freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-12 19:20 < Kerotan> yeah.
2008-03-12 19:20 < Kerotan> It has like 3 articles.
2008-03-12 19:21 < Kerotan> http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page
2008-03-12 19:21 < Tony_Sidaway> Ah, then it's XYZ-BSD to our Debian.
2008-03-12 19:22 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: is that an actual BSD distribution?
2008-03-12 19:22 < Kerotan> Most of the focus on how gay people pray on the young.
2008-03-12 19:22 < Cyrius> Tony_Sidaway: you seriously didn't know Conservapedia wasn't real until just now?
2008-03-12 19:22 < Tony_Sidaway> gwern: no. JUst a no-name placeholder for an obscure BSD.
2008-03-12 19:22 < Kerotan> It makes for funny reading...
2008-03-12 19:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Cyrius: I don't get out much :p
2008-03-12 19:22 < Cyrius> it's where Ed Poor went
2008-03-12 19:22 * gwern doesn't get it then
2008-03-12 19:23 < Kerotan> If you don't realise that people actually believe the crap on those pages...
2008-03-12 19:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Cyrius: I'm so out of it I didn't even know a thing about the Mantanmoreland fuss until a couple of weeks ago.
2008-03-12 19:23 < Cyrius> an operating system analogy doesn't really work with Conservapedia:Wikipedia
2008-03-12 19:23 < Cyrius> because there's no operating system based on denial of reality
2008-03-12 19:23 < Demi> it would be more like a HomophobiaBSD
2008-03-12 19:24 < Tony_Sidaway> Actually they say they have 23,500 articles. That's not bad going, though I guess many are straight GFDL copies from Wikipedia.
2008-03-12 19:24 < shimgray> "there's no operating system based on denial of reality" - oh, now, that sounds like a challenge
2008-03-12 19:24 < Tony_Sidaway> Danny's thing ony got up to about 5,000 articles last I checked. Veropedia.
2008-03-12 19:24 < Tony_Sidaway> Not a wiki of course, but still.
2008-03-12 19:24 < Cyrius> shimgray: I have no idea how a faith-based OS would work =)
2008-03-12 19:24 < Kerotan> lol
2008-03-12 19:25 < Tony_Sidaway> shimgray: DOS 4
2008-03-12 19:25 < Demi> instead of just killing processes, you could stone them, or stretch them on a rack instead of using brk(), that kind of thing
2008-03-12 19:25 < privatemusings> g'day tony_sidaway!
2008-03-12 19:25 < Kerotan> The power of Christ compels you to open word.
2008-03-12 19:25 < Messedrocker> I think Danny should get employees
2008-03-12 19:25 < Cyrius> certainly wouldn't have any sort of proofs or testing
2008-03-12 19:25 < Demi> you would send things to hell rather than a chroot() jail
2008-03-12 19:25 < Cyrius> processes wouldn't be killed, they'd be martyred
2008-03-12 19:25 < Demi> pray() replaces malloc()
2008-03-12 19:26 < privatemusings> g'day messedrocker....
2008-03-12 19:26 < Cyrius> using undocumented APIs would be witchcraft
2008-03-12 19:26 < Messedrocker> hi private musings
2008-03-12 19:26 < privatemusings> did you notice that we're having another chit chat possibly on monday evening?
2008-03-12 19:26 < privatemusings> (all are welcome, of course....!)
2008-03-12 19:26 < Cyrius> who's we?
2008-03-12 19:26 < ALLSTARecho> hey, what is the freenode commons channel?
2008-03-12 19:27 < bumm13> hiya Demi
2008-03-12 19:27 < privatemusings> we is a bunch of people who plan on meeting via skype for a chit chat
2008-03-12 19:27 < Cyrius> #wikimedia.commons
2008-03-12 19:27 < Cyrius> er, no
2008-03-12 19:27 < Cyrius> #wikimedia-commons
2008-03-12 19:27 < ALLSTARecho> thank you
2008-03-12 19:27 < privatemusings> it's at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:NotTheWikipediaWeekly
2008-03-12 19:27 < gwern> Demi: no, pray() would replace save(), since we humans cannot save anything - only Jesus saves
2008-03-12 19:28 < Hello32020> hmm my shift keys arent working
2008-03-12 19:28 < bumm13> :(
2008-03-12 19:28 < Hello32020> oh they are now nvm
2008-03-12 19:28 < bumm13> hooray!
2008-03-12 19:28 < Cyrius> gwern: great logic =)
2008-03-12 19:28 < Hello32020> HORRAY!
2008-03-12 19:28 < Tony_Sidaway> From Conservapedia article on Bill Clinton: Clinton aggressively advocated homosexuality
2008-03-12 19:28 < Tony_Sidaway> Sheesh!
2008-03-12 19:29 < bumm13> that's ridiculous
2008-03-12 19:29 < Cyrius> rather than priority, programs have a sin level?
2008-03-12 19:29 < Tony_Sidaway> Almost a shame he didn't aggressively advocate it to all those ladies.
2008-03-12 19:29 < Tony_Sidaway> Might have saved him from trouble.
2008-03-12 19:29 < Cyrius> Tony_Sidaway: and now you get the Conservapedia jokes =)
2008-03-12 19:29 < privatemusings> anything that you can't satire more than it manages itself has gotta be good....
2008-03-12 19:29 < gwern> Cyrius: what would constitute a mortal sin?
2008-03-12 19:29 < privatemusings> conservapedia's like that, i reckon....
2008-03-12 19:29 < Messedrocker> aggressively advocated homosexuality?
2008-03-12 19:29 < Messedrocker> how the hell do you do that?
2008-03-12 19:29 < Cyrius> gwern: I dunno, a program that connects to a porn server?
2008-03-12 19:30 < Tony_Sidaway> This is what it ACTUALLY says, which is even weirder:
2008-03-12 19:30 < Tony_Sidaway> In 1994 a Pentagon researcher in the Clinton Administration requested funding to develop a non-lethal "love bomb" that would chemically alter the state of mind of enemy combatants and make them want to have sex with each other rather than fight.[8] In late 1995, President Clinton dispatched some 20,000 U.S. troops to Bosnia. Clinton aggressively advocated homosexuality. [9]
2008-03-12 19:30 < Messedrocker> "I AM A FAN OF YOU BEING GAY. GO AHEAD AND HAVE SEX WITH THE SAME GENDER. NOTE I AM USING ALL CAPS"
2008-03-12 19:30 < bumm13> "love bomb"???
2008-03-12 19:30 < Messedrocker> yeah
2008-03-12 19:30 < Cyrius> Messedrocker: I got a severe dinosaur comics vibe from that
2008-03-12 19:30 < Tony_Sidaway> Read together like that it just looks like some weird plan to make all the troops homosexual.
2008-03-12 19:30 < Messedrocker> the bomb that made people go gay
2008-03-12 19:30 < Cyrius> the gay bomb
2008-03-12 19:30 < gwern> Cyrius: truth and beauty bombs?
2008-03-12 19:30 < gwern> Messedrocker: I could only support members of my own gender being gay. means less competition for t'other gender
2008-03-12 19:30 < bumm13> that seems beyond even the ability of John Birchers to have created that :P
2008-03-12 19:31 < Cyrius> [[gay bomb]]
2008-03-12 19:31 < Messedrocker> lol
2008-03-12 19:31 * bumm13 returns to his orbiting laser platform
2008-03-12 19:31 < Cyrius> it was just a hypothetical proposal =)
2008-03-12 19:31 < privatemusings> tony, did you decide to change your username in the end (a la wikback?)
2008-03-12 19:32 < Cyrius> "The reports also include many other off-beat ideas, such as spraying enemy troops with bee pheromones and then hiding numerous beehives in the combat area, and a chemical weapon that would give the enemy bad breath."
2008-03-12 19:32 < Messedrocker> he did
2008-03-12 19:32 < Messedrocker> Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
2008-03-12 19:32 * gwern is impressed with how many links to [[1360]] there are
2008-03-12 19:32 < gwern> busy year
2008-03-12 19:33 < privatemusings> someone (Uninvited Company, I think) started a poll to see if they could persuade Tony to change again.....
2008-03-12 19:33 < privatemusings> Didn't Like the new username, they
2008-03-12 19:33 < Tony_Sidaway> " While his wife is now seeking financial donations for the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008 may face a felony conviction that carries with it a five year sentence, according to WorldNetDaily, for receiving $1.9 million to her Senate Campaign in illegal donations,"
2008-03-12 19:33 < Tony_Sidaway> This is like through the looking glass
2008-03-12 19:33 < Cyrius> ...what?
2008-03-12 19:34 < bumm13> that's not even comprehensible grammar ;p
2008-03-12 19:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Cyrius: it's muddled but I think they're saying Hillary is illegally receiving donations and could be jailed for five years.
2008-03-12 19:34 < shimgray> yeah, you need a "who" and two commas
2008-03-12 19:34 < Cyrius> that's what I figured it was saying
2008-03-12 19:34 < Tony_Sidaway> Or serve as President for four, though that could be disallowed as cruel andunusual punishment
2008-03-12 19:34 < shimgray> "His wife, who is now seeking etc, may face..."
2008-03-12 19:35 < bumm13> if anyone knows how to *legally* receive political-campaign contributions, it's politicians ;p
2008-03-12 19:35 < Messedrocker> i like TAoaNLA
2008-03-12 19:35 < Messedrocker> or TANLA
2008-03-12 19:36 < Messedrocker> is a nice name
2008-03-12 19:36 < Messedrocker> TOANLA
2008-03-12 19:36 < Tony_Sidaway> OH I see Ed Poor in recent changes.
2008-03-12 19:36 < bumm13> TONELOC
2008-03-12 19:36 < Messedrocker> or is it OANLA,T
2008-03-12 19:36 < Tony_Sidaway> And there's a DHayes there. I seem to recall a Dave Hayes from Usenet.
2008-03-12 19:37 < privatemusings> you can get ANAL OT from that of course....
2008-03-12 19:37 < bumm13> it's nothing more than a extremist/nutjob conservative and pro-home schooling fantasyland :P
2008-03-12 19:37 < Cyrius> bumm13: I recall a story recently about one of the campaign workers quitting because the campaign was making unauthorized donations on her credit card
2008-03-12 19:37 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-12 19:37 < Cyrius> over the donation limit
2008-03-12 19:38 < bumm13> that's not good
2008-03-12 19:38 < Cyrius> haven't followed up on it though
2008-03-12 19:38 < Tony_Sidaway> Actually this DHayes just got a "first,last and only warning" from Ed Poor
2008-03-12 19:38 < bumm13> hear him ROAAAAR!
2008-03-12 19:38 < privatemusings> hmmm... credit card issues and donations....
2008-03-12 19:38 < privatemusings> sounds a bit familiar.....
2008-03-12 19:38 < privatemusings> ;-)
2008-03-12 19:39 < Messedrocker> Tony_Sidaway, remember when you came up with that new username for me?
2008-03-12 19:39 < Tony_Sidaway> "Pretending that there is no scientific debate on global warming is dishonest or stupid. You write too well for the latter, so that leaves me little choice as to a conclusion. I don't mind if you supply the liberal side of the political debate, though, but be careful not to engage in any politicization of science while you're here, or your stay will be a short one"
2008-03-12 19:39 < Tony_Sidaway> That's just the kind of thing Ed used to say here.
2008-03-12 19:39 < bumm13> indeed
2008-03-12 19:39 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: sorry no, I forgot all about that, if it ever happened.
2008-03-12 19:39 < Messedrocker> GLOBAL WARMING IS A MYTH OF LIBERAL JEWS. NOW EXCUSE ME WHILE I SHOOT SOME A-RABS FOR THEIR OIL
2008-03-12 19:39 < Messedrocker> Tony_Sidaway, you said "I will now call you Gently Preborn"
2008-03-12 19:40 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh nice one
2008-03-12 19:40 < Tony_Sidaway> I came up with that?
2008-03-12 19:40 < Cyrius> Tony_Sidaway: he shows up in here every few months for some reason
2008-03-12 19:40 < Messedrocker> yes, toner.
2008-03-12 19:40 < Messedrocker> hehe, i called you Toner
2008-03-12 19:40 < Tony_Sidaway> cool. I am fucking amazing sometimes. That's a real cute name
2008-03-12 19:40 * bumm13 consumes more liquid HFCS
2008-03-12 19:41 < Messedrocker> hooray!
2008-03-12 19:41 < privatemusings> i quite like toner....
2008-03-12 19:41 < Messedrocker> Toner Siderway
2008-03-12 19:41 < privatemusings> (both as a name, and as a useful consumable..)
2008-03-12 19:41 < privatemusings> (not that tony is consumable....)
2008-03-12 19:41 < privatemusings> (AFAIK)
2008-03-12 19:42 < Tony_Sidaway> "Toner" sounds like something you put in your printer.
2008-03-12 19:42 < bumm13> it does
2008-03-12 19:42 < Messedrocker> or, how about, instead of Gently_preborn, "Eclecticity Now!"
2008-03-12 19:42 < Cyrius> too similar to eclecticology
2008-03-12 19:42 < Tony_Sidaway> I made up an alternate username for me. Another culture ship name but this time an original one in the style of Iain M Banks
2008-03-12 19:43 < Tony_Sidaway> "Positively the last word in eschatology"
2008-03-12 19:43 < Tony_Sidaway> It sounds like on of those warships.
2008-03-12 19:43 < privatemusings> PTLWIE
2008-03-12 19:43 < Tony_Sidaway> Trips off the tongue
2008-03-12 19:43 < privatemusings> I WILT PE
2008-03-12 19:43 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh I made up another username!
2008-03-12 19:44 < Messedrocker> Kill Auntie Myrtle!
2008-03-12 19:44 < Tony_Sidaway> I like "Trips off the tongue"
2008-03-12 19:44 < Tony_Sidaway> People could call me Trips.
2008-03-12 19:44 < privatemusings> or tongy...
2008-03-12 19:44 < privatemusings> quite like them too!
2008-03-12 19:46 < privatemusings> did the wiki ever have separate Iain Banks and Iain M Banks articles?
2008-03-12 19:46 < privatemusings> that's the kind of thing that would make me smile!
2008-03-12 19:46 < Cyrius> let's find out!
2008-03-12 19:46 < privatemusings> doesn't look like it...
2008-03-12 19:46 < privatemusings> but maybe tony would know?
2008-03-12 19:47 < Cyrius> it did
2008-03-12 19:47 < Cyrius> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Iain_M._Banks&oldid=259009
2008-03-12 19:47 < privatemusings> oops - I didn't find that one...
2008-03-12 19:47 < Cyrius> old too
2008-03-12 19:48 < Gently_preborn> \o/
2008-03-12 19:48 < privatemusings> gently, I shall call you Dirk.....
2008-03-12 19:48 < Cyrius> first edit seems to be the not first edit
2008-03-12 19:48 < Cyrius> meaning it predates history storage
2008-03-12 19:48 < privatemusings> nice to see 'ol conversion script....
2008-03-12 19:48 < privatemusings> i wonder how he's doing in retirement?
2008-03-12 19:53 < Cyrius> I remember when he made a comeback for msg:
2008-03-12 20:07 * Hildanknight waves to Crazytales
2008-03-12 20:07 * Hildanknight waves to Ggreer
2008-03-12 20:09 * Hildanknight waves to Ceiling_Cat.
2008-03-12 20:22 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: How's the featured article edit wars?
2008-03-12 20:24 < Lubaf> ANYBODY HERE?
2008-03-12 20:24 < Lubaf> IS THE CHANNEL DEAD?
2008-03-12 20:24 < Lubaf> IF SO, CAN I CANNIBALIZE THE CORPSE?
2008-03-12 20:24 * Lubaf gets out his fork and knife.
2008-03-12 20:25 < Tony_Sidaway> eh oh
2008-03-12 20:25 < Tony_Sidaway> I was watching Torchwood again
2008-03-12 20:26 < Lubaf> Tony_Sidaway: That show about a bunch of bisexual skanky hos of both genders?
2008-03-12 20:28 < The359> they're omnisexual
2008-03-12 20:28 < The359> they have sex with aliens
2008-03-12 20:28 < gwern> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0312084kristen1.html <-- she's pretty attractive, but not worth losing a governorship over
2008-03-12 20:28 < gwern> unless she's *freaky* in bed
2008-03-12 20:29 < Messedrocker> she's a prostitute
2008-03-12 20:29 < The359> she's freaky for the right price
2008-03-12 20:29 < Gracenotes> [[hoker with a heart of gold]]
2008-03-12 20:29 < Gracenotes> *hooker
2008-03-12 20:29 < Tony_Sidaway> A courtesan, surely.
2008-03-12 20:29 < gwern> http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/0312084kristen5.html <-- third one's actually fairly cute
2008-03-12 20:30 < Tony_Sidaway> If America had a recognised courtesan class, a lot of these political scandals would simply evaporate.
2008-03-12 20:32 < placebo_effect> question
2008-03-12 20:32 < gwern> 'There is no way she's worth thousands of dollars an hour. For that kind of money the guy could have had a dream vacation in Thailand with more sex than humanly possible.' <-- gotta agree, but how could spitzer have made it out to thailand? it's notorious
2008-03-12 20:32 < Tony_Sidaway> placebo_effect: Answer: Only if he's been introduced to the duck first.
2008-03-12 20:32 < gwern> placebo_effect: no, that's a nonconcrete noun
2008-03-12 20:33 < placebo_effect> can I ask a question?
2008-03-12 20:33 < Tony_Sidaway> You just did
2008-03-12 20:33 < gwern> needless to say, the hooker is much hotter than his wife: http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/uploads/silda_spitzer_scandal.jpg
2008-03-12 20:33 < The359> I'm sure, who he is
2008-03-12 20:33 < gwern> placebo_effect: no
2008-03-12 20:33 < placebo_effect> what is the website where i can post a large ammount of text
2008-03-12 20:33 < The359> The price is increased as "hush hush" money
2008-03-12 20:33 < placebo_effect> a "text dump"
2008-03-12 20:33 < gwern> placebo_effect: now we need to execute you for breaking our rules about not asking questions
2008-03-12 20:33 < Tony_Sidaway> You get one question. That was it.
2008-03-12 20:33 < gwern> placebo_effect: wikisource?
2008-03-12 20:33 < placebo_effect> NO i am not going to post any IRC logs
2008-03-12 20:34 < Tony_Sidaway> You wikisource if it's on a free license
2008-03-12 20:34 < placebo_effect> itsnot something that is useable on wikisource
2008-03-12 20:34 < gwern> 'I wonder if she spitzer swallows?' <-- groan
2008-03-12 20:34 < Tony_Sidaway> placebo_effect: try wikia
2008-03-12 20:34 < Cyrius> gwern: she's not bad looking
2008-03-12 20:35 < Cyrius> not for 50, anyway
2008-03-12 20:35 < IceKarma> Tony_Sidaway, what do you know of Google Books and works that are PD by age?
2008-03-12 20:35 < Cyrius> 50 and 3 kids
2008-03-12 20:35 < gwern> IceKarma: that they are probably still PD by Corel v Bridheman?
2008-03-12 20:35 < Tony_Sidaway> IceKarma: I don't know anything about Google Books
2008-03-12 20:36 < Cyrius> I'd tend to agree with gwern
2008-03-12 20:36 < IceKarma> gwern, well, I bring it up because there's a particular work in Old French I'd like to transcribe and WikiSource
2008-03-12 20:36 < IceKarma> the work itself was written around 1100, and the edition I'm tentatively working from was published in 1826
2008-03-12 20:36 < Cyrius> although I'd spell Bridgeman correctly
2008-03-12 20:37 < gwern> Cyrius: irc mon
2008-03-12 20:37 < IceKarma> but Google have prepended a page with what amounts to a license, including gems such as "noncommercial use only"
2008-03-12 20:37 < gwern> wee kun speel lik thees lol on ICR
2008-03-12 20:37 < gwern> IceKarma: ok, EULAs make things trickier, I agree
2008-03-12 20:38 < Tony_Sidaway> Unless they're introduced something transformative, you have no problems.
2008-03-12 20:38 < gwern> IceKarma: I think I would argue that your retranscription is a noncommercial use, and that the EULA applied only to you; that downstream a third-party is using it commercially is neither your nor google's concern
2008-03-12 20:39 < gwern> IceKarma: since you never agreed to make sure all uses deriving from your use are also under the google EULA
2008-03-12 20:42 < gwern> "If only Heaven will give me just another ten years ... Just another five more years, then I could become a real painter."
2008-03-12 20:42 < gwern> [[Hokusai]] on his death bed
2008-03-12 20:43 < IceKarma> "DENIED."
2008-03-12 20:50 < IceKarma> gwern, yeah, on reading the terms again (now that I have Acrobat installed again) I think your interpretation is on the money. for whatever it's worth.
2008-03-12 20:59 < Tony_Sidaway> http://chronicle.com/blogs/footnoted/index.php?id=1852
2008-03-12 21:00 < tawker> Tony_Sidaway: it was an ok article
2008-03-12 21:02 * zocky thinks we should have an afd announcing bot in here
2008-03-12 21:03 < gwern> '(The exchange referenced was between two potential successors Shenxiu and Huineng. Shenxiu to demonstrate his mastery of Zen wrote the following poem: The body is the Bodhi Tree \ the mind like a clear mirror. \ Always wipe it clean, \ don't let it gather dust. Huineng retorted with Bodhi isn't a tree, \ what's clear isn't a mirror. \ Actually, there isn't a thing- \ where do you get this dust?)'
2008-03-12 21:03 < zocky> everybody says that afd gets too few people
2008-03-12 21:03 < zocky> and we all sit around here all day and complain about how wikipedia sucks
2008-03-12 21:03 < Cyrius> it'd never shut up
2008-03-12 21:04 < zocky> there were 130 afds yesterday
2008-03-12 21:04 < zocky> that would be 5-6 per hour on average
2008-03-12 21:04 < zocky> but yeah, this is #wikipedia, not #wikipedia-en
2008-03-12 21:05 < gwern> zocky: I think it's a good idea. dircbot probably adds as much spam
2008-03-12 21:05 < gwern> as for #wikipedia/#wikipedia-en - yeah, whatever
2008-03-12 21:06 < Tony_Sidaway> I used to worry abut good stuff being lost through AfD. This was in mid-2005. Then I did some sums and some observation, and realised this: AfD does not scale.
2008-03-12 21:06 < tawker> Tony_Sidaway: you don't say (deadpans)
2008-03-12 21:07 < Tony_Sidaway> YOu say there were 130 articles on AfD yesterday? Amazingly enough that's been about the same for three years now.
2008-03-12 21:07 < Tony_Sidaway> Sometmes goes up to 200, then goes down to 100, stays more or less in that zone.
2008-03-12 21:07 < Tony_Sidaway> Meanwhile new article creation has gone through the roof in the same period
2008-03-12 21:08 < Tony_Sidaway> Last I checked, raw deletion rate wasn't keeping up with article starts either.
2008-03-12 21:08 < gwern> article creation has been decling, hasn't it?
2008-03-12 21:08 < Tony_Sidaway> gwern: {{fact}}
2008-03-12 21:08 < Cyrius> I think it hit the linear part of the s-curve
2008-03-12 21:09 < Tony_Sidaway> Eventually you run out of non-hits in namespace, I suppose.
2008-03-12 21:13 < Cyrius> low hanging fruit and all
2008-03-12 21:13 < Messedrocker> *blink*
2008-03-12 21:13 < Messedrocker> that phrase has suddenly become dirty to me
2008-03-12 21:13 < Messedrocker> even though i saw it as innocuous before
2008-03-12 21:13 * gwern executes the forbidden strike, 'monkey grabs two fruit!'
2008-03-12 21:16 < IceKarma> gwern, I get the feeling that neither one of those poems translates very well.
2008-03-12 21:16 < gwern> IceKarma: it's much funnier if you're a buddhist, I suppose
2008-03-12 21:17 < gwern> chinese poetry is a bit of an acquired taste; although I suppose it could just be that it's too hard to translate (Japanese poems seem to do fine tho)
2008-03-12 21:18 < IceKarma> gwern, eh. pro-drop language meets deliberately-obscure literary style...
2008-03-12 21:18 < gwern> the real bad thing for a WPer about chinese poetry is how everyone has short nmaes, and each name has a bazillion romanizations
2008-03-12 21:19 < gwern> '[1] Marc Etkind, ".....or Not to Be : A Collection of Suicide Notes", New York, Riverhead Books (Berkley Publishing), 1997 ' <-- sounds like an interesting read
2008-03-12 21:19 < Autocracy> gwern, Messedrocker, anybody else i recognize that i don't know if they're on... good evening...
2008-03-12 21:20 < zocky> hey, afd is being not totally useless
2008-03-12 21:20 < gwern> presumably Etkind is the editor, not the author(s)...
2008-03-12 21:20 < Messedrocker> hi autocracy
2008-03-12 21:20 < gwern> zocky: WRONG! Fail AFD is fail!
2008-03-12 21:20 < zocky> some guy nominated a bunch of chinese artists for deletion, and there are practically no delete votes on them
2008-03-12 21:21 < Autocracy> zocky: no, it is fail
2008-03-12 21:22 < Autocracy> wonder if there is a "wikihate" meter to go with the "wikistress" meter
2008-03-12 21:22 < Cyrius> lulz for deletion
2008-03-12 21:25 * gwern finds this picture relevant to this thread my interests... ah, whatever - http://icanhascheezburger.com/2008/03/12/funny-pictures-this-thread-is-relavent-to-my-interests/
2008-03-12 21:27 < Cyrius> gwern: om nom nom
2008-03-12 21:27 < Ceogar> damnit Cyrius now i got hungry!
2008-03-12 21:28 < Cyrius> sorry
2008-03-12 21:28 * Cyrius gives Ceogar a cookie
2008-03-12 21:28 < gwern> 'had I not known / I was dead / already / I would have mourned / the loss of my life'
2008-03-12 21:30 < gwern> 'Pampas grass, now dry, \ once bent this way / and that'
2008-03-12 21:32 < Cyrius> pampas grass is an odd plant
2008-03-12 21:32 < Cyrius> grows well here, but doesn't seem to spread
2008-03-12 21:34 < zocky> hehe, someone !voted "keep per zocky's reasoning", and I didn't offer any reasoning :)
2008-03-12 21:35 < Messedrocker> maybe that was their point
2008-03-12 21:35 < Myxomatosian> reasoning
2008-03-12 21:36 < zocky> Messedrocker, possibly. i didn't think any reasoning was reaquired, and probably this other user didn't think so either
2008-03-12 21:36 < Messedrocker> no i'm saying they were being ironic
2008-03-12 21:36 < zocky> i voted "Keep and butt out of people's user pages. Geez."
2008-03-12 21:37 < Messedrocker> that's actually reasoning
2008-03-12 21:37 < Messedrocker> implied reasoning, anyways
2008-03-12 21:37 < Mike_H> yay, I work for a TV station now :>>>
2008-03-12 21:37 < Messedrocker> \o/
2008-03-12 21:37 < Messedrocker> and /o\
2008-03-12 21:37 < Mike_H> hah
2008-03-12 21:38 < Messedrocker> Mike_H, are you part of the wikipedia blogging scene
2008-03-12 21:38 < gwern> A samurai once asked Zen Master Hakuin where he would go after he died.
2008-03-12 21:38 < gwern> Hakuin answered “How am I supposed to know?”
2008-03-12 21:38 < gwern> “How do you know? You’re a Zen master!” exclaimed the samurai.
2008-03-12 21:38 < gwern> “Yes, but not a dead one,” Hakuin answered.
2008-03-12 21:38 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: I only use the Wikinews Reports blog
2008-03-12 21:38 < Mike_H> to post my interviews and such
2008-03-12 21:38 < Messedrocker> ok
2008-03-12 21:39 < Mike_H> I work for a TV station :DDDDD
2008-03-12 21:39 < Mike_H> I never thought this would happen
2008-03-12 21:39 < Mike_H> so happy
2008-03-12 21:44 < Ceiling_Cat> "The Catholic Church is sack-tickling its way into bankruptcy"
2008-03-12 21:44 * Ceiling_Cat lulz
2008-03-12 21:45 < zocky> Ceiling_Cat, where I live, they're the richest entity
2008-03-12 21:45 < Gracenotes> they did pretty well during feudalism... >.>
2008-03-12 21:46 < Ceiling_Cat> zocky - the boston diocese declared bankrupty to protect themselves from all the people suiing
2008-03-12 21:47 < quanticle> zocky: You live in Italy?
2008-03-12 21:47 < zocky> quanticle, slovenia
2008-03-12 21:47 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases#Bankruptcy
2008-03-12 21:47 < quanticle> zocky: Ah. Yeah, the Catholic church is pretty rich in E. Europe as well...
2008-03-12 21:48 < zocky> they had a bunch of nationalized stuff returned to them, plus a bunch of stuff that wasn't really legally theirs since the 18th century
2008-03-12 21:48 < Luna-San> Interesting. o.o I read something the other day about an internal report saying that abuse reports were down, but that settlement payouts were hitting record highs. Coincidence?
2008-03-12 21:48 < zocky> but the first post-communist government was very friendly to them, as is the current one
2008-03-12 21:48 * zocky can't wait for elections in october
2008-03-12 21:50 < zocky> Ceiling_Cat, i don't think they've paid any money for sex abuse here yet. there were a bunch of scandals, and one priest got some prison time, and another died before the trial, but it was just criminal trials against them personally
2008-03-12 21:51 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: I work for a TV station now
2008-03-12 21:51 < Mike_H> it's official as of tonight
2008-03-12 21:51 < zocky> Mike_H, doing what?
2008-03-12 21:52 < gwern> zocky: summarizing soap operas, probably
2008-03-12 21:52 < zocky> that would be a great job for mike, if anybody wanted to pay him for it
2008-03-12 21:53 < Mike_H> zocky: I'm writing about restaurants and bars/nightclubs
2008-03-12 21:53 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - congrats!
2008-03-12 21:53 < Mike_H> for a website associated with the TV station
2008-03-12 21:53 < zocky> cool
2008-03-12 21:53 * Ceiling_Cat clap-claps for Mike_H
2008-03-12 21:53 < bumm13> nice :-)
2008-03-12 21:53 < bumm13> congrats
2008-03-12 21:54 < Mike_H> so now I can't ever edit this article again
2008-03-12 21:54 < Mike_H> WTSP, "Tampa Bay's 10" is a CBS-affiliate television station on the west coast of Florida (Tampa?St. Petersburg DMA 13). It broadcasts its analog signal on VHF channel 10, and its digital signal on UHF channel 24. Its transmitter is located in Holiday, Florida.
2008-03-12 21:54 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - it's looking very likely that I'll be moving to the dirty, dirty south for the summer ;)
2008-03-12 21:54 < Mike_H> because I have a COI :DD
2008-03-12 21:54 < bumm13> t
2008-03-12 21:54 < Ceiling_Cat> My advisor has hooked me up with a job working for [[Thomas Sterling (computing)]]
2008-03-12 21:54 < Ceiling_Cat> The guy who invened beowulf computer clusters
2008-03-12 21:54 < Mike_H> ew, LSU
2008-03-12 21:54 < Ceiling_Cat> invented*
2008-03-12 21:55 * gwern wonders if anyone can be said to have invented a natural thing to do when you have a bunch of commodity computers
2008-03-12 21:56 < Ceiling_Cat> gwern - huh? A "natural" thing to do?
2008-03-12 21:56 < Cyrius> it's not the idea of doing it, it's the implementation
2008-03-12 21:59 < gwern> somehow, I doubt nobody ever made a beowulf cluster before '98 or whenever sterling wrote his howto
2008-03-12 22:02 < Cyrius> there was a cluster that got a sorting record in 1996
2008-03-12 22:03 < Cyrius> but beowulf seems to be the first to make the nodes act as part of a single machine
2008-03-12 22:05 < Cyrius> heh, VAXcluster in 1983
2008-03-12 22:14 < quanticle> gwern: Beowulf cluster - its the obvious thing to do. Don't know if its "natural" though.
2008-03-12 22:15 < Ceiling_Cat> MOAR CATZ!
2008-03-12 22:15 < quanticle> No.
2008-03-12 22:15 * Ceiling_Cat glues ears, whiskers, and a tail on quanticle
2008-03-12 22:15 * quanticle is not in the mood to go Schrodinger_Cat
2008-03-12 22:15 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Also, how can you glue stuff on me when you don't know where I am?
2008-03-12 22:16 * Ceiling_Cat can see you always
2008-03-12 22:16 * privatemusings thinks quanticle looks funny with ears, whiskers, and a tail.
2008-03-12 22:16 * Ceiling_Cat knows your shame
2008-03-12 22:16 < privatemusings> my shame? now where did I leave it?
2008-03-12 22:16 < quanticle> privatemusings: You left it in a crumpled heap on the shoulder of the information superhighway
2008-03-12 22:17 < privatemusings> dammit... now I'll have to get another one....
2008-03-12 22:26 < privatemusings> is admin coren around?
2008-03-12 22:27 * privatemusings notices coren just indef blocked mantanmoreland
2008-03-12 22:27 * privatemusings wishes to remove buns from all wikipedians immeidately.....
2008-03-12 22:27 * privatemusings enacts a temporary bun ban.
2008-03-12 22:31 < Ceiling_Cat> "If I had a nickle for every time I was wrong, I'd be broke" - Stephen Colbert
2008-03-12 22:33 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cmonjews.jpg
2008-03-12 22:33 < Mike_H> privatemusings: Coren went to bed.
2008-03-12 22:33 < Ceiling_Cat> OH SWEET!
2008-03-12 22:33 < Ceiling_Cat> MSNBC cancelled Tucker Carlson!
2008-03-12 22:33 < Mike_H> Tucker Carlson is so gross
2008-03-12 22:33 < Mike_H> I can't even imagine having sex with him
2008-03-12 22:33 < Mike_H> he'd keep his bow tie on
2008-03-12 22:34 < Ceiling_Cat> he's a douche, and an idiot
2008-03-12 22:34 < privatemusings> is he one of the guys that jon stewart gave a hard time to on telly?
2008-03-12 22:34 < Ceiling_Cat> yes
2008-03-12 22:35 < privatemusings> that was a great piece of tv...
2008-03-12 22:35 < Ceiling_Cat> Jon Stewart demolished him
2008-03-12 22:35 < Ceiling_Cat> and crossfire (that show) was cancelled shortly thereafter
2008-03-12 22:35 < The359> yeah
2008-03-12 22:35 < privatemusings> it actually made you feel sorry for them a little...
2008-03-12 22:35 < privatemusings> but not too much... ;-)
2008-03-12 22:35 < The359> he was the one who suggested Stewart should take more responsibility with reporting the news
2008-03-12 22:35 < The359> because his show had more viewers than Crossfire
2008-03-12 22:36 < Ceiling_Cat> to which stewart replied that he's a comedy show, and that the show that preceeds his is puppets making crank calls
2008-03-12 22:36 < The359> yep
2008-03-12 22:37 < NotACow> moo
2008-03-12 22:38 < The359> Carlson has also made polemic remarks about Canada, describing Canadians as being very "brittle." "Anybody with any ambition at all, or intelligence, has left Canada and is now living in New York," he has said.
2008-03-12 22:38 < The359> "Canada is a sweet country. It is like your retarded cousin you see at Thanksgiving and sort of pat him on the head. You know, he's nice but you don't take him seriously. That's Canada."[14]
2008-03-12 22:38 < The359> Genius!
2008-03-12 22:45 < Ceiling_Cat> 03:36 Trapped in the Closet (South Park) (diff; hist) . . (+5) . . Raul654 (Talk | contribs | block) (Verbs, dammit, verbs...)
2008-03-12 22:45 < The359> My kingdom for a verb!
2008-03-12 22:46 < FastLizard4|Food> When verbs ATTACK!!
2008-03-12 22:46 < gwern> verbing weirds nouns
2008-03-12 22:46 * bumm13 can't quite think of the demographic that Crank Yankers is intended to target...
2008-03-12 22:47 < The359> I've never trusted verbs, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my boy.
2008-03-12 22:47 < bumm13> 12-year-old boys? :P
2008-03-12 22:49 < Ceiling_Cat> bumm - that's better known as the catholic church demographic
2008-03-12 22:49 * Ceiling_Cat ducks
2008-03-12 22:49 < Ceiling_Cat> (bah-dum-ding)
2008-03-12 22:51 < bumm13> :P
2008-03-12 22:51 < bumm13> Ceiling_Cat: it's a tough crowd, but you'll be here all week ;)
2008-03-12 22:54 < Ceiling_Cat> http://briansp.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/cthulhu4prez.jpg
2008-03-12 22:59 < zocky> wow, today's FA manages to talk a lot about the K-T extinction, and barely mention the impact theory in the intro
2008-03-12 22:59 < zocky> alvarez is first mentioned in section 4.1
2008-03-12 23:00 < Pilotguy> zocky- You surprised by this because...
2008-03-12 23:00 < zocky> Pilotguy, i generally expect FAs to make sense
2008-03-12 23:00 < Pilotguy> zocky- hah!
2008-03-12 23:01 < Pilotguy> zocky- Like there's anything about Wikipedia that makes sense.
2008-03-12 23:03 < Pilotguy> yee
2008-03-12 23:04 < Pilotguy> !admin I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGER?!?
2008-03-12 23:04 < Luna-San> No. You cannot.
2008-03-12 23:04 < tawker> Pilotguy: you are cleared to stop abusing !admin
2008-03-12 23:04 < tawker> seriously
2008-03-12 23:04 * Pilotguy eats tawker
2008-03-12 23:05 < amidanie1> God I hate technology
2008-03-12 23:05 < amidanie1> Has anyone seen how freaking cheap DDR3 is these days?
2008-03-12 23:05 * amidanie1 stabs
2008-03-12 23:06 < bumm13> cheap, as in price?
2008-03-12 23:06 < amidanie1> Yes
2008-03-12 23:06 < bumm13> why does that make you hate technology?
2008-03-12 23:06 < amidanie1> Because I could have a really fricken bitchin computer for half the price of the one I just built a few months ago
2008-03-12 23:06 < amidanie1> And that pisses me off
2008-03-12 23:06 < bumm13> well, that's how it works
2008-03-12 23:07 < bumm13> at least you aren't paying early 90s prices for PCs (or earlier)
2008-03-12 23:07 < zocky> yes, there was a time when 1000 euros was the normal price for a desktop
2008-03-12 23:07 < zocky> quite a long time
2008-03-12 23:07 < zocky> most of the 1990s
2008-03-12 23:08 < bumm13> even back when euros didn't exist :-)
2008-03-12 23:08 < zocky> they were called ecus at the time
2008-03-12 23:08 < zocky> and they didn't exist as actual money, of course
2008-03-12 23:08 < amidanie1> What is the "normal" price for a desktop these days?
2008-03-12 23:09 < amidanie1> Oh, apparently I had success O.o
2008-03-12 23:09 < Lycurgus> half the price just due to memory?
2008-03-12 23:09 < amidaniel> Lycurgus: Well, that's not the only thing that's cheaper :)
2008-03-12 23:10 < zocky> amidaniel, ~400 - 600 euros here
2008-03-12 23:10 < Lycurgus> actually machines seem to have stagnated lately compared to the situation up till about '04
2008-03-12 23:10 < amidaniel> Hmm .. yeah, I've never been much of a "normal" desktop person, I suppose :))
2008-03-12 23:11 < Lycurgus> performance wise anyway
2008-03-12 23:11 < amidaniel> Lycurgus: Yeah, but the prices are falling like mad
2008-03-12 23:11 < amidaniel> $250 for an intel core 2 quad clocked at 2.4GHz ...
2008-03-12 23:11 < Lycurgus> machines I bought in '05 are still top of the line. It used to be 3 years was enough to make that not so.
2008-03-12 23:12 < zocky> my computer was 550 ~18 months ago, and it wasn't bad at all at the time, and works perfectly fine now
2008-03-12 23:12 < Demi> are we just talking about the computer?
2008-03-12 23:12 < zocky> Lycurgus, yeah, I used to buy new computers every 2 years, now it's more like 3-4
2008-03-12 23:12 < bumm13> I paid $305 (with shipping) for my current PC
2008-03-12 23:13 < bumm13> but that might be a bit on the low side for price (it's a Pentium 4, so not so recent)
2008-03-12 23:13 < amidaniel> P4's are still about the best single core processors you can get
2008-03-12 23:13 < amidaniel> And at $15 a pop, might as well :))
2008-03-12 23:13 < zocky> you can get a half-decent sub-notebook for 300 euros these days
2008-03-12 23:14 < bumm13> in fact, I've had this computer almost a year now :)
2008-03-12 23:14 < zocky> zomg, you can get it for 300 USD
2008-03-12 23:14 < zocky> they're ripping us off again
2008-03-12 23:14 < amidaniel> hehe
2008-03-12 23:16 < Ceiling_Cat> lulz
2008-03-12 23:16 < Ceiling_Cat> "Little boy - have you been having unprotected anal sex?'
2008-03-12 23:16 < Ceiling_Cat> - South Park
2008-03-12 23:16 < zocky> i was talking with friends the other day, and we decided that in ten years, your home computer will look like the mosquito thing that you plug into the wall
2008-03-12 23:17 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-12 23:17 < amidaniel> Yup
2008-03-12 23:17 < bumm13> form factors have gotten smaller for many systems
2008-03-12 23:17 < amidaniel> In ten years my cell phone will have more processing power than the computer I'm sitting at right now :)
2008-03-12 23:18 < zocky> and you don't need internal hard disks any more
2008-03-12 23:18 < amidaniel> At least, assuming our economy doesn't collapse completely :D
2008-03-12 23:18 < bumm13> gas prices just keep skyrocketing (I know, still cheaper in the U.S. but still...)
2008-03-12 23:18 < Mike2> i'm pretty sure the most recent revisions to this page were just deleted http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Permian%E2%80%93Triassic_extinction_event&action=history
2008-03-12 23:19 < zocky> bumm13, everybody will be driving on compressed air in 10 years
2008-03-12 23:19 < bumm13> cute
2008-03-12 23:21 < bumm13> we'll see how the compressed air tech takes off in the land of Big Oil ;p
2008-03-12 23:21 < Lycurgus> B<
2008-03-12 23:22 < Lycurgus> (my contribution to the compressed air effort)
2008-03-12 23:22 < Ceiling_Cat> THIS IS SPARTA!
2008-03-12 23:30 < Geoff_Plourde> why doesn't WP have a Community Ombuds Dept?
2008-03-12 23:33 < Lycurgus> it has something analogous which if you wait long enough, someone here will tell you about
2008-03-12 23:37 < Geoff_Plourde> really?
2008-03-12 23:38 < Luna-San> What would such a group do?
2008-03-12 23:39 < Casull> Excuse me, is there an administrator on? I'd like to request two articles that I've accidentally created to be deleted
2008-03-12 23:39 < Geoff_Plourde> basically it would be a place where users could bring complaints about officials
2008-03-12 23:40 < Geoff_Plourde> and serve as a neutral third party in conflicts between groups
2008-03-12 23:40 < Lycurgus> yes. WP is basically an american institution so it's typcoon led, etc. etc.
2008-03-12 23:40 < Lycurgus> *tycoon
2008-03-12 23:40 < Geoff_Plourde> working to resolve the underlying issues
2008-03-12 23:40 < Luna-San> Casull: If you're the only editor, you can mark them with {{db-author}}
2008-03-12 23:40 < Geoff_Plourde> questions?
2008-03-12 23:41 < Casull> Ah okay
2008-03-12 23:41 < Casull> Thanks
2008-03-12 23:41 < Luna-San> Geoff_Plourde: But that presumes the existence of superusers, and/or that those superusers would reliably be neutral and avoid getting into disputes themselves, doesn't it?
2008-03-12 23:42 < Luna-San> There's also the important issue of scaling.
2008-03-12 23:42 < Geoff_Plourde> no
2008-03-12 23:42 < Geoff_Plourde> not superusers
2008-03-12 23:43 < Geoff_Plourde> just volunteers
2008-03-12 23:44 < Geoff_Plourde> and the users would be impartial
2008-03-12 23:44 < Geoff_Plourde> if we don't have any impartial users floating around
2008-03-12 23:44 < Geoff_Plourde> then we need to can MedCom
2008-03-12 23:45 < Geoff_Plourde> address the concern?
2008-03-12 23:45 < gwern> 'my coming was like / everyone else's; / why did I ever think my going / would be any different?'
2008-03-12 23:45 * Ceiling_Cat huggles gwern_cat
2008-03-12 23:46 < Luna-San> Perhaps, but it's awfully general; most of the problems I worry about would arise at run-time, if you will.
2008-03-12 23:46 * gwern notes sadly that Ceiling_Cat is hallucinating the existence of gwern_cat
2008-03-12 23:46 < Geoff_Plourde> what problems do you foresee?
2008-03-12 23:46 < Luna-San> It's easy enough to say "we have an impartial mediating body," but a monumental task unto itself to make sure said body is in fact anything approaching neutral.
2008-03-12 23:47 < Lycurgus> neutrality in meat space is a myth
2008-03-12 23:47 < gwern> '
2008-03-12 23:47 < gwern> Link here for a hilarious thread of some of America's smartest lawyers trying to decipher a Supreme Court opinion and decide whether it breaks one of De Morgan's Laws -- not (A or B) = not A and not B (where the "or" is inclusive). It may depend on what the meaning of "or" is.'
2008-03-12 23:48 < gwern> http://volokh.com/posts/1205277114.shtml <-- it's hilarious for those of a legal logical bent, I suppose
2008-03-12 23:48 < Luna-San> Heh. That's one problem with lengthy prose decisions, I s'pose.
2008-03-12 23:48 < gwern> 'This is the problem of having someone with a math and CS degree teaching law. I would suspect that if Justice Brennan had been faced with DeMorgan's Law, he likely respond "Huh?"'
2008-03-12 23:49 < gwern> Luna-San: the exclusive/inclusive or amgiuity is oft a problem
2008-03-12 23:49 < Geoff_Plourde> impartiality would assured by giving cases to neutral volunteers
2008-03-12 23:49 < gwern> Geoff_Plourde: a nice regress. we can acheive impartiality by giving cases to impartial people...
2008-03-12 23:49 < Geoff_Plourde> they would have no power
2008-03-12 23:50 < Lycurgus> correctness and accuracy would be the actual desired characteristics but as stated the political and cultural basis for that is missing
2008-03-12 23:50 < Luna-San> A mediating body with no power is only useful if people are already cooperating, in which case they may not need a strong mediator.
2008-03-12 23:51 < gwern> ' Captain DeMorgan's Theorem: After enough shots, ∨s look like ∧s and vice-versa.' <-- lols
2008-03-12 23:52 < Geoff_Plourde> Let me rephrase
2008-03-12 23:52 < Geoff_Plourde> the power would not be large
2008-03-12 23:52 < Geoff_Plourde> and could be revoked easily
2008-03-12 23:54 < Geoff_Plourde> all they could do is compel others
2008-03-12 23:54 < Geoff_Plourde> scratch that
2008-03-12 23:54 * ruoFdraziLtsaF is now going to bed, good night!
2008-03-12 23:54 < Geoff_Plourde> investigate and intervene
2008-03-12 23:54 < Geoff_Plourde> Buenas Nochas El Senor!
2008-03-12 23:55 * ruoFdraziLtsaF speaks French, not Spanish :P
2008-03-12 23:55 < Geoff_Plourde> Au Revoir! M'sieur!
2008-03-12 23:55 < ruoFdraziLtsaF> heh
2008-03-12 23:56 < ruoFdraziLtsaF> Au revoir, à demain!
2008-03-12 23:56 < gwern> 'this day of my going / is just a day. / Before now, I had thought / the day of my coming / a day unlike any other'
2008-03-12 23:56 < Mole2> He, when I first tried to join this channel I got forwarded to #wikipedia-overflow . But this channel doesn't look that full.
2008-03-12 23:56 < gwern> ruoFdraziLtsaF: d'accord...
2008-03-12 23:56 < ruoFdraziLtsaF> o_O
2008-03-12 23:56 * gwern chomps on some surrender-cheese. deliciously yellow!
2008-03-12 23:56 < Lubaf> That's right, away you go!
2008-03-12 23:57 < Luna-San> Mole2: If several people try to join at once, you may be throttled into overflow. It's a tricky formula.
2008-03-12 23:57 < TheWeasel> it's odd when people write "X is a station in the eponymous town of X"
2008-03-12 23:57 < Mole2> Luna-San: Ah, I see. Thanks.
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> Gwern - the french fought hard in world war II. Just never against the germans
2008-03-12 23:58 < gwern> Luna-San: not tricky at all. it merely involves a repeated fraction of gay niggers from north america over a denominator of #wikipedia
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> But anytime the allies needed to occupy a french colony, the french fought like hell
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> in Syria
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> Algeria
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> Tunis
2008-03-12 23:58 < Ceiling_Cat> etc
2008-03-12 23:58 * Mole2 leans back and feels soooo nice after publishing his brand new shiny how-to page at en.wikipedia. :))
2008-03-12 23:58 < TheWeasel> they did fight hard, but they were brought down by utter lack of preparedness
2008-03-12 23:58 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: I'm educated enough to know that the popular delusion of france as militarily inept is bogus
2008-03-12 23:58 < Luna-San> gwern: Nono, I mean the +J x,y bit of it. I forget which param means what, and it's never tinkered with in here anyway, sooooo eh
2008-03-12 23:59 < gwern> I mean, the French Foreign Legion alone is cool enough
2008-03-12 23:59 < Ceiling_Cat> gwern - well, they haven't won a battle in 200 years ;)
2008-03-12 23:59 < TheWeasel> Wow, close call
2008-03-13 00:00 < TheWeasel> Jena-Auerstädt, 1806
2008-03-13 00:00 < Ceiling_Cat> (note: they did win a few during the french indochina war, but mostly that was because Vo Nygyen Giap kept overrunning his supply lines)
2008-03-13 00:00 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: they really haven't needed to. they did well enough in wwI, wwII was really just bad luck on their half, and since then america's had their back
2008-03-13 00:00 < gwern> and as for vietnam - did america do as well proportionate to the resources we poured in?
2008-03-13 00:00 < Ceiling_Cat> the US won all the battles in Vietnam
2008-03-13 00:00 < Ceiling_Cat> the French did not
2008-03-13 00:00 < TheWeasel> meh, trollage
2008-03-13 00:00 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: another such victory, and we are lost...
2008-03-13 00:01 < Ceiling_Cat> in fact, from about 1951 onwards french defeat was basically inevitable
2008-03-13 00:01 < TheWeasel> But France did receive an unusual amount of well-prepared hostility
2008-03-13 00:01 < TheWeasel> almost exclusively from Germany
2008-03-13 00:01 < Ceiling_Cat> actually, if the US wanted to, we could have beaten the vietnamese
2008-03-13 00:01 < Ceiling_Cat> if we had bombed the levies in north vietnam, we would have won
2008-03-13 00:02 < Ceiling_Cat> of course, it would have put Hanoi under about 12 feet of water and drowned over 100,000 people
2008-03-13 00:02 < gwern> a pyrrhic victory is no victory
2008-03-13 00:02 < TheWeasel> A victory where you have nothing left to govern is a de iure victory
2008-03-13 00:02 < TheWeasel> :-/
2008-03-13 00:03 < Ceiling_Cat> also, the mining of haiphong took too long
2008-03-13 00:03 < Demi> hm, i just experienced a bug in a program because i misspelled "dispatch" as "dipshit".
2008-03-13 00:03 < Ceiling_Cat> it we had mined Haiphonh in 1967 instead of 1972, the war would have been ended much sooner
2008-03-13 00:03 < Ceiling_Cat> Haipong*
2008-03-13 00:03 < gwern> Demi: an easy mistake. I mean, the keys are right next to each other
2008-03-13 00:03 < Ceiling_Cat> Haiphong*
2008-03-13 00:03 < Geoff_Plourde> unfortunately yes
2008-03-13 00:03 < Demi> i'm obviously used to typing one more than the other!
2008-03-13 00:04 < TheWeasel> "In Europe, post-Napoleonic France remained a powerful force in continental affairs, inflicting a defeat on the Habsburgs in the Franco-Austrian War of 1859, a defeat which led to the unification of Italy in 1861, after having triumphed over Russia with other allies in the Crimean War..."
2008-03-13 00:04 < TheWeasel> asf.
2008-03-13 00:04 < TheWeasel> It's in Wikipedia, it must be true.
2008-03-13 00:04 * gwern go bed now
2008-03-13 00:10 < Ceiling_Cat> you know, our coverage of article is really pathetic
2008-03-13 00:10 < Ceiling_Cat> erm
2008-03-13 00:10 < Ceiling_Cat> of art
2008-03-13 00:10 < Ceiling_Cat> as in, paintings
2008-03-13 00:21 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:ACF_Regionals_answers&curid=2257473&diff=197899967&oldid=197898610
2008-03-13 00:21 < Ceiling_Cat> FUCK
2008-03-13 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> ACF lit is so obscure
2008-03-13 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Li_Xingdao <-- this just about says it all
2008-03-13 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> they are asking about a work (article does not exist) from an author with exactly one main name space link
2008-03-13 00:23 < TheWeasel> New Jersey is densely populated state (...)
2008-03-13 00:23 < TheWeasel> THE RUSSIANS HAVE ARRIVED IN NJ!
2008-03-13 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> New Jersey is the most densly populated state
2008-03-13 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> followed by Rhode Island and Delaware
2008-03-13 00:24 < TheWeasel> I only noticed the missing grammatical article
2008-03-13 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_population_density
2008-03-13 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> correction: delaware is only #7
2008-03-13 00:25 < tawker> gah
2008-03-13 00:47 < Hildanknight> Does anyone here think the Featured Topic criteria are insane and we should have Good Topics as well?
2008-03-13 00:57 < Lycurgus> it's not on the front page is it?
2008-03-13 00:57 < Lycurgus> or did you mean Featured Article or Portal?
2008-03-13 00:57 * Krimpet thinks we need Bad Topics