freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-11 17:08 < Demi> ericsson has not counted on the u.s. cell phone network
2008-03-11 17:08 < Demi> i do find it kind of irritating that *for-pay* wifi hotspots exist
2008-03-11 17:08 * nsh assigns this story 16 dogs of cynicism
2008-03-11 17:08 < Lucifer_Cat> Ceiling_Cat: ewww
2008-03-11 17:08 < nsh> control control control control
2008-03-11 17:08 < nsh> money money money
2008-03-11 17:08 < nsh> power power
2008-03-11 17:08 < nsh> evil.
2008-03-11 17:09 < Lucifer_Cat> 42
2008-03-11 17:09 < Lucifer_Cat> .
2008-03-11 17:09 < Lucifer_Cat> i dunno how it showed up on your screen but on chatzilla, its a nice inverted triangle
2008-03-11 17:10 * nsh smiles
2008-03-11 17:11 * brown_cat licks that smile off nsh
2008-03-11 17:12 < emet> is it possible to get IP contribs to be assigned to my user account?
2008-03-11 17:12 < miranda> emet: no not really...
2008-03-11 17:13 < miranda> emet: you can say that you edit via this IP for your contribs to be attributed
2008-03-11 17:13 < miranda> like link to it from your page
2008-03-11 17:13 < Backifran> hello
2008-03-11 17:13 < Backifran> how do I report a copyright stolen image?
2008-03-11 17:14 < Backifran> someone has taken an image I made and re-uploading it releasing the copyright
2008-03-11 17:14 < Backifran> reuploaded*
2008-03-11 17:15 < miranda> Backifran: where's the image? can you give us a link?
2008-03-11 17:15 < Backifran> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bussticket.jpg
2008-03-11 17:15 < Demi> Backifran - check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CP#Copyright_owners
2008-03-11 17:15 < cctoide> :o
2008-03-11 17:15 < cctoide> Backifran?
2008-03-11 17:16 < Backifran> yes?
2008-03-11 17:16 < miranda> Backifran: it's hosted on wikimedia commons, you might want to go to #wikimedia-commons to tell them to delete it, or contact OTRS
2008-03-11 17:16 < Backifran> okay thanks alot
2008-03-11 17:16 < cctoide> Um... not from RP?
2008-03-11 17:17 < Backifran> yes that would be right
2008-03-11 17:17 < cctoide> Ah
2008-03-11 17:18 < nsh> http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/worlds-oldest-animation-5200-years-old/
2008-03-11 17:18 < nsh> awesome
2008-03-11 17:24 < nsh> http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/11/fallon.resigns/
2008-03-11 17:24 < nsh> this does not bode well
2008-03-11 17:26 < Some_Person> What copyright tag should I use for an image with no copyright status?
2008-03-11 17:26 < nsh> {{mine!}}
2008-03-11 17:26 < Some_Person> But I am not the creator
2008-03-11 17:26 < nsh> or, there's probably a "copyright status unknown" or some nonsense
2008-03-11 17:26 < nsh> i would just assume it's public domain
2008-03-11 17:26 < Some_Person> It's not unknown, it doesn't exist
2008-03-11 17:27 < nsh> then it's public domain
2008-03-11 17:27 < nsh> copyright law is exclusive not inclusive
2008-03-11 17:27 < nsh> someone has to have a claim on copyright otherwise there is no copyright
2008-03-11 17:28 < Some_Person> So what tag should I use?
2008-03-11 17:28 < miranda> Some_Person: might want to look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Fair_use_rationale_guideline#Speedy_deletion
2008-03-11 17:29 < Some_Person> FUR only applies to copyrighted images
2008-03-11 17:29 < nsh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_copyright_tags/Public_domain
2008-03-11 17:29 * nsh shoots miranda a dirty look
2008-03-11 17:29 < miranda> you said that the image didn't have a copyright status
2008-03-11 17:30 < shimgray> it has to have been created
2008-03-11 17:30 < miranda> ah ok
2008-03-11 17:30 < shimgray> someone has to have been the author
2008-03-11 17:30 < Some_Person> It was created by my school
2008-03-11 17:30 < Demi> "nsh: someone has to have a claim on copyright otherwise there is no copyright" <- that is incorrect
2008-03-11 17:30 < Some_Person> I don't know who exactly
2008-03-11 17:30 < shimgray> unless that author is incapable of claiming copyright, there is a rightsholder
2008-03-11 17:30 < shimgray> Some_Person: Then someone owns the rights, and they're not you
2008-03-11 17:30 * nsh growls
2008-03-11 17:30 < nsh> you're incorrect
2008-03-11 17:30 < Some_Person> So what tag do I put?
2008-03-11 17:31 < Demi> this whole court is out of order!
2008-03-11 17:31 < nsh> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Images_with_unknown_copyright_status
2008-03-11 17:31 < shimgray> you don't tag it, because you don't upload it, because it isn't a freely-licensed image.
2008-03-11 17:31 * nsh growls harder
2008-03-11 17:31 < miranda> nsh: yep that link :-D
2008-03-11 17:32 < nsh> you guys have turned into such pansies over the last couple of years it's appalling
2008-03-11 17:32 < Some_Person> i hate the whole every-image-must-be-tagged dealy.
2008-03-11 17:33 < Demi> then you hate copyright law, to which i say, good for you and join the club
2008-03-11 17:33 < Demi> (i hope there are some tasty snacks at this club)
2008-03-11 17:33 < nsh> hear hear
2008-03-11 17:33 < shimgray> it's the rules of the game, I'm afraid. we want free content; if it isn't explicitly free content, we don't want it, because it's detrimental to the work as a whole.
2008-03-11 17:33 < Some_Person> not many websites tag their copyrighted images
2008-03-11 17:33 < shimgray> Some_Person: We care. Most people don't
2008-03-11 17:34 < Some_Person> ok
2008-03-11 17:34 < nsh> the work as a whole being fellating richard stallman
2008-03-11 17:34 < Some_Person> but why do free images need tags?
2008-03-11 17:34 < nsh> after which comes mutual masturbation at knowledge of stupid legal requirements
2008-03-11 17:34 < Demi> Some_Person - if it was created by an employee of the school, there's a good chance the school owns the copyright, and if you can ask someone there to release it under a free license, that would be awesome
2008-03-11 17:34 < shimgray> Some_Person: To explain that they're free. :-)
2008-03-11 17:34 < nsh> in a lowly third, building an encyclopedia
2008-03-11 17:34 < nsh> tossers.
2008-03-11 17:34 < Some_Person> I don't know who created it.
2008-03-11 17:34 < Some_Person> But it is a middle school, no one would sue Wikipedia for posting the image
2008-03-11 17:34 < shimgray> nsh: personally, I would like to decapitate richard stallman. he annoys the hell out of me.
2008-03-11 17:35 < Demi> i'm of the minority of people who have no desire to either fellate or decapitate rms
2008-03-11 17:35 < Some_Person> this image is widely distributed in print and digitally through emails, and in low-quality on the website
2008-03-11 17:35 < Demi> i would prefer not to be forced into a choice, thank you
2008-03-11 17:35 * nsh smiles
2008-03-11 17:35 < nsh> fuck it
2008-03-11 17:35 < nsh> it's all irrelevant anyway
2008-03-11 17:36 < nsh> Some_Person, i don't think you'll that image approved for wikipedia without permission or lies
2008-03-11 17:37 < nsh> i suggest lies
2008-03-11 17:37 < nsh> but your call
2008-03-11 17:37 < nsh> *you'll get
2008-03-11 17:37 * nsh shakes his head in disbelief and goes off to read some philip k. dick
2008-03-11 17:37 < nsh> (to lower the level of absurdity a little)
2008-03-11 17:38 < shimgray> Demi: He does tend to inspire extremes, doesn't he?
2008-03-11 17:39 < geniice> Some_Person tyhe school still exists yes? a wikipedian could go and take a better pic
2008-03-11 17:39 < Some_Person> its not a pic
2008-03-11 17:39 < Some_Person> its a graphic of the mascot of the school
2008-03-11 17:40 < Some_Person> if it were a pic, i would create a new one myself
2008-03-11 17:40 < geniice> mascot would be hard to make a fair use claim for
2008-03-11 17:42 < Some_Person> i just dont know what tag to use
2008-03-11 17:43 < geniice> Some_Person link?
2008-03-11 17:43 < Some_Person> version i plan to post is not online
2008-03-11 17:43 < Some_Person> i got it from an email
2008-03-11 17:44 < geniice> there is no right tag
2008-03-11 17:44 < Some_Person> so what do i do?
2008-03-11 17:45 < geniice> not use it
2008-03-11 17:45 < geniice> IF you could make a case within wikipedia's fair use policy {{fairusein}} would probably be closest
2008-03-11 17:47 < Some_Person> that might work
2008-03-11 17:47 < Some_Person> i'll use that
2008-03-11 17:48 < geniice> Some_Person make one step outside wikipedia's fair use policy and the image will be deleted
2008-03-11 17:48 * dungodung protests the topic
2008-03-11 17:48 < Some_Person> i know about the fair use policy
2008-03-11 17:48 < dungodung> it's en-centric again
2008-03-11 17:50 < Some_Person> I was banned for posting old tv station logos and claiming they were allowed. This mod, A Man In Black, threatened to extend the ban to indefinately unless I promise never to post one again.
2008-03-11 17:50 < Some_Person> This was about a year ago
2008-03-11 17:52 < DannyLilithborne> 'kipedia said vulcanized was the way to go, but i dang old knew better!
2008-03-11 17:56 < seyfarth> I have a bit of a newbie question, is there any sort of third party program that I can use to work on articles, not necessarily put them up 100%, but just so I can preview and write the formatting code outside of a browser?
2008-03-11 18:01 < seyfarth> :(
2008-03-11 18:02 < [hmwith]> seyfarth, i haven't heard of any... i'd just use a page in your userspace
2008-03-11 18:02 < [hmwith]> that's how i make big changes where i need to save often, see how things look, & such
2008-03-11 18:03 < Some_Person> [hmwith]: make a user subpage
2008-03-11 18:03 < EmoBassett> oi
2008-03-11 18:03 < EmoBassett> that's me
2008-03-11 18:03 < EmoBassett> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/BuddyTheBassettHound.jpg
2008-03-11 18:03 < EmoBassett> :-P
2008-03-11 18:03 < [hmwith]> some_person, me?
2008-03-11 18:04 < Some_Person> yes
2008-03-11 18:04 < seyfarth> oh alright, thanks.
2008-03-11 18:04 < Some_Person> you can use that to save a page without 100% publishing
2008-03-11 18:05 < [hmwith]> some_person, i didn't ask the question, seyfarth did, haha
2008-03-11 18:06 < Some_Person> oh, i typed wrong name
2008-03-11 18:09 < [hmwith]> haha, no worries... i was like, "wait, what?" :)
2008-03-11 18:12 < Aqwis2> jesus christ
2008-03-11 18:13 < privatemusings> is he in this channel?
2008-03-11 18:13 < Aqwis2> somebody kill some conspiracy theorists for me, yes?
2008-03-11 18:13 < Aqwis2> privatemusings, no, but ChanServ is an agent of the Bildenberg group
2008-03-11 18:13 < Aqwis2> >.<
2008-03-11 18:13 < privatemusings> well that's common knowledge, isn't it?
2008-03-11 18:13 < Aqwis2> eheh
2008-03-11 18:14 < privatemusings> we know where to go if we need a berg buildin'.....
2008-03-11 18:14 < privatemusings> (a silly way of saying, don't sweat it.......)
2008-03-11 18:15 < Aqwis2> *bilderberg
2008-03-11 18:15 < privatemusings> things brings up another important question...
2008-03-11 18:16 < privatemusings> why aren't buildings called builts?
2008-03-11 18:22 * Mike_H cuddles privatemusings
2008-03-11 18:22 < privatemusings> g'day mike!
2008-03-11 18:22 < Mike_H> :)
2008-03-11 18:28 < Random832|away> privatemusings: hi
2008-03-11 18:28 < Random832|away> wikback is boring without you
2008-03-11 18:28 < Random832|away> when does your block expire?
2008-03-11 18:28 < privatemusings> hi random!
2008-03-11 18:29 < privatemusings> it was one week
2008-03-11 18:29 < privatemusings> so I think the 17th?
2008-03-11 18:29 < Random832> k
2008-03-11 18:29 < privatemusings> your username sums up the block pretty well!
2008-03-11 18:29 < privatemusings> i shouldn't have asked if Sir Francis invented Bacon.
2008-03-11 18:29 < privatemusings> that was bad.
2008-03-11 18:31 < NotASpy> whatcha do to get blocked over there ?
2008-03-11 18:31 < privatemusings> i asked if Sir Francis invented Bacon.
2008-03-11 18:31 < privatemusings> literally.
2008-03-11 18:32 < privatemusings> http://www.wikback.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3896&Main=119#Post3769
2008-03-11 18:32 < privatemusings> I was actually trying to be a bit of a peace keeper
2008-03-11 18:32 < EmoBassett> privatemusings: You should have known it was Roger.
2008-03-11 18:32 < privatemusings> but i think UC thought I was rather more of a peace taker...
2008-03-11 18:33 < privatemusings> I joked on my blog that UninvitedCompany was helping me with my ban withdrawal symptoms....
2008-03-11 18:33 < privatemusings> it's not a big deal though - I'll head back in due course.....
2008-03-11 18:33 < Random832> eh
2008-03-11 18:34 < Random832> his management style sucks; i've commented on it before
2008-03-11 18:34 < privatemusings> I don't think he's following best, or even good, practice in many ways....
2008-03-11 18:35 < privatemusings> I have had several posts removed from the middle of threads too....
2008-03-11 18:35 < privatemusings> but I'm happy just to quietly point out where permitted that this isn't a good thing...
2008-03-11 18:35 < privatemusings> he's trying to be firm but fair
2008-03-11 18:36 < privatemusings> and he's getting it half right at the moment, I reckon....
2008-03-11 18:36 < NotASpy> running those sorts of things is bloody hard work.
2008-03-11 18:37 < Random832> yeah, and it doesn't help when you suck at it
2008-03-11 18:37 < privatemusings> i certainly respect him heaps for bothering....
2008-03-11 18:37 < Mike_H> So they had to relist Jimmy's shirt on ebay
2008-03-11 18:37 < Mike_H> Current bid: US $500.00
2008-03-11 18:37 < Mike_H> Reserve not met
2008-03-11 18:37 < Mike_H> She wanted more than $500 on that thing. God.
2008-03-11 18:37 < Random832> has she announced whether she's going to give the proceeds to the sri lanka charity like some people on WR have been supposedly bugging her about
2008-03-11 18:37 < Krimpet> why'd they have to relist?
2008-03-11 18:38 < Mike_H> Krimpet: Something about not naming third parties who were bidding
2008-03-11 18:38 < Mike_H> or something like that
2008-03-11 18:38 < EmoBassett> Meh, I wish New Age occultists stopped calling their fiction "theory"
2008-03-11 18:38 < Krimpet> sounds like a pretty inane excuse. -_-
2008-03-11 18:39 < Random832> Messedrocker: you have a blog now?
2008-03-11 18:39 < Messedrocker> yes
2008-03-11 18:45 < EmoBassett> "In the New Age beliefs regarding him, Saint Germain is always associated with the color violet, the jewel amethyst, and the Maltese cross rendered in violet (usually the iron cross style cross patee version); he is also regarded as the "Cosmic Master of the Seventh (violet) Ray"[13] — according to Theosophy, the Seven Rays are seven metaphysical principles that govern both individual...
2008-03-11 18:45 < EmoBassett> ...souls and the unfolding of each 2,158 year long Astrological Age."
2008-03-11 18:45 < EmoBassett> that is, a minor French nobleman
2008-03-11 18:45 < EmoBassett> le comte de Saint-Germain
2008-03-11 18:45 * LOUD_CAT CANNOT HEAR YOU
2008-03-11 18:48 < Messedrocker> woman beats angel!
2008-03-11 18:49 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjHolglIAMI.
2008-03-11 18:49 < Mike_H> crap
2008-03-11 18:49 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjHolglIAMI
2008-03-11 18:49 < Mike_H> there.
2008-03-11 18:49 < shimgray> oh, god, theosophy
2008-03-11 18:50 < NotACow> moo!
2008-03-11 18:50 < EmoBassett> shimgray: You POV pusher!
2008-03-11 18:51 < EmoBassett> you just hate the truth!
2008-03-11 18:51 < EmoBassett> inspiration for the current nickname: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4a/BuddyTheBassettHound.jpg
2008-03-11 18:53 < The359> they used that as an actual commercial, Mike_H?
2008-03-11 18:53 < The359> pwned
2008-03-11 18:53 < Random832> NotACow: has your blog always had ads? i read it at work normally so i don't know
2008-03-11 18:56 < NotACow> Random832: it has for over a year
2008-03-11 18:56 < Random832> ok
2008-03-11 18:56 < Mike_H> The359: oh, yeah they did
2008-03-11 18:57 < Mike_H> it was harsh
2008-03-11 18:57 < Mike_H> it was the first time in Big Brother history that CBS used a commercial to actually mock a person in the house
2008-03-11 18:58 < Random832> so, i'm thinking of retiring from all the drama crap, after this mantanmoreland stuff is over
2008-03-11 18:58 < NotACow> Random832: good idea.
2008-03-11 18:58 < The359> BOSTON (Reuters) - George Fox, a friend and campaign contributor of New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer, said on Tuesday he was disappointed and distressed by a report that said Spitzer used his name as an alias when contacting a prostitution ring.
2008-03-11 18:58 < The359> lol
2008-03-11 18:58 < Random832> just work on javascript, technical stuff, and speedy deletion - and some article writing maybe
2008-03-11 18:58 < NotACow> Random832: don't wait for the mantanmoreland thing to get over with :)
2008-03-11 18:59 < NotACow> Random832: you can start by rewriting [[Wiki]].
2008-03-11 19:00 < Random832> maybe i'll steal JzG's "tired" banner
2008-03-11 19:01 < Mike_H> The359: I just watched a clip of Amber getting hit in the face with a tetherball
2008-03-11 19:01 < Mike_H> Amber being the crying girl in that last clip
2008-03-11 19:02 < privatemusings> notacow - i saw your posts on wiki quality...
2008-03-11 19:02 < Mike_H> surprisingly, she didn't cry when she got smacked SQUARE IN THE FACE
2008-03-11 19:02 < privatemusings> they echo a chat I had last month with Kim Bruning
2008-03-11 19:02 < privatemusings> and some of the stuff we chatted about on the 'skypecast'
2008-03-11 19:02 < privatemusings> I've got an idea to encourage people to grade articles in a centralised way...
2008-03-11 19:02 < privatemusings> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Privatemusings
2008-03-11 19:03 < privatemusings> I hope to persuade OverlordQ to write a bot to facilitate it
2008-03-11 19:03 < privatemusings> she or he has already written a script to grab diff.s 3 months apart
2008-03-11 19:03 < privatemusings> which is very handy
2008-03-11 19:06 < NotACow> privatemusings: oh?
2008-03-11 19:07 < NotACow> privatemusings: there are some efforts to grade articles, but historically they've focused on articles that interest the people doing the grading, not on articles that people actually read.
2008-03-11 19:07 < privatemusings> i got the feeling that if this was organised, even just a little, then quite a few people would be prepared to 'grade' quite a few articles
2008-03-11 19:07 < privatemusings> (to respond...) - hopefully that would be ok - with volume offering the balance...
2008-03-11 19:07 < Leslie_S> * Must be equipped with a hard top if it is an SUV. U-Haul does not allow any type of sport-utility vehicle not equipped with a hard top to tow U-Haul equipment.
2008-03-11 19:07 < Leslie_S> lols
2008-03-11 19:07 < privatemusings> and you'll see that I'm particularly interested in GA and FA articles...
2008-03-11 19:08 < Messedrocker> privatemusings, i came up with a similar idea
2008-03-11 19:08 < privatemusings> because (as we mentioned in the skypecast) - there's a feeling that at some point wiki = mediocrity
2008-03-11 19:08 < NotACow> privatemusings: a lot of FAs and GAs are articles that nobody reads.
2008-03-11 19:08 < Messedrocker> base on a starting point, like where an article achieves GA or FA, you review a diff one by one
2008-03-11 19:08 < NotACow> privatemusings: wikipedia is expert at creating mediocrity.
2008-03-11 19:08 < Messedrocker> and you get to decide if the revision has made the article better or worse
2008-03-11 19:08 < Messedrocker> you get diffs randomly
2008-03-11 19:08 < privatemusings> i take your point notacow - but that's probably a function of the no. of edits between diffs ?
2008-03-11 19:09 < privatemusings> for probably - read 'maybe'
2008-03-11 19:09 < NotACow> privatemusings: i don't think the community should expend a lot of effort on articles nobody is reading
2008-03-11 19:09 < privatemusings> messed - what is it they say about great minds?
2008-03-11 19:09 < privatemusings> yeah - that does make sense
2008-03-11 19:09 < privatemusings> which would mean article selection for 'grading' could be less than random?
2008-03-11 19:09 < Messedrocker> privatemusings, they think alike?
2008-03-11 19:10 < privatemusings> say, only if a certain no. of edits or views have occured?
2008-03-11 19:10 < privatemusings> it's easy enough to grab that data, I gather.....
2008-03-11 19:10 < Aqwis> why do we have to sacrifice articles that "nobody reads" to improve articles that people read?
2008-03-11 19:10 < Aqwis> *read
2008-03-11 19:10 < privatemusings> we don't
2008-03-11 19:11 < NotACow> e.g. [[Pattern Recognition (novel)]] was promoted to FA earlier this month. It was viewed 5438 times in February.
2008-03-11 19:11 < privatemusings> but it misses good diagnosis of any systemic problem....,
2008-03-11 19:11 < LOUD_CAT> LOUDER!
2008-03-11 19:11 * LOUD_CAT CANNOT HEAR YOU
2008-03-11 19:11 < NotACow> in comparison, [[Fire]] was viewed 98206 times.
2008-03-11 19:11 < Messedrocker> that's because you're shouting!
2008-03-11 19:12 < privatemusings> I think we're kinda talking about different aspects, notacow....
2008-03-11 19:12 < privatemusings> I agree that the most important articles are the ones getting the most views...
2008-03-11 19:12 < privatemusings> (well, sort of....)
2008-03-11 19:12 < privatemusings> that is, after all, the raison d'etre for an article, no?
2008-03-11 19:12 < Mike_H> privatemusings: The happenings of the Veto competition sparked a stunning turn of events. First, Jameka believed that Jen randomly pulling her ball to play in the Veto competition was God?fs way of telling her that she needed to fight for Jen.
2008-03-11 19:12 < NotACow> privatemusings: one would think.
2008-03-11 19:12 < Krimpet> c'mon baby view my [[Fire]]
2008-03-11 19:12 < Mike_H> That happened on Big Brother last year, and was like one of the most shocking reality TV moments of '07
2008-03-11 19:13 < privatemusings> (I prefer Jimi Hendrix, Krimpet)
2008-03-11 19:13 < privatemusings> let me stand next to your [[Fire]]
2008-03-11 19:13 < Aqwis> [[Fire]] and similar articles should be the easiest to write
2008-03-11 19:13 < Mike_H> Jameka told Jen and several other HouseGuests that if she won the Veto, she would use it on Jen. Dick eventually found out and tried to convince Jameka that she was exaggerating and to not fight for Jen, but only gained more resentment against him.
2008-03-11 19:13 < Aqwis> textbooks could be used as sources
2008-03-11 19:13 < privatemusings> notacow - but I'm also interested in seeing if the wiki process is actually fundamentally damaging to article quality at a certain point
2008-03-11 19:13 < NotACow> Aqwis: and yet [[Fire]] is quite craptacular.
2008-03-11 19:13 < Apple> slapbook is the coolest thing ever
2008-03-11 19:14 < Apple> there's a chance I might break my laptop :(
2008-03-11 19:14 * Messedrocker created [[Category:Fire]]
2008-03-11 19:15 < Mike_H> privatemusings: I was talking to you :<
2008-03-11 19:15 < Messedrocker> Apple, then stop slapping it
2008-03-11 19:15 * privatemusings feels guilty for not having replied....
2008-03-11 19:16 * privatemusings wasn't really sure what Mike was talking about, though...!
2008-03-11 19:16 < Mike_H> privatemusings: It was one of the dumbest reality TV moments ever
2008-03-11 19:16 < Mike_H> it happened on Big Brother 8 last year
2008-03-11 19:16 < Apple> Messedrocker: hell no! this is too fun
2008-03-11 19:17 < Mike_H> privatemusings: It got widely made fun of in the entertainment media
2008-03-11 19:17 < Mike_H> with different satirists "praying" for different things and then being angry that they didn't get them because Jameka said God did that sort of thing
2008-03-11 19:17 < privatemusings> gotta love big brother...!
2008-03-11 19:20 < Mike_H> privatemusings: Jameka and Amber both used religion to play the Big Brother game, and it's really sad
2008-03-11 19:20 < Mike_H> because God has...better things to do than award you money on a stupid reality show
2008-03-11 19:21 < privatemusings> whatever gets them through the night, I guess......
2008-03-11 19:21 < privatemusings> (two points for the artist on that song....)
2008-03-11 19:21 < Messedrocker> Mike_H, about what percentage of the people on the show Big Brother know what the title alludes to?
2008-03-11 19:21 < shimgray> it's a reasonably common set school text. here
2008-03-11 19:22 < kenlyric> 0
2008-03-11 19:22 < Mike_H> kenlyric: Oh, it's higher than 0!
2008-03-11 19:23 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: I'd say like 3.
2008-03-11 19:23 < privatemusings> i'd say just under two thousand....
2008-03-11 19:23 < privatemusings> nineteen hundred and something....
2008-03-11 19:24 < Apple> I just got yelled at by someone in class for smacking my macbook too much :(
2008-03-11 19:25 < shimgray> ...wait a sec
2008-03-11 19:25 < shimgray> oh, there it goes
2008-03-11 19:25 < EmoBassett> zere sheeee gowwwwwwws
2008-03-11 19:25 < shimgray> was about to ask why the mainpage FA hadn't changed over :-)
2008-03-11 19:26 < Apple> kept getting squiggly lines beceause I was shaking the table
2008-03-11 19:26 < EmoBassett> she's gowne brrrreak yoor hart in tooooooooooooooh
2008-03-11 19:26 < EmoBassett> zats vat she'll dooooooooh
2008-03-11 19:27 < EmoBassett> she's tchust a littal tee-heese
2008-03-11 19:33 * Hildanknight waves to Ceiling_Cat
2008-03-11 19:34 * Hildanknight waves to ggreer
2008-03-11 19:34 * Hildanknight waves to Gracenotes
2008-03-11 19:34 < ggreer> 'sup
2008-03-11 19:34 < Gracenotes> Hildanknight: hey!
2008-03-11 19:34 * Hildanknight waves to Messedrocker
2008-03-11 19:34 * Hildanknight waves to Miranda
2008-03-11 19:34 < Messedrocker> hello hildan knight
2008-03-11 19:35 * Lucifer_Cat watches Hildanknight
2008-03-11 19:36 < Hildanknight> Ceiling_Cat, ggreer, Gracenotes, Messedrocker, Miranda and everyone else: You are invited to contribute to a peer review @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Homerun_(film)/archive1
2008-03-11 19:36 < miranda> Hildanknight: SPAM SPAM SPAM
2008-03-11 19:36 < ggreer> delete nn
2008-03-11 19:36 * Hildanknight rolls his eyes.
2008-03-11 19:36 < ggreer> I'm only sorta kidding
2008-03-11 19:36 * LOUD_CAT HOPS ONTO HILDAKNIGHT'S FACE AND FACEHUGGLES
2008-03-11 19:37 * Ceiling_Cat watches
2008-03-11 19:37 * Hildanknight has been told that canvassing for *peer reviews* is allowed, even encouraged.
2008-03-11 19:37 < miranda> Hildanknight: I would help, but I am busy
2008-03-11 19:37 < Messedrocker> canvassing RFAs ought to be allowed
2008-03-11 19:37 < Hildanknight> Miranda: You can bookmark it and come to it later. Peer reviews last two weeks. :)
2008-03-11 19:37 < Comets> :O
2008-03-11 19:37 < Messedrocker> otherwise you're stuck with the RFA Club voting
2008-03-11 19:37 < Messedrocker> and they're plain evil
2008-03-11 19:38 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: Stop focusing on RFAs, start focusing on GAs. :)
2008-03-11 19:38 < Messedrocker> I never really focus on RFAs.
2008-03-11 19:39 < Messedrocker> And unfortunately, I haven't focused on any article writing
2008-03-11 19:39 < Messedrocker> Since article writing is the only thing I will allow myself doing, I've more or less stopped editing
2008-03-11 19:39 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: Why not? Writing articles is fun.
2008-03-11 19:39 < CakeProphet> ...what's the unix command to copy directories?
2008-03-11 19:39 < NotACow> Messedrocker: rewrite [[Wiki]].
2008-03-11 19:39 < NotACow> CakeProphet: cp -r
2008-03-11 19:40 < NotACow> CakeProphet: or cp -a
2008-03-11 19:40 < Krimpet> CakeProphet: cp -a
2008-03-11 19:40 < Messedrocker> Hildanknight, I haven't found anything good to write about
2008-03-11 19:40 < Messedrocker> NotACow, is Wikinomics an acceptable source?
2008-03-11 19:40 < Krimpet> cp -r works too, but doesn't preserve all attributes. :)
2008-03-11 19:40 < NotACow> Messedrocker: what's wikinomics?
2008-03-11 19:40 < Messedrocker> it's a book
2008-03-11 19:40 < Ceiling_Cat> cp -r source target
2008-03-11 19:40 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: Well, take some time to find your niche. Mine is Singaporean cinema and Singaporean football. :)
2008-03-11 19:40 < NotACow> Messedrocker: might be
2008-03-11 19:40 < Messedrocker> Wikinomics: How Mass Collaboration Changes Everything is a book by Don Tapscott and Anthony D. Williams first published in December 2006. It explores how some companies in the early 21st century have used mass collaboration (also called peer production) and open-source technology such as wikis to be successful. The book has been reviewed by major media outlets, including The Guardian.
2008-03-11 19:40 < NotACow> Messedrocker: you could just rearrange the crap that's there now
2008-03-11 19:40 < Messedrocker> Hildanknight, I am no niche. I am very eclectic
2008-03-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> NotACow, you said it was lacking material, too
2008-03-11 19:41 < Hildanknight> Ggreer: During our most recent lecture, we went through three pages of a text - about racist Americans. :P
2008-03-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> I will base my re-write on your review :)
2008-03-11 19:41 < ggreer> heh
2008-03-11 19:41 < Leslie_S> who the hell steals a gas cap?
2008-03-11 19:41 < NotACow> Leslie_S: someone who needs one
2008-03-11 19:41 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: If you can't write, I suggest you review.
2008-03-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> "Some have suggested that wiki means, "What I Know Is." However, this is a backronym." << oh jesus.
2008-03-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> Hildanknight, I'm not good at reviewing, either
2008-03-11 19:41 < NotACow> Messedrocker: i didn't comment on that specifically
2008-03-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> Since I do not know what to look for
2008-03-11 19:42 < NotACow> Messedrocker: it's not hard
2008-03-11 19:42 < Messedrocker> NotACow, if you're referring to the sentence I just copy and pasted, I know. I was pointing out how unnecessary it was to split that across two sentences
2008-03-11 19:42 < NotACow> Messedrocker: you read the article, and then you comment on what you find, or don't find.
2008-03-11 19:42 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: Ouch. Well, if you're a native speaker of English, you could pick out problems with prose.
2008-03-11 19:42 < Messedrocker> True. I DO have an eye for grammar and usage
2008-03-11 19:43 < Messedrocker> and i am an okay writer
2008-03-11 19:43 < sargun_screen> wow.
2008-03-11 19:43 < Messedrocker> apparently i am good enough to have an A+ in English (mostly writing) and to be recommended into AP English Language and Composition
2008-03-11 19:43 < Messedrocker> (which i turned down in favor of AP Chemistry and AP US History)
2008-03-11 19:45 < Hildanknight> Messedrocker: Then read the article, check for prose problems and point out any you spot.
2008-03-11 19:45 < Gracenotes> Messedrocker: good for you... I disliked both the class and the exam
2008-03-11 19:46 < Gracenotes> unfortunately, four years of English are required at my school, three of which have to be full year -- so it was either AP or Regents-level... :|
2008-03-11 19:46 < NotACow> dtobias: hey.
2008-03-11 19:46 < dtobias> Hey.
2008-03-11 19:46 < dtobias> Moo.
2008-03-11 19:47 < NotACow> dtobias: how goes?
2008-03-11 19:47 < Messedrocker> Gracenotes, my AP Chem teacher next year is a former bench chemist
2008-03-11 19:47 < gwern> a paradox a paradox a most ingenious paradox!
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> I'm watching an eviction from Big Brother Australia
2008-03-11 19:48 * Hildanknight enjoyed English class, but still isn't a native speaker.
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> it's as if they have a damn party when someone leaves
2008-03-11 19:48 < gwern> English is easy
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> I don't get it
2008-03-11 19:48 < gwern> Let's not go shopping?
2008-03-11 19:48 < gwern> Mike_H: maybe they all hate eachother
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> gwern: No, I mean like
2008-03-11 19:48 < dtobias> My pet peeve, the BADSITES issue, just won't go away... there's been fighting over Encyclopedia Dramatica and the ArbCom dictate about linking to it yet again.
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> they send the evicted person to a stadium
2008-03-11 19:48 < NotACow> GLOOP
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> where everyone's there cheering
2008-03-11 19:48 < Mike_H> it's so odd
2008-03-11 19:48 < NotACow> dtobias: well, to be honest i'm no fan of ED.
2008-03-11 19:48 < Hildanknight> Dtobias: Focus on writing GAs instead!
2008-03-11 19:48 < Messedrocker> thank you for reminding me, NotACow. I'll get to work on [[wiki]]
2008-03-11 19:49 < Krimpet> NotACow: Bob Dole has the solution for you. :)
2008-03-11 19:49 < NotACow> Krimpet: hm?
2008-03-11 19:49 < dtobias> Neither am I, but it's just hypocritical... millions of Muslims are offended by the Muhammed pics and we say tough, Wikipedia is not censored... but a few Wikipedians get their feelings hurt by a site and suddenly NPOV is out the window.
2008-03-11 19:49 < NotACow> Krimpet: ah. right. :)
2008-03-11 19:49 < Messedrocker> Nota-- yeah.
2008-03-11 19:50 < NotACow> dtobias: tbh, ED offers very little of merit, while the depictions of muslim issue is a but more nuanced than that.
2008-03-11 19:50 < dtobias> ED is still a moderately notable site, with Alexa rankings much higher than many other sites we cover, and various reliable-source coverage.
2008-03-11 19:51 * Krimpet thinks ED is pretty NN, and only appears more notable to us because they pester us and because the collective ego of /b/tards is enough to power a mid-sized island nation; nevertheless, BADSITES is a horrible idea -_-
2008-03-11 19:51 < NotACow> dtobias: ED isn't really meaningful for anything.
2008-03-11 19:51 < NotACow> dtobias: it's a rumor mill, and not even that good of one.
2008-03-11 19:51 < Hildanknight> Dtobias: To be honest, they should remove the Muhammad pics.
2008-03-11 19:51 < dtobias> WP:IDONTLIKEIT is not a valid reason for deletion.
2008-03-11 19:52 < Messedrocker> ED isn't even a rumor mill
2008-03-11 19:52 < Messedrocker> that's suggesting they actually do anything other than shit on themselves and laugh
2008-03-11 19:52 < Krimpet> more of a sewage processing plant
2008-03-11 19:53 < dtobias> [[User:Sceptre]] is acting like a real jerk on the issue... he tried to intimidate the originator of the last DRV of ED by mentioning that people who did that in the past got banned, and he censored links to the Alexa rankings because the URL had ED's domain name embedded in it.
2008-03-11 19:53 < Leslie_S> rofl
2008-03-11 19:53 < NotACow> dtobias: Sceptre has justified issues to dislike Nathan.
2008-03-11 19:54 < NotACow> dtobias: and ED has done a very fine job of making a lot of enemies
2008-03-11 19:54 < dtobias> Personal likes and dislikes shouldn't be what drives editorial decisions.
2008-03-11 19:54 < Gracenotes> not to say it doesn't drive policy decisions
2008-03-11 19:54 < NotACow> dtobias: frankly, when you add little value to the state of human discourse, and mainly exist to piss people off, you can't expect a whole lot of interest
2008-03-11 19:55 < NotACow> dtobias: the reason for not linking to ED is that there's simply no good reason to do so, there being nothing on ED that can be considered reliable.
2008-03-11 19:55 < dtobias> That doesn't justify the scorched-earth policy against anything to do with it.
2008-03-11 19:56 < Krimpet> admittedly, Sceptre should probably recuse himself from the discussion, he has a zealous dislike for them for understandable reasons
2008-03-11 19:56 < Messedrocker> Krimpet, pressure him to recuse
2008-03-11 19:56 < NotACow> dtobias: perhaps not, but ED has been sufficiently nasty to enough of the wikipedia community that it's totally unsurprising that nobody at wikipedia particularily wants to give ED the time of day
2008-03-11 19:57 < dtobias> Plenty of people have been permabanned from Wikipedia for letting their zealous dislike of somebody or something control their activity.
2008-03-11 19:58 < Messedrocker> Yes. It's like...
2008-03-11 19:58 * Messedrocker tries to think of an apt analogy
2008-03-11 19:58 < dtobias> With me it's a matter of principle... I'll fight to the death against unjust censorship, even of stuff I don't particularly like.
2008-03-11 19:58 < Messedrocker> dtobias, what about censorship of pedophiles?
2008-03-11 19:58 < dtobias> There's an article on [[NAMBLA]], isn't ther?
2008-03-11 19:59 < Messedrocker> I didn't say there wasn't
2008-03-11 19:59 < dtobias> There's an article on [[Stormfront (website)]], a bunch of Nazis (real ones, so Godwin's Law doesn't apply).
2008-03-11 19:59 < Krimpet> their pestering of us also leads to them appearing more notable than they really are - kind of a systemic bias. has anyone ever found a single reliable source on them?
2008-03-11 19:59 < Messedrocker> *ahem* neo-nazis.
2008-03-11 19:59 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_%28web%29#Criteria
2008-03-11 19:59 < Ceiling_Cat> Exactly which of those criteria does ED meet?
2008-03-11 19:59 < Ceiling_Cat> The content itself has been the subject of multiple non-trivial published works whose source is independent of the site itself.? No
2008-03-11 19:59 < Messedrocker> The masturbating cat i right
2008-03-11 19:59 < Messedrocker> is*
2008-03-11 19:59 < Ceiling_Cat> "The website or content has won a well-known and independent award from either a publication or organization" - No
2008-03-11 20:00 < Ceiling_Cat> "The content is distributed via a medium which is both respected and independent of the creators, either through an online newspaper or magazine, an online publisher, or an online broadcaster" - No
2008-03-11 20:00 < Cyrius> wikipedia choosing to not cover a topic is not unjust
2008-03-11 20:00 < Ceiling_Cat> I mean, outside of ED, the only coverage of ED I know about is the Wikifur article on it
2008-03-11 20:00 < Messedrocker> Cyrius, what about choosing to cover something despite popular opposition?
2008-03-11 20:00 < gwern> Messedrocker: Ceiling_Cat is a voyeur cat
2008-03-11 20:00 < dtobias> Enforcing the coverage rules differently based on who has a visceral dislike of what is unjust, though.
2008-03-11 20:00 < Ceiling_Cat> (because ED and Wikifur have competiting sniping entries on each other)
2008-03-11 20:00 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat does not masturbate. he watches other people
2008-03-11 20:00 < Messedrocker> I know, Gwern. I call him the Masturbating Cat out of purposes of irony
2008-03-11 20:01 < Cyrius> dtobias: there's no justice here to be had
2008-03-11 20:01 < Cyrius> wikipedia does not have any obligation to cover any topic
2008-03-11 20:01 < Faroframkallande> okay, dtobias, the real reason: it's because me, Jimbo, SlimVirgin, JzG, Moreschi, and Ceiling_Cat are all plotting to annoy you
2008-03-11 20:01 < dtobias> Threatening to ban people for even suggesting that ED ought to have an article, as has happened, is unjust (the people who make those threats are the ones who should be banned, IMO)
2008-03-11 20:01 < Cyrius> wikipedia has no obligation to allow people to edit
2008-03-11 20:02 < Cyrius> "everyone can edit" is a means to the end, not the purpose
2008-03-11 20:02 < Faroframkallande> quick, quick, someone ban me per dtobias
2008-03-11 20:03 < Krimpet> Faroframkallande: SV and Moreschi working together? {{fact}} plz
2008-03-11 20:03 < Cyrius> Faroframkallande: meh, I'm too busy reading a press release about the US tsunami warning system
2008-03-11 20:03 < Faroframkallande> Krumpet: oh ya
2008-03-11 20:03 < Faroframkallande> I must remove that
2008-03-11 20:04 < Cyrius> "Krumpet" hee
2008-03-11 20:04 < Faroframkallande> "extraordinary claims require extraordinary sources"
2008-03-11 20:05 < dtobias> People like MONGO are so hyper about the possibility that somebody, somewhere might be linking to a BADSITE and that will offend somebody and drive people away from Wikipedia... but his attitude is driving people away too.
2008-03-11 20:05 < Faroframkallande> dtobias: put yourself in our shoes
2008-03-11 20:05 < NotACow> dtobias: i think you read too much into this. keep in mind that you're dealing with people who don't like to think too very much.
2008-03-11 20:06 < Faroframkallande> we sure as hell don't want speculation about our sexual lives, libel, and down right harassment
2008-03-11 20:06 < dtobias> Your shoes are the wrong size.
2008-03-11 20:06 < Cyrius> dtobias needs clown shoes
2008-03-11 20:06 < dtobias> How does banning links to some site stop whatever they're doing?
2008-03-11 20:06 < Krimpet> all this talk about ED, sexual lives... any unfamiliar users walking in on this conversation must think we're in a Viagra commercial. <_<
2008-03-11 20:06 < Faroframkallande> for fucks sake, how can you justify a link to a page that says one of our most prominent admins is a slut who deserved to have a miscarriage
2008-03-11 20:06 < Ceiling_Cat> Dtobias - people like Mongo do productive work
2008-03-11 20:07 < Ceiling_Cat> People who contribute to ED drive away productive contributors
2008-03-11 20:07 < dtobias> People who try to impose stupid censorship drive away productive contributors.
2008-03-11 20:07 < Ceiling_Cat> It's not hard to see which ones we should favor
2008-03-11 20:07 * Mike_H hugs dtobias
2008-03-11 20:07 < Mike_H> WikBack may have banned you but I didn't ban you from my hugs!
2008-03-11 20:07 < Mike_H> :DD
2008-03-11 20:07 < Cyrius> it's not censorship to say you can't put something on wikipedia
2008-03-11 20:08 < Ceiling_Cat> Dtobias - Stop speaking in generalities. Who, exactly, has been driving away because he couldn't link to ED, or WR, or any other attack site?
2008-03-11 20:08 < Cyrius> you can say whatever you want, you just can't use wikipedia's resources to do so
2008-03-11 20:08 < dtobias> So if you do some productive work, it's OK to act like a smelly turd the rest of the time?
2008-03-11 20:08 < Faroframkallande> it's better than being a shit who doesn't do any work at all
2008-03-11 20:08 < Mike_H> dtobias: three letters, honey
2008-03-11 20:08 < Mike_H> J
2008-03-11 20:08 < Mike_H> z
2008-03-11 20:08 < Mike_H> G.
2008-03-11 20:08 < DannyLilithborne> If not being allowed to mention a stupid attack site is enough to drive "productive contributors" away, maybe we don't want them
2008-03-11 20:08 < Ceiling_Cat> Dtobias - again, you're long on making generalities and short on facts
2008-03-11 20:08 < Cyrius> I like how dtobias can't stick with a line of argument
2008-03-11 20:08 < dtobias> I haven't been "driven away", but I've done a lot less productive work in the last year because I've been obsessed with driving a stake through the heart of BADSITES.
2008-03-11 20:09 < DannyLilithborne> sounds like a personal problem to me
2008-03-11 20:09 < Ceiling_Cat> Dtobias - aha! We have come to the heart of your argument
2008-03-11 20:09 < Faroframkallande> Cyrius: Help, Help, I'm being oppressed!
2008-03-11 20:09 < dtobias> It's been basically the consuming passion of my life these days to end that idiotic policy.
2008-03-11 20:09 < Ceiling_Cat> You don't like badsites, so apparently everyone must feel oppressed by it
2008-03-11 20:09 < DannyLilithborne> wow.
2008-03-11 20:09 < DannyLilithborne> go outside.
2008-03-11 20:09 < dtobias> Before a year ago, I was editing mainspace articles almost exclusively, but it's been reversed since.
2008-03-11 20:09 < Cyrius> ...passion?
2008-03-11 20:10 < Cyrius> ugh.
2008-03-11 20:10 < Faroframkallande> dtobias: if you think it's right to link to a site that says that an admin who had a miscarriage in pregnancy deserved it for being a slut, then you can just fuck off the wiki
2008-03-11 20:10 < Faroframkallande> no-one wants you
2008-03-11 20:10 < Mike_H> Faroframkallande: uh
2008-03-11 20:10 < Mike_H> I messaged you
2008-03-11 20:10 < Mike_H> please respond
2008-03-11 20:10 < Mike_H> thx
2008-03-11 20:10 < dtobias> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dtobias/Why_BADSITES_is_bad_policy
2008-03-11 20:10 < Faroframkallande> Mike_H: I haven't got it
2008-03-11 20:11 < formless> is there a web site that collects articles deleted from wikipedia?
2008-03-11 20:11 < DannyLilithborne> dtobias: as ED would say, tl;dr
2008-03-11 20:11 < Faroframkallande> formless: wikitruth used to
2008-03-11 20:11 < dtobias> http://dan.tobias.name/controversies/cyber/wiki2.html
2008-03-11 20:11 < Krimpet> dtobias: the BADSITES mentality is a horrible idea, and it's been misapplied in several circumstances. but in the case of ED... there's good reasons we don't have an article on them.
2008-03-11 20:11 < formless> Faroframkallande: and they don't do it anymore?
2008-03-11 20:11 < Random832> Faroframkallande: so, what's your specific basis for claiming that ED is more evil than, say, NAMBLA?
2008-03-11 20:11 < Faroframkallande> I don't know
2008-03-11 20:11 < Random832> or Stormfront?
2008-03-11 20:11 < dtobias> Reasons like WP:IDONTLIKEIT ?
2008-03-11 20:11 < Random832> because, we link to those
2008-03-11 20:11 < Faroframkallande> Random832: read the point I made twice
2008-03-11 20:12 < gwern> formless: Pickover used to have a blog perserving them
2008-03-11 20:12 < DannyLilithborne> NAMBLA and Stormfront aren't run by Anonymous
2008-03-11 20:12 < Random832> Faroframkallande: I wasn't aware my point had been made before such that you could have already responded to it
2008-03-11 20:12 < Krimpet> no, because they're just a piddling website that's pestered and harassed us into thinking they're noteworthy
2008-03-11 20:12 < Random832> DannyLilithborne: and Anonymous is worth than pedophiles and nazis?
2008-03-11 20:13 < formless> are deleted articles stored anywhere when they're deleted, or are they truly gone forever at that point?
2008-03-11 20:13 < Krimpet> formless: the history is available to admins
2008-03-11 20:13 < Cyrius> deleted articles are preserved and can be recovered
2008-03-11 20:13 < DannyLilithborne> honestly?
2008-03-11 20:13 < NotACow> moo
2008-03-11 20:13 < DannyLilithborne> i think internet trolls are the worst form of life
2008-03-11 20:13 < DannyLilithborne> but that's just my opinion :\
2008-03-11 20:13 < formless> Krimpet: interesting
2008-03-11 20:13 < dtobias> Now who's giving them more importance than they deserve?
2008-03-11 20:13 < Krimpet> as long as the article is relatively unproblematic, an admin will usually be willing to send you a copy
2008-03-11 20:14 < formless> Krimpet: I have an idea, I guess, around the preservation of deleted content using some kind of automated tool
2008-03-11 20:14 < formless> I wonder if it's ever been considered by the foundation
2008-03-11 20:14 < Cyrius> formless: why would they want it?
2008-03-11 20:14 < NotACow> formless: the foundation couldn't give a shit about deleted content.
2008-03-11 20:14 < Krimpet> formless: the problem with that, though, is that some articles are deleted for serious reasons like BLP
2008-03-11 20:14 < Cyrius> deleted content is already preserved, as far as the foundation is concerned
2008-03-11 20:14 < formless> Cyrius, NotACow, true, but lots of people do
2008-03-11 20:15 < NotACow> actually deleted content may go away without prior notice
2008-03-11 20:15 < NotACow> brion reserves the right to trim or drop the archive table
2008-03-11 20:15 < Cyrius> if the foundation wanted to distribute the stuff it deletes, it wouldn't be deleted in the first place
2008-03-11 20:15 < NotACow> he just hasn't
2008-03-11 20:15 < NotACow> Cyrius: the foundation has nothing to do with deletion decisions.
2008-03-11 20:15 < Random832> if he did there would be riots
2008-03-11 20:15 < formless> I just think it'd be neat if deleted content was automatically offloaded onto some other site, some kind of virtual garbage can that's available to the public
2008-03-11 20:15 < Random832> i'm pretty sure if they ever did that, they'd make a backup
2008-03-11 20:15 < NotACow> Random832: it's been dropped before, without a backup
2008-03-11 20:15 < Cyrius> NotACow: if it wanted to distribute stuff that was deleted, it would not stay deleted.
2008-03-11 20:15 < formless> it would maybe end the ongoing deletionist/inclusionist dilemma
2008-03-11 20:16 < formless> and then we could delete all of the damn Pokemon articles :D
2008-03-11 20:16 < NotACow> Cyrius: the foundation is agnostic to the question
2008-03-11 20:16 < Cyrius> formless: by eliminating "deletion"
2008-03-11 20:16 < NotACow> Cyrius: they neither want, nor don't want, to distribute any content, deleted or otherwise.
2008-03-11 20:16 < NotACow> formless: meaningless dialectic.
2008-03-11 20:16 < Cyrius> if they don't care about distributing content, why are they paying for servers?
2008-03-11 20:17 < NotACow> Cyrius: the foundation does not care about any particular content
2008-03-11 20:17 < NotACow> Cyrius: rather, they distribute whatever content each project determines, by its own processes, is worthy of distribution.
2008-03-11 20:17 < formless> NotACow: true, I guess... oh well, it was just something I was pondering
2008-03-11 20:17 < NotACow> Cyrius: the decision is project-level; the foundation plays basically no role.
2008-03-11 20:17 < Cyrius> so if en decided to become pokepedia, they wouldn't have a problem with that?
2008-03-11 20:17 < formless> lol, pokepedia
2008-03-11 20:18 < Faroframkallande> NotACow: what about copyvios and libel?
2008-03-11 20:18 < NotACow> Cyrius: quite possibly.
2008-03-11 20:18 < Cyrius> yeah, I'm not buying that
2008-03-11 20:18 < Faroframkallande> (section 230 aside)
2008-03-11 20:18 < NotACow> Faroframkallande: the foundation has no liability for libel and their liability for copyright is narrowly defined.
2008-03-11 20:18 < DannyLilithborne> pikapedia
2008-03-11 20:18 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-03-11 20:18 < mark7> I was reading about wikipedia's financial woes online recently, and was wondering whether a possible (partial?) solution might be to have the Book Sources page use tack affiliate IDs onto the links they provide to booksellers?
2008-03-11 20:18 < NotACow> mark7: heh
2008-03-11 20:19 < formless> might as well just display ads, then
2008-03-11 20:19 < NotACow> mark7: that will not be acceptable to the community
2008-03-11 20:19 < NotACow> mark7: wikipedia runs on love and happiness and doesn't need money.
2008-03-11 20:19 < Krimpet> IIRC, I think the WMF is obligated to stay out of content decisions for nonprofit reasons
2008-03-11 20:19 < Cyrius> mark7: tried that a couple of years ago and it didn't do much, iirc
2008-03-11 20:19 < formless> what wikipedia needs is an insanely rich benefactor to take it under its wing
2008-03-11 20:19 < NotACow> Krimpet: more for section 230 liability reasons
2008-03-11 20:19 < mark7> NotACow: I mean, if the link is already being provided to the bookseller...
2008-03-11 20:19 < mark7> Cyrius: Ah
2008-03-11 20:19 < Messedrocker> NotACow, I know someone who busted Wikipedia for doing such a thing
2008-03-11 20:19 < NotACow> Krimpet: doesn't have much to do with nonprofit decisions
2008-03-11 20:19 < Krimpet> though, in theory, not in practice. :p
2008-03-11 20:19 < Cyrius> I'm not quite sure though
2008-03-11 20:19 < Messedrocker> Special:Booksources or something includes Wikimedia affiliate tags in the automagically generated URLs
2008-03-11 20:19 < Krimpet> yeah, something like that. I don't know my law too well. :)
2008-03-11 20:20 < mark7> Okay, well, nuts. Guess I'll keep thinking. Thanks, guys.
2008-03-11 20:20 < NotACow> so, when do we invade iran?
2008-03-11 20:20 < NotACow> britain mus already know it's going too happen
2008-03-11 20:20 < NotACow> they've started to deport iranian refugees