freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-19 07:08 < Mike_H> and I think Debbie Gibson too
2008-03-19 07:09 * ThePolecat is NP: Spencer Davis Group - Keep On Running (UK No. 1 in January 1966)
2008-03-19 07:09 * NotACow is beiing amused at the moment by the chart of the MTBI typings of the wikimedia staff on danny's blog
2008-03-19 07:09 < ThePolecat> (case in point)
2008-03-19 07:09 < Phoenix-wiki> linky?
2008-03-19 07:09 < NotACow> http://allswool.blogspot.com/2008/03/analytical-psychology-of-wikimedia.html
2008-03-19 07:09 < Phoenix-wiki> :-)
2008-03-19 07:10 * Mike_H NP: Dexy's Midnight Runners - Come On Eileen (US No. 1 in April 1983)
2008-03-19 07:10 < NotACow> Mike_H: i thought i broke your MP3 player
2008-03-19 07:10 < Mike_H> NotACow: I'm surprised Come On Eileen didn't.
2008-03-19 07:10 * Phoenix-wiki has heard that song
2008-03-19 07:11 * Phoenix-wiki has a freind who every calls eileen to annoy him, and they always play that song
2008-03-19 07:11 < ThePolecat> *The Searchers - Don't Throw Your Love Away (UK No. 1 in May 1964)
2008-03-19 07:12 < ThePolecat> "Get Offa My Cloud" by the Stones is perhaps the rockingest No. 1 ever
2008-03-19 07:13 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Let me find my favorite '80s #1 when this is done
2008-03-19 07:14 < NotACow> ha. Erik is the "mastermind" and Sue is the "Field Marshal"
2008-03-19 07:14 < Mike_H> found it!
2008-03-19 07:14 * Mike_H NP: Simple Minds - Don't You (Forget About Me) (US No. 1 in May 1985)
2008-03-19 07:15 < ThePolecat> Gah.
2008-03-19 07:15 < ThePolecat> BRR
2008-03-19 07:15 < Mike_H> You don't like that song?
2008-03-19 07:16 < ThePolecat> That would be a gross understatement.
2008-03-19 07:16 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Fine, I'll get another one. I like this one too.
2008-03-19 07:16 < ThePolecat> hm... maybe the fake reggae feeling of UB40's Red Red Wine
2008-03-19 07:16 * Mike_H NP: a-ha - Take On Me (US No. 1 in September 1985)
2008-03-19 07:16 < ThePolecat> same genre
2008-03-19 07:17 < ThePolecat> they took 80s "cool music" the wrong way
2008-03-19 07:17 < ThePolecat> Maybe Foreigner's grandiosity I Wanna Know What Love Is
2008-03-19 07:17 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: it was actually October 1985, sorry
2008-03-19 07:18 < ThePolecat> La Isla Bonita is a strong contender.
2008-03-19 07:18 < Mike_H> Foreigner's "I Want to Know What Love Is" was a US No. 1 in February 1985.
2008-03-19 07:18 < ThePolecat> Some early Madonna is vaguely listenable
2008-03-19 07:18 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Oh, La Isla Bonita was never a #1 hit here
2008-03-19 07:18 < Mike_H> It was a #1 over a lot of Europe
2008-03-19 07:18 < Mike_H> but here it was #4
2008-03-19 07:19 < ThePolecat> and I used to play T'Pau's China In Your Hand as a warm-up for piano practice
2008-03-19 07:19 < ThePolecat> but it's been a long time
2008-03-19 07:19 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Here, pick a week in a month in a year in the 1980s.
2008-03-19 07:19 < Mike_H> ex: "First week of January, 1980"
2008-03-19 07:19 < Mike_H> and I'll play the #1 for that week
2008-03-19 07:20 < ThePolecat> haha ...
2008-03-19 07:20 < ThePolecat> hm
2008-03-19 07:20 < ThePolecat> Third week of January 1988.
2008-03-19 07:20 < Mike_H> okay
2008-03-19 07:20 * Mike_H NP: George Harrison - Got My Mind Set on You (US No. 1 in January 1988)
2008-03-19 07:21 < nazgjunk> hahahaha
2008-03-19 07:21 < nazgjunk> awesome
2008-03-19 07:21 < nazgjunk> love that song for some reason
2008-03-19 07:21 < nazgjunk> 88 is a fine year ^^
2008-03-19 07:21 < ThePolecat> I was trying to make you listen to Belinda Carlisle - Heaven Is A Place On Earth by extrapolating from the UK
2008-03-19 07:21 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: You would have needed to ask for
2008-03-19 07:21 < Mike_H> the first week of December
2008-03-19 07:21 < Mike_H> 1987.
2008-03-19 07:22 < ThePolecat> oh, fair enough
2008-03-19 07:22 < ThePolecat> slow Brits
2008-03-19 07:22 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: but no cheating by looking!
2008-03-19 07:23 < Mike_H> the whole nuance of it is for me to not expect what it is, or you.
2008-03-19 07:23 < ThePolecat> heh...
2008-03-19 07:23 < ThePolecat> Third week of June 1986.
2008-03-19 07:23 < Mike_H> let me see
2008-03-19 07:24 < Mike_H> I fucking hate you
2008-03-19 07:24 * Mike_H NP: Patti LaBelle and Michael McDonald - On My Own (US No. 1 in June 1986)
2008-03-19 07:24 < ThePolecat> hehe
2008-03-19 07:25 * ThePolecat looks at the hawtness of Kim Carnes
2008-03-19 07:25 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: We might actually be in sync with Bette Davis Eyes if you use the UK date
2008-03-19 07:25 < Mike_H> that was a big hit here in '81
2008-03-19 07:26 < ThePolecat> Oh, JC Mellencamp, the rich kids Springsteen was No. 1, that's not too awful
2008-03-19 07:26 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 07:26 < Mike_H> God, this is like nails on a chalkboard
2008-03-19 07:26 < Mike_H> I have to stop it
2008-03-19 07:26 < Mike_H> what's the next date you have picked?
2008-03-19 07:27 < ThePolecat> just a second
2008-03-19 07:27 * ThePolecat gets a random date generator
2008-03-19 07:29 < Mike_H> got it?
2008-03-19 07:29 < ThePolecat> okay, nm
2008-03-19 07:30 < Mike_H> Just pick something
2008-03-19 07:30 < ThePolecat> to bridge the gap, what about the week of July 11, 1982?
2008-03-19 07:30 < Mike_H> let me look
2008-03-19 07:30 < Mike_H> okay, this one's okay
2008-03-19 07:30 * Mike_H NP: Human League - Don't You Want Me (US No. 1 in July 1982)
2008-03-19 07:31 < Mike_H> don't you want me baby
2008-03-19 07:31 < Mike_H> don't you want me
2008-03-19 07:31 < Mike_H> ohhhhhh
2008-03-19 07:31 < ThePolecat> yea, non-catastrophic
2008-03-19 07:32 < ThePolecat> after that, July 23, 1985
2008-03-19 07:32 < ThePolecat> (random now)
2008-03-19 07:32 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 07:32 < Mike_H> okay, let me find it
2008-03-19 07:33 * Mike_H NP: Duran Duran - A View to a Kill (US No. 1 in July 1985)
2008-03-19 07:34 < ThePolecat> I don't know that one
2008-03-19 07:34 < ThePolecat> is it bearable?
2008-03-19 07:34 < Mike_H> It kind of sucks, not gonna lie
2008-03-19 07:34 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 07:35 < ThePolecat> How about Feb 8, 1982?
2008-03-19 07:35 < Mike_H> please God, give me another date so this song can go away
2008-03-19 07:35 < Mike_H> oh, there it is
2008-03-19 07:35 < Mike_H> okay
2008-03-19 07:35 < pengo> authur c clarke dead age 90.. never got to see the six-core intel processor he envisaged
2008-03-19 07:35 * Mike_H NP: J. Geils Band - Centerfold (US No. 1 in February 1982)
2008-03-19 07:35 < ThePolecat> humpa rock
2008-03-19 07:35 < Mike_H> I love this song <333
2008-03-19 07:36 < ThePolecat> I need food and will brb. Until then, try May 3, 1989
2008-03-19 07:36 < Mike_H> okay.
2008-03-19 07:37 * Mike_H NP: Madonna - Like a Prayer (US No. 1 in May 1989)
2008-03-19 07:37 < ThePolecat> oh, congrats
2008-03-19 07:37 < ThePolecat> brb
2008-03-19 07:37 < Mike_H> <3
2008-03-19 07:37 < ThePolecat> I think that is a song whose style is at least ten years ahead of its time.
2008-03-19 07:38 < ThePolecat> very prophetic.
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Did you ever see the movie Never Been Kissed?
2008-03-19 07:38 < ThePolecat> no
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> It's about a 25-year-old who goes back and pretends to be in high school
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> this movie was like 10 years ago
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> Drew Barrymore was the star
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> and they did '80s flashbacks
2008-03-19 07:38 < ThePolecat> hm
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> and she flashbacked to her prom
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> she's wearing this shiny fucking metallic dress
2008-03-19 07:38 < Mike_H> with braces and acne
2008-03-19 07:39 < Mike_H> and they play "Like a Prayer" in the background
2008-03-19 07:39 < Mike_H> hilarious
2008-03-19 07:39 < ThePolecat> ah, I hate that fake "wallflower-becomes-beauty" thing
2008-03-19 07:40 < ThePolecat> March 7, 1985.
2008-03-19 07:40 < ThePolecat> And I'll brb
2008-03-19 07:40 < Mike_H> ThePolecat: Like a Prayer is one of the songs where Madonna looks her most...ethnic.
2008-03-19 07:40 < Mike_H> Very Italian-looking in that one.
2008-03-19 07:40 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 07:41 * Mike_H NP: Wham! featuring George Michael - Careless Whisper (US No. 1 in March 1985)
2008-03-19 07:41 < ThePolecat> muhahah
2008-03-19 07:41 < ThePolecat> serves you right
2008-03-19 07:45 < Mike_H> okay, now I'm going to pick one for myself.
2008-03-19 07:45 < Mike_H> last week in March
2008-03-19 07:45 < Mike_H> 1981!
2008-03-19 07:45 * Mike_H goes
2008-03-19 07:46 < Mike_H> ugh, :(
2008-03-19 07:46 * Mike_H NP: Blondie - Rapture (US No. 1 in March 1981)
2008-03-19 07:54 < Lucifer_Cat> good morning angels!
2008-03-19 07:59 < Lucifer_Cat> Arthur C Clarke died :(
2008-03-19 08:06 < ThePolecat> Back
2008-03-19 08:07 < ThePolecat> I like some Blondie
2008-03-19 08:07 < ThePolecat> their approach to punk pop made a lot more sense than what the Ramones typically did
2008-03-19 08:09 * ThePolecat has no idea who Arthur C. Clarke is, I think I'm about to lose my internet license
2008-03-19 08:10 < ShakespeareFan00> Science fiction and sciene writer
2008-03-19 08:10 < ShakespeareFan00> Major works include 2001 A Space Oddessey
2008-03-19 08:10 < ThePolecat> Oh, fair enough.
2008-03-19 08:13 < ThePolecat> I think the intellectual significance of science fiction tends to be overrated on the internet.
2008-03-19 08:15 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: mostly, yeah
2008-03-19 08:15 < arcimboldo_> Don't let Scientology hear that!
2008-03-19 08:15 < Lucifer_Cat> but Arthur C Clarke was considered one of the best writers of this era - even outside the internet
2008-03-19 08:16 < ThePolecat> Scientology is fully non-fictional
2008-03-19 08:16 < ThePolecat> heh, so maybe Europe underrates him
2008-03-19 08:16 < ThePolecat> there's also bit of an excessive focus on English-language writers in the English speaking world.
2008-03-19 08:17 < ThePolecat> much more than elsewhere
2008-03-19 08:17 < Lucifer_Cat> i suppose
2008-03-19 08:17 < arcimboldo_> Stanislaw Lem may have had some intellectual qualities despite being a science fiction writer.
2008-03-19 08:18 < ThePolecat> I never said "science fiction is stupid and pretentious"
2008-03-19 08:18 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: u from poland?
2008-03-19 08:18 < ThePolecat> no
2008-03-19 08:18 < ThePolecat> Germany
2008-03-19 08:18 < Lucifer_Cat> sweden?
2008-03-19 08:18 < Lucifer_Cat> ah ok
2008-03-19 08:18 < arcimboldo_> ThePolecat is someone completely different ...
2008-03-19 08:19 < ThePolecat> I once saw a "100 best books ever written" list which had about 90% English-language books
2008-03-19 08:19 < Lucifer_Cat> what?
2008-03-19 08:19 < ThePolecat> I'm TheWeasel
2008-03-19 08:19 < Lucifer_Cat> haha yeah i have that collection
2008-03-19 08:19 < ThePolecat> but there's a lot of pressure to become cat-like
2008-03-19 08:19 < Lucifer_Cat> haha
2008-03-19 08:19 < ThePolecat> oh well.. anyway that just can't be, logically.
2008-03-19 08:19 < ThePolecat> they left out most of the great French, Italian, German and Russian novels
2008-03-19 08:20 < Lycurgus> Should it have been 100 best books in a Germanic Language?
2008-03-19 08:20 < Lycurgus> :)
2008-03-19 08:20 < arcimboldo_> ?
2008-03-19 08:20 < ThePolecat> 100 Best Books in English and Some Concessions To The Boring And Insignificant
2008-03-19 08:20 < ThePolecat> maybe
2008-03-19 08:21 < arcimboldo_> Was it an American or a UK list?
2008-03-19 08:21 < ThePolecat> American
2008-03-19 08:21 < Lycurgus> was Buddenbrooks on it?
2008-03-19 08:21 < ThePolecat> no
2008-03-19 08:21 < Lycurgus> or Proust?
2008-03-19 08:21 < arcimboldo_> Faust?
2008-03-19 08:21 < arcimboldo_> Tolstoi?
2008-03-19 08:22 < ThePolecat> Maybe Temps Perdu, somewhere down there
2008-03-19 08:22 < Lycurgus> tolstoy for sure
2008-03-19 08:22 < arcimboldo_> the Bible?
2008-03-19 08:22 < ThePolecat> of German literature only The Perfume, I think
2008-03-19 08:22 < Lycurgus> dostoevsky too
2008-03-19 08:22 < ThePolecat> and maybe some Kafka
2008-03-19 08:22 < arcimboldo_> well ...
2008-03-19 08:23 < ThePolecat> Yea, of French I think only Dumas
2008-03-19 08:23 < ThePolecat> (only because the movies are well known)
2008-03-19 08:23 < Lycurgus> known here as "dumbass"
2008-03-19 08:23 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 08:23 < ThePolecat> certainly not the strongest French novelist
2008-03-19 08:24 < arcimboldo_> http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-11959.html - it can't be that one
2008-03-19 08:24 < ThePolecat> no
2008-03-19 08:24 < Lucifer_Cat> no
2008-03-19 08:24 < ThePolecat> but even much on that list are very disputable
2008-03-19 08:24 < Lucifer_Cat> first few were LoTR, H2G2, and like
2008-03-19 08:24 < ThePolecat> *is
2008-03-19 08:25 < ThePolecat> (but then that would be true of any list)
2008-03-19 08:25 < arcimboldo_> http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/grtinfluential.html ...
2008-03-19 08:25 < arcimboldo_> the New Testament ranked no. 18?
2008-03-19 08:26 < ThePolecat> I wouldnt call the New Testament a book of its own
2008-03-19 08:26 < ThePolecat> this is chronological, btw
2008-03-19 08:26 < arcimboldo_> oh ...
2008-03-19 08:26 < ThePolecat> well, roughly
2008-03-19 08:27 < Lucifer_Cat> next step towards my book collection: collect the 100 best books (english/translated to)
2008-03-19 08:27 < Lucifer_Cat> and im pretty sure i'd have read like 25 of them already
2008-03-19 08:27 < ThePolecat> and the historians are limited to English
2008-03-19 08:27 < ThePolecat> ignoring people like Ranke, Mommsen etc.
2008-03-19 08:28 < arcimboldo_> it could be this one: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_best_books_ever_written
2008-03-19 08:28 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: whats chronological?
2008-03-19 08:28 < ThePolecat> the one arc posted second
2008-03-19 08:28 < ThePolecat> no, it was released by some bookstore as a result of a poll of critics
2008-03-19 08:28 < ThePolecat> I think
2008-03-19 08:28 < Lucifer_Cat> well maybe im just biased....
2008-03-19 08:29 < ThePolecat> arcimboldo_: Good example.
2008-03-19 08:29 < Lucifer_Cat> but im pretty sure that the Upanishads were written a while before the old testament
2008-03-19 08:29 < ThePolecat> whats 8 doing there, anyway?
2008-03-19 08:29 < Lucifer_Cat> they might have been rediscovered later on though
2008-03-19 08:29 < ThePolecat> and Lord of the Rings imho is pompous mumbo-jumbo
2008-03-19 08:29 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: thats what it gets points for :P
2008-03-19 08:30 < ThePolecat> nobody would have noticed if a Swiss author had written it.
2008-03-19 08:30 < ideogram> Lord of the Rings is our modern mythology
2008-03-19 08:30 * ThePolecat would include both Heinrich and Thomas Mann, Hermann Hesse and Goethe certainly
2008-03-19 08:30 < ideogram> that is what Tolkien intended and it is what he acheived
2008-03-19 08:30 < ideogram> I find it unreadable, but the I also find the Bible unreadable
2008-03-19 08:31 < ThePolecat> I like the Bible, especially the OT
2008-03-19 08:31 < ThePolecat> but it does get repetitive
2008-03-19 08:31 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: the problem there would be that a lot more people speak/read english than those that do other european languages
2008-03-19 08:31 < ThePolecat> There are excellent translations available
2008-03-19 08:31 < Lucifer_Cat> and translating the book, unless exceptionally done (Asterix eg) kills half the charm
2008-03-19 08:32 < ThePolecat> Hermann Hesse has been translated brilliantly, for one
2008-03-19 08:32 < ThePolecat> I agree it's harder with poetry
2008-03-19 08:32 < ideogram> there is a saying, translator == traitor
2008-03-19 08:32 < Lucifer_Cat> hah
2008-03-19 08:32 < Lucifer_Cat> ideogram: its hard. very hard.
2008-03-19 08:32 < ThePolecat> I'd say Baudelaire but I've never seen a good translation in any language
2008-03-19 08:32 < arcimboldo_> yeah ... "translated" Haiku are a pain in the neck
2008-03-19 08:32 < ThePolecat> and in German Klopstock
2008-03-19 08:33 < ThePolecat> or maybe Hölderlin
2008-03-19 08:33 < Lucifer_Cat> the english translators for asterix do some black magic i guess
2008-03-19 08:33 < ThePolecat> Donald Duck has been exceptionally well translated for decades here.
2008-03-19 08:33 < ThePolecat> there are loads of idioms that spring from those translations alone
2008-03-19 08:34 < Lucifer_Cat> nice
2008-03-19 08:35 < ThePolecat> and I do love the original 50s beat translations
2008-03-19 08:35 < ThePolecat> way difficult to do.
2008-03-19 08:35 < ThePolecat> (usually by Annemarie Böll, wife of Nobel laureate Heinrich Böll)
2008-03-19 08:35 < ThePolecat> whose charm has faded with the separation of the Germanies.
2008-03-19 08:35 < ThePolecat> so I wouldn't include him any more
2008-03-19 08:36 < ThePolecat> maybe "most influential" and "best" aren't the same either
2008-03-19 08:36 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: mind if i ask a retarded Q?
2008-03-19 08:36 < ThePolecat> go ahead
2008-03-19 08:37 < ThePolecat> and sorry for the monologue
2008-03-19 08:37 < Lucifer_Cat> from what perspective do they teach modern history in german schools?
2008-03-19 08:37 < ThePolecat> from a reductionist one.
2008-03-19 08:37 < Lucifer_Cat> as in the 20th century... where germanys rulers arguably caused both the wars
2008-03-19 08:37 < Lucifer_Cat> ok what does that mean
2008-03-19 08:37 < ThePolecat> reduced to Hitler
2008-03-19 08:38 < Lucifer_Cat> :s
2008-03-19 08:38 < ThePolecat> Everything is interpreted as it relates to Hitler
2008-03-19 08:38 < ThePolecat> it's the opposite of whitewashing
2008-03-19 08:38 < Lucifer_Cat> as in?
2008-03-19 08:39 < Lucifer_Cat> if you are okay with elaborating it that is
2008-03-19 08:39 < ThePolecat> well, Nazi times and the crimes committed then are pretty much the only subject taught
2008-03-19 08:39 < ThePolecat> and everything else just being a function of it as it were
2008-03-19 08:39 < Lucifer_Cat> oh ok
2008-03-19 08:39 < ThePolecat> course I am
2008-03-19 08:40 < ThePolecat> which is sad because all my education of postwar Germany I had to do on my own
2008-03-19 08:40 < ThePolecat> and most especially the history of the German Empire before 1914
2008-03-19 08:40 < ThePolecat> but yea
2008-03-19 08:41 < arcimboldo_> the "good old times"
2008-03-19 08:41 < ThePolecat> when you leave school, your senses are pretty blunted
2008-03-19 08:41 < ThePolecat> yea
2008-03-19 08:41 < ideogram> history is written by the victors
2008-03-19 08:41 < ThePolecat> I don't believe in that nowadays
2008-03-19 08:41 < ideogram> I do
2008-03-19 08:41 < ThePolecat> too many documents from both sides survive wars.
2008-03-19 08:41 < ideogram> some documents get read, others get buried
2008-03-19 08:41 < ThePolecat> the grand narratives don't work (at least not in open societies)
2008-03-19 08:42 < ThePolecat> or they only work for those who don't want to see complexity
2008-03-19 08:42 < ideogram> it's better than it was, but don't think it's over
2008-03-19 08:42 < ThePolecat> but the chance is there
2008-03-19 08:42 < ideogram> most people don't want to see complexity
2008-03-19 08:42 < ThePolecat> True
2008-03-19 08:42 < ThePolecat> that's their fault I guess
2008-03-19 08:42 < ideogram> anyone who playes poker knows how many fish there are
2008-03-19 08:42 < Lucifer_Cat> thanks to the net, WP and the rest, we can get both sides if we want to
2008-03-19 08:42 < ideogram> and you can get a lot done by appealing to the fish
2008-03-19 08:42 < ThePolecat> plus, there's a great unwillingness to split hairs in that field.
2008-03-19 08:43 < ThePolecat> "it wasn't six millions, it was 5.9 millions" just sounds awful
2008-03-19 08:43 < ideogram> "it wasn't pure evil, it was relative evil"
2008-03-19 08:43 < ThePolecat> but besides that
2008-03-19 08:43 < Lucifer_Cat> In India, we get taught VERY little about the Holocaust and other crimes... also very very little about the time before WW1
2008-03-19 08:44 < Lucifer_Cat> being 'that weird kid who actually LIKES history' i taught myself a lot
2008-03-19 08:44 < arcimboldo_> not too many kids like history.
2008-03-19 08:44 < arcimboldo_> I didn't like it either ...
2008-03-19 08:44 < Lucifer_Cat> and was totally taken by surprise when i read bout the holocaust
2008-03-19 08:44 < ideogram> not too many good history teachers
2008-03-19 08:45 < ThePolecat> yea, so was the dude in Delhi who opened a restaurant with Hitler deco
2008-03-19 08:45 < ThePolecat> because he thought "he was just a powerful historical figure"
2008-03-19 08:45 < Lucifer_Cat> and the first time i saw it on mainstream tv was some months later on Discovery/ News on Auschwitz anniversary
2008-03-19 08:45 < ThePolecat> February 2005...
2008-03-19 08:45 < arcimboldo_> Anyhow, the way it was taught in school was more of an account of scores of uninteresting battles of uninteresting states of the 17th centuries.
2008-03-19 08:45 < Lucifer_Cat> ThePolecat: EXACTLY. i admired Hitler as a kid too
2008-03-19 08:45 < ThePolecat> heh yea
2008-03-19 08:45 < ideogram> history is a story. Every culture has its own story.
2008-03-19 08:45 < Lucifer_Cat> then i realized he was such a despicable prick
2008-03-19 08:46 < ShakespeareFan00> Erm...
2008-03-19 08:46 < ThePolecat> how were you supposed to know
2008-03-19 08:46 < ShakespeareFan00> That's putting it mildly
2008-03-19 08:46 < ideogram> hm
2008-03-19 08:46 < Lucifer_Cat> well but then i admired every dictator from Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Tito
2008-03-19 08:46 < ThePolecat> there's great appeal emanating from power for its own sake.
2008-03-19 08:46 < ideogram> we aren't seeing a lot of complexity here.
2008-03-19 08:46 < ThePolecat> and "power that is better than chattering"
2008-03-19 08:46 < Lucifer_Cat> my dad had a hard time explaining to me that Communists and Stalin werent exactly nice ppl
2008-03-19 08:47 < ShakespeareFan00> Lenin is more complex as he wasn't seeking the same sort of dictatorship
2008-03-19 08:47 < ThePolecat> but was happy to take it.
2008-03-19 08:47 < ShakespeareFan00> Stalin wanted a cult of personality...
2008-03-19 08:47 < ThePolecat> First in the form of war powers until about 1921, then "because it worked"
2008-03-19 08:47 < ThePolecat> cult of personality is never an end in itself
2008-03-19 08:47 < Lucifer_Cat> ShakespeareFan00: he did. i learnt that later on.
2008-03-19 08:47 < ShakespeareFan00> which has 'poisoned' communist thinking ever since
2008-03-19 08:47 < ThePolecat> it's always a means to stay
2008-03-19 08:48 < ideogram> If you're going to save the world, you have to look out for yourself first.
2008-03-19 08:48 < ThePolecat> oh, Leninism was flawed from the beginning
2008-03-19 08:48 < Ceiling_Cat> any latin speakers handy?
2008-03-19 08:48 < Lucifer_Cat> somehow in indian history textbooks, most of the mass killings are not mentioned except for a couple of tyranny induced famines in bengal
2008-03-19 08:48 < arcimboldo_> not quite speakers ...
2008-03-19 08:48 < ThePolecat> Absunt.
2008-03-19 08:48 < ideogram> Because if you let someone else have power, god knows they won't be able to save the world like you can.
2008-03-19 08:48 < Ceiling_Cat> I have 2 latin-related questions
2008-03-19 08:49 < Ceiling_Cat> (1) Am I correct that 'tectum
2008-03-19 08:49 < Ceiling_Cat> tectum is latin for 'ceiling'
2008-03-19 08:49 < Ceiling_Cat> and (2) Assuming that 1 is true, that tectic is the proper adjectival form.
2008-03-19 08:49 < ThePolecat> yea, roof
2008-03-19 08:49 < ThePolecat> that's an English question
2008-03-19 08:49 < Magnifier> If you want to set that up for yourself, just ask, and I'll tell you how to do it. ... but if you want to test a man's character, give him power
2008-03-19 08:49 < ThePolecat> tectonic?
2008-03-19 08:49 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 08:50 < ideogram> Give me power and I'll give it to someone else.
2008-03-19 08:50 < ideogram> Make sure that's what you want before you try.
2008-03-19 08:50 < arcimboldo_> Tectum est pars superioris aedificiorum, quae a pluvia, nive etc aedes protegit.
2008-03-19 08:50 < ThePolecat> Yay!
2008-03-19 08:50 < Ceiling_Cat> so what is the proper adjectival form?
2008-03-19 08:50 < ThePolecat> "roofly"?
2008-03-19 08:50 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 08:51 < Ceiling_Cat> I think it's tectic
2008-03-19 08:51 < Ceiling_Cat> but I'd like confirmation
2008-03-19 08:51 < arcimboldo_> tectalis or so?
2008-03-19 08:52 < ThePolecat> tectal sounds good.
2008-03-19 08:52 < Ceiling_Cat> DING
2008-03-19 08:52 < Ceiling_Cat> that's it
2008-03-19 08:52 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tectal
2008-03-19 08:52 < Lucifer_Cat> stop being a HighBrow_Cat Ceiling_Cat
2008-03-19 08:52 * ThePolecat has a tectal-mectal
2008-03-19 08:53 * Ceiling_Cat is your tectal God
2008-03-19 08:53 < arcimboldo_> Feles tectalis?
2008-03-19 08:53 < ThePolecat> (ps: "Techtelmechtel" means flirt in German)
2008-03-19 08:53 * Ceiling_Cat lulz
2008-03-19 08:53 < Ceiling_Cat> I like that
2008-03-19 08:53 < ThePolecat> both tactile and tectal
2008-03-19 08:53 < Ceiling_Cat> Felis tectalis familiaris
2008-03-19 08:53 < ThePolecat> Dachkatze?
2008-03-19 08:53 < ThePolecat> Oh
2008-03-19 08:53 < ThePolecat> I get it
2008-03-19 08:54 < ThePolecat> var. deificata
2008-03-19 08:54 < Ceiling_Cat> or perhaps felis tectalis amicus
2008-03-19 08:54 < ThePolecat> GOD - DEIFIED DOG
2008-03-19 08:56 < ThePolecat> Felix feliciarum, qui ex caelis venisti
2008-03-19 08:57 * ThePolecat 's Latin sucks big time
2008-03-19 08:57 < arcimboldo_> cuncta stricte discussurus
2008-03-19 08:58 < ThePolecat> Fellat magna tempore.
2008-03-19 08:58 < ThePolecat> fellatio = suckage
2008-03-19 08:59 < arcimboldo_> et resurrexit tertia die
2008-03-19 09:02 < Ceiling_Cat> this channel needs more lulz
2008-03-19 09:02 < Ceiling_Cat> MOAR LULZ even
2008-03-19 09:02 < ThePolecat> semper ut regnet lol-feles mundi.
2008-03-19 09:03 < ThePolecat> :-)
2008-03-19 09:03 < ideogram> lol makes no sense in latin
2008-03-19 09:03 < Lucifer_Cat> what would be a cool 6 letter word for vanity plates
2008-03-19 09:03 < ThePolecat> feles variationis lol
2008-03-19 09:03 * Ceiling_Cat snickers
2008-03-19 09:04 < Ceiling_Cat> no no
2008-03-19 09:04 < Ceiling_Cat> felis internetus lolicus
2008-03-19 09:04 < ThePolecat> SEMPER TE MASTURBARE VIDET.
2008-03-19 09:05 < Ceiling_Cat> is wikia down?
2008-03-19 09:05 < Lucifer_Cat> cya later, vibrator
2008-03-19 09:05 * Lucifer_Cat is out
2008-03-19 09:06 * Ceiling_Cat huggles felis diabolis wikipediacus
2008-03-19 09:06 < ThePolecat> sed feles iuvenem non tamen caedet
2008-03-19 09:07 < Magnifier> OMG is this Latina Wikipedia Irc ?
2008-03-19 09:07 < ThePolecat> *caedit
2008-03-19 09:07 < Magnifier> :)
2008-03-19 09:07 < arcimboldo_> ita est
2008-03-19 09:08 < arcimboldo_> magnifier linguae latinae conversationem facere non potest?
2008-03-19 09:09 < ThePolecat> translatio non offertur
2008-03-19 09:09 < ThePolecat> :-D
2008-03-19 09:09 < arcimboldo_> non respondit
2008-03-19 09:10 < Ceiling_Cat> on snap
2008-03-19 09:10 < ThePolecat> this channel just moved back 500 years.
2008-03-19 09:10 < Ceiling_Cat> belgium didn't disintigrate
2008-03-19 09:10 < Ceiling_Cat> This is an outrage!
2008-03-19 09:10 * Ceiling_Cat demands another country in europe!
2008-03-19 09:10 < Magnifier> :/ Latin ! I know only one (Caesar's quotation:Alea iacta est)
2008-03-19 09:10 < arcimboldo_> [[Hesse]] is taking over from Belgium ...
2008-03-19 09:10 < Magnifier> Roma Roma Roma
2008-03-19 09:10 * Ceiling_Cat slices france into 17 pieces
2008-03-19 09:11 * ThePolecat makes a Beatles cover for the Vatican market called Nullum Responsum
2008-03-19 09:11 < ThePolecat> yea, next up is [[Appenzell]]
2008-03-19 09:12 < ThePolecat> Uppenzell
2008-03-19 09:12 < Magnifier> PoleCat
2008-03-19 09:13 < Magnifier> are you a member of Latin Wikipedia ?
2008-03-19 09:13 < ThePolecat> not at all
2008-03-19 09:13 < ThePolecat> I took Latin for all of two years
2008-03-19 09:13 < ThePolecat> most of the above was hobbled together, not to mention wrong
2008-03-19 09:14 < Magnifier> I don't know a latin word
2008-03-19 09:14 < ThePolecat> of course you do
2008-03-19 09:15 < Magnifier> But often visit to latin Wikipedia because of researching Roman Empire history :)
2008-03-19 09:15 < ThePolecat> English has loads of them
2008-03-19 09:15 * arcimboldo_ had Latin as a major in high school but forgot almost all of it
2008-03-19 09:15 < arcimboldo_> since then
2008-03-19 09:15 * ThePolecat 's "major" subjects were German and English
2008-03-19 09:16 < Magnifier> latin is beautiful but too hard to learn :D
2008-03-19 09:16 < ThePolecat> I had to discontinue Latin in Grade 10
2008-03-19 09:16 < ThePolecat> easier than most living languages
2008-03-19 09:16 < arcimboldo_> if you've got an affinity to maths then it is less hard ...
2008-03-19 09:16 < ThePolecat> if you adapt to the slightly erratic word order
2008-03-19 09:16 < Magnifier> My teacher
2008-03-19 09:17 < Magnifier> told that Latin is easy for one who know English
2008-03-19 09:17 < arcimboldo_> Japanese is slightly more difficult for us to learn - don't complain about Latin
2008-03-19 09:17 < ThePolecat> Latin is easy for one who knows German I guess
2008-03-19 09:17 < ThePolecat> or Slavic languages
2008-03-19 09:17 < arcimboldo_> well ... you'd be better off knowing Spanish
2008-03-19 09:17 < cimon> German and Latin are pretty remote.
2008-03-19 09:17 < Magnifier> i didn't complain
2008-03-19 09:18 < ThePolecat> because they have a pronounced case system familiarity with which will come in handy
2008-03-19 09:18 < Magnifier> yeah
2008-03-19 09:18 < ThePolecat> that isn't as pronounced in Spanish or French
2008-03-19 09:18 < arcimboldo_> era eras era erámos eráis eran
2008-03-19 09:18 < arcimboldo_> eram eras erat eramus eratis erant
2008-03-19 09:18 < cimon> i suppose the grammar between german and latin is somewhat similar...
2008-03-19 09:18 < cimon> I was thinking vocabulary wise...
2008-03-19 09:19 < ideogram> German and Latin have case systems, which we really don't have in English
2008-03-19 09:19 < ThePolecat> oh, vocabulary is the least of your problems, with one exception
2008-03-19 09:19 < ThePolecat> Latin has an insanely complex system of prepositions and conjunctions
2008-03-19 09:19 < ThePolecat> again, I think the closest you can come to Latin in that respect is in German
2008-03-19 09:21 < ThePolecat> though French sometimes comes close
2008-03-19 09:21 < ThePolecat> but not on that scale
2008-03-19 09:25 < ThePolecat> Adverbs, rather
2008-03-19 09:25 < bumm13> hiya Mark_Ryan
2008-03-19 09:26 * Ceiling_Cat facehuggles Mark_Ryan
2008-03-19 09:26 < Mark_Ryan> hi there
2008-03-19 09:26 < Mark_Ryan> how art thou all
2008-03-19 09:27 < ThePolecat> "are ye"
2008-03-19 09:27 < bumm13> good :)
2008-03-19 09:27 < ThePolecat> see, English doesn't even have proper conjugation any more!
2008-03-19 09:28 < arcimboldo_> it were even better hath English a proper conjunctive
2008-03-19 09:28 < ThePolecat> heh
2008-03-19 09:28 < ThePolecat> hath is present
2008-03-19 09:28 < ThePolecat> 'twere indeed though
2008-03-19 09:28 < arcimboldo_> I bow down in embarrassment
2008-03-19 09:29 < ThePolecat> would twere so.
2008-03-19 09:31 < ThePolecat> My good lords, I shall be back anon.
2008-03-19 09:32 * ThePolecat makes haste
2008-03-19 09:32 < Magnifier> arcimboldo
2008-03-19 09:32 < arcimboldo_> Magnifier
2008-03-19 09:34 * ThePolecat redit
2008-03-19 09:35 < bumm13> eww
2008-03-19 09:36 * bumm13 NP: Iron Maiden - Children of the Damned (1982)
2008-03-19 09:36 < ThePolecat> Virgo ferrea!
2008-03-19 09:38 < ThePolecat> Pueri condemnatorum
2008-03-19 09:38 * ThePolecat watches someone overlook a mate in one for the third time
2008-03-19 09:40 < ThePolecat> *Dylan - Moonshiner (1963)
2008-03-19 09:40 < ThePolecat> haunting song
2008-03-19 09:41 < Magnifier> *Elton John - Can you fell the love tonight (unknow year)
2008-03-19 09:41 < Mark_Ryan> that was the lion king
2008-03-19 09:41 < Mark_Ryan> so 1994 i think
2008-03-19 09:42 < Magnifier> remind my childhood :)
2008-03-19 09:42 < arcimboldo_> fell the love?
2008-03-19 09:42 < ThePolecat> Magnifier: 1994.
2008-03-19 09:42 < ThePolecat> (I believe)
2008-03-19 09:42 < ThePolecat> it's from the Lion King soundtrack, ay?
2008-03-19 09:42 < Magnifier> yes
2008-03-19 09:43 < ThePolecat> heh, there
2008-03-19 09:43 < ThePolecat> arcimboldo_: chopchop
2008-03-19 09:44 < zvook> the whole world's a bottle and life is but a dram
2008-03-19 09:44 < ThePolecat> Sorry for the redundant redundancy, I didn't realize Mark said the exact same thing
2008-03-19 09:44 < Mark_Ryan> you plagiarised my ideas!
2008-03-19 09:44 * Mark_Ryan sulks
2008-03-19 09:44 < Magnifier> :P
2008-03-19 09:45 < Magnifier> Mark Ryan reminded me Blnguyen
2008-03-19 09:46 < ThePolecat> Tis a dale dealt by an iditarod, full of mounts and tourists, dignifying roughing.
2008-03-19 09:47 < ThePolecat> To borrow, and to borrow and to borrow...
2008-03-19 09:47 < ThePolecat> sleep with this, getting hazed from bay to bay.
2008-03-19 09:48 * Ceiling_Cat collects Mark_Ryan's delicious tears
2008-03-19 09:49 < The359> damn, there's a lot of people who seem to have trouble figuring out that Sri Lanka is in a different time zone than most of the English-speaking world
2008-03-19 09:49 * ThePolecat always thought Sri Lanka was part of the English-speaking world
2008-03-19 09:49 * ThePolecat listens to Moonshiner for the seventh time over
2008-03-19 09:49 * The359 said most of the English-speaking world
2008-03-19 09:50 < Magnifier> ThePolecat
2008-03-19 09:50 < ThePolecat> Hey.
2008-03-19 09:50 < Magnifier> can I sak you a question ?
2008-03-19 09:50 < ThePolecat> You can.
2008-03-19 09:50 < mexicanbanana> Is there a service or a FOSS project or something that allows me to poll a remote, central server and ask it if an IP address belongs to a known open proxy? This would be very valuable as I then could lock out all the trolls that post junk.
2008-03-19 09:50 < Magnifier> have you ever face a long-term vandalism?
2008-03-19 09:51 < ThePolecat> Me?
2008-03-19 09:51 < ShakespeareFan00> mexicanbanana: Have you tried spamhuas?
2008-03-19 09:51 < Magnifier> yes
2008-03-19 09:51 < Magnifier> take a look
2008-03-19 09:51 < Magnifier> http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%E1%BB%83_lo%E1%BA%A1i:T%C3%A0i_kho%E1%BA%A3n_con_r%E1%BB%91i_c%E1%BB%A7a_Ph%C3%BAc_Du
2008-03-19 09:51 < ThePolecat> It's hard to vandalize me.
2008-03-19 09:51 < ThePolecat> oh
2008-03-19 09:51 < Magnifier> vandal Wikipedia :)
2008-03-19 09:51 < Magnifier> we block 81++
2008-03-19 09:51 < ThePolecat> I don't speak Vietnamese
2008-03-19 09:51 < ThePolecat> :-)
2008-03-19 09:52 < Magnifier> not
2008-03-19 09:52 < Magnifier> just ask for advice
2008-03-19 09:52 < mexicanbanana> ShakespeareFan00: That seems to cost money.
2008-03-19 09:52 < ThePolecat> I can't spot the vandalism here
2008-03-19 09:53 < ShakespeareFan00> Unfortunatly that's the way it is
2008-03-19 09:53 < ThePolecat> Brb
2008-03-19 09:53 < ShakespeareFan00> Until the US starts to take spam seriously
2008-03-19 09:53 < Magnifier> yes
2008-03-19 09:53 < Magnifier> thx you
2008-03-19 09:53 < mexicanbanana> Grrrrr...
2008-03-19 09:55 < ThePolecat> Two bees or not two bees, that is the Christian/whether there's poplar in the mine...
2008-03-19 09:55 < ShakespeareFan00> In the meantime you can lobby for tougher anti-spam laws, and ones which make ISP's legally liable for the spams thier customers send
2008-03-19 09:55 < ShakespeareFan00> It's RIDICULOUS the way some ISP's claim 'common carrier' blah blah I'm not listening to spam complaints...
2008-03-19 09:55 < ThePolecat> no ISP involvement in internet traffic except on request.
2008-03-19 09:55 < ShakespeareFan00> ThePolecat; Which is Niave in the extreme
2008-03-19 09:56 < ThePolecat> no, it's the way it must be.
2008-03-19 09:56 < ShakespeareFan00> Of course ISP's shouldn't be liable until you report spam...
2008-03-19 09:56 < ShakespeareFan00> but once it's reported then they MUST be accountable
2008-03-19 09:56 < ThePolecat> nobody except police must ever be bothered with the way I use my civil liberties
2008-03-19 09:56 < ThePolecat> There
2008-03-19 09:57 < Pilotguy> ShakespeareFan00- ISPs don't give a shit about you
2008-03-19 09:57 < ThePolecat> And damn right they shouldn't.
2008-03-19 09:57 < ShakespeareFan00> They should
2008-03-19 09:57 < Pilotguy> ShakespeareFan00- All they want from you is your monthly bill
2008-03-19 09:57 < Pilotguy> ShakespeareFan00- hah!
2008-03-19 09:57 < ShakespeareFan00> Pilotguy: ROFL
2008-03-19 09:57 < Pilotguy> ShakespeareFan00- Good luck with that
2008-03-19 09:57 < ShakespeareFan00> In any case ISP's should care about spam, because it's a bandwidth issue
2008-03-19 09:58 < ThePolecat> but that's an economic issue they ignore to their own detriment.
2008-03-19 09:58 < ThePolecat> (of course they'll lose customers if they do too much peeping, so there's a flipside to it)
2008-03-19 09:58 < ShakespeareFan00> Well at least the UK has taken some sensible steps in respect of some of the obscene spam...
2008-03-19 09:58 < ThePolecat> but not pre-emptively
2008-03-19 09:58 < ShakespeareFan00> In that I think it get's dropped...
2008-03-19 09:58 < ThePolecat> that would be completely undue.
2008-03-19 09:59 < ShakespeareFan00> Without the spammers even kowing it has been :)
2008-03-19 09:59 < mavhc> the solution to spam is simple, kill anyone who replies to it
2008-03-19 09:59 < ThePolecat> there should be no private censorship on the internet
2008-03-19 09:59 < ShakespeareFan00> No... :)
2008-03-19 09:59 < ThePolecat> except by people who run venues
2008-03-19 09:59 < mavhc> added side benefits: average IQ goes up 8 points
2008-03-19 09:59 < ShakespeareFan00> There should be agreed community standards which are enforcable by laws
2008-03-19 09:59 < ThePolecat> no
2008-03-19 09:59 < ThePolecat> enforcable by community rules.
2008-03-19 10:00 < mavhc> do you get to choose which community you're in?
2008-03-19 10:00 < ShakespeareFan00> Community rules need teeth
2008-03-19 10:00 < ShakespeareFan00> :)
2008-03-19 10:00 < ThePolecat> they do, but only where it's absolutely necessry.
2008-03-19 10:00 < ThePolecat> which is less that 1%
2008-03-19 10:00 < ThePolecat> *than
2008-03-19 10:00 < Lycurgus> oh more than 8 I should think. Spam doesn't seriously affect an already overbuilt telecomm infrostructure as far as bandwidth is concerned.
2008-03-19 10:01 < Lycurgus> *infra
2008-03-19 10:01 < ShakespeareFan00> Lycurgus: It's a shame that ISP's aren't held responsible for cleaning up the mess
2008-03-19 10:01 < ShakespeareFan00> Google Groups used to usable
2008-03-19 10:01 < ThePolecat> mess is cleaned up by people who produce it
2008-03-19 10:01 < ShakespeareFan00> Thanks to Google's refusal to clean out the spam it's being rendered un-usable
2008-03-19 10:01 < Lycurgus> yes, if ISPs were held responsible it would stop.
2008-03-19 10:02 < ShakespeareFan00> and people will migrate to closed systems
2008-03-19 10:02 < mavhc> there's spam in google? not noticed
2008-03-19 10:02 < ThePolecat> Well
2008-03-19 10:02 < ThePolecat> capitalism
2008-03-19 10:02 < ThePolecat> Google will get used to it
2008-03-19 10:02 < Lycurgus> filters work pretty well in my experience.
2008-03-19 10:02 < ShakespeareFan00> mavhc; There is... Usally for cheap knock off watches, trainers and bags etc...
2008-03-19 10:02 < mavhc> is that spam?
2008-03-19 10:02 < ShakespeareFan00> Google doesn't yet have filters
2008-03-19 10:02 < Lycurgus> of course it does
2008-03-19 10:03 < ThePolecat> But that's something between Google and the spammers
2008-03-19 10:03 < mavhc> google has a bazillion filters (approx)
2008-03-19 10:03 < ShakespeareFan00> mavhc; on a group nominally for Uk railways YES
2008-03-19 10:03 < mavhc> oh, google groups
2008-03-19 10:03 < ThePolecat> If Google tolerates that, that is entirely up to them.
2008-03-19 10:03 < mavhc> be more specific
2008-03-19 10:03 < mavhc> turn on moderation
2008-03-19 10:03 < ThePolecat> they'll lose customers that way, their bad.
2008-03-19 10:03 < ShakespeareFan00> Much of the spam appears to be Google orignated ...
2008-03-19 10:03 < Lycurgus> newgroups are user moderated
2008-03-19 10:03 < ThePolecat> can't use the law to get someone to irrelevancy
2008-03-19 10:03 < Lycurgus> it's not googles responsiblity
2008-03-19 10:04 < ThePolecat> *save someone from
2008-03-19 10:04 < ShakespeareFan00> Yes, and when I complain to Google, (user moderation) they don't het of thier asses and bloddy do something about it <angry>
2008-03-19 10:04 < ThePolecat> to a degree it is, but in the case of spam, if they don't remove it it's their bad and no-one else's
2008-03-19 10:04 < ThePolecat> I guess