freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-19 20:02 < ggreer> NotASpy: the problem is that batteries weigh too much. once batteries weigh less then electric cars will make sense
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < ShakespeareFan00> ITER is a sink
2008-03-19 20:02 < ggreer> I have CFLs everywhere except for my living room lamp
2008-03-19 20:02 < Golbez> and DEMO comes online in 25 years
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < rofl666> GUyZ 1 h4V3 A QUeSTiONN
2008-03-19 20:02 < ShakespeareFan00> CFL's are a sink
2008-03-19 20:02 < Enterprise_Cat> o_O
2008-03-19 20:02 < Golbez> ITER is a sink, yes
2008-03-19 20:02 < Golbez> but it's designed to be the first full-scale test
2008-03-19 20:02 < Golbez> DEMO is going to be the first one that supplies more than we put in
2008-03-19 20:02 < ggreer> I like to smash them and sprinkle the mercury on babies
2008-03-19 20:02 < Golbez> and that will be the true test
2008-03-19 20:03 < ShakespeareFan00> Pollywell
2008-03-19 20:03 < ShakespeareFan00> :)
2008-03-19 20:03 < Golbez> 25 years is a long time though
2008-03-19 20:03 < Golbez> but if they can pull it off then we win yay
2008-03-19 20:03 < ggreer> Golbez: you know fusion plants are radioactive
2008-03-19 20:03 < ggreer> right?
2008-03-19 20:03 < ShakespeareFan00> The Polywell lot reckoned they could have production fusion by 2015
2008-03-19 20:04 < The359> ooo
2008-03-19 20:04 < The359> someone made an all electric conversion of the Ariel Atom
2008-03-19 20:04 < The359> awesome
2008-03-19 20:04 < The359> wonder how it performs
2008-03-19 20:04 < ggreer> The359: probably sucky. the atom and the elise are all about having light weight
2008-03-19 20:04 < ggreer> the handling goes to shit if you add a thousand pounds of batteries
2008-03-19 20:04 < ShakespeareFan00> Also the real soloution to the energy sink issue is to ditch the car
2008-03-19 20:04 < Golbez> ggreer- much less so than fission plants, but the main aspect is that we then have no more fuel issues
2008-03-19 20:05 < ggreer> Golbez: ever heard of breeder reactors?
2008-03-19 20:05 < The359> 697 kg / 1536 lb Wrightspeed X1 (electric Atom)
2008-03-19 20:05 < ShakespeareFan00> Nuclear Fission is a sink
2008-03-19 20:05 < Golbez> what about them?
2008-03-19 20:05 < ShakespeareFan00> Fusion less so
2008-03-19 20:05 < NotASpy> ggreer: the Lexus GS450h hybrid comes with very good reports.
2008-03-19 20:05 < The359> 456 kg (1005 lb) Ariel Atom
2008-03-19 20:05 < ggreer> they allow us to make ridiculous amounts of fuel for fission
2008-03-19 20:05 < Golbez> ah
2008-03-19 20:05 < ShakespeareFan00> It's a shame that America is trying to invent it's way out of the sink instead of changing it's behvaiour
2008-03-19 20:06 < ShakespeareFan00> If you thrash in quicksand you get more stuck...
2008-03-19 20:06 < NotASpy> it's a shame they closed down Dounreay
2008-03-19 20:06 < ShakespeareFan00> :(
2008-03-19 20:06 < Golbez> as for the polywell folks, i'm less familiar with them but i have seen some
2008-03-19 20:06 < The359> change what behaviour? Relying on oil?
2008-03-19 20:06 < The359> Because clearly Europeans don't depend on oil. Ever.
2008-03-19 20:06 < ShakespeareFan00> Yeah, and relying on the automobile SO much
2008-03-19 20:06 < ggreer> NotASpy: my sports car from 1997 gets better mileage than the GS450h
2008-03-19 20:06 < Golbez> it'd be nice to see if they can accomplish it
2008-03-19 20:06 < The359> Jet Fuel and Diesel fuel still rely on oil
2008-03-19 20:07 < ShakespeareFan00> America also wastes a lot of the energy it generates
2008-03-19 20:07 < The359> So planes and trains aren't much of an alternative for freight
2008-03-19 20:07 < Golbez> i agree that the american model of suburb is quite inefficient, but it will change as needed
2008-03-19 20:07 < NotASpy> since when is a train not an alternative for freight ?
2008-03-19 20:07 < ggreer> the problem with the GS450h is that it weighs over 4000lbs
2008-03-19 20:07 < The359> Since it still uses diesel fuel?
2008-03-19 20:07 < ShakespeareFan00> NotASpy; You would need MASSIVE ammounts of electrifcation
2008-03-19 20:07 < ggreer> it's so freaking heavy that it can't possibly get good mileage, acceleration, or handling
2008-03-19 20:08 < ShakespeareFan00> and electrfication isn't effcient for transcontinental
2008-03-19 20:08 < The359> safety regs play a hand in that, ggreer
2008-03-19 20:08 < ShakespeareFan00> Electrifcation for trains only really works for things like transits , hi-speed passanger etc...
2008-03-19 20:08 < ShakespeareFan00> It doesn't work for long distance freight
2008-03-19 20:09 < shimgray> *snort*
2008-03-19 20:09 < ggreer> The359: yep. I think my motorcycle has better crumple zones
2008-03-19 20:09 < NotASpy> best tell the Europeans that then, ShakespeareFan00
2008-03-19 20:09 < ggreer> ...than my car
2008-03-19 20:09 < ShakespeareFan00> I mean US style long-distance here
2008-03-19 20:09 < The359> Cross country
2008-03-19 20:09 < ShakespeareFan00> Which are more than the EU
2008-03-19 20:09 < shimgray> it is least profitable for long-distance freight, because those lines have the least use and so cost proportionally more to electrify
2008-03-19 20:09 < NotASpy> ggreer: the Lexus GS450h is apparently better than the IS250 in terms of performance and fuel economy
2008-03-19 20:10 < shimgray> but once the infrastructure is in place, there's nothing magically special about slow freight that makes it sui generis and not suited for electric
2008-03-19 20:10 < ShakespeareFan00> shimgray: Woodhead got electrfied because it was high-traffic IIRC
2008-03-19 20:10 < shimgray> this is simply an issue of line management and traffic planning
2008-03-19 20:10 < ggreer> NotASpy: ok. they're both ridiculously impractical cars
2008-03-19 20:10 < NotASpy> Woodhead got electrified because diesel traction couldn't be used due to the gradients.
2008-03-19 20:10 < shimgray> we can solve it.
2008-03-19 20:11 < ggreer> if you're going to get an impractical car it should be something that at least goes fast and looks cool
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> NotASpy:??
2008-03-19 20:11 < NotASpy> ggreer: oh, but the IS250 is a work of art.
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> Is that ture?
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> *true
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> Intresting
2008-03-19 20:11 < ggreer> NotASpy: the lotus exige is pretty. the IS250 not so much
2008-03-19 20:11 < The359> erm, IS250? The base model?
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> I always thought it was because of all the coal trains
2008-03-19 20:11 < The359> Don't you have the IS350 over there?
2008-03-19 20:11 < ShakespeareFan00> and the trans-pennine stuff
2008-03-19 20:11 < NotASpy> no, the Sport. The base model looks crap, but the Sport looks fantastic.
2008-03-19 20:11 < NotASpy> no IS350.
2008-03-19 20:12 < The359> but it's still the 250
2008-03-19 20:12 < The359> 350 is sportier
2008-03-19 20:12 < The359> and I believe has visual changes as well
2008-03-19 20:12 < The359> but no AWD system I believe
2008-03-19 20:12 < ggreer> the lexus brand are luxury (status symbol) cars
2008-03-19 20:12 < The359> they're trying to become a sports brand with their "F Line"
2008-03-19 20:13 < ggreer> you can spend much less and get a car that is either more practical or faster
2008-03-19 20:13 < The359> with the IS-F and the upcoming V10 LS-F supercar
2008-03-19 20:13 < ggreer> toyota could stop wasting everyone's time and just bring back the supra
2008-03-19 20:13 < ggreer> or the MR-2
2008-03-19 20:13 < The359> Toyota doesn't build sporty cars anymore
2008-03-19 20:13 < The359> It's all Lexus now
2008-03-19 20:13 < ggreer> they're the same company
2008-03-19 20:13 < The359> I know
2008-03-19 20:14 < The359> but they wouldn't bring back the Supra
2008-03-19 20:14 < The359> the closest thing is the Lexus SC
2008-03-19 20:14 < ggreer> that's because they're focusing on making money and not on being awesome
2008-03-19 20:14 < ggreer> mazda makes some neat cars, with the RX-8 and the MX-5
2008-03-19 20:15 < ggreer> and honda has the S2000 (and the NSX if you really want to spend money)
2008-03-19 20:15 < The359> RX-8 is a little weakling
2008-03-19 20:15 < The359> S2K and NSX are dead
2008-03-19 20:15 < ggreer> the MX-5 is still very much alive though. I mean a rear-wheel drive two-seater for under $25k? sign me up
2008-03-19 20:15 < The359> yes, the Miata is top of its class, really
2008-03-19 20:15 < ggreer> not to mention the handling is amazing and turbo kits are cheap
2008-03-19 20:16 < The359> but I wouldn't touch the RX-8
2008-03-19 20:16 < NotASpy> much better with that nice Volvo XC70
2008-03-19 20:16 < The359> even ignoring the fact that it's ugly
2008-03-19 20:16 < ggreer> since I got a motorcycle I've realized just how insane most bikes are
2008-03-19 20:16 < The359> Nissan still has the Z, not that it's all that powerful either
2008-03-19 20:17 < The359> but I do like the Infiniti G
2008-03-19 20:17 < NotASpy> the RX-8 - goes through more oil than the United States, doesn't it.
2008-03-19 20:17 < The359> probably NotASpy
2008-03-19 20:17 < ggreer> like, anything over 600cc is going to be able to beat any car on the street
2008-03-19 20:18 < ggreer> I mean imagine if car companies made race replicas of F-1 cars
2008-03-19 20:18 < ggreer> that's what sports bikes are like
2008-03-19 20:18 < The359> they do...
2008-03-19 20:18 < ggreer> hmm? where can I get one?
2008-03-19 20:19 < The359> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caparo_T1
2008-03-19 20:19 < ggreer> I mean ones that don't burst into flames and burn you
2008-03-19 20:19 < AppleBoy> damn I wish I could upload the pictures of my baby :(
2008-03-19 20:19 < AppleBoy> baby horse*
2008-03-19 20:19 < AppleBoy> (not a baby boy)
2008-03-19 20:19 < ggreer> that is a freaking insane car though
2008-03-19 20:19 < The359> there was another F1-esque car planned
2008-03-19 20:19 < The359> Hulme something
2008-03-19 20:19 < The359> not sure what happened to it
2008-03-19 20:19 < ggreer> and it would probably get people in just as much trouble as a literbike
2008-03-19 20:19 < AppleBoy> I have to wait another 40 minutes for the video to finish importing into final cut studio
2008-03-19 20:20 < ggreer> ...giving the car a power-to-weight ratio of 1,045 brake horsepower per tonne
2008-03-19 20:20 < ggreer> yeah, that's somewhere between ridiculous and ludicrous speed
2008-03-19 20:21 < ggreer> they better have a plaid paint job
2008-03-19 20:21 < The359> I believe the engine is straight out of an IRL IndyCar
2008-03-19 20:21 < The359> actually, that reminds me, someone modified an IndyCar for street use
2008-03-19 20:21 < ggreer> The359: it's unreliable enough that it could be XD
2008-03-19 20:22 < The359> I wouldn't exactly call the IRL engines unreliable
2008-03-19 20:22 < The359> although I guess it depends which of the engines it is
2008-03-19 20:22 < The359> could be the old Oldsmobile/Chevy/Cosworth units
2008-03-19 20:23 < The359> which are based on the Aurora block
2008-03-19 20:25 < The359> hell, at the moment, engines in the IRL are leased by Honda for the full season to a team
2008-03-19 20:25 < The359> So they last
2008-03-19 20:28 < Mark_Ryan> I had my first article put on Did You Know yesterday
2008-03-19 20:28 < The359> on...?
2008-03-19 20:29 < Mark_Ryan> it's an article about a dam
2008-03-19 20:29 < Mark_Ryan> but yeah, that's my first time on did you know, i think
2008-03-19 20:29 < Mark_Ryan> which is pretty sad/funny
2008-03-19 20:30 < shimgray> DYK is great. Nice easy way to get egocredit.
2008-03-19 20:30 * The359 has 8 DYKs
2008-03-19 20:30 * shimgray has, hmm, 20-30ish?
2008-03-19 20:30 < shimgray> and is trying to argue for another one just now
2008-03-19 20:30 < NotASpy> I've got 1.5DYKs
2008-03-19 20:31 < shimgray> (someone is quibbling that I haven't directly cited a detail which comes from plainly simple arithmetic)
2008-03-19 20:31 * SynergeticMag wonders if DYK knows about my liquid deficiency
2008-03-19 20:31 < NotASpy> (I shared one with Mackensen)
2008-03-19 20:31 < NotASpy> who, I note, has been a bit AWOL of late.
2008-03-19 20:31 < Mark_Ryan> i didn't ask for mine to go on it. i don't much like stuff like that, GAs and FAs
2008-03-19 20:32 < NotASpy> I'm not overly keen on GA and FA either. I've got one, could easily get another dozen, but really can't be annoyed tweaking fundamentally decent articles for hours to cater for the whims of whoever is reviewing it.
2008-03-19 20:33 * The359 has 2 GAs and one under review
2008-03-19 20:33 < The359> I doubt I'll get anything to FA
2008-03-19 20:33 < The359> ok, question regarding a dispute over at the Arthur C. Clarke article
2008-03-19 20:34 < The359> User claims that in response to "Have you had bisexual experience yourself?", a response of "Of course" by Clarke makes him bisexual.
2008-03-19 20:34 < NotASpy> the only reason I put an article in for GA was the endless bitching by one editor about how I and other admins had the nerve to edit without having had a Good Article. As soon as it passed, the bitching stopped, which was great.
2008-03-19 20:36 < Mark_Ryan> The359: that is not a question
2008-03-19 20:36 < The359> Wouldn't assuming that because one had a bisexual experience (experiment if you will), that they are automatically bisexual be OR?
2008-03-19 20:36 < shimgray> GA is annoying me; someone came along and 'reviewed' an existing one the other day and decided to start demanding information I knew didn't exist
2008-03-19 20:36 < Mark_Ryan> okay, so that is.
2008-03-19 20:36 < Mark_Ryan> The359: indeed
2008-03-19 20:36 < The359> good
2008-03-19 20:36 < NotACow> The359: the real question is, why does it matter?
2008-03-19 20:36 < The359> I'm about ready to tell this guy to toss off
2008-03-19 20:37 < The359> Because people are demanding he be called a bisexual without any real sources
2008-03-19 20:37 < Gwern-away> you aren't bisexual if you only experiment a few times, imo
2008-03-19 20:37 < shimgray> NotACow: It really irks me when we start defining people in ways they themselves evades
2008-03-19 20:37 < shimgray> *evaded
2008-03-19 20:37 < NotACow> The359: tell them to fuck off.
2008-03-19 20:37 < The359> Plus this same user who thinks he's a pedo
2008-03-19 20:38 < shimgray> (I mean, Clarke used to answer questions about his sexuality by carefully pretending they meant "are you cheerful?")
2008-03-19 20:38 < The359> yes, someone pointed that out
2008-03-19 20:38 < NotACow> shimgray: one of the obits in tat book you sent us is of a baronet who was a FTM transsexual. i haven't checked to see if his article reflects this.
2008-03-19 20:38 < The359> he's never really answered the question
2008-03-19 20:38 < Gwern-away> 'I am extremely gay. I was so gay the other day that I went and had a party'
2008-03-19 20:38 < NotACow> shimgray: i'm sure there's an article about him; wikipedia's obsession with the english royalty is unchallenged in the known universe.
2008-03-19 20:38 < shimgray> NotACow: I *wrote* our article on him! Nice footnote of inheritance law, though rendered obsolete about ten years later
2008-03-19 20:39 < NotACow> shimgray: haha
2008-03-19 20:39 < The359> By the way, notice the "Agenda" of the user who thinks Clark is bisexual and a pedo [[User:Haiduc]]
2008-03-19 20:39 < Gwern-away> 'it was a delightful partay. everyone there was quite as gay as I was'
2008-03-19 20:39 < shimgray> (mainly, I wrote it because I thought... wow, that's neat)
2008-03-19 20:39 < shimgray> it just seemed so damned British.
2008-03-19 20:39 < NotACow> shimgray: lee read mot of that book today while we waited at the MRI center
2008-03-19 20:39 < shimgray> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Ewan_Forbes%2C_11th_Baronet
2008-03-19 20:41 < Gwern-away> http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/EggColoredUsingTheRiemannZetaFunction/ <-- mmm.... riemann zeta function easter egg...
2008-03-19 20:48 < Mark_Ryan> I've always been of the opinion that bisexual people are just gay people who haven't admitted it to themselves yet
2008-03-19 20:48 < Riana> ouch man
2008-03-19 20:49 < The359> Gay people are just too selective
2008-03-19 20:49 < Mark_Ryan> I guess that makes me guilty of [[bisexual erasure]]
2008-03-19 20:49 < Enterprise_Cat> what?
2008-03-19 20:49 < The359> don't worry, I was accused of bisexual erasure for arguing against this guy's lack of sources
2008-03-19 20:49 < Mark_Ryan> The359: I saw, that's what led me to that article, heh
2008-03-19 20:49 < Enterprise_Cat> The359: I was accused of POV pushing when making an article neutral :P
2008-03-19 20:50 < The359> that's not a hate crime, Enterprise_Cat :P
2008-03-19 20:50 < Mark_Ryan> I hate crime.
2008-03-19 20:50 < The359> Only if it has a victim
2008-03-19 20:52 < Enterprise_Cat> Have you seen Schindler's List?
2008-03-19 20:52 < The359> yes, it's funny
2008-03-19 20:52 < The359> erm, I mean...
2008-03-19 20:52 < The359> yes
2008-03-19 20:52 < Enterprise_Cat> funny?
2008-03-19 20:52 * The359 was joking
2008-03-19 20:53 < Enterprise_Cat> Great movie
2008-03-19 20:53 < Enterprise_Cat> Watched it today in AP Prep World History
2008-03-19 20:53 < The359> Uncensored?
2008-03-19 20:53 < Enterprise_Cat> The359: Mostly
2008-03-19 20:54 < Mark_Ryan> one of spielberg's best, really
2008-03-19 20:54 < The359> mostly?
2008-03-19 20:54 < Enterprise_Cat> Close Encounters of the Third Kind was a great Spielberg Sci-Fi
2008-03-19 20:54 < Enterprise_Cat> The359: We fast-forwarded through some parts of the ending due to time constraints
2008-03-19 20:55 < The359> I don't recall there being much stuff to see at the end
2008-03-19 20:55 < Enterprise_Cat> There is
2008-03-19 20:56 < orlok> Has anybody seen david g around recently?
2008-03-19 20:56 < Cyrius> not in here, he's quite prolific on the mailing lists
2008-03-19 20:57 < PB54> Quick question - What are the chances a semi-protection request would be granted on a list that is basically complete but gets vandalised an average of 2 times a week? There's really nothing more that can be added to the list...
2008-03-19 20:57 < orlok> ahh, dang
2008-03-19 20:57 < orlok> just wanted to let him know his old web pages are still being used :)
2008-03-19 20:57 < Enterprise_Cat> PB54: Unless there are multiple vandals, nothing
2008-03-19 20:57 < Cyrius> orlok: there's always his wikipedia talk page
2008-03-19 20:57 < Enterprise_Cat> PB54: Also, it would have to be vandalized some 20 times per/day/
2008-03-19 20:57 < PB54> It's a different IP every time
2008-03-19 20:58 < denelson83> PB54: Admin here, what article do you want protected?
2008-03-19 20:58 < Gwern-away> http://reddit.com/info/6ckvh/comments/c03hnus?context=3 <-- :( I got trolled
2008-03-19 20:58 < orlok> Cyrius: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard ?
2008-03-19 20:58 < PB54> denelson83 - List of American Civil War battles
2008-03-19 20:58 < Cyrius> orlok: assuming we're talking about the same person
2008-03-19 20:59 < orlok> Cyrius: yes, i assume we are. Not the dutch painter
2008-03-19 20:59 < Messedrocker> "who shot dead a security guard"
2008-03-19 20:59 < Messedrocker> would it be a problem if i replaced "shot dead" with "murdered"?
2008-03-19 21:00 < denelson83> PB54: Done
2008-03-19 21:01 < PB54> denelson83 - Thanks :)
2008-03-19 21:02 < NotACow> hm
2008-03-19 21:02 < NotACow> http://nonbovine-ruminations.blogspot.com/2008/03/can-they-do-anything-right.html
2008-03-19 21:04 < Luna-San> NotACow: Hmm
2008-03-19 21:04 < Luna-San> Interesting
2008-03-19 21:06 < NotACow> Luna-San: yeah, isn't it?
2008-03-19 21:06 < Mark_Ryan> I'm waiting for the day when a clerical error somewhere sees me appointed as the leader of a small pacific nation
2008-03-19 21:07 * Mike_H cuddles privatemusings
2008-03-19 21:07 < sargun_screen> Do I get cuddles?
2008-03-19 21:08 < privatemusings> nope
2008-03-19 21:08 < privatemusings> only me!
2008-03-19 21:08 < orlok> Mark_Ryan: i just got an email from somebody who might be able to help!
2008-03-19 21:08 < sargun_screen> What do I have to do for cuddles?
2008-03-19 21:08 < orlok> Mark_Ryan: he just needs some cash for air fare!
2008-03-19 21:08 < sargun_screen> Messedrocker: What about "Shot a security guard, and killed him."
2008-03-19 21:08 < orlok> :)
2008-03-19 21:08 < Mark_Ryan> orlok: and my bank account details, to confirm it's really me?
2008-03-19 21:09 < orlok> yup, you know him too? :)
2008-03-19 21:09 < Messedrocker> sargun_screen, that could be seen as two different actions
2008-03-19 21:09 < Mark_Ryan> heh
2008-03-19 21:09 < orlok> "fatally shot"
2008-03-19 21:09 < Messedrocker> i.e. he shot them and then later he stopped his heartbeat somehow
2008-03-19 21:09 < sargun_screen> Or "Shot a security guard, killing him"
2008-03-19 21:09 < Messedrocker> orlok: g1
2008-03-19 21:09 < Messedrocker> i like orlok's suggestion best
2008-03-19 21:09 < sargun_screen> or "Shot a security guard to death"
2008-03-19 21:10 < sargun_screen> "An evil maniac slaughtered a mere security guard"
2008-03-19 21:10 < denelson83> How about "gunned down a security guard"?
2008-03-19 21:10 < sargun_screen> "Brtually murdered with bullets from a gun"
2008-03-19 21:10 < denelson83> s/tu/ut/
2008-03-19 21:10 < sargun_screen> denelson83: Thanks
2008-03-19 21:10 < denelson83> et tu, Brute?
2008-03-19 21:11 < sargun_screen> Yes, sadly, me too
2008-03-19 21:11 < denelson83> "brutal", from "Brutus", Caesar's assassin
2008-03-19 21:11 < sargun_screen> "You too brutus?"
2008-03-19 21:12 < orlok> hmm
2008-03-19 21:12 < orlok> ides of march
2008-03-19 21:12 < Mark_Ryan> I have 3,800 pages on my watchlist. i think it's time to edit it.
2008-03-19 21:15 < Mark_Ryan> "British people are all gay fags. Jolly good, dear boy, jolly good. I'm afraid I must be going now because it's time for tea! Cheerio! Lol, Britfags�" - charming thing to have in my watchlist...
2008-03-19 21:15 < bumm13> :P
2008-03-19 21:15 < Mark_Ryan> wow, it's like a record of all the page move vandalism I have ever fixed
2008-03-19 21:15 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-19 21:16 < denelson83> Besides, the derogatory British slang term for a gay person isn't "fag"
2008-03-19 21:16 < denelson83> it's "poof"
2008-03-19 21:16 < Mark_Ryan> I know
2008-03-19 21:16 < Messedrocker> britpoofs
2008-03-19 21:16 < Mark_Ryan> a fag is a cigarette in England.
2008-03-19 21:16 < Arwen> it's also dead wood
2008-03-19 21:17 < Mark_Ryan> there used to be little candy stick things called "fags" which resembled cigarettes, down to the packets. once 'fag' became derogatory, they renamed them to 'fads'. then they banned them because promoting cigarettes is bad no matter what you call them
2008-03-19 21:17 < Arwen> "Galileo Galilei" <-- heh, most redundant name ever
2008-03-19 21:17 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-19 21:18 < Arwen> I still can't see what's so bad about cigarettes
2008-03-19 21:18 < Messedrocker> Arwen, I know a Nicole Nicholson
2008-03-19 21:18 < Mark_Ryan> they give you lung cancer and you die?
2008-03-19 21:18 < denelson83> *cough* *cough* *cough*
2008-03-19 21:18 < denelson83> I HATE the smell of cigarette smoke!
2008-03-19 21:18 < Arwen> Mark_Ryan, I have not seen a single person directly harmed by cigarettes
2008-03-19 21:18 < bumm13> regular candy gives you diabetes
2008-03-19 21:18 < Arwen> nor have I ever heard of one
2008-03-19 21:18 < Messedrocker> Arwen, then you've never seen my grandfather
2008-03-19 21:18 < Messedrocker> bumm13, not really
2008-03-19 21:18 < bumm13> but that's a *good* disease!
2008-03-19 21:18 < Mark_Ryan> Arwen: one of my friends got a cigarette burn on her thigh
2008-03-19 21:19 < Arwen> heh
2008-03-19 21:19 < Mark_Ryan> which looked like some sort of STD lesion
2008-03-19 21:19 < Arwen> did she die from it? no? there.
2008-03-19 21:19 < bumm13> nice :P
2008-03-19 21:19 < Messedrocker> Arwen, my dad's dad died from 50 years of smoking
2008-03-19 21:20 < Arwen> you have no proof that smoking is what killed him, do you?
2008-03-19 21:20 < DeadEyeArrow> Hey, anyone know what's with the different "N" "b" and "m" letters when looking at your watchlist or recent changes?
2008-03-19 21:20 < Mark_Ryan> "N" means new article, "m" means a minor edit
2008-03-19 21:20 < Messedrocker> Arwen, it mutated his lungs
2008-03-19 21:20 < denelson83> b means bot
2008-03-19 21:20 < Arwen> Messedrocker, can you prove that without relying on statistical evidence?
2008-03-19 21:20 < denelson83> And "f" means "You fucker! Revert this immediately!"
2008-03-19 21:20 * Mark_Ryan always has bot edits hidden, so has never seen that
2008-03-19 21:21 < DeadEyeArrow> MarkL No, not exactly what I mean, they like changed the font.
2008-03-19 21:21 < Messedrocker> Arwen, what statistics? His lungs were black and the nicotine raped his lungs and he got cancer and he DIED OF IT
2008-03-19 21:21 < Messedrocker> nicotine is a mutagen
2008-03-19 21:21 < Mark_Ryan> DeadEyeArrow, might just be someone screwing around with the css file
2008-03-19 21:21 < Arwen> how do you know the cigarettes did that?
2008-03-19 21:22 < Messedrocker> Arwen, how the hell else does a math teacher get lung cancer?
2008-03-19 21:22 < Messedrocker> "He worked too hard on a proof so his lungs grew tumors"
2008-03-19 21:22 < Arwen> asbestos? inhaling large amounts of black tar?
2008-03-19 21:22 < denelson83> Black tar as in heroin?
2008-03-19 21:22 < DeadEyeArrow> Mark: well thanks, weird thing is it didn't change when looking at the history of a page
2008-03-19 21:22 < Messedrocker> he may have been exposed to airborne asbestos and black tar, but he also smoked for 50 years
2008-03-19 21:23 < Mark_Ryan> asbestos doesn't cause cancer, it causes inflammation of different parts of the lung system
2008-03-19 21:23 < Messedrocker> which makes the asbestos and tar a very small amount of it
2008-03-19 21:23 < denelson83> mesothelioma
2008-03-19 21:23 < Messedrocker> mesothelioma is big bucks
2008-03-19 21:23 < Arwen> I'm just saying, there's no direct evidence that smoking causes cancer
2008-03-19 21:23 < Mark_Ryan> okay, so I was thinking of asbestosis instead of mesothelioma. so sue me
2008-03-19 21:24 < Mark_Ryan> Arwen: you sound as chronically deluded as the cigarette companies.
2008-03-19 21:24 < Arwen> I'm arguing for the sake of arguing
2008-03-19 21:25 < Mark_Ryan> actually, i think even the cigarette companies have admitted that smoking causes cancer
2008-03-19 21:25 < Mark_Ryan> they just say that it's not their problem
2008-03-19 21:25 < Messedrocker> "it's not our fault we peddle products we know cause problems"
2008-03-19 21:26 < Messedrocker> this is pathetic
2008-03-19 21:26 < SynergeticMag> has anyone seen a userbox for PETA?
2008-03-19 21:26 < denelson83> BTW, Bender from Futurama is full of asbestos
2008-03-19 21:27 < SynergeticMag> good
2008-03-19 21:27 < SynergeticMag> i hate bender
2008-03-19 21:29 < Mark_Ryan> "Harry Potter and the Willy of Wheels"
2008-03-19 21:30 < Enterprise_Cat> X-D
2008-03-19 21:37 < Cyrius> "Harry Potter and the Unrepentant Vandal"
2008-03-19 21:38 < Cyrius> "Jimmy Wales and the Half-Mad Bitch"
2008-03-19 21:38 * Cyrius is going to hell for that one
2008-03-19 21:38 < Enterprise_Cat> o_O
2008-03-19 21:39 * Enterprise_Cat banished Cyrius to /dev/null
2008-03-19 21:39 < Enterprise_Cat> s/banished/banishes
2008-03-19 21:41 < Mark_Ryan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Walt_Di$ney_Company
2008-03-19 21:41 < Mark_Ryan> redirect for deletion?
2008-03-19 21:42 < Enterprise_Cat> Mark_Ryan: yrd
2008-03-19 21:42 < Enterprise_Cat> *es
2008-03-19 21:42 < Enterprise_Cat> bah
2008-03-19 21:42 < Enterprise_Cat> YES!!
2008-03-19 21:42 * Enterprise_Cat smacks keyboard
2008-03-19 21:43 < Mark_Ryan> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=December%2C_26th%2C_2004_became_dead_end_for_so_many_lives&redirect=no
2008-03-19 21:49 < quanticle> Its good to be back.
2008-03-19 21:49 * quanticle slips into the warm embrace of the IRC chatstream
2008-03-19 21:51 * privatemusings gets caught in the rip...
2008-03-19 21:51 < privatemusings> we need IRC lifegaurds, I reckon....
2008-03-19 21:52 < Scream> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2008-March/040213.html
2008-03-19 21:52 < Scream> O_o
2008-03-19 21:53 < quanticle> Scream: Let me guess. The post was originally a joke, right?
2008-03-19 21:53 < quanticle> Scream: Its not a bad idea...
2008-03-19 21:53 < nokmar> no.
2008-03-19 21:53 < nokmar> if they do that, there's no way I'm ever filing a bug report.
2008-03-19 21:54 < quanticle> nokmar: Yeah, that is true. It does raise the barrier for submitting bug reports quite considerably.
2008-03-19 21:58 < quanticle> chirp
2008-03-19 21:59 * nokmar feeds quanticle pie
2008-03-19 21:59 < quanticle> mmmm... 3.1415926
2008-03-19 22:00 < Cyrius> that's quanticle(pi)
2008-03-19 22:00 * nokmar notes that pie is actually 8.539734223
2008-03-19 22:00 < quanticle> nokmar: How do you figure that?
2008-03-19 22:01 < nokmar> pi e
2008-03-19 22:01 * Cyrius gives nokmar a cookie
2008-03-19 22:01 * nokmar eats said cookie
2008-03-19 22:01 < scorchsaber> nokmar: pi can also be that
2008-03-19 22:01 < scorchsaber> nokmar: Speaking of which, pi can also be 3
2008-03-19 22:01 < scorchsaber> nokmar: or 1.
2008-03-19 22:02 < scorchsaber> woohoo for non-euclidean geometry. :>
2008-03-19 22:02 < quanticle> scorchsaber: Yay
2008-03-19 22:03 < Random832> where's a good place to find unbiased information about web hosts?
2008-03-19 22:03 < scorchsaber> Random832: I'm not sure that's possible.
2008-03-19 22:03 < nokmar> go away fake nerds >_>
2008-03-19 22:03 < quanticle> Random832: Nowhere, really. Pretty much every review has a bias for or against a particular hosting provider.
2008-03-19 22:03 < Random832> pi is 4 in taxicab geometry
2008-03-19 22:03 < Random832> (some people think it's sqrt(8), but those people are measuring the circumference wrong)
2008-03-19 22:04 < quanticle> Random832: You mean geometry using Manhattan distances?
2008-03-19 22:04 < Random832> yes
2008-03-19 22:04 < nokmar> turning more and more into #xkcd.
2008-03-19 22:04 < quanticle> There's a #xkcd on freenode?
2008-03-19 22:04 < Gwern-away> so grab your mouse and double-click for porn porn PORRRNNNN!
2008-03-19 22:04 < Random832> no, it's elsewhere
2008-03-19 22:04 < Gwern-away> quanticle: I hear #xkcd has a bot which enforces originality
2008-03-19 22:04 < quanticle> Gwern-away: The internet is, indeed, for pr0n
2008-03-19 22:05 < Cyrius> it's not the official channel
2008-03-19 22:05 * SynergeticMag just registered for RedHotPawn
2008-03-19 22:05 < Rinn> Chess fetish?
2008-03-19 22:05 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: You play chess?
2008-03-19 22:05 < Cyrius> SynergeticMag: that's terrible =)
2008-03-19 22:05 < SynergeticMag> what what what?
2008-03-19 22:06 < SynergeticMag> i play, i'm still new though
2008-03-19 22:06 < SynergeticMag> i beat my teacher in a few weeks
2008-03-19 22:06 < The359> King me, baby
2008-03-19 22:06 < Enterprise_Cat> o_O
2008-03-19 22:06 < quanticle> The359: Wrong game.
2008-03-19 22:06 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: You want to play a match?
2008-03-19 22:06 < The359> I know
2008-03-19 22:06 < SynergeticMag> sure
2008-03-19 22:06 < Random832> irc.foonetic.net
2008-03-19 22:07 < Rinn> You've obviously never played Chesskers.
2008-03-19 22:07 < SynergeticMag> my nick is SynMag
2008-03-19 22:07 < SynergeticMag> obviously
2008-03-19 22:07 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Ok. I'll challenge you...
2008-03-19 22:07 < Random832> and, considering that someone just said, and I quote, "XD", I'm guessing the originality enforcing bot never got off the ground
2008-03-19 22:07 < Cyrius> If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominos will fall like a house of cards. Checkmate.
2008-03-19 22:07 < SynergeticMag> my first game so far, was from open invitation
2008-03-19 22:07 < Rinn> Random832: Quote Star Wars at them and see if it works.
2008-03-19 22:07 < SynergeticMag> and the guys names is boris
2008-03-19 22:08 < SynergeticMag> my worst fear is
2008-03-19 22:08 * SynergeticMag dont let this guy be russian
2008-03-19 22:08 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: But with a name like Boris, can you really afford to assume otherwise.
2008-03-19 22:08 < Cyrius> Random832: they were doing it in #xkcd-signal
2008-03-19 22:08 < Gwern-away> Random832: but but but http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/01/14/robot9000-and-xkcd-signal-attacking-noise-in-chat/
2008-03-19 22:09 < SynergeticMag> never know, could be a prank
2008-03-19 22:09 < SynergeticMag> uh, white starts right?
2008-03-19 22:09 < quanticle> Cyrius: Nice mixed metaphor...
2008-03-19 22:09 * SynergeticMag laughs profusely
2008-03-19 22:09 < Cyrius> quanticle: stolen from Futurama
2008-03-19 22:09 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Yeah. I set it so that it'd choose sides randomly, and I thought I'd been choosen for black. Oops.
2008-03-19 22:10 < SynergeticMag> your move
2008-03-19 22:11 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Nope - your move now.
2008-03-19 22:11 < SynergeticMag> no, refresh
2008-03-19 22:11 < SynergeticMag> its yours
2008-03-19 22:11 < SynergeticMag> i move fast
2008-03-19 22:12 < SynergeticMag> at least until my pills kick in :)
2008-03-19 22:12 < quanticle> Heh.
2008-03-19 22:12 < SynergeticMag> if i dont take them, i wont sleep
2008-03-19 22:12 < SynergeticMag> ever
2008-03-19 22:12 < SynergeticMag> :/
2008-03-19 22:17 * quanticle wonders if we should be playing on Yahoo chess, instead
2008-03-19 22:18 < SynergeticMag> what happened?
2008-03-19 22:18 < quanticle> What do you mean?
2008-03-19 22:18 < SynergeticMag> i dont see our game
2008-03-19 22:18 < quanticle> You don't?
2008-03-19 22:19 < SynergeticMag> nope
2008-03-19 22:19 < quanticle> Have you clicked the "My Games" icon on the top toolbar?
2008-03-19 22:19 < SynergeticMag> yeah, and i dont see our game anymore
2008-03-19 22:20 < SynergeticMag> i have two other games, and no one moved
2008-03-19 22:20 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Have you tried refreshing the page?
2008-03-19 22:20 < SynergeticMag> yeah
2008-03-19 22:20 < quanticle> For the record, I still see our game, and it says that its your move, and that we're on move 5...
2008-03-19 22:21 < SynergeticMag> whats firefox? cntrl shift...?
2008-03-19 22:21 < Enterprise_Cat> SynergeticMag: Err
2008-03-19 22:21 < Enterprise_Cat> Ctrl+R I think
2008-03-19 22:21 < SynergeticMag> to bypass browser cache
2008-03-19 22:21 < Enterprise_Cat> Shift+Control+R I think
2008-03-19 22:22 < SynergeticMag> nope, still dont see it
2008-03-19 22:22 < SynergeticMag> let me close it out
2008-03-19 22:24 < SynergeticMag> there we go
2008-03-19 22:24 < SynergeticMag> ok, i moved
2008-03-19 22:24 < SynergeticMag> for some reason log out, log in worked
2008-03-19 22:24 < SynergeticMag> sortof like blood in blood out
2008-03-19 22:25 * SynergeticMag eats a reese's cup
2008-03-19 22:26 * SynergeticMag castles
2008-03-19 22:26 < quanticle> Heh. Reese's cups are yummy
2008-03-19 22:27 < SynergeticMag> they sure are
2008-03-19 22:27 < SynergeticMag> i like to make a whole in the middle with my tongue
2008-03-19 22:27 < SynergeticMag> :X
2008-03-19 22:27 < SynergeticMag> :x
2008-03-19 22:27 * quanticle castles as well
2008-03-19 22:27 < quanticle> :o
2008-03-19 22:29 < SynergeticMag> neener i suppose, neener
2008-03-19 22:29 < SynergeticMag> :D
2008-03-19 22:29 < SynergeticMag> ok, now that face popped up
2008-03-19 22:31 < SynergeticMag> oh, and thanks Enterprise_Cat
2008-03-19 22:31 < SynergeticMag> almost forgot
2008-03-19 22:31 < SynergeticMag> cntrl r worked too
2008-03-19 22:31 < Enterprise_Cat> huh?
2008-03-19 22:31 < Enterprise_Cat> oh
2008-03-19 22:34 < SynergeticMag> the only thing i like about checkers is double jumping
2008-03-19 22:34 < SynergeticMag> other than that, eh
2008-03-19 22:35 < quanticle> Meh. Checkers has been solved.
2008-03-19 22:35 * quanticle has no interest in solved games
2008-03-19 22:36 < SynergeticMag> yes, but its not solved to the new people who think they are "masters"
2008-03-19 22:36 < SynergeticMag> the rubicks cube is solved, i still like that one
2008-03-19 22:36 < SynergeticMag> my cat can do it in 3.5 seconds
2008-03-19 22:36 < SynergeticMag> its a black cat
2008-03-19 22:37 < The359> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Interior_of_an_Aston_Martin_Vanquish_S.jpg lol
2008-03-19 22:37 < The359> What a useful picture
2008-03-19 22:37 < quanticle> SyngergeticMag: When chess is solved (I think it'll happen in my lifetime), I'll learn Go.
2008-03-19 22:37 < quanticle> The359: It is quite pretty though.
2008-03-19 22:37 < The359> bit trippy
2008-03-19 22:38 < OverlordQ> nice building
2008-03-19 22:38 < The359> it's a car ;)
2008-03-19 22:38 < SynergeticMag> Go?
2008-03-19 22:39 < SynergeticMag> whats Go?
2008-03-19 22:39 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: A strategy game that's several orders of magnitude more complex than chess.
2008-03-19 22:39 < SynergeticMag> :/
2008-03-19 22:40 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Its the last domain of strategy games where human minds can still reliably beat computers
2008-03-19 22:40 < ideogram> chess is a battle, go is the whole war
2008-03-19 22:40 < SynergeticMag> ah
2008-03-19 22:40 < SynergeticMag> lol
2008-03-19 22:40 < quanticle> ideogram: That's a pretty nice way of putting it.
2008-03-19 22:43 < SynergeticMag> omg
2008-03-19 22:43 < SynergeticMag> i sent the wrong move
2008-03-19 22:45 < SynergeticMag> oh wait, n/m :D
2008-03-19 22:45 < SynergeticMag> you don't discuss your moves quanticle?
2008-03-19 22:45 < Enterprise_Cat> If {{fact}} makes "[citation needed]", then what would {{fiction}} make?
2008-03-19 22:46 < SynergeticMag> a deleted sentence
2008-03-19 22:47 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: You want to take back those moves?
2008-03-19 22:47 < SynergeticMag> nope. i never do that
2008-03-19 22:47 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: If you want to, I'll see if the system allows it
2008-03-19 22:47 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Good thing. I haven't tried doing any sort of takebacks with RHP. I don't even know if they allow it.
2008-03-19 22:48 < Luna-San> I am absolutely terrible at Go.
2008-03-19 22:48 < Luna-San> But then I've never really been taught how to play, so.
2008-03-19 22:48 < SynergeticMag> i was just wondering if you talk about moves you and your opponents make
2008-03-19 22:48 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Not really. I have started logging chess games though, as per TheWeasel's advice...
2008-03-19 22:48 < SynergeticMag> that and, it appeared i made a wrong move (based on memory), but i didnt
2008-03-19 22:49 < SynergeticMag> or rather, a move i didnt intend to make
2008-03-19 22:50 < beepboop77> evening folks
2008-03-19 22:52 < beepboop77> irc-ing from a strange device. anyone confirm they can hear me
2008-03-19 22:52 < ideogram> ack
2008-03-19 22:52 < Enterprise_Cat> Hello beepboop77
2008-03-19 22:52 < beepboop77> thanks
2008-03-19 22:52 < Gwern-away> beepboop77: speak up! you're coming in faint
2008-03-19 22:53 < ideogram> can you hear me now?
2008-03-19 22:53 < Enterprise_Cat> ideogram: no
2008-03-19 22:53 < Gwern-away> ideogram: HELLO? ARE YOU THERE?
2008-03-19 23:04 < Luna-San> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jeremy_Roenick&diff=199517614&oldid=197896730 <-- somebody who knows hockey players?
2008-03-19 23:04 < Luna-San> Middle name got changed, I don't see a source for either, so...
2008-03-19 23:05 < SynergeticMag> quanticle: i'm off to bed
2008-03-19 23:05 < SynergeticMag> after i wake, i'll check in on it
2008-03-19 23:05 < quanticle> SynergeticMag: Ok. Me too.
2008-03-19 23:05 < SynergeticMag> night!
2008-03-19 23:05 < quanticle> Night
2008-03-19 23:05 < quanticle> Huh. Its already 23:05
2008-03-19 23:05 * quanticle is off to bed
2008-03-19 23:17 < Cyrius> Luna-San: it was correct before
2008-03-19 23:18 < Luna-San> Ah, thanks
2008-03-19 23:18 < Cyrius> I cited it =)
2008-03-19 23:19 < Luna-San> Double thanks. =D
2008-03-19 23:25 < Scream> quanticle|away 3.1415927
2008-03-19 23:25 < Enterprise_Cat> omg
2008-03-19 23:26 < Enterprise_Cat> I'm 1 on the access list o_O
2008-03-19 23:38 * Ceiling_Cat returns
2008-03-19 23:38 < denelson83> Enterprise_Cat: I'm 0
2008-03-19 23:38 < Enterprise_Cat> denelson83: Impossible
2008-03-19 23:38 < Enterprise_Cat> (I do get it)
2008-03-19 23:38 < denelson83> ¬_¬;;
2008-03-19 23:39 < denelson83> That's αδύνατος to you
2008-03-19 23:42 < Fixman> What happens with wikipedia? it isn't working
2008-03-19 23:43 < beepboop77> why are there red links? is that like a request for an article?
2008-03-19 23:44 < The359> they're a plague
2008-03-19 23:45 < beepboop77> hah why do people [[ ]] really obscure stuff
2008-03-19 23:51 * Enterprise_Cat is now going to bed, good night!
2008-03-20 00:00 < Mike5> hi Mike42
2008-03-20 00:30 < VegaDark> well this channel is quite busy
2008-03-20 00:40 * Mike42 waves to Mike5 (better late than never.. :))
2008-03-20 01:11 * Lubaf wonders if Ceiling_Cat remembers the fanfic from a few days ago.
2008-03-20 01:11 < Lubaf> Probably not.
2008-03-20 01:11 < Lubaf> It was funny, but not that memorable.
2008-03-20 01:12 < Cyrius> fanfic?
2008-03-20 01:12 * cimon is sorely tempted to play hooky and IRC when he should be in school today.
2008-03-20 01:12 < Lubaf> Cyrius: The LOLCats thing.
2008-03-20 01:12 < Cyrius> I either missed it, or my brain forgot it in self-defense
2008-03-20 01:13 < cimon> Lubaf: I thought the parable of the prodigal son, when translated to lolcat was awesomely poignant in the lolcat bible project.
2008-03-20 01:13 < Lubaf> Cyrius: Possibly both.
2008-03-20 01:13 < Lubaf> Either way, http://sam-storyteller.livejournal.com/126227.html
2008-03-20 01:14 < cimon> also the book of job in lolcatese is not bad
2008-03-20 01:14 < cimon> frankly the epistle of James could do some work.
2008-03-20 01:15 < Cyrius> Lubaf: oh, I saw that
2008-03-20 01:20 < Lubaf> Cyrius: Don't you mean "I SEE WAT U DID THERE"?
2008-03-20 01:21 < Cyrius> I really think I don't
2008-03-20 01:21 < Lubaf> [[Wikipedia:Not funny]]?
2008-03-20 01:22 < Lubaf> [Category:Articles that are not awesome enough]]: I see a great need...
2008-03-20 01:22 < Cyrius> [[Category:Articles in need of more koanbell]]
2008-03-20 01:23 < Lubaf> Although the name might be better rendered as [[Category:Articles in need of awesomeification]].
2008-03-20 01:23 < Cyrius> awesomeization
2008-03-20 01:26 < cimon> hi GerardM-
2008-03-20 01:27 < GerardM-> good morning cimon
2008-03-20 01:27 < GerardM-> have you read the user page of geoffrey plourde, the latest loud kid on the block ?
2008-03-20 01:27 < cimon> GerardM-, As highly as I personally think of your contribution to the mailing lists in general, I think you are maybe going somewhat close to the line over which much is too much...
2008-03-20 01:27 < GerardM-> if not, do. It is certainly amusing
2008-03-20 01:28 < cimon> GerardM-, Not really, and I don't so much care, words, just as cards, speak for themselves.
2008-03-20 01:28 < cimon> no need to consider the source.
2008-03-20 01:28 < cimon> play the ball, not the man.
2008-03-20 01:29 < GerardM-> well sometimes it is good to know the other side
2008-03-20 01:29 < GerardM-> it may teach you how they tackle
2008-03-20 01:29 < cimon> GerardM-, I think you too often play something other than the direct issue.