freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-18 04:37 < TroubleClef> I think anyone who'd go to Wiki and think "Huff! What entirely unencyclopedic and frivolous material!" about Pokemon articles would think the same about Simpson's episode articles.
2008-02-18 04:37 < zvook> it is somewhat related
2008-02-18 04:37 < White_Cat> TroubleClef thats really a flawed approach
2008-02-18 04:38 < White_Cat> because you are contributing to the problem
2008-02-18 04:38 < White_Cat> my god people want to write about every pokemon episode/species/character? Let them!
2008-02-18 04:38 < TroubleClef> Why not?
2008-02-18 04:38 < White_Cat> my god people want to write about every simpsons episode/character? Let them!
2008-02-18 04:38 < ggreer`> yes let them, on the pokemon wiki
2008-02-18 04:38 < ggreer`> not on wikipedia
2008-02-18 04:38 < jerkface03> why not on wikipedia?
2008-02-18 04:38 < White_Cat> ggreer there is no such thing as a pokemon wiki
2008-02-18 04:38 < jerkface03> pokemon are notable
2008-02-18 04:38 < jerkface03> notable content
2008-02-18 04:38 < ggreer`> otherwise wikipedia will become WoWwiki
2008-02-18 04:39 < ggreer`> no, pokemon are not notable.
2008-02-18 04:39 < White_Cat> ggreer Jimy wales the founder of wikipedia explained this pretty well
2008-02-18 04:39 < ggreer`> also high schools are not notable
2008-02-18 04:39 < jerkface03> yes they are. yes they are.
2008-02-18 04:39 < White_Cat> in the case of puppets
2008-02-18 04:39 < ggreer`> White_Cat: yeah, jimbo is an inclusionist
2008-02-18 04:39 < White_Cat> the muppet wiki has well over 35,000 articles
2008-02-18 04:39 < zvook> it's stupid to suggest that pikachu isn't notable
2008-02-18 04:39 < zvook> that's just IDONTLIKEIT
2008-02-18 04:39 < ggreer`> but projects like wikipedia shouldn't have a benevolent dictator
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> they are only and only concerned about everything that has to do with muppets
2008-02-18 04:40 < ggreer`> look at the apache foundation. they do great things and they have no single person like linus or jimbo
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> so if Kermit appears on a ord commercial they create an article on it
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> from kermits perspective
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> or something
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> ggreer start your own site
2008-02-18 04:40 < White_Cat> we like our jimbo
2008-02-18 04:40 * White_Cat cuddles
2008-02-18 04:41 < ggreer`> I really wish wikipedia had basic articles for obscure stuff, then linked to the random wiki devoted to that obscure thing
2008-02-18 04:41 < ggreer`> le sigh
2008-02-18 04:41 < White_Cat> thats called google
2008-02-18 04:41 * Mike_H NP: Billy Joel - The Longest Time (1984)
2008-02-18 04:42 < ggreer`> White_Cat: google just links to wikipedia :P
2008-02-18 04:42 < ggreer`> I do like the fact that more and more people are figuring out how easy it is to start a specific wiki
2008-02-18 04:42 < White_Cat> add -anime -fiction to your google searches
2008-02-18 04:42 < White_Cat> and you are done
2008-02-18 04:42 < zvook> sup Mike_H
2008-02-18 04:42 < ggreer`> for example: http://faq.ninja250.org/wiki/
2008-02-18 04:42 < ggreer`> a wiki devoted to the kawasaki ninja 250
2008-02-18 04:42 < ggreer`> pretty specific, but a great resource if you're looking at buying one
2008-02-18 04:43 < ggreer`> obviously that stuff doesn't belong on wikipedia, but it's useful information for quite a few people
2008-02-18 04:43 < zvook> competes with wikia ;)
2008-02-18 04:43 < White_Cat> wikia isnt an alternative to wikipedia
2008-02-18 04:43 < ggreer`> but when you suggest that maybe every episode of lost shouldn't get summarized on wikipedia, people get angry
2008-02-18 04:44 < White_Cat> If people are willing to write it, why are we in the way?
2008-02-18 04:44 < White_Cat> instead of fighting fiction people should spend their energy more productively
2008-02-18 04:44 < ggreer`> White_Cat: because we're supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a trivia site?
2008-02-18 04:44 < White_Cat> ggreer trivia is welcome
2008-02-18 04:44 < White_Cat> trivia sections are not
2008-02-18 04:45 < White_Cat> ww2 is just trivia
2008-02-18 04:45 < White_Cat> germans did this
2008-02-18 04:45 < White_Cat> usians did that
2008-02-18 04:45 < White_Cat> etc etc
2008-02-18 04:45 < zvook> also, if an article isn't notable, there will not be good sources for an article, people will add stuff anyway, the article will be completely dubious, the project devalues
2008-02-18 04:45 < ggreer`> I would say battles in WWII are more notable than an episode of arrested development
2008-02-18 04:45 < ggreer`> zvook: exactly
2008-02-18 04:45 < White_Cat> ggreer so which one do you think is visited more
2008-02-18 04:45 < ggreer`> although arrested development is a very good show
2008-02-18 04:46 < White_Cat> [[Naruto]]
2008-02-18 04:46 < White_Cat> or [[World War II]]
2008-02-18 04:46 < TroubleClef> zvook: {{fact}}?
2008-02-18 04:46 < ggreer`> White_Cat: that just shows that people like popular culture more than history
2008-02-18 04:46 < White_Cat> ggreer ah! and how do we define notability?
2008-02-18 04:46 < ggreer`> White_Cat: in 10 years naruto will be forgotten and WWII will still be taught to every high schooler
2008-02-18 04:47 < White_Cat> not quite
2008-02-18 04:47 < White_Cat> sailor moon is still popular
2008-02-18 04:47 < White_Cat> despite the fact that series died over 10 years ago
2008-02-18 04:47 < zvook> TroubleClef {inmyopiniondoesyoursreallydiffer?}
2008-02-18 04:47 < ggreer`> White_Cat: ok, give it 50 years
2008-02-18 04:47 < White_Cat> we dont write articles from a 50 year perspective
2008-02-18 04:48 < White_Cat> who cares about the 6th president of the US
2008-02-18 04:48 < ggreer`> well we should. we're supposed to be an encyclopedia
2008-02-18 04:48 < Luna-San> Wikipedia definitely has a good bit of recentism.
2008-02-18 04:48 < zvook> TroubleClef it's not opinion, the article is dubious by definition if it it uncited
2008-02-18 04:48 < White_Cat> ggreer 9/11 is insignificant then
2008-02-18 04:48 < ggreer`> I'm sure the only use of atomic weapons in war is more notable than some poorly-drawn japanimation
2008-02-18 04:48 < White_Cat> ggreer well you see
2008-02-18 04:48 < Luna-San> Nah, 9/11 will likely be remembered as a political watershed event for some time, now.
2008-02-18 04:48 < TroubleClef> I meant "You can spam {{fact}} all over unsourced articles."
2008-02-18 04:49 < White_Cat> the nuclear bombing of japan lead to the creation of anime
2008-02-18 04:49 < zvook> oh right, sorry trouble :)
2008-02-18 04:49 < zvook> lolz
2008-02-18 04:49 < White_Cat> Luna-San in 50 years?
2008-02-18 04:49 < White_Cat> I think not
2008-02-18 04:49 < ggreer`> White_Cat: I'm pretty sure 9/11 will never be forgotten as long as rudy guiliani is still alive :)
2008-02-18 04:49 < Luna-San> White_Cat: Tell that to Pearl Harbor. :p
2008-02-18 04:49 < ggreer`> that guy's vocabulary consists of three words: terror, nine, and eleven
2008-02-18 04:49 < White_Cat> ggreer he will die in 9 11 2011
2008-02-18 04:49 < zvook> trouble, and then you wait a while and then you delete?
2008-02-18 04:49 < ggreer`> heh
2008-02-18 04:50 < White_Cat> Notable (adjective): worthy of note or notice; noteworthy
2008-02-18 04:50 < ggreer`> that's not a very useful definition
2008-02-18 04:50 < White_Cat> its the dictionary definition
2008-02-18 04:50 < Luna-San> Notable (adjective): is notable
2008-02-18 04:51 < ggreer`> kind of like when you look up "undefinable" words in the dictionary (time or who, for example)
2008-02-18 04:51 < TroubleClef> zvook: Right. There are enough deletionists to clear out most of the junk.
2008-02-18 04:51 < TroubleClef> The insensible quivering of the soul!
2008-02-18 04:51 < White_Cat> notable (adj): Worthy of note or notice; remarkable
2008-02-18 04:51 < White_Cat> American Heritage Dictionary
2008-02-18 04:51 < bridezilla> Hummer: "A slang word for a classical music composer who cannot read or write music and relies on others to transcribe and orchestrate his or her music" <-- WHAT?! What do you do then? Hum the songs? Dum, dum, duuu, du-du-dum! Da-da-di-dooo-da-da-la-duuuuuuuuuu!
2008-02-18 04:51 * brown_cat screams at White_Cat
2008-02-18 04:51 < ggreer`> hah
2008-02-18 04:51 < bridezilla> I cannot believe one such job exists.
2008-02-18 04:51 < zvook> White_Cat we have a page specifically on what notabily means in our context
2008-02-18 04:52 < ggreer`> bridezilla: the guy who wrote babylon 5 does that
2008-02-18 04:52 < TroubleClef> Holy crap, that's actually a job?
2008-02-18 04:52 < zvook> dictionary defs are redundant
2008-02-18 04:52 < TroubleClef> I could definitely do that.
2008-02-18 04:52 < White_Cat> zvook and it was revised by the TTN cabal
2008-02-18 04:52 < Luna-San> bridezilla: That's probably more jargon than slang, I'd say
2008-02-18 04:52 < bridezilla> ggreer: I have no idea what that is. Really? How did the get that job?
2008-02-18 04:52 < ggreer`> he made some songs but didn't know music, so he had to hum the tunes
2008-02-18 04:52 < White_Cat> w/o discussion
2008-02-18 04:52 < zvook> oh ok well
2008-02-18 04:52 < ggreer`> bridezilla: well his main job was to write episodes of a sci-fi TV show
2008-02-18 04:52 < ggreer`> and he wanted some occasional songs in there as well
2008-02-18 04:52 < ggreer`> he wrote the lyrics too
2008-02-18 04:52 < White_Cat> ggreer why do you want wikipedia to be a britanica?
2008-02-18 04:52 < bridezilla> So he would... make noises with his mouth to simulate instruments?
2008-02-18 04:53 < bridezilla> And then they would write it down properly?
2008-02-18 04:53 < zvook> bridezilla: the composer could play it on an instrument, per that definition
2008-02-18 04:53 < ggreer`> White_Cat: because then people might actually consider it a definitive source of information, as opposed to a place to get references
2008-02-18 04:53 < White_Cat> ggreer why should we even try to write an encyclopedia if irs not going to be any different from britanica?
2008-02-18 04:53 < ggreer`> bridezilla: yep
2008-02-18 04:53 < bridezilla> Hrm. You can play an instrument without knowing how to read or write music notes?
2008-02-18 04:53 < White_Cat> "When in doubt look it up" was the slogan of britanica
2008-02-18 04:53 < ggreer`> White_Cat: it would be much better than britannica
2008-02-18 04:53 < TroubleClef> bridezilla: Easily.
2008-02-18 04:53 < zvook> bridezilla: yes, exactly
2008-02-18 04:53 < ggreer`> bridezilla: yes, my dad can't read music but he plays guitar and violin pretty well
2008-02-18 04:54 < ggreer`> for guitar you just need to know tabs
2008-02-18 04:54 < ggreer`> violin is a little trickier
2008-02-18 04:54 < zvook> "hummer" is probably just a tongue in cheek expression
2008-02-18 04:54 < zvook> nudge nudge wink wink
2008-02-18 04:54 < bridezilla> Why does Humbert Humbert call himself "Humbert the Hummer" at one page in the book Lolita then?
2008-02-18 04:55 < zvook> let me call nabokov
2008-02-18 04:55 < zvook> White_Cat, we can cover a wider range of things than brittanica without having to resort to dreaming stuff up ourselves
2008-02-18 04:55 < bridezilla> Apparently, he died in 1977.
2008-02-18 04:56 < zvook> drat, you're out of luck then bride :)
2008-02-18 04:56 < White_Cat> zvook precisely
2008-02-18 04:56 < White_Cat> and I dont see why we should self ban ourselves from doing so
2008-02-18 04:56 < zvook> if the sources aren't there, cat, they aren't there
2008-02-18 04:56 < White_Cat> people who do not want to show tollerance to topics they do not care/like about have no business working on this project
2008-02-18 04:57 < bridezilla> Me is agreed.
2008-02-18 04:57 * brown_cat gives back bridezilla's / key
2008-02-18 04:58 * bridezilla throws it away into a lake.
2008-02-18 04:58 < bridezilla> :[
2008-02-18 04:58 < bridezilla> Shopping time.
2008-02-18 05:01 < White_Cat> zvook the problem is
2008-02-18 05:01 < White_Cat> harvard wont ever publish material on pokemon
2008-02-18 05:01 < White_Cat> but pokemon corp will
2008-02-18 05:03 < zvook> that's only a problem for you
2008-02-18 05:04 < zvook> popular culture will get covered seriously if it is important enough.
2008-02-18 05:04 < White_Cat> zvook what you are saying endorses TTN
2008-02-18 05:04 < White_Cat> furthermore contradicts jimbo
2008-02-18 05:04 < zvook> to an extent
2008-02-18 05:04 < White_Cat> universal notability is a mistake
2008-02-18 05:04 < ggreer`> *gasp* contradicts jimbo?
2008-02-18 05:06 < White_Cat> can ggreer be banned?
2008-02-18 05:06 < Miranda> White_Cat: /ignore works well too
2008-02-18 05:06 < zvook> WHO SAID THAT
2008-02-18 05:07 < ggreer`> hmm?
2008-02-18 05:07 < ggreer`> White_Cat: I'm guessing you're cool_cat?
2008-02-18 05:07 < zvook> dingding
2008-02-18 05:07 < TroubleClef> There's a cool_cat?
2008-02-18 05:07 < White_Cat> ggreer I am guessing you are a troll
2008-02-18 05:07 < TroubleClef> Cats!
2008-02-18 05:07 < zvook> oh come on, calm down White_Cat
2008-02-18 05:08 < ggreer`> no, I'm just pointing out that wikipedia doesn't belong to any one person
2008-02-18 05:08 < ggreer`> if it did it would be unworkable
2008-02-18 05:08 < White_Cat> wikipedia is mine
2008-02-18 05:08 < zvook> hehe
2008-02-18 05:08 < White_Cat> it will all be mine!
2008-02-18 05:08 * brown_cat_ threatens TroubleClef and zvook and ggreer' - don't piss off White_Cat >:(
2008-02-18 05:08 < ggreer`> White_Cat: I think you remember me as AngryParsley
2008-02-18 05:09 < White_Cat> yes
2008-02-18 05:09 < White_Cat> troll
2008-02-18 05:09 < AnnoyingNick> god I love [[The Chaser]]
2008-02-18 05:09 < TroubleClef> brown_cat: I support your white cousin as far as the individual Pokemon article matter goes.
2008-02-18 05:10 < AnnoyingNick> some dummy headlines: "Enfield denies putting 1 in Hansen's box", "Ancient Egyptians implicated in pyramid scheme", "Home school shooting kills one"
2008-02-18 05:10 < White_Cat> TroubleClef I dont think individual character articles is a good practice
2008-02-18 05:10 < White_Cat> I would support a per-family article strucutre
2008-02-18 05:10 < brown_cat> AnnoyingNick: I love them too :D
2008-02-18 05:10 < ggreer`> I guess "troll" now means "I disagree with this person"
2008-02-18 05:10 < White_Cat> the pikachu family for example
2008-02-18 05:10 < ggreer`> AnnoyingNick: the last one is the best
2008-02-18 05:10 < White_Cat> thats 3 articles merged
2008-02-18 05:10 * AnnoyingNick flees from discussion about episodes articles, must maintain neutrality.
2008-02-18 05:10 < TroubleClef> ggreer`: It's always meant that.
2008-02-18 05:11 < White_Cat> ggreer no you are a self admitted troll
2008-02-18 05:11 < White_Cat> dont you "disagree" me
2008-02-18 05:11 < TroubleClef> I'm a troll!
2008-02-18 05:11 < TroubleClef> I just don't usually do it here.
2008-02-18 05:11 < ggreer`> TroubleClef: no, I'm spartacus!
2008-02-18 05:11 < Lycurgus> <- the "touche" troll.
2008-02-18 05:12 < AnnoyingNick> Rinn: still moving about cyberspace, apparently :)
2008-02-18 05:13 < Rinn> I never stop!
2008-02-18 05:13 < ggreer`> White_Cat: well I would "troll" more, but it is late and my arms are sore. manuvering a motorcycle at low speed is annoyingly difficult
2008-02-18 05:14 < ggreer`> but now I'm $27 away from my M1 endorsement
2008-02-18 05:14 < Rinn> Unless I have to go to the bathroom.
2008-02-18 05:14 < Rinn> I should really make my chair into a toilet.
2008-02-18 05:14 < ggreer`> TMI
2008-02-18 05:14 * brown_cat is sooo happy :)
2008-02-18 05:14 * AnnoyingNick ducks.
2008-02-18 05:18 < Mike_H> bumm13: are you there
2008-02-18 05:21 < Lycurgus> Rinn: the did that in the film "Idiocracy". It was a "Lazy-Boy" rocker.
2008-02-18 05:21 < Lycurgus> y
2008-02-18 05:22 < Rinn> I've seen pictures of projects like that.
2008-02-18 05:22 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: I found a clip of what's going to be playing
2008-02-18 05:22 < Mike_H> when I enter Hell.
2008-02-18 05:22 < Lycurgus> you didn't see it was a toilet till the character got up
2008-02-18 05:23 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: I don't think you want to know what the clip is.
2008-02-18 05:23 < Mike_H> It's bad.
2008-02-18 05:24 < Lycurgus> I don't believe in Hell. Except, you know, for the other skanks.
2008-02-18 05:25 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: It's a clip of...
2008-02-18 05:25 * Mike_H whispers
2008-02-18 05:25 < Mike_H> lawrence welk
2008-02-18 05:27 < Lycurgus> can this be the first time I've seen that as Larry Cloud? I can't understand why the fuck big sites like Deutsche Welle
2008-02-18 05:27 < Lycurgus> can't set up their sites so they serve media properly.
2008-02-18 05:27 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: Clearly you don't understand the gravity of this situation.
2008-02-18 05:27 < Lycurgus> it worked fine most of the time till a few days ago
2008-02-18 05:27 < Mike_H> LAWRENCE. WELK.
2008-02-18 05:28 * Lycurgus is all about the "gravity of the situation". Situationista he.
2008-02-18 05:28 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: Then you know eight white people from North Dakota singing "Bye Bye Love" is really not anyone's idea of a good time
2008-02-18 05:28 < Mike_H> except for like
2008-02-18 05:29 < Mike_H> my grandmother.
2008-02-18 05:29 < Mike_H> and she's 89.
2008-02-18 05:29 < Lycurgus> mine did too. She'd be about 108.
2008-02-18 05:29 < Lycurgus> my stepfathers mother lived to 107 though.
2008-02-18 05:30 < Mike_H> My grandma will watch Lawrence Welk
2008-02-18 05:30 < Mike_H> and be like
2008-02-18 05:30 < Mike_H> "Oh, he was such a cute man. I saw him in Yankton, South Dakota in 1939."
2008-02-18 05:30 < Lycurgus> "Yankton", touche.
2008-02-18 05:32 < Lycurgus> fucking Krauts they better bring that shit back online or there's gonna be trouble.
2008-02-18 05:33 < Lycurgus> IIRC it used be the thing to drop acid and watch the bubbly musik.
2008-02-18 05:33 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: If there's a German to hate
2008-02-18 05:33 < Mike_H> it's Lawrence Welk.
2008-02-18 05:34 < Lycurgus> commie
2008-02-18 05:38 < Mike_H> Lycurgus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aHJTvD2WgA
2008-02-18 05:40 < Lycurgus> 1 thing I can't understand is why they show that on local PBS affiliates.
2008-02-18 05:41 < Mike_H> because old ladies like my grandmother are still living.
2008-02-18 05:43 < Lycurgus> well fuck em, Nederlands is much more fun anywho
2008-02-18 06:25 * brown_cat looks for some cow juice
2008-02-18 06:26 < NotACow> DEATH TO JUICE
2008-02-18 06:27 < NotACow> moo
2008-02-18 06:39 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-02-18 06:40 * brown_cat has urges
2008-02-18 06:40 < Leslie_S> yay, i finally got hoops to go in my ears
2008-02-18 06:41 * Leslie_S has regular ones in, which she previously could not get to latch
2008-02-18 06:41 < Leslie_S> the ones i wanted to wear though....they wont fit. at all. :( wrong gauge i guess.
2008-02-18 06:42 < mavhc> you near your ears pierced like you need a hole in your head
2008-02-18 06:42 < Leslie_S> ...why?
2008-02-18 06:42 < Leslie_S> whats wrong with ear piercing?
2008-02-18 06:43 < Leslie_S> and clearly i dont need my ears pierced if they already are?
2008-02-18 06:48 < Jaqen> if I move a page over an existing page that I can undelete the revisions, can't i?
2008-02-18 06:49 < Leslie_S> you cant undelete anything unles youre an admin
2008-02-18 06:49 < Leslie_S> and you shouldnt do that unless theres a good reason (like youre doing a merge)
2008-02-18 06:49 < Jaqen> I am admin on it.wp, where I want to to this, and I want to do a merge ;-)
2008-02-18 06:49 < Leslie_S> then yes, thats exactly right.
2008-02-18 06:50 < Leslie_S> WTF: there is fish food floating in the tank. one of my fish is trying to eat a rock.
2008-02-18 06:50 < Leslie_S> why would y ou try to eat a *rock* when theres ...food in the tank?
2008-02-18 06:51 < jerkface03> because your fish is a fish?
2008-02-18 06:51 < jerkface03> and it's probably forgetten that your dropped food in the tank?
2008-02-18 06:51 * Leslie_S shrugs
2008-02-18 06:51 < jerkface03> because the memory-span of a fish lasts what, 10 seconds?
2008-02-18 06:52 < jerkface03> my dog is smarter than your fish ;/
2008-02-18 06:52 < jerkface03> he hits me up for food all the time
2008-02-18 06:52 < jerkface03> starts pawing at my leg whenever i'm eatting dinner
2008-02-18 06:52 < mavhc> I think the whole fish no memory thing is a lie
2008-02-18 06:52 < Leslie_S> do fish forget that fast?
2008-02-18 06:53 < Leslie_S> jeremyb my cats do that. when there's food in their dish.
2008-02-18 06:53 < jerkface03> why? did you have a conversation with a fish while you were high from 7 hits of acid?
2008-02-18 06:53 < Leslie_S> er, i mean jerkface03
2008-02-18 06:53 < Leslie_S> and peope think that fish cant feel pain either :(
2008-02-18 06:53 < jerkface03> sure they can, they wriggle and stuff
2008-02-18 06:53 < jerkface03> thats a reaction to pain
2008-02-18 06:53 < Jaqen> thanks Leslie_S :-) bye
2008-02-18 06:56 < jerkface03> boy am i fucked
2008-02-18 06:56 < jerkface03> its already 4am i still don't have this assignment done yet
2008-02-18 06:56 < jerkface03> i've been working on it since 1 in the afternoon
2008-02-18 06:56 < jerkface03> and i got a midterm at 6pm today
2008-02-18 06:56 < Leslie_S> ...
2008-02-18 06:58 < Leslie_S> and another wtf....these fish were bought from the *same tank* at walmart. clearly if the first is true, they should be able to get along with eachother, or they wouldnt be in the tank together. i bought them, and theyve been peaceful for several days...now two are trying to kill the other?
2008-02-18 07:00 < Leslie_S> and now a cat is going fishing
2008-02-18 07:20 < jerkface03> what does verbal refer to?
2008-02-18 07:21 < jerkface03> if I say something is non-verbal
2008-02-18 07:21 < jerkface03> does that mean that there's no speaking involved?
2008-02-18 07:21 < jerkface03> does text messages qualify as being non-verbal?
2008-02-18 07:22 < Hildanknight> Anyone familiar with automated peer reviews here?
2008-02-18 07:40 < Hildanknight> I have a problem here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Flag_of_Singapore/archive1
2008-02-18 07:43 < Hildanknight> AZPR posted a link to a semi-automated peer review, but when I follow the link, I cannot find the semi-automated peer review for *this particular article* on the list of semi-automated peer reviews.
2008-02-18 07:49 * brown_cat growls
2008-02-18 07:52 < Ryan_wp> Hello everyone
2008-02-18 07:59 < Ryan_wp> Wow... there are a lot of mimes on here... nobody's talkin'
2008-02-18 08:02 < Ryan_wp> it's been so long I have to go...
2008-02-18 08:15 < kdehl> Hi. Question. I'm currently sitting in China, having a proxy server set up in Sweden (from where I am), but it's so incredible slow. Any solutions? I would love to have something in Hong Kong or Taiwan, which I guess would be way faster. Are there any public servers there one can use?
2008-02-18 08:16 < kdehl> And by slow, I mean, I can load a page about once in ten tries, where each try takes a few minutes.
2008-02-18 08:18 < superluser> I've got a quick question.
2008-02-18 08:20 < superluser> The image [[Image:WOTW-NYT-headline.jpg]] is used on [[The War of the Worlds]], but it's listed as an orphan. Why?
2008-02-18 08:20 < superluser> Sorry, [[The War of the Worlds (radio)]]
2008-02-18 08:30 < superluser> So does anyone know why an image might show up as orphaned, despite it not being orphaned?
2008-02-18 08:34 < NotACow> it's feeling lonely?
2008-02-18 08:35 < superluser> Doesn't seem likely.
2008-02-18 08:36 < zvook> ianno
2008-02-18 08:36 < superluser> I'm seeing a similar syntax for [[Hillary Clinton 1992.jpg]] at [[Hillary Rodham Clinton]], and it's showing up on file links there.
2008-02-18 08:38 < zvook> take the tag off
2008-02-18 08:39 < zvook> for kicks
2008-02-18 08:39 < superluser> I will, once I figure out what's going on
2008-02-18 08:42 < superluser> ...what the heck? Why on Earth would adding |upright make the file link show up?
2008-02-18 08:50 < superluser> Right, so The Wikipedia database is temporarily in read-only mode for the following reason: $1
2008-02-18 08:51 < superluser> It suggests asking at #wikipedia, and since I'm already here, I figure why not ask?
2008-02-18 08:52 < NotASpy> it's my fault, it should be OK now.
2008-02-18 09:11 < Sfan00> Greetings
2008-02-18 09:16 < Mark_Ryan> hullo Sfan00
2008-02-18 09:16 < Sfan00> Hi
2008-02-18 09:16 < NotACow> DEATH TO AN ENTITY TO BE NAMED LATER
2008-02-18 09:18 < Sfan00> Hi notACow
2008-02-18 09:20 * brown_cat waves to Sfan00
2008-02-18 09:20 < brown_cat> are you interested in cow juice?
2008-02-18 09:21 < quanticle> DEATH TO INDETERMINACY
2008-02-18 09:21 < quanticle> cow juice == milk?
2008-02-18 09:21 < ST47> ...
2008-02-18 09:21 < brown_cat> quanticle: omg
2008-02-18 09:21 < brown_cat> you are so smart
2008-02-18 09:22 < quanticle> brown_cat: That had better be sarcasm... Its too early in the morning for me to tell for sure.
2008-02-18 09:22 * quanticle was up till 3:00am
2008-02-18 09:22 * quanticle woke up at 6:00am
2008-02-18 09:22 < brown_cat> well, i'm not now but, the exact thing happened at school and i was serious O_oo
2008-02-18 09:22 < Sfan00_> Hmm Connection gltiched
2008-02-18 09:23 < Sfan00_> :)
2008-02-18 09:24 < brown_cat> that's good?
2008-02-18 09:24 < Sfan00> Meant someone triggered the firewalls protective mechanism ;)
2008-02-18 09:24 < NotACow> poot
2008-02-18 09:25 < NotACow> poot poot
2008-02-18 09:25 < NotACow> poo poo papoot
2008-02-18 09:25 * ST47 stares a NotACow
2008-02-18 09:25 < Sfan00> HI ST47
2008-02-18 09:25 < ST47> HI SFAN00
2008-02-18 09:25 * NotACow throws pootbricks at ST47
2008-02-18 09:26 < Sfan00> Can you rejig your bot to flag sutiably licensed images as commons candidates auto-magically?
2008-02-18 09:27 < ST47> I would probably be lynched.
2008-02-18 09:27 * brown_cat waves to ST47
2008-02-18 09:27 < NotACow> sounds liek fun!
2008-02-18 09:28 < NotACow> i love a good lynching in the morning
2008-02-18 10:00 < Warpath> ST47, you live ? O_O
2008-02-18 10:02 < cctoide> hmm
2008-02-18 10:02 < cctoide> I recall reading a page that had guidelines on creating Wikipedia logos for other-language wikipedias
2008-02-18 10:03 < cctoide> I could use it right now, need to find out the name of the logo font
2008-02-18 10:03 < bumm13> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Logo
2008-02-18 10:04 < cctoide> ah
2008-02-18 10:04 < cctoide> thanks a lot
2008-02-18 10:06 < Wurbel> hi
2008-02-18 10:06 < bumm13> HI
2008-02-18 10:06 < bumm13> *hi
2008-02-18 10:07 < Wurbel> i've found several articles about a historical subject that contradict each other and none has references supporting it.
2008-02-18 10:08 < Wurbel> should they be tagged or what?
2008-02-18 10:09 < uberpenguin> they should be drawn and quartered
2008-02-18 10:09 < bumm13> heh
2008-02-18 10:09 < Wurbel> {{drawn&quartered}} ?
2008-02-18 10:10 < bumm13> hiya uberpenguin
2008-02-18 10:13 < Wurbel> i just wondered because one is even in the "Wikipedia for Schools" project
2008-02-18 10:14 < Wurbel> ach irc
2008-02-18 10:17 < geniice> {{fact}}?
2008-02-18 10:17 < geniice> and leave comment on the talk page
2008-02-18 10:19 < uberpenguin> yo bumm13
2008-02-18 10:20 < uberpenguin> "wikipedia for schools"? what an ill-conceived idea
2008-02-18 10:40 < researchsocial> hello
2008-02-18 10:41 < ST47> hello
2008-02-18 10:42 < researchsocial> is it possible to post a wikipedia survey here
2008-02-18 10:42 < ST47> not really
2008-02-18 10:42 < researchsocial> oic
2008-02-18 10:42 < ST47> I mean, you can post a link, but that's sort of frowned upon
2008-02-18 10:43 < Mark_Ryan> posting links is fine
2008-02-18 10:43 < researchsocial> because i looking for contributors who have edit in anything that deals with IT
2008-02-18 10:43 < NotACow> DEATH TO SURVEYS
2008-02-18 10:43 < researchsocial> it is for my uni project
2008-02-18 10:43 < researchsocial> sorry
2008-02-18 10:43 < NotACow> researchsocial: nobody edits wikipedia articles regarding IT
2008-02-18 10:44 < researchsocial> ...
2008-02-18 10:44 < NotACow> researchsocial: those of us who actually know anythingabout IT are prohibited from editing them by the conflict-of-interst policy
2008-02-18 10:44 < Mark_Ryan> IT and anime are basically the two parts of Wikipedia we don't have enough articles on ;)
2008-02-18 10:44 < researchsocial> computer science, gaming ...under IT
2008-02-18 10:44 < NotACow> therefore, all articles about IT-related topics are writtne by first-semester voc-tech students
2008-02-18 10:44 < NotACow> from their class notes
2008-02-18 10:44 < researchsocial> people who have IT knowledge also can
2008-02-18 10:44 < NotACow> researchsocial: we don't
2008-02-18 10:44 < researchsocial> ...
2008-02-18 10:45 < NotACow> researchsocial: we're too busy using our knowledge to get into fights with idiots over it
2008-02-18 10:45 < researchsocial> my survey is targeted to anyone who believe he/she has IT skill
2008-02-18 10:46 < NotACow> researchsocial: you'll find lots of people who BELIEVE they have IT skills over at monster.com
2008-02-18 10:46 * NotACow doesn't consider "gaming" an "IT topic", either
2008-02-18 10:47 < researchsocial> ...
2008-02-18 10:47 < researchsocial> but isn't wikipedian the best channel
2008-02-18 10:47 < NotACow> except insofar as you seek to prohibit it on your network :)
2008-02-18 10:47 < NotACow> researchsocial: it has some of the best trolls on freenode
2008-02-18 10:48 < researchsocial> what is trolls
2008-02-18 10:48 < NotACow> I HAS FEETS
2008-02-18 10:49 < researchsocial> anyway:this is my survey (pls don't ban me)http://www.my3q.com/home2/202/researchsocial/nuswiki.phtml
2008-02-18 10:49 < researchsocial> pls
2008-02-18 10:50 * ST47 looks
2008-02-18 10:50 < researchsocial> http://www.my3q.com/home2/202/researchsocial/nuswiki.phtml
2008-02-18 10:51 < researchsocial> sorry
2008-02-18 10:57 * NotACow giggles
2008-02-18 10:57 < NotACow> that survey needs to be rewritten by someone who actually can write english.
2008-02-18 10:57 < researchsocial> sorry
2008-02-18 10:58 < researchsocial> really sorry
2008-02-18 10:59 < closedmouth> notacow, his english is better than yours
2008-02-18 11:02 < stevecrossin> wikipedia editing is currently locked from editing. why?
2008-02-18 11:02 < stevecrossin> The Wikipedia database is temporarily in read-only mode for the following reason:
2008-02-18 11:02 < stevecrossin> The database has been automatically locked while the slave database servers catch up to the master
2008-02-18 11:03 < ST47> It's fixed :)
2008-02-18 11:03 < ST47> Just routine maintenance
2008-02-18 11:03 < stevecrossin> ok great
2008-02-18 11:03 < Karlprof> Top in the UK for We Are The Champions
2008-02-18 11:03 < Karlprof> I understand if you're overawed
2008-02-18 11:09 < uberpenguin> IT can be incredibly insular... a lot of IT fields don't like sharing their knowledge
2008-02-18 11:09 < uberpenguin> especially IBMers
2008-02-18 11:09 < uberpenguin> they have their own world which is wholly separate from everything else
2008-02-18 11:10 < uberpenguin> even the lingo... ask an IBMer what RPG is
2008-02-18 11:10 < uberpenguin> totally different response than what your typical teenaged nerd will come back with
2008-02-18 11:13 < Karlprof> uberpenguin: The RPG programming language isn't /that/ obscure
2008-02-18 11:13 < NotACow> DOOBIE DOOBIE DOOBIE DOOBIE
2008-02-18 11:14 < NotACow> Karlprof: yes, but outside of IBMers if you ask about an RPG you'll either get "role playing game" or "rocket-powered grenade"
2008-02-18 11:15 < nsh> Information immortality through redundancy.
2008-02-18 11:15 < uberpenguin> Karlprof: there are probably four people in here that even know what it is
2008-02-18 11:15 < uberpenguin> maybe one or two who know anything about it
2008-02-18 11:15 < NotACow> i know what it is but nothing about its details
2008-02-18 11:15 < uberpenguin> and of course it's not obscure, it's just part of an insular world
2008-02-18 11:16 < NotACow> i saw an o'reilly book on RPG programming at B&N yesterday
2008-02-18 11:16 < uberpenguin> thousands of people use it, but they are part of a world which is largely separate from internet communities
2008-02-18 11:16 < NotACow> i was rather surprised by that
2008-02-18 11:16 < uberpenguin> internet communities center around *nix for obvious historical reasons
2008-02-18 11:17 < NotACow> uberpenguin: yup. which is why internet communities have an overzealous love of linux.
2008-02-18 11:17 < NotACow> uberpenguin: is bitnet still running? i forge.t
2008-02-18 11:17 < uberpenguin> no clue
2008-02-18 11:18 < uberpenguin> I'd call it more of an odd world view which basically assumes that *nix is the best OS paradigm
2008-02-18 11:18 < uberpenguin> IBMers know differently, of course
2008-02-18 11:18 < NotACow> heh
2008-02-18 11:19 < NotACow> wikipedia's article on RPG is amusing
2008-02-18 11:19 < NotACow> "This is a shame"
2008-02-18 11:19 < NotACow> the combative "but"s are also cute
2008-02-18 11:19 < uberpenguin> I may have written it or a major part of it
2008-02-18 11:19 < uberpenguin> I can't recall
2008-02-18 11:20 < uberpenguin> I gave up writing about the IBM world... they change the names of products annoyingly often nowadays
2008-02-18 11:20 < Taggard> Wow, the "modern" skin is awesome.
2008-02-18 11:21 < NotACow> uberpenguin: yay, branding!
2008-02-18 11:22 < NotACow> uberpenguin: the RPG article is tagged ashaving no sources and gets quite a lot of vandalism
2008-02-18 11:22 < uberpenguin> I don't even get why... IBM's target demographic presumably doesn't care much about the name
2008-02-18 11:22 < uberpenguin> I don't even want to talk about sources
2008-02-18 11:22 < uberpenguin> I haven't edited wikipedia significantly in months and that word still has a negative connotation for me
2008-02-18 11:22 < Fabexplosive> hello
2008-02-18 11:23 < NotACow> uberpenguin: wikipedia's sourcing fetish is stupid
2008-02-18 11:23 < uberpenguin> it may be ruined forever... crippling my ability to write academic research papers
2008-02-18 11:23 < NotACow> uberpenguin: i know at least one editor who believes that every WORD in every article should be attributable to a source
2008-02-18 11:23 < uberpenguin> NotACow: yes, everyone sane knows that, let's not waste time talking about it
2008-02-18 11:23 < uberpenguin> ah, so they endorse plagiarism... brilliant
2008-02-18 11:24 < uberpenguin> the [source OED]
2008-02-18 11:24 < NotACow> uberpenguin: i think the position is that every article should be written by cut-and-paste from other sources
2008-02-18 11:24 < NotACow> uberpenguin: synthesis is Just Plain Out
2008-02-18 11:24 < uberpenguin> there is no position, people just don't know what to think because there's zero editorial direction
2008-02-18 11:24 < uberpenguin> so you get weird and generally stupid theories
2008-02-18 11:24 < NotACow> uberpenguin: and when people do take an editorial stance, they are accused of introducing bias.
2008-02-18 11:25 < NotACow> uberpenguin: fundamentally the problem is that NPOV doesn't exist.
2008-02-18 11:25 < uberpenguin> yes yes, we could rant for an hour about this, but seeing how I already know we agree on this and therefore it isn't possible for me to troll you or vice versa, I'm not inclined to talk about it in much greater detail
2008-02-18 11:25 < uberpenguin> let's talk about fried chicken or something equally pleasant
2008-02-18 11:26 < NotACow> ok
2008-02-18 11:26 < NotACow> i think i prefer tandoori chicken to fried, anyway
2008-02-18 11:27 < uberpenguin> to each his own
2008-02-18 11:27 < uberpenguin> it's hard to ruin chicken unless you're a retarded cook
2008-02-18 11:27 < NotACow> you could fail to cook it completely
2008-02-18 11:27 < NotACow> i've yet to encounter anyone who honestly wants chicken sushi
2008-02-18 11:28 < uberpenguin> well yes, that could safely be called 'retarded' I think
2008-02-18 11:28 < NotACow> i have no objections to raw meat, but i draw the line at raw poultry.
2008-02-18 11:28 < uberpenguin> fortunately such actions would likely contribute to positive natural selection
2008-02-18 11:29 < NotACow> i could do with a martini about now
2008-02-18 11:30 < NotACow> i just had someone call me i think to present a job opportunity
2008-02-18 11:30 < uberpenguin> isn't it too early for that?
2008-02-18 11:30 < NotACow> however, his english was so heavily stilted that he might have been offering me a car loan instead
2008-02-18 11:30 < NotACow> uberpenguin: it's never too early for a martini
2008-02-18 11:30 < uberpenguin> heh... defense contractors are always after me
2008-02-18 11:31 < uberpenguin> but my GPA is too good for me to settle for that :P
2008-02-18 11:31 < uberpenguin> I can get a design engineering job, I'm not going into defense
2008-02-18 11:31 < NotACow> whee
2008-02-18 11:31 < NotACow> "Excellent team player, who likes to work hard, works extremely well with others"
2008-02-18 11:31 < NotACow> in other words, "a scutslave"
2008-02-18 11:32 < uberpenguin> that's a generic line pulled from just about every professional job description these days
2008-02-18 11:32 < NotACow> uberpenguin: this one has it a bit more aggressively written
2008-02-18 11:32 < NotACow> uberpenguin: which means it's a sweatshop that's paying its staff in equity
2008-02-18 11:32 < uberpenguin> yes "likes to work hard" is a bit strong
2008-02-18 11:32 < NotACow> i interviewed at one of these places a while ago
2008-02-18 11:33 < NotACow> they wanted about 10K less than comparable places and expected much longer work hours
2008-02-18 11:33 < vintanel> joder cuantos guiris sueltos
2008-02-18 11:33 < uberpenguin> I had a possibility for a process job at a large-ish compound semiconductor company, basically running a production process
2008-02-18 11:34 < uberpenguin> they wanted me to work second shift and weekends
2008-02-18 11:34 < uberpenguin> no thanks
2008-02-18 11:34 < uberpenguin> the job would've been hella cool, but it's not worth it to me
2008-02-18 11:34 < NotACow> the only upsides i could see were the total lack of a dress code or other corporate trappings, and the vague chance that you might get an equity stake so when they get bought out you don't get totally screwed
2008-02-18 11:34 < vintanel> que te pires a tu casa
2008-02-18 11:35 < NotACow> and at my age that ain't worth it
2008-02-18 11:35 < NotACow> i bet their health care sucked ass, too; i never got that far
2008-02-18 11:35 < uberpenguin> last job I interviewed for had some REALLY good benefits
2008-02-18 11:36 < uberpenguin> you start out with four weeks of paid vacation... unused days roll over and you can accrue up to five weeks
2008-02-18 11:36 < uberpenguin> health, dental, vision, retirement all very good
2008-02-18 11:36 < CharlotteWebb> oh my. carcharoth has just compared david shankbone to giano.
2008-02-18 11:37 < uberpenguin> LOL WIKIDRAMA HURGALURG
2008-02-18 11:37 * NotACow has no idea who david shankbone is
2008-02-18 11:37 < NotACow> soap actor?
2008-02-18 11:38 < uberpenguin> probably a wikipedo
2008-02-18 11:39 < CharlotteWebb> high-volume photographer
2008-02-18 11:39 < NotACow> photographs don't have volumes
2008-02-18 11:39 < uberpenguin> 3d photographs?
2008-02-18 11:40 < NotACow> uberpenguin: that's neat shit. i've read a few articles about techniques for that.
2008-02-18 11:40 < uberpenguin> is volume a uniquely 3-dimensional concept, or can it be generalized into higher spaces? probably not...
2008-02-18 11:40 < CharlotteWebb> i mean roughly 3,000 uploads on commons. many of them of celebrities
2008-02-18 11:40 < NotACow> uberpenguin: it can be
2008-02-18 11:40 < NotACow> uberpenguin: hypervolume
2008-02-18 11:41 < NotACow> uberpenguin: a 4D object has hypervolume, and its hypersurface has surface volume
2008-02-18 11:42 < uberpenguin> still, that doesn't speak to generalizability... hypervolume may only be similar in name
2008-02-18 11:42 < uberpenguin> and there's still the n-dimensional case
2008-02-18 11:42 < NotACow> uberpenguin: it can be generalized indefinitely, and has been
2008-02-18 11:43 < NotACow> uberpenguin: there's even a generalization to spaces with infinite dimension
2008-02-18 11:43 < NotACow> uberpenguin: although that stuff totally blows my mind
2008-02-18 11:43 < uberpenguin> {{fact}}
2008-02-18 11:43 < uberpenguin> hohohohoho
2008-02-18 11:44 < Lubaf> How many people here have heard the phrase "Exactly what it says on the tin"?
2008-02-18 11:44 * Starnestommy raises hand
2008-02-18 11:44 < NotACow> uberpenguin: source: Richard Penney, Ph.D (my honors calc professor back in 1990)
2008-02-18 11:44 < uberpenguin> yeah, I'm not a fan of n-dimensional, or indeed any non-Euclidean, geometries
2008-02-18 11:44 < NotACow> uberpenguin: actually you can have n-dimensional euclidean geometry :)
2008-02-18 11:45 < uberpenguin> lies
2008-02-18 11:45 < uberpenguin> LIES
2008-02-18 11:45 < uberpenguin> I will consult my russian friend
2008-02-18 11:45 < uberpenguin> and probably become even more confused
2008-02-18 11:45 < NotACow> strict euclidean geometry is 2-dimensional, but it can be extended into n dimensions consistently.
2008-02-18 11:46 < uberpenguin> *shrug* I'm generally in the business of avoiding maths
2008-02-18 11:46 < NotACow> uberpenguin: math is a candleflame that attracts moths :)
2008-02-18 11:46 < uberpenguin> we design by a process best described as 'voodoo magic'
2008-02-18 11:51 < NotACow> uberpenguin: http://xkcd.com/356/ :)
2008-02-18 11:56 < uberpenguin> ah yes, the infinite grid of resistors problem... a nifty test of mathematics skills which is practically useless
2008-02-18 11:56 < NotACow> uberpenguin: yup!
2008-02-18 11:56 < uberpenguin> my answer to that would be "the resistance is less than three ohms, it's probably negligible, and this is useless for any real circuit problem"
2008-02-18 11:57 < NotACow> who the hell would create an infinite grid of resistors?
2008-02-18 11:57 < uberpenguin> two second answer which is just as useful as the accurate answer
2008-02-18 11:57 < NotACow> uberpenguin: not to mention there's no such thing as an "ideal" resister
2008-02-18 11:57 < uberpenguin> not to mention tolerance
2008-02-18 11:57 < uberpenguin> but again, it's not an engineering problem, it's a mathematics problem
2008-02-18 11:57 < uberpenguin> if you're looking for a mathematically keen mind, I guess it's a good question
2008-02-18 11:58 < NotACow> anybody want some beef?
2008-02-18 11:58 < NotACow> more tornadoes in the deep south
2008-02-18 11:58 < NotACow> and a texas oil refinery went boom
2008-02-18 11:59 < NotACow> expect gas prices to soar at least a quarter a gallon
2008-02-18 12:00 < NotACow> not having health insurance increases your risk of dying of cancer
2008-02-18 12:00 < NotACow> not having health insurance increases your risk of dying
2008-02-18 12:01 < NotACow> haha
2008-02-18 12:01 < NotACow> Howard County sheriff's dispatcher, who declined to give her name, said: "All I know is that it blew up."
2008-02-18 12:02 < Sfan00> not having helath insurance is a fialure of the US government to see logic on healthcare
2008-02-18 12:05 < NotACow> get your own health insurance, freeloaders
2008-02-18 12:06 < Sfan00> It's a fialure of logic, in that not evryeone can afford it , or wants to deal with insurance companies
2008-02-18 12:06 < Sfan00> willingly or not
2008-02-18 12:07 < Taggard> Hmm, can someone block this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Radiodonutz
2008-02-18 12:08 * Krimpet hates the greedy pharmaceutical corporations more. if they didn't overcharge for their products, health care would be at least a bit easier to deal with for many folks
2008-02-18 12:09 < Sfan00> I'm not against private sector provision really
2008-02-18 12:09 < Sfan00> There just needs to be universal price structure that's fiar
2008-02-18 12:09 < Sfan00> *fair
2008-02-18 12:10 < Sfan00> For example if you put your back out playing squash some may say it's reasonable you make some contribution for spinal care...
2008-02-18 12:10 < NotACow> there is too much market friction in the health-care induustry, and too many people with a vested interest in keeping that friction in place.
2008-02-18 12:10 < NotACow> Sfan00: nonsense, we must encourage people to exercise so that they won't be fata.
2008-02-18 12:10 < NotACow> fat
2008-02-18 12:10 < Sfan00> Yes, but playign some sports carries a risk
2008-02-18 12:11 < NotACow> Sfan00: which should be borne by society so that we won't have to worry about their being fat people
2008-02-18 12:11 < Sfan00> I mean some sports like say Rugby would need a slight premimum to cover sporting injuries
2008-02-18 12:11 < Sfan00> And if you do stuff like rock climbing even more so
2008-02-18 12:11 < NotACow> Sfan00: only if those sports are associated with being fat.
2008-02-18 12:12 < Sfan00> Rugby isn't
2008-02-18 12:12 < Sfan00> Would you disagree with a premium on motorsports then?
2008-02-18 12:12 < Sfan00> Cause in Motorsport you can really do serious injuries if you get it wrong
2008-02-18 12:13 < Sfan00> Of course some medical work shoudl cost money - after all plastic surgery for most people isn't a life critical issue
2008-02-18 12:13 < Sfan00> Wheras as a bypass would be
2008-02-18 12:13 < NotACow> Sfan00: if it makes them less fat it's absolutely justified.
2008-02-18 12:14 < Sfan00> You would support the NHS paying for lipsuction in serious cases?
2008-02-18 12:14 < NotACow> Sfan00: would i?
2008-02-18 12:14 < NotACow> Sfan00: of course not. however, i don't make the rules.
2008-02-18 12:14 < NotACow> Sfan00: and right now there's a HUGE campaign to stamp out fatness.
2008-02-18 12:14 < Sfan00> the US needs a National Health Adminstration
2008-02-18 12:15 < NotACow> Sfan00: there's even one state that has a proposal that would prohibit fat people from eating in restaraunts.
2008-02-18 12:15 < Sfan00> but not nessacrily on the UK moel
2008-02-18 12:15 < Sfan00> *model
2008-02-18 12:15 < Sfan00> NotACow: That woudl eb unconstitutional
2008-02-18 12:15 < Sfan00> You cannot ban people from doing legal things
2008-02-18 12:16 < Sfan00> And I fail to see how just beign fat represents a societal harm , in the wya drug addictions do
2008-02-18 12:16 * Krimpet just hates the idea of paying $90-$150 a month for medicine needed to function on a day-to-day basis; it's pure greed really
2008-02-18 12:16 < NotACow> Sfan00: if you ban someone from doing it, it's no longer legal.
2008-02-18 12:16 < Sfan00> Yeah
2008-02-18 12:17 < NotACow> Sfan00: fat people are visually offensive, so we must ban them.
2008-02-18 12:17 < NotACow> Sfan00: that's what this is all about.
2008-02-18 12:17 < Sfan00> but it's still bodering on being against people free rights....
2008-02-18 12:17 < Sfan00> to over-eat