freenode #wikipedia

2008-04-06 12:59 < TheWeasel> Yep.
2008-04-06 12:59 < Lycurgus> especially in the UK and Germany.
2008-04-06 12:59 < NotACow> Lycurgus: well, they know more than we do, being europeans.
2008-04-06 12:59 < NotACow> europeans are smarter than americans, you know
2008-04-06 12:59 < TheWeasel> Lycurgus: There are some whopping fallacies on the European side.
2008-04-06 12:59 < NotACow> it comes from living in the same place for a long time.
2008-04-06 13:00 < Aqwis> but but
2008-04-06 13:00 < Aqwis> why are the canadians also smarter than americans then?
2008-04-06 13:00 < TheWeasel> Butt, and that is a big butt...
2008-04-06 13:00 < Aqwis> :o
2008-04-06 13:00 < NotACow> Aqwis: beavers.
2008-04-06 13:00 < Aqwis> obviously
2008-04-06 13:00 < gwern> Lycurgus: well of course. it's not like it's important to know about european politics!
2008-04-06 13:00 * gwern rolls eyes in a superior American mannger
2008-04-06 13:00 < gwern> *manner
2008-04-06 13:01 < TheWeasel> I should have left it to him.
2008-04-06 13:01 * TheWeasel doesn't know who the prime minister of Portugal is
2008-04-06 13:01 < gwern> I crack myself up sometimes. 'Delete. One does not simply redirect into Mordor!'
2008-04-06 13:02 < gwern> and I couldn't care less
2008-04-06 13:02 < gwern> seriously, when was the last time portugal mattered?
2008-04-06 13:02 < TheWeasel> oh, saw that yesterday
2008-04-06 13:02 * gwern excludes football here btw
2008-04-06 13:02 < TheWeasel> They had the EU council presidency for a time.
2008-04-06 13:02 < Lucifer_Cat> gwern: when-
2008-04-06 13:02 < Lucifer_Cat> gwern: damn
2008-04-06 13:03 < gwern> he hee
2008-04-06 13:03 < gwern> http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Telnetmordor.png <-- this pic appeals to the geek in me
2008-04-06 13:04 < Aqwis> oh my god, ED link
2008-04-06 13:04 < Aqwis> ban
2008-04-06 13:04 < TheWeasel> and that's a fairly important job, it's good to hand it to someone who gives a damn
2008-04-06 13:04 < TheWeasel> i.e. non-Czech-non-British
2008-04-06 13:04 < gwern> TheWeasel: my dog gives a damn, when I deign to play with him
2008-04-06 13:04 < gwern> perhaps we could let him head up this council of yours
2008-04-06 13:04 < TheWeasel> You have to give back that damn, it's his.
2008-04-06 13:05 < gwern> he would be able to work bipartisanly; he has strong ties on both sides of the aisle
2008-04-06 13:05 < gwern> everyone loves dogs
2008-04-06 13:06 < Lucifer_Cat> gwern: hehe, i have a longstanding wish, that when i get to manage my own network, i will name a machine with VERY restricted access Mordor, and an attempt to ssh will give "One simply does not SSH into mordor"
2008-04-06 13:06 < TheWeasel> but he's easily corruptible with sausage and ham.
2008-04-06 13:06 < Lucifer_Cat> i messed up the order of words
2008-04-06 13:06 < Tony_Sidaway> Picture this: on reading about a certain court case about which you intend to write in Wikipedia, you encounter this statement in the New York Times: "...filed last month in New Jersey Superior Court in Newark..."
2008-04-06 13:06 < gwern> Lucifer_Cat: people will snorkle, if they get that joke
2008-04-06 13:07 < gwern> TheWeasel: ah, but you know the saying - an honest politicianis one who stays bought; and he can only eat so much sausage and ham...
2008-04-06 13:07 < Lucifer_Cat> gwern: ofcourse, the only people i will hire are the ones who get the joke
2008-04-06 13:07 < TheWeasel> Everyone knows that court cases have to be filed IN TRENTON
2008-04-06 13:07 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: must... resist...
2008-04-06 13:07 < TheWeasel> haha
2008-04-06 13:07 < Tony_Sidaway> Question: for how long is it humanly possible to resist writing the phrase "in a court house in Newark, New Jersey" into a Wikipedia article?
2008-04-06 13:07 < Lucifer_Cat> my interview application questionnaire will be cooler than googles
2008-04-06 13:07 < TheWeasel> He's bought by both sides in equal measure, everyone is happy.
2008-04-06 13:08 < Messedrocker> Tony_Sidaway, if you don't fork over your 700 pounds, I will take you to court in Newark, Delaware
2008-04-06 13:08 < Messedrocker> that's new-ARK, Delaware
2008-04-06 13:08 < Messedrocker> not to be confused with NEW-ark, New Jersey
2008-04-06 13:09 < TheWeasel> Newark-on-Trent, Staffordshire (?)
2008-04-06 13:09 < ggreer> Lucifer_Cat: google doesn't have crazy restrictions on their machines though. they even have a unified source repository that anyone in the company can check out
2008-04-06 13:09 < NotACow> what about oldark?
2008-04-06 13:09 < Lucifer_Cat> ggreer: thats why mine will be cooler
2008-04-06 13:09 < TheWeasel> NotACow: Lost in Armenia.
2008-04-06 13:10 < TheWeasel> oh, Newark is in Notts.
2008-04-06 13:10 < Lucifer_Cat> NotACow: noah's son totaled it
2008-04-06 13:11 < TheWeasel> some creationist probably has it in his museum.
2008-04-06 13:11 < TheWeasel> it's always fun when churches have competing body parts of Jesus
2008-04-06 13:11 < TheWeasel> epic relic wars to be had
2008-04-06 13:12 < Messedrocker> doesn't some african church claim to have the ark of the covenant?
2008-04-06 13:12 < mavhc> in egypt I think
2008-04-06 13:12 < NotACow> who has his penis?
2008-04-06 13:12 < TheWeasel> I would fain believe it.
2008-04-06 13:12 < gwern> Messedrocker: the ethiopians
2008-04-06 13:13 < mavhc> some guy guards it his whole life, but never enters
2008-04-06 13:13 < mavhc> that's it
2008-04-06 13:13 < gwern> Messedrocker: I read an nt. geographic (or was it smithsonian?) article on it. it hasn't been displayed in centuries, and so on
2008-04-06 13:13 < TheWeasel> I'll brb.
2008-04-06 13:13 < Messedrocker> NotACow, I think Jesus died with his penis
2008-04-06 13:13 < Messedrocker> But, he was circumcised
2008-04-06 13:13 * TheWeasel gets server errors on de.wp by the way.
2008-04-06 13:13 < gwern> mavhc: yeah. obvious bullshit since there's no reasonable route from the barbarians in carthage to ethopia
2008-04-06 13:14 < mavhc> those jewish religious people, always messing around with little boys penises
2008-04-06 13:14 < TheWeasel> Ceterum censeo penis Iesu esse delendam.
2008-04-06 13:14 * Lycurgus has no problems accessing de.wp
2008-04-06 13:15 < TheWeasel> it seems to work now
2008-04-06 13:15 * TheWeasel doesn't know the accusative of that subject
2008-04-06 13:16 < TheWeasel> "penem"
2008-04-06 13:16 < TheWeasel> okay
2008-04-06 13:16 < Lycurgus> is it me or are latinas bustier than average?
2008-04-06 13:17 < TheWeasel> Only you are bustier than... just kidding.
2008-04-06 13:17 < gwern> Lycurgus: I think so. but that's just because they have more of the fat-squat body types
2008-04-06 13:17 < TheWeasel> Yea, it's more accepted too.
2008-04-06 13:18 < Lycurgus> well these girls I'm looking at now are definitely not fat, dunno about squat
2008-04-06 13:19 < Ed_Poor> mumble
2008-04-06 13:19 < TheWeasel> it's quite a reassuring and healthy culture of body image if you ask me.
2008-04-06 13:19 < Lycurgus> that was my impession
2008-04-06 13:20 < Lycurgus> *impression
2008-04-06 13:20 < Ed_Poor> sorry, have a sore throat today
2008-04-06 13:20 < TheWeasel> :-)
2008-04-06 13:20 < TheWeasel> Brb.
2008-04-06 13:23 < gwern> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=NixOS&action=edit&redlink=1 <-- csd r1, is that a speedy delete of a broken redirect?
2008-04-06 13:24 < WilliamH_UK> if the the nominator withdraws his nomination, is it appropriate for a non-admin to close an AfD discussion?
2008-04-06 13:24 < gwern> WilliamH_UK: yes. closes can be done by non-admins
2008-04-06 13:25 < gwern> speaking of which
2008-04-06 13:25 < gwern> !admin could someone undelete [[Nix Package Manager]] and move it into my userspace pls?
2008-04-06 13:25 < WilliamH_UK> thanks gwern
2008-04-06 13:25 < NotASpy> User:Gwern ?
2008-04-06 13:26 < gwern> NotASpy: yup
2008-04-06 13:26 < NotASpy> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gwern/Nix_Package_Manager
2008-04-06 13:27 < gwern> thanks
2008-04-06 13:28 < NotASpy> np
2008-04-06 13:29 < WilliamH_UK> there's a bright golden haze on the meadow
2008-04-06 13:30 < NotACow> IN THE MEADOW THE MIGHTY MEADOW THE HAZE IS GLOWING BRIGHT
2008-04-06 13:31 * WilliamH_UK cowers and wonders if this is Oklahoma! Apocalypse!
2008-04-06 13:33 < Ed_Poor> Hey, I just had a thought. Maybe neutrality at Wikipedia is like equality in Orwell's Animal Farm.
2008-04-06 13:34 < Messedrocker> it'd be nice if ed poor talked about something other than neutrality for the next seven years
2008-04-06 13:34 < Ed_Poor> like "some are more equal than others", i.e., there is no equality because "equal" simply means privileged
2008-04-06 13:34 < Ed_Poor> lol * Messedrocker
2008-04-06 13:34 * White_Cat puts industrial glue on WilliamH_UK and makes him sit on Ed_Poor
2008-04-06 13:34 < Ed_Poor> Okay, let's talk about values like truth and trustworthiness
2008-04-06 13:35 < Rinn> Let's talk about socks.
2008-04-06 13:35 < Ed_Poor> I seem to have gotten stuck
2008-04-06 13:35 < WilliamH_UK> industrial glue?
2008-04-06 13:35 < Rinn> I could use some! My socks keep falling off.
2008-04-06 13:36 < Messedrocker> ed poor, if you're number 88, who's number 2?
2008-04-06 13:36 < Ed_Poor> An angel appears out of nowhere, drips solvent on Uncle Ed, and vanishes - leaving only the faint scent of spaghetti sauce
2008-04-06 13:36 < Ed_Poor> I am not a prisoner, I am a free man!!!
2008-04-06 13:36 < Messedrocker> nor are you a number
2008-04-06 13:36 * Ed_Poor apologizes for bellowing
2008-04-06 13:37 < Messedrocker> soylent green is people!
2008-04-06 13:37 < Messedrocker> speaking of which, charlton heston is dead
2008-04-06 13:37 < Ed_Poor> The spaghetti monster is God, and Charlton Heston is Moses.
2008-04-06 13:38 < TheWeasel> Everyone knows that Charlton Heston is Ben Hur.
2008-04-06 13:38 * TheWeasel is ready for the kiss now, Mr DeMille
2008-04-06 13:39 < WilliamH_UK> everyone's been cracking "i guess we now finally can pry the gun from his cold dead hand" from where ive been standing
2008-04-06 13:40 < TheWeasel> truth is rarely a-priori.
2008-04-06 13:40 * TheWeasel knows little about philosophy, but the Locke vs Rousseau thing taught me that
2008-04-06 13:41 < TheWeasel> and truth is a rotten guide for a collaborative work.
2008-04-06 13:41 < TheWeasel> (at least on the 5% that are disputed at all)
2008-04-06 13:45 < TheWeasel> AAH!
2008-04-06 13:45 < TheWeasel> the comma-itis has taken hold of de. now!
2008-04-06 13:47 < TheWeasel> "Besonders der geplante Bau von zwei Papierfabriken am Lauf des Río Uruguay, hat zu heftigen Demonstrationen und diplomatischen Verwicklungen mit Argentinien geführt."
2008-04-06 13:47 < WilliamH_UK> i misread that as "comma tits"
2008-04-06 13:47 * WilliamH_UK wonders what apostrophe shaped breasts would look like
2008-04-06 13:47 < TheWeasel> Especially the planned construction of two paper factories at the course of the Rio Uruguay, (sic) has lead to strong demonstrations and diplomatic difficulties...
2008-04-06 13:48 < TheWeasel> the comma is just as wrong in German as in English
2008-04-06 13:48 * TheWeasel sobs
2008-04-06 13:49 < WilliamH_UK> <facepalm>
2008-04-06 13:49 < TheWeasel> anyway, later
2008-04-06 13:49 < gwern> TheWeasel: ready for the kiss now?
2008-04-06 13:49 < TheWeasel> too late.
2008-04-06 13:49 < gwern> wasn't it, 'I'm ready for my close-up now, Mr demille'?
2008-04-06 13:50 < RambutanWP> !admin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:RPP#Template:Scottish_First_Ministers_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29
2008-04-06 13:50 < Golbez> clicking
2008-04-06 13:50 < NotASpy> who would want to protect that sorry lot
2008-04-06 13:50 < TheWeasel> It was, but that comma is wrong TOO!
2008-04-06 13:50 * TheWeasel gets paranoid
2008-04-06 13:50 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-04-06 13:51 < bumm13> hiya Weasel
2008-04-06 13:51 < TheWeasel> hey
2008-04-06 13:51 < TheWeasel> they'reaaaaaaaafter me!
2008-04-06 13:51 < WilliamH_UK> hi weasel mwahahahaha
2008-04-06 13:51 < TheWeasel> Sorry... "they're after, me"
2008-04-06 13:52 < bumm13> language nitpicks get no love :(
2008-04-06 13:52 * TheWeasel never understood why the song is called "Paint It, Black"
2008-04-06 13:52 < bumm13> proper language usage is elitist!
2008-04-06 13:52 < gwern> perhaps Black is the name of the person being ordered to paint it
2008-04-06 13:52 < TheWeasel> hehe yea
2008-04-06 13:52 < TheWeasel> bumm13: Definately.
2008-04-06 13:53 < gwern> and everyone pretends that it's just bad grammar to avoid confronting the racism inherent in system^wtitle?
2008-04-06 13:53 * bumm13 has rode in vehicles with livestock and still manages to use proper English
2008-04-06 13:53 < TheWeasel> Hey, black, I want to paint this red door, just not sure which colour!
2008-04-06 13:53 < bumm13> :)
2008-04-06 13:53 < TheWeasel> "has ridden"
2008-04-06 13:53 < WilliamH_UK> hi bumm13, I am er, SS-Sturmbannführer Wilhelm, of the elite 12th "Grammatik" division
2008-04-06 13:53 < bumm13> making they thought the black tar heroin could talk back to them when they made that song
2008-04-06 13:53 < bumm13> WilliamH_UK: wilkommen
2008-04-06 13:54 * TheWeasel protects the Trees And Tree-esses.
2008-04-06 13:54 < gwern> whatever happened to the grammar nazi userboxen?
2008-04-06 13:54 < bumm13> one and the same ;)
2008-04-06 13:54 < WilliamH_UK> is userboxen supposed to sound germanic like
2008-04-06 13:54 < TheWeasel> German: Bäume und Bäuminnen
2008-04-06 13:55 * TheWeasel used to follow a series called "Dialoge boxen"
2008-04-06 13:55 < WilliamH_UK> heh
2008-04-06 13:55 < TheWeasel> as in "dialogues indulge in the sport of boxing"
2008-04-06 13:55 < nsh> dialogue boxing would be cool
2008-04-06 13:55 < gwern> Malbolge boxen
2008-04-06 13:55 < Lycurgus> it's Engman isn't it?
2008-04-06 13:55 < nsh> <Socrates> *uppercut* what is the nature of perspacicity?
2008-04-06 13:55 < bumm13> is "tannen" a German word?
2008-04-06 13:55 < TheWeasel> no, it's German
2008-04-06 13:55 < TheWeasel> it's not
2008-04-06 13:55 < bumm13> ah ok
2008-04-06 13:56 < TheWeasel> they collected funny error messages
2008-04-06 13:56 < TheWeasel> such as the Win95 Classic "No screen detected"
2008-04-06 13:56 < TheWeasel> or "Installing to C:/RECYCLER/"
2008-04-06 13:56 < gwern> 'This error did not happen.'
2008-04-06 13:57 < bumm13> ah, it's Tanne
2008-04-06 13:57 < TheWeasel> Tanne, a conifer whose English name eludes me
2008-04-06 13:57 < bumm13> "fir"
2008-04-06 13:57 < bumm13> fir trees
2008-04-06 13:57 * TheWeasel thought "fir" was Fichte
2008-04-06 13:58 < TheWeasel> oh, Fichte is "spruce"
2008-04-06 13:58 < bumm13> ah, that's different :)
2008-04-06 13:58 * gwern watchen das blinkenlights
2008-04-06 13:58 < TheWeasel> Kiefern = "pines"
2008-04-06 13:58 * bumm13 lives in the land of conifers
2008-04-06 13:58 < bumm13> at least for much of the U.S.
2008-04-06 13:58 < TheWeasel> the Bundesland around me mentions pines in its anthem
2008-04-06 13:59 < bumm13> the larger types (fir, spruce, hemlock)
2008-04-06 13:59 < TheWeasel> there are lots of them
2008-04-06 13:59 < TheWeasel> (sandy soil)
2008-04-06 13:59 < WilliamH_UK> which land?
2008-04-06 13:59 < TheWeasel> Brandenburg
2008-04-06 13:59 < bumm13> places like Georgia and Wisconsin have various pines
2008-04-06 13:59 < TheWeasel> "hoch über dunkle Kiefernwä-häl-der"
2008-04-06 13:59 < bumm13> and drier places further east from the Pacific Ocean
2008-04-06 14:00 < bumm13> like eastern Wash./Oregon and western portions of Nevada
2008-04-06 14:00 < TheWeasel> "high above dark pine fo-ho-rests"
2008-04-06 14:00 < bumm13> Colorado, etc.
2008-04-06 14:00 < TheWeasel> well, dry mediterranean-type conifer forests also exist, yea.
2008-04-06 14:00 < TheWeasel> not the same as up here though, we're Christmas Tree country
2008-04-06 14:00 < bumm13> :)
2008-04-06 14:01 < bumm13> Oregon is the largest producer of holiday Christmas trees in the world
2008-04-06 14:01 < TheWeasel> but most of them have been planted, at least further north where the country becomes less dry
2008-04-06 14:01 < bumm13> the Rockefeller Center tree comes from Oregon, usually (IIRC)
2008-04-06 14:01 < Ed_Poor> snape kills dumbledore
2008-04-06 14:01 < Ed_Poor> ...who, it turns out, is gay
2008-04-06 14:01 < TheWeasel> The above contains spoilers, making it more stable at high velocity
2008-04-06 14:01 < bumm13> heh
2008-04-06 14:02 < WilliamH_UK> only according to rowling's post written musings, Ed
2008-04-06 14:02 < TheWeasel> I thought most people in the US used an artificial Christmas tree
2008-04-06 14:02 < bumm13> well, that depends
2008-04-06 14:02 < WilliamH_UK> no weasel....cheese on the other hand though
2008-04-06 14:02 < bumm13> not in the Northwest, of course ;)
2008-04-06 14:02 < TheWeasel> Heh, yea.
2008-04-06 14:02 < TheWeasel> but public logging is prohibited!
2008-04-06 14:02 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor?
2008-04-06 14:02 < White_Cat> Like Achmed?
2008-04-06 14:02 < Ed_Poor> a piece of him
2008-04-06 14:02 < bumm13> I guess they grow them in small numbers in California using irrigation
2008-04-06 14:02 < bumm13> (not counting extreme-northern CA)
2008-04-06 14:03 * TheWeasel is off to hunt haggis
2008-04-06 14:03 < TheWeasel> Brb
2008-04-06 14:03 < bumm13> where they grow naturally
2008-04-06 14:03 < White_Cat> bumm13 it so extreme
2008-04-06 14:03 < Ed_Poor> is this kawai nekko?
2008-04-06 14:03 < White_Cat> Hai!
2008-04-06 14:03 < TheWeasel> Wo?
2008-04-06 14:03 < TheWeasel> (note: "Hai" in German means "Shark!")
2008-04-06 14:04 < White_Cat> TheWeasel, watashi.
2008-04-06 14:04 * TheWeasel doesn't speak Japanese
2008-04-06 14:04 < White_Cat> ah so...
2008-04-06 14:04 < TheWeasel> Yea, I'm wondering myself why they let me on the internet at all
2008-04-06 14:05 < White_Cat> TheWeasel he who does not watch anime enter my hitlist
2008-04-06 14:05 < TheWeasel> I don't code, I don't get into Japanese culture, I'm uninterested in stalking...
2008-04-06 14:05 < White_Cat> Kennedy was one such person
2008-04-06 14:05 < White_Cat> Yes, I shot kennedy and blamed it on this idiot
2008-04-06 14:05 < TheWeasel> Charlton Heston probably turned down a voiceover role.
2008-04-06 14:05 < White_Cat> if only he watched anime :)
2008-04-06 14:06 < bumm13> in Spanish, "shark" is "tiburón"
2008-04-06 14:06 < Ed_Poor> Can I get banned from wp by mentioning Wikipedia Review?
2008-04-06 14:06 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor if you try very hard perhaps
2008-04-06 14:06 < TheWeasel> Depends on what you connect it with.
2008-04-06 14:06 < bumm13> yeah, Moses died
2008-04-06 14:06 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor why do you even care about that site
2008-04-06 14:06 < TheWeasel> as in "Wikipedia Review is right in that you should all be horribly mutilated", then yes.
2008-04-06 14:06 * White_Cat would watch a while wall instead
2008-04-06 14:06 < Ed_Poor> I was just invited by pm to join it
2008-04-06 14:07 < Lucifer_Cat> Warning: gallery contains some nudity, guitars.
2008-04-06 14:07 * Wikiacc wonders what's going on
2008-04-06 14:07 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor wah!
2008-04-06 14:07 < Ed_Poor> Maybe I can get expelled in the same way as Ben Stein vs. Richard Dawkins
2008-04-06 14:07 * TheWeasel always finds TV reviews in the US funny
2008-04-06 14:07 < TheWeasel> "movie contains gambling, language."
2008-04-06 14:07 < gwern> TheWeasel: you could be allowed on teh internets if you avow an interest in pron
2008-04-06 14:07 < bumm13> haha gambling
2008-04-06 14:07 < White_Cat> "movie contains... well... movie..."
2008-04-06 14:07 < bumm13> like zomg
2008-04-06 14:08 < bumm13> people are wasting their money!
2008-04-06 14:08 < TheWeasel> Ed_Poor: Even if we disagree on most things, I too dislike Richard Dawkins.
2008-04-06 14:08 < White_Cat> bumm13 not wasting
2008-04-06 14:08 < White_Cat> someone is benefiting from all of it
2008-04-06 14:08 < bumm13> oh the frivolity!
2008-04-06 14:08 < TheWeasel> Language in a movie!
2008-04-06 14:08 < White_Cat> wasting money would be burning it in the open
2008-04-06 14:08 < TheWeasel> Well
2008-04-06 14:08 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel unless it's silent, there's language :P
2008-04-06 14:08 < White_Cat> "movie contains you"
2008-04-06 14:08 < TheWeasel> Nowadays movies *without* language are usually the more inappropriate.
2008-04-06 14:09 < Wikiacc> White_Cat: US Federal Reserve notes are great as firestarters
2008-04-06 14:09 < White_Cat> "movie contains afd"
2008-04-06 14:09 < TheWeasel> White_Cat: Movie contains YOUR MOM
2008-04-06 14:09 < White_Cat> "movie features another movie"
2008-04-06 14:09 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: Movie contains YOUR PARENTS
2008-04-06 14:09 < bumm13> Wikiacc: you caused the Bear Stearns bailout!
2008-04-06 14:09 < TheWeasel> List of movies that reference other movies.
2008-04-06 14:09 < gwern> burning money wouldn't be wasted. the value the notes embody doesn't disapear
2008-04-06 14:09 < White_Cat> "movie features the aswer to universe life and everything"
2008-04-06 14:10 < bumm13> now go repent and invest in some gold
2008-04-06 14:10 < gwern> all that happens is some linen gets wasted, and you will never be able to redeem x notes for goods
2008-04-06 14:10 < Wikiacc> gwern: because the notes, strictly speaking, don't embody value
2008-04-06 14:10 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: Movie contains.... well i take it back, this movie contains no story, logic or acting skills whatsoever.
2008-04-06 14:10 < Wikiacc> gwern: since they're not convertible into gold, and haven't been for 35 some odd years
2008-04-06 14:10 < White_Cat> gwern sure they do unless you print replacements
2008-04-06 14:10 < TheWeasel> "contains topical elements and language"
2008-04-06 14:10 < TheWeasel> that's it.
2008-04-06 14:10 < gwern> Wikiacc: alright, the value the notes correspond to...
2008-04-06 14:10 < White_Cat> or else the currency gains value
2008-04-06 14:10 < bumm13> technically, they're still property
2008-04-06 14:10 < White_Cat> buring money makes money more valuable
2008-04-06 14:10 < Ed_Poor> Dawkins said ID is possible, but that the designer would have to have been created
2008-04-06 14:10 < gwern> if anything, burning notes is deflationary
2008-04-06 14:10 < Wikiacc> White_Cat: by a hugely insignificant amount, but yes
2008-04-06 14:10 < Ed_Poor> ... by another intelligent being
2008-04-06 14:10 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: This movie needs to cite its sources.
2008-04-06 14:11 < bumm13> you get to be the notes' caretakers until you spend them :-)
2008-04-06 14:11 < White_Cat> worlds most well known money burners were germans
2008-04-06 14:11 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: sounds a lot like First Cause theory doesn't it, onw
2008-04-06 14:11 < Wikiacc> now*
2008-04-06 14:11 < White_Cat> right TheWeasel
2008-04-06 14:11 < White_Cat> germans burnt money for heat
2008-04-06 14:11 < WilliamH_UK> precisely
2008-04-06 14:11 < Lucifer_Cat> White_Cat: what
2008-04-06 14:11 < Lucifer_Cat> how
2008-04-06 14:11 < gwern> right. even linen paper is a commodity...
2008-04-06 14:11 < WilliamH_UK> they produced more heat than the wood they would buy did
2008-04-06 14:11 < Wikiacc> White_Cat: at some points during the hyperinflation, the money was worth so little it was stupid to use anything else to burn
2008-04-06 14:11 < TheWeasel> "topical elements and cowbell"
2008-04-06 14:11 * Lucifer_Cat didnt know that
2008-04-06 14:11 < Ed_Poor> I just spent 3 hours yesterday fooling around with Conway's Game of Life
2008-04-06 14:11 * Wikiacc burns a cowbell
2008-04-06 14:11 < White_Cat> Wikiacc precisely
2008-04-06 14:11 < TheWeasel> the 1923 inflation, yea.
2008-04-06 14:12 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel, Wikiacc : MOAR COWBELL
2008-04-06 14:12 < bumm13> "This note is worth one 'faith in large-scale floating-currency economies' unit"
2008-04-06 14:12 < White_Cat> I could make a very dark joke now
2008-04-06 14:12 < Ed_Poor> It's amazing how much the cellular automate resemble bacteria
2008-04-06 14:12 < TheWeasel> Versailles plus inept policy.
2008-04-06 14:12 < White_Cat> I wonder if I should
2008-04-06 14:12 < Wikiacc> White_Cat: perhaps
2008-04-06 14:12 < Lucifer_Cat> White_Cat: its irc, go ahead
2008-04-06 14:12 < Ed_Poor> But all the fun and interesting patterns were *gleaned* intelligently by amateur mathematicians
2008-04-06 14:12 < WilliamH_UK> i heard a brilliant quote about robert mugabe
2008-04-06 14:12 < TheWeasel> Movie contains darkness and laissez-faire ideas.
2008-04-06 14:12 < Lucifer_Cat> also its #wikipedia, so go ahead no matter what
2008-04-06 14:12 < bumm13> certainly not one *from* him ;p
2008-04-06 14:12 < WilliamH_UK> someone was saying they reckon he should win the nobel prize
2008-04-06 14:13 < White_Cat> umm...
2008-04-06 14:13 < WilliamH_UK> because he has managed to not only bring the dead back to life, but get them to vote for him
2008-04-06 14:13 < gwern> Ed_Poor: the algorithms are still interesting though. hashlife is a beautiful algorithm
2008-04-06 14:13 < White_Cat> Why didnt they burnt jews during the great hyperinflation
2008-04-06 14:13 < Ed_Poor> I've always criticized WP, even before I was voted in as the first WP sysop
2008-04-06 14:13 * White_Cat hides
2008-04-06 14:13 < bumm13> meh, not that unique
2008-04-06 14:13 < bumm13> I think that occurs in Chicago politics frequently
2008-04-06 14:13 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor criticism is one thing
2008-04-06 14:14 < gwern> WilliamH_UK: why does that sound like it's a centuries old line?
2008-04-06 14:14 < Wikiacc> http://www.economist.com/daily/kallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10881977
2008-04-06 14:14 < WilliamH_UK> no idea
2008-04-06 14:14 < White_Cat> mockery is another
2008-04-06 14:14 < White_Cat> there is a ballance
2008-04-06 14:14 < WilliamH_UK> eek white cat
2008-04-06 14:14 < Ed_Poor> Always constructive criticizm of course
2008-04-06 14:14 < Lucifer_Cat> White_Cat: cuz they were still experimenting with the communists
2008-04-06 14:14 < WilliamH_UK> ive actually met a holocaust survivor, that was interesting
2008-04-06 14:14 < White_Cat> then you dont want to be on wikipedia review
2008-04-06 14:14 < Ed_Poor> For example, about neutrality (ducks and runs)
2008-04-06 14:14 < TheWeasel> Heh... I think fear of mockery is not the sign of a free spirit.
2008-04-06 14:14 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: quite.
2008-04-06 14:14 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: tell us more about it.
2008-04-06 14:14 < WilliamH_UK> she was a prisoner in Auschwitz
2008-04-06 14:14 < Wikiacc> hi Zarggg
2008-04-06 14:14 < Ed_Poor> no matter, they won't validate my registration
2008-04-06 14:14 < White_Cat> Ed_Poor you can write essays in your userspace
2008-04-06 14:14 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: did you talk in detail?
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> yes it was like a meeting
2008-04-06 14:15 < TheWeasel> I vill beeh behck.
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> a briefing before a whole lot of us went to auschwitz
2008-04-06 14:15 < Ed_Poor> is beck like bono?
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> she was sentenced to death for being jewish in germany
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> and having false papers
2008-04-06 14:15 < Lucifer_Cat> damn, its my fave subject (WW2) and i have not met ANYONE who was involved in the war effort
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> the execution was a mock execution
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> and she was instead sentenced to life imprisonment at auschwitz
2008-04-06 14:15 < WilliamH_UK> she was sent to Birkenau, and worked in the Kanada section of the camp
2008-04-06 14:16 < Lucifer_Cat> well, except for my grandpa
2008-04-06 14:16 < Wikiacc> WilliamH_UK: that's rare that someone was actually sentenced to a camp
2008-04-06 14:16 < WilliamH_UK> it was their job to sort out belongings of those gassed
2008-04-06 14:16 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: no, they still needed slaves right
2008-04-06 14:16 < WilliamH_UK> her barracks were adjacent to Crematorium IV
2008-04-06 14:16 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: true
2008-04-06 14:16 < WilliamH_UK> and since, unlike Crematorium II and III
2008-04-06 14:16 < TheWeasel> Beck is a creative thirtysomething kid who's inexplicably also a scientologist.
2008-04-06 14:16 < WilliamH_UK> the gas chambers were not underground, and she could see gassing operations
2008-04-06 14:16 < TheWeasel> Bono is a self-indulging overrated messiah type.
2008-04-06 14:16 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: shhh.. WilliamH_UK is talkng serious stuff
2008-04-06 14:17 < Wikiacc> WilliamH_UK: must've scarred her much
2008-04-06 14:17 < Ed_Poor> I heard about some academics who were sentenced to expulsion from the academy for daring to raise scientific and philosophical objections to the Theory of Evolution
2008-04-06 14:17 < WilliamH_UK> she was only 15
2008-04-06 14:17 < Lucifer_Cat> Ed_Poor: depends. some might be portrayed in a wrong way.
2008-04-06 14:17 < WilliamH_UK> and could see the SS disinfectors climbing on stepladders to tip tins of Zyklon into the chamber
2008-04-06 14:17 < TheWeasel> "expulsion" meaning they were fired because it was embarrassing to keep them on.
2008-04-06 14:17 < WilliamH_UK> she also witnessed the rebellion too
2008-04-06 14:18 < TheWeasel> not because they were jealous that those people had found the truth and they hadn't
2008-04-06 14:18 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: well, poor thing. things she had to see at 15
2008-04-06 14:18 < WilliamH_UK> yes, awful
2008-04-06 14:18 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: stfu. atleast say something coherent
2008-04-06 14:19 < TheWeasel> I'm doing my best.
2008-04-06 14:19 < TheWeasel> wasn't commenting on what William said
2008-04-06 14:19 < WilliamH_UK> lucifer cat, on october 7th 1944, prisoners of the sonderkommando revolted
2008-04-06 14:19 < WilliamH_UK> using smuggled explosives, they managed to dynamite the fourth crematorium
2008-04-06 14:19 < Ed_Poor> Should Wikipedia remain neutral on genocide, or is it okay for it to come out against it?
2008-04-06 14:20 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: NPOV is NPOV
2008-04-06 14:20 < Lucifer_Cat> Ed_Poor: no one is 'for' the genocide anyways.
2008-04-06 14:20 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: it can say that it is condemned by almost everyone
2008-04-06 14:20 < WilliamH_UK> well ed, since a shed load of reliable sources say it isnt acceptable, i think it is appropriate for Wikipedia to provide NPOV commentary on it
2008-04-06 14:20 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: but can't condemn it itself
2008-04-06 14:20 < TheWeasel> it's neutral even though the opposition will naturally outweigh the support.
2008-04-06 14:20 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: yes, exactly
2008-04-06 14:20 < nokmar> you can say why it sucks.
2008-04-06 14:20 < nokmar> but you can't say it's bad.
2008-04-06 14:20 < Lucifer_Cat> Ed_Poor: also, its not wikipedia's business to comment on stuff
2008-04-06 14:21 < TheWeasel> You can say why great minds say it sucks.
2008-04-06 14:21 < Ed_Poor> What about ideas which enjoy overwhelming support - among Wikipedians - but are around 50-50 offsite?
2008-04-06 14:21 < WilliamH_UK> ed, perhaps i can forward you this quote
2008-04-06 14:21 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: benefits of technology, say?
2008-04-06 14:21 < bumm13> just the facts, ma'am
2008-04-06 14:21 < WilliamH_UK> You won't even need to say he was evil. That is why the article on Hitler does not start with "Hitler was a bad man"—we don't need to, his deeds convict him a thousand times over. We just list the facts of the Holocaust dispassionately, and the voices of the dead cry out afresh in a way that makes name-calling both pointless and unnecessary. Please do the same: list Saddam's crimes, and cite your sources.
2008-04-06 14:21 < TheWeasel> Iura novit curia.
2008-04-06 14:21 < WilliamH_UK> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#Let_the_facts_speak_for_themselves
2008-04-06 14:21 < Wikiacc> WilliamH_UK: exactly
2008-04-06 14:21 < Ed_Poor> What's a reliable source? "One we like", according to the Truth In Numbers teaser
2008-04-06 14:21 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: perfect.
2008-04-06 14:22 < TheWeasel> Yea, acknowledged, source selection is a problem.
2008-04-06 14:22 < Wikiacc> Ed_Poor: there are academic guidelines for what is and what isn't reliable, I'm not sure how much Wikipedia practice corresponds to the
2008-04-06 14:22 < Wikiacc> m
2008-04-06 14:22 < TheWeasel> Especially since you'd have to have read them all to gauge the significance of each viewpoint.
2008-04-06 14:22 < Lucifer_Cat> ofcourse, a record book saying they killed X people, would me a very objective source.
2008-04-06 14:22 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: probably the best one could get
2008-04-06 14:22 < TheWeasel> Except that estimates differ wildly even now.
2008-04-06 14:23 < WilliamH_UK> well Lucifer Cat, it was very interesting, as was the visit to Auschwitz
2008-04-06 14:23 < TheWeasel> which is why holocaust deniers falsely say "if you can't give a precise number, it's all a sham"
2008-04-06 14:23 < WilliamH_UK> we visited what was a thriving Jewish community
2008-04-06 14:23 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: yeah. anyways, since recording history and events is inherently human....
2008-04-06 14:23 < bumm13> guess the kitchen was too hot
2008-04-06 14:23 < WilliamH_UK> Auschwitz 1, then Auschwitz II
2008-04-06 14:23 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: yeah go on. im all ears.
2008-04-06 14:24 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-04-06 14:24 < WilliamH_UK> Ed, which institutions do you know support the use of genocide?
2008-04-06 14:24 < bumm13> he's gone
2008-04-06 14:24 < Lucifer_Cat> hey, meanwhile, anyone want to read an article from a Nazi soldier POV?
2008-04-06 14:24 < WilliamH_UK> bah
2008-04-06 14:24 < WilliamH_UK> ok LC, in Auschwitz 1 we walked around the blocks, walked around the musem
2008-04-06 14:24 * TheWeasel has read a couple, none of them pro-German
2008-04-06 14:24 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: anyways, its not our business to cure ignornace.
2008-04-06 14:24 < TheWeasel> It is.
2008-04-06 14:25 < TheWeasel> But it isn't our business to preach.
2008-04-06 14:25 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: wanna read? its POV but you'll like it
2008-04-06 14:25 < TheWeasel> no
2008-04-06 14:25 < Lucifer_Cat> as in not a wiki article
2008-04-06 14:25 < TheWeasel> Not allowed to probably.
2008-04-06 14:25 < WilliamH_UK> Lucifer, curing ignorance is probably mainly why i edit wikipedia
2008-04-06 14:25 < TheWeasel> that's not always a good mindset
2008-04-06 14:25 < TheWeasel> but sometimes it works
2008-04-06 14:25 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: our business is to present the facts to the best of human knowledge. not to beat it into weasles and asses.
2008-04-06 14:25 < WilliamH_UK> is that in response to me Weasel?
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> yes that's what i mean
2008-04-06 14:26 < TheWeasel> yea, the last two
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> i didnt say anything about hitting people over the head with it
2008-04-06 14:26 < Leslie_S> bleh
2008-04-06 14:26 < TheWeasel> that "enlightenment" mindset doesn't usually help
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> just simply making it available for those who are curious
2008-04-06 14:26 < Leslie_S> my mom saw me wearing eyeliner ;/
2008-04-06 14:26 < Lucifer_Cat> http://satyamlucifer.blogspot.com/2006/06/letter-from-father-to-son.html
2008-04-06 14:26 < TheWeasel> it can if you retain a sense of proportion
2008-04-06 14:26 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-04-06 14:26 < Lucifer_Cat> shameless plug that link.
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> i cant force anyone to read anything i right, and frankly have no intention doing so
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> *write
2008-04-06 14:26 < WilliamH_UK> it's take it or leave it
2008-04-06 14:27 < Lucifer_Cat> WilliamH_UK: i meant that metaphorically.
2008-04-06 14:27 < WilliamH_UK> ok
2008-04-06 14:27 < TheWeasel> yea sure, but it's hard to "divest yourself from bias" that way.
2008-04-06 14:27 < TheWeasel> which creeps in even in the sub-preaching level
2008-04-06 14:27 < TheWeasel> (as it should)
2008-04-06 14:27 < TheWeasel> just not on Wikipedia
2008-04-06 14:27 < Lucifer_Cat> as in if someone says "gravity is only a theory" we really dont have to go after him to prove that gravity does exist.
2008-04-06 14:28 < TheWeasel> I have a problem with requirements to cite the obvious as well.
2008-04-06 14:28 < TheWeasel> There are few sources for that.
2008-04-06 14:28 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: obvious is kinda dependent.
2008-04-06 14:28 < TheWeasel> It is, but there are clear cases.
2008-04-06 14:28 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: http://satyamlucifer.blogspot.com/2006/06/letter-from-father-to-son.html
2008-04-06 14:29 < Lucifer_Cat> read it dammit
2008-04-06 14:29 < TheWeasel> the cases where citation needed is used as a weapon
2008-04-06 14:29 < TheWeasel> no
2008-04-06 14:29 < WilliamH_UK> my case is simply this, I have an interest in things, I accordingly have an interest in making such things available to other people, therefore i try to provide NPOV, reliable commentary on them
2008-04-06 14:29 < Lucifer_Cat> also, i never learnt about holoucast in school, so my 'facts' may be totally wrong
2008-04-06 14:29 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: where'd you go to school
2008-04-06 14:29 < TheWeasel> "commentary" is POV by definition
2008-04-06 14:29 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: yeah
2008-04-06 14:29 < TheWeasel> descriptions are not
2008-04-06 14:30 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: right behind my house. infact we had a common fence.
2008-04-06 14:30 < WilliamH_UK> weasel i mean other people's commentary on them
2008-04-06 14:30 < TheWeasel> haha nice answer.
2008-04-06 14:30 < TheWeasel> Yea.
2008-04-06 14:30 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: haha, what country though
2008-04-06 14:30 < TheWeasel> But be careful to avoid bias in sourcing.
2008-04-06 14:30 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-04-06 14:30 < Lucifer_Cat> ok no meta discussion. lets go back to what WilliamH_UK was saying, or read what i posted.
2008-04-06 14:30 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: India
2008-04-06 14:31 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: ah ok
2008-04-06 14:31 < WilliamH_UK> LC we also saw Crematorium 1
2008-04-06 14:31 < WilliamH_UK> this housed a gas chamber
2008-04-06 14:31 < TheWeasel> while NPOV of course does not equal middle ground
2008-04-06 14:31 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: the textbooks had no mention whatsoever of any mass murders in history except for one famine that the brits caused in 1800s
2008-04-06 14:31 < TheWeasel> oh, do go on, sorry
2008-04-06 14:31 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: in US schools it's drilled into the students frequently "The Holocaust was a horrible atrocity"
2008-04-06 14:31 < WilliamH_UK> after extermination was moved to birkenau, it was converted into a bombshelter
2008-04-06 14:31 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: really
2008-04-06 14:31 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: sadly, i also find the news in US very very biased
2008-04-06 14:32 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: oh, it's horrible
2008-04-06 14:32 < TheWeasel> Wikiacc: And still I encounter loads of people with a bafflingly relativist opinion about the whole thing
2008-04-06 14:32 < Lucifer_Cat> in india, even pakistan news is provided a fair treatment.
2008-04-06 14:32 < TheWeasel> heh
2008-04-06 14:32 < TheWeasel> Indian papers are tools of fight more often than not.
2008-04-06 14:32 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: what sort of relativism
2008-04-06 14:32 < Lucifer_Cat> are what?
2008-04-06 14:32 < TheWeasel> Well, Germans and Russians being equally bad and such.
2008-04-06 14:33 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: didnt get your point
2008-04-06 14:33 < TheWeasel> Well, there's a lot of opinionating in Indian English language newspapers
2008-04-06 14:33 < WilliamH_UK> LC people try to diffuse one atrocity with another
2008-04-06 14:33 < TheWeasel> the Katyn thing might not have made it easier.
2008-04-06 14:34 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: example?
2008-04-06 14:34 < TheWeasel> still I keep hearing things like "Hitler was better than communism"
2008-04-06 14:34 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: my point was that international news is more often than not given a fair treatment.
2008-04-06 14:34 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: well, Nazism as a whole has led to fewer deaths than Communism as a whole, but morally they're just as evil
2008-04-06 14:34 < TheWeasel> I dunno, I used to read a lot of them, and almost all of their political news was littered with commentary, mostly anti-Pakistan.
2008-04-06 14:34 < mavhc> democracy has caused loads of deaths
2008-04-06 14:34 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: when
2008-04-06 14:34 < TheWeasel> (same with Pakistani papers I guess)
2008-04-06 14:35 < Wikiacc> mavhc: "loads" is a bit of an understatement :P
2008-04-06 14:35 < TheWeasel> Communism itself is not evil. A mindset that tells you to kill "lesser" people is.
2008-04-06 14:35 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: heh, i have seen pakistani news snippets. open lies in some cases. but yeah, you cant blame indian papers for calling musharraf a prick
2008-04-06 14:36 < TheWeasel> Stalinism was evil, but compared to Hitler, it was almost jovial.
2008-04-06 14:36 < Lucifer_Cat> on the flip side, if he did something good, you'd read about it in the papers.
2008-04-06 14:36 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: but Communism in practice always needs a very strong state to administer it and keep control, which leads to evil
2008-04-06 14:36 < toresbe> TheWeasel: communism is not directly evil, but its concequences are.
2008-04-06 14:36 < TheWeasel> no
2008-04-06 14:36 < toresbe> its implications, that is.
2008-04-06 14:36 < TheWeasel> Communism itself is stateless.
2008-04-06 14:36 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: you confuse communists and communism with the soviet leaders of that time.
2008-04-06 14:36 < mavhc> communism never happened
2008-04-06 14:36 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: but, absolutely, Stalin didn't go out and say 'kill the lesser beings', even if he did make a famine in the Ukraine
2008-04-06 14:37 < Lucifer_Cat> i agree with mavhc
2008-04-06 14:37 < TheWeasel> The whole idea of Nazism was one of unspeakable evil.
2008-04-06 14:37 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: well, sure, but it's like comparing democracy and the modern US government
2008-04-06 14:37 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: he ruthlessly sentenced people to labour camps
2008-04-06 14:37 < TheWeasel> far more evil in its systematicity than the (mostly utilitarian) policies of Stalin
2008-04-06 14:38 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: gulags, yes, that too
2008-04-06 14:38 < TheWeasel> and it's futile to count corpses.
2008-04-06 14:38 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: well, saying communism killed people is saying democracy ordered un authorized wire tapping
2008-04-06 14:38 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: yeah, true
2008-04-06 14:38 < Lucifer_Cat> whereas nazis had a clear agenda which said they were superior and jews deserved to die
2008-04-06 14:39 < Lucifer_Cat> so, i'd say Hitler == Stalin... yes
2008-04-06 14:39 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: not just jews, a whole bunch of undesirables
2008-04-06 14:39 < Lucifer_Cat> Nazism == Communism ... hell no
2008-04-06 14:39 < Lucifer_Cat> Wikiacc: i know, i just wasnt trying to be complete/exhaustive
2008-04-06 14:39 < toresbe> 20:36 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: but, absolutely, Stalin didn't go out and say 'kill the lesser beings', even if he did make a famine in the Ukraine
2008-04-06 14:39 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: yeah
2008-04-06 14:40 < toresbe> Wikiacc: that's exactly what he did, though
2008-04-06 14:40 < toresbe> like Lenin before him.
2008-04-06 14:40 < Wikiacc> toresbe: he said 'kill the lesser beings'?
2008-04-06 14:40 * TheWeasel still believes the systematic-ness of the Shoah makes it unique.
2008-04-06 14:40 < TheWeasel> he killed them because they were in the way
2008-04-06 14:40 < toresbe> Wikiacc: yeah. The ...hmm, what is phrase, is not native language...
2008-04-06 14:40 < TheWeasel> not because he wanted a racially pure world.
2008-04-06 14:40 < toresbe> Wikiacc: "major farmers"
2008-04-06 14:40 < TheWeasel> kulaks
2008-04-06 14:40 < WilliamH_UK> Leben unwertes Leben
2008-04-06 14:40 < TheWeasel> Precisely.
2008-04-06 14:40 < toresbe> TheWeasel: which is exactly what Hitler did, too.
2008-04-06 14:41 < toresbe> TheWeasel: The Jews were by no means the first to go; the political opponents were first.
2008-04-06 14:41 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel, Wikiacc : the main difference is, that the communist philosophy did not require those people to be removed. its implementation did.
2008-04-06 14:41 < TheWeasel> Hitler did both.
2008-04-06 14:41 * Wikiacc vergesse, was "unwertes" ist.
2008-04-06 14:41 < TheWeasel> "unworthy"
2008-04-06 14:41 < Wikiacc> Lucifer_Cat: sure, i get you now
2008-04-06 14:41 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: danke :P
2008-04-06 14:41 < Lucifer_Cat> the nazis had charts for who deserved to live and who did not.
2008-04-06 14:41 < TheWeasel> "Life unworthy of living"
2008-04-06 14:41 < TheWeasel> Stalin didn't have such a concept.
2008-04-06 14:42 < TheWeasel> Lucifer_Cat: The absurd thing was that they made exceptions
2008-04-06 14:42 < Lucifer_Cat> yeah, for stalin, whoever stood in the way was enemy
2008-04-06 14:42 < TheWeasel> people became something like "honorary Aryans"
2008-04-06 14:42 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: there were "class enemies" but their persecution weren't exactly integral to the ideology
2008-04-06 14:42 < WilliamH_UK> further more, the Nazi state differentiated between camps
2008-04-06 14:42 < WilliamH_UK> concentration vs extermination
2008-04-06 14:42 < Lucifer_Cat> TheWeasel: that tends to happen
2008-04-06 14:42 < Wikiacc> TheWeasel: well, Hitler was probably one-quarter Jewish
2008-04-06 14:42 < WilliamH_UK> the latter, whose sole purpose was for systematic destruction
2008-04-06 14:42 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-04-06 14:43 < Wikiacc> but labor and concentration camps are, in general, also quite evil
2008-04-06 14:43 < Lucifer_Cat> for stalin, it did not matter if the comrade was from what part, if he was with him, he lived. if he was against, he died.
2008-04-06 14:43 * Wikiacc had a great-uncle who was sent to Siberian labor camps twice, once by the czar (WWI POW), once by the Soviets.
2008-04-06 14:43 < Wikiacc> sorry, great-great-uncle :P
2008-04-06 14:43 < WilliamH_UK> Lucifer Cat, the problem with that is that the extermination of the jews was heavily justified because they presented a security threat to the reich