freenode #wikipedia

2008-04-12 13:55 < Lycurgus> on the plus side the best responses to the european challenge have been in that part of the world
2008-04-12 13:55 < Wuju> therefore tibet gets rich, but what about other ethnic groups? nope.
2008-04-12 13:55 < The359> ...
2008-04-12 13:55 < quanticle> Lycurgus: What do you mean? The Native American population today is largely broken as a culture. The Tibetians are not, as of yet.
2008-04-12 13:55 < The359> You're turning this into a racist thing now, Wuju?
2008-04-12 13:55 < quanticle> Wuju: How do you know that said wealth is rightfully yours?
2008-04-12 13:56 < Wuju> i am not turning it into anything bad.
2008-04-12 13:56 < The359> Too late for that
2008-04-12 13:56 < Wuju> I will end this debate since you won't like me if i go further.
2008-04-12 13:56 < Wuju> Neither would you understand what I am saying.
2008-04-12 13:56 < quanticle> Wuju: This entire talk of wealth "rightfully" belonging to a single race smacks of racism and master-race-Aryanism.
2008-04-12 13:56 < The359> It looks pretty clear to me
2008-04-12 13:56 < Wuju> Wrong again quanticle.
2008-04-12 13:56 < quanticle> Wuju: How so?
2008-04-12 13:56 < Lycurgus> I would not assume someone named "wuju" was aryan.
2008-04-12 13:57 < quanticle> Lycurgus: True. Racist, yes. Aryan, perhaps not.
2008-04-12 13:57 < Wuju> I am not Raicist.
2008-04-12 13:57 < quanticle> Wuju: Then why do you say that the wealth in Tibet "rightfully"
2008-04-12 13:57 < quanticle> belongs to China
2008-04-12 13:57 < The359> if you attack people because you fear they're going to attack you
2008-04-12 13:57 < The359> I would think you are
2008-04-12 13:58 < Wuju> Because the tibets are weak and useless to me. They cannot blend into the modern world like Shanghai, hongkong and many chinese big cities.
2008-04-12 13:58 < quanticle> The359: That was indeed the justification used by the settlers in attacking the Native Americans here.
2008-04-12 13:58 < The359> Useless to you?
2008-04-12 13:58 < Wuju> That is why.
2008-04-12 13:58 < The359> Hard to blend into the modern world when you're repressed
2008-04-12 13:59 < Aqwis> jesus christ
2008-04-12 13:59 < quanticle> Wuju: They're "weak and useless"? That's pretty racist right there. If you said that about blacks or Hispanics, it'd be clear cut.
2008-04-12 13:59 < Wuju> I am speaking of the poorer tibets specifially who pray in temples and do not contribute much. Chairty and all of these kinds are not good enough.
2008-04-12 13:59 < Lycurgus> The359: remember wuju is probably not a native speaker of english.
2008-04-12 13:59 < Wuju> The tibets who blend into the socity and into the modern world are not useless.
2008-04-12 13:59 < The359> Do you do not advocate the freedom of an individual to do what they choose, Wuju?
2008-04-12 13:59 < Wuju> I am not tagetting all tibets.
2008-04-12 13:59 < The359> So you do not, that is
2008-04-12 14:00 < The359> There's no requirement to "contribute" to the world as you think they should
2008-04-12 14:00 < Wuju> There are many kinds of tibetians and the onces i am speaking are the ones who do not want change. Therefore if a nation cannot defend itself, it then shall crumble like life.
2008-04-12 14:00 < Aqwis> it seems Wuju prioritizes "freedom of ethnic groups to do what they chose" instead
2008-04-12 14:00 < The359> That's why it is called freedom
2008-04-12 14:00 < Wuju> I do like to give tibetians freedom to do what they want but if they cannot defend themselves against the power of china
2008-04-12 14:00 < Wuju> move?
2008-04-12 14:00 < The359> Move?
2008-04-12 14:00 < The359> ha
2008-04-12 14:01 < Wuju> if tibetians are in america they can live there and do whatever they like.
2008-04-12 14:01 < Wuju> But if powerful groups attack them, its not my problem.
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> So what, a country does not want all of their individuals to have the sam lifestyle as the rest of the world
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> So they should just be invaded?
2008-04-12 14:01 < Wuju> Thats what i am saying.
2008-04-12 14:01 < Aqwis> are you a proponent of social darwinism, Wuju?
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> Yes it is your problem
2008-04-12 14:01 < Lycurgus> you mean move out of the way so the Han can occupy their territory?
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> Why the fuck are the groups attacking them in the first place?
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> If you want to talk about freedom
2008-04-12 14:01 < quanticle> Wuju: So, by applying your standard to other races, the "poor blacks who pray a lot" are useless too?
2008-04-12 14:01 < Wuju> Nope.
2008-04-12 14:01 < The359> Then a free people should not be attacked simply because those free people do not wish to "join the modern defense world"
2008-04-12 14:02 < Lycurgus> yes of course he does (if he's consistent)
2008-04-12 14:02 < Wuju> I am not a racist.
2008-04-12 14:02 < quanticle> Wuju: What's the difference between a poor Tibetian and a poor black person?
2008-04-12 14:02 < Lycurgus> or factual for that matter
2008-04-12 14:02 < Wuju> If I am racist, how come i respect all groups.
2008-04-12 14:02 < The359> ...
2008-04-12 14:02 < Wuju> I am talking about nations
2008-04-12 14:02 < The359> no
2008-04-12 14:02 < The359> you're talking about certain people
2008-04-12 14:02 < The359> you said so yourself
2008-04-12 14:02 < quanticle> Wuju: You're demonstrating a distinct lack of respect towards the Tibetians.
2008-04-12 14:02 < The359> You said you were not talking about all Tibetans
2008-04-12 14:03 < The359> only the poor ones
2008-04-12 14:03 < Wuju> Tibetian is not a race.
2008-04-12 14:03 < The359> "who didn't join the modern world"
2008-04-12 14:03 < quanticle> Wuju: Yes it is.
2008-04-12 14:03 < Wuju> its not a race
2008-04-12 14:03 < Wuju> its a ethnic group
2008-04-12 14:03 < quanticle> Wuju: Ethnic group == race
2008-04-12 14:03 < Wuju> disagree
2008-04-12 14:03 < Lycurgus> are the Han a race?
2008-04-12 14:03 < Wuju> race is too general.
2008-04-12 14:03 < quanticle> Wuju: What's the difference?
2008-04-12 14:04 < Aqwis> quanticle, i'm not going to agree with Wuju here but are the French a race?
2008-04-12 14:04 < Aqwis> because they are certainly an ethnic group
2008-04-12 14:04 < Wuju> i do not believe in races. I believe in different ethnic groups.
2008-04-12 14:04 < Wuju> Race is a very general term remember?
2008-04-12 14:04 < sam> rule: racism has nothing to do with your definition of "race"
2008-04-12 14:05 < Wuju> okay let me make it simple.
2008-04-12 14:05 < quanticle> Wuju: Ok, fine. For the purpose of argument, lets assume race == ethnic group, since saying "racist" is a lot easer than saying "ethnic group-ist"
2008-04-12 14:05 < Wuju> if the poorer chinese owned tibetian as their own nation called porkchop. And if China has a nation called China, a bigger nation.
2008-04-12 14:05 < Lycurgus> he rejects the "school of names". Rectifications of names is unimportant apparently. The right rectification here however appears to be to equate race with "major ethnicity".
2008-04-12 14:05 < The359> I'll make it simple for you, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:05 < quanticle> Wuju: Given the above redefinition, you do favor one ethnic group over another, and are therefore racist.
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> if porkchop does not want to condome negioations or violence or both to protect themselves, therefore china rightfully can claim porkchop
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> Thats what i am saying
2008-04-12 14:06 < quanticle> Wuju: But the Chinese weren't in Tibet until China invaded Tibet illegally and initiated a program of resettlement.
2008-04-12 14:06 < Lycurgus> in this language reform, there would be 4 "races" based on color: White, Black, Yellow, and Brown.
2008-04-12 14:06 < The359> Claiming you respect nations is the opposite of saying you believe that a poor nation which does not meet your standard of the modern world does not deserve attention or defense if they are invaded for no other reason than "the other country is bigger"
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> it is mostly the tibetians liiving in tibet that want tibet as their own nation.
2008-04-12 14:06 < The359> both of which you said
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> This has nothing to do with racism.
2008-04-12 14:06 < Aqwis> why should a strong ethnic group be able to claim the lands of another group's area?
2008-04-12 14:06 < Lycurgus> most people would fall into one of the last two.
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> ignore the term ethnic groups
2008-04-12 14:06 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Nope. There'd be a lot more races, since race == ethnic group, rather than the reverse.
2008-04-12 14:06 < Wuju> im talking about specific people.
2008-04-12 14:07 < Aqwis> if they negotiated, the Chinese would necessarily gain something from the negotiations
2008-04-12 14:07 < Wuju> not ethnic groups
2008-04-12 14:07 < Aqwis> why?
2008-04-12 14:07 < The359> Tibet attempted to protect itself, through negotiations of peace
2008-04-12 14:07 < The359> they were invaded anyway
2008-04-12 14:07 < quanticle> Wuju: And it was the Americans living in America who wanted their own nation too. Funny how that works.
2008-04-12 14:07 < The359> you simply want them to blow shit up
2008-04-12 14:07 < Wuju> When the british invaded america, did america become peaceful?
2008-04-12 14:07 < quanticle> The359: So China can respond with genocidal force.
2008-04-12 14:07 < Wuju> no.
2008-04-12 14:07 < Lycurgus> quanticle: that's your position. I do not equate the terms, but rather clarified the one. The other I didn't.
2008-04-12 14:07 < Wuju> China is a wonderful nation even richer than america, also cleaner in terms.
2008-04-12 14:07 < The359> War is not the only option, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:08 < Aqwis> richer than america
2008-04-12 14:08 < The359> Cleaner?
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> I have been to china ai have seen it all if there is a nation to visit ill visit china over japan
2008-04-12 14:08 < quanticle> Wuju: But the Indians responded to British occupation with peaceful measures.
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> period.
2008-04-12 14:08 < The359> You clearly never visited China
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> you are wrong.
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> I got proof
2008-04-12 14:08 < quanticle> Wuju: The Indians gained freedom with peaceful measures.
2008-04-12 14:08 < Aqwis> china isn't richer than america in any way
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> You are also wrong
2008-04-12 14:08 < quanticle> Aqwis: And certainly not cleaner.
2008-04-12 14:08 < Aqwis> not in total GDP, not in GDP per capita
2008-04-12 14:08 < Wuju> America is in over 10 trillion in debt
2008-04-12 14:08 < The359> What, wrong because you visited China?
2008-04-12 14:08 < quanticle> Wuju: China has *horrible* pollution issues.
2008-04-12 14:09 < The359> Look out, have a fucking expert
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> And explai why does China have better technology and better trains than america
2008-04-12 14:09 < Aqwis> Wuju, doesn't mean much to the American government or the average american
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> China has many things better than america
2008-04-12 14:09 < Aqwis> the average american is far richer than the average chinese
2008-04-12 14:09 < quanticle> Wuju: Better technology?
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> yep.
2008-04-12 14:09 < The359> Better technology?
2008-04-12 14:09 < The359> you're on crack
2008-04-12 14:09 < quanticle> Wuju: That's a pretty broad assertion. Care to clarify?
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> china has the fastest train in the world.
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> but thats not important anymore.
2008-04-12 14:09 < The359> uh, no they don't
2008-04-12 14:09 < quanticle> The359: He's referring to the Shanghai maglev.
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> i am not going to argue with you.
2008-04-12 14:09 < Wuju> gg
2008-04-12 14:10 < Aqwis> let me get this straight, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:10 < The359> Germany has a maglev as well
2008-04-12 14:10 < quanticle> Wuju: The Shanghai maglev hasn't been built yet.
2008-04-12 14:10 < Aqwis> the Han Chinese should force the Tibeteans to fight violently against them just because the Han Chinese want their land?
2008-04-12 14:10 < quanticle> Wuju: Its still in the planning stages.
2008-04-12 14:10 < Lycurgus> as for the other term and it's relation to the first, every ethnicity could be assigned a race. Ihe rules would be simple and pretty direct in some case (e.g. Han Chinese as yellow, Khosa as black, Swedes as white, etc.) and less so in others.
2008-04-12 14:10 < Aqwis> and they should be allowed to force them into this because they are stronger?
2008-04-12 14:10 < The359> The Japanese JR-Maglev is the fastest train
2008-04-12 14:10 < Wuju> This is the year 2007, china has many major cities. People underestimate china.
2008-04-12 14:10 < Aqwis> Wuju, answer
2008-04-12 14:11 < The359> this is the year 2008
2008-04-12 14:11 < Lycurgus> *a single color-race.
2008-04-12 14:11 < quanticle> Aqwis: Yeah, that's pretty much what he's saying. He's stating that it'd be more convenient if the Tibetians used violence, since then the Han could respond with overwhelming force.
2008-04-12 14:11 < Wuju> 2008
2008-04-12 14:11 < Wuju> lolz.
2008-04-12 14:11 < Aqwis> Wuju, china's major cities are polluted and far too densely populated
2008-04-12 14:11 < quanticle> Wuju: The rest of the world has many major cities too. What's your point.
2008-04-12 14:11 < Aqwis> china's smaller cities are poor
2008-04-12 14:11 < The359> the Japanese have had a maglev train since the 1970s
2008-04-12 14:11 < The359> China, with a maglev in "planning"
2008-04-12 14:11 < Aqwis> china's countryside is even poorer
2008-04-12 14:11 < quanticle> The359: True enough.
2008-04-12 14:11 < The359> is hardly more technologically advanced
2008-04-12 14:11 < NotASpy> didn't China buy that Maglev technology from Japan or Germany ?
2008-04-12 14:11 < Wuju> China is number one in software engineering, gg
2008-04-12 14:11 < quanticle> NotASpy: Germany.
2008-04-12 14:11 < Wuju> China is number one in many things in technology.
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> you mean in production
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> Not actual design
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> There's a difference
2008-04-12 14:12 < Wuju> Nope : ) it seems that you don't understand china
2008-04-12 14:12 < NotASpy> quanticle: I couldn't remember, didn't think it would be Japanese.
2008-04-12 14:12 < quanticle> Wuju: Nope. Fail. That distinction belongs to either the US or India, depending on how you account for outsourcing.
2008-04-12 14:12 < Aqwis> Wuju, enlighten us
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> No, it seems you don't understand technology
2008-04-12 14:12 < Wuju> Wikipedia has crappy information about china
2008-04-12 14:12 < Wuju> no wonder.
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> we're not looking at Wikipedia
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> What's your credentials?
2008-04-12 14:12 < The359> Besides "I visited China"
2008-04-12 14:13 < Aqwis> he's chinese, hehe ;)
2008-04-12 14:13 < NotASpy> Wuju: it's difficult when China keeps simple, basic facts and figures on their economy Top Secret, of course.
2008-04-12 14:13 < quanticle> Wuju: How can China be number one at software engineering, given that software is written in English, and India has far more English speakers than China.
2008-04-12 14:13 < Wuju> I do not listen to american propaganda on the news, They do in fact have powerful credentials. It is the western world who fails to understand china
2008-04-12 14:13 < Aqwis> Wuju, how do we fail to understand china?
2008-04-12 14:13 < The359> that's not an answer, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:13 < Aqwis> what do we fail to understand?
2008-04-12 14:13 < quanticle> Wuju: More like its China that fails to understand the West.
2008-04-12 14:13 < The359> What are your credentials?
2008-04-12 14:13 < Aqwis> in what ways are China richer than the US?
2008-04-12 14:13 < Aqwis> debt doesn't matter as i said earlier
2008-04-12 14:14 < Lycurgus> Zhong guo is definitely not No. 1 in software engineering at this moment, but barring unforeseens I wouldn't be surprise if it reaches that objective. Certiainly nothing happening in the US to hinder it. The EU is another matter though.
2008-04-12 14:14 < The359> where does your information come from?
2008-04-12 14:14 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Don't forget India.
2008-04-12 14:14 < Wuju> China is richer in technology, education, engineering, software engineering, laws, etc. military, and many more things
2008-04-12 14:14 < Lycurgus> *suprised.
2008-04-12 14:14 < Aqwis> yes the laws of China are so great
2008-04-12 14:14 < Aqwis> indeed.
2008-04-12 14:14 < Wuju> China also has great cooking technology, you will be suprised.
2008-04-12 14:14 < Wuju> China has plenty of freedom.
2008-04-12 14:14 < quanticle> Lycurgus: India has a pretty big advantage, because one of its native languages is English.
2008-04-12 14:15 < Lycurgus> IT wise, india is just a back office, a sweat shop.
2008-04-12 14:15 < The359> no, they don't
2008-04-12 14:15 < Aqwis> for capitalists, yes
2008-04-12 14:15 < Aqwis> not for regular citizens
2008-04-12 14:15 < Lycurgus> the same is true but even more so of china.
2008-04-12 14:15 < Aqwis> but i am sure you don't value press freedom and democracy
2008-04-12 14:15 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Right. But China isn't even at "back-office" level yet.
2008-04-12 14:15 < NotASpy> Wuju: China is a fantastic country, but their not quite as powerful as you make out. There is a huge amount of inward investment from the west, the Royal Bank of Scotland owns 10% of the Bank of China, for instance.
2008-04-12 14:15 < The359> Chinese military is still using borrowed Russian equipment
2008-04-12 14:15 < Lycurgus> yes actually they are
2008-04-12 14:15 < The359> which wasn't even on par with US equipment
2008-04-12 14:15 < quanticle> Anyway, I'm off for lunch.
2008-04-12 14:15 < Wuju> This is pointless, can't we debate like adults?
2008-04-12 14:15 < Aqwis> we try
2008-04-12 14:15 < Aqwis> you don't
2008-04-12 14:15 < Wuju> Do this in private not in this channel.
2008-04-12 14:15 < Lycurgus> they just can't do customer service to the us and eu
2008-04-12 14:16 < The359> this looks pretty adult to me
2008-04-12 14:16 < Wuju> ignored.
2008-04-12 14:16 < Aqwis> if you want a private discussion don't come in here and start ranting
2008-04-12 14:16 < The359> except for the whole...we're asking you a question
2008-04-12 14:16 < Aqwis> sigh
2008-04-12 14:16 < The359> you're not answering
2008-04-12 14:16 < Lycurgus> but they can put a thousand coders on a project quick
2008-04-12 14:16 < Aqwis> because ignoring people is part of "adult conversation"
2008-04-12 14:16 < The359> this is the second time Wuju has done this
2008-04-12 14:16 < The359> I don't recall what his arguement was last time...
2008-04-12 14:17 < Aqwis> something related to china?
2008-04-12 14:17 < The359> I don't think so
2008-04-12 14:17 < Wuju> Everytime I answer, It brings up more questions. I am no troll.
2008-04-12 14:17 < Lycurgus> are you in china?
2008-04-12 14:17 < The359> you don't give us an actual answer
2008-04-12 14:17 < The359> we asked where you get your information
2008-04-12 14:17 < The359> Since you claimed Wikipedia's information was wrong
2008-04-12 14:17 < Aqwis> he only preaches his message without explanation
2008-04-12 14:18 < Lycurgus> if you are, you needed fear discovery of your real identity and location here.
2008-04-12 14:18 < Lycurgus> *needn't
2008-04-12 14:18 < Wuju> if you want proof, just ask.
2008-04-12 14:18 < The359> .........
2008-04-12 14:18 < The359> we have
2008-04-12 14:18 < The359> about 5 times
2008-04-12 14:19 < Wuju> Which one?
2008-04-12 14:19 < The359> we asked what your credentials are
2008-04-12 14:19 < The359> Other than "I've been to China"
2008-04-12 14:19 < Lycurgus> since you are cloaked and this is an international people-owned network
2008-04-12 14:19 < Lycurgus> i.e. are you IN china NOW?
2008-04-12 14:21 * toresbe watches the opening of the Norwegian opera house
2008-04-12 14:21 < toresbe> purty
2008-04-12 14:21 < toresbe> finally, we've got an opera!
2008-04-12 14:22 < Lycurgus> WuJu: you may be unaware but there are people that come here for example from Beijing
2008-04-12 14:23 < Aqwis> so oslo finally has its own local culture house
2008-04-12 14:23 < Wuju> Bring me someone from Beijing.
2008-04-12 14:23 < Wuju> Then.
2008-04-12 14:24 < The359> uhhhh
2008-04-12 14:24 * Cream looks for a admin
2008-04-12 14:24 < The359> I'm pretty certain we asked you for proof several times now, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:24 < Lycurgus> yao_zi_yuan: ping.
2008-04-12 14:24 < The359> Why would we suddenly rush to offer proof of a simple statement like that to you?
2008-04-12 14:25 < Wuju> Google is fit for american stuff, or i dont know how to use it at its best
2008-04-12 14:26 < The359> so you get your information on how China is superior from Google?
2008-04-12 14:26 < Wuju> nope
2008-04-12 14:26 < The359> ...
2008-04-12 14:26 < Lycurgus> or Baidu Baike?
2008-04-12 14:26 < The359> You told us to ask you for proof
2008-04-12 14:26 < The359> We have
2008-04-12 14:26 < The359> So answer us
2008-04-12 14:26 < Wuju> and your proof?
2008-04-12 14:26 < Wuju> how about yo provide it first?
2008-04-12 14:27 < Wuju> do you think i should go around books, etc stuff?
2008-04-12 14:27 < Wuju> How do you want the proof?
2008-04-12 14:27 < The359> first?
2008-04-12 14:27 < The359> We asked you for the past 15 minutes
2008-04-12 14:27 < The359> YOU were the one who claimed Wikipedia was wrong
2008-04-12 14:27 < The359> so if Wikipedia is wrong, what is your proof that it is wrong?
2008-04-12 14:28 < The359> I want proof by you providing us with a source of your information
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> depends on what is wrong.
2008-04-12 14:28 < The359> The only one you've provided is "I've been to China"
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> you dont know what you are talking about
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> what kind of proof do you want
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> be specific.
2008-04-12 14:28 < The359> ANY
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> any?
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> no thanks.
2008-04-12 14:28 < Wuju> A wise man does not need to prove his point.
2008-04-12 14:29 < The359> You're not a wise man
2008-04-12 14:29 < Lycurgus> that's the old Chun-Tsu against which the people have succesfully struggled
2008-04-12 14:29 < Wuju> I disagree with you.
2008-04-12 14:29 < Aqwis> he's a troll
2008-04-12 14:29 < Aqwis> get rid of him
2008-04-12 14:29 < Wuju> I am not a troll.
2008-04-12 14:29 < Aqwis> so you have not ignored me after all
2008-04-12 14:29 < The359> trolls don't have to prove their point
2008-04-12 14:29 < Cream> I'm a reformed troll
2008-04-12 14:30 < Wuju> you have proved me nothing either, therefore you are a troll too.
2008-04-12 14:30 < Wuju> when i said dropped the subject you didnt
2008-04-12 14:30 * Lycurgus has to admit, Wuju is a pretty good exemplar of "troll"
2008-04-12 14:30 < The359> our proof is Wikipedia, if you want, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:30 < The359> However you said Wikipedia was wrong in terms of China
2008-04-12 14:31 < The359> So what is your superior source of proof?
2008-04-12 14:31 < Wuju> Wikipedia isnt 100% facts
2008-04-12 14:31 < Lycurgus> e's a sinologist
2008-04-12 14:31 < The359> you still aren't answering
2008-04-12 14:31 < Wuju> I am not going to waste time looking for proof.
2008-04-12 14:31 < The359> How do you know for a fact that China is superior technologically?
2008-04-12 14:32 < The359> You should
2008-04-12 14:32 < Lycurgus> been published in peer reviewed journals of that scowlerly discipline
2008-04-12 14:32 < The359> Or else you're just a troll
2008-04-12 14:32 < Lycurgus> therefore his word alone is authoritative.
2008-04-12 14:32 < Messedrocker> on Wikipedia, words alone are not authoritative
2008-04-12 14:32 < Messedrocker> they have to be published words
2008-04-12 14:32 < Messedrocker> furthermore they have to be published by an organization with academic accountability
2008-04-12 14:33 * Lycurgus looks up the putonghua word for "sarcasm"
2008-04-12 14:33 < Messedrocker> words by themselves are not good because on the Internet you are anonymous and therefore we cannot prove you as an expert nor are you accountable
2008-04-12 14:33 < Lycurgus> ji1 feng2
2008-04-12 14:34 < zocky> what do I do to with a guy who wants sources for slavic peoples calling themselves slavic?
2008-04-12 14:34 < Wuju> My proof now is, go read up academic information in MIT
2008-04-12 14:34 < Wuju> regarding to chinese technology and engineering
2008-04-12 14:34 < The359> What academic information in MIT?
2008-04-12 14:34 < The359> I'm pretty certain it has to have a name
2008-04-12 14:34 < Wuju> Something that has to do with china.
2008-04-12 14:34 < Wuju> : )
2008-04-12 14:35 < The359> yeah, that doesn't work
2008-04-12 14:35 < Lycurgus> hmmm, there doesn't appear to be a chinese translation for "troll"
2008-04-12 14:35 < Wuju> I do not keep track of proofs and stuff.
2008-04-12 14:35 < The359> I'm sure we have some people here that went to MIT though
2008-04-12 14:35 < Lycurgus> you're an idiot then
2008-04-12 14:37 < Lycurgus> the trolling lable is effectively decided in real time
2008-04-12 14:37 < Lycurgus> if everybody in the channel is reacting negatively to you, you are by definition a troll
2008-04-12 14:37 < zocky> or just have an unpopular opinion
2008-04-12 14:37 < Wuju> its like a one jewish man against all arabs.
2008-04-12 14:38 < Lycurgus> *label
2008-04-12 14:39 < Wuju> "These days people don't search for the Truth. People study simply in order to find knowledge necessary to make a living, raise families and look after themselves, that's all. To them, being smart is more important than being wise!" - Ajahn Chah.
2008-04-12 14:39 * Cream raises his hand for a quiet
2008-04-12 14:39 * Lycurgus goes shopping
2008-04-12 14:40 < zocky> according to the inquirer, "internet encourages suicide"
2008-04-12 14:40 < The359> So you're one of those that doesn't search for the truth of China's apparently superiority?
2008-04-12 14:40 < Wuju> another useless question.
2008-04-12 14:41 < Wuju> Someone needs to clean up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunz
2008-04-12 14:41 < The359> What's stopping you?
2008-04-12 14:41 < Wuju> I already added information,.
2008-04-12 14:42 < Rinn> Well, there's that big wall.
2008-04-12 14:42 < Rinn> And the chasm.
2008-04-12 14:42 < The359> so then clean it up, Wuju
2008-04-12 14:42 < Rinn> And then the magic barrier.
2008-04-12 14:42 < zocky> i'm not going to get into the details of this discussion, i'll just note that it's very likely that the chinese are much better informed about the west than vice versa
2008-04-12 14:42 < Rinn> But other than that, I'm on my way!
2008-04-12 14:42 < Wuju> It was edited in the way i liked it but it was changed back in the way people liked it.
2008-04-12 14:43 < The359> legitimately informed or through propoganda, zocky?
2008-04-12 14:43 < zocky> The359, through propaganda on both sides, only that more genuine information about the west gets to china than the other way around
2008-04-12 14:43 < Lycurgus> I get chinese tv.
2008-04-12 14:43 < zocky> The359, i know that the same was true about west vs. yugoslavia, and russians tell me that it was true about west vs. USSR
2008-04-12 14:44 < The359> ok
2008-04-12 14:44 < Wuju> lol wikileaks is fun.
2008-04-12 14:44 < zocky> our news about the west were presented through an ideological prism
2008-04-12 14:44 < zocky> western news about us was mostly untrue
2008-04-12 14:45 < Lycurgus> you mean the bourgeois/corporate media don't you?
2008-04-12 14:46 < Wuju> Where do you guys get your news from?
2008-04-12 14:46 < zocky> mainstream media
2008-04-12 14:46 < zocky> and the rest take the lead
2008-04-12 14:46 < Cream> hey zocky
2008-04-12 14:46 < Lycurgus> the internet was just becoming pervasive at the time of the main recent balkan conflict.
2008-04-12 14:46 < zocky> it's like the current british hysteria about zimbabwe
2008-04-12 14:47 < zocky> sure, there's some bad stuff going on there, but it's not nearly as clear-cut as british mainsteam media make it out to be
2008-04-12 14:47 < zocky> the independent media isn't actually any better, cause it doesn't have any alternative sources of info anyway
2008-04-12 14:47 * Lycurgus most definitely is not limited to bourgeois media whether in the US or elsewhere.
2008-04-12 14:50 < Lycurgus> ok with that idiot comment I am out.
2008-04-12 14:50 < Ceiling_Cat> HAPPY CATURDAY!!!
2008-04-12 14:50 < zocky> Lycurgus, nah, your comment wasn't THAT bad
2008-04-12 14:50 < Wuju> oh damn in game i get 50% increase on exp rate
2008-04-12 14:50 < Wuju> thanks for reminding me ceiling_cat
2008-04-12 14:50 < Ceiling_Cat> MAOR KATZ!
2008-04-12 14:52 < The359> oh boy
2008-04-12 14:53 < The359> CNN Headline News is about to have a story on Rickrolling
2008-04-12 14:53 < Wuju> What article needs to be fixed?
2008-04-12 14:57 < The359> ha
2008-04-12 14:57 < The359> fucking CNN
2008-04-12 14:57 < The359> they claim "Rickrolling" was only invented after it appeared on Family Guy
2008-04-12 14:58 < Aqwis> it increased in popularity but family guy certainly didn't invent it...
2008-04-12 14:59 < The359> yes
2008-04-12 15:01 < zocky> ah, but CNN said so, and that's the only good source, so the article MUST say so :P
2008-04-12 15:02 < Krimpet> didn't Family Guy only happen to use the song in one episode? that's only tangentially rickroll related... -_-
2008-04-12 15:02 < The359> yeah
2008-04-12 15:03 < Ceiling_Cat> Krimpet - you must be this feline <----- ^=o.o=^ -----> to participate in this channel
2008-04-12 15:03 < Fou-Lu> why was #wikipedia-overflow forwarding on?
2008-04-12 15:03 * Cream cuddles Ceiling_Cat
2008-04-12 15:03 < Ceiling_Cat> you are insuffeciently catty ;)
2008-04-12 15:03 < Aqwis> http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z2SUxNMrKnc
2008-04-12 15:03 < Aqwis> sorry shakesparefan
2008-04-12 15:03 * Krimpet is allergic to cats. ;p
2008-04-12 15:03 < Krimpet> my family had parrots instead for that reason. :)
2008-04-12 15:04 < enok|walker> I need to get back to editing this article I made a little schedule for me to follow but I am behind >_>
2008-04-12 15:04 < Cream> Krimpet, i habe a 4 months old kitten :)
2008-04-12 15:04 < Aqwis> hrr
2008-04-12 15:04 < The359> heh
2008-04-12 15:04 < Aqwis> that was not the right video
2008-04-12 15:04 < Aqwis> whatever.
2008-04-12 15:04 < The359> that's a good song, Aqwis
2008-04-12 15:04 < Fou-Lu> why was #wikipedia-overflow forwarding on?
2008-04-12 15:04 < The359> the original video is hilarious too
2008-04-12 15:04 < The359> it's always on, Fou-Lu
2008-04-12 15:04 < Aqwis> lost the link to the rick astley one
2008-04-12 15:04 < Fou-Lu> ...
2008-04-12 15:04 * Cream is no stranger to love
2008-04-12 15:05 < Cream> you know the rules and so do i
2008-04-12 15:05 < Krimpet> Fou-Lu: it's join-throttled
2008-04-12 15:05 < Krimpet> if too many people join at once, it temporarily forwards them.
2008-04-12 15:06 < enok|walker> I accidentally Rickrolled myself in the school library once :/
2008-04-12 15:06 * Ceiling_Cat hops out of the ceiling, onto Cuddle's head
2008-04-12 15:06 < The359> looks like they removed it from YouTube, Aqwis
2008-04-12 15:06 < Aqwis> hurrr
2008-04-12 15:06 < Ceiling_Cat> erm
2008-04-12 15:06 < Ceiling_Cat> Cream's head
2008-04-12 15:07 < Cream> Ceiling_Cat, if you are high
2008-04-12 15:07 < Cream> you can watch these videos
2008-04-12 15:07 < The359> http://youtube.com/watch?v=AilfSflinN4 this is the original video to the song you posted, Aqwis
2008-04-12 15:08 < Aqwis> mm
2008-04-12 15:08 < Ceiling_Cat> Cream - actually, I have a *tremendous* amount of work to do
2008-04-12 15:08 < Ceiling_Cat> my advisor wants a final copy of my master's thesis in 24 hours
2008-04-12 15:09 < Ceiling_Cat> so I have numerous last minute revisions to make
2008-04-12 15:09 * Ceiling_Cat sighs
2008-04-12 15:09 < Ceiling_Cat> this thing has turned into a monster
2008-04-12 15:10 < Ceiling_Cat> quite possibly the longest master's thesis my group has ever produced
2008-04-12 15:10 < Cream> a thesis in what?
2008-04-12 15:11 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mpellegr/mstack/\
2008-04-12 15:11 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mpellegr/mstack/
2008-04-12 15:11 < Ceiling_Cat> taking that benchmark, putting it on the Cray MTA-2
2008-04-12 15:11 < Cream> ah okay
2008-04-12 15:11 < Cream> how many cats do you have%
2008-04-12 15:12 < bumm13> fun :x
2008-04-12 15:12 * Ceiling_Cat fires up inkscape
2008-04-12 15:18 < Ceiling_Cat> Cream - \http://www.thecathouse.org/images/site/sitemascots/lglindenandsteve.jpg
2008-04-12 15:21 < Cream> goddamn
2008-04-12 15:21 < Cream> i have 2
2008-04-12 15:21 < Cream> one cat that's 2 years old and a 4 months old kitten
2008-04-12 15:23 < bumm13> damn, that's at least nine cats in that picture
2008-04-12 15:23 < bumm13> *ten
2008-04-12 15:23 < bumm13> *14 :x
2008-04-12 15:24 < bumm13> that's a lot of cat food
2008-04-12 15:25 < Cream> mine are way too cute
2008-04-12 15:27 * bumm13 NP: Who - Behind Blue Eyes (1971)
2008-04-12 15:27 < bumm13> one is plenty for me
2008-04-12 15:27 < CrazyTB> Hey, which is the SVG converter that wikipedia uses?
2008-04-12 15:28 < Cream> my kitten is sleeping
2008-04-12 15:28 < Cream> it's too cute
2008-04-12 15:28 < Cream> it's on my lap
2008-04-12 15:28 < bumm13> :-)
2008-04-12 15:29 < bumm13> =^o.o^=
2008-04-12 15:29 < Cream> now it's purring
2008-04-12 15:29 < bumm13> heh
2008-04-12 15:29 < bumm13> what color is (s)he?
2008-04-12 15:29 < Cream> white
2008-04-12 15:30 < Cream> all white, but with a tiny black spot on her leg
2008-04-12 15:30 < The359> Impure!
2008-04-12 15:32 < bumm13> ah, cute :)
2008-04-12 15:32 < bumm13> shorthair?
2008-04-12 15:32 < Cream> yup
2008-04-12 15:32 < bumm13> ah
2008-04-12 15:33 < bumm13> the Internet is owned by cats ;)
2008-04-12 15:37 < Lycurgus> 白目
2008-04-12 15:39 < Messedrocker> gerald christ is vista poorly designed
2008-04-12 15:40 < Messedrocker> i had to click on four things JUST TO CHANGE THE TIME
2008-04-12 15:42 < zocky> Messedrocker, did you get any dialogs saying "you can't do A now, you have to do B and C first?"
2008-04-12 15:43 < Messedrocker> i don't know
2008-04-12 15:43 < Messedrocker> basically i had to click on the symbol
2008-04-12 15:43 < Messedrocker> then i was in some general config area
2008-04-12 15:43 < Messedrocker> then i clicked "Change Date & Time" (the second of its type)
2008-04-12 15:43 < zocky> "you can't save this table, because it's data is used in windows Foo, Bar and Baz. Close those windows and try again."
2008-04-12 15:43 < zocky> how about you close them and just save the damn thing?
2008-04-12 15:43 < Messedrocker> then i had to give it security clearance
2008-04-12 15:44 < zocky> Messedrocker, hehe
2008-04-12 15:45 < zocky> another classic is "you can't drop an icon on the taskbar, you have to hover it on the button, so that the window opens, and then you can drop it."
2008-04-12 15:45 < zocky> so, bill knows that I want to drop that icon in that window, and instead of just doing it, he gives me detailed instructions for a convoluted way to achieve the same
2008-04-12 15:46 < Messedrocker> bunka bay
2008-04-12 15:46 < cimon> Messedrocker, Who is Gerald Christ? Any relation to Harold Christ?
2008-04-12 15:46 < Messedrocker> Gerald Christ is Gerald Christ
2008-04-12 15:48 < Messedrocker> ah, the MessedRocker Computer Cluster in the Basement
2008-04-12 15:48 < Messedrocker> featuring a laptop with a busted display doing folding@home
2008-04-12 15:48 < Messedrocker> and an obsolete desktop which is about to become a giant data repository
2008-04-12 15:48 < Messedrocker> ftw!
2008-04-12 15:56 < Harland> hi
2008-04-12 15:57 < nokmar> hello
2008-04-12 16:04 < nsh> ok
2008-04-12 16:04 < nsh> i need figure out how to surf without dns
2008-04-12 16:05 < nsh> anyone know a website with a proxy that resolves dns for you?
2008-04-12 16:05 < Cream> legit or illegal?
2008-04-12 16:05 < Platonides> can't you use a different set of dns?
2008-04-12 16:06 < Platonides> Tor can -among other things- resolve dns at its end
2008-04-12 16:06 < nsh> using a public wifi
2008-04-12 16:06 < nsh> and their dns is broken
2008-04-12 16:06 < nsh> not sure if i can make vista do its own resolving
2008-04-12 16:06 < nsh> vista being a massive pile of crap and all
2008-04-12 16:06 < Platonides> can't you change their dns?
2008-04-12 16:07 < nsh> how might i do that?
2008-04-12 16:07 < Platonides> oh, obviously you can
2008-04-12 16:07 < Platonides> as the computer is yours
2008-04-12 16:07 < nsh> that's what you'd think
2008-04-12 16:08 < Platonides> opendns servers: 208.67.222.222 and 208.67.220.220.
2008-04-12 16:08 < Cream> well, there's a file you can tinker it
2008-04-12 16:08 < Cream> with it
2008-04-12 16:08 < Cream> hosts file
2008-04-12 16:08 < nsh> well
2008-04-12 16:09 < Cream> hi Crazytales :)
2008-04-12 16:09 < nsh> it was hidden away in the ipv4 properties of the wireless connection properties
2008-04-12 16:09 < nsh> fucking windows
2008-04-12 16:09 < Crazytales> Hi Cream
2008-04-12 16:09 < nsh> yayness
2008-04-12 16:09 < nsh> thanks for the server IP, Platonides
2008-04-12 16:09 < Platonides> :)
2008-04-12 16:09 < Harland> get a mac :)
2008-04-12 16:10 < snowolf> get a linux :P
2008-04-12 16:10 < bumm13> get a Linus
2008-04-12 16:11 < Harland> get a penguin
2008-04-12 16:11 < bumm13> (:>
2008-04-12 16:11 < Cream> I run a mac, but when i use Huggle or AWB
2008-04-12 16:11 < Cream> i use bootcamp
2008-04-12 16:12 < Harland> yeah can someone write a version of AWB for mac ;)
2008-04-12 16:12 < Cream> Harland, do you know what is Huggle?
2008-04-12 16:12 < Harland> yeah
2008-04-12 16:13 < Wuju> do you guys use linux?
2008-04-12 16:13 < Harland> an anti vandalism program
2008-04-12 16:13 < Harland> Wuju:I dunno
2008-04-12 16:13 < Wuju> mac is not linux
2008-04-12 16:13 < Wuju> I love to make fun of mac users.
2008-04-12 16:14 < Harland> why?
2008-04-12 16:14 < Harland> I know mac is not linux
2008-04-12 16:14 < Harland> their shell's are both built on Darwin anyway ;)
2008-04-12 16:15 < Harland> <:)
2008-04-12 16:15 < cimon> "Welcome to Wikipedia,
2008-04-12 16:15 < cimon> the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
2008-04-12 16:15 < cimon> 2,329,999 articles in English"
2008-04-12 16:15 < Wuju> programmers should use windows than mac haha ;p
2008-04-12 16:16 < cimon> funny to think that another 10 000 article milestone means less than nothing to the english wikipedia.
2008-04-12 16:16 < The359> 2,329,992 articles in English
2008-04-12 16:16 < Harland> mac or somtimes linux is best for programming
2008-04-12 16:16 < Wuju> whats the point in programming if nothing crushes
2008-04-12 16:16 < Cream> Harland, what flavor of Mac?
2008-04-12 16:16 < Wuju> you will be missing all of the fun
2008-04-12 16:16 < Cream> I run Leopard
2008-04-12 16:16 < The359> Site statistics
2008-04-12 16:16 < The359> The English-language Wikipedia currently contains 2,330,027 articles.
2008-04-12 16:17 < Harland> Cream, Tiger soon to be leapard
2008-04-12 16:17 < Cream> cool
2008-04-12 16:17 < Wuju> How many articles in wikipedia are chinese?
2008-04-12 16:17 < snowolf> uh?
2008-04-12 16:17 < Cream> got my computer with Leopard
2008-04-12 16:17 < snowolf> you mean crosswiki?
2008-04-12 16:17 < The359> Look on the Chinese Wikipedia
2008-04-12 16:17 < Harland> I want leapard
2008-04-12 16:17 < cimon> Wuju, very close to as many as on the Finnish Wikipedia
2008-04-12 16:17 < Harland> I mean leopard :(
2008-04-12 16:17 < blahblahblah> hi, can someone tell me whether I should upload a photo I took of commercial packaging, and if so then what license
2008-04-12 16:18 < Wuju> Where can i find the chinese articles number
2008-04-12 16:18 < Wuju> i am looking at http://www.wikipedia.org/
2008-04-12 16:18 < cimon> Wuju: something between 200 000 and 150 000 I would thing.
2008-04-12 16:18 < Cream> blahblahblah, try low resolution
2008-04-12 16:18 < blahblahblah> (it's to illustrate the article for the product)
2008-04-12 16:18 < The359> zh.wikipedia.org
2008-04-12 16:18 < Cream> and try fair use
2008-04-12 16:18 < blahblahblah> ok
2008-04-12 16:18 < The359> 172,517 articles on Chinese Wikipedia
2008-04-12 16:18 < Harland> at the moment 172 456 articles on chiniese wikipedia
2008-04-12 16:18 < Cream> but for what article exactly?
2008-04-12 16:19 < blahblahblah> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penguin_%28biscuit%29
2008-04-12 16:19 < snowolf> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Table_of_Wikimedia_Projects_by_Size :)
2008-04-12 16:19 < Wuju> do you compare the chinese verus american wikipedia for accuracy?
2008-04-12 16:19 < Wuju> on both sides?
2008-04-12 16:19 < cimon> nearly just in the middle of the range I gave.
2008-04-12 16:19 < The359> no
2008-04-12 16:19 < Harland> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/List_of_Wikipedias
2008-04-12 16:19 < Cream> hmm
2008-04-12 16:19 < The359> the Chinese and English (not american) Wikipedias both have to have proper citations
2008-04-12 16:19 < The359> So they're "as accurate" as any other Wikipedia
2008-04-12 16:19 < Harland> all have to have proper citations don't they?
2008-04-12 16:20 < blahblahblah> cream, i'll put a 350px width image and fair use.
2008-04-12 16:20 < Cream> best idea
2008-04-12 16:20 < Cream> i'll see
2008-04-12 16:20 < Harland> everry wikipedia is innacurate in places
2008-04-12 16:20 < Cream> since i had a fair use problem too
2008-04-12 16:20 < Cream> lol
2008-04-12 16:20 < Wuju> LOL i am looking at maple pornstars in zh,wikipedia.org
2008-04-12 16:20 < Wuju> lolz
2008-04-12 16:20 < The359> and?
2008-04-12 16:20 < Messedrocker> maple porn stars?
2008-04-12 16:21 < Wuju> male i mean ;p
2008-04-12 16:21 < blahblahblah> I've had fair use problems too, always with bots though. i just give up usually as I try to remedy it and always get the bot coming back a month later and saying the same thing again
2008-04-12 16:21 < Harland> I'm looking at mple trees with clothes on ;)
2008-04-12 16:21 < cimon> I think he may mean mabblethorbe
2008-04-12 16:21 < Harland> I mean maple
2008-04-12 16:21 < Wuju> i mean male not maple sorry
2008-04-12 16:21 < Harland> or male
2008-04-12 16:21 < Harland> you speak chinese?
2008-04-12 16:22 < Harland> moving on
2008-04-12 16:24 < Wuju> i love linux virtualbox i cheat in games by using it