freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-05 17:36 < Cyrius> oooh, a sad attempt at snark from NotACow. Film at 11
2008-03-05 17:36 < Cyrius> seriously, that was pretty bad
2008-03-05 17:37 * NotACow hits Cyrius with brown_cat_nap
2008-03-05 17:37 < Comets> O_O
2008-03-05 17:38 < NotACow> RUN! HIDE! THE KITTENS ARE ATTACKING!
2008-03-05 17:38 < NotACow> see, they already got saizai!
2008-03-05 17:38 < NotACow> you must run NOW or face CERTAIN DOOM!
2008-03-05 17:39 < Kyriaki> I just blinded myself with my cuecat, so I suppose the attack is now an all-out war.
2008-03-05 17:40 < peh> i can has barcode?
2008-03-05 17:40 < Demi> i need to create a revolution in lexicography
2008-03-05 17:40 < Demi> and come up with supercapital letters
2008-03-05 17:40 < Demi> letterforms that are so capitalized, they make regular capitalized letters look lower-case
2008-03-05 17:41 < peh> a capital idea
2008-03-05 17:42 < Demi> "A typical Fred Meyer store has job opportunities available on a weekly basis, depending on employees retiring, getting promoted, quitting, or being terminated." <- that's some astute information right thar
2008-03-05 17:43 < Luna-San> o.o That's quite a turnover.
2008-03-05 17:43 < Luna-San> Or is the store just that gargantuan?
2008-03-05 17:43 < Cyrius> minimum wage jobs have high turnover
2008-03-05 17:43 < Kyriaki> Wow, that's freaking amazing.
2008-03-05 17:43 < Demi> well, i think it means they post any job openings on a particular day each week
2008-03-05 17:44 < ggreer> don't all jobs have high turnover?
2008-03-05 17:44 < peh> try this, then: every 18th hour a new McDonald's opens up somewhere in the world
2008-03-05 17:44 < ggreer> GE has like 10% turnover every year
2008-03-05 17:44 < Demi> i don't think in means they actually have job openings every week
2008-03-05 17:44 < Cyrius> ggreer: I recall hearing that walmart is over 100% yearly turnover
2008-03-05 17:44 < ggreer> hah
2008-03-05 17:44 < Messedrocker> over 100%?
2008-03-05 17:45 < Demi> you know what are delicious? turnovers
2008-03-05 17:45 < gwern> yeah, I could believe more than 100%
2008-03-05 17:45 < Luna-San> It's only really bad when they start measuring turnover on a daily basis.
2008-03-05 17:45 < Cyrius> the number of people who leave and people who are hired to replace them is greater than their total number of employees
2008-03-05 17:46 < Demi> fred meyer is pretty awesome, i have to say
2008-03-05 17:46 < Demi> it reminds me of gemco, but a lot better
2008-03-05 17:46 < Cyrius> I almost remember gemco
2008-03-05 17:46 < Cyrius> had one here that closed when I was like 3
2008-03-05 17:47 < Cyrius> walmart bought its building
2008-03-05 17:48 < Demi> the one we used to go to became a target
2008-03-05 17:48 < Demi> you know who i hate? albertson's.
2008-03-05 17:49 < Cyrius> used to have one of those
2008-03-05 17:49 < Cyrius> wait, we might still
2008-03-05 17:49 < Cyrius> it's in a part of town I don't go to
2008-03-05 17:50 < Demi> albertson's for some reason seems really obnoxious with their membership program
2008-03-05 17:50 < Luna-San> Albertson's was the first store in these parts to implement those frequent buyer cards; toted them as a feather in their cap. They were also the first store in these parts to get away from those, once everybody was in on them; their ads even said, "Whose idea was this? Not ours!"
2008-03-05 17:52 < ggreer> albertsons kind of died in cali
2008-03-05 17:52 < ggreer> lucky's bought them out or something
2008-03-05 17:52 < Demi> other way around
2008-03-05 17:53 < ggreer> oh
2008-03-05 17:53 < ggreer> well they don't do the lame cards here anymore
2008-03-05 17:53 < ggreer> and all the albertsons turned into luckys
2008-03-05 17:53 < Demi> yeah, i noticed that at the sunnyvale lucky's, i don't know what's up with that
2008-03-05 17:53 < Demi> someone else bought them and reverted the brand? or something?
2008-03-05 17:54 < Demi> but i tried that at the albertson's up here (weren't you getting rid of the dumb cards?) and they had no idea
2008-03-05 17:54 < Demi> but those stores all used to be lucky's until they were bought by albertson's so i don't know what the deal is
2008-03-05 17:55 < Luna-San> Yeah, I think all the Lucky's around here turned into Albertson's. Wonder if they're doing it on some regional basis, depending on which brand polls better.
2008-03-05 17:56 < r0byn> Hi! I'm a real girl!
2008-03-05 17:56 < Rinn> Hi! So am I!
2008-03-05 17:56 < r0byn> Let's compare breasts!
2008-03-05 17:57 < Rinn> Okay!
2008-03-05 17:57 * Rinn giggle giggle
2008-03-05 17:57 < r0byn> ( o Y o )
2008-03-05 17:57 < r0byn> How are they?
2008-03-05 17:57 < compwhizii> sigh
2008-03-05 17:57 < compwhizii> shall I call the ops?
2008-03-05 17:57 < Rinn> They're incredibly textual!
2008-03-05 17:57 * r0byn rubs compwhizii with her boobs
2008-03-05 17:57 < compwhizii> no
2008-03-05 17:58 * r0byn rubs compwhizii with her boobs again
2008-03-05 17:58 < compwhizii> thats it...
2008-03-05 17:58 * r0byn flashes her dick
2008-03-05 17:58 < Demi> this one was in here before
2008-03-05 17:58 < compwhizii> !ops ^^^^
2008-03-05 17:58 < r0byn> I'm a shemale!!!
2008-03-05 17:58 < Rinn> I think I remember it.
2008-03-05 17:58 < compwhizii> !admin
2008-03-05 17:58 < kibble> compwhizii: ?
2008-03-05 17:58 < placebo_effect> yo
2008-03-05 17:58 < compwhizii> look up
2008-03-05 17:58 < Golbez> whoa
2008-03-05 17:58 < compwhizii> thank you
2008-03-05 17:59 < NotASpy> don't you like being rubbed with someone's boobs ?
2008-03-05 17:59 < compwhizii> I do
2008-03-05 17:59 < compwhizii> this is not the place :)
2008-03-05 17:59 < Golbez> boom goes the dynamite
2008-03-05 17:59 < compwhizii> no party
2008-03-05 18:00 < kibble> werdan7: now you know who is getting the grr in the other channel
2008-03-05 18:02 < Comets> grr
2008-03-05 18:02 < jasoncalacanis> quick question: why is there no mention of the Jimmy Wales stories of the past week on Jimmy Wales' page?
2008-03-05 18:03 < gwern> jasoncalacanis: fan boys
2008-03-05 18:03 < gwern> next question?
2008-03-05 18:03 < Luna-San> jasoncalacanis: It got edit warred over for a bit. Page is protected. I think it's mainly not there yet because nobody agreed on a wording.
2008-03-05 18:04 < Luna-San> Feel free to participate on the article's talk page.
2008-03-05 18:06 < jasoncalacanis> It's amazing that the story could be in every major paper and NOT on wikipedia. it really makes it look like Jimbo owns the editorial on Wikipedia--which i know is not the case.
2008-03-05 18:09 < NotASpy> it may come as a bit of a surprise, but we don't generally report on who a particular celebrity is fucking on any given day.
2008-03-05 18:09 < NotASpy> there probably will be some comment over some of the other allegations that have been raised, but likewise, we try not to add such allegations to an article until there's more firm evidence to support inclusion.
2008-03-05 18:10 < shimgray> *snort*
2008-03-05 18:10 < shimgray> our editors are running around in confusion, as usually happens when a story about us breaks
2008-03-05 18:11 < NotASpy> they run around in confusion even without a story on Wikimedia to upset them.
2008-03-05 18:15 < Golbez> http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/5/131156/5021/187/469677 lovely
2008-03-05 18:15 < L33t-Geek> How long do I have to wait for a Suspected Sockpuppet case to finish, it seems someone accused me of being one so I am woundering how long I will have to wait for this to finish up
2008-03-05 18:16 < jasoncalacanis> .... and.... the next charge is... hiring your lover: http://valleywag.com/362882/charge-wikipedia-flew-wales-girlfriend-on-donors-dime
2008-03-05 18:17 < Golbez> oh dear.
2008-03-05 18:17 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- sorry, I don't know the process, how long as it been going on?
2008-03-05 18:17 < L33t-Geek> Just started
2008-03-05 18:18 < L33t-Geek> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/71.217.206.152
2008-03-05 18:18 < NotASpy> Golbez: at least they attributed the photo (sort of).
2008-03-05 18:19 < Golbez> am I a pig if I say Jimbo has good taste
2008-03-05 18:20 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- it takes longer than two hours. =p
2008-03-05 18:20 < L33t-Geek> i figured that much but how long
2008-03-05 18:20 < Cyrius> Golbez: no, you're just dumb, because good taste would preclude insanity
2008-03-05 18:20 < Golbez> L33t-Geek- til an admin sees it and either makes a judgment or asks more questions or something.
2008-03-05 18:20 < Golbez> i never touch SSP so I don't feel qualified
2008-03-05 18:21 < Golbez> just go about your editing business and ignore it until it pings on your watchlist
2008-03-05 18:21 < Golbez> lol at dinosaur adventure land
2008-03-05 18:23 < Golbez> Hovind's theory is amazing in its detail.
2008-03-05 18:24 < Golbez> ooh a chick tract!
2008-03-05 18:26 < Golbez> this is hilariously bad
2008-03-05 18:26 < Demi> Golbez - what are you talking about?
2008-03-05 18:26 < Golbez> http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/5002/5002_01.asp#dinosaur
2008-03-05 18:27 < Demi> Cyrius - i think Golbez was talking about this other woman, not marsden, if that's what you mean
2008-03-05 18:27 < Demi> unless this other woman is insane as well
2008-03-05 18:27 < Golbez> L33t-Geek was accused of sockpuppety for editing [[Kent Hovind]], so I looked it up, and he has a hilariously bad theory on the young earth
2008-03-05 18:27 < Golbez> and then here's a chick tract based on that theory
2008-03-05 18:27 < Cyrius> other woman? I'm behind
2008-03-05 18:27 < Golbez> Cyrius- http://valleywag.com/362882/charge-wikipedia-flew-wales-girlfriend-on-donors-dime
2008-03-05 18:28 < kim_bruning> evolution or jesus?
2008-03-05 18:28 < kim_bruning> see, this chick fellow is the reason I stay out of church
2008-03-05 18:28 < kim_bruning> well, not him specifically, but people with that kind of attitude
2008-03-05 18:28 < Golbez> kim_bruning- MY PROFESSORS LIED TO ME
2008-03-05 18:28 < kim_bruning> "thou shalt not bear false witness"
2008-03-05 18:29 < kim_bruning> Golbez, Well in my case, genetic databases would have had to have lied to me
2008-03-05 18:29 < kim_bruning> I don't even know if genes can lie
2008-03-05 18:29 < kim_bruning> :-P
2008-03-05 18:29 < Demi> i've always wondered what gopher wood was
2008-03-05 18:29 < kim_bruning> Demi, and?
2008-03-05 18:29 < Demi> and i still wonder
2008-03-05 18:29 < kim_bruning> Demi, no wiki-article?
2008-03-05 18:29 < Golbez> Gopher wood or gopherwood is a term used once in the Bible, for the substance whose identity is unknown from which Noah's ark was built.
2008-03-05 18:30 < Golbez> via [[Gopher wood]]
2008-03-05 18:30 < Demi> tim powers probably knows what it is
2008-03-05 18:30 < Golbez> i prefer it to be wood made out of gophers
2008-03-05 18:30 < Demi> i got into a nasty online fight over the XTC song Dear God
2008-03-05 18:30 < ST47> >.>
2008-03-05 18:30 < Demi> regarding religion and so forth
2008-03-05 18:31 < Golbez> rofl what
2008-03-05 18:31 < Golbez> According to [former Novell chief scientist Jeff] Merkey, in 2006, Wales told him that in exchange for a substantial donation, Wales could use his influence to make Merkey's article more agreeable. Merkey made a $5,000 donation and hinted at the possibility of something much larger in the future.
2008-03-05 18:31 < kim_bruning> Golbez, I have actually encountered life sciences professors who were creationists
2008-03-05 18:31 < Golbez> oh jeff merkey, i've missed you
2008-03-05 18:31 < kim_bruning> Golbez, wow
2008-03-05 18:32 < Golbez> http://valleywag.com/364359/wales-accused-of-trading-edits-for-donations
2008-03-05 18:32 < kim_bruning> now we know the level of quality here
2008-03-05 18:32 < Golbez> The world at large will see this as "Novell's chief scientist!" We see it as "Jeffrey Merkey!"
2008-03-05 18:32 < Demi> i should get a job title like that
2008-03-05 18:32 < Demi> we had some wanker once with a similar job title
2008-03-05 18:33 < Golbez> That's almost the best possible thing that could have happened in all this Jimbo news - Merkey raising his hand with some hilarious new bit of info.
2008-03-05 18:33 < Golbez> all we're missing now is one of Jimbo's ex-girlfriends having an affair with Gregory Kohs and we're set
2008-03-05 18:33 < kim_bruning> Golbez, wow, the valleywag is REALLY bad. It even claims Elian slept with wales? Geeze
2008-03-05 18:33 < Demi> Golbez - that chick tract is good, but why is hitler doing the sermonizing?
2008-03-05 18:34 < Golbez> Demi- I noticed he had an evil look to him. But if you have accepted The Lord, then all sins are forgiven!
2008-03-05 18:34 < Golbez> kim_bruning- Yep.
2008-03-05 18:34 < Golbez> I don't know if it's true or not
2008-03-05 18:34 < kim_bruning> Golbez, I don't see that he would have had TIME
2008-03-05 18:34 < Golbez> lol
2008-03-05 18:35 < kim_bruning> Golbez, then again, I'm notoriously gullible
2008-03-05 18:35 < kim_bruning> but this would have had to have been at frankfurt
2008-03-05 18:35 < NotASpy> who do we know at Valley Wag that we've obviously pissed off ?
2008-03-05 18:35 < kim_bruning> and seriously, both elian and jimmy were totally totally overtaxed :-P
2008-03-05 18:35 < kim_bruning> And I do mean by WORK
2008-03-05 18:35 < kim_bruning> (before some wag decides to misquote me :-P )
2008-03-05 18:36 < Golbez> http://valleywag.com/364328/jimmy-wales-flees-facebook
2008-03-05 18:36 < Lucifer_Cat> wag...
2008-03-05 18:36 < Golbez> I like the one at the bottom of the list.
2008-03-05 18:36 < Golbez> "Jimmy left the group Rachel Marsden's GrandCentralPolitical.com" You think?
2008-03-05 18:36 < Luna-San> "Janet, it's evolution or Jesus. What's your choice?"
2008-03-05 18:36 * Demi titters
2008-03-05 18:37 < Golbez> Luna-San- I chose the third option, Ralph Nader.
2008-03-05 18:37 < Luna-San> heh
2008-03-05 18:37 < Demi> kim_bruning - valley wag is not implying that, danny is
2008-03-05 18:38 < Demi> or maybe it's anonymous commenters on danny's blog? i can't really tell
2008-03-05 18:39 < Golbez> "Florence Devouard, chair of the nonprofit, confronted Wales about this. "I don't make any money, and my wife needs a washing machine," Wales reportedly told her. Her reply, according to Wool: "A gold-plated washing machine?"" o snap
2008-03-05 18:39 < NotASpy> nobody is denying Danny's allegations, rather, there's more coming out, umm, in the wash.
2008-03-05 18:40 < Golbez> i wonder if the gold plating gets clothes cleaner
2008-03-05 18:40 < Demi> which one is jeff merkey?
2008-03-05 18:40 < Golbez> User:Gadugi
2008-03-05 18:40 < Doc_glasgow> Golbez: so you can sell them on e-bay?
2008-03-05 18:41 < Doc_glasgow> the clean clothes
2008-03-05 18:41 < Golbez> Doc_glasgow- You can only sell dirty clothes on ebay.
2008-03-05 18:41 < Golbez> At least when they are from a god-king.
2008-03-05 18:41 < Doc_glasgow> Maybe Rachel M has Mrs W's gold plated washing machine now
2008-03-05 18:41 < kim_bruning> Demi, WTF? DANNY!
2008-03-05 18:42 < kim_bruning> Demi, how low will that dude go?
2008-03-05 18:42 < Alkivar> oh hell this is just the tip of the iceberg
2008-03-05 18:42 < NotASpy> kim_bruning: as far as I can tell, not all of the reports are coming from Danny
2008-03-05 18:42 < Alkivar> i've had chats with danny over a year ago covering other stuff that would be a major embarassment to jimmy/brad patrick
2008-03-05 18:43 < Demi> kim_bruning - well like i said i'm not sure
2008-03-05 18:43 < Alkivar> i figure when danny speaks up about that stuff... then i'll be free to discuss it, til then it remains off the record
2008-03-05 18:43 < Demi> yeah, everoyone's very hand-wavingly vague and "boy, if you knew what i knew, trust me, zoinks!"
2008-03-05 18:44 < Alkivar> lets just say Brad Patrick lost the WMF a very hefty over a mil donation
2008-03-05 18:44 < Golbez> Nice.
2008-03-05 18:44 < Golbez> What was Brad's position? Legal?
2008-03-05 18:44 < Alkivar> because he decided to party with jimmy instead of meat the donor
2008-03-05 18:44 < Alkivar> err meet
2008-03-05 18:44 < Golbez> ...
2008-03-05 18:44 < Alkivar> yeah
2008-03-05 18:44 < Golbez> Freud would like a word with you.
2008-03-05 18:45 < Demi> kim_bruning - i can't really tell, i think it may have been edited. valleway says "former wikipedia insiders..." and there was earlier a link to danny's blog, but it seems like the post has been edited
2008-03-05 18:45 < Alkivar> he was head of the wmf at the time i believe
2008-03-05 18:45 < NotASpy> ah yes, acting CEO
2008-03-05 18:45 < Demi> there are "anonymous" commenters saying the thing about elian
2008-03-05 18:45 < Demi> so you can't really tell the provenance of that
2008-03-05 18:46 < kim_bruning> Alkivar, brad patrick is a major embarresment
2008-03-05 18:46 < kim_bruning> Alkivar, danny shouldn't be talking about his boss
2008-03-05 18:47 < NotASpy> kim_bruning: so you would prefer some of this stuff, which may or may not be true, is not disclosed, but kept quiet forever more ?
2008-03-05 18:48 < Demi> what's being "disclosed"?
2008-03-05 18:48 < Jutiphan> helloo
2008-03-05 18:48 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, it can be disclosed, just not by danny
2008-03-05 18:49 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, well it can be disclosed by danny too, of course
2008-03-05 18:49 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, he just shouldn't expect anyone to ever trust him ever again
2008-03-05 18:49 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, and then there's the question of how much truth there is to his statements
2008-03-05 18:50 < Doc_glasgow> kim_bruning: nevermind Giano is coming to Jimmy's rescue
2008-03-05 18:50 < NotASpy> well, as I say, nobody is denying what Danny or anybody else is saying, and Danny is intelligent enough to know the consequences of his actions.
2008-03-05 18:50 < kim_bruning> Doc_glasgow, amazing!
2008-03-05 18:51 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, I think he does
2008-03-05 18:51 < Demi> what is he "saying" then?
2008-03-05 18:51 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, Danny and Jimmy are fighting over power
2008-03-05 18:51 < Demi> the business with a $650 bottle of wine? a subway ticket?
2008-03-05 18:51 < Demi> whoop-de-fucking-doo
2008-03-05 18:51 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, I wonder if we'll have anyone actually hang out the dirty laundry on danny
2008-03-05 18:51 < Demi> that's kind of overshadowed by the insinuation without support (so far) that there's a lot more
2008-03-05 18:51 < Demi> so "disclose" it, or don't
2008-03-05 18:51 < Doc_glasgow> read the wikback threads. I think danny may be spinning things, but his accusations are well thought through, and I'd imagine watertight
2008-03-05 18:52 < Demi> kim_bruning - yeah, really
2008-03-05 18:52 < shimgray> kim_bruning: I think you could run a clothesline *from* Danny, but he's not really a very good drying rack.
2008-03-05 18:52 < shimgray> Oh, wait, metaphor.
2008-03-05 18:52 * shimgray goes back to the books
2008-03-05 18:52 < kim_bruning> Doc_glasgow, With danny? I expect anything
2008-03-05 18:52 < kim_bruning> shimgray, ROTFL :-P
2008-03-05 18:53 < TheWeasel> Back.
2008-03-05 18:53 < NotASpy> Demi: as I said the other day, none of these allegations are significant on their own, but when they're added up with other stuff, they could have a serious impact on the next fundraiser, and thus, on the Foundation as a whole.
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> what other stuff?
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> this is what i'm saying
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> if it's not a tempest in a teapot then PRODUCE IT
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> show me the land deal or whatever
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> i'm all set to be outraged but there's really nothing here
2008-03-05 18:54 < NotASpy> nothing to do with the Foundation, more the fact that people might not have as many dollars to donate this year, for a number of reasons.
2008-03-05 18:54 < Demi> except a lot of insinuation and nonspecific unlikability
2008-03-05 18:55 < Demi> NotASpy - oh, yes, well sure
2008-03-05 18:55 < bumm13> hiya Demi
2008-03-05 18:55 < Demi> from that perspective it would be best to reorganize the foundation under basically no one who has been involved with it before
2008-03-05 18:55 < Demi> it's been lacking professional management
2008-03-05 18:55 < Demi> hi bumm13
2008-03-05 18:55 < Doc_glasgow> I don't believe the BBC
2008-03-05 18:56 < kim_bruning> Demi, Sue Gardner and Erik Moeller are professional
2008-03-05 18:56 < NotASpy> there's enough going on now to make people think well, there's lots of shit flying about, and I don't really have $20 spare anyway, I won't bother donating at the moment.
2008-03-05 18:56 < kim_bruning> Demi, they just got appointed a short while ago. Give them time
2008-03-05 18:56 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, yes, dannys actions are very destructive to the foundation
2008-03-05 18:56 < Demi> NotASpy - right, there is not shortage of worthy causes
2008-03-05 18:57 < NotASpy> Demi: indeed, things like medical insurance for a lot of people in America, I would imagine.
2008-03-05 18:57 < Demi> i'm not sure how you donate to that
2008-03-05 18:58 < Demi> unless to a lobbying group
2008-03-05 18:58 < NotASpy> kim_bruning: it's not just Danny though. Nobody is blameless in this whole debacle.
2008-03-05 18:59 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, several folks are keeping their noses conspicuously clean, you might notice
2008-03-05 18:59 < kim_bruning> NotASpy, you think I could beat jimbo in a board election now? ;-)
2008-03-05 18:59 * kim_bruning ducks and hides
2008-03-05 18:59 < NotASpy> Demi: More that people might be shorter of cash this year and have different spending priorities.
2008-03-05 19:00 * wimt pokes people to fix their routers or connect on port 8001
2008-03-05 19:01 * Warpath is ob Port 6666 O_O
2008-03-05 19:01 < Warpath> on*
2008-03-05 19:01 < Warpath> no comments :p
2008-03-05 19:13 < Golbfoo> so
2008-03-05 19:13 < Golbfoo> any comments on woot.com's deal of the day? :>
2008-03-05 19:14 < Messedrocker> is it jimmy's dirty laundry?
2008-03-05 19:14 < Messedrocker> TiVo HD DVR
2008-03-05 19:14 < Messedrocker> already have one
2008-03-05 19:15 < Demi> a tivo would just feel like another to-do list to me
2008-03-05 19:18 < bumm13> apparently this is the title of a real movie:
2008-03-05 19:18 < bumm13> "Harold & Kumar Escape from Guantanamo Bay"
2008-03-05 19:19 < Messedrocker> but neither of them are arabs
2008-03-05 19:20 < Luna-San> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_names#Justjihad <-- comments?
2008-03-05 19:20 < NotACow> Luna-San: he should capitalize both J's. more aesthetic that way.
2008-03-05 19:20 < TheWeasel> Is there serious debate?
2008-03-05 19:21 < Demi> is it any more offensive than CoolCrusade or PrettyPogrom?
2008-03-05 19:21 < TheWeasel> if you oppose such names you'll be a "politically correct killjoy", so better not
2008-03-05 19:21 < Demi> bumm13 - yes, it is
2008-03-05 19:21 < TheWeasel> Less offensive than b), more offensive than a)
2008-03-05 19:21 < bumm13> Demi - :(
2008-03-05 19:21 < bumm13> hiya Weasel
2008-03-05 19:21 < TheWeasel> hey
2008-03-05 19:22 < Demi> "Awesomefensive" would be subtler
2008-03-05 19:22 < NotACow> either he's being silly, or you've already been trolled.
2008-03-05 19:22 < TheWeasel> ExCellentEthnicCleansing
2008-03-05 19:23 < TheWeasel> there are only shit discussions of Koeppen climate classifications
2008-03-05 19:23 < TheWeasel> online
2008-03-05 19:23 < TheWeasel> it's depressing
2008-03-05 19:24 < Demi> i've found some other content online
2008-03-05 19:24 < Demi> you might need to widen your search
2008-03-05 19:24 < TheWeasel> they're either superficial or from 1994
2008-03-05 19:24 < Demi> or are you saying "of the online discussions of Koeppen climate observations, they are all shit"
2008-03-05 19:24 < bumm13> or do what I do and read about a guy's trip to a redemption-game arcade at a N.J. city's boardwalk :)
2008-03-05 19:25 < TheWeasel> I will not buy those climate profiles, they are scratched.
2008-03-05 19:25 < bumm13> "So enormous is the gambling sickness in my family that, one summer, we actually racked up enough points for me to take home a Super Nintendo."
2008-03-05 19:25 < bumm13> "The Super Nintendo cost a little over a hundred bucks in stores at the time, but being 150,000 points and all, I think we spent around forty-thousand dollars on it."
2008-03-05 19:26 < TheWeasel> we have random instances like [[Humid continental climate]] but it doesn't even pretend to be anything but unsorted and random
2008-03-05 19:26 < Demi> that's as good a deal as PBS membership prizes!
2008-03-05 19:26 < bumm13> \o/
2008-03-05 19:26 < Demi> send in $1000, you get a mug
2008-03-05 19:26 < bumm13> heh
2008-03-05 19:26 < TheWeasel> bumm13: Sue Nintendo for reimbursing you!
2008-03-05 19:27 < TheWeasel> Humid continental (Dfa, Dwa, Dfb, Dwb) is one link
2008-03-05 19:27 < TheWeasel> that's shoddy
2008-03-05 19:27 < TheWeasel> all of those combos need an article
2008-03-05 19:27 < TheWeasel> but I can't find sources
2008-03-05 19:28 * Demi likes "Marine West Coast"
2008-03-05 19:28 < TheWeasel> West Marine Corps
2008-03-05 19:28 * bumm13 always wanted to be a Technetium Level Donor
2008-03-05 19:29 < Demi> west marine is one of those stores i love, but which i can't actually justify spending money in (not that that's stopped me)
2008-03-05 19:29 * Lucifer_Cat always wanted to bumm out on irc
2008-03-05 19:29 < TheWeasel> My climate hasn't got an article!
2008-03-05 19:29 < TheWeasel> This is a sham!
2008-03-05 19:30 < TheWeasel> I think it's Dfb though
2008-03-05 19:31 < TheWeasel> which don't even get their own discussion in the main article itself
2008-03-05 19:31 < TheWeasel> (Dfb, Dwb and Dsb)
2008-03-05 19:31 < TheWeasel> maybe the classification is obsolete, maybe people are lazy
2008-03-05 19:31 < Demi> it's kind of funny that the entire u.s. west coast is one climate
2008-03-05 19:32 < Demi> since it, you know, isn't
2008-03-05 19:32 < TheWeasel> Well, pretty much in the mediterranean zone
2008-03-05 19:33 < TheWeasel> but the article is an apologetic for that reading
2008-03-05 19:33 < Demi> well, it's obviously crap
2008-03-05 19:33 < bumm13> neither western Washington nor most of western Oregon is Mediterranean climate
2008-03-05 19:33 < TheWeasel> they say Seattle is a kind of Washington Riviera
2008-03-05 19:33 < Demi> northern california's coast hasthe same climate as new zealand
2008-03-05 19:33 < bumm13> (southern Oregon is "kind of western", I suppose)
2008-03-05 19:34 < bumm13> indeed
2008-03-05 19:34 < Demi> the mediterranean climate starts at the central coast
2008-03-05 19:34 < Demi> it's temperate
2008-03-05 19:34 < bumm13> actually, S. Oregon has a continental climate basically
2008-03-05 19:34 < Messedrocker> "IEEE" should be pronounced like a kung fu shriek
2008-03-05 19:34 < bumm13> (and much of extreme northern Calif.)
2008-03-05 19:34 < Messedrocker> "ieeeeee!!"
2008-03-05 19:34 < Demi> i'm going to get outrageously overreactingly upset over this climate thing
2008-03-05 19:34 < TheWeasel> Messedrocker: Since it kicks people's asses...
2008-03-05 19:34 < Demi> bumm13 - the little island pattern they have there seems about right
2008-03-05 19:35 * bumm13 is in a silly mild marine climate
2008-03-05 19:35 * TheWeasel lives in an England-type climate that still pretends to be continental
2008-03-05 19:36 < TheWeasel> this winter was un-Dfb
2008-03-05 19:37 < bumm13> haha "It's kinda weird how much more often you'll run into Ms. Pac-Man than her tangibly more famous husband; it's like the last vestige of the Women's Movement."
2008-03-05 19:37 < NotACow> moooch
2008-03-05 19:37 < FastLizard4> Alright people
2008-03-05 19:37 < FastLizard4> How many netsplits today?
2008-03-05 19:38 < Messedrocker> mooooooooooooooooof
2008-03-05 19:38 < Messedrocker> NotACow, i don't like the new wide format
2008-03-05 19:39 < NotACow> Messedrocker: why not?
2008-03-05 19:39 < NotACow> Messedrocker: you know i'm a chubby chaser :)
2008-03-05 19:41 < TheWeasel> come on baby/let's do the twist
2008-03-05 19:41 < NotACow> that's chubby checker
2008-03-05 19:41 < NotACow> good song, though
2008-03-05 19:41 < TheWeasel> Oh *slapsforehead
2008-03-05 19:41 < TheWeasel> Stupid me
2008-03-05 19:41 < TheWeasel> :-P
2008-03-05 19:41 < TheWeasel> I thought you wrote it.
2008-03-05 19:42 < NotACow> nah, i can't write.
2008-03-05 19:42 < NotACow> you can tell that just by looking at my blog
2008-03-05 19:42 < TheWeasel> One Chubby Checker/there's only one Chubby Checker/one Chubby Cheeeeecker...
2008-03-05 19:42 < TheWeasel> *to the tune of Guantanamera
2008-03-05 19:42 < Messedrocker> notacow writes just fine
2008-03-05 20:03 < Beto29> any news about wikimania?
2008-03-05 20:04 < Demi> i guess jimbo is canceling his how to get girls seminar
2008-03-05 20:05 < scorchsaber> "wikimania" is the whole thing about the founder of wikipedia, or...?
2008-03-05 20:05 < Messedrocker> lol
2008-03-05 20:06 < ggreer> Demi: I think ask.com is taking some pointers from jimbo. they're focusing on the mid-30's female market
2008-03-05 20:07 < lol> Messedrocker: BLEGH
2008-03-05 20:07 * Demi shops at that market
2008-03-05 20:14 < bumm13> hiya ggreer
2008-03-05 20:14 < ggreer> yo
2008-03-05 20:14 < bumm13> Demi: I actually got groceries yesterday (zomg productive!)
2008-03-05 20:15 < Alkivar> is there a piece of software that will let you compare two folders and show only the differences between the files the contain?
2008-03-05 20:15 < Alkivar> fc is too clunky to do it with this many files
2008-03-05 20:16 < ggreer> umm... diff -u?
2008-03-05 20:16 < Alkivar> windows box
2008-03-05 20:16 < ggreer> oh
2008-03-05 20:16 < ggreer> nm
2008-03-05 20:16 < Alkivar> sorry should have mentioned that first :)
2008-03-05 20:17 < bumm13> ggreer: weather looks pleasant in the South Bay :)
2008-03-05 20:21 < OverlordQ> use windows version of diff?
2008-03-05 20:26 < Messedrocker> do you have to register for a FEIN if you hire contractors?
2008-03-05 20:26 < TheWeasel> Groceries are groce.
2008-03-05 20:26 < Messedrocker> and how long can you push the "they're a contractor" story before the IRS disagrees and calls them employees?
2008-03-05 20:28 < Luna-San> To the first, not that I know of, but I've actually been on that side of things.
2008-03-05 20:28 < Messedrocker> as in, you've hired contractors? or you've been hired as a contractor?
2008-03-05 20:28 < Luna-San> To the second, not a clue. Probably addressed someplace. Aren't some of the international WMF people permanently kept on as contractors? Like Tim or such?
2008-03-05 20:29 < Luna-San> Neither. :< I've just been around other people who've hired em, and they didn't mention anything about it.
2008-03-05 20:29 < TheWeasel> "Kenny Chesney is the deepest poet ever" (not an actual quote, just a sentiment I'm coming across)
2008-03-05 20:29 < Messedrocker> "permanent contractor" sounds dubious
2008-03-05 20:30 < Messedrocker> sounds like a means of dodging taxes
2008-03-05 20:30 < Luna-San> As I understand, it saves a lot of legal complications over international hires.
2008-03-05 20:30 < Luna-San> Or is intended to, at least.
2008-03-05 20:30 < Alkivar> IRS will never hire them as employees
2008-03-05 20:30 < ggreer> bumm13: dude, it's freaking awesome here
2008-03-05 20:30 < Messedrocker> but what if your indefinite contractors are domestic?
2008-03-05 20:30 < Alkivar> contractors dont need to be given benefits
2008-03-05 20:30 < ggreer> 65 and sunny for as long as people can forecast
2008-03-05 20:31 < Alkivar> contractors dont need to be paid overtime
2008-03-05 20:31 < Messedrocker> Alkivar, do you know the question to "how long can one push the they're-a-contractor story"?
2008-03-05 20:31 < Alkivar> its the same bullshit EA sports tried to pull on its software developers
2008-03-05 20:31 < ggreer> ea tried to not give benefits to developers?
2008-03-05 20:31 < Alkivar> Messedrocker: when its a govt agency... forever
2008-03-05 20:31 < ggreer> how can you get away with that in this economy?
2008-03-05 20:32 < Alkivar> ggreer: that was about 3 years ago
2008-03-05 20:32 < ggreer> anyone who's decent at coding can get a good job that isn't at a game sweatshop
2008-03-05 20:32 < ggreer> oh
2008-03-05 20:32 < Alkivar> it made slashdot
2008-03-05 20:32 < TheWeasel> but what is the content of a contract, if not a wage agreement?
2008-03-05 20:33 < ggreer> TheWeasel: contractors don't get benefits
2008-03-05 20:33 < TheWeasel> hm
2008-03-05 20:33 < Messedrocker> Alkivar, what about a sole proprietorship that does business in one state?
2008-03-05 20:33 < ggreer> benefits cost a lot
2008-03-05 20:33 < TheWeasel> I'll have to look it up
2008-03-05 20:33 < Alkivar> a contract is a prenegotiated fee system... a wage agreement is a constantly renegotiable deal
2008-03-05 20:33 < ggreer> oh yeah, and contractors usually can't quit right away
2008-03-05 20:33 < TheWeasel> oh, fair enough
2008-03-05 20:33 < Alkivar> one of the benefits of being a contractor is you cant be "fired" exactly...
2008-03-05 20:34 < Scott5114> What do you do about a user who keeps making edits against the MOS
2008-03-05 20:34 < ggreer> also contractors have about zero possibility for advancement in a company
2008-03-05 20:34 < TheWeasel> a kind of chargé d'affaires
2008-03-05 20:34 < Scott5114> specifically editing to bring an article out of compliance?
2008-03-05 20:34 < Messedrocker> exactly, alkivar. they can just have their contract terminated :P
2008-03-05 20:34 < Daniel_Bush> Why doesn't Wales' biography mention the latest Wikipedia happenings
2008-03-05 20:34 < Alkivar> they have to pay you the entire length of the contract
2008-03-05 20:34 < Messedrocker> Daniel_Bush, because it's based around unencyclopedic facts and hearsay?
2008-03-05 20:34 < Alkivar> when they terminate the contract
2008-03-05 20:34 < Daniel_Bush> The talk page tells someone that brought it up using a USA Today article as a reference to "look at the other sections"
2008-03-05 20:34 < Alkivar> otherwise they can be sued for breech
2008-03-05 20:34 < Daniel_Bush> and now there's a Washington Post article
2008-03-05 20:35 < TheWeasel> Why do people make such contracts?
2008-03-05 20:35 < Daniel_Bush> But Washington Post has no credibility, right
2008-03-05 20:35 < Alkivar> in most states a wage based employee is "at-will" hired... so they can be fired and not have a leg to stand on when demanding severance or back pay etc...
2008-03-05 20:35 < bumm13> probably not
2008-03-05 20:35 < NotACow> beep
2008-03-05 20:35 < NotACow> eep
2008-03-05 20:35 < Daniel_Bush> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/04/AR2008030401869.html
2008-03-05 20:35 < NotACow> ep
2008-03-05 20:35 < NotACow> p
2008-03-05 20:36 < Daniel_Bush> Wool wrote that Wales had asked the foundation to reimburse him for costly items like a $1,300 dinner for four at a Florida steakhouse. Wool alleged that at one point Wales was short on receipts for $30,000 in expenses before settling the matter with the foundation's lawyer and paying the organization $7,000. Wool added that Wales' foundation credit card was taken away in 2006.
2008-03-05 20:36 < Daniel_Bush> Hm.
2008-03-05 20:36 < ggreer> Alkivar: don't most employees sign contracts that say they get x dollars if they're fired and it's not for incompetence?
2008-03-05 20:36 < ggreer> I mean, besides crappy jobs
2008-03-05 20:36 < Alkivar> ggreer: not always... every contract is different
2008-03-05 20:37 < ggreer> the only deceptive things I've had to watch out for is making sure to get stuff in writing
2008-03-05 20:37 < Alkivar> my current employment contract for example... even if i am fired for negligence... they are still required to pay me for 6 months
2008-03-05 20:37 < Alkivar> even if i only worked for 2 weeks
2008-03-05 20:37 < ggreer> 6 months? that's a hell of a severance package
2008-03-05 20:38 < TheWeasel> hah
2008-03-05 20:38 < Alkivar> its a 6 month contract
2008-03-05 20:38 * TheWeasel found the German equivalent
2008-03-05 20:38 < ggreer> oh, durr
2008-03-05 20:38 < Alkivar> i only have gaurenteed work for 6 months
2008-03-05 20:38 * TheWeasel inserts a de. wikilink
2008-03-05 20:38 < ggreer> Alkivar: of course if they do terminate the contract early, they're basically saying you're worse than useless
2008-03-05 20:38 < Alkivar> at the end of 6 months they have the option to not renew... OR hire me salaried
2008-03-05 20:38 < Messedrocker> Alkivar, to what limit can you push the "all the people i am paying are contractors" story?
2008-03-05 20:38 < Alkivar> Messedrocker: i dont really know
2008-03-05 20:39 < NotACow> Messedrocker: there is a 14-part test
2008-03-05 20:39 < NotACow> Messedrocker: each factor is weighed and if the preponderance of the factors suggest employee, then you have employees.
2008-03-05 20:40 < Alkivar> Karynn: is that a federal level test?
2008-03-05 20:40 < Alkivar> or is that on a state per state basis?
2008-03-05 20:40 < TheWeasel> heh, like people saying they have "employees" rather than "workers"
2008-03-05 20:40 < NotACow> ah, wait, 20 factor test
2008-03-05 20:40 < NotACow> Alkivar: it's an IRS test.
2008-03-05 20:40 < NotACow> http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/appx_d_irs_ic_test.html
2008-03-05 20:41 < ggreer> wtf do workers at H&R block do for the rest of the year?
2008-03-05 20:41 < NotACow> that's the current test
2008-03-05 20:41 < NotACow> ggreer: something other than prepare tax returns.
2008-03-05 20:41 < NotACow> ggreer: they're seasonal employees, and many of them are actually contractors
2008-03-05 20:41 < Alkivar> it has recently attempted to simplify and refine the test, consolidating the twenty factors into eleven main tests
2008-03-05 20:41 < Alkivar> looks like its down to 11
2008-03-05 20:41 < Alkivar> heh
2008-03-05 20:41 < Messedrocker> what if the president maintained a blog
2008-03-05 20:41 < NotACow> Alkivar: the 14 part test is for copyright, which is a slightly different test
2008-03-05 20:42 < NotACow> Alkivar: although many of the factors are the same
2008-03-05 20:42 < Alkivar> here's the link to the 20 part: http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/appx_e_twc_ic_test.html
2008-03-05 20:42 * TheWeasel likes the tests to differentiate private purchase from professional purchase
2008-03-05 20:42 < TheWeasel> people on ebay cross that line lots of times
2008-03-05 20:42 < TheWeasel> the courts are having hell of a time
2008-03-05 20:43 < Alkivar> TheWeasel: i cross that line quite frequently
2008-03-05 20:43 < Daniel_Bush> Someone got their image removed by OrphanBot that they say they owned the rights to, but failed to provide copyright information for, and left, saying "Wikipedia is a joke."
2008-03-05 20:43 < Alkivar> record purchasing for example
2008-03-05 20:43 < TheWeasel> You can sell things without warranty when you're a private person
2008-03-05 20:43 < NotACow> Alkivar: that's the link i just offered :)
2008-03-05 20:43 < Alkivar> since i earn income as a dj... are my records a business expense? or are they personal?
2008-03-05 20:43 < TheWeasel> so people always claim they are
2008-03-05 20:43 < TheWeasel> (over here)
2008-03-05 20:43 < NotACow> Alkivar: you could probably expense them
2008-03-05 20:43 < Alkivar> karynn: you linked to appendix d... i linked to appendix e
2008-03-05 20:43 < TheWeasel> no matter how businesslike their activity
2008-03-05 20:44 < NotACow> Alkivar: when i was a tech contractor, i would buy o'reilly books and expense them
2008-03-05 20:44 < NotACow> Alkivar: ah
2008-03-05 20:44 < Messedrocker> "Independent contractors are more likely to have unreimbursed expenses than are employees."
2008-03-05 20:44 < Messedrocker> er?
2008-03-05 20:44 < Messedrocker> i thought contractors generally got reimbursed for expenses
2008-03-05 20:44 < NotACow> Messedrocker: an IC is expected to charge a fee sufficient to cover their expenses
2008-03-05 20:45 < Alkivar> TheWeasel: the really interesting thing will be when courts decide to rethink the concept of sales "AS-IS"
2008-03-05 20:45 < TheWeasel> "generally" means "if you're lucky"
2008-03-05 20:45 < ggreer> Alkivar: hmm?
2008-03-05 20:45 < ggreer> what do you mean by that?
2008-03-05 20:45 < NotACow> Messedrocker: as an IC i can charge for fees directly incurred, but i cannot (for example) charge a fee for tax prep
2008-03-05 20:45 < TheWeasel> when you're an employee your purchases benefit the company in the long term
2008-03-05 20:45 < NotACow> Messedrocker: or at least i'm unlikely to
2008-03-05 20:45 < Alkivar> that allows private persons to basically sell broken machines as working and the purchaser has no fallback if it is broken
2008-03-05 20:46 < Alkivar> ggreer: say i'm selling you a dvd player
2008-03-05 20:46 < Alkivar> i claim it works... or worked when i last tested it 6 months ago (i may be lying)
2008-03-05 20:46 < NotACow> Alkivar: if you affirmatively warrant that it's working, the sale may be rescindable if it's not
2008-03-05 20:46 < Alkivar> i claim sale is "AS IS" in auction
2008-03-05 20:46 < TheWeasel> yea... you can "sell it as seen"
2008-03-05 20:46 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-03-05 20:47 < Alkivar> in several states of the US you have no legal claim on seller if item is non functional
2008-03-05 20:47 < ggreer> that sucks
2008-03-05 20:47 < NotACow> but if you don't offer an affirmative warranty, and you are a private person, then the implied warranties are pretty limited
2008-03-05 20:47 < NotACow> if i sell you what appears to be a DVD player, but it's actually a plastic box full of oatmeal, you probably have a claim
2008-03-05 20:47 < Alkivar> right... thats fraud... theres consumer protection laws that cover non delivery
2008-03-05 20:47 < Messedrocker> if a hired person is for the most part on their own regarding how to do the job, would they be considered an IC?
2008-03-05 20:47 < Luna-San> What if it's full of kittens, instead?
2008-03-05 20:48 < TheWeasel> You can in some cases here if the seller is private and explicitly says he won't guarantee for anything
2008-03-05 20:48 < NotACow> Alkivar: it's actually a breach of the warranty of fitness.
2008-03-05 20:48 < TheWeasel> of course you can hold him to the things he does claim
2008-03-05 20:48 < NotACow> Alkivar: which applies even in private sales
2008-03-05 20:48 < TheWeasel> and then you have a claim to either repair or provision of a functional item
2008-03-05 20:48 < TheWeasel> (you choose)
2008-03-05 20:48 < TheWeasel> so sayeth the EU directive
2008-03-05 20:49 < Alkivar> IF ( order item && item arrives == YAY)
2008-03-05 20:49 < Alkivar> IF ( order item && item does not arrive == BOO and legally covered)
2008-03-05 20:49 < TheWeasel> well, in Germany the provider must get a chance to repair first, unless it's not ... oh it's complicated.
2008-03-05 20:49 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-05 20:49 < NotACow> Alkivar: but the warranty of merchantability only applies to merchant sales.
2008-03-05 20:49 < TheWeasel> and in academic cases, people always get into freak accidents during delivery
2008-03-05 20:50 < Alkivar> IF ( order item && item arrives but is non functional == BOO and not legally covered everywhere)
2008-03-05 20:50 < TheWeasel> well yea, German states have no jurisdiction over civil law
2008-03-05 20:50 < TheWeasel> so it's the same everywhere in Germany
2008-03-05 20:50 < TheWeasel> EXCEPT IN NEBRAAAAAAAASKA
2008-03-05 20:50 < Alkivar> and Michigan
2008-03-05 20:51 < Alkivar> and Virginia
2008-03-05 20:51 < TheWeasel> And where prohibited by law.
2008-03-05 20:51 < Alkivar> offer not valid in New York either
2008-03-05 20:52 < Alkivar> anyone see Howard Dean on BBC America News last night
2008-03-05 20:52 < Alkivar> he's become a serious asshole since taking over as dnc chair
2008-03-05 20:52 < NotACow> "Instead of office chair, package contained bobcat. Would not buy again."
2008-03-05 20:53 < Alkivar> like i didnt like him before... now i want someone to shoot the guy
2008-03-05 20:53 < Apple> completely off topic, but meh
2008-03-05 20:53 < Alkivar> Karynn: surprising how often XKCD is relevant
2008-03-05 20:53 < Apple> on the off chance that someone here is really uber with computers beyond what I know, http://forum.onmac.net/showthread.php?p=13140
2008-03-05 20:53 < NotACow> Alkivar: isn't it? :)
2008-03-05 20:54 < TheWeasel> NotACow: In German law, a bobcat is a faulty office chair that has to be repaired.
2008-03-05 20:54 < NotACow> http://xkcd.com/325/
2008-03-05 20:54 < NotACow> TheWeasel: i challenge you to repair a bobcat.
2008-03-05 20:54 < TheWeasel> ...until it becomes an office chair
2008-03-05 20:55 < TheWeasel> hehe
2008-03-05 20:55 < NotACow> TheWeasel: i'm sure there's a cruelty-to-animals regulation that applies here
2008-03-05 20:56 < Alkivar> oh come on... shoot the bobcat... stuff the fucker... theres your office chair
2008-03-05 20:56 < TheWeasel> I think an office-chair shaped ex-bobcat is not what one should aim for
2008-03-05 20:56 < TheWeasel> Precisely.
2008-03-05 21:00 < TheWeasel> 439 III : "The seller may refuse the chosen form of supplementary performance if it is only feasible under disproportionate costs.
2008-03-05 21:00 < TheWeasel> Well... not costs exactly
2008-03-05 21:00 < TheWeasel> haha
2008-03-05 21:00 < TheWeasel> so make me a bobcat chair already!
2008-03-05 21:01 < bumm13> miaow!
2008-03-05 21:02 < bumm13> bobcats.....not cute kitties :x
2008-03-05 21:03 < Messedrocker> hehehe
2008-03-05 21:03 < Messedrocker> reverse-vitiligo
2008-03-05 21:03 < NotACow> meep
2008-03-05 21:04 < NotACow> bobcat kitties
2008-03-05 21:10 < TheWeasel> oh well, the impossible is not owed.
2008-03-05 21:10 < Messedrocker> let's turn on the mypod and get on ispace!
2008-03-05 21:11 < TheWeasel> Eipott!
2008-03-05 21:11 < TheWeasel> a "funny" pun on iPod, meaning eggcup
2008-03-05 21:15 < TroubleClef> Smash Bros. Brawl in half a week!
2008-03-05 21:15 < Messedrocker> that excites me
2008-03-05 21:16 * TheWeasel knocks Luigi clean
2008-03-05 21:19 < TheWeasel> heh, pin-ups for jurists
2008-03-05 21:19 < TheWeasel> big jpgs of the two chambers of the constitutional court
2008-03-05 21:30 < Messedrocker> the constitutional court?
2008-03-05 21:31 < Messedrocker> is that the german high court?
2008-03-05 21:31 < gwern> 'Gygax always struck me as a tremendously sinister name: no mortal name, this. This was the sort of name one earned in the service of horned devils and more primordial shapes of evil, a boon for the loyal servant, placed like a black crown on the bowed head.'
2008-03-05 21:31 < TheWeasel> it's the *constitutional court*
2008-03-05 21:31 < TheWeasel> non-constitutional questions are solved elsewhere
2008-03-05 21:31 < gwern> '....These books were soon discovered, and blamed for everything from recent colds to the dissolution of my parents' marriage. I took the wrong lesson, I'm afraid: I didn't learn to fear them. What I learned was that books, some books, were *swollen* with power - and this power projected into the physical realm. Some books contain the machinery required to create and sustain universes. '
2008-03-05 21:31 < TheWeasel> its decisions have the power of laws though
2008-03-05 21:32 < Messedrocker> well the US's highest court functions as a constitutional court
2008-03-05 21:32 < Messedrocker> since that's what the supreme court bases its decisions on
2008-03-05 21:32 < TheWeasel> yea, it works somewhat differently though, since it also hears selected cases of simple law
2008-03-05 21:33 < TheWeasel> that is dealt with somewhere else here
2008-03-05 21:33 < TheWeasel> (or so I think)
2008-03-05 21:33 < TheWeasel> correct me if it doesn't
2008-03-05 21:33 < TheWeasel> oh, I might be wrong
2008-03-05 21:33 < TheWeasel> I dunno
2008-03-05 21:34 < TheWeasel> either way, it's always stacked 4-4 politically
2008-03-05 21:34 < Messedrocker> 4 of one party, 4 of another?
2008-03-05 21:34 < Messedrocker> and since there are an even amount of judges, who casts the tie-breaking vote?
2008-03-05 21:34 < gwern> I think generally it'd be that way - there must be an awful lot of temptation, if you're a moderate of either bloc, to become the swing vote
2008-03-05 21:35 < TheWeasel> A breach of the constitution requires five votes for
2008-03-05 21:35 < Messedrocker> otherwise it loses?
2008-03-05 21:35 < TheWeasel> otherwise the law is fine
2008-03-05 21:35 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-03-05 21:36 < TheWeasel> *is* in a prescriptive sense, cause they can be wrong
2008-03-05 21:36 < TheWeasel> there are swing votes still