freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-07 11:21 < noclip> verizon actually has the balls to say they block port 80 for "security reasons"
2008-03-07 11:21 < zocky> (for home users)
2008-03-07 11:21 < noclip> depends on the market
2008-03-07 11:22 < noclip> they've rolled out 100mbit/50 in one market
2008-03-07 11:22 < noclip> for most 30/5 is the max
2008-03-07 11:22 < zocky> you can buy 1G here, but it's still very expensive
2008-03-07 11:22 < zocky> 20/20 is quite cheap these days here, if you're already connected to the optical network
2008-03-07 11:23 < noclip> i can get twelve OC-192's connected directly to my network, but it's expensive
2008-03-07 11:23 < noclip> i'm talking about what's realistic
2008-03-07 11:23 < zocky> 20/20 is ~50 euros per month here
2008-03-07 11:23 < noclip> sounds about right
2008-03-07 11:24 < zocky> 20/2 is somewhat under 30
2008-03-07 11:24 < noclip> verizon wants $70 for 20/20
2008-03-07 11:24 < zocky> which is quite ok, if you're not running any websites from home
2008-03-07 11:24 < zocky> yeah, that's about the same price
2008-03-07 11:24 < noclip> but if you want port 80, the story changes
2008-03-07 11:24 < noclip> 5/5, $300
2008-03-07 11:25 < zocky> oh,wait, that's the prices on VDSL
2008-03-07 11:25 < noclip> that's fios
2008-03-07 11:25 < zocky> optical is now 60/60 for 45 euros
2008-03-07 11:25 < zocky> I have to get that, ASAP
2008-03-07 11:25 < zocky> they'll be installing optics in my building next month
2008-03-07 11:25 < noclip> bleh
2008-03-07 11:27 < noclip> verizon is not only malicious, but incompetent
2008-03-07 11:27 < zocky> good thing we didn't sell our telecom to germans, like croatians did. germans promised a lot of stuff to croatians, but once they bought the nation telecom, just fired most of the employees and doubled the prices.
2008-03-07 11:27 < zocky> *national
2008-03-07 11:27 < noclip> instead of just thorttling the bittorrent traffic, they kill everything
2008-03-07 11:28 < noclip> 15 megabits becomes barely 1
2008-03-07 11:28 < Demi> the issue in the u.s. is not so much about how you get attached to the network
2008-03-07 11:28 < noclip> the issue in the US is corruption and greed
2008-03-07 11:29 < Demi> we have a municipal residential fiber network but it's the cost associated with upstream circuits that prevents us all from having high-bandwidth connections
2008-03-07 11:42 < noclip> ffs
2008-03-07 11:43 < noclip> Reply from 216.109.112.135: bytes=32 time=198ms TTL=56
2008-03-07 11:43 < noclip> Reply from 216.109.112.135: bytes=32 time=3ms TTL=56
2008-03-07 11:43 < noclip> disgusting
2008-03-07 11:50 < noclip> wow, what scumbags
2008-03-07 11:50 < noclip> they're throttling my BOINC traffic
2008-03-07 11:50 < AzaTht> who's they?
2008-03-07 11:50 < noclip> verizon
2008-03-07 11:50 < AzaTht> haha
2008-03-07 11:50 < AbstractBeliefs> that sucks
2008-03-07 11:51 < noclip> if they LHC blows up the universe, it's their fault
2008-03-07 11:51 < AzaTht> why use verizon?
2008-03-07 11:51 < noclip> because the alternative is comcast?
2008-03-07 11:52 < AzaTht> haha
2008-03-07 11:53 < MrZ-man> comcast is good when it works
2008-03-07 11:54 < MrZ-man> well
2008-03-07 11:54 < MrZ-man> not always
2008-03-07 11:54 < MrZ-man> comcast is good about 50% of the time that it works
2008-03-07 11:54 < noclip> 50% of the time that it works? what is that, 10 seconds per year?
2008-03-07 11:55 < noclip> they give you five-nines UNrelability
2008-03-07 11:57 < Demi> they give you five nines, just not *in a row*
2008-03-07 11:57 < Demi> 9.09999% uptime
2008-03-07 12:00 < NotACow> Demi: haha
2008-03-07 12:00 < NotACow> Demi: 0.99999% uptime
2008-03-07 12:01 < NotACow> MrZ-man: and when they're not randomly resetting your sessions.
2008-03-07 12:01 < NotACow> i need to get a server in colocation
2008-03-07 12:02 < MrZ-man> and good luck complaining to them
2008-03-07 12:02 < NotACow> MrZ-man: they'll just tell you to reset your modem.
2008-03-07 12:02 < NotACow> MrZ-man: and reinstall windows.
2008-03-07 12:02 < Demi> i used to run my own stuff, but it was a hassle, i'm glad i gave that up
2008-03-07 12:02 < MrZ-man> the best method is to get angry and threaten
2008-03-07 12:02 < noclip> NotACow: i'm really considering doing that too
2008-03-07 12:02 < NotACow> Demi: the reason for putting a server in colo is so i can VPN to it and use that to get onto the net
2008-03-07 12:02 < Fabexplosive> hello
2008-03-07 12:02 < MrZ-man> if you're lucky, you get discounts
2008-03-07 12:02 < NotACow> Demi: so that comcast's random traffic fucking won't prevent me from getting to the internet
2008-03-07 12:03 < MrZ-man> works better with complaining about TV though
2008-03-07 12:03 < noclip> NotACow: actually, knowing comcast, they'd probably add a clause into the contract that would allow them block all encypyted VPN traffic
2008-03-07 12:03 < noclip> *encrypted
2008-03-07 12:03 < NotACow> noclip: they probably already have one, but if they start doing that everyone who uses a VPN for work-from-home will screeem
2008-03-07 12:04 < Demi> NotACow - yeah, i don't have that issue
2008-03-07 12:05 < Fabexplosive> moo notacow
2008-03-07 12:05 < Krimpet> my parents switched from Comcast to Verizon FiOS when they moved - they got to switch from complaining about Comcast's horrible service, to complaining about a fiber optic line running across the driveway that Verizon took months to bury :p
2008-03-07 12:06 < noclip> they made a bunch of holes in my walls and never fixed them
2008-03-07 12:06 < Demi> comcast came into my house and busted up the place
2008-03-07 12:07 < noclip> comcast kidnapped and beheaded my neighbors
2008-03-07 12:07 < noclip> just to show the rest of us what would happen if we messed with them
2008-03-07 12:07 < Demi> verizon gave me herpes
2008-03-07 12:08 < noclip> verizon framed me for murder
2008-03-07 12:11 * NotACow is amused at how often garfield minus garfield is wikipedia-relevant
2008-03-07 12:12 < TheWeasel> sup.
2008-03-07 12:16 < JohnReaves> .plemental
2008-03-07 12:19 < SelfQ> how do you make a little coulord cube again? like the ones on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:UN_Human_Development_Report_2007_%282%29.svg in the discription
2008-03-07 12:19 < L33t-Geek> is there an admin fromt he english wikipedia in I can talk to
2008-03-07 12:19 < Pilotguy> !admin Is there an !admin fromt the english wikipedia in he can talk to
2008-03-07 12:19 < placebo_effect> yes?
2008-03-07 12:19 < The359> twice?
2008-03-07 12:19 < L33t-Geek> !admin
2008-03-07 12:20 < placebo_effect> WE are here
2008-03-07 12:20 < Pilotguy> !admin HOLY SHIT!!!!!!!
2008-03-07 12:20 < Golbez> L33t-Geek
2008-03-07 12:20 < NotASpy> yes, L33t-Geek
2008-03-07 12:20 < Golbez> what do you want
2008-03-07 12:20 < placebo_effect> what does thou needeth?
2008-03-07 12:20 < Fabexplosive> wtf?!?
2008-03-07 12:20 < Golbez> this is about your ongoing SSP report, i suspect
2008-03-07 12:20 < SelfQ> guys, anyone?
2008-03-07 12:21 * Pilotguy tickles Fabexplosive
2008-03-07 12:21 < Golbez> in fact, L33t-Geek has been permablocked
2008-03-07 12:21 < Golbez> SelfQ- looking
2008-03-07 12:21 < Golbez> we have a template called legend
2008-03-07 12:21 < Golbez> look http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:UN_Human_Development_Report_2007_%282%29.svg&action=edit for how it was used in that description
2008-03-07 12:22 < L33t-Geek> I am having an issue, I started earlier this week on wikipedia, being new and nt knowing policy I tried to jump right in fixing an article but doing so in ways aginst policy, originally under my IP then my account, I was blocked as a sockpuppet once I registered and was unblocked, the unblocking admin has reblocked me indefinatley because they seem to think I'm a sockpuppe with some vandals but I haven't seen any real evicence
2008-03-07 12:22 < The359> it might help to look at the Commons version, SelfQ
2008-03-07 12:22 < Golbez> and look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Legend for information on how to use it
2008-03-07 12:22 < Golbez> :)
2008-03-07 12:22 < Demi> Golbez - That's for "I Am Legend"-related articles
2008-03-07 12:22 < Fabexplosive> hey Pilotguy
2008-03-07 12:22 < Golbez> Demi- ha
2008-03-07 12:22 < SelfQ> thanks a million guys
2008-03-07 12:22 < The359> Since when do vandals see evidence?
2008-03-07 12:23 * TheWeasel can't follow this conversation at all, so here is a bunny with a pancake on.
2008-03-07 12:23 < L33t-Geek> I never vandalized the page, the vandals and me are NOT connected
2008-03-07 12:23 < The359> where?!
2008-03-07 12:23 < Golbez> The359
2008-03-07 12:23 < L33t-Geek> [[Kent Hovind]]
2008-03-07 12:23 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:SSP#User:71.217.206.152
2008-03-07 12:23 * The359 was responding to TheWeasel
2008-03-07 12:23 < Golbez> oh
2008-03-07 12:24 < Golbez> that is the SSP report opened on L33t-Geek, which led to his blocking
2008-03-07 12:24 < Demi> you have to put the new cover sheets on those SSP reports
2008-03-07 12:24 < TheWeasel> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a0/Oolong_last_head_performance.jpg/180px-Oolong_last_head_performance.jpg
2008-03-07 12:24 < The359> he needs a spell checker
2008-03-07 12:24 * NotACow has no idea what an SSP is, nor does she care.
2008-03-07 12:24 < Golbez> suspected sock puppet
2008-03-07 12:24 < NotACow> Golbez: why does anybody care?
2008-03-07 12:24 < The359> I'm pretty sure that's a waffle, TheWeasel
2008-03-07 12:24 < NotACow> Golbez: are his edits disruptive? if so, ban. if not, IGNORE>
2008-03-07 12:24 < Pilotguy> suspected sock suppoet
2008-03-07 12:25 < Pilotguy> NotACow- Any constructive edits are disruptive
2008-03-07 12:25 < TheWeasel> I'm not down with the complex model of bakery I guess :-D
2008-03-07 12:25 < NotACow> wikipedians spend way too much energy chasing gromwarks and boojums.
2008-03-07 12:25 < The359> "Welcome to my user page. I am new to wikipedia, I cam here from a google search for some research and have become engorssed in trying to fix an obviously slanted article and as the saying goes, you mess with fire, you get burned."
2008-03-07 12:25 < Golbez> NotACow- SSP is normally used, I suspect, when people aren't being disruptive on a single account, but are using socks to violate 3RR and overvoting
2008-03-07 12:25 < The359> People who try to fix "obviously slanted" articles are usually vandals
2008-03-07 12:25 < NotACow> Golbez: meh. two stupid policies anyway.
2008-03-07 12:25 < L33t-Geek> which I was not
2008-03-07 12:25 < NotASpy> The359: that sounds sockpuppetish, I have to say.
2008-03-07 12:25 < TheWeasel> http://macidiot.dyndns.org/~iken/oolong.jpg
2008-03-07 12:25 < The359> yes it does
2008-03-07 12:25 < TheWeasel> That's the pancake one
2008-03-07 12:25 < Golbez> in this case, it is claimed that socks were used to violate 11RR.
2008-03-07 12:25 < The359> sounds like an agenda
2008-03-07 12:26 < L33t-Geek> there were some vandals on that article I was working on and they somoe decided I must also be the vandal
2008-03-07 12:26 < L33t-Geek> makes no sense to me
2008-03-07 12:26 < NotASpy> yeap, a sockpuppet or a single purpose account.
2008-03-07 12:26 < Pilotguy> http://l33tgeek.justgotowned.com
2008-03-07 12:27 < The359> well
2008-03-07 12:27 < The359> when your very first edit to Wikipedia is to add a {{npov}} template
2008-03-07 12:27 < Golbez> kelly, curious, why do you say 3RR is a stupid policy?
2008-03-07 12:27 < The359> It certain makes it appear that you are not "new" here
2008-03-07 12:27 < Golbez> no, that was his second edit
2008-03-07 12:27 < Golbez> his first edit was to use the imagevio template.
2008-03-07 12:27 < The359> his first article edit
2008-03-07 12:27 < NotACow> Golbez: it encourages rulelawyering as well as attempts to conceal identity.
2008-03-07 12:27 < Golbez> or rather, to revert back to an IP who had added imagevio
2008-03-07 12:28 < Demi> i hesitate to know what people would think of me now based on my first edits
2008-03-07 12:28 < Golbez> l33t-geek then denied being said IP
2008-03-07 12:28 < Golbez> i'm inclined to agree with WP:DUCK here - a new user just doesn't come upon a random image page seven minutes after a user reverted an IP's edit, reverting back to the IP's edit, without actually BEING said IP.
2008-03-07 12:28 * TheWeasel was a complete dick, mostly for not knowing anything about internet crusaders
2008-03-07 12:29 < NotACow> Golbez: 3RR has established a culture of entitlement: you are entitled to make a given nymber of unexplained reverts per day.
2008-03-07 12:29 * TheWeasel ate the bait first thing
2008-03-07 12:29 < L33t-Geek> my IP is 71.217.206.152 the are saying I am also 168.156.174.49, and 168.156.174.63 which belong to a diffrent ISP
2008-03-07 12:29 < Golbez> NotACow- I try to point out that's incorrect to people. :(
2008-03-07 12:29 < Aqwis> 3RR itself says that is not true
2008-03-07 12:29 < The359> also odd that he already knows [[WP:BITE]] and [[WP:AGF]] in his defence of the sockpuppet case
2008-03-07 12:29 < The359> defense
2008-03-07 12:29 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- okay, then i misunderstood your comment on spp
2008-03-07 12:29 < Golbez> er ssp
2008-03-07 12:29 < NotACow> Golbez: it has also clearly established that the way to win an edit war is to recruit more people to your side than the other guy has
2008-03-07 12:29 < NotASpy> hmm, it seems I've looked at the Kent Hovind article already this past week, damned if I can remember why though.
2008-03-07 12:29 < NotACow> Aqwis: yes, but people ignore that.
2008-03-07 12:29 < Golbez> NotASpy- probably because I was talking about it
2008-03-07 12:29 < Golbez> because of L33t-Geek
2008-03-07 12:30 < The359> What exactly is it you want here, L33t-Geek? To try and find another admin to unblock you?
2008-03-07 12:30 < NotACow> Aqwis: when i was an arbitrator, we took guff for imposing revert paroles on people who had not violated 3RR.
2008-03-07 12:30 < Golbez> and then I linked to the hilarious chick tract
2008-03-07 12:30 < Aqwis> mm
2008-03-07 12:30 < Demi> is there such a thing as a non-hilarious chick tract? i think not.
2008-03-07 12:30 < Aqwis> those people are the ones who should be blocked
2008-03-07 12:30 < NotASpy> ah, that'll be why.
2008-03-07 12:30 < NotACow> i'm with demi on this one.
2008-03-07 12:30 < NotACow> every wikipedia article should have a chick tract on it :)
2008-03-07 12:31 < TheWeasel> moon god lovers!!
2008-03-07 12:31 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- you are at the very least guilty then of editwarring and violating 3RR, which you were initially blocked for, and rightly so
2008-03-07 12:31 < NotACow> http://eswiki.wordpress.com/2008/03/06/de-dioses-reyes/ <- interesting
2008-03-07 12:31 < Golbez> as for your present block i have no opinion as of yet
2008-03-07 12:31 < Golbez> NotACow- no habla
2008-03-07 12:31 < NotACow> Golbez: me neither, but i used google translate on it :)
2008-03-07 12:31 < L33t-Geek> well yeas, or at least make it nt indefinate because that seems oerkill especially snce checkuser was never used to connect me to the vandals, just that someone mentioned they were from the same city [[Spokane, WA]] which is interesting because what they used is not erry accurate then
2008-03-07 12:31 < Golbez> the only spanish i know these days is SI SE PUEDE
2008-03-07 12:32 < Golbez> and "callete, guero" which my girlfriend tells me a lot.
2008-03-07 12:32 < NotACow> L33t-Geek: ok, you know way too much about wikipedia process to be a casual editor.
2008-03-07 12:32 < Golbez> (which means 'shut up, whitey')
2008-03-07 12:33 < L33t-Geek> Well i've had to look it up to try to defend myself against the sock pupper accusation to see if I could find anything
2008-03-07 12:33 < Golbez> lemme look at the history of the article here
2008-03-07 12:33 < Golbez> generally stable and no editwarring until March 3
2008-03-07 12:33 < NotACow> L33t-Geek: go find something else to do. wikipedia is a clusterfuck anyway.
2008-03-07 12:33 < Golbez> when your admitted IP made 7 edits, all individually reverted
2008-03-07 12:33 < Demi> NotACow - i pretty much read all the policy pages and stuff before i ever started editing, i started right in on arguing on talk pages, citing naming conventions and participating in AFD
2008-03-07 12:34 < The359> you seem to be a bit knowledge of the workings of Wikipedia for someone who just "found it through Google"
2008-03-07 12:34 < Golbez> then on March 4, an IP you say was not yours appeared
2008-03-07 12:34 < Golbez> and that IP did a fascinating thing
2008-03-07 12:35 < Golbez> it put your temporary page onto the article.
2008-03-07 12:35 < NotACow> Demi: yeah, but that's rare.
2008-03-07 12:35 < L33t-Geek> which was linked to from the articles talk page and I even mentioned the temp article was not finished
2008-03-07 12:36 < Golbez> indeed it was, but the new IP was just that, new. It's just very odd that someone randomly wandering through the tubes would come across that and do the exact same actions you were doing.
2008-03-07 12:36 < Golbez> that's the essence of WP:DUCK.
2008-03-07 12:36 < TheWeasel> I spose back then Wikipedia was a good deal simpler though.
2008-03-07 12:36 < TheWeasel> hah
2008-03-07 12:36 < L33t-Geek> Hey l33t, great work on the NPOV article, it was taken down but i'm putting it back up for you.--KHManiac (talk) 20:35, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
2008-03-07 12:36 < L33t-Geek> The blocked my other IP and accounts, but I got plenty of IPs to edit from, gotta love the uni network,--168.156.174.90 (talk) 20:47, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
2008-03-07 12:37 < The359> One sock messaging another sock is hardly proof
2008-03-07 12:37 < L33t-Geek> if thats me I have bigger problems, like talking to myself...
2008-03-07 12:37 < NotACow> The359: my socks never message one another
2008-03-07 12:37 < NotACow> The359: i took away their cellphones.
2008-03-07 12:37 < Golbez> KHManiac, whose first edits were yesterday? Again, how odd that someone randomly wandering through the tubes finally appears at this very moment.
2008-03-07 12:37 < Demi> NotACow - i do think i would run into trouble if i started today.
2008-03-07 12:37 < L33t-Geek> who appears to be attacked to other spmming users as early as tuesday
2008-03-07 12:37 < The359> L33t-Geek, if you were unblocked
2008-03-07 12:38 < The359> What would you do?
2008-03-07 12:38 < NotACow> Demi: i know i would.
2008-03-07 12:38 < Golbez> Personally, I have no opinion, but on the other hand I see no overwhelming evidence of innocence, either. My only input would be that an indef might be out of line for your account - but not for the suspected socks.
2008-03-07 12:38 < NotACow> Demi: hell, one of my socks a while back was threatened with a block after five edits.
2008-03-07 12:38 < TheWeasel> heh, innocence has to be established?
2008-03-07 12:38 < NotACow> Demi: for removing a welcome message from its talk page (instead of archiving it)
2008-03-07 12:38 < L33t-Geek> I would finish my NPOV version of the article, and put a request for an admin to merge it in to the main article and find another NPOV article and fix it as well
2008-03-07 12:38 < Golbez> TheWeasel- I knew I'd catch hell for that one
2008-03-07 12:38 < Golbez> It has to be established strongly for me to counteract another admin, yes. =p
2008-03-07 12:39 < TheWeasel> Well yea
2008-03-07 12:39 < L33t-Geek> maybe wikipedias servers are in canada
2008-03-07 12:39 < Golbez> why do you ask?
2008-03-07 12:39 < Golbez> (ps they are in Florida)
2008-03-07 12:39 < Golbez> but why do you ask if they're in Canada
2008-03-07 12:39 < TheWeasel> for internal checks, checking for obviously faulty decisions is okay
2008-03-07 12:40 < TheWeasel> but you're checking someone else's decision, not deciding on the same thing there
2008-03-07 12:40 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-07 12:40 < Demi> NotACow - ha!
2008-03-07 12:40 < L33t-Geek> you look at my ccount, the most trouble I got into was in the beginning violated the rules i didn't know, i read them, I know them, and I was trying to fix the article within them
2008-03-07 12:40 < Pilotguy> L33t-Geek- Yeah yeah, so you've been treated like shit. What can you do about it?
2008-03-07 12:40 < Golbez> L33t-Geek, what did your comment about Canada mean?
2008-03-07 12:40 < L33t-Geek> cuz canada is guilty until proven innocent
2008-03-07 12:40 < The359> you seem to know them a bit well
2008-03-07 12:40 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- the servers are in America but we aren't the government
2008-03-07 12:40 < NotASpy> L33t-Geek: you don't know much about anything, do you ?
2008-03-07 12:41 < NotASpy> or are you taking cheap shots at the Canadians ?
2008-03-07 12:41 < The359> Canada is guilty until proven innocent?
2008-03-07 12:41 < The359> wtf
2008-03-07 12:42 < L33t-Geek> thats the way it works up north in court or so i've heard
2008-03-07 12:42 < The359> And you heard this from who?
2008-03-07 12:42 < The359> A classmate?
2008-03-07 12:42 < Demi> like golbez says there's no necessary resemblance between wikipedia and governmental or judicial procedures
2008-03-07 12:43 < L33t-Geek> it was a joke because someone said why do I have to prove im innocent...
2008-03-07 12:43 < L33t-Geek> never mind
2008-03-07 12:43 < sag3tator> sauce?
2008-03-07 12:43 < Golbez> what an odd joke.
2008-03-07 12:43 < The359> an odd joke that you heard from someone?
2008-03-07 12:43 < TheWeasel> gratuitous other-countries-bashing is done on the fly online
2008-03-07 12:43 < Golbez> This is fun, the bots are coming in and being punted almost as fast.
2008-03-07 12:43 < The359> it's usually done better
2008-03-07 12:44 < TheWeasel> it means nothing I guess
2008-03-07 12:44 < The359> I was noticing the names, Golbez
2008-03-07 12:44 < Golbez> L33t-Geek, you've put up your unblock template, and it doesn't appear anyone here will do it, so the best option is to wait for that.
2008-03-07 12:44 < The359> look, there's another one, Rinn
2008-03-07 12:44 * Rinn throws a book at The359
2008-03-07 12:44 < Golbez> It's like we have a sniper hiding in an empty tower somewhere half a mile away
2008-03-07 12:45 < Golbez> The bots wander into the channel
2008-03-07 12:45 < Golbez> think they can get the drop on us
2008-03-07 12:45 < Golbez> then BAM, someone from freenode aerates their skull from 1000 meters
2008-03-07 12:45 < The359> or they're flooding another room
2008-03-07 12:46 < L33t-Geek> honestly I almost want to say if you really want to block me than fine, just don't make it indefinate and i'll just come back when its expired
2008-03-07 12:47 < The359> if you come back, I suggest you not go straight back to editing the same article
2008-03-07 12:47 < Golbez> huh
2008-03-07 12:47 < Golbez> L33t-Geek, did you know both IPs were in the same city?
2008-03-07 12:47 < Golbez> you claim they aren't, I just wanted to make sure you saw the argument that they were
2008-03-07 12:49 < L33t-Geek> well i 'm not in Spokane, WA and they are, but that could just because thats how my ISP operates, actualy is not too far away so that could be Qwest closest office to me, but they are diffrent ISP's do you really think I have two ISPs?
2008-03-07 12:50 < Golbez> Since one is an educational establishment, yes, it is indeed possible to have both. When I was in school, I still had my private ISP account.
2008-03-07 12:50 < The359> one at home
2008-03-07 12:50 < The359> one at school
2008-03-07 12:50 < The359> one at work
2008-03-07 12:50 < The359> etc
2008-03-07 12:51 < L33t-Geek> I don't go to school anymore, I graduated in 2006
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> Now, personally, KHRulez and KentIsAwesome get blocked purely on principle. =p
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> and L33t-Geek
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> you have already admitted that 71 is your IP
2008-03-07 12:51 < L33t-Geek> yes
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> and 71 is clearly a Spokane IP
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> or rather, a pacific northwest IP
2008-03-07 12:51 < Golbez> Where are you, anyway?
2008-03-07 12:51 < L33t-Geek> Nine Mile Falls, WA
2008-03-07 12:52 < Pilotguy> DNS Lookup result for query "71-217-206-152.spkn.qwest.net"
2008-03-07 12:52 < Pilotguy> Hostname 1: 71-217-206-152.spkn.qwest.net
2008-03-07 12:52 < Pilotguy> IP address 1: 71.217.206.152
2008-03-07 12:52 < Golbez> uh.
2008-03-07 12:52 < Golbez> Did
2008-03-07 12:52 < Golbez> did you just say you weren't in Spokane?
2008-03-07 12:52 < Golbez> Nine Mile Falls... is in Spokane County.
2008-03-07 12:52 < Golbez> You realize they wouldn't have a specific server for your little hamlet, right? That almost all servers in that region would say 'Spokane'?
2008-03-07 12:52 < L33t-Geek> Well the post office is my address is technically over in Stevens County
2008-03-07 12:53 < Golbez> That doesn't quite matter. The point is is that we've just proven that you *are* in the range of a Spokane ISP
2008-03-07 12:53 < L33t-Geek> thats probably right about why it says spokane
2008-03-07 12:53 < Golbez> Jayron32!
2008-03-07 12:53 < Golbez> we were just discussing you
2008-03-07 12:53 < Ceiling_Cat> hello all!
2008-03-07 12:53 < Jayron32> Indeed. Apparently, I should be instantly desysopped.... So what's up
2008-03-07 12:53 < Golbez> lol
2008-03-07 12:53 < Golbez> Well we just established that L33t-Geek is indeed in the Spokane area!
2008-03-07 12:54 < Jayron32> No sher shitlock
2008-03-07 12:54 < Golbez> Though I don't know where 168.156.174.49 is.
2008-03-07 12:54 < Golbez> It belongs to a Washington community college network but no way to tell which campus.
2008-03-07 12:54 < Golbez> But.
2008-03-07 12:54 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Frederick Seitz]] has died. And not a day too soon either.
2008-03-07 12:55 < Jayron32> I don't have CU. But Thatcher and several others say it quacking. As I said at en-admin, even with the sockpuppetry aside, the user has hardly been a midel citizen
2008-03-07 12:55 < Jayron32> model that is
2008-03-07 12:55 < Golbez> Oh, I agree, there's peking duck a'cookin' here.
2008-03-07 12:55 * Ceiling_Cat kicks his corpse around a bit
2008-03-07 12:55 < L33t-Geek> I haven't exactly been disrupptive like that 168 address
2008-03-07 12:56 < Golbez> Ceiling_Cat- what did he do so bad?
2008-03-07 12:56 < Golbez> +that was
2008-03-07 12:56 < Ceiling_Cat> golbez - he was a shill for the tobacco and oil industries
2008-03-07 12:56 < Ceiling_Cat> claiming that second hand smoke causing cancer and global warming are myths
2008-03-07 12:56 < Golbez> I'm guessing you're happy he's dead because he disagreed with anthropogenic global warming. Should I set it up so you're notified of my passing, if and when it happens? =p
2008-03-07 12:57 < Ceiling_Cat> it's otherwise reputable scientists like him that give camoflauge to the intellectual bankruptcy of the denial industry
2008-03-07 12:57 < The359> ARE YOU SMOKING YET?
2008-03-07 12:57 < Golbez> SMOKE.
2008-03-07 12:57 < Ceiling_Cat> and the sad fact is, the world today is a little better now that he's left it
2008-03-07 12:57 * TheWeasel smokes a fifteen-foot cigar
2008-03-07 12:57 < Golbez> I used to be against the whole "second hand smoke is bad" thing
2008-03-07 12:58 * NotACow is not fond of smoke.
2008-03-07 12:58 < Golbez> Now I simply don't care either way.
2008-03-07 12:58 < NotACow> fortunately, it's illegal here now, for all intents and purposes.
2008-03-07 12:58 < The359> any smoke in your lungs = bad
2008-03-07 12:58 < Golbez> "Seitz questioned the view that CFCs are damaging to the ozone layer." huh.
2008-03-07 12:58 < NotACow> although i do not yet have the legal right to shoot people for smoking on my propertyy.
2008-03-07 12:58 * TheWeasel finds the smoking ban in pubs pretty silly
2008-03-07 12:58 < Golbez> But yeah, anthropogenic global warming is a health thing to challenge, rather than being a lemming.
2008-03-07 12:58 < Golbez> health->healthy
2008-03-07 12:58 < TheWeasel> everywhere else in public, it's fine
2008-03-07 12:58 < Nick397> hi
2008-03-07 12:59 < Golbez> NotACow- or golf courses?
2008-03-07 12:59 < toad065> hello
2008-03-07 12:59 < noclip> hmm
2008-03-07 12:59 < Golbez> in New Mexico, they banned smoking in pubs but not golf courses. =p
2008-03-07 12:59 < Jayron32> Look, if someone wants to unblock l33t geek cuz they honestly believe he poses no threat, I won't wheelwar over thatone. I'm a little disapointed someone came running to IRC instead of going thorugh the normal channels, but seriously, unblock him if you like... Or don't... I have more important things to care about...
2008-03-07 12:59 < NotACow> Golbez: that there is a climatic shift in progress is rlatively obvious. frankly i don't care who started it.
2008-03-07 12:59 < noclip> how do you folks feel about this edit:
2008-03-07 12:59 < noclip> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Internet_Explorer_8&diff=196368914&oldid=196367194
2008-03-07 12:59 < NotACow> Golbez: we, as a people, need to deal with it.
2008-03-07 12:59 < Golbez> we can deal with it, but can we fix it
2008-03-07 12:59 < Golbez> that's the fundamental question
2008-03-07 12:59 < NotACow> Golbez: blame doesn't matter when your town is 10 feet underwater.
2008-03-07 12:59 < TheWeasel> Kent Hovind knows that God started it, it's not anthropogenic.
2008-03-07 12:59 < toad065> noclip: you fail
2008-03-07 12:59 < Golbez> lol
2008-03-07 12:59 < noclip> i fail?
2008-03-07 13:00 < toad065> majorly
2008-03-07 13:00 < noclip> ie fails, not me
2008-03-07 13:00 < NotACow> you failed majorly?
2008-03-07 13:00 < NotACow> wouldn't that be a good thing? majorly is a bit of an ass.
2008-03-07 13:00 < The359> they both fail
2008-03-07 13:00 < toad065> go rub my boy clit
2008-03-07 13:00 < Golbez> noclip- i have no problem with it
2008-03-07 13:00 < The359> hmmm
2008-03-07 13:00 < The359> yeah
2008-03-07 13:00 * The359 saw that coming
2008-03-07 13:00 < toad065> sorry
2008-03-07 13:00 < NotACow> EEK AN OP
2008-03-07 13:00 < toad065> please don't ban me Golbez
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> don't worry i won't
2008-03-07 13:01 < noclip> run
2008-03-07 13:01 < NotACow> MOAR DRAMAH PLEEZE!
2008-03-07 13:01 < Ceiling_Cat> MOAR CATZ TOO!
2008-03-07 13:01 < The359> DON'T TASE ME BRO
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> well
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> i guess since it was +b
2008-03-07 13:01 < NotACow> I CAN HAS CHEEZBURGR?
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> it's technically a ban
2008-03-07 13:01 < noclip> tase him, bro
2008-03-07 13:01 < TheWeasel> meh, people like that always remind me of Gollum
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> but really, it's a quiet
2008-03-07 13:01 * LOUD_CAT WAS ATTRACTED BY ALL THE SHOUTING
2008-03-07 13:01 < Golbez> HELLO LOUD_CAT
2008-03-07 13:01 < Pilotguy> :D
2008-03-07 13:01 < The359> NOT LOUD ENOUGH
2008-03-07 13:01 < noclip> STOP SHOUTING
2008-03-07 13:01 < TheWeasel> dripping with subservience from one second to another
2008-03-07 13:02 < NotACow> Hi, I'm from the Internet. I'm here to put labels on your cats.
2008-03-07 13:02 * LOUD_CAT *SPEAKS* *UP* *SO* *THAT* *THE359* *CAN* HEAR*!!!!
2008-03-07 13:02 < noclip> you know
2008-03-07 13:02 < The359> MOARRRRRR!
2008-03-07 13:02 < Golbez> hey guys
2008-03-07 13:02 < Golbez> how long does ... lol
2008-03-07 13:02 < noclip> someone asked me where i was from a few months ago
2008-03-07 13:02 < noclip> and i actually said
2008-03-07 13:02 < Golbez> how long does dircbot leave quiets in place?
2008-03-07 13:02 < noclip> "i'm from the internet"
2008-03-07 13:02 < NotACow> MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
2008-03-07 13:02 < Cyrius> Golbez: 24 hours by default
2008-03-07 13:02 < NotACow> Golbez: 24 hours by default, i think
2008-03-07 13:02 < Golbez> Thanks
2008-03-07 13:02 < The359> doesn't exactly matter now, does it Golbez?
2008-03-07 13:02 < Golbez> The359- he was asking. =p
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> also, any challenge against me cleaning out these people being repeatedly killed?
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> like Nick397?
2008-03-07 13:03 < The359> still doesn't matter now ;)
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> or Dave2 can handle it <3
2008-03-07 13:03 < NotACow> DEATH TO RANDOM STUPID IRC WHINERS
2008-03-07 13:03 < The359> See
2008-03-07 13:03 < The359> you're useless!
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> :(
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> no!
2008-03-07 13:03 < Golbez> i'll get the next one
2008-03-07 13:03 < TheWeasel> What about dedicated stupid IRC whiners?
2008-03-07 13:03 < The359> Get LOUD_CAT
2008-03-07 13:03 * NotACow tacks the Dunsel Hat on Golbez
2008-03-07 13:03 < The359> he's one
2008-03-07 13:04 < Golbez> LOUD_CAT IS LOUD
2008-03-07 13:04 < LOUD_CAT> :)
2008-03-07 13:04 < noclip> THAT WASN'T A VERY LOUD SMILEY
2008-03-07 13:04 < NotACow> MOO
2008-03-07 13:04 < Golbez> >:D
2008-03-07 13:04 < Ceiling_Cat> My advisor just sent me an email - One more suggestion - please somehow expand/revise your description of the parallelis, and explain where are the dependencies --- I can't really figure out what he means by 'parallelis'
2008-03-07 13:04 < The359> I'M SORRY, I CAN'T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM
2008-03-07 13:04 < Ceiling_Cat> it's clearly a typo
2008-03-07 13:05 < Ceiling_Cat> but I don't know what he meant to write
2008-03-07 13:05 < TheWeasel> Ceiling_Cat: Do you think you described it?
2008-03-07 13:05 < NotACow> parallelism?
2008-03-07 13:05 < Ceiling_Cat> Yes!
2008-03-07 13:05 < Golbez> ok
2008-03-07 13:05 < TheWeasel> Yea, my guess as well
2008-03-07 13:05 < Golbez> i leave the decision to you, my comrades:
2008-03-07 13:05 < Ceiling_Cat> I read it as parallel is
2008-03-07 13:05 < Golbez> which list of governors should i bring up to featured quality next?
2008-03-07 13:05 < Ceiling_Cat> but I guess parallelism is a better fit
2008-03-07 13:05 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: plus , is right next to m on the keyboard
2008-03-07 13:05 < Golbez> note: must be a us state
2008-03-07 13:06 < The359> Does Puerto Rico have a governor?
2008-03-07 13:06 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - thank you, that's very helpful
2008-03-07 13:06 < TheWeasel> Idaho, the big fraud.
2008-03-07 13:06 < Golbez> The359- yes!
2008-03-07 13:06 < Golbez> ooh, Idaho
2008-03-07 13:06 < The359> Puerto Rico then
2008-03-07 13:06 < NotACow> idaho doesn't exixst.
2008-03-07 13:06 < Golbez> so be it!
2008-03-07 13:06 < Golbez> I SAID STATE
2008-03-07 13:06 < Demi> those potatoes aren't so famous
2008-03-07 13:06 < Jayron32> What did Delaware? Idaho, Alaska...
2008-03-07 13:06 < The359> They have governors
2008-03-07 13:06 < NotACow> Golbez: New South Wales
2008-03-07 13:06 < The359> They count
2008-03-07 13:06 < Golbez> NotACow- I SAID US STATE
2008-03-07 13:07 < Jayron32> apparently, she wore here brand New Jersey
2008-03-07 13:07 < NotACow> Golbez: bah, extra silly rules.
2008-03-07 13:07 < TheWeasel> http://kuoi.com/idaho_does_not_exist.html
2008-03-07 13:07 < TheWeasel> Teach the controversy.
2008-03-07 13:07 < NotACow> Golbez: Franklin.
2008-03-07 13:07 < Demi> haha
2008-03-07 13:07 < Jayron32> Good one cow
2008-03-07 13:07 < Golbez> I SAID ...
2008-03-07 13:07 < TheWeasel> Old Hampshire.
2008-03-07 13:07 < Golbez> ooh.
2008-03-07 13:07 < Golbez> you're good.
2008-03-07 13:07 < TheWeasel> West Dakota.
2008-03-07 13:07 < NotACow> there is a US State of Franklin.
2008-03-07 13:07 < NotACow> sorta.
2008-03-07 13:07 < Golbez> Though that's probably inclided in List of Governors of North Carolina
2008-03-07 13:07 < Jayron32> Well, there was
2008-03-07 13:07 < Jayron32> For about a week in 1778
2008-03-07 13:07 < Golbez> just as State of Jefferson is included in List of Governors of Colorado (FEATURED BY ME)
2008-03-07 13:08 < NotACow> Golbez: all of Franklin is in Tennessee now
2008-03-07 13:08 < Golbez> Oh right
2008-03-07 13:08 < Golbez> it would be Tennessee, not NC
2008-03-07 13:08 < Demi> bah, the state of jefferson is here
2008-03-07 13:08 < TheWeasel> THE STATE OF FRANKLIN IS THE REASON NOBODY NEEDS TO PAY INCOME TAX.
2008-03-07 13:08 < Demi> do you read strange maps, golbez?
2008-03-07 13:08 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080229.html
2008-03-07 13:08 < TheWeasel> (somehow)
2008-03-07 13:08 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20080301.html
2008-03-07 13:08 * Ceiling_Cat lulz
2008-03-07 13:08 < Golbez> Demi- hm?
2008-03-07 13:09 < Golbez> oh, the strange maps blog
2008-03-07 13:09 < Golbez> i read it oncei n a while when i happen upon it accidentally, I need to rebookmark it
2008-03-07 13:09 < Demi> i was wondering if you saw jefferson's proposed states division of the louisiana purchase
2008-03-07 13:09 < Golbez> Yeah
2008-03-07 13:09 < Golbez> The square ones with the weird names
2008-03-07 13:10 < NotACow> Golbez: it should definitely be in Tennessee's list as the first governor of Tennessee was also the governer of Franklin
2008-03-07 13:10 < Golbez> Yeah
2008-03-07 13:10 < Golbez> You're right, I was being dumb
2008-03-07 13:11 < Ceiling_Cat> well, it's official
2008-03-07 13:11 < Ceiling_Cat> Lir just got himself indef banned
2008-03-07 13:12 < Ceiling_Cat> and as I predicted, right before the end, he revealed that he was suffering from futureshock
2008-03-07 13:12 < Ceiling_Cat> Wikipedia had changed too much in the 2 years he was arbcom banned
2008-03-07 13:12 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ALir&diff=196566155&oldid=196529137
2008-03-07 13:12 < Golbez> Ceiling_Cat- Damn it, and me without a camera.
2008-03-07 13:12 < Ceiling_Cat> He was still operating under the quaint notion from 2004 that all bans require arbcom intervention
2008-03-07 13:12 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: lir is a silly puppy, always has been
2008-03-07 13:12 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: he really should take his meds more often.
2008-03-07 13:13 < Golbez> "WELL OK I'LL JUST CREATE A NEW ACCOUNT DUMBASSES, YOU CAN'T STOP ME LOL! You are the ones who wanted me to use this account where you could see me, now you can't; your loss!"
2008-03-07 13:13 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: dammit, one of the big things i pushed for when i was in the arbcom was the notion that bans can be imposed by the community.
2008-03-07 13:13 < Golbez> guys hes super serial
2008-03-07 13:14 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - silly is not a word I would use to describe him. His participation on wikipedia is destructive. Having him around wears down the useful contributors who, by nature of the articels they edit, have to deal with him
2008-03-07 13:14 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lir&diff=next&oldid=196576694 and thus the saga of Lirath Q. Pynnor comes to its fateful close. Long may he live, long may he troll, long may his story be told.
2008-03-07 13:14 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: the same is true of about 15% of wikipedia's contributors.
2008-03-07 13:14 < Demi> why is blogger messing with my indentation and therefore my head?
2008-03-07 13:14 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: maybe even more than that.
2008-03-07 13:14 < Ceiling_Cat> golbez - I'm just happy that I got to put the final nail in
2008-03-07 13:14 * Golbez ^5's Ceiling_Cat
2008-03-07 13:15 * Ceiling_Cat reciprocates
2008-03-07 13:15 < Golbez> also ceil420
2008-03-07 13:15 < Golbez> er Ceiling_Cat
2008-03-07 13:15 < AdamBishop> wow, Lir was still around?
2008-03-07 13:15 < Golbez> i'm sorry for being mean to you earlier when we were fighting over the corpse of Barbara Olson
2008-03-07 13:15 < Golbez> AdamBishop- he came back recently
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> His last edit sums up the final death cry of all true trolls.
2008-03-07 13:16 < LOUD_CAT> AdamBishop - he came back a few weeks ago, one year arbcom banned (which he repeatedly caused to be extended) ended
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=Lir
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> The summary says it all.
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> One not even need click the diff.
2008-03-07 13:16 < AdamBishop> wow, I think if I was banned for a year, I would find something better to do
2008-03-07 13:16 < Ceiling_Cat> # 14:09, 5 March 2008 (hist) (diff) User:Lir? (plz stop vandalizing my user page)
2008-03-07 13:16 < Ceiling_Cat> # 02:23, 27 January 2008 (hist) (diff) User:Lir
2008-03-07 13:16 < Ceiling_Cat> Longest one year ban ever
2008-03-07 13:16 < Ceiling_Cat> erm
2008-03-07 13:16 < LOUD_CAT> 08:17, 1 January 2005 (hist) (diff) User:Lir
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> AdamBishop- I know, right? Even weirder are the ones that show up THE DAY THEIR BLOCK EXPIRES
2008-03-07 13:16 < Golbez> see: Plautus Satire
2008-03-07 13:17 < LOUD_CAT> Golbez - oh no, son, it's worse than that
2008-03-07 13:17 < LOUD_CAT> he emailed me two weeks before the block expired letting me know he couldn't wait
2008-03-07 13:17 < Golbez> He was banned August 2 2005. He came back.. oh
2008-03-07 13:17 < Golbez> September 6 2006?
2008-03-07 13:17 < Golbez> That's a full month!
2008-03-07 13:17 < Golbez> Of course, his first edit was to our friend Raul's page
2008-03-07 13:17 < Jayron32> or 13 full months... for those that know math
2008-03-07 13:18 < The359> lol
2008-03-07 13:18 < LOUD_CAT> Plautus initially reset his block too
2008-03-07 13:18 < LOUD_CAT> that's why it wasn't exactly a year
2008-03-07 13:18 < Golbez> LOUD_CAT- I sometimes wish I had some of these benign crackpots chatting with me. I tend to get the malignant ones. :(
2008-03-07 13:18 < zvook> ...a full month not editing when he could
2008-03-07 13:19 < Jayron32> Look, if he really wanted to contribute constructively, he'd'a created a clean account months ago and been a good citizen... If you behave yourself, its really not that hard. Re: Archtransit... People WANT to be recognized for being pains-in-the-ass...
2008-03-07 13:19 < Ceiling_Cat> I wonder if http://www.kapitalism.net/thoughts/wikipedia.htm is going to be updated
2008-03-07 13:20 < Ceiling_Cat> or perhaps he'll start a thread on trollreview
2008-03-07 13:26 < M1rth> afternoon... looking for MoP or Alison... but I think I hit the wrong channel a second ago.
2008-03-07 13:29 < LOUD_CAT> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Fuzheado#Wikipedia_Weekly_42
2008-03-07 13:29 < LOUD_CAT> What do you guys think?
2008-03-07 13:29 * LOUD_CAT wants feedback
2008-03-07 13:30 < SQLDb> M1rth: I don't think either of them are online right now, sorry
2008-03-07 13:31 < Jayron32> M1rth, is there something another admin can help you with?
2008-03-07 13:31 < SQLDb> M1rth: I'm sure they both have e-mail enabled, however, if you need to reach them
2008-03-07 13:31 < Jayron32> Try posting to WP:ANI maybe?
2008-03-07 13:32 < M1rth> Jayron, yeah - you just denied the unbl. request of FFS, I'm confused as to why.
2008-03-07 13:33 < M1rth> Both I and Thibbs are in agreement if you see Thibbs' talk page; in addition, I've found at least two spots where the blocking admin was in a content dispute with the user
2008-03-07 13:33 < AdamBishop> LOUD_CAT, as long as episodes of anime are being produced, we will never run out of topics
2008-03-07 13:33 < M1rth> which explains why he's so bloodthistry about keeping it an indef
2008-03-07 13:34 < M1rth> From what I see, a new user's been hit by [[WP:BITE]] behavior at least 3 times, and the response was an indef? Hardly a way to welcome new editors and teach them to be good editors.
2008-03-07 13:34 < Ceiling_Cat> AdamBishop - true enough, but the point I was making is that Wikipedia really has only scratched the surface of what's out there
2008-03-07 13:34 < Ceiling_Cat> Andrew LIh said Wikipedia is 80% finished
2008-03-07 13:34 < Ceiling_Cat> this is, IMO, profoundly incorrect
2008-03-07 13:34 < scorchsaber_> I don't think Wikipedia can ever be finished.
2008-03-07 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> I can't remember where I read it, but someone made the point that if you has a high schooler how much he knows of everything there is to know, he might say 50%
2008-03-07 13:35 < TheWeasel> Ceiling_Cat: If you take the "end of history" a bit too seriously...
2008-03-07 13:35 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-07 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> and if you ask a college graduate, he might say 20%
2008-03-07 13:35 < M1rth> if you want to discuss this privately Jayron, that's fine too
2008-03-07 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> and if you ask a graduate student, he might say 2%
2008-03-07 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> the point is, there is a *LOT* of knowledge out there
2008-03-07 13:36 < Ceiling_Cat> far, far more than most people realize - even very smart people like Andrew Lih
2008-03-07 13:36 < AdamBishop> yes, I was just going to add that I only know like 10% of the literature in my specialized area
2008-03-07 13:36 < AdamBishop> and that only takes up a couple of rows of shelves in the library
2008-03-07 13:36 < NotACow> wikipedia is 80% full of bees.
2008-03-07 13:37 < TheWeasel> there are huge gaps about central Europe
2008-03-07 13:37 < NotACow> wikipedia is 80% finished in the sense that it contains 80% of the information it will ever contain
2008-03-07 13:37 < TheWeasel> (which isn't even close to an obscure field)
2008-03-07 13:37 < M1rth> Jayron?
2008-03-07 13:37 < Jayron32> M1rth, his unblock request was nothing more than a continuation of his problematic behavior. He was blocked for incivility and disruption, and in his unblock request, he calls someone a "liar" and claims that some "buddy" admins are ganging up to frame him. Doesn't sound like he's reformed to me.
2008-03-07 13:37 < NotACow> there is a lto more that could be added, but it never will be because of wikipedia's organizational flaw.s
2008-03-07 13:37 < M1rth> Jayron - #1, the "liar" he appears to be referring to is Thibbs, who did in fact mistakenly claim a 3RR violation.
2008-03-07 13:38 < Ceiling_Cat> IMNSHO, Wikipedia's main problem going forward is finding people willng and able to write high specialized articles
2008-03-07 13:38 * NotACow has no problem banning people who are unable to present a dispute in a civil manner
2008-03-07 13:38 < M1rth> #2 - look at Jersyko's edits I've pointed out, and the combined behavior of Eleland/Nishidani (plus, another user who hunted down 3 of his edits in a row).
2008-03-07 13:38 < M1rth> I can see where he's feeling attacked there
2008-03-07 13:38 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: in an environment where they will be surrounded by trolls and by stupid know-it-alls? ain't gonna happen.
2008-03-07 13:38 < TheWeasel> Rather, a) finding a readership and b) factchecking of highly specialized articles
2008-03-07 13:38 < Jayron32> M1rth, his difs show a clear pattern of personal attacks and disruption. I'll post a choice few. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tomorrow%27s_Pioneers&diff=prev&oldid=196560684 he calls
2008-03-07 13:39 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-03-07 13:39 < M1rth> I have no problem banning people who are "unable" to be civil, but I have a big problem biting the noobs when they get into a tiff with known POV and OWN problem editors themselves
2008-03-07 13:39 < Jayron32> he calls a long time editor a "thretening abusive person"
2008-03-07 13:39 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - I don't think that's true. Look at Tim Vickers
2008-03-07 13:39 * Krimpet thinks dispute resolution would be far better if we pumped all arbitration requests through the lolinator first
2008-03-07 13:39 < M1rth> Right after the person'd left an insulting message calling a content dispute "vandalism"
2008-03-07 13:39 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: one counterexample. you need hundreds, perhaps thousands.
2008-03-07 13:39 < M1rth> I don't disagree they need work, but the indef-block is ridiculous
2008-03-07 13:39 < AdamBishop> I imagine Wikipedia will eventually just spiral into irrelevance
2008-03-07 13:40 < AdamBishop> something better will come along, or everyone will just get bored
2008-03-07 13:40 < NotACow> AdamBishop: it already is.
2008-03-07 13:40 < Krimpet> http://lolinator.com/lol/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_apartheid <- much better. ^^
2008-03-07 13:40 < NotACow> AdamBishop: two years tops.
2008-03-07 13:40 < Jayron32> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Israeli-Palestinian_conflict&diff=prev&oldid=195822278 is WAY beyond the pale. I would have given an indef block on this comment ALONE.
2008-03-07 13:40 < M1rth> It'd be different if they were inserting nothing but profanity into articles or something, but that's not the case, they are at least TRYING to make good edits.
2008-03-07 13:40 < TheWeasel> M1rth: Happened to me on my first day, good thing I wasn't banned as I would be now.
2008-03-07 13:40 < AdamBishop> or it will be overcome by stupid nonsense, which is where it is heading now, in my opinion