freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-07 13:40 < NotACow> wikipedia won't see 2010, except maybe as a mostly empty shell.
2008-03-07 13:40 < AdamBishop> yeah NotACow, I agree
2008-03-07 13:40 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - Giano (architecture), Bishy (lit/sweish history), Geogre (lit), Awadewit (lit), Titoxd (meteorology), myself (computing)
2008-03-07 13:40 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: giano is gone.
2008-03-07 13:40 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: or mostly so
2008-03-07 13:40 < Ceiling_Cat> WMC (climate change), Raymond Arrit (climate change)
2008-03-07 13:41 < M1rth> Unfortunately, that's Eleland... who constantly POV wars on israel/palestine articles and somehow gets away with it
2008-03-07 13:41 < Ceiling_Cat> and the list goes on and on
2008-03-07 13:41 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: and several o those others are perpetually on the edge of leaving, too
2008-03-07 13:41 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: and so many of the articles on computing suck something fierce, so you aren't doing your thing
2008-03-07 13:41 < AdamBishop> I don't do very much except answer Reference Desk questions and revert vandalism
2008-03-07 13:41 < M1rth> And I didn't see that kind of edit summary again, either
2008-03-07 13:41 * TheWeasel got caught up in the Gdansk debate my first or second day
2008-03-07 13:41 < Jayron32> No, that dif was FFS m1rth... Eland may or may not deserve sanctions or blocks, but that does NOT excuse comments like that...
2008-03-07 13:42 < M1rth> That diff was TO Eleland, Jayron... Eleland's poisonous
2008-03-07 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - actually, the article on my speciality (parallel computing) is quite good
2008-03-07 13:42 < AdamBishop> it's impossible to keep the crusade articles up to any standard, since they are so popular for amateurs who don't really know anything
2008-03-07 13:42 < M1rth> And FFS was blocked for the summary, and didn't make one like that this time around
2008-03-07 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> I brought it up to GA status and I'll soon be making another run at FA status
2008-03-07 13:42 < NotACow> Jayron32: wikipedia should issue short blocks to everyone in a dispute who has been disruptive. instead they let all but one person go and hit the other with a ten-ton block.
2008-03-07 13:42 < AdamBishop> what's the point of FA anyway?
2008-03-07 13:42 < NotACow> AdamBishop: to stroke egos.
2008-03-07 13:42 < AdamBishop> its standards keep changing, so even if something is FA now, it's meaningless in a year
2008-03-07 13:42 < TheWeasel> I think sometimes it's a public focus on "wedge issues"
2008-03-07 13:43 < TheWeasel> Everyone his own expert there.
2008-03-07 13:43 < Ceiling_Cat> AdamBishop - that was true, to some extent, in the past
2008-03-07 13:43 < AdamBishop> and when we have that stupid ESRB rating article on the main page, I don't even *want* to write FAs
2008-03-07 13:43 < M1rth> If FFS's been "disruptive", I can name a number of other editors who have been disruptive too, even trying to provoke comments of the other side to scream "personal attack"
2008-03-07 13:43 < NotACow> AdamBishop: if they didn't keep changing the standatrds, they wouldn't be able to use arbitrary objections as a tool to retain personal power.
2008-03-07 13:43 < M1rth> and that's just as disruptive as making one
2008-03-07 13:43 < Ceiling_Cat> however, I think the expectations inflation you're talking about has dimished in the last year to 18 months
2008-03-07 13:44 < TheWeasel> NotACow: That's what Confucius recommends.
2008-03-07 13:44 < AdamBishop> I don't know. The expectations have already transformed articles from encyclopedia articles into term papers
2008-03-07 13:44 < TheWeasel> "make laws that are incomprehensible and enforce them as necessary"
2008-03-07 13:44 < Ceiling_Cat> hehe, possibly
2008-03-07 13:44 < NotACow> AdamBishop: in general, most objections on FA, other than plainly obvious ones, are really "You haven't satisfied my need to feel important yet, therefore I will prevent you from obtaining the stats you desire. Once you have sufficiently stroked my ego, I will withdraw my objection and allow you to proceed."
2008-03-07 13:44 < M1rth> I'm starting to believe TheWeasel has it right on that :(
2008-03-07 13:45 < NotACow> AdamBishop: the FA standards are sufficient fuzzy that one can almost always find something objectionable within *any* submission
2008-03-07 13:45 < TheWeasel> all laws have to yield two different results.
2008-03-07 13:45 < TheWeasel> (potentially)
2008-03-07 13:45 < NotACow> TheWeasel: yeah, FA works like that.
2008-03-07 13:46 < TheWeasel> it's like a state outlawing "having a face we don't like"
2008-03-07 13:46 < Jayron32> M1rth, there is nothing to stop him from requesting another unblock. Argueing with me here isn't going to do anything but get your own blood pressure worked up. Let him ask another admin for an unblock; however claiming conspiracies or unfair treatment is unlikely to get a positive response from anyone. If he makes a case that he understands what he did wrong, shows contrition, and indicates he won't do it again he will likely get a good re
2008-03-07 13:46 < AdamBishop> I don't necessarily think it's bad to have "articles" with lots of footnotes and lists of references, but let's not kid ourselves, when we do that, we're no longer writing an encyclopedia
2008-03-07 13:46 < TheWeasel> Brb-
2008-03-07 13:46 < NotACow> AdamBishop: bureaucrats love complex regulation for that very reason
2008-03-07 13:46 < NotACow> AdamBishop: indeed, i find the overcited articles irritating to read.
2008-03-07 13:46 < TheWeasel> AdamBishop: The source lawyering is ridiculous.
2008-03-07 13:46 < TheWeasel> I heartily agree.
2008-03-07 13:47 < NotACow> AdamBishop: and honestly most of the recent FAs have been middling to poor in terms of authorship and style.
2008-03-07 13:47 < AdamBishop> an encyclopedia would have intrinsic authority which would override the need for footnotes. It just proves that we are not authoritative.
2008-03-07 13:47 < NotACow> AdamBishop: the facts are more or less good, but they just read like shit.
2008-03-07 13:47 < M1rth> And wind up getting Yamla yet again? Yamla's liable to block his user page (seriously have you seen how many that guy'
2008-03-07 13:47 < M1rth> s done? he's a menace!)
2008-03-07 13:47 < TheWeasel> Well
2008-03-07 13:47 < TheWeasel> NPOV doesn't really make for good prose.
2008-03-07 13:47 < NotACow> TheWeasel: indeed.
2008-03-07 13:47 < NotACow> TheWeasel: then again, i'm convnced that NPOV doesn't exist.
2008-03-07 13:47 < AdamBishop> yes, and the GA or FA process is not done by "peers". If I submitted, say, the Kingdom of Jerusalem article for "peer review", that would be meaningless
2008-03-07 13:48 < TheWeasel> SEPOV
2008-03-07 13:48 < TheWeasel> "someone else's POV"
2008-03-07 13:48 < AdamBishop> I know this is extremely egotistical, but if there are any other edits capable of reviewing that article, they are not regulars on Peer Review
2008-03-07 13:48 < AdamBishop> (er, editors)
2008-03-07 13:48 < Jayron32> M1rth, No, Yamla is not a menace. Look, there's a way to get unblocked and a way to get your userpage protected. Calling people liars and claiming that everyone is out to get you is a bad idea. Being contrite and showing understanding as to why you were blocked in the first place is a good idea.
2008-03-07 13:48 < NotACow> AdamBishop: peer review is populated mainly by self-important bureaucratic wannabees.
2008-03-07 13:49 < AdamBishop> Peer Review is like the law courts of ancient Athens. Everyone is supposed to show up, but only bored unemployed people who don't know what they're doing are ever there
2008-03-07 13:49 < NotACow> AdamBishop: well, that describes most of wikipedia :)
2008-03-07 13:49 < Demi> luckily that's nothing like our law courts now
2008-03-07 13:49 < Demi> only the finest and most capable citizens serve on juries
2008-03-07 13:49 < bumm13> haha
2008-03-07 13:50 < NotACow> AdamBishop: there are very few people who spend more than a few hours a week on wikipedia that are not either students or unemployed adults.
2008-03-07 13:50 < Jayron32> M1rth, furthermore, you can start a thread at WP:ANI and ask for other admins to comment on this. I am pretty much spent on this issue, and have nothing more to say on it.
2008-03-07 13:50 < TheWeasel> I've never understood why the general populace can attend someone else's trial
2008-03-07 13:50 < TheWeasel> Media, alright
2008-03-07 13:50 < TheWeasel> but random people on the street?
2008-03-07 13:50 < TheWeasel> it supposedly is good for the accused
2008-03-07 13:50 < TheWeasel> I doubt that a lot.
2008-03-07 13:50 < M1rth> Jayron, attacking users who are clearly distraught is unlikely to get them to stand down, and more likely to get them to be even angrier
2008-03-07 13:50 < AdamBishop> haha, right, I remember [[Conrad Black]] objected to the term "jury of his peers", because he thought he was so much better than the rabble serving as his jury
2008-03-07 13:51 < M1rth> Your wording was phrased in a very insulting way and more likely to elicit an angry response
2008-03-07 13:51 < AdamBishop> I love that guy.
2008-03-07 13:51 < M1rth> You completely minimized the concerns the user had, rather than actually looking into the situation and giving any idea why their view on it was/was not correct from where you stood...
2008-03-07 13:52 < M1rth> It's a pity they don't screen admins for tact and good taste :(
2008-03-07 13:52 < TheWeasel> not to mention juries that luckily don't exist here
2008-03-07 13:52 < NotACow> AdamBishop: it is a source of some small civic pride that it was a court in my state and county that put his ass away.
2008-03-07 13:52 < M1rth> something like IRS agents that way, I guess
2008-03-07 13:52 < Jayron32> M1rth, take it to ANI. I am done with this...
2008-03-07 13:52 < M1rth> It's already posted to ANI, Jayron
2008-03-07 13:52 < Jayron32> Good. I'm out.
2008-03-07 13:52 < M1rth> I see where you come from now... unfortunate as your blinders are
2008-03-07 13:53 < NotACow> ANI is such an appropriate acrony considering how that page is stuffed full of assholes.
2008-03-07 13:53 < Phoenix-wiki> so many new peope
2008-03-07 13:53 < NotACow> M1rth: if you want fair treatment on wikipedia you have to have sex with jimmy.
2008-03-07 13:54 < libertad> @info wilfredor
2008-03-07 13:54 < M1rth> Can't I just comp his next visit to a brothel?
2008-03-07 13:54 < Jayron32> That'd work...
2008-03-07 13:54 < M1rth> I promise they're better looking than I am!
2008-03-07 13:55 < M1rth> Probably a lot more flexible, too
2008-03-07 13:57 < AdamBishop> anyway. I am so annoyed by peer review and FA right now because of PHG, who is a horrible editor but managed to write numerous FAs just because he used a lot of books. I wonder how many other FAs are also total crap, but passed peer review because peer review likewise has no idea what it's doing.
2008-03-07 13:57 < M1rth> AdamBiship - doesn't Hanlon's Razor apply to most of Wikipedia? ;)
2008-03-07 13:57 < M1rth> .... including my typoing skills, apparently
2008-03-07 13:58 < AdamBishop> I guess so
2008-03-07 13:59 < AdamBishop> haha, "Any sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice."
2008-03-07 14:00 < M1rth> Seems to be about right... well I'm off to lunch. I need some good thai soup after today's encounters with living proof of hanlon's razor
2008-03-07 14:06 < TheWeasel> AdamBishop: I seen a professor of mine watched by a benchmarker who was supposed to rate him
2008-03-07 14:07 < TheWeasel> later he said he'd spoken to that controller and found out that he had had no idea what was going on
2008-03-07 14:07 < TheWeasel> but benchmarking is all the rage now
2008-03-07 14:08 < TheWeasel> hehe
2008-03-07 14:09 < TheWeasel> "The pessimist thinks a glass is half-full. The optimist thinks it's half-empty. The engineer thinks it's two times too big."
2008-03-07 14:09 < zvook> good writing tends to be looked on with a certain suspicion. a lot of times examples of it get reworked, probably on the basis that it is somehow "unencyclopedic"
2008-03-07 14:09 < TheWeasel> Yep
2008-03-07 14:09 < TheWeasel> And it often enough is
2008-03-07 14:09 < TheWeasel> colorful writing always gives away the writer
2008-03-07 14:10 < TheWeasel> and NPOV articles are supposed to sound as if they'd been written by the same person
2008-03-07 14:10 < zvook> yes, but a consistent tone is a seperate issue
2008-03-07 14:10 < TheWeasel> I don't think most people can keep those apart.
2008-03-07 14:11 < zvook> then again, it's easier to rework a portion of good writing than it is to bring the rest of an article to that standard :D
2008-03-07 14:12 < TheWeasel> People also just delete stuff without adding anything.
2008-03-07 14:13 < zvook> how's Nebraska doing on de? :D
2008-03-07 14:13 < TheWeasel> Still semiprotected for a nonsense rationale
2008-03-07 14:14 < TheWeasel> by far the worst of the state articles
2008-03-07 14:14 < TheWeasel> by now
2008-03-07 14:14 < TheWeasel> because nobody dares touch it
2008-03-07 14:15 < TheWeasel> de has a relaxed way to sourcing though as well as to NPOV
2008-03-07 14:15 < TheWeasel> *attitude
2008-03-07 14:15 < TheWeasel> it works well enough
2008-03-07 14:15 < TheWeasel> I've seen very few truly horrible bloopers
2008-03-07 14:15 < TheWeasel> or even malicious misinformation
2008-03-07 14:16 < TheWeasel> sometimes there's a bit of speculation
2008-03-07 14:16 < TheWeasel> but it only adds to the quaintness, really
2008-03-07 14:17 < zvook> heh
2008-03-07 14:19 < NotACow> TheWeasel: i think dewiki has a muc more sensible attitude toward the entire process
2008-03-07 14:19 < NotACow> TheWeasel: enwiki is overrun by people who are unable to appreciate concepts like "nuance"
2008-03-07 14:19 * TheWeasel nods
2008-03-07 14:19 < TheWeasel> yea. Well, de.wiki is kind of cold at times
2008-03-07 14:20 < TheWeasel> people don't get told what they do wrong
2008-03-07 14:20 < NotACow> one of the reasons i stopped working on enwiki is the tendency of people to just trash stuff they don't like the looks of
2008-03-07 14:20 < TheWeasel> there isn't an awful lot of communication
2008-03-07 14:20 < TheWeasel> That happens as well, mostly with "silly and immature" as a rationale
2008-03-07 14:20 < TheWeasel> but it's not as pervasive
2008-03-07 14:20 < NotACow> TheWeasel: talking to people is too much work.
2008-03-07 14:21 < TheWeasel> heh...
2008-03-07 14:21 < TheWeasel> I dunno
2008-03-07 14:21 < NotACow> more importantly, trying to see something through someone else's eyes is too much work
2008-03-07 14:23 < Mike_H> University of North Carolina student body president murdered
2008-03-07 14:24 < Mike_H> Emotions are still raw at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, where the popular student body president, Eve Carson, was gunned down earlier this week in a case that puzzles police investigators.
2008-03-07 14:25 < TheWeasel> the second amendment eats its children.
2008-03-07 14:25 < Jayron32> indeed mike. It's all that's on the tv here in NC...
2008-03-07 14:26 < NotACow> how many dead bodies before we can pry your gun away, again?
2008-03-07 14:26 < Mike_H> Jayron32: I just put it on third lead at Wikinews
2008-03-07 14:26 < Mike_H> so out of the four leads
2008-03-07 14:26 < Mike_H> the first one is a bombing
2008-03-07 14:26 < Mike_H> and the other three are shootings
2008-03-07 14:26 < Mike_H> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Main_Page
2008-03-07 14:27 < NotACow> Mike_H: today is apparently a good day to die
2008-03-07 14:28 < Mike_H> or this week at least
2008-03-07 14:32 < Jayron32> AH, mike... News is so refreshing... So basically, Wikinews is exactly like every news service, print or broadcast, in the entire english speaking world. Death and destruction and not much els.
2008-03-07 14:32 < Mike_H> Jayron32: We bumped the Cynthia McKinney interview to put up the Eve Carson story
2008-03-07 14:32 < Mike_H> which, really, Cynthia McKinney, ehhhh....
2008-03-07 14:32 < morwen> hello
2008-03-07 14:32 < Mike_H> I know you're in NC
2008-03-07 14:32 < morwen> so, should i run for dictator?
2008-03-07 14:32 < Mike_H> but she's not very well-regarded in Georgia (her old representative state in Congress)
2008-03-07 14:33 < Jayron32> Eh...
2008-03-07 14:34 < Jayron32> I was just mostly pissed they bumped Jeopardy last night to run extra coverage of the Eve Carson candlelight vigil. Yes, it sucks she was shot, but this is RWG syndrome to the MAX...
2008-03-07 14:35 < Mike_H> Jeopardy will be rerun in like June anyway
2008-03-07 14:35 < Mike_H> They can't rerun her death in June
2008-03-07 14:35 < Mike_H> 4 teh ratingz lulz
2008-03-07 14:36 < Jayron32> Yeah, RWG = ratings bonanza...
2008-03-07 14:37 < Jayron32> we have an article on it at Wikipedia by the way: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_white_woman_syndrome
2008-03-07 14:37 < Mike_H> Well, she's not missing
2008-03-07 14:37 < Mike_H> just dead.
2008-03-07 14:38 < Jayron32> Yeah, but the article covers that quite well. I am sure someone was shot in inner city Durham in the past week. We didn't get that kinda coverage...
2008-03-07 14:38 < AdamBishop> who is Eve Carson?
2008-03-07 14:38 < Jayron32> Student Body President of the University of North Carolina. Shot dead yesterday
2008-03-07 14:39 < AdamBishop> oh. Hey did they ever find Natalie Holloway
2008-03-07 14:39 < Jayron32> DNDC
2008-03-07 14:39 < Jayron32> DKDC rather...
2008-03-07 14:40 < AdamBishop> hey Mike_H, do you watch American Idol
2008-03-07 14:41 < Mike_H> not anymore
2008-03-07 14:42 < AdamBishop> oh. I'm trying to find out what song they were all dancing to at the end of the episode where the final contestants were chosen (on Feb. 9, I think)
2008-03-07 14:42 < Mike_H> AdamBishop: YouTube?
2008-03-07 14:45 < TheWeasel> oh yea, pretty white girl.
2008-03-07 14:45 < TheWeasel> You probably don't amount to much in student government unless you're hot
2008-03-07 14:46 < AdamBishop> I'm surprised there is no [[I'm Fucking Matt Damon]] article
2008-03-07 14:47 < TheWeasel> just like much of Guevara's following is down to his good looks
2008-03-07 14:48 < NotACow> TheWeasel: che's dead, dude.
2008-03-07 14:48 < TheWeasel> Well, good looks on that one ubiquitous picture
2008-03-07 14:51 * NotACow officially declares that anyone who is today attracted to che guevera is one sick puppy
2008-03-07 14:52 < AdamBishop> I do not find that picture particularly attractive
2008-03-07 14:53 < TheWeasel> Many females in my class fell for the mojo of it all.
2008-03-07 14:54 < TheWeasel> not because they were particularly political or even understood communism
2008-03-07 14:54 < TheWeasel> hot guys with guns seem to be fascinating enough
2008-03-07 14:55 < NotACow> TheWeasel: what about cows with guns?
2008-03-07 14:55 < TheWeasel> if they're hot...
2008-03-07 14:56 < TheWeasel> For the benefit of Aspies, I should add a :-P
2008-03-07 14:59 * TheWeasel wanted to look something football-related up, and entered "foodball" as a search term
2008-03-07 15:01 * TheWeasel split that infinitive but good
2008-03-07 15:01 < Demi> mmm... foodball
2008-03-07 15:05 < NotACow> WE WILL EAT YOUR CHILDREN
2008-03-07 15:05 < NotACow> NotATroll: you don't fool us.
2008-03-07 15:06 < NotACow> TheWeasel: did you find anything?
2008-03-07 15:06 < NotATroll> I can try
2008-03-07 15:06 < NotACow> TheWeasel: apparently foodball is a chain restaurant in barcelona
2008-03-07 15:07 < NotACow> TheWeasel: operated by a shoe company
2008-03-07 15:07 < TheWeasel> they've got this amazing *good* fast food thing going on there
2008-03-07 15:07 < NotACow> i dunno
2008-03-07 15:07 < NotACow> i would be worried about the food being made from bits of leftover shoe leather
2008-03-07 15:08 < NotACow> sole of sole
2008-03-07 15:08 < NotACow> filet of sole, and i don't mean fish
2008-03-07 15:08 < TheWeasel> Most steaks you get in tourist restaurants are like that.
2008-03-07 15:11 < TheWeasel> But that could make for humorous effect
2008-03-07 15:13 < Golbez> wow
2008-03-07 15:13 < TheWeasel> Soles Feast, $10 Per Person, Come Now
2008-03-07 15:13 < Golbez> Colombia saying they've managed to kill a second member of the FARC secretariat
2008-03-07 15:13 < Golbez> two in one week, compared to none in 44 years of trying
2008-03-07 15:15 < Demi> Golbez - after 44 years, they probably move pretty slow
2008-03-07 15:16 < Golbez> our article is already updated
2008-03-07 15:16 < Golbez> Iván Ríos, killed March 7
2008-03-07 15:16 < Golbez> ironically: he was their peace negotiator
2008-03-07 15:16 < NotACow> DEATH TO TERRORISTS
2008-03-07 15:16 < NotACow> Golbez: haha
2008-03-07 15:16 < Golbez> "Peace Negotiator, Head of Central Bloc"
2008-03-07 15:17 < TheWeasel> DEATH TO KILLING
2008-03-07 15:17 < SarahEmm> is this an appropriate place to ask a question about tagging images with templates copyright-wise? never used IRC w.r.t. wikipedia stuff..
2008-03-07 15:18 < Cyrius> appropriate, yes
2008-03-07 15:18 < TheWeasel> Ya.
2008-03-07 15:18 < Cyrius> you might not get a useful answer
2008-03-07 15:18 < zvook> i was reading all the international condemnation of colombia's excursions into ecuador, and then Bush expressing "surprise" that a sovereign nation would object
2008-03-07 15:19 < SarahEmm> okay. worth a try anyway ;) there's an image that was uploaded in a non-ideal format (jpeg for line art), plus tagged 'i release this into public domain' when it's a copyrighted company logo. i've uploaded a new one (in PNG) with proper fair-use rationale and switched the article to use that one.. what do i do with the old one?
2008-03-07 15:20 < zvook> of course there's a US relationship with colombia going back a ways, with arms sales and teaching of torture techniques and whatnot
2008-03-07 15:20 < Cyrius> tag it for deletion in some manner
2008-03-07 15:20 < SarahEmm> Cyrius: yes, that's what i can't figure out. all the tags either refer to it being a fairuse-tagged-image without rationale and such.. should i just pick one that i think is the closest then?
2008-03-07 15:21 < AltiusBimm> am I spelling "aliopath" wrong? I only get 10 Google hits
2008-03-07 15:21 < Golbez> What does it mean
2008-03-07 15:21 < SarahEmm> AltiusBimm: do you mean allopath?
2008-03-07 15:21 < AltiusBimm> ahha!
2008-03-07 15:22 < AltiusBimm> SarahEmm, Golbez: yeah there we go! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allopathic_medicine
2008-03-07 15:22 < Golbez> yep
2008-03-07 15:22 < AltiusBimm> SarahEmm, Golbez: thanks! :D
2008-03-07 15:22 < SarahEmm> np :)
2008-03-07 15:23 < SarahEmm> AltiusBimm: i just messed with the spelling until google gave me a 'did you mean' :)
2008-03-07 15:23 < Sfan00> Good evening
2008-03-07 15:23 < Cyrius> SarahEmm: you could just list it at [[WP:IFD]]
2008-03-07 15:23 < AltiusBimm> SarahEmm: haha, nice!
2008-03-07 15:23 < TheWeasel> I hate how Google tinkers with my search terms
2008-03-07 15:23 < SarahEmm> Cyrius: ahh. that seems the best choice in this case, thanks :)
2008-03-07 15:25 < AltiusBimm> TheWeasel: in what ways?
2008-03-07 15:26 < TheWeasel> changing it because it is *sure* I misspelt it unintentionally
2008-03-07 15:26 < AltiusBimm> TheWeasel: lol
2008-03-07 15:27 < NotACow> HAGGIS ALERT
2008-03-07 15:30 * TheWeasel considers taking a ride
2008-03-07 15:30 < TheWeasel> Iwasaloneitookarideididntknowwhatiwouldfindthere
2008-03-07 15:36 * Messedrocker throws haggis at kelly martin
2008-03-07 15:42 < TheWeasel> "She added, "My dad has been a Scientologist for 20 years. He's the best man that I know in my life and so, it's weird to me that people want to paint it in a negative way."[35]"
2008-03-07 15:42 < TheWeasel> Huh?
2008-03-07 15:43 < TheWeasel> Whats being a nice guy having to do with anything?
2008-03-07 15:43 < TheWeasel> (J.Lo. FIY)
2008-03-07 15:43 < yao_ziyua1> yesterday i said the first class of people, defense executives and shareholders, are suppressing the second and third classes
2008-03-07 15:43 < TheWeasel> *YI
2008-03-07 15:43 < yao_ziyua1> i was not quite right
2008-03-07 15:43 < yao_ziyua1> because defense companies also have competition
2008-03-07 15:44 < yao_ziyua1> they're different from microsoft in its heyday. and bill gates isn't the number one rich in the world now
2008-03-07 15:45 < Mike_H> #
2008-03-07 15:45 < Mike_H> # Tomorrow: Windy. Cloudy skies will become partly cloudy in the afternoon. High 62F. Winds WNW at 25 to 35 mph.
2008-03-07 15:45 < Mike_H> It's currently 86 right now.
2008-03-07 15:45 < NotACow> Mike_H: toasty
2008-03-07 15:46 < Ceiling_Cat> hrm
2008-03-07 15:46 < Ceiling_Cat> I just got an emailed death threat sent to me and the other WMF press contacts in the USA
2008-03-07 15:47 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: how lame
2008-03-07 15:47 < Ceiling_Cat> (from someone not happy about his article)
2008-03-07 15:47 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: why would anyone threaten a WMF press contact?
2008-03-07 15:47 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - no, this guy really does have a history - his article says he's has two felony stalking convictions
2008-03-07 15:47 < NotACow> tell him to go have sex with jimmy
2008-03-07 15:47 < Mike_H> I lol'd.
2008-03-07 15:47 < yao_ziyua1> s/suppress/oppress
2008-03-07 15:47 < Sfan00> CelingCat: passed to the authorities I hope
2008-03-07 15:48 < Ceiling_Cat> Who, exactly?
2008-03-07 15:48 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: well, does he, or not?
2008-03-07 15:48 < Sfan00> Police and WP:OFFICE?
2008-03-07 15:48 < NotACow> Sfan00: WP:OFFICE? you might as well notify the toilet in the starboard programmer's restroom
2008-03-07 15:49 < Ceiling_Cat> oh, the office is well aware
2008-03-07 15:49 < Sfan00> Well if the foundation is getting Death Threats the office needs to know
2008-03-07 15:49 < Ceiling_Cat> this is the second death threat he's sent
2008-03-07 15:49 < NotACow> Sfan00: meh, the office only care about scheduling the next party.
2008-03-07 15:49 < Sfan00> Well then I assume the authorities will be providing him with appropriate care soon enough then :)
2008-03-07 15:50 < Sfan00> And ensuring the expense account is accounted for?
2008-03-07 15:50 < NotACow> Sfan00: nah, they won't notify the authorities; instaed, they'll turn it over to the Wikimedia Counterstalking Team
2008-03-07 15:50 < Golbez> is anyone here familiar with St. Jon'
2008-03-07 15:50 < Golbez> er
2008-03-07 15:50 < Golbez> is anyone here familiar with St. John's, NL?
2008-03-07 15:50 < NotACow> NL?
2008-03-07 15:50 < NotACow> national league?
2008-03-07 15:50 < Sfan00> Netherlands?
2008-03-07 15:50 < Golbez> Newfounland and Labrador
2008-03-07 15:51 < Golbez> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/St.John%27s_NFLD.jpg - what is that horrifically huge house-like building? Straight up from the blue ship.
2008-03-07 15:51 < NotACow> Golbez: interesting whatever it is
2008-03-07 15:51 < Golbez> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Stjohnsnewfoundland.jpg - from another angle, it looks even bigger!
2008-03-07 15:51 < NotACow> Golbez: nice pano, too
2008-03-07 15:52 < NotACow> now that second one kinda sucks
2008-03-07 15:52 < NotACow> the pano seam is reall obvious
2008-03-07 15:52 < NotACow> NARVAGOOG
2008-03-07 15:53 < Golbez> i must find this out
2008-03-07 15:57 < Golbez> looking in google earf
2008-03-07 15:58 < Golbez> aha - [[The Rooms]]
2008-03-07 15:58 < Golbez> The facility was officially opened on June 29, 2005. The building's architecture and name is a reference to the simple gable-roofed sheds (called "fishing rooms") that were once so common at the waterline in Newfoundland fishing villages.
2008-03-07 15:59 < Golbez> I find it utterly hideous but if the newfies love it, more power to em
2008-03-07 15:59 < Demi> it looks like a Playmobil building got dropped on the town
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> I know, right?
2008-03-07 16:00 < AltiusBimm> is there a wikicode method for blockquote? as in a box that is isolated from the rest of the page. I find that putting a space in front of the text makes it offset like a code block, but that does not do wordwrap.
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> And it's so huge. Not just tall, but bulky.
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> AltiusBimm
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> go to [[Template:quote]]
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> at the bottom, there's a list of other quote templates
2008-03-07 16:00 < Golbez> one is surely what you're looking for
2008-03-07 16:01 < Golbez> also, [[Category:Quotation_templates]]
2008-03-07 16:01 < AltiusBimm> Golbez: woot, thanks!
2008-03-07 16:01 < Golbez> To answer your question directly: No, I don't think there's a simple wikicode, you have to use a template or manually do div stuff.
2008-03-07 16:04 < Turelion> Hi
2008-03-07 16:11 < TheWeasel> Back
2008-03-07 16:17 < Sfan00> Hi i have a fact based question to ask
2008-03-07 16:18 < Sfan00> Can I ask it here?
2008-03-07 16:18 < compwhizii> Sfan00, go
2008-03-07 16:18 < Sfan00> Where can I buy a robot costume at a reasonable price?
2008-03-07 16:18 < compwhizii> no
2008-03-07 16:18 < compwhizii> This isn't wal-mart
2008-03-07 16:19 < compwhizii> this is wikipedia
2008-03-07 16:19 < Turelion> try eBay
2008-03-07 16:19 < Sfan00> Turelion: I tried Ebay
2008-03-07 16:19 < TheWeasel> the combination of you and such a costume humours me... I think it's easier to make it yourself.
2008-03-07 16:19 < TheWeasel> I'd say
2008-03-07 16:20 < Sfan00> The level of 'crap' and fraud involvement with Ebay make me wary of byuing via it
2008-03-07 16:20 < TheWeasel> I've never had any trouble.
2008-03-07 16:20 < Sfan00> Until of course Ebay and PayPal REALLy clean up thier act...
2008-03-07 16:20 < Sfan00> And stop dealing with China
2008-03-07 16:20 < TheWeasel> Everyone is dealing with China now.
2008-03-07 16:20 < TheWeasel> it's jolly well impossible to avoid that, odious as it is
2008-03-07 16:20 < Sfan00> As well as really tackling the issue of knock-off items
2008-03-07 16:21 < Sfan00> The number of 'unlicensed' spiedy suits I've seen makes me really angry
2008-03-07 16:21 < Sfan00> *Spidey
2008-03-07 16:21 < TheWeasel> its not yours to be angry, just to avoid
2008-03-07 16:21 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-07 16:22 < Sfan00> True, but ebay could do more to promote 'responsible' sellers over the crooks
2008-03-07 16:22 < TheWeasel> courts are dealing with the issue of stolen goods from ebay rather sensibly here
2008-03-07 16:22 < Sfan00> Buyer beware?
2008-03-07 16:22 < TheWeasel> everyone can always do more, but it's impossible to prevent all abuse at that size
2008-03-07 16:22 < TheWeasel> Not necessarily
2008-03-07 16:22 < TheWeasel> they found pretty good rules
2008-03-07 16:23 < Sfan00> Indeed.. except paradoxically in the US, where doing anything seems to mean you have to be GOD to avoid liabiliity for 'all abuses'
2008-03-07 16:23 < TheWeasel> I dunno how it is between private citizens
2008-03-07 16:23 < Messedrocker> the weasel the peasel
2008-03-07 16:23 < TheWeasel> Ein Wiesel
2008-03-07 16:24 < TheWeasel> saß auf einem Kiesel
2008-03-07 16:24 < Demi> i gots a weasel
2008-03-07 16:24 < TheWeasel> inmitten Bachgeriesel
2008-03-07 16:24 < Messedrocker> Elie Wiesel?
2008-03-07 16:24 < TheWeasel> He too.
2008-03-07 16:24 < Sfan00> In any case Ebay's going to be in for a nasty shock once the EU people start looking at it's relationship to PayPal
2008-03-07 16:24 < zvook> <Sfan00> The number of 'unlicensed' spidey suits I've seen makes me really angry
2008-03-07 16:24 < Sfan00> <evil grin>
2008-03-07 16:24 < zvook> i can't really believe you typed that
2008-03-07 16:24 < yao_ziyua1> how does the general american public think of their tax money goes to the defense industry?
2008-03-07 16:25 < yao_ziyua1> s/goes/going
2008-03-07 16:25 < Messedrocker> i don't pay taxes
2008-03-07 16:25 < Messedrocker> but i am not pleased about it
2008-03-07 16:25 < Sfan00> zvook: If you value a charcter enough to get a costume, surely you value it enough to pay for 'licensed' merchandise over unlicesned knock offs?
2008-03-07 16:25 < Demi> yao_ziyua1 - i'd feel a lot better about it if they sent me some guns and the occasional fighter jet
2008-03-07 16:25 < Demi> free samples for all, i say
2008-03-07 16:25 < TheWeasel> EBay isn't under EU law in all places
2008-03-07 16:25 < Golbez> yao_ziyua1- they're generally happy they are protected by the world's largest military
2008-03-07 16:25 < Sfan00> Demi: You have the Second Ammendment
2008-03-07 16:26 < Golbez> and that we can fix almost every problem that doesn't involve paul bremer
2008-03-07 16:26 < Golbez> or vietnam
2008-03-07 16:26 < TheWeasel> or FEMA
2008-03-07 16:26 < Golbez> FEMA was civilian
2008-03-07 16:26 < Sfan00> Speaking of which, Hasn't some Arms dealr just been busted big time?
2008-03-07 16:26 < Golbez> from what I understand, the military aspect of the Katrina recovery was the only bright point
2008-03-07 16:26 < TheWeasel> I think most ebay stuff is handled in Switzerland
2008-03-07 16:26 < TheWeasel> but I dunno
2008-03-07 16:27 < Sfan00> Katrina was a massive disaster in the US
2008-03-07 16:27 < Sfan00> Of course I hope FEMA has drought planning
2008-03-07 16:27 < Messedrocker> and like the irak war
2008-03-07 16:27 < Sfan00> ...
2008-03-07 16:27 < Messedrocker> it was poorly managed
2008-03-07 16:27 < Messedrocker> so it was a catastrophe
2008-03-07 16:27 < Sfan00> Dorught's in the Southern US have more potential to cause widespread issues, as well as civil unrest
2008-03-07 16:28 < Cyrius> the catastrophic elements of katrina could have been avoided through sane long-term policies
2008-03-07 16:28 < Messedrocker> "droughts"
2008-03-07 16:28 < Sfan00> Cyrius: Like?
2008-03-07 16:28 < Sfan00> You can't exactly tell Americans NOT to build on flodd plains and mangrove
2008-03-07 16:28 < Cyrius> not channeling the silt-laden runoff of the mississippi out to sea, thus aggravating erosion?
2008-03-07 16:29 < Cyrius> not building levees around swamps, draining the swamps, and then allowing the sale and construction on the below sea-level land that results?
2008-03-07 16:29 < Sfan00> New Orleans has been below Sea Level for YEARS
2008-03-07 16:29 * TheWeasel plays draughts
2008-03-07 16:30 < TheWeasel> of course you can.
2008-03-07 16:30 < TheWeasel> you just don't want to
2008-03-07 16:30 < Messedrocker> Sfan00, years?
2008-03-07 16:30 < TheWeasel> entrepreneurial spirit and all
2008-03-07 16:30 < Messedrocker> I thought it was below sea level for like... forever
2008-03-07 16:30 < Cyrius> discouraging people from building in proven vulnerable areas along the coasts like those destroyed in both hurricane camille and katrina?
2008-03-07 16:30 < Sfan00> How old is New Orleans?
2008-03-07 16:30 < Cyrius> Sfan00: wtf part of "long term" confused you?
2008-03-07 16:30 < NotASpy> not as old as Old Orleans, one would presume.
2008-03-07 16:30 < Messedrocker> Sfan00, the age of the city is irrelevant. the land itself is older
2008-03-07 16:30 * eth01 waves :)
2008-03-07 16:31 < Cyrius> the levees are not hundreds of years old
2008-03-07 16:31 < Cyrius> the old parts of the city are the highest
2008-03-07 16:31 < Sfan00> You can't apply todays long term understandings to sya the 18th Century
2008-03-07 16:31 < Miranda> Sfan00: um prob. 400 years
2008-03-07 16:31 < Miranda> french claimed it in the 17th century
2008-03-07 16:31 * Miranda goes back into hiding
2008-03-07 16:31 < Sfan00> And telling Americans to noy build on the coast, is restricting thier ability to enjoy the coast :)
2008-03-07 16:32 < Cyrius> the age of the city of new orleans is irrelevant
2008-03-07 16:32 < Miranda> it was a major port city
2008-03-07 16:32 < Messedrocker> Cyrius, i already said that
2008-03-07 16:32 < Cyrius> sorry
2008-03-07 16:32 < Messedrocker> with almost that exact phrasing :D
2008-03-07 16:32 < Cyrius> yes yes
2008-03-07 16:32 < Sfan00> Sure you can tell people, NO Don't build on the swamp, etc...
2008-03-07 16:33 < NotASpy> Sfan00: you'll be needing a DeLorean then.
2008-03-07 16:33 < Sfan00> but do you have the politicla clout with an election coming up to tell the propety developer willing to fund your campaign that you don't want this money?
2008-03-07 16:33 < Cyrius> how about not bailing out people who build in stupid areas?
2008-03-07 16:33 < Cyrius> how about not bailing out people who _rebuilt_ in stupid areas?
2008-03-07 16:33 < Cyrius> Sfan00: oh, lack of ethics, great
2008-03-07 16:33 < Sfan00> Cyrius: What choice do the non-rich population actually have?
2008-03-07 16:34 < Cyrius> ...what!?
2008-03-07 16:34 < Sfan00> Look at how say te African American population lost out in New Orleans...
2008-03-07 16:34 < NotASpy> do we have to ?
2008-03-07 16:34 < Sfan00> It's claimed some areas were 'ethnical'y cleansed ost Katrina
2008-03-07 16:34 < Sfan00> 8post
2008-03-07 16:34 < Sfan00> *post
2008-03-07 16:34 < Cyrius> I have no idea what point you are trying to make
2008-03-07 16:34 < Cyrius> the land was created artificially
2008-03-07 16:34 < Cyrius> it should not have been
2008-03-07 16:35 < Cyrius> it was unsuitable for construction, construction should not have been allowed
2008-03-07 16:35 < Sfan00> I am saying you can't not bail out some people, who are forced onto unsutiable lands by bad managment
2008-03-07 16:35 < Cyrius> they shouldn't have been there in the first place
2008-03-07 16:35 < Sfan00> By all means peanlise the bad landlords and Housing Admin types who shouldn't have built there...
2008-03-07 16:35 < Sfan00> or who supported unsuitable projects
2008-03-07 16:35 < Cyrius> I am talking about how this could have been avoided, not what should be done now
2008-03-07 16:36 < Cyrius> but no, you want to ramble about social inequality
2008-03-07 16:36 < Sfan00> but don't penalise ordinary Americans forced by cricumstances
2008-03-07 16:36 < Sfan00> Cyrius: OK
2008-03-07 16:36 < Sfan00> That said, I agree with you that some building in that areas clearly wasn't suitable...
2008-03-07 16:37 < Sfan00> I've heard some people say New Orleans ought to be abandoned, and moved to higher ground...
2008-03-07 16:37 < Cyrius> they could pull a galveston and raise the city, but nobody would spend the money
2008-03-07 16:38 < Sfan00> Galveston was artifcally raised?
2008-03-07 16:38 < Cyrius> yes
2008-03-07 16:38 < Messedrocker> that's a neat idea
2008-03-07 16:38 < Messedrocker> leave the old city behind
2008-03-07 16:38 < Messedrocker> then the abandoned city could be a tourist attraction
2008-03-07 16:39 < Sfan00> In fact some other countries have 'abandoned' setllements to the sea...
2008-03-07 16:40 < Sfan00> Look at parts of the UK coast for example...
2008-03-07 16:40 < TorstenK> hi
2008-03-07 16:41 < TorstenK> http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/Techcrunch/~3/247565927/
2008-03-07 16:41 < Sfan00> On something else entirly the Glaveston article has triggered something...
2008-03-07 16:42 < zvook> jimmy webb fans rioting
2008-03-07 16:42 < Golbez> The main way to prevent death and destruction on the coasts is to stop subsidizing their insurance
2008-03-07 16:43 < Golbez> if people had to pay the true insurance costs of living there, they wouldn't keep around crappy houses. On the flip side, if flood insurance weren't handled federally, a lot fewer people would have been screwed over for only having wind-damage policies.
2008-03-07 16:43 < Cyrius> gotta agree with not subsidizing people
2008-03-07 16:44 < Golbez> if we didn't subsidize people living in flood plains
2008-03-07 16:44 < Cyrius> I don't even know why flood insurance is federal
2008-03-07 16:44 < Golbez> either a lot fewer people would live in flood plains
2008-03-07 16:44 < Golbez> or the ones that live there would build their houses more flood-proof
2008-03-07 16:44 < Golbez> it makes sense to me at least
2008-03-07 16:44 < Cyrius> those aren't mutually exclusive
2008-03-07 16:45 < NotASpy> you could probably say the same about vast swathes of the USA, between major fault lines, super volcanoes and not so super volcanoes, tornados, hurricanes, ice storms, flooding and various other natural events. It's a case of balancing risks with benefits, and even something like New Orleans probably has benefits outweighing the risks.
2008-03-07 16:45 < Golbez> NotASpy- the costs:benefits analysis can be handled privately
2008-03-07 16:45 < Cyrius> NotASpy: nope. it's that stupid.
2008-03-07 16:45 < The359> The Mississippi River delta being one, NotASpy
2008-03-07 16:46 < Golbez> if the benefits of keeping New Orleans insured outweigh the costs, then the people there can afford it. If they can't, then obviously the benefits don't outweigh the cost.
2008-03-07 16:46 < Golbez> same deal with San Francisco
2008-03-07 16:46 < Cyrius> new orleans was, is, and will be a catastrophe waiting to happen because of the direct action of human beings
2008-03-07 16:46 < Golbez> I would wager almost every building in that city has some form of insurance against earthquake damage
2008-03-07 16:46 < Messedrocker> NotASpy, new jersey is pretty damn safe from all those natural disasters
2008-03-07 16:46 < Cyrius> Messedrocker: but it's new jersey =D
2008-03-07 16:46 < Golbez> Yet how many homes along the Gulf Coast got full replacement? Not many at all. It didn't help that flood insurance is federal and subsidized.
2008-03-07 16:46 < The359> roffles
2008-03-07 16:46 < Golbez> Messedrocker- Megatsunami!
2008-03-07 16:46 < Messedrocker> true
2008-03-07 16:47 < The359> You recently did some stuff related to pictures uploaded by 224jeff6. First of all he did own all those cars but he couldn't get any pictures of them, so he got pictres of lookalikes. But you got him so mad that he left Wikipedia. And you don't need to keep sending him messages. He's in the hospital with life threatening injuries so it doesn't matter. I know this because I'm his brother. -- KETCHUP KREW SQUIRT! 20:07, 7 March 20
2008-03-07 16:47 < Sfan00> Trostenk: On of the comments on the oringal tips article was that startups shold use warez - Which I find disturibing given the amount of money lost to the US by 'unauthorised' software use
2008-03-07 16:47 < Golbez> And yeah, a major aggravator of the New Orleans issue was the years of screwing with the delta
2008-03-07 16:47 < Cyrius> Golbez: and building half the damn city below sea level
2008-03-07 16:48 < Golbez> Cyrius- that is less an issue, had it occurred in a true insurance system. which it didn't. which is why such a disaster occurred.
2008-03-07 16:48 < The359> Because clearly my deleting his uploads of publicity pictures, which he claimed were cars he owned
2008-03-07 16:48 < The359> is somehow related to him being in the hospital
2008-03-07 16:48 < mavhc> people outside of usa only know one thing about new jersey, everyone hates it
2008-03-07 16:48 < Golbez> Then again, that's what we should expect from New Orleans, a city where nearly two thousand people died because they didn't get the hint to go to higher ground, right?
2008-03-07 16:49 < Golbez> Either there's a severe deficience in intelligence here, or a disastrous dependence on the state. The latter is more likely.
2008-03-07 16:49 < mavhc> most contraversial darwin award ever
2008-03-07 16:49 < Cyrius> Golbez: given the poverty levels, both.
2008-03-07 16:49 < Lubaf> Well, it looks like Iron Man will be composed of nothing more than crowning moments of awesome.
2008-03-07 16:50 < Lubaf> I mean that. Nothing but crowning moments of awesome.
2008-03-07 16:50 < mavhc> no lulls in between these moments?
2008-03-07 16:50 < Lubaf> No plot, no characterization, just crowning moments of awesome.
2008-03-07 16:51 < Lubaf> mavhc: Dunno. Probably not.
2008-03-07 16:51 < Lubaf> I don't know whether it's a good or a bad thing.
2008-03-07 16:51 < mavhc> who wrote/directed it?
2008-03-07 16:52 < Golbez> Jon Favreau directing
2008-03-07 16:52 < Golbez> known for not much; he also did Elf and Zathura
2008-03-07 16:52 < mavhc> and swingers?
2008-03-07 16:53 < Golbez> he directed those two, and wrote Swingers
2008-03-07 16:53 < Golbez> and wrote and directed Made
2008-03-07 16:53 < Lubaf> Anyway.
2008-03-07 16:54 < NotACow> DEATH TO CHOOOOOPAP
2008-03-07 16:54 < Lubaf> NotACow: Chooooopap?
2008-03-07 16:54 < Lubaf> What's Chooooopap?
2008-03-07 16:55 < NotACow> chooooopap!
2008-03-07 16:56 < Messedrocker> bagadabop?
2008-03-07 16:57 < The359> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=224jeff6 Is it just me, or is this account useless?
2008-03-07 16:57 < The359> Makes almost no edits to Wikipedia itself, besides talking with users on their talk page, editing his own user page, and hunting down awards, userboxes, and "secret pages"
2008-03-07 17:01 < AltiusBimm> is it just me or does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD say nothing about what chemicals are used to make the liquid crystal material?
2008-03-07 17:01 < The359> I only count about 5 actual articles out of 500 edits that he's touched
2008-03-07 17:01 < The359> since mid-February
2008-03-07 17:02 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: it's just you
2008-03-07 17:02 < Lubaf> The359: Take it to AN.
2008-03-07 17:02 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: it says it uses http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal#Nematic_phase
2008-03-07 17:03 < mavhc> also appears to be a total douchebag
2008-03-07 17:03 < zvook> cholesterol extracted from carrots!
2008-03-07 17:04 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: Further looking into that article reveals that the substance is MBBA (p-Methoxybenzyliden-p?-n-butylanilin)
2008-03-07 17:05 < scorchsaber> Whoops, my mistake
2008-03-07 17:05 < scorchsaber> that's one substance that was the precurser. :P
2008-03-07 17:05 < scorchsaber> precursor*
2008-03-07 17:05 < scorchsaber> cyanobiphenyls
2008-03-07 17:08 < iojkl> Hello
2008-03-07 17:10 < AltiusBimm> scorchsaber: awesome, thank you for being my brain substitute ^^;
2008-03-07 17:10 < M1rth> Are Alison or MoP around anywhere?
2008-03-07 17:11 < M1rth> I really must file a protest about conduct which is quite beyond all good order
2008-03-07 17:12 < AltiusBimm> scorchsaber: hmm, I can't actually tell which article you got that from though
2008-03-07 17:12 < AltiusBimm> scorchsaber: even with spelling corrections p-Methoxybenzyliden-p?-n-butylanilin doesn't show up coherently in google
2008-03-07 17:13 < AltiusBimm> scorchsaber: just in obscure documents
2008-03-07 17:16 < M1rth> Hmm... is anyone present?
2008-03-07 17:16 < ggreer> unless lcds are made from botulism I don't think there's enough of the chemicals to harm anyone
2008-03-07 17:18 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_crystal#Nematic_phase
2008-03-07 17:18 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: minus the #.*
2008-03-07 17:22 < AltiusBimm> scorchsaber: oh! I understand now. I think I'll put a "This article refers to concepts relating to the display devices, for their chemical composition see [[Liquid crystal]]" if I get to it, or some else can. The LCD article is 27 kB long, too.
2008-03-07 17:23 < noclip> wow
2008-03-07 17:23 < noclip> US Representative Howard Coble is a moron
2008-03-07 17:23 < Demi> the dirty secret is that they really are made of botulism
2008-03-07 17:23 < noclip> also, he's bought and paid for by IP lobbyists
2008-03-07 17:23 < ggreer> Demi: I'll make sure not to eat any bloated LCDs then
2008-03-07 17:23 < noclip> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080307-house-ip-committee-member-endorses-total-p2p-blocking.html
2008-03-07 17:24 < ggreer> noclip: politicians don't understand technology, news at 11
2008-03-07 17:24 < noclip> "Don't download OpenOffice and Ubuntu! It's morally wrong and you'll have your identity stolen!"
2008-03-07 17:24 < M1rth> Do I not have voice?
2008-03-07 17:24 < noclip> ggreer: i'm sure he understands it
2008-03-07 17:24 < noclip> he's just corrupt
2008-03-07 17:25 < ggreer> but you just said he was a moron
2008-03-07 17:25 < ggreer> either he's evil or he's sutpid
2008-03-07 17:25 < scorchsaber> AltiusBimm: No, it already links to that article. :x
2008-03-07 17:25 < ggreer> *stupid
2008-03-07 17:25 < ggreer> it can't be both
2008-03-07 17:25 < noclip> he's a moron for being corrupt
2008-03-07 17:25 < Gracenotes> actually, being corrupt is a great way to accumulate capital
2008-03-07 17:25 < noclip> and actually, it can be both
2008-03-07 17:25 < M1rth> Hmmmmmmm.... TEST!
2008-03-07 17:25 < noclip> look at the current US executive administration
2008-03-07 17:25 < scorchsaber> M1rth: It's not working
2008-03-07 17:25 < scorchsaber> M1rth: Try another test.
2008-03-07 17:26 < M1rth> you could have just responded yes or no to my first statement :(
2008-03-07 17:26 < noclip> they all the wrong intentions, but are also incompetent
2008-03-07 17:26 < noclip> *they have
2008-03-07 17:27 < noclip> reminds me of mark foley, he got his pointer in some page files
2008-03-07 17:29 < noclip> alright, that's terrible
2008-03-07 17:29 * gwern groans
2008-03-07 17:29 < ggreer> noclip: the guy obviously doesn't understand technology
2008-03-07 17:29 < ggreer> most people don't
2008-03-07 17:29 < Gracenotes> we should inform him that the internet is, in fact, not a truck
2008-03-07 17:29 < noclip> ggreer: what do you think his view of p2p is?
2008-03-07 17:29 < ggreer> noclip: he's against it because somebody donated money and told him it was bad
2008-03-07 17:29 < noclip> i'd imagine he just tows the IP mafia's line verbaitim
2008-03-07 17:30 < gwern> noclip: that's bad enough to be a nerdcore song lyrics
2008-03-07 17:30 < noclip> the page file?
2008-03-07 17:30 < noclip> yeah, it was pretty stupid
2008-03-07 17:30 < ggreer> I am for a law that would ban anything with the suffix -core
2008-03-07 17:31 < noclip> i'm for a law that would ban txt msging wthn teh us borders
2008-03-07 17:31 < Rinn> No more dual-core processors?
2008-03-07 17:31 < noclip> Rinn: what?
2008-03-07 17:31 < Demi> the dumb thing about the truck vs. series of tubes thing isn't so much that the analogy is so inept, but that stevens thought that trucks *can carry an infinite amount of goods*
2008-03-07 17:31 < Rinn> <ggreer> I am for a law that would ban anything with the suffix -core
2008-03-07 17:32 < scorchsaber> ggreer: I'm for a law that would ban anything with the suffix -eer
2008-03-07 17:32 < noclip> ah
2008-03-07 17:32 < ggreer> Rinn: it's a sacrifice I'm willing to force on the rest of the world
2008-03-07 17:32 < ggreer> netburst would come back!
2008-03-07 17:32 < noclip> Demi: it's certainly closer to tubes than a truck
2008-03-07 17:32 < noclip> but that doesn't stop the analogy from being retarded
2008-03-07 17:33 < Gracenotes> Demi: well, that makes truck reasonable as a data structure, don't you think?
2008-03-07 17:33 < ggreer> we need more software projects that have class names that are just giant metaphors
2008-03-07 17:33 < cctoide> Stevens apologists kind of forget he also called an email "an internet" and blamed email delivery delays on "clogged tubes"
2008-03-07 17:34 < noclip> you know
2008-03-07 17:34 < noclip> i'd support the BLOB data structure being renamed to BIGTRUCK
2008-03-07 17:34 < noclip> just to honor stevens' stupidity
2008-03-07 17:35 < noclip> you could have a fork of mysql, call it TedsSQL
2008-03-07 17:35 < Demi> oh
2008-03-07 17:35 < Demi> i have to do something like that
2008-03-07 17:36 < Messedrocker> TedSQL
2008-03-07 17:36 < Demi> Gracenotes - i have worked places, where the data structure we were using to organize our data could best be described as a "pile"
2008-03-07 17:36 < noclip> you know what? the next web application i develop that uses a database, i'll have a "bigtruck" table
2008-03-07 17:36 < Demi> i'm going to use bigtruck everywhere
2008-03-07 17:36 < Gracenotes> Demi: "stack" wouldn't work?