freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-21 15:09 < gwern> geniice: oh. well, that wouldn't really help. as I said, I haven't be able to find the source
2008-02-21 15:10 < gwern> hacking is a funny word
2008-02-21 15:10 < Demi> well, lunch time, bbl
2008-02-21 15:10 * Demi &
2008-02-21 15:10 < gwern> very polysemous
2008-02-21 15:10 < White_Cat> quanticle did you edit wikipedia at all?
2008-02-21 15:11 < White_Cat> or are you a mere subatopic particle with a mind of its own?
2008-02-21 15:11 < gwern> fg 1
2008-02-21 15:11 < mavhc> also continue to sell the old versions but without any support
2008-02-21 15:11 < mavhc> or just make abandonware legal
2008-02-21 15:12 < geniice> mavhc that would be problematical
2008-02-21 15:12 < gwern> companies would scream. as long as there's a dollar which might be made...
2008-02-21 15:12 < quanticle> Whit_Cat: If I hadn't do you think I'd be here?
2008-02-21 15:12 < quanticle> *White_Cat: ^
2008-02-21 15:13 < White_Cat> quanticle I wouldnt know
2008-02-21 15:13 < White_Cat> some people are here merely to chat
2008-02-21 15:13 < White_Cat> I need a sanity check
2008-02-21 15:13 < quanticle> gwern: Yeah. Look at Nintendo. They're selling abandonware games on the Virtual Console and reaping lots of profit...
2008-02-21 15:14 < gwern> I think you're crazy
2008-02-21 15:14 * bumm13 prefers emulation :p
2008-02-21 15:14 < gwern> *Dr. Zaius: I...
2008-02-21 15:15 < Golbez> oh god why do I do it
2008-02-21 15:15 < Golbez> why do i obsess over finding old information for wikipedia
2008-02-21 15:15 < quanticle> Do what?
2008-02-21 15:15 < Golbez> for an article maybe hundreds of people will ever read
2008-02-21 15:16 < mavhc> 100s a year?
2008-02-21 15:16 < quanticle> Golbez: Which article?
2008-02-21 15:16 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Governors_of_Hawaii#Governors_of_Hawaii_Territory do you PEOPLE know how hard it is to find this crap?!
2008-02-21 15:16 < mavhc> for 100 years
2008-02-21 15:16 < The359> don't fool yourself Golbez
2008-02-21 15:16 < The359> No one will read it
2008-02-21 15:16 < Golbez> lol
2008-02-21 15:16 < Golbez> no, a few will, when i nom it for featured list =p
2008-02-21 15:16 < Golbez> i was dancing between New York Times archives, Google News archives, Google Books... ugh
2008-02-21 15:17 < quanticle> That's actually rather useful information. If I was doing a report on Hawaii, I'd certainly be interested in knowing the governors of the state.
2008-02-21 15:17 < mavhc> you'd think hawaii would have a list
2008-02-21 15:17 < Golbez> mavhc- some states completely disregard territorial governors when making their websites
2008-02-21 15:17 < Golbez> it's bloody annoying
2008-02-21 15:18 < quanticle> Well, its thanks to people like you that Wikipedia is any good at all...
2008-02-21 15:18 < Golbez> aww shucks
2008-02-21 15:18 < Golbez> what aggravates me is that even some of these dates are approximations, so i'll eventually be taking another trip through the archives
2008-02-21 15:18 < quanticle> I just sit around the IRC channel and shoot the breeze, while people like Golbez go out and do all the actual work. Heh.
2008-02-21 15:18 < Golbez> heh
2008-02-21 15:19 < Golbez> sometimes i wonder if i'm the only one who cares what day things happened on. =p
2008-02-21 15:20 < geniice> Golbez yeah unless someone thinks it is there job to produce a bpublic record of such things going back more than about 20 years can often be a pain
2008-02-21 15:21 < geniice> quanticle ah I have excuse. I'm waiting for my latest scan to upload
2008-02-21 15:23 * Golbez crawls back to the nice, cozy, refined Arkansas list, which doesn't hurt him
2008-02-21 15:25 < geniice> here you go guys:
2008-02-21 15:25 < geniice> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Isles_of_Scillymap_1946_unedited.png
2008-02-21 15:25 < geniice> now I've got some serious editing to do to that
2008-02-21 15:26 < Golbez> nice
2008-02-21 15:30 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_unrecognized_countries#Confederate_States_of_America i have no clue what is happening here but i feel i have lost control of it
2008-02-21 15:31 < NotACow> gah, a confederate separatist
2008-02-21 15:31 < OvrLrd-Q> rofl
2008-02-21 15:31 < NotACow> those people are nuts
2008-02-21 15:31 < NotACow> you're debating with a lunatic, dude
2008-02-21 15:31 < geniice> well yes wehen you reaelise that our previous best map was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kernow_Hundreds.png
2008-02-21 15:32 < Golbez> NotACow- but now he has a friend (who suspiciously just registered today)
2008-02-21 15:32 < OvrLrd-Q> ¯\(°_o)/¯
2008-02-21 15:33 < NotACow> Golbez: yay for him.
2008-02-21 15:33 < NotACow> Golbez: he's still a lunatic.
2008-02-21 15:33 < Golbez> fully agreed
2008-02-21 15:33 < geniice> Golbez I have a sudden desire to invade these "confederate state" things
2008-02-21 15:35 < OvrLrd-Q> [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Ethnic_groups#Confederates]] Huh, they're an ethnic group now too
2008-02-21 15:36 < Golbez> ay dios mio.
2008-02-21 15:36 < Golbez> how long til we can block this nutcase? =p
2008-02-21 15:37 < Golbez> well done, OvrLrd-Q
2008-02-21 15:37 < Golbez> you lob it up
2008-02-21 15:37 < quanticle> Good lord. If they want to leave so badly, perhaps we should let them After all, in terms of economy and social measures, the South is the worst part of the US...
2008-02-21 15:37 < Golbez> and i sink the dunk
2008-02-21 15:37 < OvrLrd-Q> Heh, you read his post on [[Talk:Dixiecrat]]?
2008-02-21 15:38 < Golbez> quanticle- yuns need our oil and coca-cola.
2008-02-21 15:38 < Golbez> OvrLrd-Q- yes :(
2008-02-21 15:38 < OvrLrd-Q> How can I tell him to just take Florida lol
2008-02-21 15:38 < Golbez> it should probably be removed as being irrelevant
2008-02-21 15:38 * quanticle drinks Pepsi
2008-02-21 15:38 < Golbez> but i shouldn't do it
2008-02-21 15:39 < quanticle> And Texas doesn't produce that much oil...
2008-02-21 15:39 < Sfan00> If teaxas stopped sending the oil the US would be in trouble....
2008-02-21 15:39 < Sfan00> manyl ebcause it where refenires are
2008-02-21 15:39 < Demi> gulf oil is probably what Golbez is talking about
2008-02-21 15:39 < Golbez> not just Texas, but the gulf coast in general. Lot of rigs out there. And LOOP is the largest point of entry for oil, I think.
2008-02-21 15:39 < quanticle> Oh. Right, I forgot about the refineries...
2008-02-21 15:40 < Sfan00> You end up with a situation like the EU's gas supply being interrupted by russia-ukarine spats
2008-02-21 15:40 < Daniel_Bush> Confederates are not a mere ethnic group. Biologists classify them as a Homo spapiens subspecies, evident by their boar-like tusts and the ivory spikes protruding from their backs.
2008-02-21 15:40 < The359> hmmm
2008-02-21 15:40 < Golbez> lol Daniel_Bush
2008-02-21 15:40 < The359> I'm thinking his entire thing on Dixiecrat should be removed
2008-02-21 15:40 < The359> looks like spam
2008-02-21 15:40 < Golbez> do it
2008-02-21 15:40 < OvrLrd-Q> kinda just an advertisement for his political party
2008-02-21 15:41 < quanticle> Yeah. Its definitely advertising, and Wikipedia is not an advertising service...
2008-02-21 15:41 < Demi> you just need to drill more off california and in alaska, problem solved
2008-02-21 15:41 < OvrLrd-Q> But but . . the mooses!
2008-02-21 15:41 < quanticle> Well, the main problem is the refineries
2008-02-21 15:41 < Demi> california has plenty of refineries, you can build more
2008-02-21 15:41 < NotACow> it's not even a political party
2008-02-21 15:41 < NotACow> it's more lof a game
2008-02-21 15:42 < quanticle> But Texas has all the refineries that can handle heavy Venezuelan crude.
2008-02-21 15:42 < Demi> screw venezuela while we're at it
2008-02-21 15:42 < NotACow> we have refineries in illinois, indiana, michigan, and pennsylvania, too
2008-02-21 15:42 < quanticle> Also, California doesn't have the pipeline infrastructure that Texas does...
2008-02-21 15:42 < NotACow> many of those are running below capacity and could be augmented if need be
2008-02-21 15:42 < Golbez> you also need our crawdads.
2008-02-21 15:42 < Golbez> and our crazy.
2008-02-21 15:43 < quanticle> Yeah, but I'd be willing to wager that Texas has more refineries than those other states combined...
2008-02-21 15:43 < Golbez> without cities like New Orleans and Savannah, how can the United States ever exist with such a vacuum of crazy?
2008-02-21 15:43 < NotACow> quanticle: even counting all the ones that hve blown up?
2008-02-21 15:43 < Golbez> (i say "our" yet I live in Iowa now :P)
2008-02-21 15:43 < NotACow> the real problem with losing texas is, where would we get rice?
2008-02-21 15:44 < OvrLrd-Q> and beef
2008-02-21 15:44 < Golbez> you need texas as the first line of defense in the mexican invasion of canada. we might just let them go through. get some tasty burritos out of the deal.
2008-02-21 15:44 < NotACow> OvrLrd-Q: south dakota.
2008-02-21 15:44 < OvrLrd-Q> I dont believe south dakota exists
2008-02-21 15:44 < quanticle> NotACow: Refineries running below capacity? Now that's nonsense. Last I heard, American refineries were running at north of 90%, and amny were putting off maintenance (which explains the rise in refinery accidents we've been having).
2008-02-21 15:44 < quanticle> *many
2008-02-21 15:44 < NotACow> quanticle: that's the texas ones
2008-02-21 15:44 < NotACow> quanticle: i know the big one in joliet is below capacity.
2008-02-21 15:45 < bumm13> Americans *need* SUVs to commute to work and back, sheesh
2008-02-21 15:45 < NotACow> quanticle: and there's a few in northern indiana that are idled entirely.
2008-02-21 15:45 < bumm13> (optimally used with just one person as driver and no additional passengers)
2008-02-21 15:45 < quanticle> Right, because it probably doesn't have the infrastructure to bring oil in quickly enough. There's a refinery here in MN that's in that situation.
2008-02-21 15:45 < NotACow> quanticle: possibly.
2008-02-21 15:46 < quanticle> That's where Texas' pipeline infrastructure comes in handy.
2008-02-21 15:46 < Golbez> also
2008-02-21 15:46 < Golbez> we're gonna have to claim arizona and new mexico
2008-02-21 15:46 < Golbez> sorry, but that's just how it's gonna be.
2008-02-21 15:46 < Golbez> we had a territory there in the civil war, and by gum we want it back.
2008-02-21 15:47 < Golbez> but you can keep phoenix.
2008-02-21 15:47 < Golbez> or at least sky harbor. i hate that airport.
2008-02-21 15:47 < quanticle> Since when did the South claim AZ? As I recall, the Southwest was pretty solidly for the Union.
2008-02-21 15:48 < bumm13> actually, there were numerous Confederate sympathizers in the Desert Southwest
2008-02-21 15:48 < Golbez> They formed a Arizona Territory in southern AZ and NM during the war, as a land-bridge to California (which was somewhat CSA-sympathetic)
2008-02-21 15:48 < Golbez> [[Arizona Territory (CSA)]]
2008-02-21 15:48 < Doc_glasgow> Am I allowed to spam for support on a BLP related merge, or is that illegal canvassing?
2008-02-21 15:48 < Daniel_Bush> I recall half of Arizona being in the Confederacy and half in the Union
2008-02-21 15:49 < Golbez> not quite
2008-02-21 15:49 < quanticle> Really? I didn't think the Confederacy extended beyond Texas.
2008-02-21 15:49 < Golbez> the southern half of AZ and NM = CSA AZ
2008-02-21 15:49 < The359> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US_Secession_map_1865.svg
2008-02-21 15:49 < bumm13> a good number of Confederate sympathizers work in the mines in California and especially Nevada
2008-02-21 15:49 < Golbez> there was overlap between the Union and Confederate territories
2008-02-21 15:49 < bumm13> it didn't, technically
2008-02-21 15:49 < bumm13> (Arizona wasn't a state then)
2008-02-21 15:49 < Golbez> quanticle- this was an incorporated territory of the CSA
2008-02-21 15:49 < bumm13> *worked
2008-02-21 15:49 < Golbez> just as Arizona Territory and New Mexico Territry were incorporated territories of the USA
2008-02-21 15:49 < Demi> a lot of states and territories had "overlapping" sentiments
2008-02-21 15:50 < bumm13> yeah
2008-02-21 15:50 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wpdms_arizona_new_mexico_territories_1863_idx.png
2008-02-21 15:50 < bumm13> there were a handful of Civil War battles fought out West
2008-02-21 15:51 < quanticle> Right. But I thought they farthest West the actual war went was Texas...
2008-02-21 15:51 < bumm13> nope
2008-02-21 15:51 < Demi> all the military artifacts around here (cities, camps and stuff) are from the civil war
2008-02-21 15:51 < Golbez> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TRANS-MISSISSIPPI_CIVIL_WAR.svg
2008-02-21 15:51 < Demi> that is, southern oregon
2008-02-21 15:51 < bumm13> probably the furthest west for an established state
2008-02-21 15:52 < Mahlzahn> Hey Golbez. See foot of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory#categorization_.282.29
2008-02-21 15:52 < Mahlzahn> :)
2008-02-21 15:52 < bumm13> (I don't know of any related battles taking place in California)
2008-02-21 15:52 < bumm13> I know that battles took place in the territories of Colorado and New Mexico
2008-02-21 15:52 < Golbez> No, the westernmost action was...
2008-02-21 15:52 < Golbez> about 80 miles east of Yuma, AZ
2008-02-21 15:53 < bumm13> of course, all this was because the Confederacy wanted to extended from the Atlantic to the Pacific
2008-02-21 15:53 < Golbez> More to point, the CSA wanted a landbridge to California, where there were some sympathetic to their cause
2008-02-21 15:53 < bumm13> *extend
2008-02-21 15:53 < Golbez> If they could convert at least part of California to their cause, it would severely weaken the Union in the west
2008-02-21 15:54 < quanticle> True. Fortunately those plans were halted when they lost the Missippi
2008-02-21 15:54 < quanticle> Mississippi
2008-02-21 15:54 < bumm13> yeah, basically
2008-02-21 15:54 < Mahlzahn> was Calif. actively involved in the war?
2008-02-21 15:54 < Golbez> Right
2008-02-21 15:54 < Cyrius> [[Trans-Mississippi Theater of the American Civil War]]
2008-02-21 15:54 < bumm13> Mahlzahn: not heavily, no
2008-02-21 15:54 < Golbez> [[California_in_the_American_Civil_War]]
2008-02-21 15:54 < Mahlzahn> Wikipedia is awesome.
2008-02-21 15:55 < Golbez> "Though the southerners tended to favor the Confederacy, the state did not have slavery, and they were generally powerless during the war itself."
2008-02-21 15:55 < bumm13> s/heavily/actively
2008-02-21 15:55 < Golbez> and yeah, losing the Mississippi pretty much severed the western half of the conflict, creating a mere mopup job
2008-02-21 15:55 < bumm13> it's an interesting and lesser-known aspect of the Civil War, certainly
2008-02-21 15:55 < Golbez> "Northern California, which was dominated by mining, shipping, and commercial elites of San Francisco, favored becoming a state. However, some people in lightly populated, rural Southern California wanted territorial status, or at least separation from Northern California." That's cute. "Lightly populated, rural Southern California". How things change.
2008-02-21 15:55 < bumm13> (referring to Cyrius' link)
2008-02-21 15:56 < domas> Golbez: socal is still a huge rural area
2008-02-21 15:56 < domas> Golbez: with higher density
2008-02-21 15:56 < domas> LA is not a city
2008-02-21 15:56 < domas> :)
2008-02-21 15:56 < bumm13> basically, after the end of the Civil War in 1865, the U.S. became less of a north-south nation and more of an east-west one
2008-02-21 15:56 < Golbez> right
2008-02-21 15:56 < Cyrius> people weren't stupid enough to live where there was no water
2008-02-21 15:56 < Qst> It i
2008-02-21 15:56 < bumm13> domas: um, how is L.A. not a city?
2008-02-21 15:57 < quanticle> Well, back then it wasn't
2008-02-21 15:57 < domas> bumm13: its a rural area with huge density
2008-02-21 15:57 < bumm13> ah, not back then, true
2008-02-21 15:57 < domas> bumm13: have you been there?
2008-02-21 15:57 < bumm13> domas: yes
2008-02-21 15:57 < bumm13> it is not rural
2008-02-21 15:57 < domas> its a collection of villages
2008-02-21 15:57 < Golbez> los angeles is amazing sprawl, but there's a city or two in there somewhere
2008-02-21 15:57 < bumm13> that's not entirely correct
2008-02-21 15:57 < domas> :)
2008-02-21 15:57 < Golbez> personally i have a tremendous distaste for LA, much preferring San Diego.
2008-02-21 15:57 < quanticle> I used to live in LA (Riverside actually), and it definitely wasn't rural by any means.
2008-02-21 15:57 < bumm13> there is a city of Los Angeles that has a lot of people
2008-02-21 15:58 < bumm13> (with the conglomeration of cities that also surround it, of course)
2008-02-21 15:58 < Golbez> four million, give or take
2008-02-21 15:58 < Golbez> not to mention the size of the county it's in, 10 million
2008-02-21 15:58 < Mahlzahn> and all those people are so ... different.
2008-02-21 15:58 < bumm13> Hollywood is part of L.A. proper, for example
2008-02-21 15:58 < Golbez> and that's not a big county, either
2008-02-21 15:58 < bumm13> heh
2008-02-21 15:59 < Golbez> LA county is a large county but it's not humongous, certainly not worthy of a 10 million population
2008-02-21 15:59 < domas> damn, my Code of Conduct doesn't allow me trolling anymore :)
2008-02-21 15:59 < bumm13> really though, we all know that L.A. is just a bunch of freeways, concrete barrier walls, and palm trees :P
2008-02-21 15:59 < Mahlzahn> Golbez: they can only count that high because at any given time half the population is on the freeway.
2008-02-21 15:59 < The359> and hookers
2008-02-21 15:59 < Golbez> heh
2008-02-21 15:59 < bumm13> heh, no kidding
2008-02-21 16:00 < Golbez> though i can't find a "list of largest counties in the united states by area"
2008-02-21 16:00 < Golbez> we have it by population but not area
2008-02-21 16:00 < Golbez> :(
2008-02-21 16:00 < bumm13> sadly, Los Angeles used to have an extensive streetcar system
2008-02-21 16:01 < Mimsy> bumm13, indeed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Electric_Railway
2008-02-21 16:01 < Golbez> for example, LA county is 4x larger than Cook County, but with only 2x the population
2008-02-21 16:01 < Golbez> and about 3x the size of Harris County, but with 3x the population
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> wait that last one makes sense
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> nm
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> actually this just shows cook county is really crowded
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> no wonder they build so many tall buildings there
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> ignore me!
2008-02-21 16:02 < Mahlzahn> All the population density stats notwithstanding, LA still makes me nervous.
2008-02-21 16:02 < bumm13> nobody said that L.A. shouldn't make a person nervous :x
2008-02-21 16:02 < Mahlzahn> while NYC for example does not. :)
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> LA is deceptively high density
2008-02-21 16:02 < Golbez> and it's growing
2008-02-21 16:03 < bumm13> L.A. is basically a big shithole
2008-02-21 16:03 < Golbez> Southern California is just weird. It has a much, much different feel than the urban areas of the east.
2008-02-21 16:03 < bumm13> (with minor, upscale exceptions :P )
2008-02-21 16:03 < Golbez> New York seems so compact. SoCal is so sprawly.
2008-02-21 16:03 < bumm13> with poor air quality to boot
2008-02-21 16:03 < Golbez> Though some areas of the DC suburbs are starting to resemble parts of the suburban sprawl in SoCal
2008-02-21 16:04 < Golbez> Maybe it's because the east is greener that it has a different feel. More trees. Grasses. Less reliance on palm trees. =p
2008-02-21 16:04 < Miranda> hola Cestmoi
2008-02-21 16:04 < Mahlzahn> there was a song (written from an LA perspective) about how northern california is nice to visit but one shouldn't stay too long because it makes one soft. I can't remember what it was, but it was like the LA anthem I'd hear whenever I said I preferred the Bay area.
2008-02-21 16:05 < Golbez> ~the coldest winter i ever saw was the summer that i spent~
2008-02-21 16:05 < sargun_screen> Northern California is a nice place to visit.
2008-02-21 16:05 < Golbez> I love San Francisco.
2008-02-21 16:05 < sargun_screen> I do like the bay area.
2008-02-21 16:05 < Mahlzahn> yes.
2008-02-21 16:05 < Cestmoi> hola Miranda
2008-02-21 16:05 < Golbez> It was weird driving from LA to San Luis Obispo, and seeing the palm trees give way to god'
2008-02-21 16:05 < Golbez> It was weird driving from LA to San Luis Obispo, and seeing the palm trees give way to god's honest TREES. It was nice.
2008-02-21 16:06 < Cyrius> I hate the developers who plant palm trees around here
2008-02-21 16:06 < Mahlzahn> I hate the developers to wreath everything in ivy.
2008-02-21 16:07 < Golbez> I miss the color green.
2008-02-21 16:07 < sargun_screen> Ivy?
2008-02-21 16:07 < Golbez> The predominant color here has been white since mid-December.
2008-02-21 16:07 < Golbez> I'm frankly tired of it.
2008-02-21 16:07 < sargun_screen> I am a developer and I don't wreath anything with ivy!
2008-02-21 16:07 < Golbez> And i'm not just talking about the Iowa demographics. :P
2008-02-21 16:08 < bumm13> palm trees are dirty
2008-02-21 16:09 < Mahlzahn> sargun_screen: yah, purportedly it lends a flair of solidity
2008-02-21 16:11 < Mahlzahn> the homeowner's equivalent of kicking tires I guess.
2008-02-21 16:13 < sargun_screen> oh, those kind of developers...
2008-02-21 16:14 < OvrLrd-Q> DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS DEVELOPERS! *throws a chair*
2008-02-21 16:15 < Seddon> Golbez: Ill swap my green for your white
2008-02-21 16:15 < Demi> Golbez - yeah, if you like eucalyptus
2008-02-21 16:16 < Demi> "god" in this case being "australia"
2008-02-21 16:16 < Demi> but i always imagined god having a pouch
2008-02-21 16:16 < Demi> like for keeping jesus in, so i'm comfortable with that
2008-02-21 16:17 < Golbez> wow, neat, [[Liviu Librescu]] is on FAC
2008-02-21 16:19 < Demi> alaska and california together produce a lot more oil than texas, though not more than "the south"
2008-02-21 16:19 < Demi> maybe it's the west coast that needs to secede, actually
2008-02-21 16:19 < The359> we need to get our movie stars from somewhere
2008-02-21 16:19 < Demi> we can still have trade agreements
2008-02-21 16:19 < Golbez> Demi- i kind of wish they did, at least threaten it to tell the DEA to back the hell up.
2008-02-21 16:20 < Demi> yeah
2008-02-21 16:20 < Golbez> California is probably state best able to survive 100% independent.
2008-02-21 16:20 < Demi> yes
2008-02-21 16:20 < Golbez> it has fuel, food, ports, a varied landscape
2008-02-21 16:20 < Demi> it needs water
2008-02-21 16:20 < geniice> no would need to take mexico with it
2008-02-21 16:20 < Golbez> true
2008-02-21 16:21 < Golbez> but if california went independent there'd probably be some desalination plants built very quickly. =p
2008-02-21 16:21 < The359> they don't have enough electricity though
2008-02-21 16:21 < Golbez> nuclear.
2008-02-21 16:21 < The359> they have those
2008-02-21 16:21 < Golbez> HellDragon, i figure desalination will be the first practical use of fusion power if and when they get it running.
2008-02-21 16:21 < Golbez> damn it, nick complete
2008-02-21 16:21 < Golbez> heck, i figure desalination will be the first practical use of fusion power if and when they get it running.
2008-02-21 16:21 < Demi> history and the political climate discourage the building of new nuke plants in california
2008-02-21 16:22 < Demi> Golbez - really, they would buy both from oregon, or take oregon with them
2008-02-21 16:22 < The359> still not enough
2008-02-21 16:22 < mavhc> but alaska and california also have other things interesting that they do
2008-02-21 16:22 < Golbez> Demi- they'll do it when the hippies go thirsty
2008-02-21 16:22 < Demi> (which is more or less a big part of what happens now)
2008-02-21 16:22 < Golbez> Oregon would probably go with.
2008-02-21 16:22 < mavhc> fusion: what problems can't it solve?
2008-02-21 16:23 * Golbez checks.. when are they expected to make profitable fusion?
2008-02-21 16:23 < Demi> i wouldn't be surprised if the energy budget of the state could be reorganized to be more or less self-sufficient, a lot of the "energy crises" in california were governmental and pseudo-governmental artifacts
2008-02-21 16:23 < Golbez> ah, DEMO
2008-02-21 16:23 < Golbez> expected to open in 2033
2008-02-21 16:24 < mavhc> x86 is to blame for all of it, POS cpu arch
2008-02-21 16:24 < Demi> oregon is experimenting with deep ocean current power
2008-02-21 16:24 < Golbez> california has tremendous renewable energy potential, so does oregon
2008-02-21 16:24 < Golbez> tidal, wind, deep ocean
2008-02-21 16:24 < Golbez> burning hippies
2008-02-21 16:24 < Demi> hehe
2008-02-21 16:24 < Demi> oregon has the advantage of not having a lot of fucking people everywhere
2008-02-21 16:25 < Golbez> HellDragon, imagine if they could find a way to transfer earthquake energy into usable electricity
2008-02-21 16:25 < Golbez> damn it.
2008-02-21 16:25 < Golbez> i'm sorry, HellDragon =p
2008-02-21 16:25 < Demi> "HellDragon" is a good curse word, i support it
2008-02-21 16:25 < Golbez> by the hammer of thor!
2008-02-21 16:26 < Golbez> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/ imagine how much energy is in a 1.0 earthquake alone, surely they could be self-sufficient on that if they could only find a way to harness it!
2008-02-21 16:26 < Demi> i think there would be a nice axis of industry along seattle, portland, san francisco and los angeles
2008-02-21 16:26 < Golbez> that sounds very mad scientist, which means it's perfect for california
2008-02-21 16:27 < geniice> there are a number of theoretical ways to do it
2008-02-21 16:27 < Golbez> harnessing earthquakes would be somewhere around a .8 civilization, though. we're languishing around .7.
2008-02-21 16:27 < Demi> Golbez - california even has a lot of backwoods rednecks and inbred hillbillies, so it wouldn't need to import them or anything
2008-02-21 16:27 < geniice> the problem is that the the energy flow is not continious
2008-02-21 16:28 < Demi> Golbez - or maybe that's what you meant by "varied landscape"
2008-02-21 16:28 < Golbez> Demi- by that, i meant they wouldn't have a single economy
2008-02-21 16:28 < Sfan00> fusion?
2008-02-21 16:28 < Golbez> A climate change, localized drought, or economic shift wouldn't hurt them that much
2008-02-21 16:28 < Demi> yes, but they would need to smarter about resource planning
2008-02-21 16:28 < Sfan00> What type tommahawk or polywell?
2008-02-21 16:28 < Demi> stop subsidizing cheap water heavy crops for one thing
2008-02-21 16:29 < Golbez> Sfan00- tokamak
2008-02-21 16:29 < Sfan00> The on that Bussard says wouldn't work
2008-02-21 16:29 < Golbez> geniice- there are ~500 earthquakes in California in the last 7 days. three an hour, one every 20 minutes. that's pretty continuous, depending on how much energy can be siphoned from one.
2008-02-21 16:29 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-02-21 16:29 < Sfan00> Harnesing eqartquakes?
2008-02-21 16:30 < Sfan00> Isn't that Mad Scientist stuf?
2008-02-21 16:30 < Golbez> Sfan00- we'll see how well it works when ITER goes online in... 2016
2008-02-21 16:30 < Golbez> Sfan00- lol, scroll up =p
2008-02-21 16:30 < Sfan00> ITER?
2008-02-21 16:30 < Golbez> <Golbez> that sounds very mad scientist, which means it's perfect for california
2008-02-21 16:30 < geniice> Golbez you want to try storing the amount of energy in your average earthquake for 20 mins?
2008-02-21 16:30 < Demi> how is the wave power thing doing in scotland?
2008-02-21 16:30 < Demi> geniice - flywheels
2008-02-21 16:30 < Golbez> "ITER is an international tokamak (magnetic confinement fusion) research/engineering proposal for an experimental project that will help to make the transition from today's studies of plasma physics to future electricity-producing fusion power plants." ... "It is technically ready to start construction and the first plasma operation is expected in 2016."
2008-02-21 16:31 < geniice> Demi historicaly it has tended to be distoryed every few ytears
2008-02-21 16:31 < Sfan00> Hmm when's Polywell WB6 coming online?
2008-02-21 16:31 < Golbez> geniice- they'll find a solution to that around they same time they find a way to actually harness earthquakes. =p
2008-02-21 16:32 < Sfan00> Weel aren't erathquakes related to geothermal pressure anyway?
2008-02-21 16:32 < Golbez> "...the latest experimental device, WB-7, achieved "1st plasma" in early January, 2008."
2008-02-21 16:32 < Sfan00> Oh?
2008-02-21 16:32 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-21 16:32 < Sfan00> Theymust have got funding then :)
2008-02-21 16:32 < geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Scotland#Wave_power
2008-02-21 16:33 < Golbez> yep: "In August 2007, EMC2 received a $2 million U.S. Navy research contract to continue the reactor development."
2008-02-21 16:33 < Demi> harnessing earthquakes for power probably means controlling them
2008-02-21 16:33 * Sfan00 cues up a whole list of mad scientist expressions...
2008-02-21 16:34 < Golbez> what about mohorovicic power
2008-02-21 16:35 < Demi> that always seemed like it should be promising
2008-02-21 16:35 < Golbez> we just have to dig a hole deep enough
2008-02-21 16:35 < Demi> oh wait, i was thinking of the wrong discontinuity
2008-02-21 16:35 < Golbez> which were you thinking
2008-02-21 16:36 < Demi> oceanic thermoclines
2008-02-21 16:36 < Golbez> hm
2008-02-21 16:37 < Golbez> i think we simply should move towards more distributed power generation
2008-02-21 16:37 < Golbez> with single large plans for single large applications
2008-02-21 16:37 < domas> yes, and route electricity in packets!
2008-02-21 16:37 < Golbez> like the aforementioned desalination plant, or a steel plant, or what not
2008-02-21 16:37 < domas> thats how we switched from telcos to the internets
2008-02-21 16:37 < Golbez> i say this as the most capitalist bastard you'll find =p
2008-02-21 16:37 < Golbez> and i say the most profitable method is distributed power! =p
2008-02-21 16:38 < Sfan00> Golbez: You mean local generation?
2008-02-21 16:38 < Golbez> everyone with a solar cell roof, a tidal generator on every coastline, a wind turbine on every hill
2008-02-21 16:38 < Golbez> Yeah
2008-02-21 16:38 < Golbez> Instead of large point production, thousands of tiny point producers
2008-02-21 16:38 < Golbez> Sell your excess to the network, and draw excess from it as needed.
2008-02-21 16:38 < Sfan00> Acoridng to something read about polywell- one source claimed they would be able to power a small town on a reactor the size of a current local substation :O
2008-02-21 16:39 < domas> how to deal with overproduction? how to deal with underproduction?
2008-02-21 16:39 < geniice> Golbez been tried
2008-02-21 16:39 < domas> who is willing to pay for balancing?
2008-02-21 16:39 < Sfan00> The Grid provider?
2008-02-21 16:39 < geniice> Golbez the resulting mess was why most people switiched to centeralisation
2008-02-21 16:39 < Demi> Golbez actually just wants ernest borgnine to ride an exercycle for power
2008-02-21 16:39 < Cyrius> "Superdelegate schmoozed by Chelsea backs Obama"
2008-02-21 16:39 < Cyrius> hehe
2008-02-21 16:39 < Golbez> geniice- when was it tried?
2008-02-21 16:40 < geniice> Golbez before we built all the big power plants
2008-02-21 16:40 < Golbez> right
2008-02-21 16:40 < Golbez> we have better ideas, methods, and technologies now
2008-02-21 16:40 < domas> Sfan00: so the grid still has to exist
2008-02-21 16:40 < Cyrius> the reason we have centralized power generation is because heat engines get more efficient as they get larger
2008-02-21 16:40 < Demi> we should do away with the electricity grid
2008-02-21 16:40 < Golbez> it's time for another attempt!
2008-02-21 16:40 < Demi> and everyone just gets high-pressure steam
2008-02-21 16:40 < geniice> factories would build small powerplants an sell the excess to the locals
2008-02-21 16:40 < domas> Demi: ;-D
2008-02-21 16:40 < Golbez> geniice- well that part makes sense, yeah
2008-02-21 16:40 < Sfan00> Demi: Via the tubes?
2008-02-21 16:40 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-02-21 16:40 < Demi> yes
2008-02-21 16:40 < Demi> tubes
2008-02-21 16:40 < geniice> except as I said it didn't work
2008-02-21 16:40 < domas> geniice: some are doing that
2008-02-21 16:40 < Demi> actually high-pressure grid would be awesome
2008-02-21 16:41 < Cyrius> and hydro requires access to a limited number of suitable locations
2008-02-21 16:41 < Golbez> it's so weird that we still produce power in the same old way
2008-02-21 16:41 < Golbez> no matter what high-tech methods we come up with
2008-02-21 16:41 < Golbez> in the end, all they're used for is to boil water.
2008-02-21 16:41 < geniice> domas used to be normal but as I said it didn't work out too well
2008-02-21 16:41 < Demi> well, the heat-based ones
2008-02-21 16:41 < Sfan00> Well a steam cycle is about 30% effecint is it not?
2008-02-21 16:41 < Demi> hydroelectric doesn't work that
2008-02-21 16:41 < Demi> way
2008-02-21 16:41 < Sfan00> CH is one posisbility though
2008-02-21 16:41 < Sfan00> *CHP
2008-02-21 16:42 < Sfan00> which gets more effciency out of an infrstructure
2008-02-21 16:42 < Demi> it does seem like we should be able to come up with materials that just make electricity when they're hot on one side and cold on the other. like mcdonald's McDLT
2008-02-21 16:42 < Golbez> i wonder if there is some sweet spot in price so that it would be profitable to set up wind turbines on the gulf coast in the path of a hurricane? harness that energy! sure, they'll be destroyed but make them cheap and big enough and you could come away with a tidy profit
2008-02-21 16:42 < domas> Sfan00: seems low
2008-02-21 16:42 < Cyrius> Golbez: running the cables would be the hard part
2008-02-21 16:43 < Demi> Golbez - just get some unemployed people to scour the ruined beaches for batteries afterwards
2008-02-21 16:43 < Cyrius> you'd be better off building a permanent offshore array that could handle hurricanes
2008-02-21 16:43 < Demi> i save power by running my laptop on battery power for part of the day
2008-02-21 16:43 < Sfan00> Demi: Isn't looting illegal in the US?
2008-02-21 16:43 < domas> heh, generator efficiency = 95%?
2008-02-21 16:43 < Golbez> Cyrius- either way, that's a lot of energy we could be grabbing
2008-02-21 16:43 < domas> ' Fuel-to-electric efficiencies typically range from 75 - 90%, whereas U.S. electric grid achieves just 33%. '
2008-02-21 16:44 < Cyrius> Golbez: not really worth it though
2008-02-21 16:44 < Demi> Sfan00 - i'm suggesting that as a mechanism for recovering golbez's windfall of power
2008-02-21 16:44 < Cyrius> we can't exactly store electricity efficiently in large quantities
2008-02-21 16:44 < domas> Cyrius: hydroaccumulative stations?
2008-02-21 16:44 < domas> Cyrius: we have one here
2008-02-21 16:44 < Demi> the batteries can just be sealed flywheels, those will get fast in the hurricane
2008-02-21 16:44 < Golbez> what's that?
2008-02-21 16:45 < Cyrius> domas: not many places you can build those
2008-02-21 16:45 < Demi> Golbez - use power to pump water up
2008-02-21 16:45 < domas> its a big reservoir
2008-02-21 16:45 < Demi> thus storing it
2008-02-21 16:45 < Golbez> ahh
2008-02-21 16:45 < Cyrius> especially near where hurricanes hit
2008-02-21 16:45 < domas> Cyrius: why?
2008-02-21 16:45 < Demi> actually, you could accumulate the tidal surge in shoreline lagoons, and then generate power by letting it back out
2008-02-21 16:45 < domas> Cyrius: people build huge swimming pools - this is smaller investment
2008-02-21 16:45 < Demi> maybe golbez isn't so crazy
2008-02-21 16:45 < Cyrius> because the southern and eastern coastline of the US is generally flat
2008-02-21 16:45 < Golbez> Demi- :d
2008-02-21 16:45 < Golbez> :D
2008-02-21 16:46 < domas> Cyrius: people build pools
2008-02-21 16:46 < Demi> a storm surge of 10 feet of water along a thousand miles of coastline is a lot of potential energy
2008-02-21 16:46 < domas> Cyrius: http://www.kruoniohae.lt/en
2008-02-21 16:46 < Golbez> that's another method - move some wave power generators in the path of the hurricane, grab the energy of the storm surge!
2008-02-21 16:46 < Cyrius> domas: for a swimming pool you dig a hole in the ground
2008-02-21 16:46 < Golbez> yes
2008-02-21 16:46 < Golbez> exactly
2008-02-21 16:46 < Cyrius> you don't try to elevate the water
2008-02-21 16:46 < Golbez> we need to look at all the various energy sources the planet gives us!
2008-02-21 16:47 < Demi> Golbez - i mean rather than having some kind of spinning turbine generate electricity for half a day, if you used the storm surge to fill reservoirs it does seem like you could recover a lot of power that way
2008-02-21 16:47 < domas> Cyrius: and http://www.kruoniohae.lt/en/main/activity
2008-02-21 16:47 < Cyrius> domas: I understand the concept
2008-02-21 16:47 < Cyrius> I am saying the geography is unsuitable
2008-02-21 16:47 < Golbez> Demi- that could work too; the only problem is knowing where to install these
2008-02-21 16:47 < Golbez> unless you did it along the whole coastline
2008-02-21 16:47 < Demi> Golbez - everywhere of course
2008-02-21 16:47 < Golbez> which is prohibitively expensive
2008-02-21 16:47 < domas> Cyrius: it doesn't have to be _very_ flat, and elevating water isn't difficult
2008-02-21 16:47 < domas> Cyrius: you just build a tall border :)
2008-02-21 16:47 < Demi> it's just a lot of concrete and manual labor--what, we have a shortage of people on the earth now?
2008-02-21 16:48 < Cyrius> domas: I am saying the coastline is _very_ flat
2008-02-21 16:48 < domas> Cyrius: I'm not offering it at coastline
2008-02-21 16:48 < Cyrius> there's nowhere to elevate to
2008-02-21 16:48 < domas> Cyrius: rivers work too :)
2008-02-21 16:48 < Cyrius> it's very flat for a hundred miles inland
2008-02-21 16:48 < Golbez> there's so much energy, not just solar-based (wind) and lunar-based (tidal), but terra-based. we've only ever collected resources from the top few miles of the earth, there's a lot more where that came from. effortless energy, so long as we can build the 75 mile pipe. =p
2008-02-21 16:48 < domas> mmm, I wonder what that 'very flat' is, and what requirements are for such station
2008-02-21 16:48 < Demi> build fifteen foot high concrete bunkers with baffle tops
2008-02-21 16:49 < Demi> so watter runs in but not out
2008-02-21 16:49 < domas> okok, this is 50m
2008-02-21 16:49 < Demi> when a storm happens, they get inundated, then you let the water run out and past generators
2008-02-21 16:51 < Golbez> and then we have things like volcanic energy!
2008-02-21 16:51 < Golbez> the big island of hawaii could be our middle east!
2008-02-21 16:51 < Cyrius> domas: I'm on the US Gulf of Mexico coastline, some 50 km inland and 10m above seea level
2008-02-21 16:51 < Demi> Powered By Yellowstone (tm)
2008-02-21 16:51 < Cyrius> it is very flat
2008-02-21 16:51 < Cyrius> nowhere to lift water to
2008-02-21 16:51 < Golbez> Demi- haha
2008-02-21 16:51 < domas> mhm
2008-02-21 16:52 < Golbez> uh oh
2008-02-21 16:53 < Golbez> Apple: Serbian radio reporting a charred body found in US embassy in Belgrade
2008-02-21 16:53 < Golbez> AP/CNN:, there. =p
2008-02-21 16:53 < Demi> :(
2008-02-21 16:53 < OvrLrd-Q> Err wha
2008-02-21 16:53 < The359> protest?
2008-02-21 16:53 < Golbez> Serbians broke in to the embassy and set it on fire
2008-02-21 16:53 < Golbez> Serbian radio now reporting a body has been found
2008-02-21 16:53 < Golbez> even though the embassy was supposed to be empty
2008-02-21 16:54 < Demi> serbian yahoos or "official" serbians?
2008-02-21 16:54 < OvrLrd-Q> probably one of the rioters
2008-02-21 16:54 < Golbez> yahoos in the embassy, official radio
2008-02-21 16:56 < The359> hmmm
2008-02-21 16:56 < The359> John Kerry's chopper had to make an emergency landing in Afghanistan
2008-02-21 16:56 < Monobi> Hooray!
2008-02-21 16:56 < The359> with Joe Biden and Chuck Hagen
2008-02-21 16:56 < Monobi> Oh, I thought you said "crash" landing...
2008-02-21 16:56 < White_Cat> The359 really?
2008-02-21 16:56 < White_Cat> why was he in afganistan?
2008-02-21 16:56 < White_Cat> is he running for presidency there?
2008-02-21 16:57 < White_Cat> I dont think the afgans are that desperate
2008-02-21 16:57 < White_Cat> theyd rather elect taliban
2008-02-21 16:57 < Golbez> Monobi- hurr
2008-02-21 16:57 < Monobi> hurr ?
2008-02-21 16:57 < White_Cat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEYB_7F0Xrg
2008-02-21 16:59 < Golbez> cheering because you thought he might have died? that's pretty poor taste
2008-02-21 17:00 < The359> people don't necessarily die in crashes ;)
2008-02-21 17:00 < Sfan00> re US embassy in serbia :(
2008-02-21 17:00 < Sfan00> You don't get out of torching an embassy lightly
2008-02-21 17:00 < Sfan00> :(
2008-02-21 17:01 < Demi> if it was some mob, what are you really going to do?
2008-02-21 17:01 < Golbez> US state department confirming body found
2008-02-21 17:01 < The359> apparently it was 200,000 protesting in Belgrade
2008-02-21 17:02 < Sfan00> Well hoepfully the serbian authorites will come done hard on the mob
2008-02-21 17:02 < The359> but not sure how many attacked the embassy
2008-02-21 17:02 < Sfan00> *hopefully
2008-02-21 17:02 < The359> Reuters seems to claim that other embassies nearby were also attacked
2008-02-21 17:02 < Demi> Golbez - any notion of who it could be?
2008-02-21 17:02 < Golbez> Demi- no
2008-02-21 17:03 < Demi> this is the channel for financial advice, right? what's a small investment that i could make that keeps my funds liquid, has no risk and high rate of return?
2008-02-21 17:03 < The359> invest in Wikipedia
2008-02-21 17:04 * Demi yells, "Buy 100 shares of ENWP!"
2008-02-21 17:04 < domas> ;-D
2008-02-21 17:04 < domas> I wonder if WIKI ticker is free
2008-02-21 17:04 < Sfan00> Demi: Mutal Funds? ;)
2008-02-21 17:04 < _sj_> quick before they change the name
2008-02-21 17:04 < _sj_> domas, where are you now?
2008-02-21 17:04 < domas> _sj_: home
2008-02-21 17:04 < Sfan00> Actually - can you invest in Wikkia?
2008-02-21 17:04 < Demi> Sfan00 - there's often some kind of penalty for not holding a position for a certain amount of time
2008-02-21 17:04 < _sj_> golbez, hopefully noone we know
2008-02-21 17:04 < _sj_> Sfan00, you mean wikkkia?
2008-02-21 17:05 < Sfan00> no
2008-02-21 17:05 < Demi> not always, though; and they aren't risk-free
2008-02-21 17:05 < Demi> i don't know, i'm a financial newb
2008-02-21 17:05 < Sfan00> I mean the wiki that isn't Wikipedia
2008-02-21 17:05 < Sfan00> Demi: Try asking on ##finance
2008-02-21 17:05 < Demi> yeah yeah
2008-02-21 17:05 < Demi> i'll read bob brinker or something
2008-02-21 17:09 < NovaDog> 1 + 1 = ???
2008-02-21 17:10 < MrZ-man> 7
2008-02-21 17:10 < gwern> anyone watching the democractic debate tonight?
2008-02-21 17:10 < Golbez> http://aycu20.webshots.com/image/43259/2003118533818187460_rs.jpg my that's a big building
2008-02-21 17:11 < Demi> Golbez - that city has nothing to worry about in the locker room
2008-02-21 17:11 < Golbez> lol
2008-02-21 17:11 < Golbez> it's almost done :o
2008-02-21 17:11 < MrZ-man> Demi: it doesn't appear that Wikia is publicly traded
2008-02-21 17:11 < The359> I can't help but notice there's a Subway in the foreground
2008-02-21 17:12 < Golbez> The359 lol
2008-02-21 17:12 < Golbez> good eye, haha
2008-02-21 17:12 < Golbez> globalization!
2008-02-21 17:12 < The359> looks like the have the logo in English and in Arabic
2008-02-21 17:12 < Demi> MrZ-man - ah well
2008-02-21 17:12 < Golbez> the glass cladding, by the way, is only up to about the 96th floor
2008-02-21 17:12 < Golbez> if that gives some perspective of how big the building is
2008-02-21 17:12 < MrZ-man> I can't even find it on Google Finance
2008-02-21 17:13 < MrZ-man> but they do have WMF http://finance.google.com/finance?cid=1668579
2008-02-21 17:13 < The359> if that shit ever fell, I can't help but think it'd take out a shitload of other buildings
2008-02-21 17:13 < The359> even if it pancakged
2008-02-21 17:13 < Golbez> yup
2008-02-21 17:14 < The359> I wonder what the giant flat structure in the foreground of the skyscrapers is
2008-02-21 17:14 < The359> mall?
2008-02-21 17:14 < Golbez> http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/43624/2000051132168568164_rs.jpg
2008-02-21 17:14 < Golbez> yes, i believe that's going to be the Mall of Arabia
2008-02-21 17:14 < Golbez> correction, the Dubai Mall
2008-02-21 17:14 < Golbez> either way, it will be the world's largest mall
2008-02-21 17:14 < Demi> Golbez - that pool thing looks interesting
2008-02-21 17:14 < MrZ-man> they have an indoor ski hill as well
2008-02-21 17:14 < OvrLrd-Q> rich assholes, wish I had $14m to blow on a license plate
2008-02-21 17:15 * The359 wonders where the Dubai Autodrome is in relation to this
2008-02-21 17:15 < Golbez> the burj dubai is surrounded by all sorts of projects
2008-02-21 17:16 < The359> the Autodrome is already complete
2008-02-21 17:16 < MrZ-man> http://www.skidxb.com/English/facts_eng.htm?mid=1&sid=2
2008-02-21 17:16 < Golbez> In the second picture, the Mall is behind the tower
2008-02-21 17:16 < The359> but I know it's near all kinds of construction
2008-02-21 17:16 < Golbez> because here's what it looks like FROM the tower: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dubai_Mall_Under_Construction_on_27_November_2007.jpg
2008-02-21 17:16 < The359> how's Dubai doing on human rights lately?
2008-02-21 17:17 < Demi> The359 - they've finishe stuffing the foundations of all these buildings with filipino guest workers, so they're doing better
2008-02-21 17:17 < The359> or all of the UAE for that matter
2008-02-21 17:17 < mavhc> they're heard of it
2008-02-21 17:17 < mavhc> they've
2008-02-21 17:17 < Golbez> dunno
2008-02-21 17:17 < Golbez> trying to figure out how tall the burj is now
2008-02-21 17:18 < Golbez> http://i26.tinypic.com/2d3y8j.jpg just damn. cladding up to floor 96.
2008-02-21 17:18 < The359> "The UAE also does not allow individuals past retirement age to stay within the country without a job. Upon retirement, residents must return to their country of origin."
2008-02-21 17:18 < The359> wtf?
2008-02-21 17:18 < Golbez> ah
2008-02-21 17:18 < Golbez> they're up to the 158th floor
2008-02-21 17:18 < Golbez> which is about 605m
2008-02-21 17:19 < The359> what's with the gaps in some of the glassed sections?
2008-02-21 17:19 < The359> different kind of glass?
2008-02-21 17:19 < Golbez> those are mechanical floors, they'll clad those later
2008-02-21 17:21 < Golbez> i wonder when they'll reach the structural height
2008-02-21 17:21 < Golbez> expected to be somewhere around another 214m =p
2008-02-21 17:21 < MrZ-man> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/be/Burj_Dubai.jpg
2008-02-21 17:22 < Golbez> yup
2008-02-21 17:22 < Demi> they should have kept it the same width all the way to the top, it would have looked better
2008-02-21 17:22 < Golbez> just like on Sears, the mechanical floors are quite visible