freenode #wikipedia

2008-03-04 19:21 < Ceiling_Cat> NSFW
2008-03-04 19:21 < zvook> jeez
2008-03-04 19:21 < zvook> you coulda said the second part first
2008-03-04 19:21 < NotAPolecat> dig that far-out cat.
2008-03-04 19:21 < ijustam> "horrible to let cats do that"
2008-03-04 19:21 < ijustam> god forbid!
2008-03-04 19:22 < ijustam> ahaha brother and sister
2008-03-04 19:22 < Ceiling_Cat> any idea what language they are speaking?
2008-03-04 19:22 < Ceiling_Cat> Italian perhaps?
2008-03-04 19:22 < zvook> who, the cats? japanese
2008-03-04 19:22 < NotACow> cat incest!
2008-03-04 19:23 * NotAPolecat is completing the article on Rhode Island on de.wiki
2008-03-04 19:23 * Ceiling_Cat watches cremepuff222
2008-03-04 19:23 < zvook> the guy who posted the video is Polish
2008-03-04 19:24 < NotAPolecat> Obamakos Wins Rhodes, Finishes Second In Ohion And Texas.
2008-03-04 19:24 < NotAPolecat> not really
2008-03-04 19:25 < zvook> obamakos?
2008-03-04 19:25 < zvook> has he merged with the blogger?
2008-03-04 19:25 < cremepuff222> Hey Ceiling_Cat. :-)
2008-03-04 19:25 < Cyrius> texas polls haven't closed yet
2008-03-04 19:26 < NotAPolecat> I know that.
2008-03-04 19:26 < NotAPolecat> I was just wondering whether Rhode Island may have something to do with Rhodos
2008-03-04 19:26 * Ceiling_Cat huggles cremepuff222
2008-03-04 19:28 < cremepuff222> :-P
2008-03-04 19:29 < NotACow> "taxes" is an anagram of "texas"
2008-03-04 19:29 < Demi> Don't mass with taxes.
2008-03-04 19:29 < NotACow> heh
2008-03-04 19:30 < NotACow> atsex is also an anagram of texas.
2008-03-04 19:30 < Cyrius> woo, atsex
2008-03-04 19:30 < Demi> atsex is my favorite state
2008-03-04 19:30 < NotACow> xseat
2008-03-04 19:30 < Demi> Xseat is a brand of chair used in pair programming.
2008-03-04 19:31 < NotACow> heh
2008-03-04 19:31 < NotACow> xeats
2008-03-04 19:32 < NotACow> steax
2008-03-04 19:32 < Demi> those are for milxing
2008-03-04 19:32 < Cyrius> Steax is an xtreeem grilled meat restaurant
2008-03-04 19:33 < Demi> "We have Mountain Dew, Mountain Dew Amp, Red Bull and Rockstar."
2008-03-04 19:33 < NotACow> Demi: do you have any actually drinkable beverags?
2008-03-04 19:33 < Demi> "No, that's not extreme."
2008-03-04 19:34 < nds> so... if you receive a highly-uncivil message from another editor, is it worth reporting somewhere, or should I just ignore it?
2008-03-04 19:34 < Cyrius> probably just ignore it
2008-03-04 19:34 < NotACow> nds: you should definitely attempt to spread news of the incivility as far and wide as possible, so as to maximize drama.
2008-03-04 19:34 < nds> LOL
2008-03-04 19:35 < nds> C
2008-03-04 19:35 < nds> CAN HAS MORE DRAMA?
2008-03-04 19:35 < NotACow> nds: there is no limit on drama
2008-03-04 19:35 < nds> sweet
2008-03-04 19:35 < NotACow> the more the better
2008-03-04 19:35 < NotACow> try to mix in some irony, though
2008-03-04 19:35 < NotACow> because wikipedia runs on irony
2008-03-04 19:36 < nds> i figured it would just devolve into an argument about whether the email was actually sent (or fabricated) so I figured it was pointless to compalin.
2008-03-04 19:36 * White_Cat smacks Demi
2008-03-04 19:36 * White_Cat smacks Demi again
2008-03-04 19:36 < NotACow> nds: my advice is to blog about it
2008-03-04 19:36 * White_Cat smacks Demi like not tomorow
2008-03-04 19:36 < Demi> ouch
2008-03-04 19:40 * Ryan_wp wonders why he's sitting here going through his endless files and not doing anything useful.
2008-03-04 19:41 < Demi> endless files? now that's lazy generation
2008-03-04 19:41 < Ryan_wp> Okay, maybe not endless... I'm just going through them really, really, really slowly. ;)
2008-03-04 19:41 < Cyrius> damned haskell
2008-03-04 19:43 * Lucifer_Cat watches Ceiling_Cat
2008-03-04 19:44 * Therapist_Cat jumps out of the bushes, grabs Lucifer_Cat, pulls him out of site
2008-03-04 19:44 * Ryan_wp runs downstairs to get a fresh loaf of bread.
2008-03-04 19:45 < Ryan_wp_away> mmm... I smell that all the way up here... be back later
2008-03-04 19:47 < Lucifer_Cat> is Therapist_Cat like this Candlejack person, i mean he ju
2008-03-04 19:48 < Therapist_Cat> ju
2008-03-04 19:48 < Therapist_Cat> ?
2008-03-04 19:48 < FastLizard4> Why were we +r?
2008-03-04 19:48 < Ceiling_Cat> probably because of the GNAA people attacking this channel last night
2008-03-04 19:48 < Lucifer_Cat> they attacked last night?
2008-03-04 19:48 < Cyrius> this morning/afternoon
2008-03-04 19:48 < Lucifer_Cat> how many hours ago?
2008-03-04 19:48 < Cyrius> 6ish
2008-03-04 19:48 < Lucifer_Cat> ok
2008-03-04 19:49 * Not_the_NSA waves to Ceiling_Cat , the Ceiling_Crat
2008-03-04 19:49 < Lucifer_Cat> i was in Chinatown :P
2008-03-04 19:49 * Ceiling_Cat latches onto Not_the_NSA
2008-03-04 19:49 < Ceiling_Cat> BRB
2008-03-04 19:53 < NotAPolecat> McCain carries Ohio
2008-03-04 19:53 < NotAPolecat> Four dads in Ohio
2008-03-04 19:55 < Lucifer_Cat> four dads?
2008-03-04 19:57 < Cyrius> mccain winning is a non-story at this point
2008-03-04 19:57 < freenoder> hello
2008-03-04 19:57 < Daniel_Bush> Yellow
2008-03-04 19:57 < FastLizard4> Hello freenoder
2008-03-04 19:57 < Daniel_Bush> jello.
2008-03-04 19:57 * FastLizard4 troutslaps Daniel_Bush
2008-03-04 19:58 < freenoder> wikipedia sucks really hard
2008-03-04 19:58 < FastLizard4> freenoder: Don't say it too loud, people have been banned for less
2008-03-04 19:58 < freenoder> for many weeks it mentioned that Joey Demaio has glass eye
2008-03-04 19:59 < Lucifer_Cat> why is [[DNA]] article semi protected?
2008-03-04 19:59 < Lucifer_Cat> im not interested in editing it, but i found it interesting...
2008-03-04 20:00 < Daniel_Bush> Because if anyone could edit Wikipedia's DNA, they could genetically splice it into a chicken
2008-03-04 20:00 < Lucifer_Cat> har har har
2008-03-04 20:00 < Daniel_Bush> If you don't think that makes sense, look it up in Wikipedia
2008-03-04 20:00 < Lucifer_Cat> anyone knows the real reason?
2008-03-04 20:01 < ijustam> wikipedia's wikipedia page is unprotected, though
2008-03-04 20:01 < freenoder> the real reason is that people are ignorant on DNA
2008-03-04 20:01 < The359> look throught he article history?
2008-03-04 20:01 < freenoder> issues
2008-03-04 20:02 < ijustam> (Protected DNA: Constant target of IP vandalism, multiple previous protections [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (undo)
2008-03-04 20:02 < freenoder> vandals
2008-03-04 20:02 < freenoder> mutated
2008-03-04 20:03 < Lucifer_Cat> heh. one for the irony.
2008-03-04 20:04 < Lucifer_Cat> The359: I'd love to, but I can never understand/make sense of those pages.
2008-03-04 20:05 < The359> wtf
2008-03-04 20:05 < The359> what an odd FA article
2008-03-04 20:05 < The359> on the main page
2008-03-04 20:05 < Ryan_wp> Hello again :)
2008-03-04 20:07 < Ryan_wp> Why? Why does everyone always stop talking when I say something? ;)
2008-03-04 20:07 < Cyrius> we're scared of you
2008-03-04 20:09 < The359> HAH
2008-03-04 20:09 < The359> that plane that almost crashed trying to land in Hamburg
2008-03-04 20:09 < Yert> CNN wants to come to Erie :O
2008-03-04 20:09 < The359> Was a 24yo female co-pilot on her first landing
2008-03-04 20:12 * soufron oyoyo
2008-03-04 20:13 < The359> lol, nice
2008-03-04 20:13 < The359> Some proclaimed audiophile experts couldn't tell the difference between a setup running Monster Cable and another setup running...hanger wire
2008-03-04 20:14 < Ryan_wp> :o Some experts...
2008-03-04 20:15 < JT> probably because monster cable is bs
2008-03-04 20:15 < Golbez> cables are among the most marked-up products in electronics stores
2008-03-04 20:15 < JT> to trick wankers into spending lots of money
2008-03-04 20:15 < Golbez> monster or otherwise
2008-03-04 20:15 * ancjr doesn't believe in voodoo
2008-03-04 20:15 < Golbez> but monster in particular
2008-03-04 20:15 < The359> yeah, it's all shit
2008-03-04 20:15 < Golbez> A 14 foot HDMI cable from Best Buy, Monster of course, would have cost me $55.
2008-03-04 20:15 < Golbez> I went to a local computer outfit and bought a no-name one for $12.
2008-03-04 20:16 < The359> My dad went and bout an HDMI cable for my PS3, for big bucks
2008-03-04 20:16 < The359> Which was great on our flat screen TV we just bought
2008-03-04 20:16 < The359> Except he didn't realize the TV that PS3 was actually going to be permanently hooked up to doesn't have HDMI
2008-03-04 20:16 < The359> so he now has a cable that doesn't work on anything
2008-03-04 20:16 < quanticle> Heh.
2008-03-04 20:16 < FastLizard4|busy> I made my own HDMI cable with two $1 cable tips, a cutter, a wire stripper, and a splicing device
2008-03-04 20:17 < quanticle> The359: Why didn't he leave the PS3 hooked up to the flat-screen?
2008-03-04 20:17 < quanticle> The359: The PS3 is the cheapest Blu-Ray player out there.
2008-03-04 20:17 < The359> the flat screen is in the family room, it's the main TV in the house
2008-03-04 20:17 < White_Cat> quanticle not true
2008-03-04 20:17 < quanticle> White_Cat: There's one that's cheaper?
2008-03-04 20:17 < White_Cat> yes
2008-03-04 20:17 < White_Cat> a computer drive
2008-03-04 20:17 < The359> so it'd be dumb to have me playing video games on it if people wanted to watch stuff in there
2008-03-04 20:17 < The359> so it's in the den instead
2008-03-04 20:17 < quanticle> White_Cat: Good luck hooking one of those up to a TV.
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> quanticle VGA cable
2008-03-04 20:18 < Golbez> quanticle- actually, that's what my HDMI cable was for.
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> simple stuff
2008-03-04 20:18 < Golbez> it runs between my GeForce and the TV. =p
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> or an HDMI cable
2008-03-04 20:18 < Golbez> and before you say it - it has two outputs.
2008-03-04 20:18 < quanticle> Golbez: But, I bet your computer cost just a wee bit more than $600.
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> Golbez oh
2008-03-04 20:18 < Golbez> as far as my computer is concerned, it has two monitors.
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> you mean you dont IRC over a flat screen plasma?
2008-03-04 20:18 < White_Cat> how quaint
2008-03-04 20:19 < Golbez> quanticle- a wee bit. but then again, that's also why PC drives are cheaper. They don't have to include all the outputs, or power supply, or have a pretty case. It's bare bones.
2008-03-04 20:19 < Golbez> no, I IRC over a flat screen 24" LCD, only slightly smaller than my 26" TV. =p
2008-03-04 20:19 < White_Cat> Golbez I love it when you agree with me
2008-03-04 20:19 * Ryan_wp uses his laptop screen 100% of the time
2008-03-04 20:19 < quanticle> Golbez: Right. They don't have to include the decoders either - there's a CPU already present to handle it.
2008-03-04 20:19 < Messedrocker> i IRC with a 13 inch screen
2008-03-04 20:19 < Messedrocker> my TV is not widescreen and is slightly larger
2008-03-04 20:19 < quanticle> I IRC on a 15" LCD.
2008-03-04 20:19 < Golbez> 13" lol
2008-03-04 20:19 < Messedrocker> 13 inch widescreen.
2008-03-04 20:20 < quanticle> Its still 13:
2008-03-04 20:20 < Messedrocker> it's IRC ffs. you can do it with an 80 char by 80 char terminal
2008-03-04 20:20 * White_Cat ircs on a cell phone screen hooked up to his laptop
2008-03-04 20:20 < Messedrocker> yes quanticle
2008-03-04 20:20 < Messedrocker> screens are measured diagonally
2008-03-04 20:20 < White_Cat> monocrome
2008-03-04 20:20 < White_Cat> beat that!
2008-03-04 20:20 < Messedrocker> monochrome-screen cell phones?
2008-03-04 20:20 < quanticle> Dumb terminal
2008-03-04 20:20 < Messedrocker> gb2 2000
2008-03-04 20:20 * Yert lols @ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8JOhsBq1iI
2008-03-04 20:22 < White_Cat> Yert I have 3 issues with the real commercial
2008-03-04 20:22 < quanticle> Yert: Heh. "3 am! Pantsuits!"
2008-03-04 20:22 < Yert> White_Cat: The spoof is funny
2008-03-04 20:22 < White_Cat> I hope the next person that is going to answer the phone wont wait it to ring 6 times
2008-03-04 20:22 * Ryan_wp 's computer won't load YouTube videos
2008-03-04 20:22 < White_Cat> "it rang 5 times, I guess they are not there, launch the missles!"
2008-03-04 20:22 < quanticle> Ryan_wp: No Flash?
2008-03-04 20:22 < Yert> White_Cat: Lol.
2008-03-04 20:23 < White_Cat> And this issue was already used by someone else
2008-03-04 20:23 < Ryan_wp> Yes Flash. It just sits and loads... and loads... and loads... (did I mention I don't have dial-up?)
2008-03-04 20:24 < quanticle> Ryan_wp: What operating system?
2008-03-04 20:24 < Ryan_wp> Vista. Also, it used to work.
2008-03-04 20:25 < quanticle> Firefox or IE?
2008-03-04 20:25 < freenoder> opera
2008-03-04 20:25 < Ryan_wp> Firefox (who used IE anymore?)
2008-03-04 20:25 < Jmax> i do
2008-03-04 20:25 < Ryan_wp> *uses
2008-03-04 20:25 < Jmax> ie7: safer than ever
2008-03-04 20:25 < White_Cat> by Mondale
2008-03-04 20:26 < Ryan_wp> Eh, suit yourself Jmax.
2008-03-04 20:26 < quanticle> Ryan_wp: Hmmm, have to tried deleting the Flash plugin from the Firefox plugins directory and re-installing Flash?
2008-03-04 20:26 < Jmax> i do suit myself, daily
2008-03-04 20:26 < White_Cat> he ran against regan
2008-03-04 20:26 < White_Cat> and he was also a democrat
2008-03-04 20:27 * Ryan_wp cannot do anything of the sort due to a lack of administrator privleges.
2008-03-04 20:27 < White_Cat> Ryan_wp aw
2008-03-04 20:27 < White_Cat> you could do like me
2008-03-04 20:27 < White_Cat> stare at a wall aimlessly
2008-03-04 20:28 < White_Cat> its quite fun
2008-03-04 20:28 * Ryan_wp stares at a wall aimlessly
2008-03-04 20:28 < White_Cat> I just noticed a palm mark
2008-03-04 20:28 < White_Cat> someone left on the wall
2008-03-04 20:29 < White_Cat> oh wow a security cam
2008-03-04 20:29 * White_Cat waves
2008-03-04 20:30 < Ryan_wp> *talks like a 3 year old* Hi Mr. Security person! Whatcha doin'?
2008-03-04 20:30 * Ryan_wp has to go :(
2008-03-04 20:31 * Ryan_wp appreciates the attempt to help
2008-03-04 20:31 < Jmax> sometimes i wonder if this #wikipedia or #yiffcentral
2008-03-04 20:31 < FastLizard4|busy> see ya Ryan_wp
2008-03-04 20:31 < Ryan_wp> Adios :)
2008-03-04 20:32 < ST47> Holy shit. Our featured article is not a video game, not the video game rating system, but the rating of a particlular videogame
2008-03-04 20:33 < wimt> Oh god.
2008-03-04 20:34 < wimt> I think the way its phrased on the main page which just links the verb, rather than using the event as a noun, makes it sound even worse than it is.
2008-03-04 20:34 < NotAPolecat> That's odd
2008-03-04 20:34 < freenoder> that's nod
2008-03-04 20:34 < NotAPolecat> the article on Nebraska on de.wiki is locked without a reason
2008-03-04 20:34 < ST47> de.wiki is odd, as a rule
2008-03-04 20:35 < White_Cat> de.wiki is a theology
2008-03-04 20:39 < freenoder> wtf White_Cat
2008-03-04 20:40 < White_Cat> freenoder there is like a holy rule everyone follows :/
2008-03-04 20:40 < freenoder> this is what you chose?
2008-03-04 20:40 < ijustam> what rule is this
2008-03-04 20:42 < White_Cat> oh its the veral flow
2008-03-04 20:42 < White_Cat> de.wiki is much much more strict than all other wikis combined
2008-03-04 20:42 < NotAPolecat> yea, you can only look at the source code
2008-03-04 20:42 < NotAPolecat> it's odd
2008-03-04 20:42 < NotAPolecat> I can't imagine any vandalism on de.
2008-03-04 20:43 < NotAPolecat> (to Nebraska)
2008-03-04 20:43 < Angelos-> nevada
2008-03-04 20:43 < NotAPolecat> Wow, semiprotected since Feb 2007 for no reason at all
2008-03-04 20:43 < White_Cat> NotAPolecat
2008-03-04 20:43 < NotAPolecat> No wonder that it's such a rubbish article
2008-03-04 20:44 < White_Cat> Nebraska is a boring state
2008-03-04 20:44 < White_Cat> its not like anyone would edit it
2008-03-04 20:44 < NotAPolecat> Yea, thats why it's so odd
2008-03-04 20:45 < NotAPolecat> the rationale is "IPs love Nebraska"
2008-03-04 20:45 < Tes_Fan> hi
2008-03-04 20:45 * Tes_Fan lives in Nebraska xD
2008-03-04 20:46 < Tes_Fan> I just came here to say that having http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESRB_re-rating_of_The_Elder_Scrolls_IV:_Oblivion on the main page really made my day XD
2008-03-04 20:47 < Angelos-> you really don't have any life apparently
2008-03-04 20:47 < Tes_Fan> no
2008-03-04 20:47 < Tes_Fan> I don't
2008-03-04 20:47 < Angelos-> you little nebraskian
2008-03-04 20:48 < zvook> that's quite uh
2008-03-04 20:48 < zvook> esoteric
2008-03-04 20:49 < Tes_Fan> ty
2008-03-04 20:50 < zvook> "a "pseudo-sequel" to the Hot Coffee minigame controversy."
2008-03-04 20:50 < zvook> i'm clearly out of my depth here
2008-03-04 20:51 < White_Cat> it is really fascinating
2008-03-04 20:51 < White_Cat> we have zelaots who declare everything nonotable
2008-03-04 20:51 < Angelos-> zealots
2008-03-04 20:51 < scorchsaber> non-notable
2008-03-04 20:51 < Tes_Fan> everything
2008-03-04 20:51 < scorchsaber> period (.)
2008-03-04 20:51 < scorchsaber> We
2008-03-04 20:51 < White_Cat> yes something as TRIVIAL as the changing of the rating of a game is a featured article
2008-03-04 20:52 < Tes_Fan> yea
2008-03-04 20:52 < White_Cat> makes you wonder
2008-03-04 20:52 < scorchsaber> Oh, crap, now there's more to correct
2008-03-04 20:52 < scorchsaber> thanks a lot Angelos-
2008-03-04 20:52 < White_Cat> the resistance by them is futile
2008-03-04 20:52 < Tes_Fan> White_Cat: It's not up to wikipedia to decide what is notable
2008-03-04 20:52 < Angelos-> yw
2008-03-04 20:52 < scorchsaber> Tes_Fan: Yeah it is. :/
2008-03-04 20:52 < Tes_Fan> It all depends on how many sources they havee
2008-03-04 20:52 < White_Cat> Tes_Fan wikiedia is a website
2008-03-04 20:52 < White_Cat> people matter
2008-03-04 20:52 < scorchsaber> Tes_Fan: That's one of the criteria for deletion, isn't it?
2008-03-04 20:52 < Tes_Fan> Sorry, the users for wikipedia
2008-03-04 20:52 < White_Cat> Tes_Fan sources are not relevant to notability
2008-03-04 20:53 < White_Cat> I can rain sources on unimportant nonotable people if you like
2008-03-04 20:53 < scorchsaber> Tes_Fan: Wikipedia *is* the users, though. <_<
2008-03-04 20:53 < White_Cat> every armed service serviceman as a third party source for example
2008-03-04 20:53 < Tes_Fan> Sorry, just mimicking what everybody said on all the RuneScape vfds
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> I am paying close attention of this crusade against popular culture
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> * of -> to
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> I am watching them piss off enough people
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> end result is the same all the time
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> Mark_Ryan helo
2008-03-04 20:54 < tdh5609> what crusade?
2008-03-04 20:54 < zvook> White_Cat if the articles were good enough, there wouldn't be a problem
2008-03-04 20:54 < White_Cat> Mark_Ryan I need to talk to you
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> zvook these people even blank featured articles
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> zvook articles develop over time
2008-03-04 20:55 < Tes_Fan> I was annoyed that we have obscure pages on Neopets, yet large subpages about games like RS and WoW get killed
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> Tes_Fan you contribute to the problem
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> you shouldnt think lowly of other peoples work
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> just because you care not about it
2008-03-04 20:55 < White_Cat> Mark_Ryan
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> it is imperative we talk
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> Mark_Ryan I need you
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> LO
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> :P
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> gah
2008-03-04 20:56 < zvook> i agree it can be hard for a non-expert to tell if an article has potential or not. but you must also admit that people will argue that an article has when it does not.
2008-03-04 20:56 < Tes_Fan> White_Cat: I don't think lowly of the page.
2008-03-04 20:56 < White_Cat> zvook if an article is on something that has been broadcasted internationaly I would not pursue the WP:N card on it
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> say a tv series
2008-03-04 20:57 < Mark_Ryan> White_Cat, I am on IRC to do a single thing, and that is not to talk to you. I have my first uni class of the year soon, and have to go to that
2008-03-04 20:57 < Tes_Fan> Like the FA for today was, right?
2008-03-04 20:57 < Tes_Fan> not sure if that was internatioal =P
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> Mark_Ryan you break my heart
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> fine, go prefer me over classes
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> err
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> I said that wrong
2008-03-04 20:57 < White_Cat> >_<
2008-03-04 20:57 < zvook> no tv series is getting deleted though, is it
2008-03-04 20:58 < White_Cat> zvook no they are not yet
2008-03-04 20:58 < White_Cat> all information on the episodes characters in the show however are
2008-03-04 20:58 < White_Cat> or used to
2008-03-04 20:58 < zvook> yeah well that's not the same
2008-03-04 20:58 < White_Cat> its the sae
2008-03-04 21:00 < White_Cat> if no episode of a show no character of a show is notable what makes the show notable?
2008-03-04 21:00 < White_Cat> rather than wasting peoples time with arguing what is and what isnt notable people should help write them
2008-03-04 21:01 < White_Cat> all articles on wikipedia that is not a featured article will not be a part of wikipedia 1.0
2008-03-04 21:01 < White_Cat> not even good article is an acceptable quality
2008-03-04 21:01 < White_Cat> so i dont understand these people
2008-03-04 21:05 < LazaroTormes> netsplit
2008-03-04 21:07 < freenoderr> has anyone sent money order?
2008-03-04 21:09 < Yert> Lol.
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> and reconnect :DD
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> and reconnect
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> rofl
2008-03-04 21:09 < Stormscape> wow
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> #wikipedia-en-help is still dead....
2008-03-04 21:09 < FastLizard4|busy> Join flooders
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> damn join flooders
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> :P
2008-03-04 21:09 < FastLizard4|busy> heh, #cvn-wp-en is dead too
2008-03-04 21:09 < eth01> uh
2008-03-04 21:09 < FastLizard4|busy> That was a bad split
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> there are 4 people in #wikipedia-en-help
2008-03-04 21:09 < FastLizard4|busy> Still not total recovery
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> yeah pretty epic.
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> This is epic
2008-03-04 21:09 < Yert> Death to freenode?
2008-03-04 21:09 < Yert> 666?
2008-03-04 21:09 * Chetblong gulps
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> dial 1 for death to freenode.
2008-03-04 21:09 * Chetblong dials 1
2008-03-04 21:09 < Buffalosoldier92> 1
2008-03-04 21:09 < Kerotan> Viva la revolution.
2008-03-04 21:09 < LordMetroid> You want to be like Xena, like Margaret Tatcher in a bikini
2008-03-05 12:48 < TheWeasel> I thought they hated McCain and would rather torpedo his election and go into opposition than see him president
2008-03-05 12:49 < Demi> who's that?
2008-03-05 12:49 < TheWeasel> the ones that have run the GOP 1995-2005
2008-03-05 12:50 < Gracenotes> I'm not sure they have any other choice
2008-03-05 12:50 < TheWeasel> i.e. mostly the religious right
2008-03-05 12:50 < Gracenotes> and it's a better image for the Republicans to be cohesive
2008-03-05 12:50 < Demi> the republicans are better at forming coalitions with elements that disgust one another
2008-03-05 12:51 < TheWeasel> that can be an admirable quality
2008-03-05 12:51 < TheWeasel> as in, admirable skill
2008-03-05 12:51 < Demi> Progressives get mad at Democrats and do stupid things like vote for Nader; Fundies get mad at Republicans and vote for the guy anyway
2008-03-05 12:52 < TheWeasel> yea.
2008-03-05 12:52 < Demi> i also have a theory that the religious mind is uniquely suited to hypocritical action
2008-03-05 12:52 < TheWeasel> means that maybe the left is far more ideological?
2008-03-05 12:52 < Demi> but that is (wait for your favorite word TheWeasel) controversial
2008-03-05 12:52 * TheWeasel gets rash
2008-03-05 12:52 < TheWeasel> rash as a noun
2008-03-05 12:53 < Demi> i don't think they're more ideological, i think they're... something else
2008-03-05 12:53 < Demi> they aren't good with the idea of pushing from the middle
2008-03-05 12:53 < Demi> they drag from the end
2008-03-05 12:53 < Demi> and what they're dragging is a lizard, and that lizard represents the political specturm
2008-03-05 12:54 < Demi> "spectrum" // and they pull the lizard's tail
2008-03-05 12:54 < Demi> off
2008-03-05 12:54 < kenlyric_> Demi: most progressives didn't vote for nader anyway.
2008-03-05 12:54 < Demi> the lizard's tail is Ralph Nader. And Dennis Kucinich is the stump
2008-03-05 12:54 < kenlyric_> they got voting booth panic
2008-03-05 12:54 < TheWeasel> I mean, I've never missed an election in my life, and I've never voted without holding my nose.
2008-03-05 12:54 < TheWeasel> it's maturity
2008-03-05 12:54 < Demi> kenlyric_ - in which election?
2008-03-05 12:55 < kenlyric_> the election where people actually voted for him, in 2000
2008-03-05 12:55 < TheWeasel> I'd buy used books from Kucinich, not have him run my country.
2008-03-05 12:56 < Gracenotes> kenlyric_: according to a columnist, George Bush won the election because he was Bugs Bunny.
2008-03-05 12:56 < Gracenotes> http://www.slate.com/id/2185720/
2008-03-05 12:57 < Gracenotes> 'Bush looked over his shoulder, offered a slight "Oh, hi there!" nod, and the debate was effectively over. It was a classic Bugs vanquishing.'
2008-03-05 12:57 < Demi> the people i know who call themselves progressives a) voted for Nader and b) think 9/11 was a conspiracy and we are being mind-controlled by chemtrails
2008-03-05 12:57 < kenlyric_> he got a 1/3 of the votes he polled before the election. the majority of people who said they'd vote for him were non-voters otherwise. There's much evidence that nader brough more non-voters to gore than took away votes.
2008-03-05 12:57 < TheWeasel> So you have to be light and fuzzy to win.
2008-03-05 12:57 < kenlyric_> that race was even remotely close can't be blamed on Gore's complete lack of a campaign
2008-03-05 12:58 < Gracenotes> something like, yes
2008-03-05 12:59 < kenlyric_> Gracenotes: no, he's more a muppet. kermit maybe
2008-03-05 12:59 < Demi> in what way do you think Gore woudl have had "more of a campaign"?
2008-03-05 12:59 < TheWeasel> shows that few things are less political than electoral politics.
2008-03-05 12:59 < kenlyric_> Demi: not look quite so dead?
2008-03-05 13:00 < Demi> kenlyric_ - he looked fine. i guess you just beleived it when pundits kept repeating that he looked dead?
2008-03-05 13:00 < kenlyric_> not avoid the mere mention of the years 1992-2000?
2008-03-05 13:00 < TheWeasel> Win Tennessee!
2008-03-05 13:00 < kenlyric_> he bought into the lie that people hated bill clinton, but the only people that hated bill clinton were the people who would never vote for him *ever*
2008-03-05 13:01 < TheWeasel> I just love how voters keep playing the media for suckers in the Dem primaries.
2008-03-05 13:02 < Demi> the 2000 election was marked by pundits establishing "facts" of subjective judgment--Gore's "woodenness" and Bush's "likeability" by mere repetition. Bush never was likeable--he has always been smug, mean-spirited and inarticulate; but people believed it when it was repeated at them often enough.
2008-03-05 13:02 < TheWeasel> it's so rewarding cause it shows that pundits start to stop being so crucial.
2008-03-05 13:02 < kenlyric_> gore wasn't wooden. He was just not very motivated.
2008-03-05 13:03 < kenlyric_> mostly because nobody thought it was going to be a very difficult fight.
2008-03-05 13:03 < Demi> i don't even know what that's supposed to mean
2008-03-05 13:03 < AnGeLiQ> Hi! Are there any real girls on Wikipedia?
2008-03-05 13:03 < Demi> you mean like in lars and the real girl? sure.
2008-03-05 13:03 < kenlyric_> it's supposed to mean he just assumed he'd win.
2008-03-05 13:03 < Bair|Nungging> no, with vajajays
2008-03-05 13:03 < Demi> missed one
2008-03-05 13:05 < TheWeasel> I love the handwringing when somebody is too far left of center
2008-03-05 13:05 < TheWeasel> in the pundit class
2008-03-05 13:05 < kenlyric_> if you're going to assume to win based on the stellar administration you were veep in, you can't skate around that administration like it's full of spikes.
2008-03-05 13:05 < Demi> are pundits a social class?
2008-03-05 13:05 < TheWeasel> "controversial" comes to mind as a vocabulary
2008-03-05 13:06 < kenlyric_> especially not when you're up against the evil might of karl rove and dick cheney
2008-03-05 13:06 < Gracenotes> >.<
2008-03-05 13:06 < Demi> kenlyric_ - and yet he won. go figure.
2008-03-05 13:06 < kenlyric_> and to be fair, gore *still* didn't lose that election :)
2008-03-05 13:06 < kenlyric_> try as he might.
2008-03-05 13:07 < TheWeasel> because it's commonly assumed that "plain folks" have "plain values" and are SHOCKED I SAY when someone breaks that set of presumed values.
2008-03-05 13:08 < Demi> i support average folks' values of keeping up a facade of victorian prudishness and punishing people for being different while hypocritically engaging in many behaviors proscribed by their strict moral standards. that's the american way, goddammit.
2008-03-05 13:09 < TheWeasel> There is absolutely no proof that those "folks" have those values
2008-03-05 13:09 < TheWeasel> Rather, I think it's a severe case of projection.
2008-03-05 13:09 < Demi> i submit Larry the Cable Guy as proof of a deficiency of national character.
2008-03-05 13:10 < TheWeasel> the old "Those are not American values, those are [insert city or blue state] values"
2008-03-05 13:10 < Demi> The latte libel
2008-03-05 13:11 < Demi> i'm kind of surpised we don't have an article or redirect at [[Latte libel]]
2008-03-05 13:11 < TheWeasel> I just love the juxtaposition.
2008-03-05 13:11 < TheWeasel> doesn't everyone drink latte nowadays?
2008-03-05 13:12 < NotACow> hm
2008-03-05 13:12 < Demi> they drink moolattes from dairy queen
2008-03-05 13:12 < NotACow> http://essays.hexapodia.net/wales/ <- some random dude commenting on jimmy
2008-03-05 13:12 < TheWeasel> oh, you're reading your trackbacks
2008-03-05 13:13 < Demi> the smoking guns so far have been pretty pitiful
2008-03-05 13:13 < Demi> i used to work for nonprofits exclusively and these expenses are trivial
2008-03-05 13:13 < The359> Aren't all bloggers random dudes?
2008-03-05 13:13 < NotACow> TheWeasel: i tend to do that :)
2008-03-05 13:13 < Demi> some of them are only pseudorandom
2008-03-05 13:14 < NotACow> Demi: i think danny may be building up to bigger fish
2008-03-05 13:14 < Demi> give them the same seed and they'll make the same blog post again and again
2008-03-05 13:14 < NotACow> Demi: heh, i've seen some of those blogs
2008-03-05 13:14 * Demi shrugs, it seems mostly handwaving with the occasional "zinger" like the famous $650 bottle of wine
2008-03-05 13:14 < Demi> if there's malfeasance let's see it
2008-03-05 13:14 < gwern> weird blog post. didn't the audit just come out?
2008-03-05 13:15 < NotACow> Demi: i don't know if there is or not.
2008-03-05 13:15 < Demi> it's not like people haven't been pissed at jwales for a while
2008-03-05 13:15 < TheWeasel> like the famous wine bottle haircut flight
2008-03-05 13:15 < NotACow> gwern: the audit doesn't answer any of these questions
2008-03-05 13:15 < gwern> and it's too late for the years in question to be audited...
2008-03-05 13:15 < NotACow> gwern: well, it probably is, but it probably should not be
2008-03-05 13:15 < gwern> 'To my mind, the first would require a thorough audit, by an independent auditor, with the auditor's report being available to (at minimum) all donors within the audited period or (ideally) available to anyone.'
2008-03-05 13:16 < NotACow> gwern: the audit that has been performed merely states that the accounts have been kept according to the generally applicable rules of accoutning.
2008-03-05 13:16 < NotACow> gwern: it does not certify that no funds were used for hinky purposes.
2008-03-05 13:16 < Demi> the foundation is not being professionally managed, and it seems like part of that has to be the influence of jimbo's thumb. and it's very unfortunate. but that's not the same as malfeasance. i'm more worried about that fraudster they had as office manager.
2008-03-05 13:16 < Demi> whatever came of that?
2008-03-05 13:16 < gwern> NotACow: what else could the audit do?
2008-03-05 13:16 < TheWeasel> Thanks Very Much Sarbanes And Oxley
2008-03-05 13:16 < NotACow> gwern: only that all such hinky allcations were properly recorded in the books.
2008-03-05 13:17 < NotACow> gwern: or at least that the books contain plausible excuses to expllain all such hinkiness.
2008-03-05 13:17 < kenlyric_> wales reminds me of a Musharraf. go ahead and have democracy, but yeah, I still need all the power in case you fuck it up.
2008-03-05 13:17 < TheWeasel> IAR.
2008-03-05 13:18 < TheWeasel> IAR is the hallmark of undemocratic government.
2008-03-05 13:18 < NotACow> gwern: frankly i think it was brad patrick's explicit job to ensure that the books contains rasonable explanations for any irregularities, and that all evidence of irregularity was destroyed or otherwise confounded so that nothing could ever be proved.
2008-03-05 13:18 < TheWeasel> for some extrapolated higher good.
2008-03-05 13:18 < NotACow> TheWeasel: IAR is a good rule for editing encyclopedia articles.
2008-03-05 13:18 < NotACow> TheWeasel: it is a bad rule for running a nonprofit organization
2008-03-05 13:18 < gwern> how cynical. I shall hold my judgement in abeyance until danny has some more solid stuff
2008-03-05 13:18 < TheWeasel> R meaning rhyme or reason?
2008-03-05 13:19 < Demi> rheumatism
2008-03-05 13:19 < TheWeasel> IAR to my mind is never good when regulating a group of people is concerned.
2008-03-05 13:19 < NotACow> gwern: yes, i'm cynical. i've seen enough jimbeauality to know how he works.
2008-03-05 13:19 < Demi> "IAR" as an accounting method obviously means "Ignore All 'Rithmetic"
2008-03-05 13:19 < NotACow> TheWeasel: i tend to agree with you.
2008-03-05 13:20 < TheWeasel> because it dashes trust in people knowing "everything will be ok if I act in way X"
2008-03-05 13:20 < NotACow> TheWeasel: the problem wikipedia has it that it took ethics for writing and applied them to interpersonal relationships.
2008-03-05 13:20 < TheWeasel> which is a basic kind of trust
2008-03-05 13:20 < TheWeasel> hah yes.
2008-03-05 13:20 < NotACow> TheWeasel: IAR works when you're talking about ignoring a style guideline because following it would make your prose awkward.
2008-03-05 13:20 < TheWeasel> yea.
2008-03-05 13:20 < kenlyric_> I doubt it can be questioned that there has to be a head honcho, but I see no reason in particular it should be jimbo. Not that I have any doubt that the wikipedia admin voters wouldn't just vote to keep him in place.
2008-03-05 13:21 < kenlyric_> but you need the illusion of choice.
2008-03-05 13:21 < Demi> what does this honcho do?
2008-03-05 13:21 < NotACow> TheWeasel: it doesn't work when you're talking about ignoring an expectation that an involved party in a dispute will be notified about a significant development.
2008-03-05 13:21 < TheWeasel> I meant ignoring rules that will "allow people to run the shop more smoothly"
2008-03-05 13:21 < TheWeasel> (the ignoring will allow that, allegedly)
2008-03-05 13:21 < kenlyric_> Demi: root passwords on the servers? key to the golden palace? I dunno.
2008-03-05 13:22 < TheWeasel> because the rule, that was protecting interests, "made things slow"
2008-03-05 13:22 < kenlyric_> the same reason every Board needs a chairman.
2008-03-05 13:22 < Demi> IAR is okay, but it might be terribly, terribly named
2008-03-05 13:22 < NotACow> TheWeasel: the main problem is when you go breaking people's expectations.
2008-03-05 13:22 < NotACow> TheWeasel: especially when those expectations are reasonable in context.
2008-03-05 13:22 < Demi> IAR is a permission to do the right thing, not the wrong thing
2008-03-05 13:22 < TheWeasel> Right.
2008-03-05 13:22 < Demi> kenlyric_ - to apply robert's rules of order?
2008-03-05 13:22 < TheWeasel> IAR is a permission to define the Right Thing (tm)
2008-03-05 13:22 < Demi> but it isn't really, it's just taken that way
2008-03-05 13:22 < NotACow> TheWeasel: of course, when you break unreasonable expectations, that's another story.
2008-03-05 13:22 < NotACow> TheWeasel: so you get into an argument over reasonability.
2008-03-05 13:22 < TheWeasel> yeo,
2008-03-05 13:23 < Demi> IAR does not actually need to be stated
2008-03-05 13:23 < NotACow> TheWeasel: which more or less devolves into the same thing
2008-03-05 13:23 < Demi> jaywalking is illegal, right? but if a car is stopped in the street i can walk out and direct traffic around it
2008-03-05 13:23 < Demi> i don't need, or shouldn't need, some kind of explicit exception in the rule for that
2008-03-05 13:23 < TheWeasel> IAR can only apply when following a rule would abuse its sense.
2008-03-05 13:23 < NotACow> TheWeasel: the real problem is that wikipedia is stuffed to th gills with people who have a tendency not to be reasonable. :\
2008-03-05 13:23 < kenlyric_> you usually have a leader because sometimes you need things to happen fast. And if they do the wrong thing, you can punish them later.
2008-03-05 13:23 < Demi> that doesn't give me permission to jaywalk when convenient
2008-03-05 13:23 < TheWeasel> British law calls that the "mischief rule"
2008-03-05 13:23 < Demi> kenlyric_ - we don't need things to happen fast
2008-03-05 13:24 < Demi> when things happen fast, we tend to get them wrong
2008-03-05 13:24 < kenlyric_> Demi: so why does jimbo have the powers he has?
2008-03-05 13:24 < NotACow> there are so few urgent sitations in wikipedia that urgency is almost never a good excuse to violate expectations
2008-03-05 13:24 < Demi> kenlyric_ - because he started it, because there is inertia, because he has a vested interest in remaining in the position
2008-03-05 13:24 < kenlyric_> just have no leader at all then, if it's not needed.
2008-03-05 13:24 < kenlyric_> Demi: like any military dictator
2008-03-05 13:24 < Demi> kenlyric_ - right, i'm trying to figure out if one is or isn't needed
2008-03-05 13:24 < kenlyric_> who keeps the root passwords on the servers?
2008-03-05 13:25 < NotACow> i've yet to see an urgent situation in wikipedia where the appropriate action was not blindingly obvious
2008-03-05 13:25 < TheWeasel> I don't know how founder-dependent American foundations are
2008-03-05 13:25 < NotACow> kenlyric_: brion
2008-03-05 13:25 < NotACow> e.g. "admin is blanking the main page"
2008-03-05 13:25 < NotACow> you don't need a committee meeting to realize that the appropriate action is to disable that admin and restore the main page
2008-03-05 13:26 < NotACow> on the other hand, a community discussion about how to deal with that admin afterwards would be appropriate.
2008-03-05 13:26 < TheWeasel> but how does one heal or punish rash use?
2008-03-05 13:26 < Demi> "[10:23:35] TheWeasel: IAR can only apply when following a rule would abuse its sense." <- yes. so i think the problem is really with the name, not the principle. which just *is*, it doesn't need to be supported or agreed to.
2008-03-05 13:26 < kenlyric_> I had the impression that jimbo had special powers over wikipedia content, like you can't edit over master jimmy or something.
2008-03-05 13:26 < NotACow> Demi: anybody who cites IAR as a reason to do soething deserves to be hit in the head.
2008-03-05 13:26 < TheWeasel> The problem is identifying the situation where it's applicable.
2008-03-05 13:27 < NotACow> kenlyric_: he does, and yet he doesn't.
2008-03-05 13:27 < TheWeasel> You'd have to do it by defining the consequences of not taking the action.
2008-03-05 13:27 < Demi> "ignore all rules" is supposed to be sort of a clever self-referential joke but for people who interpret things simply it invites them to caprice.
2008-03-05 13:27 < Demi> NotACow - yes
2008-03-05 13:27 < NotACow> kenlyric_: jimmy has reserve powers on the english wikpiedia, but he is basically incapable of exercising them at this time
2008-03-05 13:27 < kenlyric_> even bill gates was elected to his own board...
2008-03-05 13:27 < TheWeasel> I think the applicability of IAR can only be defined by the consequence of not taking action
2008-03-05 13:28 < NotACow> kenlyric_: it's very much the same way that the queen has the formal power to dissolve parliament, but if she did so other than consistent with the history and custom for doing so, she would be deposed.
2008-03-05 13:28 < TheWeasel> that's the only way to reasonably limit its application
2008-03-05 13:28 < kenlyric_> so, his position is ceremonial and we should stop funding him
2008-03-05 13:28 < TheWeasel> NotACow: We have that debate right now
2008-03-05 13:28 < kenlyric_> just like the queen
2008-03-05 13:28 < TheWeasel> Our president, who is a figurehead, is refusing to sign an awful lot of laws
2008-03-05 13:29 < NotACow> TheWeasel: intriguing.
2008-03-05 13:29 < TheWeasel> (prevailing opinion now seems to be that he's allowed to do that)
2008-03-05 13:29 < Demi> TheWeasel - i don't know much about the german constitution of government. is this a thing where the powers of the president are not completely clear, like in france?
2008-03-05 13:29 < TheWeasel> as a kind of "notary" of German legislation
2008-03-05 13:29 < NotACow> TheWeasel: it's always a gamble when someone with reserve powers chooses to exercise, or withhold, them contrary to custom
2008-03-05 13:29 < TheWeasel> Yea, definitely
2008-03-05 13:29 < NotACow> TheWeasel: sometimes it works, like when Juan Carlos told the army to stand down.
2008-03-05 13:30 < TheWeasel> the Basic Law was stitched together very fast, and the President's position is ill-defined
2008-03-05 13:30 < kenlyric_> practice based on custom can bite you in the ass :)
2008-03-05 13:30 < Demi> yeah, take that, brits
2008-03-05 13:30 < TheWeasel> specifically whether he can refuse to sign a law that he believes is materially (i.e. by content) unconstitutional
2008-03-05 13:30 < kenlyric_> and then you have to remedy it with law.
2008-03-05 13:30 < Demi> write some shit down, is what i'm saying, limeys
2008-03-05 13:30 < kenlyric_> like term limits on the president.
2008-03-05 13:30 < kenlyric_> (of the US)
2008-03-05 13:30 < TheWeasel> no signing statements here
2008-03-05 13:30 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-03-05 13:31 < Demi> kenlyric_ - what about the uk, where they apparently hold elections and parliamentary sessions any old way?
2008-03-05 13:31 < kenlyric_> and yet they can still pick better leaders than we can.
2008-03-05 13:31 < TheWeasel> *murmurs "ay, ay, ay"
2008-03-05 13:32 < kenlyric_> I say leave them to their mumbles. Seems to work.
2008-03-05 13:32 < Demi> and their government TV is a lot more entertaining, which is the main thing
2008-03-05 13:32 < NotACow> Demi: i love british politics. it's so raw, unfettered, and yet seems to work rather well.
2008-03-05 13:32 < TheWeasel> the UK electoral system is plenty bad.
2008-03-05 13:32 < kenlyric_> plus, they have a healthy disrespect for their leaders
2008-03-05 13:32 < TheWeasel> but very exciting
2008-03-05 13:32 < NotACow> Demi: and they have such delicious traditions.
2008-03-05 13:32 < NotACow> Demi: like the one that you can't resign from the Parliament
2008-03-05 13:33 < Demi> i do think a lack of constitutional protections makes it easier to establish things like pan-surveillance, ASBOs and other ugly things
2008-03-05 13:33 < NotACow> Demi: so if you want out, you get the Crown to appoint you to some stupid useless sinecure, which disqualifies you from Parliament.
2008-03-05 13:33 < Demi> or the mess they used to have with ATM fraud
2008-03-05 13:33 < TheWeasel> you'll be made Guardian Of The Cinque Ports or something though
2008-03-05 13:33 < kenlyric_> Demi: yeah, like it was hard to do the US
2008-03-05 13:33 < TheWeasel> Yea.
2008-03-05 13:33 < TheWeasel> Demi: Definitely
2008-03-05 13:33 < NotACow> Steward of the Chiltern Hundreds.
2008-03-05 13:33 < Demi> kenlyric_ - we still don't have anything like what they have in the UK, not even close
2008-03-05 13:33 < kenlyric_> imagine if the President was expected to go to congress frequently and get yelled at.
2008-03-05 13:33 < TheWeasel> The HRA 1998 is far from sufficient
2008-03-05 13:33 < NotACow> kenlyric_: i think it would dramatically improve things.
2008-03-05 13:34 < Demi> kenlyric_ - i would like that very much
2008-03-05 13:34 < NotACow> i would *love* to see Weekly Questions.
2008-03-05 13:34 < TheWeasel> I think the UK just does things that are more obvious and transparent than the Americans.
2008-03-05 13:34 < Demi> we don't have anything like ASBOs in the u.s., the bar for restraining orders is much much higher
2008-03-05 13:34 < kenlyric_> but, a PM isn't really a president
2008-03-05 13:34 < NotACow> it would make C-SPAN worth watching, at least :)
2008-03-05 13:34 < TheWeasel> the Americans track far more invisible things
2008-03-05 13:34 < Demi> we have never had a situation where depositors had the onus of proving ATM fraud
2008-03-05 13:34 < TheWeasel> which to me isn't all the more comforting
2008-03-05 13:34 < kenlyric_> whatever happened to canings on the floor of the senate?
2008-03-05 13:35 < NotACow> kenlyric_: not since the 1870s, iirc.
2008-03-05 13:35 < kenlyric_> those were good times
2008-03-05 13:35 < Demi> (those were the three specifics i mentioned, and they are all better in the u.s.)
2008-03-05 13:35 < TheWeasel> I saw something from the Georgia legislature recently
2008-03-05 13:35 < TheWeasel> a kind of brawl
2008-03-05 13:35 < TheWeasel> German parliamentarism is impossibly dull
2008-03-05 13:35 < Demi> maybe we should ride people out of town on a rail more often
2008-03-05 13:35 < TheWeasel> maybe proportional representation is bad for interest in politics
2008-03-05 13:35 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-03-05 13:36 < kenlyric_> it was hard to be an american in 2001, when bush and blair would appear together frequently and speak, one right after the other. One of them obviously wasn't tempered in the fire of Weekly Questions.
2008-03-05 13:36 < Demi> ah, yes
2008-03-05 13:39 < TheWeasel> Heh