freenode #wikipedia

2008-05-14 16:45 < Mole2> Mahlzahn: From what I read they knew a lot since they wrote some pretty advanced stuff on it.
2008-05-14 16:45 < Mahlzahn> I read somewhere that Paine's 'Common Sense' was copied all over the place.
2008-05-14 16:45 < Mole2> But still, no one could have foreseen the kind of world we live in today.
2008-05-14 16:46 < Sky2042> Mahlzahn: the Constitution provides for patents, which can quite easily be extended to copyright / trademark / etc.
2008-05-14 16:46 < Mole2> Mahlzahn: What is that?
2008-05-14 16:46 < Mahlzahn> Mole2: [[Thomas Paine]]
2008-05-14 16:46 < Mole2> Ouch, yeah, patents are evil.
2008-05-14 16:46 < Messedrocker> patents are good BECAUSE they're limited
2008-05-14 16:46 < Mole2> My employers have several times wanted to patent things I learnt during my work. Just because it was new "discoveries".
2008-05-14 16:47 < Mole2> Hell, they even tried to patent things I developed before they employed me...
2008-05-14 16:47 < Sky2042> Common Sense was a set of papers written by Paine to convince people that we didn't like how england was ruling us, as well as supported the adoption of a federal govt.
2008-05-14 16:47 < Messedrocker> a temporary monopoly is a good way for an inventive thinker to get compensated for his efforts, especially if he or she had to blow a ton of money on getting the invention to work
2008-05-14 16:47 < Mahlzahn> yes, Messedrocker is right
2008-05-14 16:47 < Messedrocker> copyright should work the same way
2008-05-14 16:48 < Sky2042> Mole2: as for "no-one could have forseen"... oh yes they did.
2008-05-14 16:48 < Mole2> Messedrocker: The problem is that most of the inventions are done when the time is right, that is several teams independently invent the same thing at about the same time.
2008-05-14 16:48 < Mahlzahn> Sky2042: thats a rather simplistic take on it, but effectively, yes. :)
2008-05-14 16:48 < Mole2> Which means that most of those get nothing and only one get to exploit it.
2008-05-14 16:48 < Messedrocker> mole2, why can't they hold a joint patent?
2008-05-14 16:48 < Sky2042> Mahlzahn: heh, i was going off what i remembered from Gov / History class.
2008-05-14 16:49 < Mole2> Look at the phone, several people had developed it at the time Bell patented it, and another guy filed a patent the same day, but some hour later so he got nothing.
2008-05-14 16:50 < Mole2> Actually, from what I read the reason Bell got the patent was that one of his friends ran to the patent office with it since he heard that other guy was going, and thus htey beat that other guy to it.
2008-05-14 16:50 < Demi> that burrito was so messy i had to change my clothes
2008-05-14 16:51 < Mole2> Demi: Haha, "burrito". I wonder if I ever have eaten a burrito.
2008-05-14 16:51 < Mahlzahn> Demi: don't stick Burrito's down your pants. It rarely works well.
2008-05-14 16:51 * Mole2 goes looking up exactly what a burrito is.
2008-05-14 16:51 < Sky2042> Mole2: I doubt you have. It's a distinctly Mexican food.
2008-05-14 16:51 * Mahlzahn smiles at Mole2
2008-05-14 16:51 < Sky2042> Beans in a soft tortilla at its most basic.
2008-05-14 16:52 < Mole2> Sky2042: Well, we have some Mexican food here in Sweden. Tacos with filling are very popular here.
2008-05-14 16:52 < Mahlzahn> Sky2042: um, so? You don't get cheese in the US?
2008-05-14 16:52 < Sky2042> Mole2: Oh, but it's not mexican food. ;)
2008-05-14 16:52 < Sky2042> it's swedish mexican food. which is different :P
2008-05-14 16:52 < Sky2042> usually*
2008-05-14 16:52 < Mole2> Yeah! :))
2008-05-14 16:52 < Mahlzahn> heh!
2008-05-14 16:53 < Sky2042> Mahlzahn: I do get cheese. But burritos were designed for beans and tortillas.
2008-05-14 16:53 < Sky2042> you can feed a lot of people with corn, beans, and tortillas.
2008-05-14 16:53 < Mahlzahn> what I meant was... cuisine is universal nowadays
2008-05-14 16:54 < Mole2> [[Burrito]] seems like nice food. But I have never eaten it.
2008-05-14 16:54 < Demi> it's more western/southwestern than mexican, in the modern country sense
2008-05-14 16:54 < Mole2> Yeah, corn is good stuff in many ways.
2008-05-14 16:54 < Demi> it's mexican in the historical mexico sense
2008-05-14 16:54 < Mahlzahn> its only when you have strange laws, like the US phobia with cheese, that some things don't catch on.
2008-05-14 16:55 < Mole2> What phobia does the US have with cheese?
2008-05-14 16:55 < Sky2042> Mahlzahn: Again, I'd disagree. Food made in Sweden has a different taste than that made in Mexico than that in the United States. And then there's fast food.
2008-05-14 16:55 < Mole2> I thought the americans loved cheese?
2008-05-14 16:55 < Sky2042> Mole2: We do.
2008-05-14 16:55 < Mahlzahn> my aunt (who lives in Canada) thought Kraft cheese was the "best cheese in the world" (no kidding).
2008-05-14 16:55 < Demi> he's talking about young, raw cheese, which you can't sell in the u.s. generally
2008-05-14 16:55 < Mahlzahn> yep
2008-05-14 16:56 < Demi> you can't usually sell cheese made from unpasteurized milk and aged for less than, i think, 30 or 60 days
2008-05-14 16:56 < Mole2> Right, even when you travel between Sweden and Germany (just some hours by bus) the "Turkish" döner kebabs and the "Japanese" Sushi tastes different.
2008-05-14 16:56 < Mahlzahn> anything made of unpasteurized milk I think.
2008-05-14 16:56 < Demi> Mahlzahn - no
2008-05-14 16:56 < Mahlzahn> I see it.
2008-05-14 16:57 < Mahlzahn> "edit collision" :)
2008-05-14 16:57 < Demi> "chinese" food seems to vary regionally quite a bit
2008-05-14 16:57 < Mole2> Oh! You are talking about [[quark]]? I love quark!
2008-05-14 16:57 < Mahlzahn> even in China.
2008-05-14 16:57 < Mahlzahn> no, not quark.
2008-05-14 16:57 < Demi> right, though i was thinking more about how chinese food gets adapted in restaurant cuisine in other countries
2008-05-14 16:58 < Dendodge> a generic type of physical particle that forms one of the two basic constituents of matter???
2008-05-14 16:58 < Mole2> Well, china is almost as big as Europe, bigger if you count by population. And considering how European food differs from region to region then I guess the same thing is true in China.
2008-05-14 16:58 < Mole2> Dendodge: [[Quark (cheese)]]
2008-05-14 16:59 < totic> Hi I found a bug in one of the Templates, and I am not sure how to fix it
2008-05-14 16:59 < Mole2> I wonder how the "European" food tastes in restaurants in the US and in Asia. :))
2008-05-14 16:59 < Dendodge> which?
2008-05-14 16:59 < totic> the template for Infobox_terrorist_attack
2008-05-14 16:59 < totic> has an optional field "motive"
2008-05-14 16:59 < Mole2> Ouch, an infobox.
2008-05-14 17:00 < Mahlzahn> sheesh, we have infoboxes for nutty things like that?
2008-05-14 17:00 < totic> yet the Oklahoma city bombing has this field in it, yet its not being displayed
2008-05-14 17:00 < Demi> Mole2 - french food at least has a pretty long history in the u.s.
2008-05-14 17:00 * Mole2 goes looking at totic's template.
2008-05-14 17:01 < Demi> italian food is probably more often italian-american food, but there's the whole gamut of authenticity and quality there, probably
2008-05-14 17:01 < Mole2> Haha, funny. The template name [[Template:Infobox_terrorist_attack]] is redirected to [[Template:Infobox civilian attack]]. :))
2008-05-14 17:01 < totic> yeah,
2008-05-14 17:01 < Mahlzahn> totic: add a comment to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Infobox_civilian_attack
2008-05-14 17:02 < Mole2> totic: There is no "motive" parameter in the code.
2008-05-14 17:02 < Dendodge> >:( Mole2
2008-05-14 17:03 < Dendodge> I was about to say that
2008-05-14 17:03 < totic> They hav this comment about it
2008-05-14 17:03 < Mole2> totic: Have you seen the edit history of that template?
2008-05-14 17:03 < totic> They have a comment about it, so should I change it to Claimed_Motive
2008-05-14 17:03 < totic> nope
2008-05-14 17:04 < Mahlzahn> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AInfobox_civilian_attack&diff=176459410&oldid=176459199
2008-05-14 17:04 < Mole2> totic: So go look at the edit history of [[Template:Infobox civilian attack]].
2008-05-14 17:04 < Mole2> That "motive" parameter has been argued about a lot it seems.
2008-05-14 17:04 < Mahlzahn> they removed it. But forgot to remove it from the documentation.
2008-05-14 17:05 < Mole2> totic: And there is a discussion about the "motive" parameter at its talkpage too.
2008-05-14 17:05 < Mole2> Gah!
2008-05-14 17:06 < Mole2> Seems totic is under attack. :)
2008-05-14 17:06 < geniice> "Gossiping about other wikipedians behind their backs is prohibited" So how exactly are we defineing wikipedians here?
2008-05-14 17:07 < Messedrocker> wikipedia editurrrz
2008-05-14 17:07 < Sky2042> pplz who iz uzin the pedia.
2008-05-14 17:08 < Messedrocker> crap, i didn't mean to speak in lolcat
2008-05-14 17:08 < Messedrocker> oh shit
2008-05-14 17:08 < Mole2> :))
2008-05-14 17:08 < Demi> and what's gossipping?
2008-05-14 17:08 < Mole2> totic: Have you seen the edit history of that template?
2008-05-14 17:08 < Mole2> totic: So go look at the edit history of [[Template:Infobox civilian attack]].
2008-05-14 17:08 < Mole2> totic: And there is a discussion about the "motive" parameter at its talkpage too.
2008-05-14 17:08 < Mole2> Seems totic is under attack. :)
2008-05-14 17:09 < totic> Yeah but the talk page said that they changed it
2008-05-14 17:09 < totic> to claimed motive
2008-05-14 17:09 < Mole2> Right. But the new parameter name isn't there anymore. So they totally removed it it seems.
2008-05-14 17:09 < Rinn> Quark quark quark quark quark quark
2008-05-14 17:09 < Messedrocker> Demi, did you hear JzG is not PRO-WOMYN?
2008-05-14 17:09 < Messedrocker> ^ that'd be gossipping
2008-05-14 17:09 * Mole2 just had quark for breakfast today.
2008-05-14 17:09 < Rinn> Smock smock smock smock smock smock
2008-05-14 17:10 < Mahlzahn> Mole2 / totic: its gone from the documentation too. ;)
2008-05-14 17:10 < Mole2> Mahlzahn: Good.
2008-05-14 17:10 < Mahlzahn> Messedrocker: "just the facts" :)
2008-05-14 17:10 * The359 sigh
2008-05-14 17:10 < geniice> Mole2 POV name " civilian" is POV
2008-05-14 17:11 < Mole2> geniice: Yes I agree.
2008-05-14 17:11 < The359> IP address adding "This car appears in Gran Turismo 4 if you win this race and if you had stage 4 turbocharging it's the most powerful car in the game based on these numbers!"
2008-05-14 17:11 < The359> Revert
2008-05-14 17:11 < Mole2> The powerful always like to call the guerillas for "illegal combatants" and similar. :(
2008-05-14 17:11 < The359> he reverts me back :(
2008-05-14 17:11 < totic> but I liked that field :(
2008-05-14 17:11 < Mahlzahn> geniice: I think we all agree. But better than "non-combatant" :)
2008-05-14 17:11 < Sky2042> hey, is there a wikipedia vg channel?...
2008-05-14 17:12 < Mahlzahn> The359: article?
2008-05-14 17:12 < totic> but I liked that field :(
2008-05-14 17:12 < Mole2> I think the name "civilian attack" sounds very weird. What do they mean? Attack on civilians? Or an attack done by civilians?
2008-05-14 17:12 < The359> [[Toyota 7]]
2008-05-14 17:12 < The359> I already reverted him again and warned the IP user
2008-05-14 17:12 < WonRyong> hi
2008-05-14 17:12 < geniice> Mahlzahn define combat. I mean technicaly if I'm shooting at you you are involved in combat no?
2008-05-14 17:12 < Mahlzahn> totic: its obviously problematic, so its best to let it go.
2008-05-14 17:12 < The359> I'm waiting to see what he does next
2008-05-14 17:13 < Mahlzahn> The359: adding to watch...
2008-05-14 17:13 < totic> Why is it incorrect?
2008-05-14 17:13 < The359> no need, he's only done it twice
2008-05-14 17:13 < The359> and it happened in the past five minutse
2008-05-14 17:13 < The359> I'm sure he'll move on
2008-05-14 17:13 < Mole2> geniice: Not if it is the US shooting at others. If they shoot back then the US calls them "illegal combatants" or something like that.
2008-05-14 17:13 < totic> I understand you just wanted the documentation to reflect the code...
2008-05-14 17:14 < The359> nevermind, he reverted me again
2008-05-14 17:14 < geniice> Mole2 US strategic security is based on the ability to kill millions of babies. Defintion would appear to be inconsistant
2008-05-14 17:14 < Mole2> totic: Yeah, I find the motive interesting too. I mean, if someone goes to the trouble to make a big bomb and deliver it, then his motive is pretty interesting.
2008-05-14 17:15 < Mole2> geniice: I don't fully understand what you mean. But I agree the US has many means to, and often do, kill babies.
2008-05-14 17:15 < totic> I even already told my robot how to understand that field
2008-05-14 17:15 < totic> http://start.csail.mit.edu/startfarm.cgi
2008-05-14 17:15 < totic> ask it: what was the motive behind the Oklahoma City bombing
2008-05-14 17:15 < totic> http://start.csail.mit.edu/
2008-05-14 17:16 < geniice> Mole2 calculate likely baby death toll from strategic level nuclear strike
2008-05-14 17:16 < Sky2042> nukes are for pansies.
2008-05-14 17:16 < geniice> totic objection to the federal goverment
2008-05-14 17:16 < geniice> Sky2042 they are efficient
2008-05-14 17:16 < Mole2> No idea why the Oklahoma bomber did it. But the Baskian issues in Spain is pretty simple in a way: The Spanish gov removes their right to vote, so they throw bombs, then the Spanish gov claims they remove their rights to vote because they bomb.
2008-05-14 17:17 < Sky2042> geniice: efficient for who? they cost more than a standard bomb and leave stuff behind that can kill innocents.
2008-05-14 17:17 < Sky2042> strategic or not.
2008-05-14 17:17 < Mole2> geniice: I kind of thought you meant nukes. But the US and Europe together killed more than a million Iraqis during the 90's (many of them being babies) by other means.
2008-05-14 17:17 < geniice> Sky2042 have you any idea how much it would cost to deliver a convetional kilotone bomb
2008-05-14 17:18 < totic> No I meant go the website and ask the bot
2008-05-14 17:18 < Sky2042> why would one need to deliver a kiloton bomb? if it's tactical usage, why not use an armor / shelter buster?
2008-05-14 17:18 < geniice> Mole2 and it was bloody expensive.
2008-05-14 17:18 < geniice> Sky2042 because that leaves people alive
2008-05-14 17:19 < Mole2> I wonder which is cheaper: Spray a country with bad stuff like mines and "depleted" uranium, and then blockade it so it can not buy medicines and water cleaning equippment and let people die slowly, or to make a nuke and drop it.
2008-05-14 17:19 < Sky2042> true, but it also leaves a lesser chance of collateral.
2008-05-14 17:19 < Sky2042> Mole2: undoubtedly the mines.
2008-05-14 17:19 < Mole2> Yeah, mines are very cheap.
2008-05-14 17:19 < Sky2042> geniice: and truly, if it's a tactical usage, you don't need to nuke.
2008-05-14 17:20 < Sky2042> a tactical usage suggests that you're trying to kill a specific person, not the specific person and 20 others.
2008-05-14 17:20 < Mole2> Although my country (Sweden) has made a fortune in selling mines. And now we make a fortune in selling mine clearing equippment. :(
2008-05-14 17:20 < geniice> Sky2042 it would require quite a large nuke to hit more than one country at once
2008-05-14 17:20 < Sky2042> regardless of neutrality.
2008-05-14 17:20 < Mole2> geniice: No problem, just drop a small nuke right on the border. :)
2008-05-14 17:20 < Sky2042> Mole2: chuckle.
2008-05-14 17:20 * Sky2042 suggests a biological weapon.
2008-05-14 17:21 < WonRyong> I have aquestion on IRC use.
2008-05-14 17:21 < Mole2> Yeah, it is weird, why have we not heard of any major bio or chemical attacks against citys yet?
2008-05-14 17:21 < Sky2042> WonRyong: hmm?
2008-05-14 17:21 < Sky2042> Mole2: you do have to wonder.
2008-05-14 17:21 < WonRyong> in kowiki IRC channel
2008-05-14 17:21 < Mole2> Sky2042: It can't be THAT hard to poison the drinking water or so?
2008-05-14 17:21 < Demi> biological and chemical weapons are actually hard to deliver effectively
2008-05-14 17:21 < WonRyong> some people join for 24 hours
2008-05-14 17:21 < WonRyong> how to?
2008-05-14 17:22 < Sky2042> Demi: yes.
2008-05-14 17:22 < Sky2042> WonRyong: leave your computer on and set irc to auto rejoin in case of redirects.
2008-05-14 17:22 < WonRyong> they don't sleep?
2008-05-14 17:22 < Sky2042> s/redirects/reconnects.
2008-05-14 17:22 < Sky2042> no, the computers don't sleep. the people usually do.
2008-05-14 17:22 < Mole2> WonRyong: Hang on, I'll check for the proper name for the kowiki IRC channel.
2008-05-14 17:23 < Demi> i don't really like lurking all the time but i have campers, for one
2008-05-14 17:23 < WonRyong> so, thier computer is on for 24 hours?
2008-05-14 17:23 < WonRyong> oh
2008-05-14 17:23 < geniice> Mole2 very few worthwhile targets are on the boarder
2008-05-14 17:23 < geniice> Sky2042 the aim of war is to win. The most effective way to do this detonate nukes of the apropate size over opposeing cities
2008-05-14 17:23 < WonRyong> kowiki use irc.hanirc.org
2008-05-14 17:24 < geniice> people sleep wikipedians edit
2008-05-14 17:24 < Sky2042> geniice: the aim of a war is not to win, but rather to complete all objectivves.
2008-05-14 17:24 < Sky2042> geniice: one objective is usually retaining infrastructure, which includes people.
2008-05-14 17:24 < Sky2042> you feel like ruling over a dead man's town, be my guest.
2008-05-14 17:24 < Sky2042> ;P
2008-05-14 17:25 < geniice> Sky2042 Lot less hard than true to rule over a bunch of living people
2008-05-14 17:25 < Sky2042> geniice: rephrase. that didn't come out like i think it should have :o
2008-05-14 17:27 < geniice> No matter wikipedia's relivant articles are mostly pretty lets move on
2008-05-14 17:28 * Mole2 needs dinner and needs to get on with his template coding. IRC is distracting.
2008-05-14 17:29 < Sky2042> geniice: oh, i was actually having a discussion (was I supposed to be? :o )
2008-05-14 17:30 < Demi> the only winning move is not to play!
2008-05-14 17:31 < Sky2042> Demi: l2quote.
2008-05-14 17:33 < geniice> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bash
2008-05-14 17:34 < Demi> i
2008-05-14 17:34 < Demi> don't understand your jargon
2008-05-14 17:36 < Sky2042> Demi: it's short for "Learn to quote".
2008-05-14 17:38 < Demi> Sky2042 - i don't understand your point
2008-05-14 17:38 < WonRyong> hi
2008-05-14 17:38 < Sky2042> Demi: in that specific case, cite your source. that didn't come out of nowhere. :P
2008-05-14 17:39 < Demi> i came up with it myself but then matthew broderick looked over my shoulder. those hollywood phonies. i'll never forgive them for what they did to my boy.
2008-05-14 17:43 < Sky2042> uh huh...
2008-05-14 17:43 < Sky2042> bah@navbox.
2008-05-14 17:45 < Sky2042> I've got it all set up nicely, but the <th>s aren't showing up in correct color.
2008-05-14 17:45 < Sky2042> ie, no color.
2008-05-14 17:45 < geniice> I have that problem from time to time aparently wiki markup won't accept colour
2008-05-14 17:46 < Sky2042> clear my cache i think :/
2008-05-14 17:46 < Demi> it's probably color-blind, like a good bleeding-heart liberal. political correctness gone awry.
2008-05-14 17:47 < Sky2042> that /is/ frustrating.
2008-05-14 17:48 < Sky2042> ok, that is weird. must be a failing with the parsers :/
2008-05-14 17:49 < Sky2042> as usual.
2008-05-14 17:53 < Messedrocker> is ASP.NET worth bothering with?
2008-05-14 17:57 < Mahlzahn> could someone please try adding a {{db-person}} to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olga_O._Savina ?
2008-05-14 17:57 < Mahlzahn> for some unfathomable reason my browser just shows a blank page when I try to save
2008-05-14 17:58 < Mahlzahn> nm. It worked now.
2008-05-14 17:58 < Mahlzahn> strange
2008-05-14 17:59 < geniice> what does wikipedia think?
2008-05-14 17:59 < Sky2042> myspace ftw!
2008-05-14 17:59 < Mike_H> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zza8anGaUEs
2008-05-14 17:59 < Mike_H> on your side!
2008-05-14 18:05 < Mahlzahn> moo. should I add a {{db-author}} to a page that an new-article author has himself blanked?
2008-05-14 18:06 < Krimpet> Mahlzahn: yep
2008-05-14 18:06 < Mahlzahn> thx
2008-05-14 18:07 < Mahlzahn> I should have read the dang text before asking stupid questions.
2008-05-14 18:07 < DrSkullthumper> Oh nice, ED is back on the wiki I see
2008-05-14 18:08 < Mahlzahn> good
2008-05-14 18:08 < DrSkullthumper> "parody"?!
2008-05-14 18:08 < DrSkullthumper> It's a wiki, but it's not a wikipedia parody
2008-05-14 18:08 < DrSkullthumper> It's just a wiki
2008-05-14 18:09 < Mahlzahn> "using apparently comprehensive referencing and linking, but in a satirical and often abusive style.[citation needed]" <= now, *thats* wikilawyering WP:OR
2008-05-14 18:10 < DrSkullthumper> Heh, abusive to the eyes maybe
2008-05-14 18:10 < DrSkullthumper> Somebody find a source that says it's a parody, then fine
2008-05-14 18:10 < DrSkullthumper> But just because something's a wiki, doesn't mean it's a parody.
2008-05-14 18:10 < Demi> maybe someone could find a "source" saying anything about it, that would probably be more effective
2008-05-14 18:11 < DrSkullthumper> ED is practically a personal website
2008-05-14 18:11 < Messedrocker> ED is not really a parody
2008-05-14 18:11 < DrSkullthumper> So why does the Wikipedia article say it is?
2008-05-14 18:11 < Messedrocker> it's an Internet culture wiki
2008-05-14 18:12 < Messedrocker> or more specifically, a *chan culture wiki
2008-05-14 18:12 < Messedrocker> *chan and LiveJournal
2008-05-14 18:12 * DrSkullthumper nods in agreement
2008-05-14 18:12 < Demi> there's a livejournal culture?
2008-05-14 18:12 < Krimpet> far as I can tell, it's a small trollish clique's group of in-jokes, that was later co-opted by a bunch of 4channers
2008-05-14 18:12 < DrSkullthumper> Messedrocker: And yet, first sentence in the (protected!) article: Encyclopedia Dramatica is a *parody* of internet encylopedias... why?
2008-05-14 18:13 < DrSkullthumper> Krimpet: I believe the 4channers caused the in-jokes, and then they're documented in ED. I think.
2008-05-14 18:13 < Messedrocker> DrSkullthumper, I guess you could say the *format* is a tongue-in-cheek reference to the way wikipedia is set up
2008-05-14 18:13 < Ziggy_Sawdust> ...?
2008-05-14 18:13 < DrSkullthumper> Messedrocker, it uses MediaWiki, how's that a parody?
2008-05-14 18:13 < Ziggy_Sawdust> oh lawd
2008-05-14 18:13 < DrSkullthumper> Lots of wikis use MediaWiki
2008-05-14 18:13 < Demi> the problem with non-notable subjects is you can say everything and nothing about them
2008-05-14 18:13 < Ziggy_Sawdust> IN DURING SHITSTORM
2008-05-14 18:14 < DrSkullthumper> Demi: If it's non-notable, why does it even have an article then?
2008-05-14 18:14 < Demi> DrSkullthumper - good question
2008-05-14 18:14 < Messedrocker> DrSkullthumper, it is possible they chose MediaWiki for comedic effect, but I really don't know. Any argument that suggests ED is a parody of anything is weak
2008-05-14 18:14 * quanticle back
2008-05-14 18:14 < DrSkullthumper> Messedrocker, I agree, and there's no sources to suggest such, which really disturbs me
2008-05-14 18:14 < DrSkullthumper> Anyway, I'm off for a few hours, Toodles
2008-05-14 18:15 < quanticle> Messedrocker: ED is not a parody, it is an abomination...
2008-05-14 18:15 < Demi> i don't know if that guy was a real doctor
2008-05-14 18:15 < quanticle> Uncyclopedia is a parody.
2008-05-14 18:15 < Krimpet> both are criminally unfunny. :p
2008-05-14 18:15 < Gracenotes> ED isn't a parody... they're their own entity with their own purpose
2008-05-14 18:15 < Demi> i wish uncyclopedia were funnier
2008-05-14 18:16 < quanticle> Krimpet: I don't know. Uncyclopedia gets the occasional chuckle. ED is only useful as a reference source when I'm e-slumming.
2008-05-14 18:16 < Gracenotes> ED satires more than it parodies
2008-05-14 18:16 < Demi> though the question of why a collaborative humor site probably can't be that funny is related to the question of whether wikipedia could be well-written
2008-05-14 18:16 < Dendodge> Uncyclopedia's funny, ED's just an attack page
2008-05-14 18:16 < quanticle> Gracenotes: It doesn't even do that. ED merely chronicles *-Chan memes for the most part.
2008-05-14 18:17 < Sky2042> the DRV is rather intriguiging; we see a handful of users IDONTLIKEIT... quite interesting.
2008-05-14 18:17 < Sky2042> s/IDONT/DONT
2008-05-14 18:17 < Dendodge> They've got articles about certain Wikipedia editors calling them paedos!
2008-05-14 18:17 < quanticle> Dendodge: I don't think ED is an "attack" page, unless you're grouping the vast majority of humanity into a single attackable group.
2008-05-14 18:17 < Dendodge> They just attack Wikipedia
2008-05-14 18:17 < Gracenotes> quanticle: yes, that's due to some of the editing groups being of /b/ origin
2008-05-14 18:18 < Krimpet> uncyclopedia just has this whole "omg we're so WACKY" feel to it that I despise
2008-05-14 18:18 < Demi> near its inception it was definitely geared toward attacking wikipedia editors, maybe not so much anymore
2008-05-14 18:18 < Gracenotes> Dendodge: have you seen ED for yourself, or just heard about it from others?
2008-05-14 18:18 < Demi> Krimpet - they can't sustain a consistent comedic tone
2008-05-14 18:18 < Dendodge> I've browsed it
2008-05-14 18:18 < Gracenotes> how much of it? just the small Wikipedia parts?
2008-05-14 18:18 < quanticle> Dendodge: Meh. They don't really attack Wikipedia. They chronicle *-chan memes for the most part. The fact that some of those memes attack Wikipedia is only incidental.
2008-05-14 18:19 < geniice> ED is like 4chan with extra suck
2008-05-14 18:19 < Krimpet> it seems to be that the /b/ "anonymous" crowd just loves baiting and trolling others, posting their personal info, harassing them via phone/IRL, etc., which is the worst part.
2008-05-14 18:19 < Dendodge> I just think it... technically, UK law could be interpreted as prohibiting that site
2008-05-14 18:19 < Gracenotes> quanticle: that's one part of it. just like attacking Wikipedia is one part of it, and enumerating notable YouTube users is another.
2008-05-14 18:20 < geniice> Dendodge UK law prohibits at least bits of wikipedia
2008-05-14 18:20 < Dendodge> well, yes, but...
2008-05-14 18:21 < Gracenotes> but we have nothing but love and understand for the subjects of our articles?
2008-05-14 18:21 < Gracenotes> +ing
2008-05-14 18:21 < Dendodge> Yes
2008-05-14 18:21 < Dendodge> They just despise all of humanity
2008-05-14 18:21 < Dendodge> The article on them's a bit POV though
2008-05-14 18:22 < Demi> should saying that someone is gay constitute a defamation?
2008-05-14 18:22 < Ziggy_Sawdust> aaah
2008-05-14 18:22 < Dendodge> can do
2008-05-14 18:22 < quanticle> geniice: No. ED is the same suck as 4-chan. It just feels like extra suck, because its all concentrated.
2008-05-14 18:22 < quanticle> Gracenotes: I guess so. I just know that's all I've ever used ED for - reference material when browsing 4-chan.
2008-05-14 18:22 < Ziggy_Sawdust> ...
2008-05-14 18:23 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 4-chan?
2008-05-14 18:23 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 4chan
2008-05-14 18:23 < Ziggy_Sawdust> one fucking word
2008-05-14 18:23 < Gracenotes> 4/chan
2008-05-14 18:23 * Dendodge has never, and will never, USE ED for ANY purpose
2008-05-14 18:23 < Demi> yeah? next you'll tell us it's not "trans-formers"
2008-05-14 18:23 < Krimpet> four channel?
2008-05-14 18:23 < Ziggy_Sawdust> swear to Cthulhu, next time I see "four chan" or "4-chan" or "4/chan" or "Fred", I will not hesitate to crack ckulls
2008-05-14 18:24 < Ziggy_Sawdust> from 2chan = 2-channel
2008-05-14 18:24 * Sky2042 4chans Ziggy_Sawdust.
2008-05-14 18:24 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 2chan, iichan, 4chan, 7chan, 12chan, 420chan
2008-05-14 18:24 < Ziggy_Sawdust> #4
2008-05-14 18:24 * Ziggy_Sawdust /joins #4
2008-05-14 18:24 < Gracenotes> how about /join 0
2008-05-14 18:24 < Gracenotes> :)
2008-05-14 18:24 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [18:24] [INFO] Channel view for “#0” opened.
2008-05-14 18:24 < Demi> i think you mean /join's
2008-05-14 18:25 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [18:24] -->| YOU (Ziggy_Sawdust) have joined #0
2008-05-14 18:25 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [18:24] *ChanServ* [#0] Welcome to #0 - the channel that shouldn't exist...
2008-05-14 18:25 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: You're 4-channer, aren't you?
2008-05-14 18:25 < Gracenotes> technically it shouldn't.
2008-05-14 18:25 < Ziggy_Sawdust> quanticle: dear god
2008-05-14 18:25 < Ziggy_Sawdust> murk loar
2008-05-14 18:25 * quanticle cracks Ziggy_Sawdust's skull
2008-05-14 18:25 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: STFU newfag
2008-05-14 18:25 < Krimpet> the correct procedure is to go into #0, press ALT-F4, and be rewarded with wine, women, and song
2008-05-14 18:26 < Ziggy_Sawdust> gb2/4chan/
2008-05-14 18:26 < Gracenotes> the IRC RFCs have a specific meaning for JOIN 0. silly freenode.
2008-05-14 18:26 < quanticle> Krimpet: Except if you're on Linux. Then the correct procedure is Ctrl-C.
2008-05-14 18:26 < Gracenotes> /join 0 used to be as awesome as /server printer
2008-05-14 18:26 < geniice> Ctrl-X
2008-05-14 18:26 < Krimpet> geez, 4chan still uses those rehashed SA Forums catchphrases from 2003? :p
2008-05-14 18:26 < quanticle> Krimpet: What, "newfag"?
2008-05-14 18:27 < Ziggy_Sawdust> The correct procedure is to spray your computer down with a fire hose, douse it in gasoline, throw magnets at it, and set it on fire
2008-05-14 18:27 < Krimpet> no, "lurk more," "gb2,"...
2008-05-14 18:27 < Demi> stfu, goober
2008-05-14 18:27 < geniice> Ziggy_Sawdust ah you've uninstalled winME ?
2008-05-14 18:27 < Krimpet> oh and "o rly." :p
2008-05-14 18:27 < quanticle> Krimpet: Ah, no idea. I do see them on 4-chan, but I'm not sure of their actual origin.
2008-05-14 18:27 < quanticle> Krimpet: ORLY started on SA?
2008-05-14 18:27 < Ziggy_Sawdust> O RLY comes from the bowels of the internets
2008-05-14 18:28 < Krimpet> yeah, I remember its origin.
2008-05-14 18:28 < Gracenotes> Krimpet: it's not a specific culture... it's "internet culture". Some memes are just more concentrated in certain places :) ED is biases towards chan cultures...
2008-05-14 18:28 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Like lulz?
2008-05-14 18:28 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 4chan =/= 7chan =/= ED =/= Internet =/= *chan =/= /b/
2008-05-14 18:28 < Ziggy_Sawdust> all of those sites are exclusive of one another
2008-05-14 18:28 < Gracenotes> yes, but their memes aren't.
2008-05-14 18:28 < quanticle> Gracenotes: That's because a significant portion of ED contributors see ED as a place to archive /b/ memes.
2008-05-14 18:28 * Krimpet loathes the term "meme"
2008-05-14 18:28 < Ziggy_Sawdust> *chan is the preferred term for referring to the entire business
2008-05-14 18:29 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Nonsense. /b/ is common across all 'chans.
2008-05-14 18:29 < Gracenotes> Krimpet: what else do you have, though, to describe such things
2008-05-14 18:29 < Ziggy_Sawdust> unless you're specifically referring to 4chan in and of itself, simply say *chan
2008-05-14 18:29 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: /b/ is the common thread that unites the *chans.
2008-05-14 18:29 < Krimpet> Gracenotes: fads, catchphrases, etc.
2008-05-14 18:29 < Ziggy_Sawdust> because when you talk about memes, /b/, and whatnot, it's present on 4chan, 7chan, and every other chan
2008-05-14 18:29 < quanticle> Krimpet: Fad, then.
2008-05-14 18:29 < Demi> man, this pizza is tasty
2008-05-14 18:30 < Ziggy_Sawdust> People on 7chan would be offended if you compared them to 4chan
2008-05-14 18:30 < Krimpet> "meme" just has this whole "OMG WEB 2.0" feel, I think. :p
2008-05-14 18:30 < Gracenotes> Krimpet: eh. that's about as descriptive as "meme" as Dawkins meant it
2008-05-14 18:30 < Demi> Krimpet - i do, too
2008-05-14 18:30 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and vice versa
2008-05-14 18:30 < Gracenotes> which is not very descriptive at all
2008-05-14 18:30 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: And Germans would be offended if you compared them to the French, despite the fact that they're both white Europeans, and are indistinguishable to the rest of the world.
2008-05-14 18:30 < Ziggy_Sawdust> /b/ memes aren't as prevasive as you think
2008-05-14 18:30 < Gracenotes> fad, meme, catchphrase are very general terms, and fail to connote the things an Internet meme does
2008-05-14 18:30 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Quanticle: exactly
2008-05-14 18:31 < Ziggy_Sawdust> see
2008-05-14 18:31 < Krimpet> "internet fad." :)
2008-05-14 18:31 < Ziggy_Sawdust> The thing about them is that they're universally accepted (among ED/*chan users at least) ideas
2008-05-14 18:31 < Ziggy_Sawdust> they become part of the language
2008-05-14 18:31 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and using a meme in a sentence becomes natural
2008-05-14 18:31 < quanticle> Krimpet: Why have two words, when there's already a word that describes the artifact? After all, I don't see you saying "data processing device" when you mean "computer".
2008-05-14 18:32 < Demi> there's a term in linguistics for that, and it's not meme
2008-05-14 18:32 < Ziggy_Sawdust> of course using them just for the sake of using them is called "being a fucking idiot"
2008-05-14 18:32 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and to outsiders, they seem strange
2008-05-14 18:32 < Gracenotes> Krimpet: so what's wrong with "internet meme", then? :) the term has already been loaded with connotations, particularly with patterns of usage, and would be rather difficult to change.
2008-05-14 18:32 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but say you want to say "How do I send a private message?"
2008-05-14 18:32 < Krimpet> I just don't like it personally, is all. ;P
2008-05-14 18:32 < Ziggy_Sawdust> You could just as easily say "HOW DO I SHOT PM"
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and it would have the same meaning to a *channer or EDiot
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and uber-plz don't even go into anything
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> deeper than individual chans
2008-05-14 18:33 < crazybanana> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samara_Morgan <-- "who at her turn was inspired" <-- Is this really correct grammar?
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> it's like...
2008-05-14 18:33 < crazybanana> Shouldn't it be "in her turn"?
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 4chan = America, ED = Mexico, 7chan = Canada
2008-05-14 18:33 < Ziggy_Sawdust> They're both vaguely alike to outsiders
2008-05-14 18:34 < Gracenotes> Ziggy_Sawdust: same thing's more-or-less true for online gamer culture, actually...
2008-05-14 18:34 < crazybanana> 4chan = Retardchan.
2008-05-14 18:34 < Ziggy_Sawdust> yet America clearly =/= Canada
2008-05-14 18:34 < crazybanana> Anontalk.com is where it's at.
2008-05-14 18:34 < Gracenotes> in terms of alternate ways of saying things
2008-05-14 18:34 < geniice> crazybanana "who was in turn" would be more typical
2008-05-14 18:34 < Ziggy_Sawdust> crazybanana: there's a reason I picked USA to represent 4chan
2008-05-14 18:34 < crazybanana> geniice: "at her turn" sounds very wrong :S
2008-05-14 18:34 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and within each chan, there are differing mindsets between borads
2008-05-14 18:34 < Ziggy_Sawdust> *boards
2008-05-14 18:34 < Ziggy_Sawdust> like /b/ is the lowest common denominator
2008-05-14 18:34 < Demi> i understand krimpet's feeling about it. there's an implied community aggrandizement around idioms, its argot and fads in the use of the term, as if these phenomena are somehow different or novel from the same kind of passed-around tropes that other communities had or have
2008-05-14 18:34 < geniice> crazybanana> yes
2008-05-14 18:35 < Ziggy_Sawdust> like... 420chan's /sh/ is pretty much the most elitist place ever
2008-05-14 18:35 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: EDiot. I like that.
2008-05-14 18:35 < geniice> Ziggy_Sawdust you have't ever hung out in #wikipedia-en-admins I take it
2008-05-14 18:35 < Ziggy_Sawdust> in the minds of /sh/ users, /sh/ > /i/ > /b/ > 7chan > 4chan = ED > rest of Internet
2008-05-14 18:35 < Ziggy_Sawdust> geniice: I'm not an admin...?
2008-05-14 18:35 < Ziggy_Sawdust> quanticle: it's their own term
2008-05-14 18:36 < Krimpet> Demi: actually that sums my thoughts up really well. it seems like the 4chan crowd consider themselves all influential and self-important... when they're really not significant at all in the scheme of things
2008-05-14 18:36 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Krimpet: 4chan as in 4chan or 4chan as in *chan?
2008-05-14 18:36 < Krimpet> *chan. whatever
2008-05-14 18:36 < Ziggy_Sawdust> significant difference
2008-05-14 18:36 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: And, how do you justify the America, Mexico, Canada thing between 4chan, 7chan, and ED? I mean, 4chan'ers go to ED, not the other way around.
2008-05-14 18:36 < Ziggy_Sawdust> It's a rough approximation
2008-05-14 18:36 < Ziggy_Sawdust> not exact
2008-05-14 18:37 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but you sort of get the picture
2008-05-14 18:37 < quanticle> Krimpet: As the anti-Scientology protests showed so clearly.
2008-05-14 18:37 < Ziggy_Sawdust> 4chan is the lowest common denominator of the *chans
2008-05-14 18:37 < Messedrocker> no Ziggy_Sawdust
2008-05-14 18:37 < Gracenotes> moot was very proud of those cute lil' anti-Scientology protesters
2008-05-14 18:37 < Messedrocker> 12chan is
2008-05-14 18:37 < Ziggy_Sawdust> it has the most users, and they're usually troped as having less experience with *chan goings-on and life in general
2008-05-14 18:37 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: So, why would that make it America? Is America the lowest common denominator between Canada and Mexico?
2008-05-14 18:37 < Messedrocker> quanticle, yes
2008-05-14 18:37 < Messedrocker> well
2008-05-14 18:37 < Messedrocker> Mexico is
2008-05-14 18:37 < Ziggy_Sawdust> seeing as when you first discover chans, you go straight to 4chan, and later on you find out about 7chan
2008-05-14 18:38 < Messedrocker> the US may be dumpy but Mexico is still worse
2008-05-14 18:38 < Krimpet> the anti-scientology stuff was an exception, since they did make a media splash there
2008-05-14 18:38 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and of course sometimes people will go straight to 7chan, but that's only a little
2008-05-14 18:38 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and after a while at 4chan, the newfags will learn more about *chan, and how to not fail at life
2008-05-14 18:38 < Krimpet> but is the average american familiar with the unstoppable "FUCK YEAH SEAKING" phenomenon? :p
2008-05-14 18:38 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and then they either stay at 4chan...
2008-05-14 18:38 < Lastsal4> hello all
2008-05-14 18:39 < quanticle> Krimpet: I've been around the Internet a fair bit, and even I'm not familiar with that phenomenon.
2008-05-14 18:39 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Fuck yeah, I like over 9000 seakip-mongler is not a meme
2008-05-14 18:39 < Ziggy_Sawdust> quanticle: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/FUCK_YEAH_SEAKING
2008-05-14 18:39 < Ziggy_Sawdust> see, ED = reference, in a demented way
2008-05-14 18:39 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Hey, you know what I just realized would be really funny?
2008-05-14 18:40 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: You're proving my point about ED being an archive and reference for *chan memes.
2008-05-14 18:40 < Ziggy_Sawdust> If someone put "pubic logging forbidden" in the topic
2008-05-14 18:40 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I wonder how long it would take for people to notice
2008-05-14 18:40 < Ziggy_Sawdust> of course when they did notice, we'd have to act all surprised, like we didn't notice
2008-05-14 18:40 < Ziggy_Sawdust> quanticle: Yes, but that isn't its sole purpose
2008-05-14 18:41 < Ziggy_Sawdust> It's a drama site in its own right.
2008-05-14 18:41 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Similar to *chan but not the same.
2008-05-14 18:41 < geniice> Ziggy_Sawdust wikipedia or ED?
2008-05-14 18:41 < Ziggy_Sawdust> geniice: regarding what
2008-05-14 18:41 < geniice> drama site
2008-05-14 18:41 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Really? I thought its purpose was to maintain a sort of lingua franca of memes that would be common to all the *chans, so that the *chans don't grow too far apart and lose the ability to communicate.
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> No.
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> geniice: ED
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Actually, ED is more similar to WP than Uncyc in terms of structure
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> see, ED's aim is to be a reference
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> of course, not an NPOV reference
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but they document drama in their own way
2008-05-14 18:42 < Ziggy_Sawdust> whereas Uncyc is trying to entertain
2008-05-14 18:42 < Lastsal4> If anyone wants an RSS feed from their watchlist, i've just written up a tutorial http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lastsal/Watchlist_RSS
2008-05-14 18:42 < Demi> i have to go into the library to change my password to the library web site
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> the problem with Uncyc is that writing humor is harder than writing encyclopedia
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> because in an encyclopedia, all you need to write a good article is time and books
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> which anyone can obtain
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> whereas to write humor you need talent
2008-05-14 18:43 < Demi> it's hard in a different way
2008-05-14 18:43 < Demi> it's hard in a way that does not admit itself to parallelism
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> some people have it, but if you don't have it
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> you aren't going to get it
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and humor can't be quantified either
2008-05-14 18:43 < Demi> (as are writing good encyclopedia articles, which wikipedia also doesn't do well)
2008-05-14 18:43 < Ziggy_Sawdust> you can try, but
2008-05-14 18:44 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Demi: Yes, but your average Wikipedia article is a fairly good reference. Not for a report, perhaps, but to increase your general knowledge
2008-05-14 18:44 < Demi> one ofthe symptoms of having a bad sense of humor is that you don't know it
2008-05-14 18:44 < Ziggy_Sawdust> whereas the average Uncyc article isn't even close to being funny
2008-05-14 18:44 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I was a writer for Uncyc once
2008-05-14 18:45 < Demi> Ziggy_Sawdust - wikipedia produces decent articles written on narrow subjects, and more-than-decent lists of facts
2008-05-14 18:45 < Ziggy_Sawdust> All the articles pretty much have a cookie-cutter approach
2008-05-14 18:45 * Demi checks to see if his is still there
2008-05-14 18:46 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [article name] was born in 9473 and died in 1972, after fighting Chuck Norris and breakdancing. [insert more chuck norris jokes here] [insert crappy attempt at random humor here]
2008-05-14 18:46 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [insert Oscar Wilde quote here]
2008-05-14 18:46 < Ziggy_Sawdust> [insert Kanye West/Grue/Your Mom/AAAAAAAAA!/Vin Diesel/Mr. T reference here]
2008-05-14 18:46 < Ziggy_Sawdust> The End.
2008-05-14 18:47 < Demi> Ziggy_Sawdust - i ain't go time for no jibber-jabber
2008-05-14 18:47 < quanticle> Demi: Well, that applies to anything. One of the more unfortunate consequences of truly sucking at something is that you don't know how much you suck. There's been psychological studies done documenting this.
2008-05-14 18:47 < Demi> quanticle - right
2008-05-14 18:47 < Demi> paul graham's essay on lying to children today had a thing in it about it as well
2008-05-14 18:47 < Demi> with regard to judgment
2008-05-14 18:48 < quanticle> Demi: Therefore, if you're able to say, "Man I suck," then you don't truly suck, do you?
2008-05-14 18:48 < quanticle> I mean, you're at least competent enough to evaluate your own incompetence.
2008-05-14 18:48 < Demi> quanticle - well... it depends on the subject
2008-05-14 18:48 < Demi> for example, i suck at playing video games. my consciousness of the fact may make me less deluded but i don't actually suck any less
2008-05-14 18:49 < quanticle> Demi: That's true. This is definitely more true of subjects that don't give you immediate feedback of your own suckage.
2008-05-14 18:49 < Lycurgus> speaking of whining, sucking, and bitching, ...
2008-05-14 18:50 < Demi> i hope this isn't about a dog show...
2008-05-14 18:50 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Are you describing my date with your mom last night?
2008-05-14 18:50 < Lycurgus> ... drupal ain't that bad ... for a php CMS, prolly the best base.
2008-05-14 18:50 < Pilotguy> BADSITE BADSITE BADSITE!
2008-05-14 18:50 < Ziggy_Sawdust> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:C1K
2008-05-14 18:50 < Ziggy_Sawdust> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:C1K
2008-05-14 18:50 < Ziggy_Sawdust> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:C1K
2008-05-14 18:50 < quanticle> Pilotguy: Indeed. Any site that uses Drupal is a bad site.
2008-05-14 18:50 < Lycurgus> quanticle: doubtful, my mother died 17 years ago.
2008-05-14 18:50 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Quit yer spamming, will ya?
2008-05-14 18:50 < Pilotguy> quanticle: But all sites are BADSITES!
2008-05-14 18:51 < Ziggy_Sawdust> GO THERE, PICK AN ARTICLE, AND IMPROVE IT
2008-05-14 18:51 < quanticle> Pilotguy: Damn right. This HTTP crap is nonsense. We should have gone with Gopher.
2008-05-14 18:51 < Demi> archie and gopher are all anyone ever needs
2008-05-14 18:52 < quanticle> Demi: Heh. Damn right. It almost brought a tear to my eye when I heard the last Gopher servers were going down.
2008-05-14 18:53 < Demi> poor relics of the golden age... Usenet, gopher, archie, IRC, mail, all unused
2008-05-14 18:53 < geniice> IRC will never die
2008-05-14 18:53 < geniice> Too many geeks refuseing to use stuff with mass market appeal
2008-05-14 18:54 < Lycurgus> golden in what sense?
2008-05-14 18:54 < Demi> Lycurgus - more golden shower pics on usenet
2008-05-14 18:54 < Lycurgus> ah
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Hey guys
2008-05-14 18:55 < quanticle> Demi: Err... If IRC is unused, then what the hell kind of chat protocol are we using?
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> any... AAAH SHIT
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> GOLDEN SHOWER?!
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> WTF
2008-05-14 18:55 < Demi> quanticle - i was being kind of sarcastic
2008-05-14 18:55 < Demi> do they not use that term anymore?
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I hate AIM.
2008-05-14 18:55 < quanticle> Demi: Heh.
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I hate it with the burning passion of a thousand blazing suns
2008-05-14 18:55 < Ziggy_Sawdust> or in AIM-speak
2008-05-14 18:55 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: So does everyone else. GTFO newfag.
2008-05-14 18:55 < quanticle> :)
2008-05-14 18:56 < Ziggy_Sawdust> i h8 it w/brng psaisn f 1k blz sns
2008-05-14 18:56 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I mean...
2008-05-14 18:56 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I can read IM-speak
2008-05-14 18:56 < mattbuck> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3444565.stm oh, gotta love the world
2008-05-14 18:56 < Lycurgus> does anyone use AIM unless they 1) use AOL or 2) have to deal with someone who uses AOL?
2008-05-14 18:56 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: I could never understand where that originated. Did it originate from text messaging and spread to AIM, or vice versa?
2008-05-14 18:56 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but can you imagine using it as your sole means of communication?
2008-05-14 18:56 < mattbuck> ah, but im speak costs £375/MB
2008-05-14 18:56 < Ziggy_Sawdust> quanticle: I think it was around before texting
2008-05-14 18:57 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but I can understand text messages using that
2008-05-14 18:57 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: I suspect that too, but I'm not an anthropologist, so I can't gather any evidence to prove my case.
2008-05-14 18:57 < Ziggy_Sawdust> because it does take a long-ass time to type anything on a phone
2008-05-14 18:57 < Ziggy_Sawdust> but if you have a full keyboard on your phone there's no reason you shouldn't be able to type in coherent English
2008-05-14 18:57 < Ziggy_Sawdust> or at least semi-coherent
2008-05-14 18:58 < Demi> it's kind of easier with the text prediction to type regular words
2008-05-14 18:58 < geniice> quanticle gopher://ve131.jumpjet.info/1%5CBegin_Here
2008-05-14 18:58 < geniice> gopher://ve131.jumpjet.info/00%5CBegin_Here%5CAbout_Gopher.txt
2008-05-14 18:58 < Ziggy_Sawdust> now people online who are too fucking lazy to type the extra two letters in "you"...
2008-05-14 18:58 < Ziggy_Sawdust> those people should be bludgeoned to death with staplers
2008-05-14 18:58 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Indeed. That's why some people I know say that it originated in text messages. Their argument is that, if you have a full keyboard (for AIM) you don't have use text-speak, therefore text-speak originated in the mobile phone world, where its use was a necessity.
2008-05-14 18:59 < geniice> zere are the same number of letters in "kewl" mind so not just zee lazy
2008-05-14 18:59 < Ziggy_Sawdust> yeah
2008-05-14 18:59 < Ziggy_Sawdust> But then again, people are just lazy-ass motherfuckers
2008-05-14 18:59 < Ziggy_Sawdust> and I especially despise people who say "OMG" in real life
2008-05-14 18:59 < Ziggy_Sawdust> i.e. "oh em jee"
2008-05-14 18:59 < Lycurgus> omg wtf
2008-05-14 18:59 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: That's my counterargument. Saved typing is saved typing, whether its on a phone keypad or a full keyboard.
2008-05-14 19:00 < Demi> i know people who say OMG in real life. but they're referring to Object Management Group standards.
2008-05-14 19:00 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: Its not "jee", its "gee".
2008-05-14 19:00 < Ziggy_Sawdust> And pretty much any time you see OMG on the internet, if you actually replaced it with "oh my God" it would make no sense
2008-05-14 19:00 < Lycurgus> ziggy is not a native speaker of english
2008-05-14 19:00 < Ziggy_Sawdust> I mean... OMG and "oh my God" have completely different meanings
2008-05-14 19:00 < quanticle> Demi: Indeed. I've got a UML book that says "Covers through version 2.0 with additional OMG information"
2008-05-14 19:00 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Lycurgus: I was not aware of this
2008-05-14 19:01 < Ziggy_Sawdust> ZOMG is superior
2008-05-14 19:02 < quanticle> Ziggy_Sawdust: OMG and "oh my god" were equivalent at one point. However, OMG resides on the internet, where language evolves and mutates much more quickly than language offline, so its meaning quickly morphed away from its offline counterpart. You could almost view it in a Darwinian context.
2008-05-14 19:02 < Gracenotes> hence memes :P
2008-05-14 19:02 < quanticle> ZOMG is a further evolution of OMG.
2008-05-14 19:02 < Gracenotes> q: memes were meant to be analogues of genes, I'm sure you know
2008-05-14 19:03 < Ziggy_Sawdust> haha
2008-05-14 19:03 * Mike_H NP: Air Supply - Every Woman in the World (1980)
2008-05-14 19:03 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Memes?
2008-05-14 19:03 < Lycurgus> bullshit: omg is just an acronym
2008-05-14 19:03 < quanticle> Gracenotes: Indeed. The only hesitation I have about using the word "meme" is that no one has done for the theory of memetic evolution what Darwin and Mendel did for genetic evolution.
2008-05-14 19:03 < The359> Mike_H
2008-05-14 19:03 < Lycurgus> what other meaning does it have?
2008-05-14 19:03 < Mike_H> The359: nu
2008-05-14 19:03 < Mike_H> I will never stop
2008-05-14 19:03 < Mike_H> never.
2008-05-14 19:03 < The359> Fuck you and your Air Supply
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> If it was an acronym, OMG and "oh my God" would be interchangable
2008-05-14 19:04 < Mike_H> The359: it was just for you <3
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> which they aren't
2008-05-14 19:04 < Demi> quanticle - you can liberally apply a layer of handwaving bullshit to both, though
2008-05-14 19:04 < Gracenotes> quanticle: I do find it funny that an analogy Dawkans brought up in a book has become a whole field of study
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Hey, you know what?
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> We ought to have a Bullshit Contest
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> okay
2008-05-14 19:04 < Gracenotes> a sort of wannabe of other theories of social diffusion
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> anyone who wishes to enter
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> make a reliable-sounding encyclopedic statement that's completely false
2008-05-14 19:04 < Ziggy_Sawdust> Mine is...