freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-16 14:55 < Taza> Fighting alongside the nazis wins an uncontested enslavement by the Soviet Union.
2008-02-16 14:55 < TheWeasel> just a second
2008-02-16 14:56 < Taza> Like it or not, sometimes people put their own skins ahead the ones of people they don't know.
2008-02-16 14:56 < TheWeasel> it's the choice between a de iure enslavement by the Soviets and a de facto enslavement by the Germans.
2008-02-16 14:56 < Taza> Nope
2008-02-16 14:56 < TheWeasel> How was Adolfs skin your own?
2008-02-16 14:56 < Taza> We fought off the Germans back then.
2008-02-16 14:56 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-02-16 14:56 < Taza> God, are you a fuckwad. Welcome to ignore.
2008-02-16 14:57 < Taza> Jesus F. Christ what a troll.
2008-02-16 14:57 < TheWeasel> Uh... what rolled over me?
2008-02-16 14:58 < CharlotteWebb> my apologies if i ruined the channel by replacing the "b" in Obama with a German letter
2008-02-16 14:58 < TheWeasel> Did I do anything wrong?
2008-02-16 14:58 < TheWeasel> No you didn't.
2008-02-16 14:58 < geniice> you failed to be british
2008-02-16 14:58 < Taza> CharlotteWebb: Nah, you find people like that everywhere.
2008-02-16 14:58 < CharlotteWebb> it looks like it all went downhill from there
2008-02-16 14:58 < Alkivar> its amazing how much bitter vitriol comes out when hitler comes up... i mean its 50 years later and still no one can take a calm/rational/dispationate look at the man
2008-02-16 14:58 < Taza> I can.
2008-02-16 14:58 < Alkivar> err dispassionate
2008-02-16 14:58 < Taza> I can see that whoever decided to side with him saved this country.
2008-02-16 14:58 * TheWeasel takes a calm and rational look at the man and finds him lacking in everything.
2008-02-16 14:58 < geniice> calm/rational/dispationate he lost thus wasn't good enough
2008-02-16 14:59 < TheWeasel> Uh...
2008-02-16 14:59 < CharlotteWebb> let's try to be a little more... swiss
2008-02-16 14:59 < TheWeasel> he murdered six million innocent folks.
2008-02-16 14:59 < geniice> by his own rules that is all that matters
2008-02-16 14:59 < Taza> The fact that he lost is even better.
2008-02-16 14:59 < Taza> We weren't in it to help the nazis - we were in it to save ourselves from the soviets.
2008-02-16 15:00 < Taza> Yeah, yeah, trying to calm the filesystem check down
2008-02-16 15:00 < kenlyric> stalin did at least twice as much genocide as hitler
2008-02-16 15:00 < kenlyric> but people don't hate stalin nearly as much as hitler
2008-02-16 15:00 < geniice> yes and no. Tactics made little sense from a purely defensive view
2008-02-16 15:00 < Alkivar> mao did even more
2008-02-16 15:00 < Taza> And Stalin was there right next to us.
2008-02-16 15:00 < Alkivar> no one really talks about Mao
2008-02-16 15:01 < geniice> we didn't go to war with mao and salin
2008-02-16 15:01 < Taza> geniice: We did.
2008-02-16 15:01 < geniice> and stalin killed more slowly and with better PR
2008-02-16 15:01 < TheWeasel> Hitler was an absolute singularity
2008-02-16 15:01 < TheWeasel> and Mao only came to power in 1949.
2008-02-16 15:01 < Taza> It's been a long road towards trying to not hate the russians throughoutly.
2008-02-16 15:01 < geniice> Taza are you saying there is something wrong with hateing the russians?
2008-02-16 15:01 < smallfoot-> the website logs me out
2008-02-16 15:01 < smallfoot-> why?
2008-02-16 15:02 < Taza> (which is hard seeing that from our cultural viewpoint they're greedy, rude and uncivilized)
2008-02-16 15:02 < geniice> smallfoot which one?
2008-02-16 15:02 < CharlotteWebb> in my experience, people only mention stalin when they are deliberately trying to avoid violating godwin's law by mentioning hitler
2008-02-16 15:02 < smallfoot-> geniice, en.wikipedia.org
2008-02-16 15:02 < smallfoot-> when i close firefox
2008-02-16 15:02 < geniice> smallfoot- hmmm delete cookies and try again
2008-02-16 15:02 < Taza> smallfoot-: Check "remember me"
2008-02-16 15:02 < Taza> :P
2008-02-16 15:02 < geniice> and make sure you tick stay logged in
2008-02-16 15:02 < TheWeasel> wow, now there's a dispassionate view.
2008-02-16 15:02 < CharlotteWebb> firefox has a setting for "clear all private data" when you exit
2008-02-16 15:02 < TheWeasel> brb really
2008-02-16 15:02 < Alkivar> smallfoot: make sure your browser isnt deleting cookies when you close it down
2008-02-16 15:02 < CharlotteWebb> exactly
2008-02-16 15:02 < smallfoot-> Taza, ya "Remember me" is checked
2008-02-16 15:03 < Taza> smallfoot-: You can have Privacy Settings set to delete Wikipedia/3rd party cookies.
2008-02-16 15:03 < smallfoot-> CharlotteWebb, i dont have it enabled
2008-02-16 15:03 < CharlotteWebb> browser setting
2008-02-16 15:03 < Taza> Or to clear cookies when closing firefox
2008-02-16 15:03 < Alkivar> smallfoot msg me and i'll walk you through getting it fixed
2008-02-16 15:03 < geniice> CharlotteWebb actualy I tend to bring up stalin when I'm talking about how to do genodice
2008-02-16 15:03 < smallfoot-> Taza, yes but wikipedia have an exception, so wikipedia cookies are added
2008-02-16 15:03 < White_Cat> you know comparing Hitler with Stalin is a bad ide
2008-02-16 15:03 < Alkivar> its hard when 5 people are giving advice
2008-02-16 15:03 < White_Cat> *idea
2008-02-16 15:03 < White_Cat> granted both had a mustache
2008-02-16 15:03 < geniice> CharlotteWebb you see hitler wasn't actualy very good at genocide
2008-02-16 15:03 < Taza> smallfoot-: both wikipedia.org and en.wikipedia.org ?
2008-02-16 15:03 < geniice> CharlotteWebb just not systematic enough
2008-02-16 15:04 < smallfoot-> only wikipedia.org, but it should allow en. too, since its a subdomain
2008-02-16 15:04 < Taza> smallfoot-: Not always the case.
2008-02-16 15:04 < Taza> Firefox bugs weirdly sometimes like that.
2008-02-16 15:04 < White_Cat> geniice he was busy with ww2
2008-02-16 15:04 < White_Cat> I am sure if he was at peace like stalin he would do a more (I dont want to call it decent) job
2008-02-16 15:04 < geniice> White_Cat so was stalin. Didn't stop him deporting the chechen
2008-02-16 15:04 < CharlotteWebb> "war 2.0"
2008-02-16 15:05 < Taza> geniice: I find most Russians throughoutly disgusting, to be honest.
2008-02-16 15:05 < Taza> But the same applies to brits.
2008-02-16 15:05 < Taza> For the opposite reasons, no less.
2008-02-16 15:05 < White_Cat> I consider most humans disgusting, especialy you Taza
2008-02-16 15:05 < geniice> Taza there is a difference. the british empire had better PR
2008-02-16 15:05 < Taza> geniice: Modern brits.
2008-02-16 15:05 < CharlotteWebb> ok that's a little over-the-top
2008-02-16 15:06 < Taza> smallfoot-: Try *.wikipedia.org ?
2008-02-16 15:06 < TheWeasel> Now, there's a dispassionate view.
2008-02-16 15:06 < Taza> Mabbe they changed the wildcard.
2008-02-16 15:06 < TheWeasel> it's lovely how NPOV and fair some people approach history :-)
2008-02-16 15:06 < Taza> CharlotteWebb: Finding most modern brits to be disgusting?
2008-02-16 15:07 < CharlotteWebb> no, the reply
2008-02-16 15:07 < Taza> Ah.
2008-02-16 15:08 < Taza> I find the british definition of "proper" to be so restricting I simply cannot get along with the brits who act "proper" or tell others to act proper.
2008-02-16 15:08 < geniice> britian doesn't invade iraq as often as it used to. that has to be progress right?
2008-02-16 15:08 < Taza> Aye.
2008-02-16 15:09 < Taza> Now they're just a crazy nanny state that's merging with the USA.
2008-02-16 15:09 < geniice> sure it used to invade iraq more effectively but thats life
2008-02-16 15:09 < Taza> I've seen people from the UK surprised we don't have cameras in every turn.
2008-02-16 15:10 < Taza> * every corner.
2008-02-16 15:10 * eth01 smiles
2008-02-16 15:10 < Taza> Heck, from my viewpoint it looks like USA, United Kingdom and Australia have a common vision of forming Oceania.
2008-02-16 15:11 < Taza> Whereas the russians seem to have a problem with the strict definitions of "personal property" Finns have.
2008-02-16 15:11 < geniice> Taza world conquest actualy but close
2008-02-16 15:11 < Taza> geniice: Nah
2008-02-16 15:12 < Taza> geniice: IMO my pop culture reference is closer to the truth than conquest.
2008-02-16 15:12 < DragonFire1024> 1 hour to go
2008-02-16 15:12 < davidmann> i need to talk to an administrator for wiki
2008-02-16 15:12 < TheWeasel> Are we done?
2008-02-16 15:12 < TheWeasel> oh
2008-02-16 15:12 < geniice> davidmann which wiki?
2008-02-16 15:12 < geniice> davidmann and why?
2008-02-16 15:12 < davidmann> wikipedia
2008-02-16 15:12 * TheWeasel would never have thought he'd get called a troll for anti-fascism.
2008-02-16 15:12 < Lycurgus> Orwells Oceania, I take it.
2008-02-16 15:12 < davidmann> i posted a new entry but it was deleted
2008-02-16 15:12 < Taza> Lycurgus: You'd be right.
2008-02-16 15:13 < geniice> davidmann name?
2008-02-16 15:13 < CharlotteWebb> title of the entry
2008-02-16 15:13 < davidmann> the entry was called "Beware The Eyes Of Mars"
2008-02-16 15:13 < eth01> davidmann, why, whats up?
2008-02-16 15:13 < Taza> I mean. I have significant problems with the Russians because of their class approach and because I'm the type who likes to wire my stuff with traps.
2008-02-16 15:13 < eth01> oh, who deleted it?
2008-02-16 15:14 < davidmann> hold on i will check
2008-02-16 15:14 < CharlotteWebb> 10:33, February 16, 2008 Roger Davies (Talk | contribs) deleted "Beware The Eyes Of Mars" ‎ (G12: Blatant copyright infringement)
2008-02-16 15:14 < nuba> ah.. brits and their stiff upper lip!...
2008-02-16 15:14 < davidmann> it is a musical i wrote, so there is no copyright ingringement
2008-02-16 15:14 < Taza> Brits and their crazy social conventions. Good christ was that hard to keep track of.
2008-02-16 15:15 < DannyLilithborne> CharlotteWebb: clever
2008-02-16 15:15 < geniice> Taza it's all written down you just have to look it up
2008-02-16 15:15 < CharlotteWebb> who, me?
2008-02-16 15:15 < CharlotteWebb> what
2008-02-16 15:15 < nuba> it was only thru their craziness that things such as Monty Python came to exist
2008-02-16 15:15 < Taza> geniice: I can't follow it anyway
2008-02-16 15:15 < DannyLilithborne> "Beware The Eyes of Mars" ^_^
2008-02-16 15:15 < geniice> davidmann yes but is it encyclopedic?
2008-02-16 15:15 < DannyLilithborne> yay for mondegreens...
2008-02-16 15:15 < CharlotteWebb> i didn't write it
2008-02-16 15:15 < davidmann> i sent a message saying I am the sole copyright claimant to the musical work entitled "Beware The Eyes Of Mars." I claim copyright in the book, music, and all related graphics and media. "Beware The Eyes Of Mars," Copyright 1991, 2005 by David Mann
2008-02-16 15:15 < davidmann> Proof of copyright available upon request.
2008-02-16 15:15 < geniice> davidmann generaly encyclopedias don't include muscals
2008-02-16 15:15 < davidmann> Please allow this new entry to stay. If you have any questions, you may email me at: dave@delrizian.com
2008-02-16 15:15 < davidmann> Also, Rachel Galvin was a cast member of the last stage version, and wrote a review of the show, and can verify it. She is listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Galvin
2008-02-16 15:15 < CharlotteWebb> apparently, davidmann did
2008-02-16 15:16 < DannyLilithborne> ...
2008-02-16 15:16 < geniice> davidmann did you write about the musical or just include the complete text of the musical?
2008-02-16 15:16 < davidmann> i wrote it
2008-02-16 15:16 < CharlotteWebb> gah, can somebody look at the deleted edits
2008-02-16 15:17 < Taza> Well, I think it was deleted for the wrong reasons anyway. So yeah.
2008-02-16 15:17 < Taza> I support CharlotteWebb's point.
2008-02-16 15:17 < davidmann> i did what?
2008-02-16 15:18 < geniice> davidmann that wasn't the question I asked
2008-02-16 15:18 < Taza> nuba: I'm autistic. So I have a significant problem with any kind of social conventions.
2008-02-16 15:19 < davidmann> there are numerous, well-known plays on wikipedia
2008-02-16 15:19 < Taza> The crazy complex one that UK has makes me utterly hate interacting with most people from the United Kingdom.
2008-02-16 15:19 < nuba> Taza: you live alone in a island ?
2008-02-16 15:19 < geniice> Taza yes but the british ones are systematic and written down
2008-02-16 15:19 < geniice> davidmann nope
2008-02-16 15:19 < Taza> geniice: It doesn't make it easier!
2008-02-16 15:19 < geniice> davidmann there are articles about the plays
2008-02-16 15:19 < Taza> nuba: Apartment in a big nameless building, shopping without saying a word most of the time.
2008-02-16 15:20 < nuba> Taza: do you get your own food, raise your cattle, fish, or whatever? otherwise you'll pretty much need some sort of society on which you can depend or resort to, to survive
2008-02-16 15:20 < davidmann> i am a newbie, but i understand that i am allowed to create a new entry for a work i wrote, am i not? or am i just supposed to comment on it? very confusing
2008-02-16 15:20 < geniice> see [[Twelfth Night]]
2008-02-16 15:20 < geniice> the article is about the play
2008-02-16 15:20 < geniice> it does not include the complete text of the play
2008-02-16 15:21 < Taza> I cannot act "proper", best I can do is to act nondescript and even that stresses me. So the common UK people obsessed over "properness" are very, very, very hard to deal with.
2008-02-16 15:21 < davidmann> i didnt include text from the play, i only mentioned its existence, and a plot summary
2008-02-16 15:21 < Taza> nuba: I do interact with the society, I just act eccentrically and often in an improper manner.
2008-02-16 15:21 < geniice> so in this case '''Beware The Eyes Of Mars''' is a musical by david mann first performed at X on Y date
2008-02-16 15:21 < CharlotteWebb> davidmann, you might contact the person who deleted it
2008-02-16 15:21 < CharlotteWebb> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Roger_Davies
2008-02-16 15:21 < Taza> nuba: And I can do no better either, do check the wiki article for "Asperger's Syndrome"
2008-02-16 15:22 < nuba> well you certainly follow some rules if the interactions with other people, otherwise you would have been "ejected" already
2008-02-16 15:22 < geniice> davidmann plot sumemry okey butt migh want to talk about what reviewers haev thought of the play
2008-02-16 15:22 < Taza> ... or, most brits are hostile towards me because of my medical condition and therefore they disgust me.
2008-02-16 15:22 < davidmann> will he be able to restore it, or should i just try a new entry? i can include reviews that were done
2008-02-16 15:22 < geniice> Taza no brits are hostile to you because you are forigen
2008-02-16 15:23 < geniice> davidmann he could restor it yes
2008-02-16 15:23 < Taza> nuba: I follow common sense and the patched golden rule, that gets me far with most people. But not with spaniards or brits.
2008-02-16 15:23 < cimon> anyone care to tell me what the policy page is about people known for a single event?
2008-02-16 15:23 < Messedrocker> ceil420, your name annoys me because i keep typing "cei" trying to get Ceiling_Cat but I end up getting your name
2008-02-16 15:24 < Alkivar> [[WP:BLP1E]]
2008-02-16 15:24 < CharlotteWebb> WP:ROSAPARKS
2008-02-16 15:24 < nuba> Taza: you're alive, so it seems what youve been doing is fair enough.
2008-02-16 15:24 < DragonFire1024> Bunker is online :)
2008-02-16 15:24 < Taza> Messedrocker: Hit tab more.
2008-02-16 15:24 < davidmann> ok then i will try to have him restore, then add reviews?
2008-02-16 15:24 < Taza> nuba: Well, I don't live in the UK. Fortunately.
2008-02-16 15:24 < Taza> nuba: Also, I'm a big, violent man. Helps too.
2008-02-16 15:24 < ceil420> Messedrocker, don't be lazy with nick completion. it takes 1/8th of a second to hit tab a second time.
2008-02-16 15:24 < Messedrocker> Taza, what happens is it displays the two names that are on
2008-02-16 15:24 < Taza> Messedrocker: Get a better client.
2008-02-16 15:24 * Taza hugs Agamemnon2
2008-02-16 15:25 < davidmann> charlottesweb:
2008-02-16 15:25 < davidmann> how do i contact davies? the link u sent just goes to his page but no place to send a message..does he have email?
2008-02-16 15:25 < Taza> Long time no see, [insert nickname that'd get me banned].
2008-02-16 15:25 < cimon> Alkivar: will you think me funny if I say that link reminds me of Mike Huckabee?
2008-02-16 15:25 < Messedrocker> "nigger"
2008-02-16 15:25 < Taza> Nope.
2008-02-16 15:25 < geniice> davidmann edit his talk page
2008-02-16 15:25 < Taza> Know an ex-lover of his that wasn't impressed. :P
2008-02-16 15:25 < davidmann> ok i see
2008-02-16 15:26 < CharlotteWebb> davidmann this will post a comment to his talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Roger_Davies&action=edit§ion=new
2008-02-16 15:26 < cimon> alkivar: that link has to be mispelled, I didn't find it...
2008-02-16 15:27 < Taza> nuba: I get through halfway by attempting to offend nobody and halfway through threatening to beat up the people I do offend.
2008-02-16 15:27 < CharlotteWebb> davidmann this link will send e-mail to him instead http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Emailuser/Roger_Davies
2008-02-16 15:27 < CharlotteWebb> whichever way you prefer to do it
2008-02-16 15:27 < davidmann> thanks :) i will try that...just to be sure, am i right to say that i can post reviews on a work i claim copyright in, correct?
2008-02-16 15:28 < CharlotteWebb> that sentence has a dangling modifier
2008-02-16 15:28 < geniice> davidmann no
2008-02-16 15:28 < Taza> davidmann: Depends on if you've got the copyright for the reviews too.
2008-02-16 15:28 < CharlotteWebb> do you claim copyright on the reviews too
2008-02-16 15:28 < geniice> davidmann you do not hold copyright on the reviews of your work
2008-02-16 15:28 < Taza> Except if they violate your copyright enough to qualify for copyright infringement
2008-02-16 15:29 < geniice> well not unless you purchased the rights to them which would be wierd
2008-02-16 15:29 < davidmann> ok so how do i post a new entry for this work?
2008-02-16 15:29 < Taza> When they could be considered as derivative work.
2008-02-16 15:29 < geniice> Taza actuly even then you don't
2008-02-16 15:29 < davidmann> they are commenting on my work, though
2008-02-16 15:29 < geniice> Taza you do not hold the rights to that derivative though. you just have the right to sue for damages if someone makes such a derivative
2008-02-16 15:29 < Taza> davidmann: Does not matter.
2008-02-16 15:30 < geniice> davidmann fair use
2008-02-16 15:30 < Taza> geniice: k.
2008-02-16 15:30 < davidmann> so i CAN post reviews that someone else wrote on my work?
2008-02-16 15:30 < geniice> Taza the upshot of this is that potentialy you can end up with a deriviative that no one else can use
2008-02-16 15:30 < Taza> davidmann: ONLY if the reviewer has given you permission.
2008-02-16 15:30 < geniice> davidmann no
2008-02-16 15:31 < geniice> got to go
2008-02-16 15:31 < davidmann> i can get permission
2008-02-16 15:31 < davidmann> how do i prove it tho?
2008-02-16 15:31 < Taza> davidmann: Then please do so beforehand.
2008-02-16 15:31 < Taza> And you might run afoul of the Wikipedia non-free content policies.
2008-02-16 15:32 < DragonFire1024> 30 minutes
2008-02-16 15:32 < Taza> davidmann: I'm unclear on how you would proceed to prove that.
2008-02-16 15:32 < Sonja> is there a script for konversation so i can click on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=links ?
2008-02-16 15:32 < Taza> But I figure adding a "I say so" and having faxable proof etc handy would be enough for most situations
2008-02-16 15:32 < davidmann> so i get permission, then what? just say they gave me permission? what about graphics from the show which i own can i post that? it all seems very hazy
2008-02-16 15:33 < Messedrocker> woohoo
2008-02-16 15:33 < Messedrocker> my iTunes account now has $15.84
2008-02-16 15:33 < Taza> davidmann: I'm unsure, but I figure if you've got the permission of the costume designers, the stage designers, the director and the actor you should be in the clear.
2008-02-16 15:34 < Taza> Written, signed proof that you're ready to fax should do it. And "I say so" might do it. :P
2008-02-16 15:34 < davidmann> all the cast and crew signed release forms
2008-02-16 15:34 < Turelion> Hello
2008-02-16 15:34 < Taza> 'kay, then you're in the clear. Now you only have to get him to accept "I say so"
2008-02-16 15:34 < davidmann> its all on file, except permission to post the reviews
2008-02-16 15:35 < Taza> Get permission for the reviews, request a temporary restore, remove the reviews and readd them once you've got the permission handled.
2008-02-16 15:35 < Taza> If you think this is hazy, you'd be right.
2008-02-16 15:36 < davidmann> ok so it seems like the work and its associated graphics are ok to post as long as i get this davies guy to temporarily restore...
2008-02-16 15:36 < Taza> You've got the rights to the play and you've got release forms from the crew - no idea why not.
2008-02-16 15:36 < davidmann> i will just restore plot synopsis and graphic, and work on getting reviews approved.
2008-02-16 15:36 < davidmann> yes
2008-02-16 15:36 < Taza> Explain that to the person who deleted it and you should be golden.
2008-02-16 15:37 < Taza> If he doesn't agree, take it up on Administrator's Noticeboard.
2008-02-16 15:37 < davidmann> yay....btw is it ok to have external links within the review? or just internal?
2008-02-16 15:37 < Taza> External links are fine.
2008-02-16 15:37 < Taza> As long as they're not counted as advertisements.
2008-02-16 15:37 < Taza> But you're veering into Wikipedia policy terroritory, not legal.
2008-02-16 15:37 < davidmann> i play was for charity, no ads
2008-02-16 15:37 < Taza> Also, disclaimer - I'm not a lawyer.
2008-02-16 15:38 < davidmann> u just play one on TV
2008-02-16 15:38 < Taza> s/TV/IRC/
2008-02-16 15:38 < davidmann> :) ok thanks everyone, i think i know what to do now....
2008-02-16 15:38 < TheWeasel_> Back.
2008-02-16 15:40 < Turelion> @Admins: Is it possible to delete [[User:Turelion]] from en:wp? As I see he never contributed anything, and I would like to use that account. I am Turelion from en:wb, de:wb and de:wp.
2008-02-16 15:41 * NotAPolecat 's engine produces oodles of variations for Morphy-Anderssen, Paris 1858
2008-02-16 15:42 < Taza> Brr. Wishing the oven was hotter.
2008-02-16 15:43 * NotAPolecat considers going out
2008-02-16 15:43 * Messedrocker refrains from nazi jokes
2008-02-16 15:44 < Turelion> NotAPolecat, do you have a FICS-Account?
2008-02-16 15:44 < slashem> FICS? The free internet chess server?
2008-02-16 15:45 < Turelion> Jep
2008-02-16 15:45 < slashem> how odd, I am logged in right now
2008-02-16 15:45 < NotAPolecat> heh, no problem with Nazi jokes
2008-02-16 15:45 < NotASpy> Turelion: If you go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Changing_username/Usurpations, and file a request, you should be able to usurp that username.
2008-02-16 15:45 < Turelion> Ok, I'm coming
2008-02-16 15:45 < NotAPolecat> Oh, that.
2008-02-16 15:45 < Turelion> Thanks NotASpy
2008-02-16 15:45 < NotAPolecat> I don't have a FICS account, no
2008-02-16 15:45 < NotAPolecat> I used to dabble there as a guest
2008-02-16 15:45 < Turelion> But you like chess, isn't it?
2008-02-16 15:46 < NotAPolecat> Yes.
2008-02-16 15:46 < Turelion> slashem, what is your Fics-Nickname?
2008-02-16 15:46 < slashem> uh, well, I'd rather not say
2008-02-16 15:47 < Turelion> Ok, then challenge Turelion
2008-02-16 15:47 < slashem> actually I don't play chess there anymore, just chat
2008-02-16 15:47 < Turelion> Oh
2008-02-16 15:47 * NotAPolecat loves kiebitzing
2008-02-16 15:47 < NotAPolecat> but I don't even have a GUI installed any more
2008-02-16 15:47 < Turelion> I don't think, fics is good for chatting ;-)
2008-02-16 15:47 < NotAPolecat> too many...
2008-02-16 15:47 < NotAPolecat> chess players there
2008-02-16 15:48 < NotAPolecat> :-D
2008-02-16 15:48 < slashem> I know a lot of the regulars, been there a long time
2008-02-16 15:48 < Turelion> NotAPolecat, Fics works with telnet.
2008-02-16 15:48 < NotAPolecat> oh yea
2008-02-16 15:48 < slashem> there are some very smart people there, and you can talk about pretty much anything with them
2008-02-16 15:48 < NotAPolecat> but thats a pain in blitz games
2008-02-16 15:48 < Gracenotes> hey, kyorosuke. How are things?
2008-02-16 15:48 < Turelion> NotAPolecat, I don't like blitz games
2008-02-16 15:48 < NotAPolecat> I don't like the trend towards extremely short time controls.
2008-02-16 15:49 < NotAPolecat> yea, many people only play bullet now
2008-02-16 15:49 < kyorosuke> Gracenotes: Big and shiny.
2008-02-16 15:49 < Taza> Ha.
2008-02-16 15:49 < Taza> Template:Crap is still there.
2008-02-16 15:50 < NotAPolecat> "certain fish are called "jumpers", such as the dolphin"
2008-02-16 15:50 < NotAPolecat> haha
2008-02-16 15:50 < Taza> (redirected it to Template:cleanup-rewrite, because that's what it did before)
2008-02-16 15:50 * NotAPolecat reads a dictionary
2008-02-16 15:50 < DragonFire1024> 10 minutes in #wikinews-interviews
2008-02-16 15:50 < NotAPolecat> (from about 1850)
2008-02-16 15:50 < Gracenotes> kyorosuke: that's wonderful, in an creepy abstract way
2008-02-16 15:50 < NotAPolecat> A blue giraffe.
2008-02-16 15:51 < NotAPolecat> (answer to the question "how many surrealists does it take to screw in a light bulb")
2008-02-16 15:51 < Gracenotes> DragonFire1024: who?
2008-02-16 15:51 < Gracenotes> the Xenu person?
2008-02-16 15:51 < DragonFire1024> Mark Bunker
2008-02-16 15:51 < DragonFire1024> yes
2008-02-16 15:51 * Gracenotes checks it out
2008-02-16 15:52 < Taza> Wait, what?
2008-02-16 15:52 < kyorosuke> I like Spanish surrealist movies. Where people have candlelit dinners with roosters who are standing on clocks and such.
2008-02-16 15:52 < Taza> Java ISN'T annoying the bejeezus out of me. What happened?
2008-02-16 15:52 < NotAPolecat> I saw a French surrealist movie recently, it was awesome.
2008-02-16 15:53 < NotAPolecat> The slow, creeping onset of collective insanity in some kind of institution
2008-02-16 15:53 < NotAPolecat> it was pretty creepy, but brilliant.
2008-02-16 15:53 < NotAPolecat> (insanity-informed anarchy too)
2008-02-16 15:53 < zvook> title?
2008-02-16 15:53 < NotAPolecat> I don't remember, I picked it up one night
2008-02-16 15:54 < DragonFire1024> 5 minutes
2008-02-16 15:54 < NotAPolecat> but all almost impossible to trace
2008-02-16 15:54 < NotAPolecat> very silently
2008-02-16 15:54 < zvook> could they have been trapped in a church?
2008-02-16 15:54 < NotAPolecat> it might have been a church-run institution
2008-02-16 15:55 < NotAPolecat> but it was certainly an institution, something like a boarding school or a convent
2008-02-16 15:55 < NotAPolecat> it's been a while so I don't really remember
2008-02-16 15:56 < NotAPolecat> it's kind of a more radical Cuckoo's nest
2008-02-16 15:56 < zvook> heh
2008-02-16 15:58 < kyorosuke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exterminating_Angel_%28film%29
2008-02-16 16:00 < DragonFire1024> cans till join guys #wikinews-interviews
2008-02-16 16:00 < NotAPolecat> Might have been a Bunuel movie, I dunno.
2008-02-16 16:03 < zvook> yeah kyro that's the one i was thinking of
2008-02-16 16:05 < Brian_M> n
2008-02-16 16:05 < kyorosuke> it's a good one if one is in the mood
2008-02-16 16:06 < NotAPolecat> They managed *without* acid.
2008-02-16 16:06 < NotAPolecat> the type of paranoia might just as well have been helped by cocaine, I guess
2008-02-16 16:07 < clarknova> is irc.indymedia not supporting ssl connection anymore?
2008-02-16 16:08 < kyorosuke> http://www.mondo-digital.com/coffinjoe.html as far as weird Spanish cinema goes, though, Coffin Joe is my go-to
2008-02-16 16:08 < Messedrocker> black sean is on the dollar and dime
2008-02-16 16:09 < NotAPolecat> o.o das Wort zum Sonntag
2008-02-16 16:09 < Turelion> Amen
2008-02-16 16:10 < NotAPolecat> Ew
2008-02-16 16:10 < NotAPolecat> "two grand pianos filled with donkey cadavres
2008-02-16 16:13 * NotAPolecat watches boxing
2008-02-16 16:13 < Messedrocker> lord metroid!
2008-02-16 16:14 * NotAPolecat is hungry yet again
2008-02-16 16:15 < kyorosuke> Messedrocker: yo
2008-02-16 16:15 < Turelion> Have a good night
2008-02-16 16:16 < Peaker> Hey, is there any client software to make the editing process WYSIWYG/less painful?
2008-02-16 16:17 < Gracenotes> wikEd is probably the closest in-browser thing we have to WYSIWYG
2008-02-16 16:17 < Gracenotes> it's a JavaScript application...
2008-02-16 16:17 < Taza> I don't think MediaWiki is meant to be less painful under any circumstances.
2008-02-16 16:17 < Peaker> for example, I want to put a link to Python_(Programming Language) that looks like Python in the article, but don't know how to. A rich client could make that much nicer
2008-02-16 16:18 < Taza> [[Python_(Programming_Language)|Python]], IIRC.
2008-02-16 16:18 < Peaker> Yeah, a GUI can be self-explanatory though
2008-02-16 16:18 < Taza> Or that could just produce a link to Python that looks like Python_(Programming_Language)
2008-02-16 16:18 < Peaker> (and thanks)
2008-02-16 16:18 < kyorosuke> you don't even need to type the name again when you do it like that... if you write [[X (whatever)|]] it automatically becomes "X" in the article
2008-02-16 16:18 < Taza> Try the templates.
2008-02-16 16:19 < Taza> They're a royal pain in the ass to find.
2008-02-16 16:19 < Peaker> kyorosuke, Oh, I copied the rest of the link from the URL which had %28/%29 instead of (/)
2008-02-16 16:19 < Taza> I had to search for {{globalize}} for ages.
2008-02-16 16:19 < Peaker> oh wait, also underscores instead of spaces mess it up
2008-02-16 16:19 < kyorosuke> ahh
2008-02-16 16:20 < Peaker> no, with spaces it's still showing the parenthesis
2008-02-16 16:20 < Taza> And I linked {{crap}} to {{cleanup-rewrite}} to make things *a little easier*
2008-02-16 16:20 < Taza> Because remembering "cleanup-rewrite" when I'm thinking "this article is utter crap" is kinda tricky. :P
2008-02-16 16:22 < missingno000> hi all
2008-02-16 16:22 < missingno000> happy saturday
2008-02-16 16:22 < Peaker> I hate the web :-( I want WYSIWYG software
2008-02-16 16:23 < Taza> I'd just prefer normal html
2008-02-16 16:25 < missingno000> Peaker: For what?
2008-02-16 16:25 < Peaker> missingno000, For everything
2008-02-16 16:27 < Peaker> I dislike HTML too.. its a bad computer-encoding (in terms of space efficiency, and the difficulty of parsing it), and its a bad human language to describe pages with (WYSIWYG editors should be the only human language, IMO)
2008-02-16 16:27 < Taza> I HATE wysiwyg
2008-02-16 16:27 < kyorosuke> it may just be because I have no interest in such things, but I sort of figured out the basics of wikipedia while having no experience with other types of markup or such. In contrast, another wiki I visit uses a totally different software that I have great trouble using. Meh.
2008-02-16 16:28 < DannyLilithborne> WYSIWYG is lame
2008-02-16 16:28 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-02-16 16:28 < Peaker> Taza, why?
2008-02-16 16:28 < Peaker> Danny_B, why?
2008-02-16 16:28 < Taza> Peaker: Excessive GUI
2008-02-16 16:28 < Peaker> Taza, don't you want to know how what you're editing looks?
2008-02-16 16:29 < Peaker> Taza, and immediately see the effects of editing?
2008-02-16 16:29 < DannyLilithborne> yes, WYSIWYG has ushered in an era of lazy computing and lazy computer users
2008-02-16 16:29 < Taza> I know ahead of time most of the time.
2008-02-16 16:29 < Taza> And to immediately see - most definately NOT.
2008-02-16 16:29 < DannyLilithborne> 'immediately' being used loosely, of course
2008-02-16 16:29 < Peaker> laziness is a virtue :-)
2008-02-16 16:29 < Taza> Yeah, but I hate rendering previews.
2008-02-16 16:30 < Peaker> Humans should delegate as much work as possible to a computer
2008-02-16 16:30 < Taza> Especially for a work in progress.
2008-02-16 16:30 < DannyLilithborne> more like 'whenever your overloaded system catches up to it'
2008-02-16 16:30 < Peaker> Taza, Why hate it?
2008-02-16 16:30 < Taza> Because it uses excessive power for no good reason.
2008-02-16 16:30 < Taza> I have better things to do with my CPU cycles than have a piece of software guess what I'm doing.
2008-02-16 16:30 < Peaker> well, ofcourse a non-WYSIWYG that works is better than one that crawls... There's no reason for WYSIWYG to be slow on hardware from later than 1999
2008-02-16 16:30 < DannyLilithborne> Peaker: it's exactly that kind of thinking that caused Judgment Day in 2001 and computers to be our current overlords ^.^
2008-02-16 16:30 < DannyLilithborne> lol
2008-02-16 16:30 < Peaker> Taza, Its not "guessing" anything, what do you mean?
2008-02-16 16:30 < DannyLilithborne> tell that to windows vista
2008-02-16 16:30 < Gracenotes> Taza: I don't like WYSIWYG either. I'd prefer to learn the markup language myself...
2008-02-16 16:31 < Taza> Previews.
2008-02-16 16:31 < kyorosuke> yeah, see, perspective.
2008-02-16 16:31 < Peaker> Taza, Its not a "preview", its just the "document"
2008-02-16 16:31 < Peaker> Taza, in a WYSIWYG editor
2008-02-16 16:31 < Taza> Even worse.
2008-02-16 16:31 < Peaker> Taza, why?
2008-02-16 16:31 < Taza> I want to tinker with things behind it.
2008-02-16 16:31 < DannyLilithborne> HTML is fine, although i kinda agree on the space efficiency thing
2008-02-16 16:31 < Taza> Plus, gui. Ack.
2008-02-16 16:31 < Taza> I like html
2008-02-16 16:32 < Taza> I can fire up any ascii-capable editor and edit html right away.
2008-02-16 16:32 < DannyLilithborne> but that's nothing that good compression won't solve
2008-02-16 16:32 < mavhc> you really need WYSIWYThink, wysiwyg, but with structure, like Techwriter does
2008-02-16 16:32 < DannyLilithborne> and yeah... i can edit HTML pages in notepad without any need of a wysiwyg system
2008-02-16 16:32 < mavhc> you can, but that's often stupid
2008-02-16 16:32 < slashem> this has long been known as the DWIM instruction, "do what I mean"
2008-02-16 16:33 < slashem> back in the days when we were all assembly programmers
2008-02-16 16:33 < Peaker> Taza, People hate GUI's because GUI's were simply implemented badly
2008-02-16 16:33 < mavhc> they just haven't used a good gui
2008-02-16 16:33 < Taza> Peaker: How about me genuinely enjoying using a commandline?
2008-02-16 16:33 < DannyLilithborne> mavhc: explain?
2008-02-16 16:33 < NotAPolecat> Everyone who doesn't edit Wikipedia in assembler code is a pussy, obviously.
2008-02-16 16:33 < Taza> Show me a gui with pipe.
2008-02-16 16:33 < Peaker> Taza, The command line is "enjoyable" because it is programmable. GUI's should be programmable too, but they simply suck as of yet.
2008-02-16 16:33 < NotAPolecat> at least not a real man
2008-02-16 16:33 < DannyLilithborne> how is editing using a word processor that adds tons of needless markup better than using notepad?
2008-02-16 16:33 < Peaker> Taza, I use the command line too, until I implement a programmable GUI :-)
2008-02-16 16:34 < Peaker> Taza, Subtextual is a GUI with a pipe :)
2008-02-16 16:34 < Taza> Peaker: How are you going to implement pipe FASTER than a command line?
2008-02-16 16:34 < Taza> Learn2Type
2008-02-16 16:34 < Peaker> Taza, simple, associate key bindings with connection of objects
2008-02-16 16:34 < Peaker> Taza, requiring less keys than textually encoding your intention into a command in the line
2008-02-16 16:34 < Taza> ... and how is that any easier than using a commandline?
2008-02-16 16:35 < NotAPolecat> I sometimes get a feeling that programmers don't realize that non-programmers edit Wikipedia.
2008-02-16 16:35 < Peaker> Danny_B, Notepad doesn't let you edit the kind of information a word processor does
2008-02-16 16:35 < Taza> Yes it can.
2008-02-16 16:35 < mavhc> there's at least 8 GUI versions of pipe
2008-02-16 16:35 < Taza> You just need to code the markup in.
2008-02-16 16:35 < DannyLilithborne> and how is 'del document' less efficient than opening windows explorer, going to documents, scrolling down to the document you want, clicking on hit and hitting delete then going to empty the recycle bin?
2008-02-16 16:35 < Taza> Wildcards. Pipe.
2008-02-16 16:36 < DannyLilithborne> Peaker: in HTML?
2008-02-16 16:36 < Taza> Neither of which I've seen a decent GUI implementation of.
2008-02-16 16:36 < mavhc> because you already have the dir window open, and your cli isn't in the right dir
2008-02-16 16:36 < Peaker> Danny_B, Editing HTML with notepad is clearly inferior to editing a document in a word processor
2008-02-16 16:36 < mavhc> obviously what you need is the choice of using either
2008-02-16 16:36 < Taza> "clearly inferior"
2008-02-16 16:36 < Lubaf> [[Wikipedia:Die die die die die die die die die die die die die die die!!!!]]
2008-02-16 16:36 < Taza> I happen to like it more in notepad, notepad doesn't do anything "smartly"
2008-02-16 16:36 < DannyLilithborne> Peaker: making a document that you intend to print out, maybe
2008-02-16 16:36 < DannyLilithborne> creating a webpage for public use?
2008-02-16 16:36 < DannyLilithborne> you're wrong wrong wrong
2008-02-16 16:36 < mavhc> what you want is something like http://www.iconsupport.demon.co.uk/Products/TechWriter/TechWriter%20pro.html
2008-02-16 16:37 < Taza> Peaker: NEVER touch web design btw.
2008-02-16 16:37 < Lubaf> Yes, that is "the" 15 times in German.
2008-02-16 16:37 < Lubaf> "The Bart, The"
2008-02-16 16:37 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-02-16 16:37 < DannyLilithborne> stole my line
2008-02-16 16:37 < DannyLilithborne> no one who speaks German could be an evil man
2008-02-16 16:37 < Peaker> Taza, No problem, I think the web is a horrible thing, and want to replace it :)
2008-02-16 16:37 < Taza> I hope you never succeed.
2008-02-16 16:37 < Taza> I *LIKE* the web.
2008-02-16 16:37 < mavhc> 50 million germans can't be wrong...twice
2008-02-16 16:37 < Peaker> Danny_B, The following reasons: A) Notepad/HTML will easily generate bad documents, error-prone B) Notepad/HTML require a larger "debug cycle" of testing with the browser, instead of immediate feedback. C) Notepad/HTML take much more work for the same amount of editing, where work is measured by key persses
2008-02-16 16:38 < DannyLilithborne> yes, we should replace it with Gopher, the ancient and much less efficient predecessor to WWW
2008-02-16 16:38 < Danny_B> Peaker: please check the nick you're writing to, thanks
2008-02-16 16:38 < Taza> Peaker: Totally wrong, Totally wrong, Right but irrelevant.
2008-02-16 16:38 < Peaker> Danny_B, No, we should replace it with network-transparency between objects in normal software
2008-02-16 16:38 < DannyLilithborne> Peaker: you obviously do not have talent in web design
2008-02-16 16:38 < mavhc> writing html in notepad or a word processor is insane
2008-02-16 16:38 < Peaker> Danny_B, sorry!
2008-02-16 16:38 < Peaker> DannyLilithborne, What I wrote to Danny_B was for you
2008-02-16 16:38 < Taza> mavhc: No it's not, if you have even an ounce of skill.
2008-02-16 16:38 < DannyLilithborne> when i write a webpage in notepad, i know how it will look and don't need to debug
2008-02-16 16:38 < mavhc> a) notepad sucks, get an editor with sytax colouring, validation, built in html rendering
2008-02-16 16:39 < Taza> I do if I write complex php, but not otherwise.
2008-02-16 16:39 < Taza> mavhc: WHY?!?
2008-02-16 16:39 < DannyLilithborne> you know, as long as i remember to close all my tags, i am fine
2008-02-16 16:39 < Taza> "Get something that'll interrupt you and use excess cpu cycles"
2008-02-16 16:39 < mavhc> to reduce errors
2008-02-16 16:39 < DannyLilithborne> built in html rendering = adding lots of unnecessary tags
2008-02-16 16:39 < mavhc> or are you perfect?
2008-02-16 16:39 < Taza> Well, I don't make enough errors to make up for that.
2008-02-16 16:39 < Taza> Syntax colouring sucks most of the time too, even if it can be done right.
2008-02-16 16:39 < mavhc> DannyLilithborne: it just renders what you've typed when you click the render button
2008-02-16 16:39 < DannyLilithborne> babies, the lot of you
2008-02-16 16:40 < Taza> Built-in html rendering is an IDIOTIC idea.
2008-02-16 16:40 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-02-16 16:40 < Taza> It's one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard.
2008-02-16 16:40 < mavhc> so you want to invoke another program to render?
2008-02-16 16:40 < DannyLilithborne> you must have also thought that little MS Word Clippy thing was a great idea
2008-02-16 16:40 < DannyLilithborne> there already is one
2008-02-16 16:40 < DannyLilithborne> it's called a web browser :P
2008-02-16 16:40 < Taza> mavhc: YES.
2008-02-16 16:40 < Peaker> Taza, Do you realize that its technically possible to make something that is both WYSIWYG, and non-intrusive? And that the CPU cycles argument is moot, document rendering in WYSIWYG mode does not take long at all (unless it goes through HTML form in between)
2008-02-16 16:40 < Taza> mavhc: I try my renders in at least Opera and Firefox.
2008-02-16 16:40 < mavhc> I've not installed the assistant part of MS Office on over 300 computers
2008-02-16 16:41 < Peaker> Taza, How is the idea dumb?
2008-02-16 16:41 < Taza> Peaker: I run on sub-700mhz machines.
2008-02-16 16:41 < mavhc> why?
2008-02-16 16:41 < quanticle> mavhc: Yes. The entire point is that you write the HTML, then use the browser to render it, and go back and forth.
2008-02-16 16:41 < Taza> Peaker: Because try rendering html in an editor like it renders in browsers.
2008-02-16 16:41 < Peaker> Taza, and?
2008-02-16 16:41 < Taza> Peaker: If you think this is even REMOTELY possible, you need a crash-course in web design, stat.
2008-02-16 16:41 < mavhc> quanticle: and you integrate the browser rendering into the editor so you don't have to save/switch app/reload/get pissed about the cache
2008-02-16 16:42 < Taza> Plus, it adds a load of extra work.
2008-02-16 16:42 < Taza> mavhc: You're an idiot.
2008-02-16 16:42 < mavhc> prove it
2008-02-16 16:42 * NotAPolecat walks away from the abrasive tone
2008-02-16 16:42 < DannyLilithborne> man...
2008-02-16 16:42 < Taza> mavhc: I know that's ad hominem but obviously you're aversive to the concept of proof.
2008-02-16 16:42 < Peaker> Taza, I don't do web design, the web is horrible, I would rather instead work on a better alternative
2008-02-16 16:42 < DannyLilithborne> all i wanted was a pepsi!
2008-02-16 16:42 < mavhc> Taza: prove it
2008-02-16 16:43 < missingno000> Peaker: Define everything.
2008-02-16 16:43 < Taza> Peaker: You're naive about anything relating to design and have no understanding of factors affecting real-world design.
2008-02-16 16:43 < mavhc> in the real world approx 0% of web pages are written using notepad
2008-02-16 16:43 < Peaker> Taza, your statement is lacking in merit
2008-02-16 16:43 < geniice> mavhc not true
2008-02-16 16:43 < DannyLilithborne> i seem to recall someone getting called stupid for prefering to build html in notepad
2008-02-16 16:43 < Taza> mavhc: Proof, please.
2008-02-16 16:43 < Peaker> missingno000, In what context?
2008-02-16 16:43 < DannyLilithborne> lol
2008-02-16 16:43 < geniice> mavhc I've written webpages in notepad
2008-02-16 16:43 < mavhc> oh, I have to prove things
2008-02-16 16:43 < Taza> I write all my webpages in notepad.
2008-02-16 16:43 < missingno000> I like WYSIWYG for writing and DTP (because it's easier than coding RTF or LaTeX by hand), but I prefer coding by hand in C++ and Java (except GUI code... woof).
2008-02-16 16:44 < Taza> As do some web design company *execs* that I know.
2008-02-16 16:44 < mavhc> geniice: I write all my websites in text editors, but not notepad, that's a crap app
2008-02-16 16:44 < geniice> I didn't say they were good webpages
2008-02-16 16:44 < mavhc> it has no features
2008-02-16 16:44 < DannyLilithborne> mavhc seems to only have surfed commercial websites full of php and javajunk
2008-02-16 16:44 < Peaker> Taza, Writing web pages in notepad is something that will be looked at as archaic and stone-age'ish in just 5-10 years from now
2008-02-16 16:44 < Taza> DannyLilithborne: asp, php is goodie when used restrictively.
2008-02-16 16:44 < Taza> Peaker: So?
2008-02-16 16:44 < mavhc> DannyLilithborne: that's over 99.5% of websites
2008-02-16 16:44 < geniice> mavhc features would jsut mean more things I didn't understand
2008-02-16 16:44 < Taza> Peaker: It *works*
2008-02-16 16:44 < kyorosuke> I don't write webpages at all, so there
2008-02-16 16:44 < DannyLilithborne> mavhc: and?
2008-02-16 16:44 < Peaker> Taza, except for some WYSIWYG editors that happen to be slow (because their implementors were incompetent), what advantage does notepad/HTML have over WYSIWYG?
2008-02-16 16:44 < mavhc> DannyLilithborne: so my approx 0% is proven
2008-02-16 16:45 < Taza> Peaker: First, let's make that "all" wysiwyg editors.
2008-02-16 16:45 < Taza> Also, HTML makes it easier to customize for different layouts and systems.
2008-02-16 16:45 < DannyLilithborne> mavhc: yes, made-up stats prove everything :D
2008-02-16 16:45 < Peaker> Taza, hmm, even Microsoft Word, or abiword, and a few others, edit wysiwyg documents without being very slow
2008-02-16 16:45 < Taza> Writing valid HTML that's also optimized is MUCH easier with notepad or a text editor.
2008-02-16 16:45 < mavhc> you can write a fast wysiwyg editor for an 8MHz CPU, it's not going to hard for a 1GHz cpu
2008-02-16 16:46 < Taza> Peaker: They're BOTH slow.
2008-02-16 16:46 < DannyLilithborne> wow
2008-02-16 16:46 < Taza> mavhc: I don't use 1ghz CPU's.
2008-02-16 16:46 < Peaker> Taza, they're not very slow. abiword especially is pretty fast
2008-02-16 16:46 < DannyLilithborne> I'd like to visit your fantasy land someday
2008-02-16 16:46 < mavhc> taza: why?
2008-02-16 16:46 < Taza> I use the absolute minimum of processing power, for other factors.
2008-02-16 16:46 < Taza> Such as portability and price.
2008-02-16 16:46 < clarknova> [[Poker]] <<== test of my linking script, not germane to conversation.
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> I've, in fact, thought about restoring some Pentium-era machines.
2008-02-16 16:47 < Peaker> Taza, have you tried abiword on your hardware?
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> Add Debian Stable, X and IceWM.
2008-02-16 16:47 < DannyLilithborne> didn't people predict at one point that in 5-10 years paper would be obsolete?
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> Peaker: Yes, it was slow.
2008-02-16 16:47 < mavhc> my main computer is a 202MHz ARM, its wysiwyg editors are fast
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> DannyLilithborne: Indeed they did.
2008-02-16 16:47 < Peaker> Taza, What specifically was slow?
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> Peaker: Opening time, GUI changes.
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> Including scrolling page.
2008-02-16 16:47 < Taza> Resizing CPU and such.
2008-02-16 16:48 < mavhc> DannyLilithborne: I don't use paper
2008-02-16 16:48 < Taza> Plus, I'd write code that looks the same MUCH faster with HTML than WYSIWYG.
2008-02-16 16:48 < Peaker> Taza, I remember happily using Word processors on hardware back in 2000 and so, and its very fast
2008-02-16 16:48 < mavhc> taza: you're going to write all websites ever then?
2008-02-16 16:48 < Taza> Peaker: I have non-optimal hardware for 2000 standards.
2008-02-16 16:48 < mavhc> Peaker: I raise you 1987
2008-02-16 16:48 < Peaker> Taza, Lets define your effort at writing a document, as the number of keys you have to press to create it, ok?
2008-02-16 16:48 < Taza> Peaker: Why?
2008-02-16 16:49 < Peaker> Taza, How else do you want to define the effort required?
2008-02-16 16:49 < Taza> I find more effort in switching over to a mouse than writing a full sentence.
2008-02-16 16:49 < Peaker> Taza, I want to demonstrate that WYSIWYG take significantly less effort
2008-02-16 16:49 < Taza> That's kinda hard.
2008-02-16 16:49 < Peaker> Taza, There's no need for a mouse in a WYSIWYG editor
2008-02-16 16:49 < mavhc> I hear microsoft is thinking of adding keyboard shortcuts to its programs
2008-02-16 16:49 < Taza> Seeing using a keyboard takes next to no effort for me whereas a mouse is very slow.
2008-02-16 16:49 < Peaker> mavhc, I used Word with virtually no mouse access
2008-02-16 16:49 < mavhc> is your mouse in another room?
2008-02-16 16:49 < DannyLilithborne> well, there already are keyboard shortcuts
2008-02-16 16:50 < Peaker> Taza, That's a common misconception - that a GUI implies use of a mouse
2008-02-16 16:50 < Taza> Peaker: I do not necessarily want to learn nonstandardized keyboard shortcuts either where I can write the markup code with the same effort.
2008-02-16 16:50 < DannyLilithborne> y'know, Alt+F, S or whatnot
2008-02-16 16:50 < mavhc> maybe your ancient computer has no mouse port