05-15 12:26 < Working_Cat> quanticle: nothing "happened" really, just that Vista and its not so useful security features mess with the installer for our product.
2008-05-15 12:26 < Working_Cat> so having to change all that.
2008-05-15 12:26 < Working_Cat> ahh the joys of living close to work...
2008-05-15 12:26 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Ah. Well that's to be expected.
2008-05-15 12:26 < Working_Cat> i can now go home and eat
2008-05-15 12:27 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Awesome.
2008-05-15 12:27 < Working_Cat> go home - fix something up - eat - check up on news - get back with time to spare.
2008-05-15 12:28 * Lycurgus lives real close to work.
2008-05-15 12:28 < Working_Cat> lol last night, i put too much dishwashing fluid in the dish washer...
2008-05-15 12:28 < Working_Cat> Lycurgus: home offices and streets dont count.
2008-05-15 12:28 < quanticle> Man, I <3 #wikipedia. That discussion on Great Powers and nukes started out with a discussion on Rumsfeld.
2008-05-15 12:28 * quanticle reads backscroll
2008-05-15 12:28 < Working_Cat> quanticle: thats not a far shot.
2008-05-15 12:28 < Fou-Lu> So no one's read anything by John Marco?
2008-05-15 12:28 < Vystrix_Nexoth> quanticle: that's a property of IRC, not of this channel per se. :P
2008-05-15 12:29 < geniice> anyway
2008-05-15 12:29 < Naria> How can I post my username in the end of an article on a talk page?
2008-05-15 12:29 < quanticle> Vystrix_Nexoth: No, the special property of this channel was that on one Godwin'd the discussion.
2008-05-15 12:29 < Vystrix_Nexoth> Naria: ~~~~
2008-05-15 12:29 < quanticle> Naria: ~~~~
2008-05-15 12:29 < Working_Cat> Htoxen_Xirtsyv: or group discussions in general
2008-05-15 12:29 < Naria> Thank you.
2008-05-15 12:30 < Working_Cat> quanticle: only one i've seen here godwinning, is you.
2008-05-15 12:30 < bumm13> verbing weirds language!
2008-05-15 12:30 < quanticle> Working_Cat: You know who else liked Godwinning discussions?
2008-05-15 12:30 < Working_Cat> Churchill?
2008-05-15 12:30 < quanticle> Stalin.
2008-05-15 12:31 < Demi> if someone compares you to neville chamberlain, how close is that to godwin's law?
2008-05-15 12:31 < Working_Cat> Demi: XD
2008-05-15 12:31 < quanticle> Demi: Pretty damn close, I'd say. The only reason Chamberlain is remembered is because he sold out Czechoslovakia.
2008-05-15 12:32 < Demi> scorchsaber_ - yes, i followed it up with a joke. it might surprise you, but i don't actually market an explosive belt for deterrence against muggings. no, i sell rape condoms.
2008-05-15 12:32 < Working_Cat> anyways, so i put in too much detergent... and the foam was literally flowing all over the place... it actually came out of my sink
2008-05-15 12:32 < Demi> Working_Cat - in the dishwasher?
2008-05-15 12:32 < Working_Cat> yeah
2008-05-15 12:32 < scorchsaber_> Demi: I thought it was a joke mocking what you perceived as my actual views, rather than my pretend views.
2008-05-15 12:32 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Did you put in regular soap or diswasher soap?
2008-05-15 12:33 < Working_Cat> i think it was regular. it didnt have "especially for dishwashers so we can charge you extra for it" written all over it
2008-05-15 12:33 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Regular dish soap + dishwasher = bad idea
2008-05-15 12:33 < Working_Cat> and i put in dishwasher soap quantities
2008-05-15 12:33 < Demi> scorchsaber_ - oh, it's hard to navigate all the layers of irony :)
2008-05-15 12:34 < Demi> haha
2008-05-15 12:34 < Working_Cat> quanticle: other than soapy sinks, how?
2008-05-15 12:34 < Demi> Working_Cat - it's not the same stuff
2008-05-15 12:34 < Working_Cat> Demi: i know
2008-05-15 12:34 < Working_Cat> its just that my old apt didnt have a dishwasher so i got the regular one.
2008-05-15 12:35 < Working_Cat> and last night i needed to do dishes ....
2008-05-15 12:35 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Well, regular dish soap has a propensity to overflow the dishwasher, just as you described.
2008-05-15 12:35 < Working_Cat> quanticle: that i found out :S
2008-05-15 12:35 < Demi> i doubt it will rinse off either
2008-05-15 12:36 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Dishwasher sopa isn't that expensive. You should get some. Regular dish soap leaves a residue...
2008-05-15 12:36 < Working_Cat> quanticle: dude, money wasnt the factor there.
2008-05-15 12:37 < Working_Cat> i just used what i had on had. tripping to walmart at midnight always leads me into buying crap.
2008-05-15 12:37 < quanticle> Working_Cat: You phail at laziness. Its more work to clean up after an overflowing dishwasher than it is to buy dish soap.
2008-05-15 12:37 < Working_Cat> on hand
2008-05-15 12:37 < quanticle> Er, dishwasher soap, rather
2008-05-15 12:37 * quanticle fails at typing dishwasher
2008-05-15 12:38 < Working_Cat> quanticle: except for an awesome looking sink, it didnt do anything
2008-05-15 12:38 < Working_Cat> and even the foam drained out
2008-05-15 12:39 < Working_Cat> okie peeps, i'll be back after lunch :D
2008-05-15 12:39 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Really? Lucky you. When I made that mistake, soapy water spilled out all over the floor and my mom was pissed at me for a week.
2008-05-15 12:50 < Pilotguy> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
2008-05-15 12:51 < Dendodge> mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
2008-05-15 12:52 < needbeer> http://www.dasdeutschlandspiel.de/index.php?page=beg.php&id=4410
2008-05-15 12:54 < needbeer> http://www.dasdeutschlandspiel.de/index.php?page=beg.php&id=4410
2008-05-15 12:59 < needbeer> http://www.dasdeutschlandspiel.de/index.php?page=beg.php&id=4410
2008-05-15 13:00 < Vystrix_Nexoth> this guy hasn't been chopped down already?
2008-05-15 13:00 < Flo_1> omg linkspam :(
2008-05-15 13:00 < Naria> Anyone here able to help me out please?
2008-05-15 13:01 < Dendodge> yeah, what wit?
2008-05-15 13:01 < Dendodge> *with
2008-05-15 13:01 < Naria> I am making a Deletion Review on the English Wikipedia, is anyone willing to listen to my side of things and help me there with their vote to endorse the restore of the article?
2008-05-15 13:01 < quanticle> Pilotguy: You can't do that. Only Kelly Martin can do that. :P
2008-05-15 13:02 < Dendodge> I'll listen
2008-05-15 13:02 < quanticle> Naria: I can promise to have a look. I can't promise to agree with you.
2008-05-15 13:02 < Naria> Yes, I am not looking to bling agreements, just someone to listen to me with some fresh eyes.
2008-05-15 13:02 < quanticle> Naria: Ok. Link?
2008-05-15 13:03 < Naria> Would you both mind if I private you not to flood the channel?
2008-05-15 13:03 < Dendodge> FINE NBY ME
2008-05-15 13:03 < Mahlzahn> you can "flood" - we can look even if we say nothing :)
2008-05-15 13:03 < Dendodge> *fine by me
2008-05-15 13:04 < quanticle> Dendodge: Caps lock key sticking?
2008-05-15 13:04 < Mbimmler> q.e.d.
2008-05-15 13:04 < Mahlzahn> what was that?
2008-05-15 13:04 < Vystrix_Nexoth> the mere threat was enough. not bad.
2008-05-15 13:04 < quanticle> Mbimmler: You proved something?
2008-05-15 13:04 < Dendodge> no, just forgot to turn it off quanticle
2008-05-15 13:05 * Mahlzahn doesn't see kick/part/join messages
2008-05-15 13:05 < Mbimmler> quanticle: it was proved that I should have quieted needbeer...because he was k-lined at the same time
2008-05-15 13:05 < Vystrix_Nexoth> needbeer was k-lined between +o and -o
2008-05-15 13:05 < Mahlzahn> ah. good.
2008-05-15 13:08 < quanticle> Mbimmler: Ah.
2008-05-15 13:11 * quanticle wonders what criteria one has to meet for an article to be undeleted
2008-05-15 13:12 < Naria> quanticle: The article was deleted 1 year ago. Now it was rewritten, with new sources and verifiable information, as well as lots of corrections. But the admin simply deleted it again, this time with no reason, but with the old article in mind.
2008-05-15 13:15 < quanticle> Naria: The issue I have is that, unless you can find some reliable sources, as per [[WP:RELIABLE]], the article is fair game for deletion. I don't see any evidence for the presence of reliable sources in the article.
2008-05-15 13:19 < zocky> Naria, which article?
2008-05-15 13:21 < Naria> quanticle: There were references, such as a TV documentary and published books. ISBN referred and all.
2008-05-15 13:23 < quanticle> zocky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2008_May_15#Aset_Ka
2008-05-15 13:23 < quanticle> Naria: Were any of the books published by third party sources?
2008-05-15 13:24 < Naria> Some yes.
2008-05-15 13:35 < Working_Cat> quanticle: you were saying something
2008-05-15 13:36 * Working_Cat sets Fire on ice
2008-05-15 13:36 < Fire> ...
2008-05-15 13:37 * scorchsaber_ puts Working_Cat to sleep
2008-05-15 13:37 < Working_Cat> scorchsaber_: thanks but i dont need external help for that...
2008-05-15 13:39 < scorchsaber_> Working_Cat: I meant the other kind of "put to sleep"
2008-05-15 13:39 < scorchsaber_> Working_Cat: It's generally used for pets, such as, well, cats.
2008-05-15 13:39 < scorchsaber_> Even Working Cats.
2008-05-15 13:41 < Working_Cat> again, i have enough people working on that one too.
2008-05-15 13:41 < scorchsaber_> Working_Cat: Ouch.
2008-05-15 13:41 < scorchsaber_> That's got to suck.
2008-05-15 13:43 < Working_Cat> i kinda like the attention
2008-05-15 13:47 * Rinn sings Working_Cat a lullaby
2008-05-15 13:48 < Working_Cat> Rinn: unless you are one of those screaming banshees which can kill at first sound, thats not what he meant.
2008-05-15 13:48 * bumm13 screams
2008-05-15 13:48 < bumm13> :O )))
2008-05-15 13:49 < Working_Cat> heh, bush just godwinned the discussion
2008-05-15 13:49 < Working_Cat> http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/15/bush.mideast/index.html
2008-05-15 13:53 * Working_Cat dodges den
2008-05-15 13:53 < Working_Cat> http://dilbert.com/blog <-- lol
2008-05-15 13:59 < quanticle> Working_Cat: Not that I know of.
2008-05-15 13:59 < Working_Cat> what
2008-05-15 14:00 < Working_Cat> oh the last time, i said bye, and as i was leaving, i saw your msg come in
2008-05-15 14:00 < Working_Cat> my fingaz are faster than my eyes.
2008-05-15 14:00 < Working_Cat> that has led to more than one akward moment.
2008-05-15 14:08 < Working_Cat> heh, internet seems to be working out pretty darn well for david allen
2008-05-15 14:08 < bumm13> meowf?
2008-05-15 14:11 < Working_Cat> later
2008-05-15 14:11 < quanticle> Bye
2008-05-15 14:12 * quanticle wonders who David Allen is
2008-05-15 14:13 < Netsniper> david allen coe!
2008-05-15 14:22 * quanticle has assumed unofficial ownership of the channel topic, it seems.
2008-05-15 14:23 * bumm13 revolts against quanticle
2008-05-15 14:23 < bumm13> ,o_|)->
2008-05-15 14:23 < bumm13> ,o_|)  ->
2008-05-15 14:23 < bumm13> ,o_|)    ->
2008-05-15 14:24 < quanticle> bumm13: What the hell?
2008-05-15 14:24 < bumm13> ASCII man with bow
2008-05-15 14:24 < quanticle> Ooooohhhh...
2008-05-15 14:25 < quanticle> bumm13: You free to take over ownership of the channel topic, but you'll have to maintain it.
2008-05-15 14:25 < bumm13> nooooooo!
2008-05-15 14:25 * bumm13 runs away
2008-05-15 14:26 < ideogram> the problem with kittens is THAT ... eventually they grow up to be CATS
2008-05-15 14:27 * bumm13 <3 his cat
2008-05-15 14:28 < quanticle> ideogram: So the problem with kittens is that they eventually own "all your base", and set you up the bomb?
2008-05-15 14:28 < bumm13> *BOMB*
2008-05-15 14:28 < ideogram> i have no idea what you are talking about
2008-05-15 14:28 < ideogram> i've been living in a cave for the last five years
2008-05-15 14:29 < quanticle> ideogram: GTFO the Internet :P
2008-05-15 14:29 < quanticle> ideogram: "All your base" is far older than that.
2008-05-15 14:29 < quanticle> Heh.
2008-05-15 14:29 < ideogram> get the fuck out the internet?
2008-05-15 14:30 < ideogram> never heard that one either
2008-05-15 14:30 < quanticle> ideogram: O = off
2008-05-15 14:30 < quanticle> ideogram: No, that's just a personal override of the traditional GTFO.
2008-05-15 14:30 < ideogram> hmm
2008-05-15 14:30 < ideogram> the internet is my life
2008-05-15 14:30 < ideogram> it's not a real life, but it's a good simulation
2008-05-15 14:30 < quanticle> ideogram: If so, then how can you not have heard of "All your base"?
2008-05-15 14:31 < ideogram> I heard it, but I don't know the relevace to cats
2008-05-15 14:31 < Dendodge> lolcats
2008-05-15 14:31 < ideogram> oh god I hate lolcats
2008-05-15 14:31 * Dendodge too
2008-05-15 14:31 < quanticle> ideogram: Its almost as if you're some kind of living fossil; the las person on the Internet that hasn't been exposed to the "All Your Base" meme.
2008-05-15 14:31 < quanticle> Dendodge: FAIL. All your base predates lolcats.
2008-05-15 14:32 < Dendodge> Yeah, but they use it
2008-05-15 14:32 < Dendodge> It's the link ideogram asked for
2008-05-15 14:32 < ideogram> no no I heard it, just don't know why it's related to kittens
2008-05-15 14:32 < quanticle> Dendodge: Nonsense. The link is that the villain of Zero Wing is called CATS.
2008-05-15 14:32 < quanticle> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_your_base
2008-05-15 14:32 < Dendodge> Really? Cool
2008-05-15 14:32 < quanticle> Good lord.
2008-05-15 14:33 < quanticle> #wikipedia is dense today.
2008-05-15 14:33 < The359> All your base are belong to use?
2008-05-15 14:33 < Dendodge> densely crowded or densely stupid?
2008-05-15 14:33 < The359> that makes no fucking sense
2008-05-15 14:33 < Dendodge> US
2008-05-15 14:33 < Dendodge> *us*
2008-05-15 14:33 < ideogram> dense as in if you throw us in water we will drown
2008-05-15 14:33 < The359> that makes even less sense
2008-05-15 14:34 < quanticle> The359: [[All Your Base]]
2008-05-15 14:34 < Dendodge> It means all your bases belong to us
2008-05-15 14:34 < quanticle> The359: Sorry, [[All your base]]
2008-05-15 14:34 < Dendodge> It's a misspelling
2008-05-15 14:34 < quanticle> Dendodge: No, its a mistranslation.
2008-05-15 14:34 * The359 was joking
2008-05-15 14:35 < Dendodge> Oh, it was in Japanese! I just scrolled down the article
2008-05-15 14:38 < iaretehrulzor> i've heard that there is a group who are utterly ignorant of all our base and in serious need of education?
2008-05-15 14:39 < quanticle> All your base are belong to the internet.
2008-05-15 14:39 < ideogram> impossible
2008-05-15 14:39 < Vystrix_Nexoth> ah, you're just in time.
2008-05-15 14:39 < ideogram> wikipedia rules the world
2008-05-15 14:39 < ideogram> there is no escape
2008-05-15 14:39 < iaretehrulzor> do you know about our bases?
2008-05-15 14:39 < ideogram> i'm sure i dont
2008-05-15 14:39 < iaretehrulzor> if not, ill have to set you up a bomb! FOR GREAT JUSTICE!!
2008-05-15 14:39 < ziabojler> iaretehrulzor: lol
2008-05-15 14:39 < ideogram> i dont want to know
2008-05-15 14:39 < iaretehrulzor> youve got no chance to survive, make your time!!!!!!!
2008-05-15 14:40 < ideogram> why should i care about your bases?
2008-05-15 14:40 < iaretehrulzor> do you even know whose "our bases" are?
2008-05-15 14:40 < ideogram> what?
2008-05-15 14:40 < ideogram> I have no idea what you are talking about
2008-05-15 14:40 < ideogram> can you please try to speak in simple english
2008-05-15 14:40 < iaretehrulzor> i have no idea either
2008-05-15 14:41 < ideogram> oh good lets see who can be more confused
2008-05-15 14:41 < ideogram> I win I win
2008-05-15 14:41 < ziabojler> you have no chance to survive, he said
2008-05-15 14:41 * Demi move zig
2008-05-15 14:41 < iaretehrulzor> you forgot to add MAKE YOUR TIME
2008-05-15 14:41 < ideogram> gibberish
2008-05-15 14:41 < ideogram> I am making my time here
2008-05-15 14:41 < CaptainOrangeBea> somebody set up us the bomb
2008-05-15 14:41 < iaretehrulzor> that was me
2008-05-15 14:42 < CaptainOrangeBea> meanie
2008-05-15 14:42 < CaptainOrangeBea> lol
2008-05-15 14:43 < quanticle> In A.D. 2101 war was beginning...
2008-05-15 14:43 < iaretehrulzor> what!
2008-05-15 14:43 < ziabojler> yeah thats true
2008-05-15 14:43 < iaretehrulzor> what happen!
2008-05-15 14:43 < Demi> main screen turn on
2008-05-15 14:43 < Ral315> It's YOU!
2008-05-15 14:43 < iaretehrulzor> HOW ARE YOU GENTLEMEN?!
2008-05-15 14:43 < ziabojler> rotfl ;D
2008-05-15 14:44 * Vystrix_Nexoth take off every 'zig'
2008-05-15 14:44 < Ral315> Move 'Zig'
2008-05-15 14:44 < Ral315> For great justice
2008-05-15 14:44 < iaretehrulzor> not yet
2008-05-15 14:44 * bumm13 NP: AC/DC - Who Made Who (1986)
2008-05-15 14:44 < Ral315> We skipped ahead :)
2008-05-15 14:44 < CaptainOrangeBea> All your muffin are belong to us
2008-05-15 14:44 < Demi> somebody set up us the bomb
2008-05-15 14:44 < bumm13> *BOMB*
2008-05-15 14:44 < iaretehrulzor> You are all on the way to destruction...
2008-05-15 14:44 < quanticle> WE GET SIGNAL
2008-05-15 14:44 < iaretehrulzor> Ha Ha Ha Ha
2008-05-15 14:45 < Demi> i forget get signal
2008-05-15 14:45 < CaptainOrangeBea> bomb?... BOMB AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! *runs away*
2008-05-15 14:45 < Vystrix_Nexoth> i'ts you !!
2008-05-15 14:45 < iaretehrulzor> mission completed
2008-05-15 14:45 < Vystrix_Nexoth> iaretehrulzor know what he doing.
2008-05-15 14:46 * Vystrix_Nexoth nods
2008-05-15 14:46 < iaretehrulzor> Move zigs
2008-05-15 14:46 * Vystrix_Nexoth retracts that statement
2008-05-15 14:47 < iaretehrulzor> why?!
2008-05-15 14:47 < Dendodge> All ur base r belong 2 us!
2008-05-15 14:47 < iaretehrulzor> what did begin in A.D. 2101?
2008-05-15 14:48 < CaptainOrangeBea> ... why you grammer suck?
2008-05-15 14:48 < CaptainOrangeBea> I does grammer good
2008-05-15 14:48 < bumm13> you does Kelsey Grammer good
2008-05-15 14:48 < quanticle> iaretehrulzor: War, of course.
2008-05-15 14:49 * iaretehrulzor nods
2008-05-15 14:50 < iaretehrulzor> mission completed, quanticle.
2008-05-15 14:50 < iaretehrulzor> everyone here knows what began in A.D. 2101
2008-05-15 14:50 < iaretehrulzor> we can now leave
2008-05-15 14:50 < quanticle> iaretehrulzor: Miiiiiisssssion Compreeeeetu!
2008-05-15 14:51 < iaretehrulzor> RETS GO AND DURINKU A KOHI
2008-05-15 14:51 < Ral315> You know, we missed the best line.
2008-05-15 14:51 < Ral315> "You have no chance to survive make your time."
2008-05-15 14:51 < Star-D> quanticle thats why we just fuck it..
2008-05-15 14:51 < iaretehrulzor> <iaretehrulzor> youve got no chance to survive, make your time!!!!!!!
2008-05-15 14:52 < iaretehrulzor> as you can clearly see, we didnt miss it
2008-05-15 14:52 < CaptainOrangeBea> obviously
2008-05-15 14:52 < CaptainOrangeBea> ... duh
2008-05-15 14:52 < ideogram> lol
2008-05-15 14:52 < ideogram> always bad when people come in the middle and you have to start over
2008-05-15 14:53 < CaptainOrangeBea> omgwtfbbqroflcopter
2008-05-15 14:53 < CaptainOrangeBea> whew had to get that out of my system
2008-05-15 14:53 < iaretehrulzor> roflroflroflrofl
2008-05-15 14:53 < CaptainOrangeBea> lol
2008-05-15 14:54 < CaptainOrangeBea> ... *silence*
2008-05-15 14:55 < quanticle> *crickets chirping*
2008-05-15 14:55 < ideogram> what, you preferred endless repetition of an ancient internet meme?
2008-05-15 14:55 < CaptainOrangeBea> DAMN CRICKETS!!!! *sprays Raid*
2008-05-15 14:55 < Vystrix_Nexoth> as a matter of fact, yes.
2008-05-15 14:55 < CaptainOrangeBea> yes... yes i do
2008-05-15 14:55 < iaretehrulzor> zero wing rules
2008-05-15 14:55 < ideogram> well don't let me stop you
2008-05-15 14:55 < CaptainOrangeBea> lol
2008-05-15 14:56 < iaretehrulzor> let's go get drunk, ill pay
2008-05-15 14:56 < ideogram> i don't drink
2008-05-15 14:56 < iaretehrulzor> just kidding
2008-05-15 14:56 < ideogram> but it is time for lunch
2008-05-15 14:57 < mattbuck> that'#s the wonderful thing. it's always lunchtime somewhere
2008-05-15 14:57 < CaptainOrangeBea> ... I'll take a gallon of scotch and a bowl of cookie crisp please....
2008-05-15 14:57 < ziabojler> but in dirty glass
2008-05-15 15:00 < iaretehrulzor> ....
2008-05-15 15:03 < quanticle> And now we return you to your previously scheduled #wikipedia
2008-05-15 15:03 * bumm13 turns on the color bar test card
2008-05-15 15:03 < iaretehrulzor> i eat flowers
2008-05-15 15:03 * mattbuck waits for the test card girl to do something creepy
2008-05-15 15:04 < quanticle> Or something hawt.
2008-05-15 15:04 < ziabojler> O RLY?
2008-05-15 15:04 < iaretehrulzor> YA RLY
2008-05-15 15:05 < mattbuck> OMG
2008-05-15 15:09 < quanticle> Heh. I just watched Bush invoke Godwin's Law on the Israel-Palestine discussion.
2008-05-15 15:10 < tawker> Bush
2008-05-15 15:10 < tawker> hah
2008-05-15 15:11 < quanticle> Heh. He was addressing the Israeli Knesset, and he said something to the effect of "Negotiating with ${unnamed_terrorist_group} is like negotiating with Hitler".
2008-05-15 15:11 < ideogram> that wouldn't be him invoking godwin's law
2008-05-15 15:11 < quanticle> The first thing that came into my mind was, "My god. Did an actual head of state just invoke Godwin's law?"
2008-05-15 15:11 < ideogram> that would be a reason to invoke godwin's law on him
2008-05-15 15:12 < ideogram> I don't know why you are surprised some politician used the hitler analogy
2008-05-15 15:12 < ideogram> godwin's law was invented precisely because it is so common
2008-05-15 15:13 < quanticle> ideogram: Right, but a corollary of Godwin's Law is that the first person to resort such inflammatory rhetoric loses the discussion.
2008-05-15 15:13 < Vystrix_Nexoth> I think, technically, godwin's law says that, the longer a discussion goes on, the more likely it is that a comparison with Nazis/Hitler will occur.
2008-05-15 15:13 < ideogram> we wish
2008-05-15 15:13 < Vystrix_Nexoth> plus what quanticle just said
2008-05-15 15:14 < ideogram> obviously in the real world using the hitler analogy is very profitable
2008-05-15 15:14 < ideogram> otherwise politicians wouldn't do it
2008-05-15 15:14 < ideogram> the nazi's have become the modern symbol for evil, and hitler for the devil
2008-05-15 15:14 < ideogram> I really don't know why you are surprised
2008-05-15 15:15 < Vystrix_Nexoth> the purpose of the law is to avoid, or at least point out, superfluous comparisons with Nazis/Hitler.
2008-05-15 15:15 < quanticle> Vystrix_Nexoth: Indeed.
2008-05-15 15:15 < Vystrix_Nexoth> since those kinds of comparisons are overused, and while there still are legitimate comparisons to be made.
2008-05-15 15:16 < quanticle> ideogram: I think its fair to always call out politicians for making superfluous comparisons to Hitler. Godwin's law simply gives us a handy shorthand for doing so.
2008-05-15 15:16 < ideogram> Godwin's law is an internet meme limited to a small clique
2008-05-15 15:16 < ideogram> of course we all know it's stupid to compare to hitler, and also of course the general public laps it up
2008-05-15 15:16 < ideogram> people are stupid
2008-05-15 15:16 < ideogram> what are you going to do?
2008-05-15 15:17 < CaptainOrangeBea> No... its an actual law... its like the 69th amendment or something...
2008-05-15 15:17 < CaptainOrangeBea> rofl
2008-05-15 15:17 < ideogram> perhaps we can get the states to ratify it
2008-05-15 15:17 < CaptainOrangeBea> we can try
2008-05-15 15:17 < quanticle> ideogram: Nonsense. Knowledge of Godwin's law has spread a good distance beyond the Internet. Heck, Reason Magazine just did a piece on it - http://www.reason.com/news/show/32944.html
2008-05-15 15:17 < CaptainOrangeBea> true enough
2008-05-15 15:17 < ideogram> quanticle, I think you are quibbling with a detail while missing the point
2008-05-15 15:18 < CaptainOrangeBea> and the point was?
2008-05-15 15:18 < ideogram> the fact is that no one is the Israeli Knesset is going to shout out "Godwin's Law!"
2008-05-15 15:18 < ideogram> the point is that the general public doesn't know or care about Godwin's law
2008-05-15 15:18 < CaptainOrangeBea> ... so?
2008-05-15 15:18 < ideogram> so, why is quanticle surprised?
2008-05-15 15:18 < mattbuck> more proof the public should all be euthanised
2008-05-15 15:18 < ideogram> I'm in favor of it
2008-05-15 15:18 < Vystrix_Nexoth> hehe
2008-05-15 15:18 < mattbuck> the world would be a much better place without all those damn unclean
2008-05-15 15:19 < CaptainOrangeBea> dont worry... its all over on december 21 2012
2008-05-15 15:19 < mattbuck> oh yes, the mayans
2008-05-15 15:19 < CaptainOrangeBea> damn right
2008-05-15 15:19 < CaptainOrangeBea> 11:13am to be specific
2008-05-15 15:19 < quanticle> ideogram: I guess, I just never figured I'd actually see a real Western politician resort to such rhetoric...
2008-05-15 15:19 < ideogram> you must have not been paying attention
2008-05-15 15:19 < Vystrix_Nexoth> quanticle: you've misunderestimated our fearless leader.
2008-05-15 15:19 < ideogram> what does the "Axis of Evil" refer to?
2008-05-15 15:20 < quanticle> ideogram: Fair point.
2008-05-15 15:20 < quanticle> Vystrix_Nexoth: That I have. Even I thought he couldn't make things any worse, he found a way.
2008-05-15 15:20 < CaptainOrangeBea> they meant axle of evil... it's part of hitlers car
2008-05-15 15:20 < quanticle> CaptainOrangeBea: Heh.
2008-05-15 15:20 < ideogram> it's impossible for me to underestimate politicians
2008-05-15 15:21 < mattbuck> true
2008-05-15 15:21 < ideogram> or shold that be overestimate?
2008-05-15 15:21 < mattbuck> both?
2008-05-15 15:21 < CaptainOrangeBea> both... AT THE SAME TIME!!!
2008-05-15 15:21 < ideogram> hahaha
2008-05-15 15:21 < Vystrix_Nexoth> you had it right the first time.
2008-05-15 15:21 < CaptainOrangeBea> DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN!!!!
2008-05-15 15:21 < Vystrix_Nexoth> try as you might, you can't estimate any lower than how they really are.
2008-05-15 15:22 < CaptainOrangeBea> ok.... I think that every politician in existence eats the souls of children the blood of puppies and cinnimon toast crunch
2008-05-15 15:22 < CaptainOrangeBea> how did I do?
2008-05-15 15:23 < quanticle> CaptainOrangeBea: You overestimated. Politicians eat Raisin Bran, obviously.
2008-05-15 15:25 < CaptainOrangeBea> *chirp* *chirp*
2008-05-15 15:26 * quanticle brings out the RAID.
2008-05-15 15:27 < CaptainOrangeBea> we should make a RAID competitor called PILLAGE
2008-05-15 15:27 < mattbuck> this is weird. i'm just going through listening to a Madness best of album and starring it, and it has been consistently 3,2,3,2,3,2....
2008-05-15 15:27 < CaptainOrangeBea> why you ask....
2008-05-15 15:27 < CaptainOrangeBea> because the PIRATES SAID SO!!!!!!
2008-05-15 15:28 < CaptainOrangeBea> avast me hearties
2008-05-15 15:29 < CaptainOrangeBea> cummon people... I'm feeling lonely up here...
2008-05-15 15:29 < CaptainOrangeBea> TALK DAMN YOU!!!!
2008-05-15 15:29 < CaptainOrangeBea> *goes and cries in corner*
2008-05-15 15:29 < ideogram> sheesh
2008-05-15 15:29 < quanticle> CapatainOrangeBea: Well, it could be a full on naming scheme - Pillage, Burn, Yarr!, etc.
2008-05-15 15:29 < ideogram> it's not like you're desperate or anything
2008-05-15 15:29 < CaptainOrangeBea> indeed
2008-05-15 15:29 < CaptainOrangeBea> lol
2008-05-15 15:30 < quanticle> CaptainOrangeBea: But I wouldn't name a RAID controller Rape, if I were you.
2008-05-15 15:30 < CaptainOrangeBea> *sniff* i have abandonment issues lol
2008-05-15 15:30 < ideogram> I remember one site had a naming scheme based on natural disasters
2008-05-15 15:31 < ideogram> eiarthquake, hurricane, headcrash
2008-05-15 15:31 < bumm13> woman?
2008-05-15 15:31 < ideogram> hahaha
2008-05-15 15:31 * bumm13 ducks
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> duck
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> duck
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> duck
2008-05-15 15:31 < quanticle> bumm13: You're lucky Leslie_S wasn't in the room.
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> duck
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> goose!!!!!!!
2008-05-15 15:31 < bumm13> meh
2008-05-15 15:31 * quanticle runs
2008-05-15 15:31 < CaptainOrangeBea> *runs in a circle*
2008-05-15 15:31 < ideogram> then there was the berkeley experimental computing facility, which got their computers for free and named them after scams
2008-05-15 15:32 < bumm13> heh
2008-05-15 15:32 < quanticle> ideogram: Such as?
2008-05-15 15:32 < ideogram> well, my mind is blanking atm
2008-05-15 15:32 * bumm13 imagines a computer named "Ponzi"
2008-05-15 15:32 * quanticle imagines a computer named ZZZBest
2008-05-15 15:32 < bumm13> 419 :-)
2008-05-15 15:32 < bumm13> Miss Cleo
2008-05-15 15:35 * bumm13 NP: Jimi Hendrix - Love or Confusion (1967)
2008-05-15 15:36 < CaptainOrangeBea> im gonna sing the doom song
2008-05-15 15:36 < CaptainOrangeBea> doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom doom!!!
2008-05-15 15:36 < quanticle> 'The Air Force wants a suite of hacker tools, to give it "access" to -- and "full control" of -- any kind of computer there is. And once the info warriors are in, the Air Force wants them to keep tabs on their "adversaries' information infrastructure completely undetected."'
2008-05-15 15:36 < snowolf> CaptainOrangeBea: stop it
2008-05-15 15:36 < bumm13> quanticle: ick
2008-05-15 15:36 < quanticle> CaptainOrangeBea: You're setting off the spam alarms.
2008-05-15 15:36 < quanticle> bumm13: Yeah, that's what I said.
2008-05-15 15:37 < bumm13> I didn't realize the Air Force was also the NSA ;p
2008-05-15 15:37 < quanticle> bumm13: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/05/air-force-mater.html
2008-05-15 15:37 < morwen> quanticle: also, i want a cake that doesn't make me fat
2008-05-15 15:37 < ideogram> the cake is a lie
2008-05-15 15:38 < quanticle> '“Cyber, as a warfighting domain . . . like air, favors the offense,” said Lani Kass, director of the Air Force’s Cyberspace Task Force, while presenting the elements of the National Military Strategy for Cyberspace Operations (NMSCO) last week.'
2008-05-15 15:38 < morwen> and a pony on wheels!
2008-05-15 15:38 < quanticle> morwen: Its called a motorcycle.
2008-05-15 15:38 < bumm13> this sort of thinking will only lead to disaster
2008-05-15 15:38 < bumm13> it's ridiculous
2008-05-15 15:38 < morwen> quanticle: they don't nuzzle you in a cute manner
2008-05-15 15:38 < quanticle> bumm13: Yeah, the quote regarding people in glass houses organizing rock throwing contests comes to mind.
2008-05-15 15:38 < morwen> bumm13: have they not seen 'Terminator 2'?
2008-05-15 15:39 < bumm13> then again, the USAF also wanted like $50 quintillion in the next government budget ;p
2008-05-15 15:39 < bumm13> heh
2008-05-15 15:39 < ideogram> people make stupid requirements and then wonder why they programmers they hire turn out to be stupid
2008-05-15 15:39 < quanticle> morwen: Funny, that's what the first Slashdot tag for the story was.
2008-05-15 15:39 < techqbert> Is there a specific name for those animated books where one flips the pages and sees an animation?
2008-05-15 15:39 < quanticle> techqbert: Flipbook.
2008-05-15 15:39 < morwen> quanticle: gah, i am too predictable!
2008-05-15 15:40 < quanticle> 'On Oct. 3, the Senate authorized up to $4 million be made available for the Cyberspace Innovation Center for Cyber Combat Development.'
2008-05-15 15:40 < ideogram> hahahaha
2008-05-15 15:40 < quanticle> Huh. So that's what its reaaaalllly about.
2008-05-15 15:40 < bumm13> while the U.S. military starts getting "cyber-crazy", the real enemies will just hire poor white people to set off bombs in public places ;p
2008-05-15 15:40 < ideogram> that would pay for a staff of forty
2008-05-15 15:40 < Vystrix_Nexoth> they still call it "cyberspace"?
2008-05-15 15:40 < CptnOrangeBeard> I gotta say... I could have done some cool crap with that kind of money
2008-05-15 15:41 < bumm13> like shave off your beard?
2008-05-15 15:41 < techqbert> Makes enough sense :D Thanks quanticle. I couldn't find a flipbook under the Book article, granted the Types segment focused on structural differences
2008-05-15 15:41 < CptnOrangeBeard> silence knave
2008-05-15 15:41 < kennedy> hey folks
2008-05-15 15:41 < bumm13> knave?
2008-05-15 15:41 < CptnOrangeBeard> for sooth
2008-05-15 15:41 < ideogram> i thought you were a pirate
2008-05-15 15:41 < quanticle> ideogram: That's the thing. Its not the money, its another petty inter-branch struggle between the various military commands.
2008-05-15 15:41 < CptnOrangeBeard> so?
2008-05-15 15:41 < bumm13> quanticle: of course
2008-05-15 15:42 < CptnOrangeBeard> I can be a medieval pirate if i want...