freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-16 09:13 < TheWeasel> i.e. either "l'etat c'est moi"-y ideology or mob rule
2008-03-16 09:13 < TheWeasel> the latter being "common sense"
2008-03-16 09:13 < TheWeasel> ya
2008-03-16 09:13 < TheWeasel> brb!
2008-03-16 09:14 < zocky> "common sense" and "rational thought" are two distinct parts of the brain
2008-03-16 09:14 < arcimboldo_> I believe in the concept of common sense ...
2008-03-16 09:14 < cimon> we are all equally guilty, so every tiem we condemn soembody else we are out of our moths comdemning ourselves tooo
2008-03-16 09:14 < zocky> "common sense" tells you what the most likely correct action is without thinking
2008-03-16 09:14 < arcimboldo_> as opposed to bureacratism ...
2008-03-16 09:14 < arcimboldo_> +u
2008-03-16 09:14 < arcimboldo_> or wanting a rule for everything.
2008-03-16 09:15 < zocky> "rational thought" allows you to think about stuff, and either rationalize the decision you made by common sense, or realize that that decision is wrong and act differently
2008-03-16 09:16 < zocky> the problem is that plenty people think that common sense is always right
2008-03-16 09:16 < cimon> one problem with my personal approach, which is to walk away, is it encouarges them
2008-03-16 09:16 < zocky> so you should immediately do what feels right
2008-03-16 09:17 < arcimboldo_> ok, time to go to sleep ...
2008-03-16 09:18 < cimon> I sort of think one approach would be to be totally arbitrary, one day let them do most things with impunity, thus taking the sting out of deliberate attempts to create drama, and on totally random days coming down like a ton of bricks on the most trivial offence, thus raising a certain atmosphere of terror...
2008-03-16 09:19 < zocky> the only rule I want on wikipedia is formal polling to break deadlocks
2008-03-16 09:19 < zocky> "voting is evil" is stupid
2008-03-16 09:19 < cimon> I know that would be most unfair, or rather, fully aleatory, but it might be effective
2008-03-16 09:19 < zocky> there are plenty of occasions where we just need to decide something and be done with it for a while
2008-03-16 09:20 < zocky> but because there's no real way to decide anything, and we claim that consensus can be calculated from discussion, we spend most of the time arguing about what the discussion means
2008-03-16 09:20 < cimon> One glimmer of sunshine is that as long as Jimbo is the force behind AC, there won't be any big cases that are strictly a challenge against the arbcom itself...
2008-03-16 09:21 < zocky> at least the arbcom votes on stuff, and doesn't pretend that they are making decisions by consensus
2008-03-16 09:21 < cimon> I shudder to think how hard the community might turn on the arbcom, if Jimbo wasn't there, riding shotgun.
2008-03-16 09:21 < TheWeasel> cimon: That's the concept in Confucianism
2008-03-16 09:22 < yao_ziyuan> let's play a game: who can seduce me to stumble upon an english word that i learned before but can't recall now?
2008-03-16 09:22 < TheWeasel> "make rules that always work either way"
2008-03-16 09:22 < cimon> TheWeasel, yes, I had occasion to use that concept just 3 hours ago...
2008-03-16 09:22 < TheWeasel> thereby being able to punish people both for following and not following them
2008-03-16 09:23 < cimon> a win-win position...
2008-03-16 09:23 < TheWeasel> It worked for them as well.
2008-03-16 09:23 < zocky> TheWeasel, that's a good one :)
2008-03-16 09:23 < zocky> like "beat your wife every saturday. if you don't know why, she does"
2008-03-16 09:23 < TheWeasel> Is there an English word for "Rechtsstaat"?
2008-03-16 09:24 < cimon> In Finnish I call it the whipsaw prinsiple.
2008-03-16 09:24 < TheWeasel> "rule of law" maybe
2008-03-16 09:24 < TheWeasel> but thats only half of it
2008-03-16 09:24 < zocky> "rule of law", yes
2008-03-16 09:24 < cimon> get them coming and going
2008-03-16 09:24 < zocky> TheWeasel, yeah, it's more like "state ruled by law"
2008-03-16 09:24 < TheWeasel> Well, it's more like "make the norm difficult to understand and follow, but announce heavy penalties for break"
2008-03-16 09:24 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-03-16 09:25 < cimon> it is a poor saw that only bites wood on the pull
2008-03-16 09:25 < TheWeasel> like cities (illegally) using traffic traps to earn money
2008-03-16 09:27 < zocky> TheWeasel, I once saw slovenian policemen put a speed trap at a toll barrier, where they have extra-cautious speed limits, so you have to brake to 40 km/h 400 meters before you have to stop.
2008-03-16 09:27 < zocky> *everybody* drives 80-100 there
2008-03-16 09:27 < zocky> if they didn't, the road would be unusable
2008-03-16 09:27 < cimon> Heh, there were cops somewhere in finland where they told people when asked if it was possible to park on certain spots, that yes, it is possoble. And when the police came to fine them for illegal parking, people would ask why did you say it was possible to park here then. The police replied. It is possible, and this is how much it costs.
2008-03-16 09:27 < TheWeasel> yea, I know spots like that here
2008-03-16 09:27 < zocky> cimon, heh
2008-03-16 09:28 < bumm13> bunch of assholes :P
2008-03-16 09:28 < TheWeasel> "possibility" as a physical and legal concept...
2008-03-16 09:28 < Lady_Aleena> Hello...is it possible to find someone to proofread a rough draft of an article in my user space and give me pointers on how to improve it before I put it into article space? It is a television related article, so liking that media would be helpful. Anyone willing to give it a go?
2008-03-16 09:28 < zocky> Mike_H, around?
2008-03-16 09:29 < TheWeasel> how long is it?
2008-03-16 09:29 < Lady_Aleena> I have asked for help from WikiProject Television, but so far no takers.
2008-03-16 09:29 < Lady_Aleena> TheWeasel: Not too awfully long.
2008-03-16 09:29 < TheWeasel> TV is not my speciality, but I'm underworked :-)
2008-03-16 09:30 < Lady_Aleena> To get from the top of the article to the bottom is about three page down dscrolls.
2008-03-16 09:30 < Lady_Aleena> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lady_Aleena/Television/Crossovers
2008-03-16 09:30 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-03-16 09:31 < Lady_Aleena> I know that it does need a lot of work still, that is why it is still in my user space. I need more references.
2008-03-16 09:31 < TheWeasel> it seems sort of a list in disguise
2008-03-16 09:32 < TheWeasel> it's not an easy read in blocks of text
2008-03-16 09:32 < TheWeasel> you might want to consider making it a list or fleshing it out with more prose
2008-03-16 09:34 < Lady_Aleena> It started as a list, but to expand and explain the crossovers I saw that full sentences were forming. So I took those sentences and made paragraphs, and the list stopped being a list and became an article, I thought.
2008-03-16 09:34 < TheWeasel> it still feels very much like an enumeration
2008-03-16 09:35 < cimon> "Yet a third method, cited by Dr. David Christianus at the University of Giessen during the 18th century, was to take an egg laid by a black hen, poke a tiny hole through the shell, replace a bean-sized portion of the white with human semen, seal the opening with virgin parchment, and bury the egg in dung on the first day of the March lunar cycle. A miniature humanoid would emerge from the egg after thirty days, which would help and protect its cr
2008-03-16 09:35 < cimon> eator in return for a steady diet of lavender seeds and earthworms."
2008-03-16 09:35 < zocky> Lady_Aleena, for my taste, I'd shorten the enumerating text, probably concentrate on fewer examples and leave out the rest, AND then present the information that needs enumerating in a table
2008-03-16 09:36 < cimon> Yuck!
2008-03-16 09:36 * White_Cat pulls cimon out of the yucky stuff
2008-03-16 09:36 < zocky> Lady_Aleena, body text for general stuff + list for list stuff
2008-03-16 09:38 < Lady_Aleena> The point of the article is to show every series which is part of the shared reality, when finished links to it can be added to the series in the article as a See also.
2008-03-16 09:38 * zocky sticks needles into an effigy of cimon's homunculus
2008-03-16 09:38 < TheWeasel> here, the structure of the sentences gets quite repetitive
2008-03-16 09:39 < TheWeasel> and it's like an extreme shortening of a Dostoyevsky novel, people forget who is who after ten lines.
2008-03-16 09:41 < Lady_Aleena> I wish I had a co-writer to help with this. I asked at the WikiProject that would be good for this, but got almost nothing. Where else should I go to possibly get a co-writer? I would really like to see this as at least a B class article.
2008-03-16 09:41 * TheWeasel finds games of a friend of his in his chess software's database
2008-03-16 09:43 < Lady_Aleena> Please show me an example of an expansion.
2008-03-16 09:43 < Lady_Aleena> If you can that is.
2008-03-16 09:43 < zocky> Lady_Aleena, what did the list look like?
2008-03-16 09:44 < zocky> found it
2008-03-16 09:44 < TheWeasel> do we have a Good List category?
2008-03-16 09:44 < Lady_Aleena> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lady_Aleena/Television/Crossovers&oldid=196763336
2008-03-16 09:44 < Lady_Aleena> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lady_Aleena/Television/Crossovers&oldid=196771252 is a little better.
2008-03-16 09:45 < Lady_Aleena> There are lists, and then featured lists...that's about it.
2008-03-16 09:46 < TheWeasel> that's a bit bleak, I think with some formatting the prose could well find a place in a list
2008-03-16 09:46 < zocky> Lady_Aleena, that list is actually fine for its purpose. the article doesn't need to contain all that information, because the list already does. it would be better for the articles if you could find sources that discuss the phenomenon.
2008-03-16 09:46 < TheWeasel> it's just that the information in the article is delivered too densely
2008-03-16 09:46 < zocky> *article
2008-03-16 09:46 < TheWeasel> that too.
2008-03-16 09:47 < Lady_Aleena> Would the two of you be willing to help me with this? I don't know where else to turn.
2008-03-16 09:49 < Lady_Aleena> I never knew that density could be a problem.
2008-03-16 09:51 < Lady_Aleena> zocky, most sources are just people's blogs. Poobala.com is the only source I found with some notability since it has been mentioned in several publications and the author of the site has been interviewed on at least one occassion on the radio.
2008-03-16 09:51 * TheWeasel wonders about the ethical implications of opening Easter gifts ahead of time, sorry for the break
2008-03-16 09:51 < zocky> Lady_Aleena i'm trawing google, no luck so far
2008-03-16 09:51 < zocky> *trawling
2008-03-16 09:52 < Lady_Aleena> What are your search terms?
2008-03-16 09:54 < zocky> i started with i love lucy crossovers
2008-03-16 09:54 < zocky> but
2008-03-16 09:54 < zocky> Results 1 - 10 of about 502 for "i love lucy" crossover "comedy hour"
2008-03-16 09:54 < zocky> that's a very small number
2008-03-16 09:54 < zocky> is "crossover" the only word used for this?
2008-03-16 09:55 < Lady_Aleena> Try just "television crossovers." I started with I Love Lucy since it was the first series on the air.
2008-03-16 09:56 < TheWeasel> "The Minnesota Senate has designated Olivia the "Corn Capital of the World "."
2008-03-16 09:56 < zocky> Lady_Aleena, yeah, but do you want television crossovers in general, or just those starting with lucy, i.e. include many american shows?
2008-03-16 09:56 < TheWeasel> What jurisdiction does the MN Senate have over the corn-producing world?
2008-03-16 09:57 < Lady_Aleena> zocky, I was just doing the one shared reality. There is already an article/list about crossovers in general.
2008-03-16 10:00 < Lady_Aleena> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictional_crossover is the general article for crossovers.
2008-03-16 10:04 * brown_cat growls
2008-03-16 10:07 < TheWeasel> some people might be suffering from Beatlemania, fans of Bethel, Maine suffers from Bethelmaine-ia!
2008-03-16 10:08 < TheWeasel> -s
2008-03-16 10:08 < ideogram> weasel
2008-03-16 10:08 < ideogram> you are terrible
2008-03-16 10:10 < brown_cat> ill bet everyone 20 $ that just jeans' ip addy for their offices is 124.180.81.138
2008-03-16 10:12 < brown_cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Jeans <--- big arsed ad edited by ip addresses
2008-03-16 10:12 < Lady_Aleena> Maybe, after I get a few more references added, putting this in article space might get more attention and get it fleshed out better.
2008-03-16 10:13 < Lady_Aleena> And hopefully not AfDd too quickly.
2008-03-16 10:15 * TerribleWeasel just watches a 1996-type website that makes one shriek in horror
2008-03-16 10:15 < TerribleWeasel> http://www.camdenny.com/
2008-03-16 10:15 < Lady_Aleena> What is a 1996 type website?
2008-03-16 10:15 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-16 10:15 < TerribleWeasel> crude design
2008-03-16 10:16 < TerribleWeasel> Pointless clickable GIFs
2008-03-16 10:16 < TerribleWeasel> wallpaper-type background
2008-03-16 10:16 < brown_cat> TerribleWeasel: i can beat that
2008-03-16 10:16 < brown_cat> http://loop.com/
2008-03-16 10:16 < bumm13> rainbow-riffic!
2008-03-16 10:16 < Lady_Aleena> You wouldn't like mine then.
2008-03-16 10:16 < TerribleWeasel> what is it?
2008-03-16 10:16 < brown_cat> an isp
2008-03-16 10:16 < Lady_Aleena> My website?
2008-03-16 10:16 < TerribleWeasel> Oh, private websites are different
2008-03-16 10:16 < ideogram> <BLINK><H1>ATTENTION!!!</H1</BLINK>
2008-03-16 10:17 < TerribleWeasel> (preferably pink on a yellow background)
2008-03-16 10:17 < MessedRocker> hooray for 1998 web design
2008-03-16 10:17 * brown_cat imagines pointless giffs, a counter, an annoying cursor, custom google search and a crappy wallpaper
2008-03-16 10:17 < bumm13> or older
2008-03-16 10:18 < MessedRocker> don't forget midi
2008-03-16 10:18 < MessedRocker> Embedded midi
2008-03-16 10:18 < TerribleWeasel> unreadable fonts, embedded...precisely.
2008-03-16 10:18 < ideogram> hahahaha MUSIC STARTED PLAYING AND I DON"T KNOW WHY
2008-03-16 10:18 < TerribleWeasel> Times New Roman, obviously (the later generations of bad websites use Comic Sans)
2008-03-16 10:18 < Lady_Aleena> I use only 2 images on my entire site, and they are backgrounds.
2008-03-16 10:18 < MessedRocker> Hi doctor glasgow
2008-03-16 10:19 < MessedRocker> woot
2008-03-16 10:19 < TerribleWeasel> bad Java applets that take up 98% system resources for displaying (blue on grey) the same text over and over in marquee
2008-03-16 10:19 < MessedRocker> Also mibbit is leet win
2008-03-16 10:19 < Lady_Aleena> Excuse me, 4 images which are all backgrounds.
2008-03-16 10:20 < MessedRocker> I am on my iphone
2008-03-16 10:20 < TerribleWeasel> brb
2008-03-16 10:20 < Lady_Aleena> What is the general opinion of Garamond?
2008-03-16 10:20 < MessedRocker> its cool
2008-03-16 10:21 < Lady_Aleena> It is the font I use on my site.
2008-03-16 10:21 < MessedRocker> hi cracker
2008-03-16 10:21 < Lady_Aleena> I use garamond and arial with a little bit of georgia.
2008-03-16 10:23 < Lady_Aleena> Wait, I think I dumped georgia...
2008-03-16 10:23 < AndrewBuck> hey, everyone. I just popped in here because I was just surfing about on en.wikipedia and started getting 404 not found errors. Looks like its back up now though
2008-03-16 10:23 < MessedRocker> Georgia on your mind
2008-03-16 10:23 < AndrewBuck> has anyone else noticed this in the last couple days, i got it yesterday, too.
2008-03-16 10:24 < Lady_Aleena> Actually, getting this article/list ready for article space is on my mind.
2008-03-16 10:24 < Lady_Aleena> AndrewBuck: I haven't seen it.
2008-03-16 10:25 < AndrewBuck> thats kind of strange. I tried going to the main portal page and that, as well as the french, spanish, etc were working. probably just a minor hiccup then
2008-03-16 10:25 < Lady_Aleena> Probably
2008-03-16 10:26 < geniice> time to run for adminship methinks
2008-03-16 10:26 < AndrewBuck> thanks for the info. I'll talk to you later. Bye.
2008-03-16 10:29 < Doc_glasgow> geniice: pledge not to undo any admin's action without discussion, and you will have my support
2008-03-16 10:30 * Lady_Aleena will never get nominated for adminship.
2008-03-16 10:30 < Doc_glasgow> Lady_Aleena: you will if you nominate yourself
2008-03-16 10:30 < geniice> Doc_glasgow discussion has not I feel historicaly been the problem
2008-03-16 10:31 < Messedrocker> wikipedians
2008-03-16 10:31 < Messedrocker> Ugh
2008-03-16 10:32 < Doc_glasgow> geniice: I can't recall what the problem was. But you need to be ready for the inevitable question "you were desysopped before, how do we know it won't happen again?" You need to say something clearly that will pre-empt that.
2008-03-16 10:32 < Lady_Aleena> Doc_glasgow, that is vanity. If someone ever thinks that I am good for it, then it must be so.
2008-03-16 10:32 < Messedrocker> Good luck with discussions
2008-03-16 10:32 < geniice> Doc_glasgow more favoring policy/process over what other people wanted to do.
2008-03-16 10:32 < White_Cat_Zzz> wow
2008-03-16 10:32 < White_Cat_Zzz> I got span in japanese
2008-03-16 10:33 < White_Cat_Zzz> I am delighted
2008-03-16 10:33 < Doc_glasgow> geniice: so make it clear that while you will continue to argue for process, you will not use the admin tools to enforce it in the teeth of other admins' actions
2008-03-16 10:33 < Lady_Aleena> I got rollback privs out of the blue. Someone felt I was good for it and gave it to me.
2008-03-16 10:33 < geniice> Doc_glasgow It's more complicated that that but to an extent yes
2008-03-16 10:33 < Doc_glasgow> KISS
2008-03-16 10:34 < Doc_glasgow> desysopped admins don't need to do a mea culpa to be rtesysopped, but they do need to show that even if they think they were right, they will avoid recreating the circumstances that caused the problem.
2008-03-16 10:34 < Messedrocker> more like
2008-03-16 10:35 < Messedrocker> Wikipedia editors are idiots
2008-03-16 10:35 < Doc_glasgow> Messedrocker: you are?
2008-03-16 10:35 < geniice> Doc_glasgow circumstances can't happen again lines of command are a lot clearer
2008-03-16 10:35 < Doc_glasgow> true
2008-03-16 10:36 < Messedrocker> I sure am
2008-03-16 10:36 < Doc_glasgow> policy on wheel warring is now clearer, and whether one agrees with it or not, clarity is beneficial
2008-03-16 10:36 < Doc_glasgow> although it is still not totally clear
2008-03-16 10:40 < Messedrocker> Stupid Internet connectiov
2008-03-16 10:40 < Messedrocker> 3 of 5 bars
2008-03-16 10:40 < geniice> More the relationship between wikipedia.en the foundation and jimbo. Also we have some other suckers dealing with arbcom elections now.
2008-03-16 10:41 < Messedrocker> So there ought to be no excuse
2008-03-16 10:41 < Messedrocker> jimbo is a terrible leader
2008-03-16 10:42 < Messedrocker> I have never seen such a detached leader
2008-03-16 10:42 < mavhc> doesn't really matter, the content is Free
2008-03-16 10:46 * Lady_Aleena ponders leaving messages on 160+ talk pages hoping to find a few co-writers.
2008-03-16 10:50 < geniice> Messedrocker I have quite common in carrities
2008-03-16 10:51 < geniice> Messedrocker the one keen person on the committe does everything and the leader and everyone else passes things on the nod.
2008-03-16 10:53 < geniice> oh great the system thinks Geniac is me
2008-03-16 10:54 < jeremyb> -!- Messedrocker [i=208c6708@wikipedia/MessedRocker] has quit [Client Quit]
2008-03-16 10:54 < jeremyb> Lucifer_Cat: for what?
2008-03-16 10:55 < PS11> pl.wiki is the best!!
2008-03-16 10:56 < jeremyb> orly?
2008-03-16 10:56 < jeremyb> dzien dobry?
2008-03-16 10:56 < mavhc> cite your source
2008-03-16 10:56 < jeremyb> mavhc: use {{fact}}
2008-03-16 10:56 < geniice> Doc_glasgow If you want that debate garentee you going to have to ask at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship#Geni
2008-03-16 10:57 < bumm13> PS11: that's nice...
2008-03-16 10:57 < mavhc> jeremyb: TMA
2008-03-16 10:57 < jeremyb> mavhc: erm?
2008-03-16 10:58 < mavhc> too many acroyms
2008-03-16 10:58 < jeremyb> heh
2008-03-16 11:01 < White_Cat> geniice do you know the date of ja.wikiversity lauch?
2008-03-16 11:01 < White_Cat> *launch
2008-03-16 11:01 < geniice> I wan't aware there was going to be one
2008-03-16 11:02 < jeremyb> Not_the_NSA: coming to columbia?
2008-03-16 11:02 < geniice> try #wikiversity
2008-03-16 11:02 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: huh?
2008-03-16 11:02 * Not_the_NSA is staying in ameica
2008-03-16 11:02 < White_Cat> geniice I even prepared an Arine-V rocket
2008-03-16 11:02 < Not_the_NSA> america even
2008-03-16 11:03 < jeremyb> Not_the_NSA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC ?
2008-03-16 11:03 < geniice> White_Cat you could fit most wikimedia projects onto one external hard drive even a very small roxket could launch that
2008-03-16 11:03 < White_Cat> Wikipedia:Meetup/NYPD
2008-03-16 11:03 < White_Cat> geniice yes
2008-03-16 11:04 < White_Cat> but wikimedia servers are larger than that
2008-03-16 11:04 < White_Cat> a thought
2008-03-16 11:04 < White_Cat> if our servers were in orbit
2008-03-16 11:04 < White_Cat> would that mean we would not care about copyrighs anymore?
2008-03-16 11:05 < White_Cat> also
2008-03-16 11:05 < White_Cat> with the right insturments we could take legal photos of the eiffel tower at nihgt
2008-03-16 11:05 < ideogram> if someone got mad at Wikipedia for violating copyright they would find a legal excuse to stop the transmission
2008-03-16 11:05 < White_Cat> ideogram how will they stop it
2008-03-16 11:05 < White_Cat> you cant stop satelite waves
2008-03-16 11:07 < ideogram> you can cut off the ground receivers
2008-03-16 11:07 < Lucifer_Cat> jeremyb: what?
2008-03-16 11:07 < White_Cat> ideogram not quite
2008-03-16 11:07 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: oh...the university ;D
2008-03-16 11:07 < White_Cat> if the ground recievers are your 5m dish
2008-03-16 11:07 * Not_the_NSA wonders if jeremyb saw his cloak O_O
2008-03-16 11:08 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: I'm only 13 :\
2008-03-16 11:08 < ideogram> oh you mean a direcTV thing
2008-03-16 11:08 < geniice> hmp I've aparently edited Help talk once
2008-03-16 11:08 < White_Cat> ideogram like it yes
2008-03-16 11:08 < White_Cat> wikipedia is not a TV
2008-03-16 11:08 < ideogram> well they could jam it
2008-03-16 11:08 < White_Cat> you cant jam microwaves
2008-03-16 11:08 < ideogram> and hell, if they shoot it down, what are you going to do?
2008-03-16 11:09 < White_Cat> ideogram you can put it on a higher orbit
2008-03-16 11:09 < White_Cat> install laser defenses
2008-03-16 11:09 < ideogram> I don't think Wikipedia wants to get into an arms race with the United States
2008-03-16 11:09 < Fennec> recent demonstrations notwithstanding, shooting down satellites is not particularly common
2008-03-16 11:09 < White_Cat> ideogram a toight ;)
2008-03-16 11:09 < White_Cat> *thought
2008-03-16 11:10 * White_Cat puts Fennec in orbit
2008-03-16 11:10 < White_Cat> Fennec :)
2008-03-16 11:10 < jeremyb> Not_the_NSA: in the past ppl have brought their parents
2008-03-16 11:10 < jeremyb> Not_the_NSA: what does cloak have to do with it?
2008-03-16 11:11 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: you saw optonline...knew i was from the area
2008-03-16 11:11 < White_Cat> Fennec your last edit was on 16 February 2008
2008-03-16 11:11 < White_Cat> you wont make more edits?
2008-03-16 11:11 < mavhc> what we need is a distributed web server, then we can't be shut down, and don't need to play by one country's rules
2008-03-16 11:12 < jeremyb> Not_the_NSA: idk, i might have known you were nearby from a previous discussion but that did help (of course that's not really tied to new york; they are in other states)
2008-03-16 11:12 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: tristate area
2008-03-16 11:12 < ideogram> what are we, pirates?
2008-03-16 11:12 * jeremyb goes to look for a [[cablevision]]
2008-03-16 11:13 < mavhc> arrrr
2008-03-16 11:13 < White_Cat> ideogram pirates?
2008-03-16 11:13 < White_Cat> geeky kind at best
2008-03-16 11:13 < jeremyb> huh
2008-03-16 11:13 < White_Cat> very geeky kind
2008-03-16 11:13 < ideogram> llike thepiratebay
2008-03-16 11:14 < mavhc> the phishing botnet people probably already have one, so if you check your computer for code you might find one already
2008-03-16 11:14 < jeremyb> i thought they had a greater reach
2008-03-16 11:14 < White_Cat> thepiratebay is a bay for pirates
2008-03-16 11:14 < White_Cat> they are legit
2008-03-16 11:14 < jeremyb> anyway, maxmind says you are in uniondale :)
2008-03-16 11:14 < White_Cat> mavhc hnn
2008-03-16 11:15 < White_Cat> *hmmm
2008-03-16 11:15 < White_Cat> you busy?
2008-03-16 11:16 < Fennec> White_Cat: hmm?
2008-03-16 11:16 < Fennec> White_Cat: I've been busy practicing harp.
2008-03-16 11:16 < Fennec> (and, well, doing Work <tm>)
2008-03-16 11:17 < jeremyb> Messedrocker: you coming to columbia?
2008-03-16 11:17 < White_Cat> Fennec i need help from sane people at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Jack_Merridew
2008-03-16 11:17 < Messedrocker> no jeremyb
2008-03-16 11:17 < Fennec> White_Cat: sane people are hard to come by.
2008-03-16 11:17 < White_Cat> Fennec yes
2008-03-16 11:17 < White_Cat> and I know you are sane
2008-03-16 11:18 < Fennec> and therefore hard to come by >.>
2008-03-16 11:19 < White_Cat> Fennec I am quite desperate
2008-03-16 11:19 < White_Cat> Fennec you log this channel right?
2008-03-16 11:19 < White_Cat> can you check for a spesific nick for me
2008-03-16 11:20 < White_Cat> his hostmask and how long he has been on here
2008-03-16 11:20 < Fennec> not recently I don't.
2008-03-16 11:20 < Fennec> need to revampify all that.
2008-03-16 11:20 < White_Cat> :(
2008-03-16 11:22 < Fennec> and I need to eat, practice harp, and finish taxes.
2008-03-16 11:22 < Messedrocker> tippecanoe and tyler too, motherfucker!
2008-03-16 11:22 * Messedrocker goes nuts with a guitar
2008-03-16 11:22 < Not_the_NSA> Messedrocker: XD
2008-03-16 11:23 < jeremyb> hrmm
2008-03-16 11:23 < Not_the_NSA> Messedrocker: that was one of the old president's slogans
2008-03-16 11:23 * jeremyb covers Not_the_NSA's ears
2008-03-16 11:23 < Not_the_NSA> and I learned it last year...so it's before the civil war O_o
2008-03-16 11:23 * Not_the_NSA tells jeremyb he has heard worse
2008-03-16 11:23 * jeremyb tells Not_the_NSA he was joking
2008-03-16 11:24 * Not_the_NSA pretend laughs at jeremyb
2008-03-16 11:24 < Not_the_NSA> XD
2008-03-16 11:24 * jeremyb compliments Not_the_NSA's performance
2008-03-16 11:24 < Messedrocker> Not_the_NSA, specifically, during the 1840 election
2008-03-16 11:24 < Messedrocker> also, Mr. Tippecanoe dies after 30 days in office
2008-03-16 11:24 < Not_the_NSA> Messedrocker: there were so many presidents...i can't remember who did what
2008-03-16 11:24 < Not_the_NSA> it was annoying
2008-03-16 11:25 < Andries> hi
2008-03-16 11:25 < Not_the_NSA> how am I supposed to hear a fact and know oh yes...that was BLANK in the year BLANK
2008-03-16 11:25 < Not_the_NSA> o_o
2008-03-16 11:25 * Not_the_NSA knows Lincoln is #16
2008-03-16 11:25 < Not_the_NSA> washing jefferson adams 123 (or maybe 132)
2008-03-16 11:25 < jeremyb> hehe, we had a governor of new york in office for only 29 days (dec 1942)
2008-03-16 11:25 < Andries> busy with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andries/Theories_of_religion but what a work
2008-03-16 11:25 < Not_the_NSA> oh and Idiot is #43
2008-03-16 11:26 < Not_the_NSA> jeremyb: we had a pope in office for only few days O_O
2008-03-16 11:26 < Messedrocker> washington, adams, jefferson, madison, monroe
2008-03-16 11:26 < Messedrocker> i think it goes like that
2008-03-16 11:26 < Not_the_NSA> monroe doctrine O_o
2008-03-16 11:26 * Not_the_NSA looks at tippecanoes real name
2008-03-16 11:26 < Andries> can somebody please have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andries/Theories_of_religion and comment?
2008-03-16 11:26 < Messedrocker> william henry harrison
2008-03-16 11:27 < jeremyb> [[Charles Poletti]]
2008-03-16 11:34 < HardHard> hello :)
2008-03-16 11:34 < Pilotguy> goodbye :)
2008-03-16 11:34 < HardHard> you suck
2008-03-16 11:34 < Thehelpfulone2> hehe
2008-03-16 11:34 < Thehelpfulone2> XD
2008-03-16 11:35 < Pilotguy> ...oh dear.
2008-03-16 11:35 * Pilotguy kicks KVIrc
2008-03-16 11:36 < Pilotguy> wait a minute...
2008-03-16 11:36 * Thehelpfulone2 waits a minute
2008-03-16 11:36 < Pilotguy> hmph.
2008-03-16 11:37 < Pilotguy> meh.
2008-03-16 11:37 * Thehelpfulone2 's keyboard is making funny noises - he thinks that he has been typing on it for too long :)
2008-03-16 11:39 < Pilotguy> I thought I told you to get...
2008-03-16 11:39 < Pilotguy> good lord, do you people ever learn
2008-03-16 11:46 < Pilotguy> In other news
2008-03-16 11:46 < Pilotguy> GO TAR HEELS!!!!!
2008-03-16 11:46 < Fennec> HEATHEN!!!!!
2008-03-16 11:46 < Fennec> go deacs :P
2008-03-16 11:46 < Pilotguy> Fennec- heh
2008-03-16 11:47 < Pilotguy> Fennec- Maybe next year
2008-03-16 11:47 < White_Cat> Pilotguy so you blew him away?
2008-03-16 11:47 < White_Cat> hello domas
2008-03-16 11:47 < Pilotguy> White_Cat- Yes. Yes I did.
2008-03-16 11:48 < Andries> who is the sock puppet here?
2008-03-16 11:48 < Pilotguy> u
2008-03-16 11:49 < Andries> that may be true. Please perform check user on me.
2008-03-16 11:49 < Andries> I am busy with writing [[Theories of religion]] which so much work.
2008-03-16 11:50 < White_Cat> Andries I am a sockpuppet
2008-03-16 11:50 < Andries> It is nearly good enough to be copied in the main article namespace. What do you think?
2008-03-16 11:51 < White_Cat> Andries well
2008-03-16 11:51 < White_Cat> I cant comment on something I dont see
2008-03-16 11:51 < Andries> Really? Great. I love confessions. You will be locked into wikijail for at least 10 years
2008-03-16 11:51 < White_Cat> Andries I am a sockuppet of jimbo tho
2008-03-16 11:51 < Andries> Here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Andries/Theories_of_religion
2008-03-16 11:52 < Andries> You will be sent to wikijail for at least 10 years.
2008-03-16 11:52 < gwern> y'know, this WikiLeaks project is really turning out to be pretty interesting
2008-03-16 11:52 < White_Cat> your sourcing has problems
2008-03-16 11:52 < gwern> I'll admit, I was skeptical when it was announced, but it's really delivered
2008-03-16 11:53 * gwern wonders how sourcing stuff to WikiLeaks would be treated on WP
2008-03-16 11:53 < Andries> White cat what do you mean? I admit that I did not consistently add page numbers.
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> also your overal flow is more your opinions and less hard facts
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> page number (?) is unhelpful
2008-03-16 11:53 < Andries> Of course I know that
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> “Kunin” means nothing to me
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> is it a TV episode?
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> Book title?
2008-03-16 11:53 < White_Cat> what?
2008-03-16 11:54 < gwern> 'Among the most viewed list for February, the page that has been protected the longest is Swastika, which has been move protected continuously since 1 May 2005 (more than 1050 days). The page that has been edit protected the longest is Marilyn Manson (band), which has been semi-protected since 5 January 2006 (more than 800 days).'
2008-03-16 11:54 < White_Cat> gwern what about bush?
2008-03-16 11:54 < Andries> <White_Cat>, theories of religions are always mere opinions and never hard facts. That is something that cannot be improved.
2008-03-16 11:54 < gwern> White_Cat: dunno
2008-03-16 11:54 < gwern> 'Although only one in eight of the pages in the most viewed list were protected at some point during the relevant period, they tended to be higher-profile ones, accounting for one third of the page views. The pages that were protected at some point tended to be protected alot of the time, three-quarters of them for the entire sample period. This certainly fits with what many people have already suspected, that a small pool of high-profile articles ...
2008-03-16 11:55 < gwern> ... attract plenty of attention in the form of both page protection and page views.'
2008-03-16 11:55 < White_Cat> AndrewB then the flow should reflect whoes opinons they are
2008-03-16 11:55 < White_Cat> “Their theory has been criticized as one-sided for focusing on mere intellectual aspects of religions, while neglecting among others the social aspects of religion”
2008-03-16 11:55 < White_Cat> by who?
2008-03-16 11:55 < Andries> White catm okay, I will try to see what I can do about that.
2008-03-16 11:55 < White_Cat> says who?
2008-03-16 11:55 < Andries> I will have a look at that.
2008-03-16 11:56 < White_Cat> stuff like that
2008-03-16 11:56 < White_Cat> you can work in article namespace too
2008-03-16 11:56 < Andries> \by various scholars I think
2008-03-16 11:56 < gwern> 'This diagram is not really a secret to foreign intelligence services; nobody is going to be surprised by this design, just by the fact that it’s appeared in public. Open sources have speculated on these matters for a long time (see nuclear weapons design article in Wikipedia), and this just confirms that they were right. (The structure of the neutron initiator is elegant, and interesting, however.) '
2008-03-16 11:56 < Andries> Yes, I know I can work in main article namespace, but it may not be good enough.
2008-03-16 11:57 < Andries> not good enough yet.
2008-03-16 11:57 < Fennec> Eh. I still want a 5-minute-delay model of protection. If an anonymous/new-user-type edit stays in place 5 minutes without being reverted, that becomes the current copy. >.>
2008-03-16 11:58 < Fennec> Andries: Perhaps "Criticisms of this theory include ..." than "their theory has been criticized" would be better. sounds more neutral to me, anyway.
2008-03-16 11:58 < Andries> okay, that sounds like constructive criticism :)
2008-03-16 11:58 < Andries> Fennec, thanks
2008-03-16 11:58 < Fennec> and, of course, cite criticism
2008-03-16 11:58 < White_Cat> “by various scholars” is not valid
2008-03-16 11:59 < White_Cat> who?
2008-03-16 11:59 < Andries> by almost every scholar
2008-03-16 11:59 < White_Cat> that may be true
2008-03-16 11:59 < White_Cat> put names
2008-03-16 11:59 < Andries> by nearly all later scholars
2008-03-16 11:59 < White_Cat> like the first person you know
2008-03-16 11:59 < Fennec> it's easier to come up with the criticisms than to document how widespread the criticism is.
2008-03-16 12:00 < White_Cat> AndrewB that is what we call weaselwords
2008-03-16 12:00 < White_Cat> you want to avoid them
2008-03-16 12:00 < White_Cat> you can say
2008-03-16 12:00 < Fennec> this is the tricksy part of talking about nonsense theories and related matters.
2008-03-16 12:00 < White_Cat> source a claims
2008-03-16 12:00 < Andries> Yes, I know the concept of weasel words, but if it takes time to find more detailed criticism
2008-03-16 12:00 < Fennec> "Everyone knows better." "Oh yeah? Did you go and survey everyone? Huh?"
2008-03-16 12:01 < Fennec> nontrivial.
2008-03-16 12:01 < Andries> I mean, the more detailed an article is, the bigger the chance that inaccuracies slip in.
2008-03-16 12:01 < Andries> So confining yourself to Weaselwords, saves time and is safe,.
2008-03-16 12:02 * White_Cat surveys Fennec
2008-03-16 12:02 < White_Cat> Fennec did you see material at the link I posted?
2008-03-16 12:03 < Fennec> 'fraid not.
2008-03-16 12:03 < White_Cat> dont be afraid
2008-03-16 12:03 < White_Cat> see the link
2008-03-16 12:03 * Fennec is afraid he's doing tax work instead.
2008-03-16 12:04 < White_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Jack_Merridew
2008-03-16 12:04 < Fennec> (transcribing my in-pencil draft to pen)
2008-03-16 12:11 < Andries> Fennec, the source that I used (Pals) does not mention names.
2008-03-16 12:12 < Andries> So I dunno how to avoid weasel words.\
2008-03-16 12:12 < Andries> well, I will have a more detailed look. May be I can find a name of critic if I search very deeply.
2008-03-16 12:13 < NotACow> DEATH!
2008-03-16 12:13 < Messedrocker> LIFE!
2008-03-16 12:29 < Lycurgus> 2nd Death, 2nd Life.
2008-03-16 12:34 < Messedrocker> is it possible to die in second life?
2008-03-16 12:34 < Andries> who is the sockpuppet here?
2008-03-16 12:34 < Andries> I dunno
2008-03-16 12:35 < Andries> hi
2008-03-16 12:35 < Fennec> Messedrocker: yes.
2008-03-16 12:35 < Messedrocker> and if you die in second life, do you permanently die?
2008-03-16 12:35 < Fennec> Messedrocker: no.
2008-03-16 12:37 < The359> If you die in Second Life, does anyone care?
2008-03-16 12:37 < Messedrocker> The359, i'd say it's analogous to a tree falling in a forest
2008-03-16 12:37 < The359> that was the point I was trying to make
2008-03-16 12:38 < Lycurgus> it's primitive but obviously the concept is going places
2008-03-16 12:38 < The359> no, it isn't
2008-03-16 12:38 < The359> we've had Trekkies living in their own world for decades
2008-03-16 12:38 < Lycurgus> haven't fully evaluated what's going on in the open source alternatives to lindens shits
2008-03-16 12:39 < Lycurgus> well, there's the second death and there's the generally abhored death in life
2008-03-16 12:40 < Fennec> the concept may eventually go places, but Second Life is not taking it there.
2008-03-16 12:40 < Lycurgus> considered by many the worst of the two, but at least you can recover from the latter.
2008-03-16 12:41 < Lycurgus> yes, the linden product/service is just another transaparent (in a bad way) corporate scam
2008-03-16 12:42 < Lycurgus> but it's also a proof of concept as they have several million users and a few 10s of thousands online at any time
2008-03-16 12:43 < Messedrocker> if you die in first life, do you die in second life as well
2008-03-16 12:43 < Fennec> no.
2008-03-16 12:43 < Fennec> you just fade away.
2008-03-16 12:43 < Messedrocker> if you are a black cat
2008-03-16 12:43 < Messedrocker> and you lived in the american south in the 50s
2008-03-16 12:44 < Messedrocker> would you get lynched by the white cats for being a darkie?
2008-03-16 12:44 < Fennec> mew.
2008-03-16 12:44 < Fennec> I CAN HAS RACISM?
2008-03-16 12:45 < Fennec> DO NOT WANT.
2008-03-16 12:45 < mooboo1> help adminjistator menz, im trying to add "vuze.com" to external link to article "Vuze" but it dont works! it say it spam!! :(
2008-03-16 12:46 < Fennec> hmm
2008-03-16 12:46 < The359> Probably because it is?
2008-03-16 12:46 < Cyrius> that's not spam
2008-03-16 12:47 < Fennec> naah, seems legit
2008-03-16 12:47 < Fennec> BitTorrenty clienty stuffs.
2008-03-16 12:47 < mooboo1> i dont know if its legit or not, it seems legit
2008-03-16 12:47 < Lycurgus> yeah, ignorant narrow minded bigot from region X doesn't play so well in the age of mondialisation
2008-03-16 12:47 < mooboo1> perhaps they have spammed other article with that link, i dont know, but the official 'vuze' article, should have a link to the official page, dont you think?
2008-03-16 12:48 < Fennec> hm. where's that spam filter list live again....
2008-03-16 12:48 < Cyrius> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Spam_blacklist
2008-03-16 12:48 < Cyrius> I don't see vuze on it
2008-03-16 12:50 < mooboo1> try add it to the article then, and you will see it say HEY SPAMMER! GTFO
2008-03-16 12:54 < Fennec> tacky quit messages
2008-03-16 12:54 < NotACow> BARBARA MANATEE
2008-03-16 12:54 < Messedrocker> GEORGE WALTER BUSH
2008-03-16 12:55 < Messedrocker> AND HIS FATHER BARBARA
2008-03-16 12:56 < mooboo1> firefox open links from xchat?
2008-03-16 12:56 < NotASpy> Bah-Bah-Bah Bah Barbara Bush
2008-03-16 12:56 < mooboo1> it dont for me
2008-03-16 12:57 * Cyrius can't figure out why this link is triggering the spam filter
2008-03-16 12:58 < Cyrius> local blacklist, fun
2008-03-16 13:01 < TerribleWeasel> Cheers
2008-03-16 13:02 * BumbleBush wonders what the fuss is about Obama's pastor
2008-03-16 13:02 < BumbleBush> everybody *knows* he's mathematically correct.
2008-03-16 13:03 < BumbleBush> silly to deny
2008-03-16 13:04 < BumbleBush> and yet even 'Bama himself does
2008-03-16 13:04 < BumbleBush> hope his plans don't include new arithmetics standards
2008-03-16 13:09 < BumbleBush> oh right, he was incompletely quoted here.
2008-03-16 13:09 * Fennec ponders a bumper sticker, "ZOMGimpeachEVERYONE"
2008-03-16 13:09 < BumbleBush> nevermind then
2008-03-16 13:10 < Fennec> !!1.
2008-03-16 13:10 < BumbleBush> "We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye..."
2008-03-16 13:10 < BumbleBush> that's the part they quoted
2008-03-16 13:10 < BumbleBush> the rest is arguably bs
2008-03-16 13:11 < Fennec> On the contrary. I believe many eyes were batted.
2008-03-16 13:12 < BumbleBush> yea, well, maybe they left out that one as well.
2008-03-16 13:12 < mooboo1> not many updates past days
2008-03-16 13:13 < BumbleBush> except that eye-batting ain't worth much if one continues to consider it the Right Thing
2008-03-16 13:17 < Cyrius> mooboo1: I added it to the removal requests, going to wait a bit and see what happens
2008-03-16 13:18 < mooboo1> okie
2008-03-16 13:18 * Cyrius considers merging [[Azureus, Inc.]] into [[Vuze, Inc.]]
2008-03-16 13:19 < BumbleBush> "Luckily, none of the inhabitants was injured."
2008-03-16 13:19 < BumbleBush> OMG POV
2008-03-16 13:20 < Cyrius> -Luckily
2008-03-16 13:20 < BumbleBush> Yup.
2008-03-16 13:20 < Cyrius> it's hard to not type stuff like that
2008-03-16 13:20 < BumbleBush> Although I think there's a border to NPOV
2008-03-16 13:20 < Messedrocker> SHAERTS
2008-03-16 13:20 < Cyrius> 'fortunately' and 'unfortunately' are my demons
2008-03-16 13:20 < BumbleBush> and its close to there
2008-03-16 13:25 * Cyrius is glad he settled the iPhone RAM question to a reasonable degree of verifiability
2008-03-16 13:28 < Lycurgus> "However, none of the inhabitants was injured." woud be wp.
2008-03-16 13:28 < Lycurgus> *would. or just schlicht.
2008-03-16 13:30 < Cyrius> "However, none of the inhabitants was injured. [citation needed]"
2008-03-16 13:30 < Cyrius> I keed
2008-03-16 13:50 < Alkivar> http://xo.typepad.com/blog/2008/03/video-disaster.html
2008-03-16 13:50 < Alkivar> LOL poor mcdonalds
2008-03-16 13:51 < geniice> "Strong Oppose Wiki is not a child porn site. SorryThright" hmp
2008-03-16 13:52 < Lucifer_Cat> what was that
2008-03-16 13:55 < geniice> comment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Geni2
2008-03-16 14:03 < NotASpy> geniice: I see you've got a knack for bringing the fruitcakes out to play.
2008-03-16 14:04 < geniice> NotASpy I've been accused of many many things up to an incudeing trying to start ww3 but CP is a new one
2008-03-16 14:04 < NotASpy> the guy's a Grade A nutter anyway, I wouldn't worry unduly.
2008-03-16 14:07 * Lycurgus doesn't want to know about this.
2008-03-16 14:09 < geniice> on a happier note thanks to the british empire's habit of nicking anything that wasn't actualy part of the landscape I managed to get a pic of burmese bronzework without going to burma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Example_of_burmese_bronze_casting.jpg
2008-03-16 14:12 < NotASpy> oh, we nicked bits of the landscape too, The Botanic Gardens at Kew are a good example of that.
2008-03-16 14:13 < Cyrius> they didn't make a habit of bringing home the landscape only because they'd have nowhere to put it
2008-03-16 14:14 < BumbleBush> Well, either you nick it from them or they nick it themselves (or have int'l corporations do it for them)
2008-03-16 14:15 < BumbleBush> in things like nickel mines and public logging
2008-03-16 14:17 < mooboo1> should {{reqscreenshot}} be in the article page or article talk page?
2008-03-16 14:18 < gwern> geniice: excellent. now go get some pics of greece, by which I mean the Elgin marbles
2008-03-16 14:19 < geniice> gwern been done http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Elgin_Marbles_British_Museum.jpg
2008-03-16 14:19 < geniice> mooboo1 talk page
2008-03-16 14:19 < gwern> nice artistic pic, but you can't see the marbles themselves very well
2008-03-16 14:19 < mooboo1> geniice, thanks
2008-03-16 14:20 < gwern> 'Publishers in Denmark and France, too, are rethinking the commercial viability of their encyclopedias. A one-volume French encyclopedia, Quid, lost its publisher last month, and may only survive online. The largest publisher in Denmark, Gyldendal, has decided that the subscription plan for its online encyclopedia is misguided (it stopped a print edition in 2006). It plans to come up with another way to support itself.'
2008-03-16 14:21 < gwern> hadn't hjeard about the denmark one
2008-03-16 14:21 < gwern> 'The Encyclopedia Americana still has good sales in print volumes, said Greg Worrell, president of Scholastic Classroom and Library Group, but the company is focusing on its online outlets. He said it was still determining a print plan, but added, “the likelihood is there will not be the 2009 multivolume print version.”'
2008-03-16 14:22 < gwern> 'Britannica says it updates an article every 20 minutes. Even the Stanford Philosophy Encyclopedia will make changes with relative speed. When a law was passed on voluntary euthanasia in the Netherlands, “our entry was updated within a couple of weeks, at the latest,” said Edward N. Zalta, a senior research scholar at Stanford and principal editor of the online encyclopedia. “It may have been a day or two — we don’t do it as quickly as ...
2008-03-16 14:22 < gwern> ... Wikipedia, but in a timely way.”'
2008-03-16 14:33 < gwern> 'Nowadays, the hatch in the back of a 727 will not open while the plane is in the air. This is my little contribution to the history of aviation. The device that keeps the hatch sealed tight is called a “Cooper Vane.” But back before D.B. Cooper existed there was no such security feature. Who would open the hatch in mid-flight anyway? Who would jump?'
2008-03-16 14:34 * The359 finds the [[Gurney flap]] to be a better device named after its inventor
2008-03-16 14:35 < SaxPlayer> salut HellDragon :D
2008-03-16 14:36 < HellDragon> salut SaxPlayer
2008-03-16 14:37 < Mole2> Hello everyone. Is there any IRC channel especially for meta? I haven't found any in any lists and tried some likely channel names here, but fuond nothing.
2008-03-16 14:37 < SaxPlayer> #wikipedia is kinda the -meta
2008-03-16 14:38 < Mole2> SaxPlayer: Yeah, I kind of thought so.
2008-03-16 14:38 < Mole2> So, then I'll ask in here then. :)
2008-03-16 14:38 < Mole2> I am making some meta templates (as in templates used inside many other template), and using fairly short generic names for them.
2008-03-16 14:39 < quanticle> gwern: You sure it wasn't to prevent accidental hatch openings from depressurizing the cabin? I know the DC-9 had an issue with its cargo doors where it would do that.
2008-03-16 14:39 < Mole2> So if any one makes similar templates on other projects, then there is a risk for a name collision. (Since we tend to copy nice templates and pages that use them around between projects.)
2008-03-16 14:40 < quanticle> Mole, just add "meta" in front of all your template names...
2008-03-16 14:40 < Mole2> So, I suppose then I should copy my templates to meta so they gets more visible, right? So others might see them before they use those names.
2008-03-16 14:40 < Mole2> quanticle: Eh?
2008-03-16 14:40 < quanticle> Won't that prevent name collisions? Using a naming convention that says that all meta-templates have meta as a prefix?
2008-03-16 14:40 < Mole2> quanticle: Ah, you mean instead making them with the short name at meta, and then copy them to en.wikipedia as meta.shortname?
2008-03-16 14:41 < Mole2> quanticle: Yeah, seems like an idea.
2008-03-16 14:41 < Mole2> (But I am really making these templates for en.wikipedia.)
2008-03-16 14:42 < quanticle> Right, but they could have application outside en, right?
2008-03-16 14:42 < Mole2> quanticle: Ah ok, you mean "meta prefix" as in "meta" (templates used inside other templates).
2008-03-16 14:42 < quanticle> Right.
2008-03-16 14:42 < Mole2> Right, I expect them to be copied to many other projects.
2008-03-16 14:43 < Mole2> (My templates tend to get copied. My old ones are all over the place now. :))
2008-03-16 14:43 < quanticle> So, instead of saying template:foo, you'd say template:meta-foo
2008-03-16 14:43 < Mole2> Sounds like a good idea. But it makes the names longer.
2008-03-16 14:43 < Mole2> I was more worried that others will choose the same name for a similar template on another project.
2008-03-16 14:43 < Mole2> I wish templates could work like images on commons. :)
2008-03-16 14:43 < Mole2> We need a template commons.
2008-03-16 14:44 < Mole2> That is, any image that is on commons can be used automaticall with the same name on all other wikipedia sites.
2008-03-16 14:44 < quanticle> Yeah, but, in lieu of a *real* solution, our only option seems to be to alter our naming conventions...
2008-03-16 14:44 < Mole2> Yeah, perhaps do as I do at work: There we often start our function names with our initials. :)
2008-03-16 14:45 < Mole2> But that is ulgy and not in wiki style, since those templates are not really "mine" once I publish them.
2008-03-16 14:45 < Mole2> *ugly
2008-03-16 14:45 < Mole2> Perhaps some prefixs that says "enwp" would be more neutral.
2008-03-16 14:46 < quanticle> Starting function names with initials of the creator sounds like a pretty terrible practice. It signals to me that lots of people are creating functions with the same names, which usually means that the functions do the same things.
2008-03-16 14:46 < Mole2> Yeah.
2008-03-16 14:47 < quanticle> Which makes me wonder, "If the function's already written, then why not use it? Why create your own?"
2008-03-16 14:47 < Mole2> Something like {{enwp ambox}} is nicer than {{mole ambox}}.
2008-03-16 14:48 < Mole2> Well, what I am afraid of is that people on different language wikipedias and on metawiki will create similar functioning templates under the same name as I.
2008-03-16 14:49 < quanticle> Well, in that case, why shouldn't they use your template?
2008-03-16 14:49 < Mole2> I am not worried about collisions within enwp, since that is one namespace and there we try to link together all similar templates. So it usually is easy to check if there is something similat BEFORE one makes one.
2008-03-16 14:49 < Mole2> quanticle: Well, since they won't know that it exist.
2008-03-16 14:49 < Mole2> Of course, making it at enwp seems to be a good way to "block" the name for other projects. :)
2008-03-16 14:49 < quanticle> Until they try to create the template, and get a namespace conflict.
2008-03-16 14:50 < Mole2> Well, they don't get a name conflict if they do a similar template on meta, and on de.wp, and on ru.wp.
2008-03-16 14:50 < quanticle> Then what exactly is the problem?
2008-03-16 14:50 < Mole2> Well, I should perhaps explain what template I am going to do:
2008-03-16 14:51 < Mole2> {{tlc}} which will work much like {{tl}} and thus might be used in a lot of help and how-to pages that gets copied between projects.
2008-03-16 14:51 < ShakespeareFan00> Anyone from Buffalo , NY in?
2008-03-16 14:52 < Mole2> So it would be bad if they would have to change all occurrances of {{tlc}} in all those pages when they copy them, just because a name collision.
2008-03-16 14:52 < quanticle> As in the other project could have a {{tlc}} that does something different?
2008-03-16 14:52 < Mole2> Right.
2008-03-16 14:54 < quanticle> In that case, I say go with the original plan of using a naming convention. Use something like {{en-tlc}} to signify that this is to be only on en, and use {{m-en-tlc}} if the template is a component.
2008-03-16 14:54 < Mole2> So what I wonder is if there is any system or practice available for avoiding cross project (between different language wps) name collisions?