freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-19 17:20 < CrazyPhunk> ik vond bart de beste winnaar
2008-03-19 17:20 < [Martijn]> molens zij mooi
2008-03-19 17:20 < Hello32020> :D
2008-03-19 17:20 < The359> "It's well known by all of his close friends!"
2008-03-19 17:20 < CrazyPhunk> het was toch de eerste he
2008-03-19 17:20 < [Martijn]> zijn*
2008-03-19 17:20 < The359> Says who?
2008-03-19 17:20 < Cyrius> it just seems like some of the comments are less than nice
2008-03-19 17:20 < The359> "You're homophobes!"
2008-03-19 17:20 * The359 faceplants
2008-03-19 17:20 < ThePolecat> Arthur war schwul!
2008-03-19 17:20 < ThePolecat> not: "schwül"
2008-03-19 17:20 < sterkebak> yes sure - ja zeker
2008-03-19 17:20 < erwin85> Cyrius, nah. We're not offending anyone. We're just checking out this shiny new channel.
2008-03-19 17:20 < ThePolecat> which means "sultry"
2008-03-19 17:21 < CrazyPhunk> exactly
2008-03-19 17:21 < ThePolecat> "aber sicher
2008-03-19 17:21 < Cyrius> erwin85: it's hardly shiny or new
2008-03-19 17:21 < [Martijn]> right
2008-03-19 17:21 < CrazyPhunk> zie je wel, ik ken wel Engels :P
2008-03-19 17:21 < zvook> Clarke was never sultry
2008-03-19 17:21 < Cyrius> it's old and rusty.
2008-03-19 17:21 < [Martijn]> ik ken engels niet...wie is dat?
2008-03-19 17:21 < Luna-San> #wikipedia is far from shiny. It's a dumpster.
2008-03-19 17:21 < erwin85> Which makes it retro.
2008-03-19 17:21 < CrazyPhunk> Andre Engels
2008-03-19 17:21 < CrazyPhunk> ?
2008-03-19 17:21 < Mike_H> Hello32020: Matt and Ryan are up for eviction
2008-03-19 17:21 < [Martijn]> hehehe
2008-03-19 17:21 < Mike_H> Ryan has a good track record for nominations
2008-03-19 17:21 < ThePolecat> Friedrich Engels?
2008-03-19 17:21 < Romaine> dumpster?
2008-03-19 17:21 < Hello32020> I never watch Big Brother
2008-03-19 17:21 < sterkebak> i like retro
2008-03-19 17:21 < Mike_H> of the three times he's been nominated
2008-03-19 17:21 < The359> #Wikipedia is a cup
2008-03-19 17:21 < Mike_H> he's only been evicted one of them!
2008-03-19 17:21 < The359> Which is apparently used by two girls
2008-03-19 17:21 < [Martijn]> i watch heracles-roda
2008-03-19 17:21 < dotKoen> :D
2008-03-19 17:21 < ThePolecat> The359: Where are the two girls?
2008-03-19 17:22 < CrazyPhunk> het wordt wel een beetje druk hier opeens
2008-03-19 17:22 < ThePolecat> You win.
2008-03-19 17:22 < sterkebak> Cu? b75 ?
2008-03-19 17:22 < The359> Um...nearby?
2008-03-19 17:22 < The359> above us? below us?
2008-03-19 17:22 < Luna-San> The359: Can it be a cup of Mystery Liquid? >.>
2008-03-19 17:22 < The359> somewhere
2008-03-19 17:22 < Hello32020> Jericho is really the only show I'm watching every episode of now on TV (other than daily shows), 24 isn't on again until next year, they better not cancel Jericho
2008-03-19 17:22 < ThePolecat> Imagine all the ppl
2008-03-19 17:22 < The359> I don't recall it being liquid, Luna-San
2008-03-19 17:22 < The359> but I never saw the film
2008-03-19 17:22 * Luna-San neither
2008-03-19 17:22 < ThePolecat> living in one piece
2008-03-19 17:22 < CrazyPhunk> zullen we dan maar weer terug gaan naar nl?
2008-03-19 17:22 < Luna-San> I used to go out and hunt down shock images. Meh!
2008-03-19 17:22 < ThePolecat> oh ho ho (nappy headed)
2008-03-19 17:23 < [Martijn]> goed, ik heb het hier wel weer gezien...
2008-03-19 17:23 < ThePolecat> bleibt doch hier
2008-03-19 17:23 < Mike_H> http://www.cbs.com/primetime/big_brother_9/video/video.php?cid=627675731&play=true&cc=2
2008-03-19 17:23 < [Martijn]> saaie boel
2008-03-19 17:23 * Mike_H watches last night's Big Brother
2008-03-19 17:23 < Luna-San> ThePolecat: Careful. That can cost you your job as a radio show host. :o
2008-03-19 17:23 < [Martijn]> mazzel...
2008-03-19 17:23 * ThePolecat hat keinen Tee mehr
2008-03-19 17:23 < CrazyPhunk> ik zal wel uitleggen in het Engels waar dit nou voor bedoeld was
2008-03-19 17:23 < Hello32020> Does anyone know if CBS is continuing Jericho?
2008-03-19 17:24 < sterkebak> yes
2008-03-19 17:24 < ThePolecat> Yea, they employ Joshua.
2008-03-19 17:24 < ThePolecat> even though the locals are worried about the state of the masonry.
2008-03-19 17:24 < ThePolecat> but he has a great brass band
2008-03-19 17:24 < Hello32020> I wish IRC did an automatic translation of foriegn languages into your own, and vice versa
2008-03-19 17:25 < Luna-San> Hello32020: Hmm... not sure, the article doesn't seem to mention a third season
2008-03-19 17:25 < erwin85> Hello32020, like a [[Babel fish]]?
2008-03-19 17:25 < erwin85> Would be useful.
2008-03-19 17:26 < ThePolecat> Babelfish is ridiculously bad.
2008-03-19 17:26 < ThePolecat> (the extant one)
2008-03-19 17:26 < CrazyPhunk> Lady`s, Gentleman. We just invaded this channel with loads of Dutch users to point out the fact that this is channes is used as a substitition for #wikipedia-en. This channel needs to go about the whole Wiki project, not only about the English Wikipedia. But we left now to #wikipedia-nl. Please visit if you want to :)
2008-03-19 17:26 < sterkebak> !mod
2008-03-19 17:26 < ThePolecat> Google Translate German is bad beyond repair
2008-03-19 17:26 < erwin85> It appears we were wrong though.
2008-03-19 17:26 < ThePolecat> you're right
2008-03-19 17:26 < bumm13> >(,') <-- bonjour hello ohayoo hola
2008-03-19 17:26 < ThePolecat> it's just natural that not many people chime in
2008-03-19 17:27 < CrazyPhunk> We did this also becaus #wikipedia-en is very quit
2008-03-19 17:27 < CrazyPhunk> quiet
2008-03-19 17:27 < ThePolecat> dzien dobrze bummek
2008-03-19 17:27 < Luna-San> This channel's about Wikipedia? What's Wikipedia?
2008-03-19 17:27 < JohnReaves2> Who talks about Wikipedia here?
2008-03-19 17:27 < bumm13> speaking of Douglas Adams-derived stuff, I came across a neat story about him recently
2008-03-19 17:27 < bumm13> (or rather, something he once owned)
2008-03-19 17:27 < bumm13> http://www.vintagemacworld.com/iifx.html
2008-03-19 17:28 < erwin85> Luna-San, don't know. Something with a lot of channels in any case.
2008-03-19 17:28 < Luna-San> Loads. :<
2008-03-19 17:28 < ThePolecat> Oodles.
2008-03-19 17:28 * ThePolecat is very fond of the word "oodles"
2008-03-19 17:28 < bumm13> "I started up MacWrite Pro and noticed that it was registered to "Douglas Adams, Serious Productions Ltd". I paid little attention to this as I had seen warez copies of Claris software where the registered user was Douglas Adams."
2008-03-19 17:28 < Hello32020> ^^ your invasion will not work btw
2008-03-19 17:28 < Krimpet> that word's best when applied to noodles, of course.
2008-03-19 17:29 < ThePolecat> that's Category N
2008-03-19 17:29 < bumm13> "The copies of Claris Works 4.0 and Now Up-to-Date were registered to Jane Belson; I was unfamiliar with the name but a quick web search determined that she is Douglas Adams's widow."
2008-03-19 17:29 < ThePolecat> n-oodles
2008-03-19 17:29 * ThePolecat realizes he inspires no one and duly shuts up
2008-03-19 17:30 < bumm13> this was a system someone bought off ebay :x
2008-03-19 17:30 < Hello32020> paelolithic style diet is tommorow's tfa :D
2008-03-19 17:30 < Hello32020> lol
2008-03-19 17:30 * ThePolecat 's MSN messenger says "enter personal message here"
2008-03-19 17:30 * ThePolecat enters PERSONAL MESSAGE
2008-03-19 17:31 * ThePolecat 's client explodes in a logical loop
2008-03-19 17:31 < bumm13> aww, nobody liked my story :(
2008-03-19 17:31 < erwin85> I'm wondering if it's true or a hoax.
2008-03-19 17:32 < bumm13> maybe you should *read it* first ;p
2008-03-19 17:32 < erwin85> I just did.
2008-03-19 17:32 < bumm13> <<<|=|=|>>>
2008-03-19 17:32 < Hello32020> Attention those that attempted to send English Wikipedia users to our channel, you have not succeded, I just left it ;)
2008-03-19 17:32 < Hello32020> (De aandacht die niet die probeerden om Engelse gebruikers Wikipedia naar ons kanaal te sturen, hebt u succeded, verliet ik het enkel ;) )
2008-03-19 17:33 < ThePolecat> you ought to spell the things you babelfish correctly
2008-03-19 17:33 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 17:33 < CrazyPhunk> Hello32020:that didn`t make any sense
2008-03-19 17:33 < Romaine> the translation message was poorer than poor
2008-03-19 17:33 < Hello32020> ^^ babelfish translation
2008-03-19 17:33 < Romaine> very very very very worse babelfishtranslation
2008-03-19 17:34 < ThePolecat> if you'd put "succeeded" it might have parsed it somewhat less catastrophically
2008-03-19 17:34 < ThePolecat> but not ... much.
2008-03-19 17:34 < ThePolecat> good lord
2008-03-19 17:34 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 17:34 < Hello32020> De aandacht die die probeerden om Engelse gebruikers Wikipedia naar ons kanaal te sturen is, u niet geslaagd, verliet ik het enkel ;)
2008-03-19 17:34 < bumm13> babelfish seems to really suck with German
2008-03-19 17:35 < ThePolecat> thats dutch and it sucks almost as badly
2008-03-19 17:35 < ThePolecat> incomprehensively, systran translates "make" with "bilden", which is an arcane translation that's wrong 99% of the time
2008-03-19 17:35 < erwin85> We should just create some sort of newspeakian babelfish languages.
2008-03-19 17:36 < ThePolecat> ...when there's a perfectly good word that'll fit most of the time, "machen"
2008-03-19 17:37 < ThePolecat> the Romance translations are vaguely less catastrophic
2008-03-19 17:38 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 17:38 < ThePolecat> "Widderposaune"
2008-03-19 17:39 < Hello32020> hmm I am on the German wikipedia using the german --> english translator
2008-03-19 17:39 < ThePolecat> "ram trombone"
2008-03-19 17:39 < ThePolecat> for shofar
2008-03-19 17:39 < ThePolecat> German to English is somewhat better
2008-03-19 17:39 < ThePolecat> because it's from a complex grammar to a simple one
2008-03-19 17:40 < Hello32020> at present runs the 8th O_o
2008-03-19 17:40 < Romaine> German is more complex than Dutch, and Dutch is more complex than English
2008-03-19 17:40 < Romaine> French is somewhat between German and Dutch
2008-03-19 17:40 < CrazyPhunk> I think Dutch has more words in it`s language then English
2008-03-19 17:40 < ThePolecat> yea... I would say the Dutch word order can be even more difficult than German
2008-03-19 17:41 < ThePolecat> but in general, yea
2008-03-19 17:41 < CrazyPhunk> you could have 1 English word and 5 Dutch translations for it
2008-03-19 17:41 < Luna-San> To have perfect English->German grammar, just talk like Yoda. >.>
2008-03-19 17:42 < Romaine> No, we have in Dutch more word-order-spossiblities than in the English language
2008-03-19 17:42 < ThePolecat> well, English has probably the largest linguistic corpus of all languages
2008-03-19 17:42 < ThePolecat> haha yea
2008-03-19 17:42 < ThePolecat> yep, Dutch has more complex word order than even German
2008-03-19 17:42 < ThePolecat> sometimes
2008-03-19 17:43 < ThePolecat> English has a Latin and a German word for nearly everything
2008-03-19 17:43 < ThePolecat> whereas the German words are slowly dying
2008-03-19 17:43 < ThePolecat> they're still in the dictionary
2008-03-19 17:43 < CrazyPhunk> I heard Dutch is one of the most difficuld languages to learn
2008-03-19 17:43 < ThePolecat> the pronounciation
2008-03-19 17:43 < effeietsanders> nonsense
2008-03-19 17:44 < dotKoen> I doubt that
2008-03-19 17:44 < effeietsanders> Icelandic is much harder
2008-03-19 17:44 < effeietsanders> and numerous African and Asian languages
2008-03-19 17:44 < Hello32020> most english vulgar words are of Germanic origin (I believe this is due to the Romans characterizing Anglo-Saxon words as "dirty" or "bad" during their reign in England?)
2008-03-19 17:44 < ThePolecat> it's very difficult to speak accent-free Dutch as a foreigner, case in point, Claus von Amsberg
2008-03-19 17:44 < Romaine> the pronounciation is difficult because of the specific sounds in the mouth, but learning the words/grammar is not so difficult
2008-03-19 17:45 < effeietsanders> ThePolecat: is it at all possible to speak accent free English?
2008-03-19 17:45 < ThePolecat> the hardness of a language depends very much on what your own first language is
2008-03-19 17:45 < effeietsanders> for English even native speakers have many accent
2008-03-19 17:45 < dotKoen> exactly
2008-03-19 17:45 < effeietsanders> so accent is not really a good thing to measure :P
2008-03-19 17:45 < ThePolecat> if you're settling for a specific accent within English itself, yes it is
2008-03-19 17:45 < CrazyPhunk> We allways now if someone is true Dutch of from another country
2008-03-19 17:45 < Romaine> English is said to be closer to Dutch than to German, because German had a second soundchange
2008-03-19 17:45 < Cyrius> http://www.abyssandapex.com/200710-wikihistory.html
2008-03-19 17:45 < Krimpet> Hello32020: it might be more due to that French was the upper-class language in England, while English was spoken by the lower classes
2008-03-19 17:45 < Hello32020> well it would probably be easier for someone who speaks a Western European language to learn Dutch, than say one from another language family such as Mandarin
2008-03-19 17:45 < effeietsanders> same goes for Dutch btw
2008-03-19 17:45 < ThePolecat> Dutch is between English and German, but closer to the latter
2008-03-19 17:45 < effeietsanders> if the Queen would have been a foreigner
2008-03-19 17:46 < effeietsanders> everybody would have talked about her accent
2008-03-19 17:46 < effeietsanders> now she's just cute
2008-03-19 17:46 < CrazyPhunk> But we Dutch people learn lots of other language`s
2008-03-19 17:46 < dotKoen> cute?
2008-03-19 17:46 < ThePolecat> English is closer to Mandarin than any other language I'm aware of in Europe
2008-03-19 17:46 < effeietsanders> dotKoen: in being the only person on the world speaking like that :)
2008-03-19 17:46 < CrazyPhunk> English uses alot of Dutch words
2008-03-19 17:46 < Hello32020> oh
2008-03-19 17:46 < Hello32020> didn't know
2008-03-19 17:46 < dotKoen> and shamelessly overestimate our foreign language skills
2008-03-19 17:46 < dotKoen> (we dutchmen)
2008-03-19 17:47 < effeietsanders> certainly
2008-03-19 17:47 < ThePolecat> because there's next to no declension in English and none at all in Mandarin
2008-03-19 17:47 < effeietsanders> although most people speak to some extent English
2008-03-19 17:47 < effeietsanders> good enough to ask directions
2008-03-19 17:47 < CrazyPhunk> I heard from someone in Rome that they learn on school (Dutch word) that we Dutch people speak most languages
2008-03-19 17:47 < Hello32020> Well than lets say Arabic than, it would probably be easier for someone whose first language is English to learn Dutch than Arabic correct?
2008-03-19 17:47 < CrazyPhunk> wich is mostly true
2008-03-19 17:48 < CrazyPhunk> yes
2008-03-19 17:48 < CrazyPhunk> i think
2008-03-19 17:48 < ThePolecat> the Dutch and Scandinavians are among the best speakers of foreign languages on average, true
2008-03-19 17:48 < dotKoen> CrazyPhunk: school derives from ancient greek :)
2008-03-19 17:48 < CrazyPhunk> :)
2008-03-19 17:48 < CrazyPhunk> African is also Dutch
2008-03-19 17:49 < Hello32020> well most Americans are gonna know Spanish well soon due to mass immigration from our south (We're making progress :D ;) )
2008-03-19 17:49 < ThePolecat> whereas I speak better English than all English teachers from Italy I've met so far
2008-03-19 17:49 < CrazyPhunk> I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans
2008-03-19 17:49 < ThePolecat> kind of Simple Dutch
2008-03-19 17:49 < CrazyPhunk> Wich languages do people in de United States learn on school?
2008-03-19 17:49 < Romaine> it is for users of the latin alfabet easier to learn languages in the same alfabet because the characters are already familiar
2008-03-19 17:50 < Hello32020> Mostly Spanish, some offer Latin, French, and German.
2008-03-19 17:50 < ThePolecat> for reading fluently, certainly
2008-03-19 17:50 < CrazyPhunk> In The Netherlands, we learn English and German and sometime Frech and Spanish
2008-03-19 17:50 * ThePolecat has taken English, French and Latin, fairly common
2008-03-19 17:50 < dotKoen> I believe it is German 'or' French, these days?
2008-03-19 17:51 < Hello32020> I plan on learning Spanish pretty well, and then maybe Latin again (I took some last year and did horrible in it)
2008-03-19 17:51 < dotKoen> at least I believe
2008-03-19 17:51 < CrazyPhunk> yes
2008-03-19 17:51 * Lady_Aleena wishes she remembers more German that she does.
2008-03-19 17:51 < CrazyPhunk> Spanish is not common in the Netherlands
2008-03-19 17:51 < Romaine> basis languages in nl are English, French and German, and in some education als Greek and Latin
2008-03-19 17:52 < ThePolecat> My school only started offering Spanish when I left
2008-03-19 17:52 < ThePolecat> so I never got beyond the tourist level
2008-03-19 17:52 < CrazyPhunk> :)
2008-03-19 17:52 < ThePolecat> French helps me read it on a basic level
2008-03-19 17:52 < CrazyPhunk> I`m not good in German, but i get around
2008-03-19 17:53 < Hello32020> I proably won't need it that much though because I live in Pennsylvania (most Hispanics live in the southwest)
2008-03-19 17:53 < Hello32020> *probably
2008-03-19 17:53 < Romaine> if you go on vacation on other wiki's it is easy to be able speaking other languages
2008-03-19 17:53 < dotKoen> :)
2008-03-19 17:53 < CrazyPhunk> I was never thought French
2008-03-19 17:53 < ThePolecat> it's just in the profile of many people that might hire you
2008-03-19 17:53 < CrazyPhunk> (to bad)
2008-03-19 17:54 < ThePolecat> to be able to speak Spanish
2008-03-19 17:54 < Hello32020> yeah I know thats the main reason I'm taking it
2008-03-19 17:54 * ThePolecat only speaks English and French as second and third languages on any level at all
2008-03-19 17:55 < ThePolecat> the rest are aborted attempts at teaching myself stuff
2008-03-19 17:55 < White_Cat> ThePolecat I know you are ja-0
2008-03-19 17:55 < CrazyPhunk> I want to learn Turkish someday, I just know that a whole world would go open
2008-03-19 17:55 < dotKoen> but immigrants don't learn English in the US?
2008-03-19 17:55 < ThePolecat> I'm ja - -1
2008-03-19 17:55 < ThePolecat> Turkish is a crazy language
2008-03-19 17:55 < CrazyPhunk> i know
2008-03-19 17:55 < ThePolecat> agglutinative, matching vowels...
2008-03-19 17:56 * ThePolecat knows his twenty tourist words
2008-03-19 17:56 < CrazyPhunk> but we have tons of Turkish people around here in The Netherlands, so I want to know it when they are talking about me
2008-03-19 17:56 < Romaine> I am nl, en-3, de-2, li-2, af-2, fy-1, no-2, nds-1, nds-nl-2, zea-2
2008-03-19 17:56 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 17:56 < Romaine> and forgt some
2008-03-19 17:56 * ThePolecat is fluent in incomprehensible gibberish
2008-03-19 17:56 < dotKoen> In The Netherlands most immigrants probably speak morrocan (arabic), but I'm not aware of a dutchmen who learned morrocan to speak with those people?
2008-03-19 17:57 < Hello32020> Igpay Atinlay?
2008-03-19 17:57 < dotKoen> but in the US that is different with Spanish speaking immigrants?
2008-03-19 17:57 < CrazyPhunk> I am nl, en-3, de-2, af-1
2008-03-19 17:59 < Hello32020> I am en(-us-N), es-1 (more like 1.25-1.5)
2008-03-19 17:59 * ThePolecat is de-n en-3, fr-2, various dialects of German between 2 and 1
2008-03-19 17:59 < Romaine> Polecat: like nds?
2008-03-19 17:59 < Gwern-away> http://icanhascheezburger.com/2007/10/26/oh-hai-r-u-my-feetz/ <-- where did u gaiz come from?
2008-03-19 18:00 < CrazyPhunk> I know most Duch dialects and English and American-English
2008-03-19 18:00 < ThePolecat> yea, although I rarely am where it's spoken nowadays
2008-03-19 18:00 < Romaine> so that will be the south of Germany?
2008-03-19 18:00 < ThePolecat> but I could pull off a decent Rhine-Franconian, then more dialects that are not Wikipedia-worthy
2008-03-19 18:00 < ThePolecat> (RF meaning a Cologne accent)
2008-03-19 18:01 * CrazyPhunk is going to bed now (it`s midnight in the Netherlands)
2008-03-19 18:01 < ThePolecat> my native dialect is Berlin-tinged Hochdeutsch
2008-03-19 18:01 < Romaine> and midnight in Germany :p
2008-03-19 18:01 < ThePolecat> decent Pennsylvania Dutch if I just read a bit more, I believe :-D
2008-03-19 18:01 < CrazyPhunk> and midnight in France (A)
2008-03-19 18:02 < Hello32020> My native dialect is American English, with somewhat of a Philadelphia accent (I live in the suburbs and use to live closer)
2008-03-19 18:02 < CrazyPhunk> bye
2008-03-19 18:02 < ThePolecat> "Wikipedelchen"
2008-03-19 18:02 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 18:02 < Hello32020> see you later
2008-03-19 18:02 < CrazyPhunk> sure
2008-03-19 18:02 * ThePolecat would be considered accent-free here
2008-03-19 18:02 < ThePolecat> but I fall into a Berlin drawl if I feel relaxed or chummy
2008-03-19 18:03 < ThePolecat> Berlin-Brandenburgian has fallen through as a Wikipedia-worthy dialect
2008-03-19 18:03 < Romaine> you still visit Europe?
2008-03-19 18:03 < ThePolecat> Why'd I have to visit it?
2008-03-19 18:04 < Romaine> holiday?
2008-03-19 18:04 < Romaine> origin?
2008-03-19 18:04 < dotKoen> after 18 years of being confronted by US TV series, I still am not able to distinguish different american english accents :(
2008-03-19 18:04 * ThePolecat lives in Europe
2008-03-19 18:04 < Romaine> (oops :p)
2008-03-19 18:04 < ThePolecat> most people only know Southern and Massachusetts
2008-03-19 18:04 * jerusalemboogie lives in Yorkshire
2008-03-19 18:04 < ThePolecat> i.e. r-less
2008-03-19 18:05 < jerusalemboogie> but my crossbeams don't ont go askew on t'treddle
2008-03-19 18:05 < White_Cat> War must go ooooon!
2008-03-19 18:05 < White_Cat> http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/19/bush.iraq/index.html
2008-03-19 18:05 < White_Cat> LOL
2008-03-19 18:05 < ThePolecat> "you 'ad to go poncin' of to Bahnsley!"
2008-03-19 18:05 < White_Cat> I wish bush announced that with such a back ground music
2008-03-19 18:05 < jerusalemboogie> White_Cat: didn't he say "coastmenguards"?
2008-03-19 18:05 < ThePolecat> for family reasons, I'm also proficient at the Hannover accent
2008-03-19 18:07 < ThePolecat> but it's considered ugly by most of the world
2008-03-19 18:07 < ThePolecat> they have odd vowel shifts, ei => a; a => ö
2008-03-19 18:07 < Romaine> I do consider nothing as ugly
2008-03-19 18:07 < dotKoen> Romaine: eindhovens?
2008-03-19 18:08 < Romaine> every language has some interesting parts
2008-03-19 18:08 < Romaine> Wostrouts?
2008-03-19 18:08 < dotKoen> the dialect of Eindhoven is really ugly
2008-03-19 18:08 < ThePolecat> most people think the dialect of Leipzig is ugly
2008-03-19 18:09 < ThePolecat> my dad has a particular dislike for the dialect of the Palatinate
2008-03-19 18:10 < ThePolecat> Leipzig is what Birmingham is to the English
2008-03-19 18:10 < ThePolecat> just a deeply unpopular accent
2008-03-19 18:10 < dotKoen> I notice my accent is changing since I moved to Nijmegen
2008-03-19 18:11 < ThePolecat> http://ksh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houpsigk
2008-03-19 18:11 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 18:11 < Romaine> that was one of those which I missed: ksh-2
2008-03-19 18:11 < Romaine> ooeps: ksh-1
2008-03-19 18:12 < ThePolecat> minge fööß sin kald
2008-03-19 18:12 < ThePolecat> brb
2008-03-19 18:12 < ThePolecat> (East Ripuarian)
2008-03-19 18:12 < ThePolecat> ie. harsh Cologne accent
2008-03-19 18:12 < ThePolecat> I had a great-aunt who spoke like that
2008-03-19 18:13 < ThePolecat> there's this Cologne band, BAP, who use it
2008-03-19 18:13 < ThePolecat> "dänn kapott maache kannß De nix, et kütt nix fott un mer kann emmer widder holle, wat vürher enß jeshpëijshot woo."
2008-03-19 18:13 < ThePolecat> <3
2008-03-19 18:14 < ThePolecat> "because you cannot break anything, nothing goes away and you can always fetch what has been saved before"
2008-03-19 18:15 < noclip> bah, verizon sucks
2008-03-19 18:15 < noclip> you hear that NSA analyst tapping into my internet connection?
2008-03-19 18:16 < noclip> *comma after that
2008-03-19 18:16 * ThePolecat charges you before a kangaroo court with improper punctuation
2008-03-19 18:16 < ThePolecat> secret FISA justice!
2008-03-19 18:16 < noclip> but seriously
2008-03-19 18:16 < noclip> i called verizon
2008-03-19 18:17 < noclip> a nice woman kept reiterating that they don't throttle traffic
2008-03-19 18:17 < noclip> except they do
2008-03-19 18:17 < ThePolecat> trottle thraffic
2008-03-19 18:17 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 18:17 < ThePolecat> brb
2008-03-19 18:17 < bumm13> U.S. broadband is a sad state of affairs
2008-03-19 18:17 < bumm13> (consumer broadband)
2008-03-19 18:17 < noclip> bumm13: that's pretty obvious
2008-03-19 18:18 < noclip> the internet as it exists today will cease to exist in the next 5 years
2008-03-19 18:18 < bumm13> but we've been bungling our consumer telecommunications here for decades, nothing especially new :P
2008-03-19 18:18 < noclip> you're going to have different "plans" with access to certain sites and services
2008-03-19 18:18 * SynergeticMag yawns
2008-03-19 18:18 < bumm13> no yawning in the IRC channel
2008-03-19 18:19 < SynergeticMag> nazi!
2008-03-19 18:19 < bumm13> >:D
2008-03-19 18:19 < noclip> you want google? that's included in the basic plan. you want to chat on IRC? that's a "business" use, $400/mo please
2008-03-19 18:19 < SynergeticMag> only nazi's make hate faces :)
2008-03-19 18:19 < noclip> you want youtube? we'll give you viewing only for your $50/mo
2008-03-19 18:19 < bumm13> noclip - they'd like that a lot
2008-03-19 18:19 < noclip> if you want to upload that'll cost you an extra $50
2008-03-19 18:19 < noclip> that's what it will be
2008-03-19 18:19 < noclip> guaranteed
2008-03-19 18:19 < ThePolecat> well, that would be artificially expensive
2008-03-19 18:20 < noclip> well, it'd be priced like cable tv
2008-03-19 18:20 < noclip> the basic plan includes the most common corporate sites
2008-03-19 18:20 < ThePolecat> hm... there's simple cable and there's pay-tv here
2008-03-19 18:20 < ThePolecat> the worst thing that can happen is that some soccer is only shown on pay-tv
2008-03-19 18:20 < ThePolecat> but that's rare
2008-03-19 18:20 < noclip> if you want something like slashdot, you'll have to buy a "premium" plan
2008-03-19 18:21 < noclip> if you want to download independent podcasts, forget it
2008-03-19 18:21 < ThePolecat> the internet is inseperable
2008-03-19 18:21 < ThePolecat> *a
2008-03-19 18:21 < Romaine> greetings everyone, it was nice stalking here :p
2008-03-19 18:21 < noclip> the actual network is, more or less
2008-03-19 18:21 < Romaine> have a goog night for those who are having a night
2008-03-19 18:22 < ThePolecat> will try.
2008-03-19 18:22 < noclip> that doesn't mean the consumer ISPs can't decide to block everything and package up different types of sites and services
2008-03-19 18:22 < bumm13> too bad tor is slow ;p
2008-03-19 18:22 < ThePolecat> well, the internet is not something that you just dump something on.
2008-03-19 18:22 < mexicanbanana> Nowhere in the The Twilight Zone article do I see a mention of how often the original series was aired. Was it weekly or monthly?
2008-03-19 18:22 < ThePolecat> there'll always be providers who don't
2008-03-19 18:23 < noclip> "no tor, sorry, we don't allow traffic that looks like it's encrypted"
2008-03-19 18:23 < noclip> ThePolecat: nonsense
2008-03-19 18:23 < noclip> it's basically verizon, comcast, and at&t
2008-03-19 18:23 < ThePolecat> how's that nonsense
2008-03-19 18:23 < ThePolecat> hm
2008-03-19 18:23 < noclip> if those three move to a hideous tiered model
2008-03-19 18:23 < bumm13> noclip: and Qwest :P
2008-03-19 18:23 < noclip> there would be no alternatives
2008-03-19 18:24 < noclip> independent ISPs have to rent the big guys' networks
2008-03-19 18:24 < ThePolecat> but I mean that would mean your internet costs go up for the things you were always doing
2008-03-19 18:24 < bumm13> and cable providers like Cox, Roadrunner, etc.
2008-03-19 18:24 < ThePolecat> your old contracts would have to be massively adapted
2008-03-19 18:24 < ThePolecat> which is usually hard without a good reason
2008-03-19 18:24 < noclip> not really
2008-03-19 18:24 < ThePolecat> and then there's anti-trust laws
2008-03-19 18:24 < noclip> if push comes to shove they can cancel your contract at will
2008-03-19 18:24 < noclip> you can't, but they can
2008-03-19 18:25 < ThePolecat> you wouldn't want to
2008-03-19 18:25 < ThePolecat> so, don't panic
2008-03-19 18:25 < noclip> they'll do it
2008-03-19 18:25 < noclip> and i actually don't blame them, they're companies, that's what they do
2008-03-19 18:25 < noclip> it's like blaming a dog for trying to smell it's own ass
2008-03-19 18:25 < dotKoen> 21
2008-03-19 18:25 < Messedrocker> my hair feels like being really curly
2008-03-19 18:25 < ThePolecat> but why haven't they done it much earlier?
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> boiling the frog, etc, et.c
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> *etc.
2008-03-19 18:26 < ThePolecat> hm
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> first they came for the net neutrality, but i was not a web startup, so i didn't speak up
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> etc.
2008-03-19 18:26 < ThePolecat> that would be clearly against the laws forbidding exploitation of an economic position of power
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> hah!
2008-03-19 18:26 < ThePolecat> net neutrality ain't dead yet, is it
2008-03-19 18:26 < noclip> laws?
2008-03-19 18:27 < bumm13> those are no longer relevant, sadly
2008-03-19 18:27 < noclip> they scoff at your puny laws
2008-03-19 18:27 < ThePolecat> well, take em to court, they'll stop scoffing
2008-03-19 18:27 < bumm13> otherwise these "Baby Bells" would never have been allowed to in-breed
2008-03-19 18:27 < ThePolecat> hm yea
2008-03-19 18:27 < noclip> no, they'll buy enough lawyers to get a ruling in their favor
2008-03-19 18:27 < bumm13> court: a place where the other party has lots more money and attorneys than you do
2008-03-19 18:28 < ThePolecat> lawyers don't buy a ruling, arguments do
2008-03-19 18:28 < noclip> you wish
2008-03-19 18:28 < ThePolecat> but the laws are apparently pretty weak.
2008-03-19 18:28 < noclip> money can buy anything
2008-03-19 18:28 < Hello32020> hopefully FCC causes ISPs to be net neutral
2008-03-19 18:28 < Hello32020> *the FCC
2008-03-19 18:28 < noclip> hah!
2008-03-19 18:28 < noclip> (again)
2008-03-19 18:28 < ThePolecat> oh, I have a fairly good deal of trust in American judges.
2008-03-19 18:28 < ThePolecat> not in American legal procedure though
2008-03-19 18:29 < noclip> ThePolecat: the sane ones are in lower courts
2008-03-19 18:29 < ThePolecat> the non-political appointments...
2008-03-19 18:29 < Hello32020> When do you guys see the next REAL version of the Internet coming or a new medium similar to the Internet (15 years?)
2008-03-19 18:29 < noclip> but seriously
2008-03-19 18:29 < ThePolecat> ah, the joys of court-stacking
2008-03-19 18:30 < noclip> i'd bet good money that we'll have a packaged/teired internet within 5 years
2008-03-19 18:30 < Ausir> http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23401010-2,00.html
2008-03-19 18:30 < Ausir> an 81-year-old man commited suicide using a remote-controlled killer robot he constructed, which shot him with a gun
2008-03-19 18:30 < ThePolecat> I think having a government-held company responsible for the network is good after all
2008-03-19 18:30 < Ausir> anyone ever heard of a cooler way to commit suicide?
2008-03-19 18:30 < noclip> beat yourself to death
2008-03-19 18:30 < Hello32020> Robots must be involved in NWO conspiracy!
2008-03-19 18:30 < Hello32020> ;)
2008-03-19 18:30 < ThePolecat> That would be the death of internet as anything more than a business tool.
2008-03-19 18:30 < ThePolecat> just won't happen, culturally
2008-03-19 18:31 < noclip> you'll always be able to buy a t1 line and get real access
2008-03-19 18:31 < noclip> just like you can today in iran
2008-03-19 18:31 < ThePolecat> television dies because it's too unwieldy
2008-03-19 18:31 < ThePolecat> see above
2008-03-19 18:31 < noclip> but the affordably priced lines will be teired
2008-03-19 18:31 < ThePolecat> only for business will that happen
2008-03-19 18:31 < bumm13> T1 lines are leased
2008-03-19 18:31 < ThePolecat> nobody will use those things
2008-03-19 18:32 < ThePolecat> people boycott TV-for-pay here
2008-03-19 18:32 < noclip> joe average will pay $350/mo for 1.5mbps?
2008-03-19 18:32 < ThePolecat> and they will boycott internet
2008-03-19 18:32 < ThePolecat> until those people go bankrupt and sanity comes back
2008-03-19 18:32 < bumm13> ThePolecat: U.S. broadcast TV content is a bad joke
2008-03-19 18:32 < Hello32020> TV over IP will probably be more realistic to take over standard TV in the U.S. in about 15-25 years....correct?
2008-03-19 18:32 < bumm13> Hello32020: I wouldn't hold my breath
2008-03-19 18:32 < ThePolecat> not all of it
2008-03-19 18:32 < noclip> i'm telling you, you're all way to optimistic
2008-03-19 18:33 < noclip> *too
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> well
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> there are still customers
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> and if enough people boycott it, it hurts the stations
2008-03-19 18:33 < noclip> i don't really care much, because i'll just buy a t1
2008-03-19 18:33 < Hello32020> Well, technology has USUALLY developed in recent history quicker than expected
2008-03-19 18:33 < noclip> internet access is worth it to me
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> worked with pay-tv here
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> I think people in the US are readier to spend money.
2008-03-19 18:33 < ThePolecat> so I dunno
2008-03-19 18:34 < ThePolecat> I wouldn't.
2008-03-19 18:34 < noclip> but you tell the average american that they can get the top ranked 250 sites in the US for $30/mo, or everything for $350, they'll pick the $30
2008-03-19 18:34 < ThePolecat> I'd do what I must at my university and go back to pen and paper
2008-03-19 18:34 < ThePolecat> or the place I work later
2008-03-19 18:35 < noclip> you give 80% of the public access to those top 250 sites, they won't bat an eyelid at all the others being blocked
2008-03-19 18:35 < mexicanbanana> Nowhere in the The Twilight Zone article do I see a mention of how often the original series was aired. Was it weekly or monthly?
2008-03-19 18:35 < Hello32020> ehhh not much purpose in blocking not-popular sites if they aren't torrents for the ISPs
2008-03-19 18:36 < bumm13> noclip: one important difference from TV viewership: more non-idiots (regarding access) exist on the Internet than among cable/sat. TV subscribers
2008-03-19 18:36 < noclip> as long as they can view youtube videos or use twifacespacebookster they won't mind
2008-03-19 18:36 < noclip> bumm13: it's still a minority
2008-03-19 18:36 < Messedrocker> twi?
2008-03-19 18:36 < Hello32020> I just see them completely blocking torrents thats it
2008-03-19 18:36 < noclip> the non-idiots will just buy T1s
2008-03-19 18:36 < ThePolecat> they'll soon be annoyed at the limits when they google.
2008-03-19 18:36 < bumm13> noclip: nonsense
2008-03-19 18:37 < bumm13> most people cannot afford to LEASE a T1
2008-03-19 18:37 < bumm13> (there are not purchased)
2008-03-19 18:37 < bumm13> *they
2008-03-19 18:37 < noclip> yeah
2008-03-19 18:37 < mexicanbanana> Hello? :(
2008-03-19 18:37 < noclip> but you actually can purchase a line or even bury your own
2008-03-19 18:37 < Messedrocker> they'll form T1 co-ops then :D
2008-03-19 18:37 < Hello32020> hey noclip you have FiOS like me :D
2008-03-19 18:37 < noclip> it just costs massive bucks
2008-03-19 18:37 < Messedrocker> i have FiOS too
2008-03-19 18:37 < Messedrocker> noclip, what about T1 co-ops
2008-03-19 18:38 < noclip> Hello32020: yeah, and i'm pissed at their throttling of bittorrent
2008-03-19 18:38 < bumm13> nevermind that a T1 line has to be near where one lives
2008-03-19 18:38 < mexicanbanana> I just watched the last of the 156 episodes of the original The Twilight Zone TV series. At least 100 of them were top qualtiy. Really amazing.
2008-03-19 18:38 < Messedrocker> one organization buys T1 for a bunch of people
2008-03-19 18:38 < Hello32020> eh I don't use torrents
2008-03-19 18:38 < noclip> i'm not talking about movies and music
2008-03-19 18:38 < ThePolecat> humans always find a way to deal with adverse conditions, BUT
2008-03-19 18:38 < noclip> i'm talking about all torrents
2008-03-19 18:38 < Hello32020> I just like the quicker connection and non failure rate/unplugging router compared to standard Comcast cable
2008-03-19 18:38 < ThePolecat> I really don't think making compromises would cut it here
2008-03-19 18:38 < Messedrocker> comcast is evil
2008-03-19 18:38 < Messedrocker> comcast is actually chartered by satan
2008-03-19 18:39 < ThePolecat> they need to be reminded what the internet is
2008-03-19 18:39 < noclip> linux distros, HD video podcasts, high-resolution NASA imagery
2008-03-19 18:39 < bumm13> Comcast is our local cable monopoly
2008-03-19 18:39 < noclip> Messedrocker: again, they're not evil, that's just the nature of what they are
2008-03-19 18:39 < Hello32020> Bin Laden is threatening the EU over the Mohammad cartoons in an audio message
2008-03-19 18:39 < ThePolecat> yay for market economies allowing cable monopolies
2008-03-19 18:39 < ThePolecat> isn't capitalism wonderful?
2008-03-19 18:39 < noclip> what we would call greed in reference to a human is built in to companies
2008-03-19 18:40 * bumm13 thinks that Osama bin Laden is irrelevant
2008-03-19 18:40 < Messedrocker> ThePolecat, capitalism is soooo wonderful, I am going to subjugate you now!
2008-03-19 18:40 < ThePolecat> Muhammad cartoons? What year is he in?
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> ThePolecat: they don't
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> the government awarded the monopolies
2008-03-19 18:40 < Hello32020> I'm so glad they expanded FiOS into the Philadelphia area, Comcast was getting horrible
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> *s
2008-03-19 18:40 < ThePolecat> ...per law
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> local governments
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> at least for cable monopolies
2008-03-19 18:40 < noclip> verizon is the fault of the federal regulators
2008-03-19 18:41 < ThePolecat> well yes, but those decisions have a legal nature
2008-03-19 18:41 < Hello32020> Its actually cheaper to get FiOS around here then what Comcast was costing us
2008-03-19 18:41 < Golbez> it's harsh to blame the market economy for what the government does
2008-03-19 18:41 < Hello32020> and its much bettter
2008-03-19 18:41 < noclip> yeah, the market doesn't want monopolies, they're inefficient
2008-03-19 18:41 * bumm13 doubts that FiOS is available in his locale
2008-03-19 18:42 < ThePolecat> Markets always reduce competition if left to their own devices.
2008-03-19 18:42 < Hello32020> what's your connection speed?
2008-03-19 18:42 < bumm13> mine?
2008-03-19 18:42 < Hello32020> well all of yours
2008-03-19 18:42 < noclip> they may reduce it, but not to a single monopoly
2008-03-19 18:42 < bumm13> 1.5 Mbps download DSL
2008-03-19 18:42 < bumm13> (IIRC)
2008-03-19 18:42 < ThePolecat> if possible...
2008-03-19 18:42 < Hello32020> 5+ Mbps download FiOS (and this is lower end :D )
2008-03-19 18:43 < noclip> by the way, fios is just away to kill of independent ISPs
2008-03-19 18:43 < noclip> *off
2008-03-19 18:43 < bumm13> on the downside, you live near Philadelphia ;p
2008-03-19 18:43 < Hello32020> eh Chester County isn't too bad
2008-03-19 18:43 < noclip> verizon doesn't have to let indepedents use their fiber as they did with the copper
2008-03-19 18:43 < ThePolecat> no company will let the single source of competition alive if given the chance to deal with it
2008-03-19 18:44 < noclip> ThePolecat: the market doesn't give them a chance
2008-03-19 18:44 < Hello32020> noclip what is your speed?
2008-03-19 18:44 < ThePolecat> it happens.
2008-03-19 18:44 < Hello32020> (internet)
2008-03-19 18:44 < noclip> 15/2
2008-03-19 18:44 < noclip> allegedly
2008-03-19 18:44 < Hello32020> nic
2008-03-19 18:44 < Hello32020> nice
2008-03-19 18:44 < noclip> for torrents it's more like 1/0.5
2008-03-19 18:44 < Golbez> ThePolecat- example?
2008-03-19 18:44 < bumm13> test your speed
2008-03-19 18:44 < Hello32020> speedtest.net
2008-03-19 18:44 < ThePolecat> "the market" doesn't exist independently of the economic activity of its participants
2008-03-19 18:44 < noclip> bumm13: real speed is about 8/2
2008-03-19 18:44 < Golbez> show me an example of how a company has attempted or succeeded to become a monopoly without government assistance
2008-03-19 18:45 < Golbez> the market *is* the economic activity of its participants.
2008-03-19 18:45 < Hello32020> does MSFT have government assistance (they probably do, I don't know though)
2008-03-19 18:45 < noclip> Golbez: take out the "attempted" part and i'll agree with you
2008-03-19 18:45 < Messedrocker> MSFT?
2008-03-19 18:45 < Golbez> noclip- even attempted, really. and by attempted, i mean actually making a real effort at it and making some inroads
2008-03-19 18:45 < Golbez> Hello32020- is microsoft a monopoly? far from it
2008-03-19 18:45 < ThePolecat> Depends on which framework the monopoly is supposed to be in
2008-03-19 18:46 < noclip> MICROS~1
2008-03-19 18:46 < Hello32020> They dominate the PC market
2008-03-19 18:46 < Hello32020> (their OS at least)
2008-03-19 18:46 < Golbez> I use software created by Adobe, Red Hat, Sun, and the Mozilla Foundation
2008-03-19 18:46 < Golbez> domination != monopoly
2008-03-19 18:46 < Hello32020> I still have good old Windows XP Service Pack 2
2008-03-19 18:46 < Golbez> based on what ThePolecat said, Microsoft is at this moment attempting to buy or destroy Red Hat.
2008-03-19 18:46 < bumm13> yikes, I just tested and only got 887 kbps :O
2008-03-19 18:46 < denelson83> MSFT stands for "murderers, shysters, frauds and thieves"
2008-03-19 18:47 < bumm13> (I know, peak usage time, but still...)
2008-03-19 18:47 < ThePolecat> electricity companies divided Germany all on their own, without governments telling them too, and don't allow any competition in their sectors.
2008-03-19 18:47 < Hello32020> Polecat and Denelson what are your connection sppeds?
2008-03-19 18:47 < Golbez> for example... *tries to think* for a long time, Nintendo dominated the video game market, but no one would dare accuse them of having a monopoly. It wasn't their fault the Master System sucked.
2008-03-19 18:47 < ThePolecat> prices are artificially hight
2008-03-19 18:47 < noclip> and GOOG stands for National Security Agency
2008-03-19 18:47 < ThePolecat> -t
2008-03-19 18:47 * denelson83 doesn't test his speed
2008-03-19 18:47 < Golbez> ThePolecat- How do they prevent competition?
2008-03-19 18:47 < ThePolecat> by owning the cables
2008-03-19 18:47 < Hello32020> polecat can you tell/test your speed? (just intertested)
2008-03-19 18:48 < Golbez> How do they prevent companies from building new power lines?
2008-03-19 18:48 < ThePolecat> and the infrastructure
2008-03-19 18:48 < noclip> guess who gave them the money to build those cables
2008-03-19 18:48 < bumm13> ok, 1028 kbps, that's closer to what I pay for ;p
2008-03-19 18:48 < noclip> guess who cave ALL the cable-building money to ONE company?
2008-03-19 18:48 < noclip> *gave
2008-03-19 18:48 < ThePolecat> that would always involve interference with the existing system which they don't have to suffer unless they want to
2008-03-19 18:48 < Hello32020> FiOS never seems to slow down during peak hours
2008-03-19 18:49 < noclip> verizon is a tier 1
2008-03-19 18:49 < noclip> fios should never slow down, period
2008-03-19 18:49 < bumm13> denelson83: just never feel like it?
2008-03-19 18:49 < noclip> there's no reason for it to
2008-03-19 18:49 < noclip> they have as much bandwidth as they want
2008-03-19 18:50 < noclip> yet they throttle torrents
2008-03-19 18:50 < noclip> probably at the behest of the MAFIAA
2008-03-19 18:51 < ThePolecat> some big companies should be held as accountable as the government.
2008-03-19 18:51 < ThePolecat> they're quasi-governments
2008-03-19 18:51 < ShakespeareFan00> ThePolecat: ROFL
2008-03-19 18:51 < ThePolecat> things that in old economic systems governments used to provide
2008-03-19 18:51 < ShakespeareFan00> Are you some kind of commie freak?
2008-03-19 18:51 < Golbez> ThePolecat- which companies can kill people who don't buy their products?