freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-08 00:33 < zocky> TheWeasel, because FPÖ wanted to join the government, and ÖVP couldn't afford to be in coallition with jörg
2008-03-08 00:33 < zocky> for EU reasons, not domestic reasons
2008-03-08 00:33 < TheWeasel> oh, it was much later.
2008-03-08 00:33 < TheWeasel> Haider wanted a say back
2008-03-08 00:33 < TheWeasel> and the FPÖ ministers were moderate for his standards
2008-03-08 00:34 < TheWeasel> while still being to the right of most everyone else
2008-03-08 00:34 < TheWeasel> and so they had ugly spats
2008-03-08 00:34 < zocky> the worst thing about people like him is, i don't really believe he's a nationalist
2008-03-08 00:34 < TheWeasel> their foreign minister was terrible enough
2008-03-08 00:34 < zocky> he doesn't give a damn about the german nation
2008-03-08 00:34 < TheWeasel> I have no idea, nor do I care much
2008-03-08 00:34 < TheWeasel> Benita Ferrero-Waldner!
2008-03-08 00:35 < zocky> oh, our dear FM's dear friend
2008-03-08 00:35 * zocky vomits
2008-03-08 00:36 < gwern> TheWeasel: I'm surprised there is an oolong pic on Commons
2008-03-08 00:36 < zocky> TheWeasel, to me, haider looks like our PM, or like šešelj, the serbian guy in hague, or like berlusconi
2008-03-08 00:36 < TheWeasel> she made odd wardrobe choices
2008-03-08 00:36 < zocky> all pure cynicism
2008-03-08 00:36 < TheWeasel> yea. no political direction at all really.
2008-03-08 00:36 < TheWeasel> Just trying to say whatever he thinks people want to hear
2008-03-08 00:37 < zocky> yeah, and it doesn't matter who gets hurt, as long as he gets to stay in power
2008-03-08 00:37 < TheWeasel> Populism isn't really anything but playing for today.
2008-03-08 00:37 < TheWeasel> it's the same everywhere
2008-03-08 00:37 < TheWeasel> and the people who fall for it are essentially unpolitical
2008-03-08 00:38 < TheWeasel> the directionlessness of it is pretty horrible, on top of being a racist.
2008-03-08 00:38 < TheWeasel> because if he really did follow a plan, people would get a chance to rip his mask off
2008-03-08 00:38 < TheWeasel> but they don't
2008-03-08 00:39 < TheWeasel> because he's chummy
2008-03-08 00:40 < TheWeasel> "She tends to stand out at diplomatic meetings due to her great height; she is 6 ft 3 in (191 cm) tall."
2008-03-08 00:40 < TheWeasel> the new foreign minister
2008-03-08 00:40 < TheWeasel> haha
2008-03-08 00:40 < NotACow> moo
2008-03-08 00:41 < TheWeasel> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Plassnik_et_Rice.jpg condi looks like a kid here
2008-03-08 00:41 < TheWeasel> the gestures all say "make this sofa longer"
2008-03-08 00:42 < TheWeasel> mboo
2008-03-08 00:46 < TheWeasel> well, I gotta work. I didn't sleep but ya.
2008-03-08 00:46 < TheWeasel> Actually, let's have some breakfast
2008-03-08 00:50 * arcimboldo_ is having lunch
2008-03-08 00:50 * Demi is eating chips
2008-03-08 00:53 < TheWeasel> Aren't timezones wonderful?
2008-03-08 00:54 < arcimboldo_> If they don't force you to go to work in the middle of the night in order to speak to someone in the US ...
2008-03-08 00:56 * zocky is becoming desperate about WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS
2008-03-08 00:56 < TheWeasel> DAMN YOU, TERRESTRIC ROTATION
2008-03-08 00:57 < zocky> when somebody mentions another article in a deletion debate, people shout WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS, even if the mention is perfectly legitimate
2008-03-08 00:57 < arcimboldo_> If it didn't rotate who would get all the sunlight?
2008-03-08 00:57 < Enterprise_Cat> Oh teh noes! Teh Wikipediaz are breaking down!!
2008-03-08 00:57 < Enterprise_Cat> knsq28 2nd tier squid CRITICAL 03-08-2008 05:55:08 43d 0h 48m 10s 3/3 Connection refused
2008-03-08 00:57 < zocky> there's now this idea that each article should be decided exclusively on its own merit, without any reference to any other articles that exist
2008-03-08 00:58 < zocky> which is plainly silly for most if not all purposes
2008-03-08 00:58 < zocky> the fact that every village in US has an article is certainly a good argument for keeping articles about e.g. rwandan villages
2008-03-08 00:59 < TheWeasel> people have great faith into their abstract rules
2008-03-08 00:59 < TheWeasel> I don't think many people would reject a verifiable article on a Rwandan village
2008-03-08 01:00 < zocky> TheWeasel, who knows
2008-03-08 01:00 < Demi> arcimboldo_ - i work in the u.s., and i'm as often up late to talk to people in india as i make europeans stay after work to talk to me
2008-03-08 01:00 < zocky> we've had plenty of arguments about these things
2008-03-08 01:00 < Demi> though obviously i find it a lot more enjoyable to inconvenience europeans
2008-03-08 01:00 < zocky> crap, it's 7am
2008-03-08 01:00 < zocky> i need to get up in 2 hours
2008-03-08 01:01 < quanticle> zocky: Don't go to bed
2008-03-08 01:01 < zocky> anybody have a regular sleep cycle to sell?
2008-03-08 01:01 < quanticle> zocky: If you sleep now, you'll wake up more tired.
2008-03-08 01:01 < Demi> i disagree, a 90-minute sleep cycle can work
2008-03-08 01:01 < quanticle> Demi: Not for everyone. If I sleep less than 4 hours, I wake up more tired than when I went to bed.
2008-03-08 01:01 < zocky> quanticle, I slept for a few hours earlier tonight
2008-03-08 01:02 < Demi> quanticle - well, there's a rhythm to these things, i can believe that
2008-03-08 01:02 < zocky> so I'm not completely wasted, but I could use a couple more hours of sleep
2008-03-08 01:02 < quanticle> zocky: Right. Don't bother. Just stay up and go to bed earlier tomorrow.
2008-03-08 01:02 < Demi> i believe that 3 hours is in a bad zone
2008-03-08 01:02 < Demi> actually, i call for an experiment on zocky
2008-03-08 01:03 < zocky> quanticle, words like "tomorrow" have no meaning to me :)
2008-03-08 01:03 < quanticle> Speaking of sleep, I should be going to bed.
2008-03-08 01:03 * Demi eats madelines
2008-03-08 01:04 * TheWeasel is a fairly steadfast inclusionist and had no problem with the Pokémon pages except that they (and Rambot) were kind of cluttering randompage around 2004/05
2008-03-08 01:04 < Demi> [[List of species in fantasy fiction]]
2008-03-08 01:04 < TheWeasel> hah, we're still on timezones
2008-03-08 01:04 < arcimboldo_> the CNN scrollbar is so uninformative ...
2008-03-08 01:04 < zocky> TheWeasel, I'm undecided on the pokemon
2008-03-08 01:05 < zocky> TheWeasel, IMO, stuff that could go into a table shouldn't be in 100 articles
2008-03-08 01:05 < TheWeasel> true, but the articles were a great deal more sophisticated than the table seems to suggest
2008-03-08 01:06 < zocky> if you get rid of all the unencyclopedic stuff from those articles (i.e. the detailed retelling of various games and animes), there's barely anything left
2008-03-08 01:06 < TheWeasel> I see no reason why it shouldn't be there.
2008-03-08 01:06 < TheWeasel> but that's just me.
2008-03-08 01:06 < arcimboldo_> Ah, not the scrollbar but the headline bar on the TV screen
2008-03-08 01:07 < TheWeasel> I'm probably more with Kelly, minus the cynicism, there.
2008-03-08 01:07 < arcimboldo_> "Fasuba beats Chambers to title"
2008-03-08 01:07 < TheWeasel> haha
2008-03-08 01:07 < TheWeasel> he shoved him until he got up the stairs to claim his title
2008-03-08 01:08 < bumm13> hiya AdamBishop
2008-03-08 01:09 < E_Wing> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:75.47.208.144
2008-03-08 01:09 < AdamBishop> hey
2008-03-08 01:09 < E_Wing> What can you guys say about this?
2008-03-08 01:10 < TheWeasel> E_Wing: Is that English?
2008-03-08 01:10 < Demi> [[List of species in fantasy fiction]] <- i just have to link this again, now AdamBishop's here
2008-03-08 01:10 < E_Wing> Yup
2008-03-08 01:10 < E_Wing> Why?
2008-03-08 01:10 < TheWeasel> 'cause I can't make sense of it.
2008-03-08 01:10 < AdamBishop> did you really have to?
2008-03-08 01:10 < Demi> I HAD TO
2008-03-08 01:11 < Demi> what if add Angels to it (source: The Bible)?
2008-03-08 01:11 < arcimboldo_> in particular the "since this disaster happens a lot who those have been falsely accused " part
2008-03-08 01:11 < Enterprise_Cat> I swear, I did /not/ kill squid knsq28 2nd tier!
2008-03-08 01:11 < AdamBishop> elf -various
2008-03-08 01:11 < AdamBishop> ha
2008-03-08 01:11 < TheWeasel> ya, I have no idea what the bloke is on about, and it's not for lack of trying
2008-03-08 01:12 < TheWeasel> Enterprise_Cat: Well...at least it depends on what your definition of "is" is
2008-03-08 01:12 < AdamBishop> I notice they don't have Bebop from Ninja Turtles on that list\
2008-03-08 01:12 < E_Wing> TheWeasel: On what? My post here or the User Talkpage?
2008-03-08 01:12 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-08 01:12 < AdamBishop> although I can't explain why that immediately came to mind
2008-03-08 01:13 < TheWeasel> the link you gave, if that's your IP.
2008-03-08 01:13 < bumm13> Bebop is a humanoid pig
2008-03-08 01:13 < bumm13> (boar)
2008-03-08 01:13 < E_Wing> Hmm
2008-03-08 01:13 < E_Wing> Well, that is not my IP either.
2008-03-08 01:13 < TheWeasel> oh, fair enough
2008-03-08 01:14 < Demi> AdamBishop - well, they don't have quite a lot
2008-03-08 01:14 < bumm13> hiya Weasel
2008-03-08 01:14 < E_Wing> I thought I need more practice in English though.
2008-03-08 01:14 < AdamBishop> This article was nominated for deletion on January 13, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.
2008-03-08 01:14 < AdamBishop> Contents
2008-03-08 01:14 < Demi> it's kind of a ridiculous list
2008-03-08 01:14 < AdamBishop> of *course* it as
2008-03-08 01:14 < Demi> hell, what's "fantasy"?
2008-03-08 01:14 < TheWeasel> bumm13: Cheers mate.
2008-03-08 01:14 < bumm13> lists are often ridiculous
2008-03-08 01:14 < AdamBishop> was
2008-03-08 01:14 < bumm13> (on WP)
2008-03-08 01:15 * TheWeasel attempts to establish an electric circuit by plugging things into his ears
2008-03-08 01:15 < E_Wing> "...world of Wikipedia of this era"
2008-03-08 01:15 < TheWeasel> I should probably go to bed
2008-03-08 01:15 < bumm13> The Era of Bad Feelings
2008-03-08 01:15 < AdamBishop> 'lists are ridiculous in real life too
2008-03-08 01:15 < AdamBishop> like [[The Book of Lists]]
2008-03-08 01:15 < E_Wing> So that means other Wikipedia existed before ours.
2008-03-08 01:16 < bumm13> naturally
2008-03-08 01:16 < E_Wing> Just joking.
2008-03-08 01:16 < arcimboldo_> Or there will be other after us
2008-03-08 01:16 < Cirt> most contentious list on wikipedia probably = http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_groups_referred_to_as_cults
2008-03-08 01:16 < arcimboldo_> s
2008-03-08 01:16 < Cirt> :P
2008-03-08 01:16 < zocky> yay, a new email scam:
2008-03-08 01:16 < zocky> Dear Friend, I like to inform you about my product , I'm a local gold minner ,i have My own mine company in Ghana West Africa and for your information ,I do have More than 250kg of AU gold dust for sale now, and my price is reasonable compare to the world market price which is $22,000 and above for a KG of 22 carat gold, my price is $13,000 for a kilo. The quality of the gold is 22 carat +, i'm contacting you as regards this offer,if you
2008-03-08 01:16 < zocky> are interested please get back to me ASAP. If you can't buy the gold but can link me up with a buyer,i'm willing to give you some commission for getting me a buyer.
2008-03-08 01:16 < TheWeasel> '''Afterus''' was the first emperor of the re-established Roman Imperium
2008-03-08 01:17 < bumm13> zomg flood!
2008-03-08 01:17 < E_Wing> Tsk
2008-03-08 01:17 < E_Wing> Scam
2008-03-08 01:17 < Demi> "Environmentalism"
2008-03-08 01:17 < Demi> might as well add "Personality" to that list
2008-03-08 01:17 < zocky> tree huggers are definitely a cult
2008-03-08 01:17 < AdamBishop> minning - the act or power of recollecting
2008-03-08 01:18 < AdamBishop> he's a gold recollector!'
2008-03-08 01:18 < E_Wing> And this assignment is killing me.
2008-03-08 01:18 < zocky> just because you have scientific basis for (most of) your beliefs doesn't mean you're not a cult
2008-03-08 01:18 < arcimboldo_> "Political Parties in Jamaica"
2008-03-08 01:18 * TheWeasel once attended a political party, Jamaica-style
2008-03-08 01:18 < mavhc> if you have more than the minimum amount of beliefs you're a cult
2008-03-08 01:19 < Demi> zocky - "Environmentalism" isn't "a group"
2008-03-08 01:19 < E_Wing> I think that IP talkpage is being used as a blog.
2008-03-08 01:19 < bumm13> ALF is a group
2008-03-08 01:19 < Messedrocker> ALF is also a furry dude
2008-03-08 01:19 < mavhc> I believe that the universe has rules and isn't just a giant game being played to trick us, so it's worthwhile trying to work out the rules
2008-03-08 01:19 < bumm13> different "ALF" :)
2008-03-08 01:19 < zocky> demi, it's a "movement"
2008-03-08 01:19 < TheWeasel> Messedrocker: No references to cat-eating please.
2008-03-08 01:20 < mavhc> and also that biscuits are delicious
2008-03-08 01:20 < Demi> yeah, that's a group, so is Earth First and the Sierra Club
2008-03-08 01:20 < CAT> O_o
2008-03-08 01:20 < CAT> OH NOES
2008-03-08 01:20 * CAT holds onto TheWeasel /
2008-03-08 01:20 < Messedrocker> I beg your pardon, TheWiesel?
2008-03-08 01:20 < bumm13> and Greenpeace
2008-03-08 01:20 * CAT sinks his claws into TheWeasel's clothes
2008-03-08 01:20 * TheWeasel can barely breathe
2008-03-08 01:20 < TheWeasel> ALF's favorite dish is cat.
2008-03-08 01:20 < Messedrocker> ah
2008-03-08 01:20 < bumm13> =^o.o^=
2008-03-08 01:20 < zocky> references to cat eating?
2008-03-08 01:20 * CAT snuggles bumm13
2008-03-08 01:20 < Messedrocker> ALF's favorite dish is cat.
2008-03-08 01:20 < zocky> i thought we stopped discussing italy some time ago
2008-03-08 01:20 < bumm13> o.o
2008-03-08 01:20 < TheWeasel> WHOA
2008-03-08 01:20 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-08 01:21 < Demi> "Contemporary architecture" is also not "a group"
2008-03-08 01:21 < TheWeasel> gratuitous Italy bashing
2008-03-08 01:21 < bumm13> mamma mia!
2008-03-08 01:21 * Enterprise_Cat nukes *cat excepting Enterprise_Cat
2008-03-08 01:21 < Demi> i would say a cult has to have boundaries of some kind
2008-03-08 01:21 < TheWeasel> here I go again
2008-03-08 01:21 < TheWeasel> MIKE!
2008-03-08 01:21 < Demi> a notion of membership, not just participation
2008-03-08 01:21 < TheWeasel> Oh, never mind
2008-03-08 01:21 < zocky> Demi, not necessarily, I'd say
2008-03-08 01:21 < zocky> but depends on the definition, i guess
2008-03-08 01:22 < TheWeasel> The Cult was a crappy band
2008-03-08 01:22 < Demi> sure
2008-03-08 01:22 < bumm13> they had a few good songs
2008-03-08 01:22 < zocky> does you definition include the cult of apollo? the cult of roman emperors?
2008-03-08 01:22 < TheWeasel> Or the cult-e-sac?
2008-03-08 01:22 < Demi> probably two definitions for the same word (and in fact the list distinguishes)
2008-03-08 01:23 < AdamBishop> "I was hoping to make a picture of a transformer staring out of a window office from first-person view."
2008-03-08 01:23 < zocky> I don't remember the cult very well
2008-03-08 01:23 < AdamBishop> hahaha
2008-03-08 01:23 < zocky> weren't they some pretentious-darker-emo band?
2008-03-08 01:23 < Demi> AdamBishop - what is that?
2008-03-08 01:24 < AdamBishop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Entertainment#Cybertron.27s_surface
2008-03-08 01:25 < Demi> nice
2008-03-08 01:25 < Demi> well, do you have such a picture? *do you*?!
2008-03-08 01:26 < zocky> Demi, here's one
2008-03-08 01:26 < Demi> "What do you think is the hardest game in the Mario Party series (by hardest, I mean hardest to complete 100%)?"
2008-03-08 01:26 < pengo> i've had a couple of people email me to use my wikipedia photos for various publications recently
2008-03-08 01:27 < zocky> it's a transformer looking out the office window, from the transformer's POV
2008-03-08 01:27 < AdamBishop> there is a guy on the reference desk who watches Fox News all day and then asks questions about this he has JUST SEEN or that JUST HAPPENED
2008-03-08 01:27 < AdamBishop> like, a star went supernova...so ALL LIFE ON EARTH IS GOING TO END
2008-03-08 01:27 < AdamBishop> I hate that guy.
2008-03-08 01:28 < zocky> AdamBishop, "is hillary clinton really satan?"
2008-03-08 01:28 < Lubaf> Random question: Is Frank Miller capable of writing a story that has a female character who isn't a prostitute?
2008-03-08 01:28 < Mike_H> AdamBishop: You mean Champagne Supernover.
2008-03-08 01:28 < zocky> Lubaf, does he want to?
2008-03-08 01:28 < Demi> he's only writing it like he sees it
2008-03-08 01:29 < zocky> Demi, meaning that the only women he has contact with are prostitutes?
2008-03-08 01:30 < Demi> meaning that all women are whores and all men are two-fisted pulp antiheroes
2008-03-08 01:30 < zocky> DYK ... that the writer and spinster Lady Louisa Stuart (pictured) wrote a ballad about cannibal brothers and the fate of a woman who married for money?
2008-03-08 01:30 < Mike_H> <NewsWire> The Globe and Mail: Are there fur-clad virgins prancing about this snowy paradise? - http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/TheGlobeAndMail-National/~3/247774577/
2008-03-08 01:30 < NotACow> nerf!
2008-03-08 01:30 < Mike_H> And this is Canada's newspaper of record!
2008-03-08 01:30 < Lubaf_> Does anybody know?
2008-03-08 01:30 < Mike_H> let's applaud for Canada.
2008-03-08 01:30 < Lubaf_> Or did my last line get lost?
2008-03-08 01:31 < Lubaf_> I'll repeat, as I'm not certain if it got through: Is Frank Miller capable of writing a story that has a female character who isn't a prostitute?
2008-03-08 01:31 < Mike_H> I don't even know who that is.
2008-03-08 01:31 < Lubaf> Mike_H: [[Frank Miller]].
2008-03-08 01:31 < zocky> <zocky> Lubaf, does he want to?
2008-03-08 01:31 < zocky> <Demi> he's only writing it like he sees it
2008-03-08 01:31 < zocky> <zocky> Demi, meaning that the only women he has contact with are prostitutes?
2008-03-08 01:31 < zocky> <Demi> meaning that all women are whores and all men are two-fisted pulp antiheroes
2008-03-08 01:31 < AdamBishop> the Spartan woman in 300 wasn't a prostitute
2008-03-08 01:31 < Lubaf> AdamBishop: She wasn't in the original comic, IIRC.
2008-03-08 01:32 < Lubaf> Or at least, wasn't a speaking part in the comic.
2008-03-08 01:32 < AdamBishop> also, the actress in the movie had the longest nipples I've ever seen
2008-03-08 01:32 < Mike_H> whoa
2008-03-08 01:32 < Mike_H> okay
2008-03-08 01:32 < Mike_H> whoa
2008-03-08 01:32 < AdamBishop> haha
2008-03-08 01:32 < Mike_H> that's about as disgusting as women who have areolas the size of dinner plates
2008-03-08 01:32 < Demi> that was a part that should have played by what's her face
2008-03-08 01:32 < Mike_H> Elizabeth Berkley?
2008-03-08 01:33 < Demi> diane kruger, apparently
2008-03-08 01:33 < Mike_H> Elizabeth Berkley, born July 28, 1972, is an American television, film, and stage actress. She is known for her roles on the television series Saved by the Bell, and the films Showgirls, Any Given Sunday (opposite Al Pacino), and First Wives Club (opposite Goldie Hawn).
2008-03-08 01:33 < AdamBishop> she is not known for the last two
2008-03-08 01:34 < Mike_H> She's known for I'm so excited and her ta-tas
2008-03-08 01:34 < Mike_H> let's be real
2008-03-08 01:34 < AdamBishop> she's so...SCARED
2008-03-08 01:34 < Demi> i can only have sex in a pool now
2008-03-08 01:34 < Mike_H> She's about to lose control
2008-03-08 01:34 < Mike_H> and she thinks she likes it.
2008-03-08 01:35 < Demi> i don't remember the 300 woman's nipples
2008-03-08 01:35 < AdamBishop> she'll do anything to get into Stanbury!
2008-03-08 01:35 < Mike_H> AdamBishop: Do you know she runs a website now, like an advice website for young girls?
2008-03-08 01:35 < Mike_H> http://www.ask-elizabeth.com/
2008-03-08 01:35 < AdamBishop> awesome
2008-03-08 01:36 < Demi> i have no animosity for elizabeth berkley
2008-03-08 01:36 < Demi> she can have a website if she likes
2008-03-08 01:36 < Mike_H> Demi: I just find it a tad hilarious that drifter Nomi Malone's giving advice to today's youth is all.
2008-03-08 01:36 < OverlordQ> lol
2008-03-08 01:36 < zocky> "Dear Elizabeth. How do I get Dwigth from second grade to notice me?" "Dear Polly, shove your nipples and his face and gyrate."
2008-03-08 01:36 < zocky> *in
2008-03-08 01:36 < Isis> some intellectual debate going on here...
2008-03-08 01:37 < Mike_H> btw, her article totally cuts any bad mention of Showgirls out
2008-03-08 01:37 < Mike_H> in fact, the mention of her role in the movie just says
2008-03-08 01:37 < Mike_H> Her first film role was as the star of Paul Verhoeven's film "Showgirls"
2008-03-08 01:37 < Mike_H> Not that it ruined her career for like ten years after that or anything.
2008-03-08 01:38 < Demi> Isis - i blame AdamBishop
2008-03-08 01:38 < zocky> zomg, liz's website should have a warning for diabetics
2008-03-08 01:38 < zocky> that stuff is dangerous
2008-03-08 01:39 < bumm13> Mike_H: it should try to spin her Showgirls experience in a positive light
2008-03-08 01:39 < AdamBishop> yup, always an intellectual debate when I'm around
2008-03-08 01:39 < Isis> what is wikipedia's policy for banning people?
2008-03-08 01:39 < bumm13> saying something like, "The movie is known by many to be a modern-day Valley of the Dolls"
2008-03-08 01:39 < Isis> damn that is a bannable statement
2008-03-08 01:39 < zocky> Mike_H, that pink colour is now permanently burnt into my retina. I hope you're happy.
2008-03-08 01:39 < Mike_H> bumm13: lulz
2008-03-08 01:39 < AdamBishop> we should analyze tropes in Showgirls, and the occurrence of otherness
2008-03-08 01:39 < Mike_H> I put it back in
2008-03-08 01:39 < Mike_H> 01:39, March 8, 2008 Mike Halterman (Talk | contribs | block) (10,421 bytes) (okay, let's be real, she isn't known for the last two movies, and I know there may be some Jessie fans up in here, but her Showgirls flop has to be mentioned, reverting to previous version) (rollback | undo)
2008-03-08 01:40 < bumm13> indeed
2008-03-08 01:40 < Demi> Isis - iirc there's a [[WP:BAN]]
2008-03-08 01:41 < bumm13> Mike_H: if there's any silver lining, it's that she isn't Dustin Diamond :P
2008-03-08 01:41 < Isis> But [[WP:Ban]] doesn't say anything about how admins are allowed to issue unilateral bans
2008-03-08 01:41 < Isis> It consistently refers to the "community"
2008-03-08 01:41 < Mike_H> The movie was heralded as one of the worst ever made, winning seven 1995 Golden Raspberry Awards or "Razzies" (from a record thirteen nominations). Kyle MacLachlan walked out of the movie's premiere, during which he was allegedly heard exclaiming "I thought this was an art movie."
2008-03-08 01:41 < Isis> So I must be missing something
2008-03-08 01:41 < zocky> AdamBishop, we should also study how the symbolism of the fim influences our construction of reality and perpetuates the established social order.
2008-03-08 01:42 < Mike_H> zocky: As in, it's not okay to push Gina Gershon down the stairs just because she makes more money than you do
2008-03-08 01:42 < Isis> It uses phrases like "due consideration of the community" without any definition whatsoever
2008-03-08 01:42 < zocky> Isis, that's intentional
2008-03-08 01:42 < zocky> it's all FUD
2008-03-08 01:42 < Isis> doesn't that invite admin corruption?
2008-03-08 01:43 < zocky> Isis, that's intentional too
2008-03-08 01:43 < Isis> shouldn't the dispute resolution process be followed?
2008-03-08 01:43 < E_Wing> I there a wikipedia article that talks about IP user/usertalk pages and how to deal with them?
2008-03-08 01:43 < Isis> instead of letting rogue admins act as vigilantes in the pursuit of vendettas?
2008-03-08 01:43 < Demi> well, ultimately that means "if no one unblocks you, that's a ban by community consensus"
2008-03-08 01:43 < E_Wing> *Is
2008-03-08 01:43 < Isis> right but the problem is that most blocked users are blocked
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> so they can't contact the community
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> its like throwing someone in prison
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> and then expecting them to find an attorney
2008-03-08 01:44 < zocky> Demi, either that "or nobody could be bothered with the inevitable screaming and accusations if they unblock you"
2008-03-08 01:44 < Mike_H> If someone's going to jail, an attorney is usually provided for them ;)
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> right, you might get retalation against those who unblock you
2008-03-08 01:44 < Demi> zocky - that's not either/or, i'm not saying anything obut motivation
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> does wikipedia provide an attorney? no
2008-03-08 01:44 < Mike_H> Should it?
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> shouldn't it?
2008-03-08 01:44 < Isis> isn't that ethical?
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> doesn't every blocked user deserve representation?
2008-03-08 01:45 < Mike_H> no
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> sounds unethical to me
2008-03-08 01:45 < Mike_H> no user DESERVES anything
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> sounds pretty tyrannical to me
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> pretty ungrateful to
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> since the common users edit everything
2008-03-08 01:45 < Mike_H> Isis: Are you new?
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> i would think they deserve more respect
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> of course not
2008-03-08 01:45 < Isis> im simply asking
2008-03-08 01:45 < zocky> then you know what we all know
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> the vast majority of the users make the vast majority of edits, and the vast majority of them have no influence on wiki-politics
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> You sound like you're new is all. Especially with the Jimmy drama from last week, I thought you would have known better than to hope for idealism.
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> im not asking for idealism
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> Not that I don't agree
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> it's just
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> im asking for bans to follow the dispute resolution process
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> it won't happen
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> that's all
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> its called mediation followed by arbitration
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> its a process
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> why isn't it being followed?
2008-03-08 01:46 < pengo> users deserve credit
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> i'd say so
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> Isis: Because Wikipedia is pretty much broken at this point
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> you know
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> it's sad
2008-03-08 01:46 < Mike_H> but it's true
2008-03-08 01:46 < Isis> it seems certain users would rather have a top-down authoritarian society
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> so if you admit there is a problem
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> why aren't you trying to fix it?
2008-03-08 01:47 < zocky> Isis, because voting is evil, process is evil, consistency is evil, keeping agreements is evil, respect for minority POVs is evil, etc.
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> oh yes
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> no rules right
2008-03-08 01:47 < Mike_H> because I can't jetset to London and ask the Duchess of Pork her opinion on the matter
2008-03-08 01:47 < Demi> you're not asking, you're trying to make a point. you're following a really typical line for banned trolls (which is not to say you are one--i'm pointing out how you sound like one) by asking general questions to try to get people to agree with you about something you think is egregious. why not just state what ban you think is unfair and why?
2008-03-08 01:47 < pengo> there's a problem in the middle east too. you should fix that too.
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> no rules except for those who have to follow rules
2008-03-08 01:47 < Isis> uh oh know im accused of being a trollerist
2008-03-08 01:47 < Messedrocker> isn't isis one of the first people to be banned from wikipedia?
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> first you accuse someone of being a trollerist, then you can throw due process to the side?
2008-03-08 01:48 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: Bells rang throughout the land today as Star Jones became the first person in the world to get married.
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> is that how it works
2008-03-08 01:48 < E_Wing> Looks like someone is planning to remove User:Rschen7754 out from being an admin, eh?
2008-03-08 01:48 < zocky> Isis, the point is, everybody here agrees with you in principle
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> well GOOD
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> so what then?
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> just put up with this broken system?
2008-03-08 01:48 < zocky> Isis, but we've all heard all of that 100s time before
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> or actually fix it?
2008-03-08 01:48 < zocky> and we all tried to fix it at some point
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> well um how hard could it be
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> file a joint arbcom complaint with me
2008-03-08 01:48 < zocky> and we all just learned to ignore the bastards and concentrate on whatever non-politicized area of wikipedia we enjoy
2008-03-08 01:48 < bumm13> meowf!
2008-03-08 01:48 < Isis> how many people have to file an arbcom complaint
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> before they have to at least acknowledge it?
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> ive talked to jimbo on the phone
2008-03-08 01:49 < bumm13> 5,322,709
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> surely he'll agree in principle
2008-03-08 01:49 < Mike_H> bumm13: I'm listening to a really happy song and I love it love it love it
2008-03-08 01:49 * Lubaf wonders how quickly the tiers will be settled for SSBB.
2008-03-08 01:49 < bumm13> which song?
2008-03-08 01:49 < Lubaf> Probably six weeks.
2008-03-08 01:49 * Mike_H NP: Huey Lewis and the News - Power of Love (1985)
2008-03-08 01:49 < bumm13> heh, I remember that song
2008-03-08 01:49 < Mike_H> I'm about to give myself whiplash by chair dancing to it
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> i mean, i dunno
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> im just saying
2008-03-08 01:49 < Isis> the rules say
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> first contact the person with a complain
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> then suggest mediation
2008-03-08 01:50 < Lubaf> Mike_H: The Old Apartment next?
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> then request mediation
2008-03-08 01:50 < zocky> Isis, there are no rules
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> then request arbitration
2008-03-08 01:50 < Mike_H> Lubaf: Eh?
2008-03-08 01:50 < bumm13> Isis: so go do it
2008-03-08 01:50 < Demi> yeah, you sound like someone who would work well in that system
2008-03-08 01:50 < Lubaf> Mike_H: Just a suggestion.
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> if there are no rules?
2008-03-08 01:50 < Mike_H> Lubaf: What about In My House
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> then why are there so many rules?
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> how can there be no rules, and yet 50 million rules?
2008-03-08 01:50 < Isis> or does it differ for different people/
2008-03-08 01:50 < zocky> Isis, rules don't help when the people on the other side think that rules are evil and cannot and do not exist
2008-03-08 01:50 < bumm13> Isis: "why" won't give any clarity to the matter
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> why do they people who believe in no rules make so many rules?
2008-03-08 01:51 < Demi> Isis - why don't you do as i said and actually state what your problem is?
2008-03-08 01:51 < zocky> Isis, ah, they're not "rules"
2008-03-08 01:51 < bumm13> Isis: this isn't #philosophy :P
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> lol
2008-03-08 01:51 < zocky> they're "descriptions of current practice"
2008-03-08 01:51 < Demi> we can all ask all sorts of why questions
2008-03-08 01:51 < Lubaf> Mike_H: Actually, Our House might be a better choice.
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> my problem is all the innocent users getting banned
2008-03-08 01:51 < zocky> which automatically means "policy"
2008-03-08 01:51 < Mike_H> Lubaf: I don't have that one, I don't think
2008-03-08 01:51 < Demi> Isis - such as...?
2008-03-08 01:51 < bumm13> Isis: no, that's not your problem
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> if someone does something wrong, you need to prove it before a jury
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> before just banning them
2008-03-08 01:51 < bumm13> lol
2008-03-08 01:51 < Messedrocker> the arbcom is a jury
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> right
2008-03-08 01:51 < Messedrocker> they evaluate evidence and shit
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> but it doesnt hear the trials
2008-03-08 01:51 < Isis> the cops ban people before it ever gets to court
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> and they never make it to court
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> i want my court tiral
2008-03-08 01:52 < Lubaf> Mike_H: You could just YouTube it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=KEdZrV0j6zM&feature=related
2008-03-08 01:52 < zocky> Isis, anybody can email the arbcom, though
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> i want my court trial
2008-03-08 01:52 < bumm13> Isis: this is a website, not order-keeping in real life
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> this is real life
2008-03-08 01:52 < Demi> Isis - haha, no
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> this is the eighth largest website in the world
2008-03-08 01:52 < bumm13> so?
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> wikipedia matters now
2008-03-08 01:52 < zocky> bumm13, he is correct that it is real life
2008-03-08 01:52 < bumm13> not nearly that much
2008-03-08 01:52 < Demi> don't get spittle on me, please
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> wikipedia needs to start adopting serious policies
2008-03-08 01:52 < The359> This is our Encyclopedia
2008-03-08 01:52 < The359> Hence our rules
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> who are you?
2008-03-08 01:52 < AdamBishop> isis = lir?
2008-03-08 01:52 < Isis> of course
2008-03-08 01:52 < The359> If you don't like them
2008-03-08 01:52 < bumm13> Isis: tackle your individual problem first
2008-03-08 01:52 < zocky> bumm13, the whole idea that real-life rules don't apply to the internet is beyond silly
2008-03-08 01:53 < The359> you shouldn't have signed up
2008-03-08 01:53 < bumm13> zocky: some do
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> my problem is your problem
2008-03-08 01:53 < AdamBishop> ah, Lir
2008-03-08 01:53 < bumm13> not really, no
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> first they came for isis, then they came for lir, then for willyonwheels, and next for you
2008-03-08 01:53 < AdamBishop> I remember now
2008-03-08 01:53 < bumm13> hahaha
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> lol
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> but seriously
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> think about it
2008-03-08 01:53 < The359> They are coming for me?
2008-03-08 01:53 < The359> No
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> wikipedia runs like a fascist state without any trials or anything
2008-03-08 01:53 < The359> Because I'm not a twat
2008-03-08 01:53 < zocky> The359, eventually
2008-03-08 01:53 < The359> We're not a state
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> thats obviously going to encourage blatant corruption from the top-down
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> wikipedia is a state
2008-03-08 01:53 < Isis> wikipedia has a government
2008-03-08 01:54 < Demi> we're only a step away from gassing people, it's true
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> jimbo is a god-king
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> the arbcom is a ministry
2008-03-08 01:54 < The359> And I'm the Queen...
2008-03-08 01:54 < bumm13> Isis: you're focusing on a matter that's somewhat detached from your individual issue
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> the admins are citizens
2008-03-08 01:54 < The359> no
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> and the common users are serfs
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> its pretty obvious
2008-03-08 01:54 < The359> This is not a state
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> lol
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> denial
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> its the 8th largest website in the world
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> think abou tit
2008-03-08 01:54 < zocky> The359, plenty of people who were considered heroes, practially worshipped, and certainly not called twats, have since been chewed up and spit out, and people now openly say very nasty things about them
2008-03-08 01:54 < bumm13> and also *voluntary*
2008-03-08 01:54 * Mike_H NP: James Taylor and J.D. Souther - Her Town Too (1981)
2008-03-08 01:54 < The359> Size has nothing to do with it
2008-03-08 01:54 < bumm13> zomg, you can not edit or read WP!
2008-03-08 01:54 < Demi> zocky - what "rules of real life" are these? that if you act like a jerk, and even sometimes if you don't, people won't invite you into their club? sure.
2008-03-08 01:54 < Isis> wikipedia is a government
2008-03-08 01:54 < The359> uh, no
2008-03-08 01:55 < bumm13> (if one chooses such a choice)
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> when people are banned, they deserve a trial
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> thats moral
2008-03-08 01:55 < AdamBishop> Lir remember when you went through all this three years ago and no one cared then either?
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> yah but they did care
2008-03-08 01:55 < Mike_H> Demi: I'm putting you forth for approval by The Mean Girls Club
2008-03-08 01:55 < Messedrocker> isis, as a piece of advice, people aren't going to listen to you if you shout how evil they are. it's human nature; as true as it is, they'd rather hear all the goodness of reform rather than the badness of the current state
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> im kind of famous in my own way
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> i get fan mail even
2008-03-08 01:55 < Mike_H> you have to answer to Brittany, Tiffany, Jessica, and Lindsay.
2008-03-08 01:55 < bumm13> Isis: go wait out your ban then worry about bigger WP issues
2008-03-08 01:55 * Enterprise_Cat wonders why Isis chose that particular nick
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> obviously i dont have the majority listening to me
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> but i did get 8% vote to the arbcom
2008-03-08 01:55 < Messedrocker> Isis, because you're alienating them
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> so im like ralph nader x 2
2008-03-08 01:55 < E_Wing> Someone is redirecting a userpage to the faggot (slang) artcle.
2008-03-08 01:55 < Isis> double the nader
2008-03-08 01:56 * bumm13 roffles at the removal of the crisco*!* ban
2008-03-08 01:56 < Mike_H> Isis: I stopped listening when you kept talking in whispers and vagueness.
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> well, i never listened to you
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> because you don't believe in jury trials
2008-03-08 01:56 < zocky> Demi, that's one of them, but there's plenty others that are ignored on wikipedia, because they supposedly don't apply
2008-03-08 01:56 < Mike_H> Oh, you told me!
2008-03-08 01:56 < Messedrocker> Isis, don't expect people to listen to you ever if you yell at them.
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> jury trials are a fundamental human right
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> this is basic ethics 101
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> Google is bigger than us
2008-03-08 01:56 < zocky> Demi, sticking to agreements is the main one
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> Are they a government too?
2008-03-08 01:56 < Mike_H> Isis: This is a damn website, not America.
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> people have an inalienable right to representation
2008-03-08 01:56 < bumm13> WP is a website, human rights has little application there
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> uh
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> no
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> inalienable rights are inalienable
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> you don't have rights
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> they apply to wikipedia
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> This is a website
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> i have rights
2008-03-08 01:56 < Mike_H> This is a damn website, not America.
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> If we want to deny you access
2008-03-08 01:56 < The359> we can
2008-03-08 01:56 < Isis> you aren't wikipedia 359
2008-03-08 01:57 < Mike_H> There, I'll repeat it until you stop with your silliness.
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> You don't have free permission to use it
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> you don't have a right to use it
2008-03-08 01:57 < Demi> Mike_H - in america we have unalienable rights, not inalienable ones, anyway. sheesh.
2008-03-08 01:57 < Messedrocker> Isis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Mantanmoreland/Evidence << what does that look like to you?
2008-03-08 01:57 < zocky> guys, bumm13 just proved that, so we can drop it
2008-03-08 01:57 < Mike_H> Demi: the girls are impressed
2008-03-08 01:57 < Mike_H> you are now one of them
2008-03-08 01:57 < Mike_H> your name is now Meredith.
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> Wikipedia is a club
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> Not a government
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> Clubs have memberships that can be revoked when they feel necessary
2008-03-08 01:57 < The359> No matter the circumstances
2008-03-08 01:58 < zocky> there's plenty of stuff wrong with wikipedia, but "human rights" doesn't come into the picture
2008-03-08 01:58 < Messedrocker> no, it's a website with an encyclopedia and a community for making that encyclopedia
2008-03-08 01:58 < AdamBishop> it's okay, it's just Lir. No need to get all discombobulated
2008-03-08 01:58 < bumm13> I proved that ops can +q people for going on and on disruptively in an IRC channel :P
2008-03-08 01:58 < Mike_H> Was that really Lir?
2008-03-08 01:58 < bumm13> /dop
2008-03-08 01:58 < Messedrocker> like a lowell factory has a factory and a community of workers to make that factory
2008-03-08 01:58 < Mike_H> Wasn't he banned when I first came here?
2008-03-08 01:58 < AdamBishop> yeah Lir's year-long ban that actually lasted three years finally expired
2008-03-08 01:58 < Mike_H> Can't he like let it go and get laid or something?
2008-03-08 01:58 < The359> factories usually have unions though, Messedrocker
2008-03-08 01:58 < The359> and rights ;)
2008-03-08 01:58 < zocky> people certainly have some rights on wikipedia
2008-03-08 01:58 < zocky> and it's wrong when those rights are broken and denied
2008-03-08 01:58 < The359> not really
2008-03-08 01:58 < zocky> but they're not "human rights"
2008-03-08 01:59 < bumm13> exactly
2008-03-08 01:59 < The359> they're not guarenteed those rights
2008-03-08 01:59 < zocky> it's a different thing
2008-03-08 01:59 < Demi> the thing is, there are all kinds of ways of generating free, reusable, useful instructional content, when i got tired of dealing with wikipedia i did some of those other things
2008-03-08 01:59 < bumm13> assuming that was Lir, he simply needs to find a useful hobby :P
2008-03-08 02:00 < Demi> i prefer to cast my criticisms of wikipedia in terms of effects on its goal, and i think the general belligerent atmosphere is poisonous to quality, because of the tiny incentive wikipedia can offer for editing
2008-03-08 02:00 * Mike_H NP: Mary Jane Girls - In My House (1985)
2008-03-08 02:00 * Messedrocker sighs at the social retardation of wikipedia editors
2008-03-08 02:00 < AdamBishop> hmm. For some reason, Itunes deleted all my Beatles songs from my Ipod
2008-03-08 02:00 < zocky> Demi, there's also the matter of respect
2008-03-08 02:00 * The359 just thinks there are assholes everywhere, but I hardly think they make the entire Encyclopedia into an asshole
2008-03-08 02:01 < Messedrocker> The359, a barrel of wine with a drop of sewage in it is immediately sewage
2008-03-08 02:01 < AdamBishop> but a barrel of monkeys is still a barrel of monkeys
2008-03-08 02:01 < The359> well that's whine, it's sealed tight
2008-03-08 02:01 < bumm13> Isis isn't Lir, I'm fairly certain
2008-03-08 02:01 < Demi> sweet, people have been greatly expanding the wikibook i started
2008-03-08 02:01 < The359> And if you have other casks, it's a loss, sure
2008-03-08 02:01 < The359> But not a total loss
2008-03-08 02:01 < Messedrocker> Isis is another editor, who was banned
2008-03-08 02:01 < bumm13> right
2008-03-08 02:02 < bumm13> no edits from that user since Feb. 2003
2008-03-08 02:02 * The359 meant wine
2008-03-08 02:02 < AdamBishop> really? I thought they were the same
2008-03-08 02:02 < The359> although whine works too
2008-03-08 02:02 < AdamBishop> like, Lir came back as Isis once
2008-03-08 02:02 < bumm13> no
2008-03-08 02:02 < bumm13> the IP Isis was just using on IRC indicated Texas
2008-03-08 02:02 < bumm13> (and I don't think it was any sort of proxy)
2008-03-08 02:02 < Krimpet> Isis was the first banned user ever, IIRC
2008-03-08 02:03 < bumm13> yes, that sounds correct
2008-03-08 02:03 < bumm13> I mean, geez, 2003 is eons ago in "wiki time"
2008-03-08 02:03 < Messedrocker> the Wikimedia Foundation was founded in 2003
2008-03-08 02:03 < E_Wing> *Found Uchiha23's secret page
2008-03-08 02:03 < Messedrocker> before then, Wikipedia answered to a porn site
2008-03-08 02:04 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-08 02:04 < The359> Is Isis at all connected to Wikipedia Review?
2008-03-08 02:04 < bumm13> a really lame one, at that :P