freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-07 00:53 < Talleyrand> *accessing
2008-03-07 00:53 < pengo> Talleyrand: yup, but same API
2008-03-07 00:54 < zocky> quanticle, yugoslavia had a strong national identity, now it doesn't exist. china has a strong national identity now, but it was almost nonexistent at other times. germany likewise, etc.
2008-03-07 00:54 < Talleyrand> Ah here we go.
2008-03-07 00:54 < Talleyrand> Query API.
2008-03-07 00:57 < yao_ziyuan> i just made a dirty edit to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component#External_links
2008-03-07 00:59 < quanticle> zocky: Well, all of those trends have been fairly linear, not cyclical. Germany had a rising sense of unity and national identity following the end of the Holy Roman Empire. The division between East and West occured not because of a decline in national identity, but because of the intervention of outside powers. China likewise had a sense of national identity, but was carved up into "spheres of influence" by colonial powers. Yugoslavia had
2008-03-07 00:59 < quanticle> Whoa. That was like an essay...
2008-03-07 00:59 < zocky> quanticle, germany had ups and downs, as did china
2008-03-07 00:59 < zocky> and as did yugoslavia
2008-03-07 01:00 < quanticle> Anyway, I'm off to bed.
2008-03-07 01:00 * zocky is hungry
2008-03-07 01:01 < yao_ziyuan> i propose, besides "External Links", we use a dedicated section name for external wikis
2008-03-07 01:01 < yao_ziyuan> "External Wikis"
2008-03-07 01:02 < yao_ziyuan> create a culture of creating domain-specific wikis and linking to them from wikipedia
2008-03-07 01:03 < yao_ziyuan> that would be beneficial to both these domain wikis and wikipedia as a central portal
2008-03-07 01:03 < yao_ziyuan> an example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_component#External_links
2008-03-07 01:03 < yao_ziyuan> the first external link is "CodeCodex: A software component wiki", which i just added.
2008-03-07 01:04 < yao_ziyuan> dont you guys ever think of "wikipedia's next step"?
2008-03-07 01:05 < Mike_H> Right now I'm thinking of "Wikipedia's misstep."
2008-03-07 01:05 < yao_ziyuan> lol
2008-03-07 01:06 < yao_ziyuan> there is an interesting aspect in software development. if you're an app developer and you use a component developed by someone else,
2008-03-07 01:06 < yao_ziyuan> you don't have to know the programming language in which that component is written
2008-03-07 01:06 < yao_ziyuan> nor do you need to know the internal logic of the component's implementation
2008-03-07 01:06 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Nongovernmental_International_Panel_on_Climate_Change&diff=196479135&oldid=196471595
2008-03-07 01:06 < yao_ziyuan> you just need to learn its interface
2008-03-07 01:06 < Ceiling_Cat> oh man that felt good
2008-03-07 01:07 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: Nonsense
2008-03-07 01:07 < yao_ziyuan> this aspect can be analogized to knowledge management.
2008-03-07 01:07 < Ceiling_Cat> venting is a healthy activity - especially when the person you vent on deserves it
2008-03-07 01:07 < Ceiling_Cat> :P
2008-03-07 01:07 < yao_ziyuan> wikipedia is like an app that makes calls to more specific "domain wikis"
2008-03-07 01:08 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: That's nonsense because, unless you know about how the external library is implemented, you don't know how it'll fail
2008-03-07 01:08 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/LeakyAbstractions.html
2008-03-07 01:08 < yao_ziyuan> quanticle: if it fails, you have to debug it or just use another library
2008-03-07 01:08 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: And how can you debug if you don't know the language it was implemented in?
2008-03-07 01:08 < yao_ziyuan> when you debug it, you do need to know its internal language and logic
2008-03-07 01:09 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: Its not just for fault though. Certain language features are slow and other are quick. Unless you know how a library does what it does, you have no way of evaluating it.
2008-03-07 01:09 < yao_ziyuan> i mean, wikipedia does not have to manage all domain knowledge, such as software components. let an external wiki like CodeCodex take care of software components. and wikipedia just make a link to it.
2008-03-07 01:11 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: Why? Its not like it hurts Wikipedia to have that knowledge in it.
2008-03-07 01:11 < yao_ziyuan> quanticle: performance? you can blackbox-test a component's performance
2008-03-07 01:11 < yao_ziyuan> quanticle: if wikipedia wants to document software components, i have no objection...
2008-03-07 01:12 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: To be clear: I'm not objecting to your "external wikis" section. I'm just saying that the presence of information on other, more specialized wikis should not mean that such information should be removed fro Wikipedia.
2008-03-07 01:13 < quanticle> *from
2008-03-07 01:13 < Demi> in a practical sense, quanticle is right about software libraries
2008-03-07 01:13 < yao_ziyuan> i never say they should be excluded from wikipedia
2008-03-07 01:13 < quanticle> Demi: I don't agree with Joel Spolsky on a lot of things, but I do like his "leaky abstraction" idea.
2008-03-07 01:13 < yao_ziyuan> many of microsoft's sdks are closed-source
2008-03-07 01:13 < yao_ziyuan> and we still use them well :)
2008-03-07 01:14 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: And I've found bugs in Microsoft SDKs. Its one of the reasons I heavily favor open source for my personal projects.
2008-03-07 01:14 * draziLtsaF4 is now going to bed, good night!
2008-03-07 01:14 < Demi> and have (sometimes hard-won and bitterly fought) knowledge of how at least some of their internals must work
2008-03-07 01:15 < Demi> and anyway, all of oracle's internals are equally proprietary, but you can still learn how it all works
2008-03-07 01:15 < quanticle> Demi: Yeah. That too. There's nothing worse than having to decompile an external library to try to figure out why its not doing what you tell it to do.
2008-03-07 01:15 < yao_ziyuan> i know. sometimes i have to put a microsoft component in a separate process and restart that process if the component makes too much memory leakage
2008-03-07 01:16 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: My point exactly. If you were using proper components you wouldn't have to worry about side effects like that, since the memory leakage is a consequence of the internal implementation, not the interface.
2008-03-07 01:17 < quanticle> Also, having to put things in their own process space sucks. You lose a lot of advantages, since IPC is still pretty slow.
2008-03-07 01:17 < yao_ziyuan> restarting a process is slower :)
2008-03-07 01:18 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: But a restarting a crashed app is slowest of all ;)
2008-03-07 01:18 < quanticle> <sigh> I'm in a software engineering class right now, and I get depressed every time I go to it, since I'm always reminded how much software sucks when I'm in that class.
2008-03-07 01:19 < Daniel_Bush> The subject of an article I wrote is editing his biography. Some of it is correcting errors, one about his birthdate, another about the founding of a lawfirm, and a third that was sourced from a newspaper with apparently inaccurate information. But he also removed information about record low voter turnout (which probably shouldn't have been in the lead, though) and advertised his website in...
2008-03-07 01:19 < Daniel_Bush> ...the article, but really the only thing that needs much fixing is formatting...
2008-03-07 01:19 < yao_ziyuan> classes never tell you how to develop
2008-03-07 01:20 < Daniel_Bush> I don't feel like being involved with something I wrote back in 2006
2008-03-07 01:20 < Daniel_Bush> It'll get better eventually
2008-03-07 01:20 < Demi> i don't regret taking any of the programming classes i took; but i only took one
2008-03-07 01:21 < quanticle> yao_ziyuan: I hear that. I don't think I've actually learned how to program from any of my classes. The classes give you the theoretical background you need. The programming skill comes from your own practice.
2008-03-07 01:23 < yao_ziyuan> quanticle: i didn't restart that process when it crashes. i restarted it as soon as it ate more than 5 MB of RAM...
2008-03-07 01:25 < yao_ziyuan> it was a time when i considered these tricks and workarounds "trade secrets"
2008-03-07 01:25 < yao_ziyuan> and thought money was the only value
2008-03-07 01:27 < The359> errr...
2008-03-07 01:27 < The359> wiki@wikimedia.org
2008-03-07 01:27 < The359> Is that a legit Wikipedia email?
2008-03-07 01:28 * yao_ziyuan has completed downloading Fedora 9 Alpha KDE Live CD ISO
2008-03-07 01:28 * yao_ziyuan creates a new virtual machine in VirtualBox
2008-03-07 01:28 < The359> Someone from the IP address 71.98.151.25 requested that we send you a new login password for the English Wikipedia.
2008-03-07 01:38 < The359> 224jeff6 is taking a long wikibreak and will be back on Wikipedia probably never, because he has no time for people to critiscize him of bogus shit when he's just trying to help make the internet not suck! Unlike you 30 year old bastards living in your parents' basement, this user has a life!.
2008-03-07 01:38 < The359> wah?
2008-03-07 01:38 < Mike_H> So much of a life that he's here with us?
2008-03-07 01:38 < Mike_H> yeah, okay
2008-03-07 01:38 < Rinn> Was he the one with the terrible userpage?
2008-03-07 01:38 < The359> yes
2008-03-07 01:38 < The359> he's apparently mad I deleted pictures of cars that were blatant publicity photos he uploaded
2008-03-07 01:39 < The359> Claiming A) he took the photos and B) actually owned the cars
2008-03-07 01:43 < yao_ziyuan> wow. it works.
2008-03-07 01:43 < yao_ziyuan> i tried the same ISO file in vmware,
2008-03-07 01:43 < yao_ziyuan> and it didn't work.
2008-03-07 01:44 * yao_ziyuan is reading Military Power of the People's Republic of China
2008-03-07 01:46 < The359> http://www.skyscrapernews.com/images/pics/1357FullMoonRising_pic1.jpg wtf?
2008-03-07 01:46 < yao_ziyuan> china's ruling class spends almost all its world factory revenues in military buildup. how good it would be if all this military fruit returns to the people
2008-03-07 01:47 < yao_ziyuan> the_giver is from stanford...
2008-03-07 01:47 < Rinn> The359: THAT'S NO- oh, nevermind.
2008-03-07 01:47 < yao_ziyuan> figures...
2008-03-07 01:48 * brown_cat snuggles Rinn
2008-03-07 01:48 * Rinn suffocates and dies
2008-03-07 01:48 < yao_ziyuan> "suffocate", a word beyond my knowledge
2008-03-07 01:48 < The359> yes, way ahread of you there, Rinn
2008-03-07 01:48 < yao_ziyuan> but it may relate to 'suffer'
2008-03-07 01:49 < Rinn> yao_ziyuan: Death due to lack of oxygen.
2008-03-07 01:49 < yao_ziyuan> and "-cate" may relate to 'complicate'
2008-03-07 01:49 < yao_ziyuan> Rinn: but i don't see a root for oxygen here
2008-03-07 01:49 < Rinn> Or rather, the deprivation of oxygen itself.
2008-03-07 01:49 * Rinn shrugs, "English, eh."
2008-03-07 01:50 < yao_ziyuan> Fedora 9 Alpha is loading KDE 4 now
2008-03-07 01:50 < yao_ziyuan> context gives more information than literal hints
2008-03-07 01:50 < yao_ziyuan> first one should guess 'suffocate' is a process before death
2008-03-07 01:51 < yao_ziyuan> most probably an illness
2008-03-07 01:51 < yao_ziyuan> and it looks so similar to 'suffer'
2008-03-07 01:52 < zocky> yao_ziyuan, one can also look in a dictionary
2008-03-07 01:52 < yao_ziyuan> but the 'oxygen' part of information is impossible to obtain
2008-03-07 01:58 < yao_ziyuan> but it's a networked world and it's an irc channel, so i can either type a short line to request definition, or manually look up dictionary.com, or just ignore the missing information
2008-03-07 01:59 < the_giver> yeah...
2008-03-07 02:00 < the_giver> yao_ziyuan, ....
2008-03-07 02:00 < yao_ziyuan> because this missing information doesn't seem to affect me too much
2008-03-07 02:00 < Casull> Hmmm. Does this article seem like a personal attack on someone? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Karjala
2008-03-07 02:01 < yao_ziyuan> determining whether an unknown deserves one's further exploration is also a function of the context
2008-03-07 02:03 < The359> It looks like it needs to be speedied, Casull
2008-03-07 02:04 < yao_ziyuan> i remember there was a vote on whether to keep an article about the namer of the Spirit spacecraft
2008-03-07 02:05 < yao_ziyuan> a friend of mine, who uses "Yao Ziyuan" as his wikipedia account name, was enthusiastic about that fight
2008-03-07 02:06 < yao_ziyuan> why did he fight for an article for a little girl who named that spacecraft "Spirit"?
2008-03-07 02:07 < yao_ziyuan> wow! fedora 9 alpha with kde4 is beautiful!
2008-03-07 02:08 < Casull> RRRRGH FEDORA
2008-03-07 02:13 * brown_cat stole Ceiling_Cat's hole in the ceiling ^_^
2008-03-07 02:14 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Frederick Seitz]] died. Couldn't have happened to someone more deserving.
2008-03-07 02:14 < brown_cat> YAY!
2008-03-07 02:16 < Demi> we've all got it coming, kind
2008-03-07 02:16 < Demi> fuck
2008-03-07 02:17 < Demi> kid
2008-03-07 02:17 < Demi> nothing like a typo to torpedo a perfectly good unforgiven quote
2008-03-07 02:18 < Ceiling_Cat> Demi - what can I say, there are certain people without whom the world would be a better place
2008-03-07 02:18 < Ceiling_Cat> and he was one of them
2008-03-07 02:19 < yao_ziyuan> "List of scientists opposing global warming consensus", ...
2008-03-07 02:20 < Ceiling_Cat> yao_ziyuan - yes, he was one of the more reputable ones too (at least at one point, he was)
2008-03-07 02:20 < Ceiling_Cat> it's people like him who serve as camoflauge for the true intellectual bankruptcy of the global warming denial movement
2008-03-07 02:20 < Ceiling_Cat> before he was a global warming denier, he was a 2nd-hand smoke denier
2008-03-07 02:22 < brown_cat> xD
2008-03-07 02:23 < yao_ziyuan> many chinese here in china believe this winter's snowstorm was made by america's HAARP
2008-03-07 02:23 < yao_ziyuan> weather weapons...
2008-03-07 02:24 < Ceiling_Cat> if we had weather weapons, why would we risk exposing them at a time when the US and China are not in conflit, and (to be frank) the US has higher priorities elsewhere?\
2008-03-07 02:24 < yao_ziyuan> thinking america can play god is a positive thing for the chinese
2008-03-07 02:25 < yao_ziyuan> so they can surrender sooner
2008-03-07 02:25 < meco> Wikipedia isn't responding
2008-03-07 02:26 < yao_ziyuan> why wouldn't you expose them? america is so transparent about its military development...
2008-03-07 02:26 < brown_cat> rofl http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=388711&rss=yes
2008-03-07 02:26 < yao_ziyuan> and it urges china to expose military development too
2008-03-07 02:26 < yao_ziyuan> not that i don't know what 'black projects' mean
2008-03-07 02:27 < DannyLilithborne> by military development do you mean killing American kids with lead paint? ^_^
2008-03-07 02:27 < DannyLilithborne> i kid i kid
2008-03-07 02:27 < yao_ziyuan> ...
2008-03-07 02:30 < yao_ziyuan> those who keep confrontation and wars alive make big money
2008-03-07 02:30 < yao_ziyuan> like in china, the Party keeps the people competing against each other over everything
2008-03-07 02:31 < yao_ziyuan> american defense contractors keep dictatorships alive to make a living
2008-03-07 02:32 < yao_ziyuan> just look at how evil bill gates is
2008-03-07 02:32 < yao_ziyuan> and imagine how many times more evil those defense executives are
2008-03-07 02:32 < meco> Anyone here concerned with that online status of Wikipedia?
2008-03-07 02:34 < DannyLilithborne> i can get on wikipedia fine
2008-03-07 02:34 < DannyLilithborne> and dude... bill gates is about as evil as high fructose corn syrup
2008-03-07 02:34 < meco> I'm in Norway, maybe there's a routing issue
2008-03-07 02:34 < yao_ziyuan> the USAF askes $300 billion for F-35s
2008-03-07 02:34 < yao_ziyuan> and they use china as the reason
2008-03-07 02:35 < yao_ziyuan> the american military-industry complex and the chinese government are collaborative!
2008-03-07 02:36 < yao_ziyuan> s/askes/asks for, i was not taking care of form
2008-03-07 02:39 < yao_ziyuan> but i shouldn't be so pessimistic
2008-03-07 02:44 < yao_ziyuan> but they definitely inflict nationalism in russia and china
2008-03-07 02:44 < yao_ziyuan> and putin must be a shareholder
2008-03-07 02:46 < The359> uhhh...what?
2008-03-07 02:46 < The359> What does China have to do with the F-35?
2008-03-07 02:47 < yao_ziyuan> The359: http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/03/air-force-to-ta.html
2008-03-07 02:47 < yao_ziyuan> $20 billion
2008-03-07 02:47 < yao_ziyuan> i was wrong
2008-03-07 02:48 < yao_ziyuan> i said $300 billion :)
2008-03-07 02:48 < yao_ziyuan> also read:
2008-03-07 02:48 < yao_ziyuan> http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/03/us-navy-carrier.html
2008-03-07 02:48 < yao_ziyuan> and http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/03/china-big-bad-o.html
2008-03-07 02:49 < yao_ziyuan> "Chinese defense spending, at an estimated $140 billion, is now the highest in Asia, higher even than Russia's, Japan’s and South Korea’s official budgets combined"
2008-03-07 02:49 < The359> ...
2008-03-07 02:49 < yao_ziyuan> "In 2003, just 10 percent of China’s military equipment was of modern types; today 40 percent of submarines, 30 percent of surface ships, 20 percent of fighters and 100 percent of air defense systems are modern"
2008-03-07 02:51 < yao_ziyuan> i'm afraid of two things
2008-03-07 02:51 < The359> so China is intentionally improving its defenses to help the United States ask its taxpayers for more money for improved weapons...
2008-03-07 02:51 < yao_ziyuan> one is that america's military-industry complex never invades china
2008-03-07 02:51 < yao_ziyuan> the other is if they do, they nuke the chinese people
2008-03-07 02:52 < yao_ziyuan> they're only responsible to their shareholders
2008-03-07 02:52 < yao_ziyuan> the target country's people's lives are less of a factor in their concern
2008-03-07 02:53 < yao_ziyuan> just look at iraqi civilian death roll
2008-03-07 02:56 < yao_ziyuan> a good move would be to make the american public believe that people outside america are also their fellows
2008-03-07 02:57 < DannyLilithborne> americans allied with outsiders? that's unpossible!
2008-03-07 02:57 < yao_ziyuan> that would pressure the military-industry complex to liberate, but not to nuke, the rest of the world
2008-03-07 02:58 < yao_ziyuan> there are three classes of people
2008-03-07 02:59 < yao_ziyuan> the first class is is executives and big shareholders of america's military-industry complex and their collaborators in russia and china, i.e. putin and china's Party
2008-03-07 02:59 < yao_ziyuan> the second class is american taxpayers
2008-03-07 02:59 < yao_ziyuan> which contribute money to the first class
2008-03-07 02:59 < yao_ziyuan> the third class is people in non-free countries
2008-03-07 03:00 < Daniel_Bush_> China justifies its military budget being so big by saying that they spend a smaller fraction of its GDP on its military. Really, though, the bigger the country, the smaller proportion of the GDP should be the military budget, because so much of a military budget is composed of research. Once you've found out how to make a weapon, that's forever.
2008-03-07 03:00 < yao_ziyuan> which contribute money to the first class and cheap products to the second class
2008-03-07 03:00 < yao_ziyuan> and can be nuked if things go out of control
2008-03-07 03:01 < Mike_H> OverlordQ: Are you awake?
2008-03-07 03:01 < OverlordQ> yea
2008-03-07 03:01 < Mike_H> You know the names of most of the Top Model girls, right?
2008-03-07 03:01 < OverlordQ> yea
2008-03-07 03:01 < Mike_H> okay
2008-03-07 03:01 < Mike_H> and you've been following the Jimmy/Rachel drama right?
2008-03-07 03:01 < yao_ziyuan> in order to tame the first class, the second class and the third class must unite
2008-03-07 03:02 < OverlordQ> a bit
2008-03-07 03:02 < Mike_H> OverlordQ: Okay
2008-03-07 03:02 < Mike_H> so this is a picture of Rachel
2008-03-07 03:02 < Mike_H> tell me which bitchy ANTMer she looks like
2008-03-07 03:02 < Mike_H> http://valleywag.com/assets/resources/2008/02/marsdenwikipedia.jpg
2008-03-07 03:02 < OverlordQ> oh balls, brain fart, whats her name
2008-03-07 03:02 < Mike_H> Melrose.
2008-03-07 03:03 < Mike_H> http://mediatakeout.com/Photos/Melrose_ANTM.jpg
2008-03-07 03:03 < OverlordQ> heh, admit had to google her :) I missed most of like 6-8
2008-03-07 03:04 < Mike_H> She is so like an older version of Melrose
2008-03-07 03:04 < Mike_H> I'm so happy that I caught it
2008-03-07 03:05 < OverlordQ> heheh
2008-03-07 03:05 < OverlordQ> so what you think of 10 so far?
2008-03-07 03:05 < Mike_H> It sucks.
2008-03-07 03:05 < OverlordQ> heh
2008-03-07 03:05 < Mike_H> This will probably be the cycle where I stop watching.
2008-03-07 03:09 < wahrheit> new house episodes next month, am i right? too long of a wait
2008-03-07 03:10 < AdamBishop> you should watch America's Most Smartest Model
2008-03-07 03:10 < yao_ziyuan> Tyrannies are a disease that plagues not only people in non-free countries but taxpayers in the free world and should be solved as soon as possible.
2008-03-07 03:10 < wahrheit> is this a real show?
2008-03-07 03:10 < AdamBishop> [[America's Most Smartest Model]]
2008-03-07 03:11 < wahrheit> hehe i'll check it out
2008-03-07 03:11 < wahrheit> oh VH1
2008-03-07 03:11 < Mike_H> AdamBishop: I already watch ANTM and Big Brother
2008-03-07 03:11 < Mike_H> and sometimes Flavor of Love
2008-03-07 03:11 < Mike_H> I can't add another reality show.
2008-03-07 03:12 < wahrheit> too much reality
2008-03-07 03:12 < wahrheit> AdamBishop: i'm torrenting the first ep
2008-03-07 03:12 < wahrheit> thanks for the recommendation, i needed something amusing to watch
2008-03-07 03:15 < AdamBishop> wow, Ben Stein is a creationist
2008-03-07 03:15 < Demi> big time
2008-03-07 03:15 < wahrheit> ben stein is great
2008-03-07 03:15 < Demi> are you pondering that video?
2008-03-07 03:15 < Mike_H> wahrheit: You couldn't have killed your remaining brain cells with
2008-03-07 03:15 < Mike_H> "Big Brother: 'Til Death Do Us Fart"?
2008-03-07 03:16 < yao_ziyuan> i even begin to think the nuked japanese people were an example of my theory
2008-03-07 03:16 < wahrheit> My brain cells are going to die anyway
2008-03-07 03:16 < yao_ziyuan> the people were nuked and the japanese emperor was fine
2008-03-07 03:17 < TheWeasel> Morning lads n lasses
2008-03-07 03:18 < theINC> I can't believe japanese still call their head of state the emperor. Very archaic. but then again, so is calling our head of state the king/queen
2008-03-07 03:18 < Mike_H> wahrheit: Next week America votes to bring an evicted houseguest back in the game. I hate nearly all of them so I'm rooting for Amanda, who had the squeakiest voice and loved to yell "BUENO! BUENO!"
2008-03-07 03:19 < TheWeasel> I am TheWeasel, and I approve this massage.
2008-03-07 03:19 < TheWeasel> (sic)
2008-03-07 03:19 < theINC> so, speaking of america and voting
2008-03-07 03:19 < theINC> I like Obama.
2008-03-07 03:19 < TheWeasel> with the difference that "king" is just descriptive, not just an extravagant synonym of "head of state"
2008-03-07 03:20 < yao_ziyuan> theINC: do you know there is a Wired story saying Hillary's campaign darkened Obama's face in their promo videos?
2008-03-07 03:20 < TheWeasel> It's easy to overrate Obama.
2008-03-07 03:20 < theINC> yao_ziyuan: to bring racism to people's hearts or something?
2008-03-07 03:20 < AdamBishop> I like Mitt Romney, because his name is a piece of equipment
2008-03-07 03:20 < theINC> but he's not around anymore.
2008-03-07 03:20 < yao_ziyuan> hillary is doomed
2008-03-07 03:21 < AdamBishop> Mitt Romney should have Bat Masterson as his running mate
2008-03-07 03:21 < TheWeasel> Ohio voters certainly didn't think so
2008-03-07 03:21 * TheWeasel thinks one should just ignore the media
2008-03-07 03:21 < AdamBishop> and Danny Glover as Secretary of State
2008-03-07 03:21 < TheWeasel> they have been wrong at every single turn that presented itself this season
2008-03-07 03:21 < Demi> hehe
2008-03-07 03:22 < Demi> they could dig up the corpse of Lucille Ball and establish an overseas White House on the River Plate
2008-03-07 03:23 < theINC> Well, I'm not a big fan of McCain, or republicans in general
2008-03-07 03:23 < TheWeasel> Uruguay, Paraguay and Columbiaguay
2008-03-07 03:24 < AdamBishop> hahaha
2008-03-07 03:24 < AdamBishop> Dustin Diamond could be in the cabinet somewhere
2008-03-07 03:26 < TheWeasel> whats the pattern here?
2008-03-07 03:26 < AdamBishop> mitt, bat, glove, ball, plate, diamond
2008-03-07 03:27 < TheWeasel> Oh
2008-03-07 03:27 < TheWeasel> I see.
2008-03-07 03:27 < Demi> it's like we're playing a party game of some kind
2008-03-07 03:27 < Demi> like categories or charades
2008-03-07 03:27 < TheWeasel> Neil Innings as honorary consul?
2008-03-07 03:27 < Demi> \o/
2008-03-07 03:27 < TheWeasel> eh...Innes
2008-03-07 03:28 < Demi> Neil Innes is perpetually honorary something
2008-03-07 03:28 < Demi> honorary python, honorary consul, you name it
2008-03-07 03:28 < TheWeasel> haha
2008-03-07 03:32 * TheWeasel dives into the law of zoning
2008-03-07 03:36 < TheWeasel> my book on the subject begins "Everybody lives in space in time. Gestalt and creation of space..."
2008-03-07 03:36 < TheWeasel> I feel like in a claustrophobic Lyotard essay.
2008-03-07 03:37 < TheWeasel> damn systems theorists
2008-03-07 03:38 < AdamBishop> The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a red zone.
2008-03-07 03:39 < TheWeasel> Does vomiting count as unloading?
2008-03-07 03:39 < AdamBishop> The red zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in a white zone.
2008-03-07 03:41 < AdamBishop> what else is there to know, really
2008-03-07 03:41 < TheWeasel> Where's the line between immediate and ... mediate loading?
2008-03-07 03:42 < TheWeasel> "We have always been at war with Oceania."
2008-03-07 03:42 * TheWeasel loves the German word "Fant".
2008-03-07 03:42 < Demi> The Department of Homeland Security has raised the terrorist threat level to: Orange. Please note the increased threat level, and keep baggage with you at all times. Report any suspicious activity to an airport employee, security officer or TSA employee immediately.
2008-03-07 03:43 < AdamBishop> I like the German word "quatsch"
2008-03-07 03:43 < TheWeasel> that one is nice too
2008-03-07 03:43 < TheWeasel> SIE REDEN DOCH QUATSCH, SIE FANT!
2008-03-07 03:43 < Mike_H> I like the German word "Deutsch."
2008-03-07 03:43 * Mike_H smiles
2008-03-07 03:44 < AdamBishop> rauchen verboten!
2008-03-07 03:45 * TheWeasel torches self
2008-03-07 03:46 < TheWeasel> note: not: "touches".
2008-03-07 03:46 * Mike_H NP: Huey Lewis and the News - Power of Love (1985)
2008-03-07 03:47 < ancjr> Mike_H: rock on :)
2008-03-07 04:06 < TheWeasel> Bbl, werk.
2008-03-07 04:07 < Lubaf> There exists no such thing as a laptop keyboard that's in good shape.
2008-03-07 04:07 < Lubaf> It is a null set.
2008-03-07 04:07 < Lubaf> I speak from limited, but definitive, experience.
2008-03-07 04:50 * brown_cat has a smart idea
2008-03-07 04:50 < brown_cat> someone should go to Madame Tussauds and take pics of all the celebs for their article on wikipedia! :D
2008-03-07 04:54 < Lubaf> brown_cat: Tussauds would claim copyright on the figures.
2008-03-07 04:54 < TheWeasel> it's unlikely that we still need a photo of anyone there.
2008-03-07 04:55 < Lubaf> TheWeasel: That too.
2008-03-07 04:55 < brown_cat> Lubaf: how so? you can't copyright personalities you don't own
2008-03-07 04:55 < TheWeasel> But works of art
2008-03-07 04:55 < Lubaf> You can copyright representations of personalities you don't own.
2008-03-07 04:55 < TheWeasel> (hopefully) they're not the real thing
2008-03-07 04:56 < Lubaf> They personality is entitled to some compensation, normally, if the representation is taken from them or directly trading off them.
2008-03-07 04:58 < Lubaf> But, yeah, Tussauds would own the copyright.
2008-03-07 05:15 < brown_cat> I looove the pics on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine xD I wonder how people got access to all those things xD
2008-03-07 05:23 < brown_cat> O_o why is hitler on a condom vending machine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Condom_vendor.jpg
2008-03-07 05:26 < Mike_H> TheWeasel: I found my favorite '70s song again :)
2008-03-07 05:36 < brown_cat> Mike_H: pull shapes?
2008-03-07 05:36 < pengo> Captain Paul Watson was struck by a bullet in the chest.
2008-03-07 05:37 * brown_cat sits on pengo's lap
2008-03-07 05:37 < pengo> uh hello little cat
2008-03-07 05:37 < The359> That looks like the logo for Prussian Blue, brown_cat
2008-03-07 05:37 < The359> so its probably just a sticker
2008-03-07 05:50 < zocky> some people decided that having spaces between groups of decimal numbers, like 3.223 321 1235 is so important that they need to insert a bunch of spans and stuff into the sourcecode
2008-03-07 05:51 < zocky> they even got a developer to promise them a parser function that will do it for them
2008-03-07 05:51 < zocky> so I reverted an article back and forth a bit over it, and then sat down and wrote a template that does exactly what they want
2008-03-07 05:52 < The359> why the fuck would you put spaces in decimals?
2008-03-07 05:53 < zocky> The359, apparently, 3.141592653589 looks entirely awful
2008-03-07 05:54 < The359> apparently people are annoying
2008-03-07 05:59 < pengo> all people?
2008-03-07 06:01 < The359> pretty much
2008-03-07 06:07 < cat> O_o I was watching an apple video - they were talking about iphone + servers and remote wiping - i thought they were talking about wiping the servers remotely xD they meant the iphone :p
2008-03-07 06:20 < pengo> iphones now remotely wipe your ass?
2008-03-07 06:20 < Werdna> pengo: ooh, might be worth it now
2008-03-07 06:21 < pengo> i wipe with my iriver
2008-03-07 06:37 < Scream> NotACow
2008-03-07 07:16 < NotACow> moo
2008-03-07 07:19 < AdamBishop> baa
2008-03-07 07:26 < NotACow> haha!
2008-03-07 07:26 < NotACow> today's xkcd totally rocks
2008-03-07 07:28 < pengo> i'm waiting for the movie to come out
2008-03-07 07:34 < zocky> NotACow, you realize that posting things like that without the url forces me to use keyboard?
2008-03-07 07:35 * AAA^ keyboards zocky
2008-03-07 07:39 < NotACow> zocky: tough shit :)
2008-03-07 07:39 < NotACow> zocky: anybody who doesn't have a shortcut to xkcd is a lamer anyway
2008-03-07 07:40 < zocky> NotACow, shortcut? ts ts. youth these days. can't even remember a couple hundred URLs to type as needed?
2008-03-07 07:41 < pengo> i have a 3 wiggle mouse gesture for it
2008-03-07 07:42 < NotACow> zocky: i would actually type it, myself. but i also have xkcd's rss feed in my aggregator, so i usually just read it from there :)
2008-03-07 08:07 < NotACow> mo.
2008-03-07 08:10 * Werdna hands NotACow an o
2008-03-07 08:10 < cat> are you playing wheel of fortune?
2008-03-07 08:11 < Werdna> yes.
2008-03-07 08:11 < cat> YAY
2008-03-07 08:11 < Werdna> I wonder if adjudicators for debating frown on being eyed off.
2008-03-07 08:39 < Mark_Ryan> hey wikihomies
2008-03-07 08:43 < Mark_Ryan> I take it not much is up.
2008-03-07 08:44 < Cyrius> nope
2008-03-07 08:44 < Mark_Ryan> no fresh scandals? how boring
2008-03-07 08:47 < scorchsaber_> Breaking news: Mark_Ryan rumored to have had affair with Jimmy-- may have asked him to edit articles
2008-03-07 08:47 < Mark_Ryan> no no, it's the other way around, Jimmy asked me to edit his article
2008-03-07 08:48 < scorchsaber_> Ah, ahh...
2008-03-07 08:49 < scorchsaber_> I think I'll spread rumors that he asked you for his girlfriend. ;p)
2008-03-07 08:49 < scorchsaber_> s/p//
2008-03-07 08:50 < Mark_Ryan> it's all true!
2008-03-07 08:51 < arcimboldo_> we should start a soap opera "the foundation".
2008-03-07 08:51 < arcimboldo_> The script is as implausible as that of Dallas or Dynasty
2008-03-07 08:52 < arcimboldo_> Some of the protagonists: A., a 24-year-old student who is thought to be a professor of catholic theology
2008-03-07 08:53 < Mark_Ryan> Essjay was the classic example of why it's not good to tell lies to begin with, or they just get out of control
2008-03-07 08:54 < Mark_Ryan> he was a really nice guy, too. sad :(
2008-03-07 08:54 < arcimboldo_> B., who has become the head of the team but turns out to have a criminal career including having shot her boyfriend ...
2008-03-07 08:54 < Mark_Ryan> hey, it's America...
2008-03-07 08:54 < Mark_Ryan> what do you expect? ;P
2008-03-07 08:55 < arcimboldo_> C., the key person who created it all and has a public affair with a nymphomanic right-wing journalist who sells his clothes on Ebay ....
2008-03-07 08:55 < Mark_Ryan> are the auctions for Jimbo's clothes still ongoing?
2008-03-07 08:56 < Mark_Ryan> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Wikipedia-Jimmy-Wales-domain-name-Jimbo-Wales-co-uk_W0QQitemZ170199041634QQihZ007QQcategoryZ3767QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122 -- dodgy
2008-03-07 08:56 < Mark_Ryan> buy jimbowales.co.uk! on ebay
2008-03-07 09:04 < Mark_Ryan> ouch, I just read the ebay auctions by Jimbo's ex. that isn't very discreet of her.
2008-03-07 09:04 < arcimboldo_> http://cgi.ebay.com/Wikipedia-Jimmy-Jimbo-Wales-T-Shirt-left-at-ex-g-fs_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ2312QQihZ019QQitemZ290211080341QQrdZ1
2008-03-07 09:08 < Mark_Ryan> her article reads to me to be a bit BLP-violationey
2008-03-07 09:08 < Mark_Ryan> "She has been described as feminism's worst nightmare.[3]"
2008-03-07 09:08 < Cyrius> she doesn't know the meaning of the word discreet
2008-03-07 09:08 < Mark_Ryan> a single source for an attack statement.
2008-03-07 09:08 < Cyrius> it's one of the many words she does not know
2008-03-07 09:08 < placebo_effect> if an admin is a user with a mop and bucket, what is a crat?
2008-03-07 09:08 < Mark_Ryan> "She is solidly laissez-faire on the issue of women's rights and appears to be of the opinion that the talents, human physical appearance or personal hygiene of individuals in a constituency are valid political concerns.[14]
2008-03-07 09:08 < Cyrius> placebo_effect: one of those big rotary floor buffers
2008-03-07 09:09 < Mark_Ryan> appears to be? according to whom?
2008-03-07 09:09 < placebo_effect> man, now i want to be a crat, just so i can get the floor buff
2008-03-07 09:10 < nadis> hell
2008-03-07 09:11 < nadis> hello guys
2008-03-07 09:35 * cat watches Mark_Ryan
2008-03-07 09:35 < Mark_Ryan> hey brownie
2008-03-07 09:36 < cat> how are you?
2008-03-07 09:43 < Mark_Ryan> sorry, delayed reaction. cat, I'm okay. how are you?
2008-03-07 09:43 < cat> hahaha, yep, good
2008-03-07 09:43 < cat> upto much?
2008-03-07 09:43 < Mark_Ryan> i am presently trying to keep my eyes open
2008-03-07 09:43 < Mark_Ryan> they are doing the I'm-about-to-fall-asleep slow droop
2008-03-07 09:43 * cat throws Mark_Ryan a red bull
2008-03-07 09:44 < Mark_Ryan> red bull gives you... cancer.
2008-03-07 09:44 < cat> you should go do something that will wake you up
2008-03-07 09:44 < cat> drive down the kwinana a few times
2008-03-07 09:44 < Mark_Ryan> didn't your momma ever tell you not to drive tired?
2008-03-07 09:44 * Mark_Ryan ran through a red light last weekend when he drove home tired
2008-03-07 09:45 < cat> hahahaha
2008-03-07 09:45 < cat> Mark_Ryan: did i talk to you about the kid who was murdered at our school?
2008-03-07 09:45 < Mark_Ryan> cat: no. a kid was murdered at your school? I didn't hear about that
2008-03-07 09:46 < cat> well, a fake plastic knife was pointed to him ;)
2008-03-07 09:46 < cat> but I am moving towards a sunday times pob
2008-03-07 09:46 < cat> *v
2008-03-07 09:46 < NotACow> murdered by a plastic knife?
2008-03-07 09:47 < cat> hahahaha
2008-03-07 09:47 < NotACow> what's he made of, yellowcake?
2008-03-07 09:47 < Mark_Ryan> cat, both our local newspapers are guilty of sensationalism. The West Australian led one Saturday with "FOUND: HMAS Sydney finally discovered"
2008-03-07 09:47 < cat> xD
2008-03-07 09:47 < cat> :o
2008-03-07 09:47 < Mark_Ryan> then it turned out to be the remains of some random other boat
2008-03-07 09:47 < cat> hahahaah
2008-03-07 09:48 < cat> http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23224335-2761,00.html - they added to the end after loads of complaints (see the comments at the bottom) "claim"
2008-03-07 09:48 < cat> ironically above it, in the story index they ran a story about how the west was criticized for sensationalist journalism
2008-03-07 09:52 < Mark_Ryan> heh
2008-03-07 09:52 < Mark_Ryan> News Limited papers love kicking The West Australian in the guts
2008-03-07 09:54 < Mark_Ryan> i wonder when Perth will get its second daily newspaper, if ever, or if the growing internet news market is going to prevent that from being viable
2008-03-07 10:03 < cat> hahaha, hope not
2008-03-07 10:03 < cat> our WAN shares are going through the roof
2008-03-07 10:04 < Mark_Ryan> what, since Seven started buying up big?
2008-03-07 10:04 < cat> nup
2008-03-07 10:04 < cat> way before that
2008-03-07 10:04 < Mark_Ryan> does WAN still part-own Hoyts?
2008-03-07 10:05 < cat> yep
2008-03-07 10:05 < cat> 50
2008-03-07 10:05 < cat> %
2008-03-07 10:06 < cat> eeek
2008-03-07 10:06 < cat> they've gone down recently
2008-03-07 10:06 < cat> http://au.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=WAN.AX&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=
2008-03-07 10:14 < Cyrius> xkcd on the death of Gary Gygax: http://xkcd.com/
2008-03-07 10:23 < Golbez> rofl
2008-03-07 10:23 < Golbez> evil human being
2008-03-07 10:23 < Golbez> also great xkcd, Cyrius
2008-03-07 10:37 < noclip> damn you verizon!
2008-03-07 10:37 < noclip> they're throttling me
2008-03-07 10:37 < noclip> the bastards
2008-03-07 10:37 < NotACow> i'd throttle you too if i could :)
2008-03-07 10:37 < noclip> here's what pisses me off
2008-03-07 10:38 < noclip> verizon is a tier 1 isp
2008-03-07 10:38 < noclip> they can give me as much bandwidth as i want and it wouldn't cost them a dime
2008-03-07 10:38 < NotACow> you can't trust tier 1 ISPs
2008-03-07 10:38 < noclip> you can't trust any isp these days
2008-03-07 10:38 < NotACow> you can't trust anyone
2008-03-07 10:39 < noclip> you can't trust
2008-03-07 10:39 < NotACow> especially not wikipedians, they're a shifty lot.
2008-03-07 10:40 < noclip> i just want to say to the FBI/NSA/RNC: fuck you you fucking fuckers
2008-03-07 10:40 < phenobitch> how do you draw these maps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Karte_Schweiz.png
2008-03-07 10:40 < phenobitch> HOW
2008-03-07 10:40 < noclip> inkscape?
2008-03-07 10:40 < Cyrius> ask the author?
2008-03-07 10:41 < noclip> deep packet analysis is like rape
2008-03-07 10:41 < noclip> wait
2008-03-07 10:41 < noclip> i don't have a punchline
2008-03-07 10:42 < noclip> but it's still true
2008-03-07 10:42 < noclip> verizon is raping my packets
2008-03-07 10:43 < SQLDb> lol
2008-03-07 10:44 < phenobitch> still requires talent
2008-03-07 10:44 < phenobitch> god dammmit
2008-03-07 10:48 < NotACow> my pineapple just ejaculated on me
2008-03-07 10:48 < noclip> everywhere i search it says that verizon does not throttle fios traffic
2008-03-07 10:48 < noclip> i am sitting on proof to the contrary
2008-03-07 10:48 < NotACow> noclip: maybe your sitting on it is what's causing the problem.
2008-03-07 10:49 < noclip> yeah, now that a think about it, a high powered EMF generator is not the best chair
2008-03-07 10:49 < noclip> s/a/i/
2008-03-07 10:50 < noclip> but seriously
2008-03-07 10:50 < noclip> no bittorrent, 15/2
2008-03-07 10:50 < noclip> bittorrent, 1/1
2008-03-07 10:51 < Aqwis> it's the information
2008-03-07 10:51 < noclip> actually, the upload is less
2008-03-07 10:51 < noclip> probably 500k
2008-03-07 10:51 < Aqwis> it wants to be free and not go through your network =(
2008-03-07 10:51 < noclip> so irritating
2008-03-07 10:52 < noclip> so now verizon's offering a 20mbit symmetric plan
2008-03-07 10:52 < noclip> but then they throttle uploads
2008-03-07 10:52 < noclip> so it's not really symmetric at all
2008-03-07 10:53 < noclip> or it _is_ symmetric, at 500k
2008-03-07 10:53 < Aqwis> well, you could upload other things than files over bittorrent you know
2008-03-07 10:53 < noclip> pirated youtube videos?
2008-03-07 10:54 < noclip> streaming video? (they throttle that)
2008-03-07 10:57 < NotACow> bittorrent is evil anyway
2008-03-07 10:57 < noclip> blashpemy
2008-03-07 10:58 < NotACow> it encourages unethical behavior
2008-03-07 10:58 < noclip> *blasphemy
2008-03-07 10:58 < noclip> hmm
2008-03-07 10:58 < noclip> most of society thinks it's ethical
2008-03-07 10:58 < NotACow> people specifically abuse it to create a tragedy of the commons
2008-03-07 10:58 < phenobitch> noclip it is good they throttle
2008-03-07 10:58 < phenobitch> more incentive for smart programmers to write new torrent apps
2008-03-07 10:58 < AAA^> why am i still here?
2008-03-07 10:58 < noclip> phenobitch: i'm using header encryption too
2008-03-07 10:59 < noclip> presumably they already "solved" it
2008-03-07 10:59 < noclip> alright, look at this
2008-03-07 10:59 < noclip> i'm ping -t'ing google.com
2008-03-07 10:59 < noclip> i'm getting about a 30ms latency
2008-03-07 11:00 < noclip> now i start bittorrent
2008-03-07 11:00 < noclip> it divebombs to 75
2008-03-07 11:00 < noclip> getting request timeouts
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> 75 aint that bad-..
2008-03-07 11:01 < noclip> 137 now
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> dsl gets 300-600 at times
2008-03-07 11:01 < NotACow> noclip: dude, that's line saturation
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> no it aint
2008-03-07 11:01 < gwern> #lisp and #emacs must be mourning. joe wizenbaum, of eliza fame, is dead
2008-03-07 11:01 < Aqwis> 300-600?
2008-03-07 11:01 < noclip> from 5k down stream?
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> but maybe fiber works differently
2008-03-07 11:01 < Aqwis> i never get that and i've had DSL for 6 years
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> Aqwis yeah
2008-03-07 11:01 < Cyrius> gwern: why do you think joe wizenbaum is dead?
2008-03-07 11:01 < phenobitch> Aqwis well i can tell you i have!
2008-03-07 11:01 < noclip> 5kb/s is not going to saturate a line
2008-03-07 11:01 < Aqwis> where the heck do you live?
2008-03-07 11:02 < noclip> i'm telling you
2008-03-07 11:02 < gwern> Cyrius: is it because of your father you imitate eliza?
2008-03-07 11:02 < noclip> latency up to 200-300
2008-03-07 11:02 < gwern> thank god we got a picture of Weizenbaum before he kicked the bucket
2008-03-07 11:02 < noclip> interestingly enough
2008-03-07 11:02 < Cyrius> gwern: I was starting to wonder if that was too subtle =)
2008-03-07 11:02 < noclip> it kicked in ~30 seconds after bittorrent started downloading
2008-03-07 11:03 < noclip> it's not saturation, it's throttling
2008-03-07 11:03 < gwern> Cyrius: it wouldn't've been too subtle, even if I hadn't just read a reddit page full of those jokes
2008-03-07 11:03 < noclip> getting request timeouts ever 5-10 tries
2008-03-07 11:04 < noclip> it's like my traffic went from "best effort" to "worst effort"
2008-03-07 11:04 < gwern> noclip: like your mom in bed
2008-03-07 11:04 < noclip> "deliberately unreliable connection effort"
2008-03-07 11:04 < gwern> </zing>
2008-03-07 11:05 < noclip> how clever and original
2008-03-07 11:05 < noclip> i'm going to submit that to bash
2008-03-07 11:05 < noclip> ffs
2008-03-07 11:05 < noclip> timeouts all over the place
2008-03-07 11:06 < noclip> and verizon has no reason to throttle
2008-03-07 11:06 < noclip> i'll bet it's MAFIAA
2008-03-07 11:06 < zocky> "Any editor working on topics related to Earth, broadly defined, may be made subject to an editing restriction at the discretion of any uninvolved administrator."
2008-03-07 11:07 < noclip> wait, what?
2008-03-07 11:07 < zocky> well, now we have "topics related to Eastern Europe, broadly defined"
2008-03-07 11:07 < zocky> which is getting somewhat insulting
2008-03-07 11:07 < noclip> Reply from 64.233.167.99: bytes=32 time=244ms TTL=241
2008-03-07 11:07 < Aqwis> norway borders to an eastern european country
2008-03-07 11:07 < Aqwis> obviously, that includes norway
2008-03-07 11:07 < noclip> Request timed out.
2008-03-07 11:07 < noclip> Reply from 64.233.167.99: bytes=32 time=40ms TTL=241
2008-03-07 11:08 < noclip> bullshit
2008-03-07 11:08 < noclip> the moment i terminated the bittorrent process
2008-03-07 11:08 < noclip> it dropped from 244 to 40
2008-03-07 11:08 < noclip> meanwhile, i can download 1080p movie trailers from apple in realtime
2008-03-07 11:09 < noclip> but it's fine
2008-03-07 11:09 < noclip> because the internet is tubes
2008-03-07 11:09 < gwern> sounds like someone needs a application of the net-neutrality cluebat
2008-03-07 11:09 < noclip> and the tubes need to be filled, and when they're filled
2008-03-07 11:09 < Demi> zocky - we should just go ahead and put prospective probations an any eastern european users
2008-03-07 11:10 < noclip> i hate verizon so much
2008-03-07 11:10 < noclip> but when the choice is verizon vs. comcast
2008-03-07 11:11 < NotACow> comcast is eviler.
2008-03-07 11:11 < gwern> 'there goes Verizon Brown! Good ol' Verizon Brown....How I hate him.'
2008-03-07 11:11 < noclip> yeah
2008-03-07 11:11 < noclip> but seriously, wtf
2008-03-07 11:11 < NotACow> noclip: comcast blocked google last tuesday in my area.
2008-03-07 11:11 < NotACow> noclip: any attempt to connect to google would get reset after about five seconds
2008-03-07 11:12 < noclip> did they forward the domain to "comcast ultrapowersupersearch"
2008-03-07 11:12 < NotACow> noclip: no, it was their "random reset" behavior, the same thing they do to bittorrent and lotus notes
2008-03-07 11:12 < NotACow> they also did it to CNN.COM
2008-03-07 11:12 < NotACow> ON ELECTION NIGHT
2008-03-07 11:12 < noclip> verizon forwards domains that don't resolve to its own search engine
2008-03-07 11:12 < noclip> it's disgusting
2008-03-07 11:12 < noclip> but i still won't use opendns
2008-03-07 11:12 < NotACow> noclip: i don't notice that because i don't use comcast's DNS
2008-03-07 11:12 < noclip> ^
2008-03-07 11:12 < NotACow> i run my own DNS server
2008-03-07 11:12 < Aqwis> i hear the US has got terrible ISPs
2008-03-07 11:12 < Aqwis> i feel for you
2008-03-07 11:13 < noclip> if comcast is hitler, verizon is mussolini
2008-03-07 11:13 < NotACow> bind9 is easy to run
2008-03-07 11:14 < noclip> bah
2008-03-07 11:15 < noclip> wow, i just noticed
2008-03-07 11:15 < noclip> Packets: Sent = 273, Received = 205, Lost = 68 (24% loss),
2008-03-07 11:15 < noclip> 24%!
2008-03-07 11:15 < zocky> Demi, do you use my link complete script much?
2008-03-07 11:15 < zocky> Demi, heh, obviously not
2008-03-07 11:16 < noclip> that is obscene
2008-03-07 11:16 < noclip> i wonder if they'll deny if it i call them
2008-03-07 11:17 < noclip> because seriously, throttling is one thing
2008-03-07 11:17 < zocky> noclip, my ISP told me that it's impossible to have a router route ports on the network if I access it from the lan
2008-03-07 11:17 < noclip> wtf?
2008-03-07 11:17 < zocky> it doesn't work for port 80 on the crappy router they sold me, so they tried to convince me that that's normal
2008-03-07 11:18 < NotACow> zocky: that doesn't make any sense
2008-03-07 11:18 < noclip> zocky: comcast?
2008-03-07 11:18 < zocky> noclip, no, i'm in slovenia
2008-03-07 11:18 < noclip> ah
2008-03-07 11:19 < zocky> NotACow, basically, their router can't tell if you're accessing its lan or wan IP, so it refuses to reroute port 80 if you're accessing it from the LAN cable, regardless of the IP you use
2008-03-07 11:19 < noclip> i'm about to rent a dedicated server and just vpn through it
2008-03-07 11:19 < noclip> this is really pissing me off
2008-03-07 11:20 < zocky> anyway, I screamed at that poor supportoid for half an hour after that
2008-03-07 11:20 < zocky> but I still had to connect another router to the network to get it to work properly
2008-03-07 11:21 < noclip> speaking of port 80
2008-03-07 11:21 < zocky> noclip, what's the largest bandwidth they sell?