freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-14 02:05 < brown_cat> ah :)
2008-02-14 02:06 * Ceiling_Cat is in ur computer, making it go faster
2008-02-14 02:09 < Ceiling_Cat> goodnight folks
2008-02-14 02:10 < nokmar> bye
2008-02-14 02:10 < Hpfan9374> Goodbye
2008-02-14 02:10 < Mike_H> bye
2008-02-14 02:11 < Hpfan9374> Does anyone want to help me find references to make a featured list, its already failed nomination twice?
2008-02-14 02:11 * brown_cat cuddles Ceiling_Cat
2008-02-14 02:11 < Hpfan9374> .. and it has been peer reviewed and is currently in its section peer review?
2008-02-14 02:15 < Ceiling_Cat> thanks brown_cat
2008-02-14 02:15 < Ceiling_Cat> goodnight :)
2008-02-14 02:15 < brown_cat> :)
2008-02-14 02:20 < Hpfan9374> Can someone please help me find references to make a featured list, its "Harry and the Potters discography"
2008-02-14 02:22 < Mark_Away> that's a 'no'.
2008-02-14 02:22 * Mike_H NP: Elton John - Mama Can't Buy You Love (1979)
2008-02-14 04:47 < yao_ziyuan> sfdjkl asdkfj irfewi kajdsfk iwer d askd iew ier akdsjf asf.
2008-02-14 04:49 < Mike_H> yes.
2008-02-14 04:50 < OverlordQ> you dont say
2008-02-14 04:51 < yao_ziyuan> OverlordQ: ewkj wefj?
2008-02-14 04:52 < OverlordQ> Do you enjoy talking about ewkj?
2008-02-14 04:52 < yao_ziyuan> OverlordQ: uweh.
2008-02-14 04:52 < OverlordQ> Please (do not)continue
2008-02-14 04:54 * OverlordQ didn't think that'd work
2008-02-14 04:57 < zero1328> OverlordQ, ergho segho ;livy sum?
2008-02-14 04:57 < synsoul> igpay atinlay?
2008-02-14 04:57 < zero1328> hsirebbig
2008-02-14 04:58 < synsoul> ja
2008-02-14 04:58 < zero1328> mhh... wbno bue aeogihsr til!!!
2008-02-14 04:59 < zero1328> O s, brtu nptrf..
2008-02-14 05:00 < OverlordQ> O_o
2008-02-14 05:00 < synsoul> [^_^]
2008-02-14 05:00 * OverlordQ slaps the channel with an Imperial Star Destroyer
2008-02-14 05:01 * zero1328 slaps OverlordQ with OverlordQ
2008-02-14 05:01 * OverlordQ deflects himself
2008-02-14 05:02 < zero1328> great, you killed Thx!
2008-02-14 05:02 < Mike_H> yw
2008-02-14 05:03 < OverlordQ> wow what country code is .bj? first spam I got from there I think
2008-02-14 05:04 < Mike_H> .bj is the Internet country code top-level domain (ccTLD) for Benin.
2008-02-14 05:09 < E_Wing> Hi guys
2008-02-14 05:10 < E_Wing> Is it ok to modify this user's previous warnings?
2008-02-14 05:10 < E_Wing> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:217.65.238.5
2008-02-14 05:40 * brown_cat was clotheslined by his ipod earphones :'(
2008-02-14 06:33 < PeanutHorst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Apollonian_gasket.gif <-- I truly think that would be better made as a Vector image
2008-02-14 06:43 < PeanutHorst> what's the project for wikipedia graphics?
2008-02-14 06:49 < brown_cat> PeanutHorst: what type of graphics?
2008-02-14 06:50 < PeanutHorst> brown_cat: the one that makes vector graphics
2008-02-14 06:50 < PeanutHorst> the graphics lab, wikipedia calls it
2008-02-14 06:51 < brown_cat> PeanutHorst: ohhhhh, ummm, ummm...
2008-02-14 06:51 * brown_cat knows this
2008-02-14 06:51 * brown_cat hits his head on the table trying to remember
2008-02-14 06:51 < brown_cat> I think the url is in {{svg}}
2008-02-14 06:52 * brown_cat scares NotASpy >:D
2008-02-14 06:53 < PeanutHorst> [[Wikipedia:Graphic Lab]]
2008-02-14 06:59 < PeanutHorst> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Images_to_improve#Apollonian_Gasket
2008-02-14 07:16 < NotASuva> OMG WIKIPEDIA IS DOWN!
2008-02-14 07:16 < NotASuva> No, it isn't
2008-02-14 07:19 * brown_cat bursts into flames
2008-02-14 07:19 * brown_cat screams
2008-02-14 07:20 * Werdna waves
2008-02-14 07:21 * PeanutHorst licks Werdna
2008-02-14 07:21 * brown_cat continues to burn
2008-02-14 07:21 * brown_cat sits on PeanutHorst's lap
2008-02-14 07:42 < ml4macdo> blah
2008-02-14 07:43 * brown_cat gives ml4macdo a flower
2008-02-14 07:43 < ml4macdo> wow, thanks
2008-02-14 07:44 < brown_cat> :D
2008-02-14 07:44 * brown_cat sits, pleased with himseld
2008-02-14 07:44 < brown_cat> f
2008-02-14 07:44 * brown_cat says sorry to all the black people
2008-02-14 07:44 * brown_cat is like the australian govt :)
2008-02-14 07:46 < ml4macdo> it took me about 20 minutes to figure out how to use IRC..
2008-02-14 07:46 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-02-14 07:46 < ml4macdo> but i did it because wikipedia told me to
2008-02-14 07:46 < brown_cat> :p
2008-02-14 07:46 < brown_cat> ml4macdo: do you know the chatzilla basics?
2008-02-14 07:46 < ml4macdo> nope
2008-02-14 07:47 < ml4macdo> i barely know what chatzilla is
2008-02-14 07:47 < brown_cat> type the first few letters of my name, then press tab :)
2008-02-14 07:47 < ml4macdo> brown_cat: okay
2008-02-14 07:47 < ml4macdo> brown_cat: what does that do?
2008-02-14 07:47 < brown_cat> it completes my name :)
2008-02-14 07:47 < brown_cat> chatzilla is a client, like msn or yahoo messenger :) it uses irc as a protocool
2008-02-14 07:47 < brown_cat> if you type "/join wikinews" it takes you to the wikinews channel
2008-02-14 07:47 < brown_cat> you can do this with all the channels
2008-02-14 07:48 < ml4macdo> right..
2008-02-14 07:48 < ml4macdo> so what's the difference between this and, say, mIRC?
2008-02-14 07:48 < ml4macdo> (which i know nothing about)
2008-02-14 07:49 < ml4macdo> does people using mIRC see our conversations?
2008-02-14 07:50 < brown_cat> that is another type of client
2008-02-14 07:51 < brown_cat> there are different types of clients but they essentially do the same thing - display this channel :)
2008-02-14 07:51 < brown_cat> and others
2008-02-14 07:51 < ml4macdo> right, but you asked me if i knew the chatzilla basics - how did you know i'm using chatzilla?
2008-02-14 07:52 < brown_cat> because, I whois'd you - "/whois ml4macdo"
2008-02-14 07:52 < brown_cat> by default, I can see what client you are using
2008-02-14 07:52 < brown_cat> but, if you change your default info, I can't see
2008-02-14 07:54 < ml4macdo> i see
2008-02-14 07:54 < ml4macdo> thanks
2008-02-14 07:54 * brown_cat wonders where sfan00 is today
2008-02-14 07:55 * brown_cat waves to White_Cat
2008-02-14 07:56 * White_Cat dodges and uses swift
2008-02-14 07:56 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-02-14 07:57 * White_Cat uses and attack
2008-02-14 07:57 < White_Cat> *sand
2008-02-14 07:57 * White_Cat uses leer
2008-02-14 07:57 * White_Cat uses screach
2008-02-14 07:57 * brown_cat fills the channel with foam
2008-02-14 07:58 < brown_cat> xD ml4macdo must think we're mad
2008-02-14 07:59 < ml4macdo> indeed
2008-02-14 07:59 * Brown_Cat spays White_Cat
2008-02-14 07:59 < ml4macdo> so what usually happens on this channel?
2008-02-14 07:59 < ml4macdo> cats fighting?
2008-02-14 07:59 * White_Cat screaches, leers and sand attacks till Brown_Cat's accuracy and defense falls near 0
2008-02-14 08:00 * White_Cat uses swift till Brown_Cat faints
2008-02-14 08:00 < Brown_Cat> ml4macdo: no, usually wikipedia talk, fighting, users threatening each other, it is pretty fun
2008-02-14 08:00 * White_Cat threatens Brown_Cat with legal action
2008-02-14 08:00 < Brown_Cat> you can join other channels (there are loads, /join thesubject
2008-02-14 08:00 * Brown_Cat sends zombie jesus after White_Cat
2008-02-14 08:00 * White_Cat dodges and uses lick
2008-02-14 08:01 < ml4macdo> is there a listing of these channels somewhere?
2008-02-14 08:01 < White_Cat> try /list
2008-02-14 08:01 < Brown_Cat> White_Cat: that will make his pc explode xD
2008-02-14 08:01 < SinSeer> heh yah some clients can't handle that
2008-02-14 08:02 < SinSeer> try /list -min 20
2008-02-14 08:02 < SinSeer> to show channels with 20 or more people, and cut out some of the excess garbage... i believe chatzilla supports it ;)
2008-02-14 08:03 < ml4macdo> hmm.. it doesn't seems to like the -min 20 thing
2008-02-14 08:03 < SinSeer> yah, i wasn't sure
2008-02-14 08:03 < SinSeer> most real clients will, but that's a browser based client.... not so good
2008-02-14 08:03 < SinSeer> better than a kick in the arse though, and it gets ya here ;)
2008-02-14 08:03 * Brown_Cat slaps SinSeer silly
2008-02-14 08:03 < Brown_Cat> chatzilla rocks my world
2008-02-14 08:03 < SinSeer> chatzilla is limited, no offense ;)
2008-02-14 08:04 < SinSeer> although i will grant that it IS easy to set up and get newbies to use :)
2008-02-14 08:04 < ml4macdo> like me :)
2008-02-14 08:04 < SinSeer> exactly
2008-02-14 08:04 < SinSeer> whatever gets ya online, is all good by me
2008-02-14 08:04 < SinSeer> you might be able to just type /list, it's not actually THAT big here
2008-02-14 08:04 < SinSeer> and most of the newer clients have made changes to allow the system to not flood ya off
2008-02-14 08:05 < ml4macdo> it doesn't let me - server load is too heavy
2008-02-14 08:05 < SinSeer> if it boots ya, just do the same thing ya did to come back. or hit irc://irc.freenode.org/wikipedia in your firefox
2008-02-14 08:05 < SinSeer> and that'll load ya right into here
2008-02-14 08:06 < SinSeer> drag :)
2008-02-14 08:07 < ml4macdo> that's alright; http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_channels seems to have a list
2008-02-14 08:07 < SinSeer> http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode
2008-02-14 08:08 < Viele-baeren> admin?
2008-02-14 08:08 < SinSeer> oh wow, haha, that link i just posted does nothing, sorry.... just got it direct from the faq ;)
2008-02-14 08:13 * Viele-baeren needs the help on an admin!!
2008-02-14 08:14 < Brown_Cat> !admin@wikiepdia
2008-02-14 08:14 * Brown_Cat hopes that works
2008-02-14 08:14 < NotASpy> yeah
2008-02-14 08:15 < Viele-baeren> NotASpy: are you admin?
2008-02-14 08:15 < Viele-baeren> hi Brown_Cat
2008-02-14 08:15 < NotASpy> yea
2008-02-14 08:15 < J_Milburn> Brown_Cat: #wikipedia-en is a better bet, usually.
2008-02-14 08:15 < Viele-baeren> :)
2008-02-14 08:15 < Brown_Cat> Viele-baeren needed attention
2008-02-14 08:15 < Viele-baeren> NotASpy: tell me please, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3APreussen-Siegel.jpg was it fair use?
2008-02-14 08:16 < Viele-baeren> ups, sorry
2008-02-14 08:16 < Viele-baeren> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:BPrinz2.jpg&action=edit
2008-02-14 08:16 < Viele-baeren> that was meant
2008-02-14 08:18 < NotASpy> not fair use, had a GFDL / CC-BY licence, which looks to have been incorrect.
2008-02-14 08:19 < Viele-baeren> NotASpy: was there a source?
2008-02-14 08:19 < NotASpy> no source.
2008-02-14 08:19 < Viele-baeren> ok, thanks
2008-02-14 08:31 * Brown_Cat goes to bed
2008-02-14 08:32 * Brown_Cat rolls up in a ball
2008-02-14 08:43 < Hildanknight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:SGpedians'_notice_board#National_Day_celebrations_on_Wikipedia
2008-02-14 08:43 < Hildanknight> Regarding Jacklee's comment, is there any policy against this?
2008-02-14 08:44 < Hildanknight> Going for a shower. I'll read your responses when I'm back.
2008-02-14 08:51 < zvook> it's in line with policy if it's FA and DYK directed
2008-02-14 08:52 < zvook> DYK pretty much always gets tons of entries about one thing anyhow, as a DYKer gets interested in an area.
2008-02-14 09:12 < Hildanknight> Back.
2008-02-14 09:12 < Hildanknight> Thanks for the response.
2008-02-14 09:16 < Fabexplosive> hello
2008-02-14 09:39 < NotACow> DOOBIE
2008-02-14 10:08 < bumm13> haha, this spam message is cute:
2008-02-14 10:08 < bumm13> "Delta --- Get a $1000 Delta Gift Card!"
2008-02-14 10:08 < bumm13> but the good part is:
2008-02-14 10:08 < bumm13> (Date) Fri Feb 13, 2037
2008-02-14 10:10 < quanticle> bumm13: Heh.
2008-02-14 10:10 < bumm13> \o/
2008-02-14 10:12 < bumm13> it's way too damn quiet in here :P
2008-02-14 10:13 * bumm13 NP: Jimi Hendrix - Have You Ever Been (To Electric Ladyland) (1968)
2008-02-14 10:31 < Viele-baeren> cu
2008-02-14 11:03 < MessedRocker> hello slaves
2008-02-14 11:04 * quanticle smacks MessedRocker
2008-02-14 11:04 < quanticle> Who're you calling a slave?
2008-02-14 11:04 < MessedRocker> hi quantizer
2008-02-14 11:04 < dungodung> it's hare!
2008-02-14 11:05 < MessedRocker> it's serb!
2008-02-14 11:05 < MessedRocker> what is it again...
2008-02-14 11:06 < MessedRocker> popovic?
2008-02-14 11:07 < MessedRocker> test
2008-02-14 11:14 < NotACow> blap blap
2008-02-14 11:15 < elusive_p> coward
2008-02-14 11:15 < MessedRocker> go blap yourself
2008-02-14 11:17 < Leslie_S> rofl. my digital camera turned off because the batteries were low. Lens retracts, screen says "Change the batteries.", and then goes blank.
2008-02-14 11:17 < Leslie_S> rofl rofl
2008-02-14 11:18 < MessedRocker> what's so rofl about that
2008-02-14 11:18 < Leslie_S> the "change the batteries"
2008-02-14 11:19 < elusive_p> leslie: last revalation commentary
2008-02-14 11:20 < IamZodiac> hi
2008-02-14 11:20 < elusive_p> hi IamZodac
2008-02-14 11:20 < MessedRocker> change haha
2008-02-14 11:21 < MessedRocker> its a rechargable innit?
2008-02-14 11:21 < IamZodiac> i'm trying to write a application which uses wikipedia
2008-02-14 11:21 < ml4macdo> wikipedia rules
2008-02-14 11:21 < IamZodiac> i was wondering what would be a good way to look for articles whose name begin with certain letters
2008-02-14 11:22 < IamZodiac> i've tried http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixindex&from=gand&namespace=0
2008-02-14 11:22 < IamZodiac> but i want the first 10 results, no more
2008-02-14 11:22 < MessedRocker> maybe with a regex?
2008-02-14 11:22 < MessedRocker> oh
2008-02-14 11:22 < IamZodiac> it's for a sort of a google suggest like thingy
2008-02-14 11:22 < NotACow> YAR
2008-02-14 11:23 < IamZodiac> user types in letters and we show him possible matches in a div
2008-02-14 11:24 < IamZodiac> any ideas fellas
2008-02-14 11:24 < IamZodiac> or should i be asking elsewhere?
2008-02-14 11:24 < ml4macdo> why don't you just read the first ten articles from the full listing?
2008-02-14 11:25 < NotACow> IamZodiac: are you proposing this as an addition to wikipedia, or for your own wiki?
2008-02-14 11:26 < NotACow> IamZodiac: you might find that the api can provide what you want.
2008-02-14 11:26 < IamZodiac> my own web application
2008-02-14 11:26 < NotACow> IamZodiac: you shoud NEVER scrape wikicontent if the api can provide the same data; your code will be faster and wikipedia's servers will thank you
2008-02-14 11:26 < kenlyric> http://youtube.com/watch?v=wZPdwXgwf1Y want this game
2008-02-14 11:26 < IamZodiac> NotACow: where can i read up on the api
2008-02-14 11:27 < NotACow> IamZodiac: i don't recall. ask on #mediawiki perhaps.
2008-02-14 11:29 < Demi> IamZodiac - download.wikimedia.org has dumps of just article names as well, ns0 blah blah
2008-02-14 11:30 < IamZodiac> Demi: yea, but then the search won't be in real time, those are months old
2008-02-14 11:30 < Demi> even the name dumps? those used to be pretty timely
2008-02-14 11:31 < bumm13> hiya Demi
2008-02-14 11:31 < Demi> hi bumm13
2008-02-14 11:31 < MessedRocker> hi bummo
2008-02-14 11:31 < ml4macdo> hello
2008-02-14 11:32 < bumm13> hiya MessedRocker
2008-02-14 11:32 < bumm13> you gotta love how The Clash pretend to play their guitars in the Rock the Casbah video :P
2008-02-14 11:32 < IamZodiac> aha
2008-02-14 11:32 < IamZodiac> thank you NotACow
2008-02-14 11:32 < MessedRocker> god damn
2008-02-14 11:32 < bumm13> (since the song is basically 80s technopop)
2008-02-14 11:33 < IamZodiac> i got my answer
2008-02-14 11:33 < MessedRocker> restaurant reservations were made without my auspices
2008-02-14 11:33 < bumm13> hmm?
2008-02-14 11:33 < Demi> a restaurant outing on valentine's day? original: you probably won't see another soul at the place
2008-02-14 11:34 < MessedRocker> on my birthday I will be eating at an Italian restaurant
2008-02-14 11:34 < Leslie_S> omg. i changed my earrings, and there was some gunk built up on the back of one. it pulled some skin out with it, which was still attached to my ear. no bleeding. i had to push the skin back in before putting an earring in..
2008-02-14 11:34 < Leslie_S> wtf
2008-02-14 11:34 < MessedRocker> when you are italian, Italian food is very standard
2008-02-14 11:34 < Demi> italian restauranst always advertise "Italian Dinners" and mexican places always advertise "Mexican Food"
2008-02-14 11:35 < MessedRocker> odd
2008-02-14 11:35 < Leslie_S> Demi mexicans eat three meals, italians eat one
2008-02-14 11:36 < bumm13> MessedRocker: tell your parents that their restaurant-choosing methods suck
2008-02-14 11:36 < Leslie_S> but uh, do i need to be concerned?
2008-02-14 11:36 < Demi> Leslie_S - it might be leprosy. have you touched any armadillos lately?
2008-02-14 11:36 < MessedRocker> bumm, my grandparents'
2008-02-14 11:36 < Leslie_S> Demi no. and in my piercings?
2008-02-14 11:37 < bumm13> ahhh
2008-02-14 11:37 < bumm13> I see
2008-02-14 11:37 < bumm13> Demi: the video I just mentioned has an armadillo in it :)
2008-02-14 11:40 < Demi> any video is improved by having an armadillo, as long as it's not leprotic
2008-02-14 11:40 < NotACow> ARMADILLO SEX
2008-02-14 11:40 < NotACow> Demi: have you seen the video of the armadillos having sex on david letterman's desk?
2008-02-14 11:40 * bumm13 gives NotACow some meds
2008-02-14 11:40 < Demi> i have not
2008-02-14 11:40 < NotACow> it's on worldwide pants
2008-02-14 11:40 < NotACow> that is one amazing penis
2008-02-14 11:40 < Leslie_S> and it didnt hurt at all either
2008-02-14 11:40 < Leslie_S> so wtf
2008-02-14 11:41 < NotACow> armadillos have prehensile cocks.
2008-02-14 11:41 < Demi> i think the last time i watched letterman was in the NBC era and he had monkeycam
2008-02-14 11:42 < Leslie_S> ....
2008-02-14 11:43 < Aviator> the transwiki procedure is quite complicated
2008-02-14 11:43 < Aviator> is there any bot where i can feed pages into it so it will do the job?
2008-02-14 11:53 < NotACow> narf.
2008-02-14 11:55 < ml4macdo> have you just recently got earrings?
2008-02-14 11:57 < bumm13> heh: "I don't know how many video tape bootleggers all of you have around your neighborhoods, but over here, it's the most popular profession aside from 'stealing' and 'welfare'."
2008-02-14 11:58 < NotACow> DEATH TO EARRINGS
2008-02-14 12:00 < av16ar> !admin
2008-02-14 12:03 < ml4macdo> do you think wikipedia is going to make any more progress in the alexa top 10 ratings?
2008-02-14 12:03 < ml4macdo> it's been at 9 for a while..
2008-02-14 12:03 < ml4macdo> and those social networking sites are pretty popular
2008-02-14 12:04 < NotACow> wikipedia is a social networking site
2008-02-14 12:05 < The359> we're the big wikipedo social networking site
2008-02-14 12:05 < av16ar> WP:NOT#SOCIALNET
2008-02-14 12:06 < NotACow> av16ar: that's such a lie
2008-02-14 12:06 < av16ar> WP is a MMORPG^^
2008-02-14 12:06 < Demi> wikipedia actually has to be at least partly a social networking site
2008-02-14 12:06 < Demi> in order to function
2008-02-14 12:06 < NotACow> wikipedia is very much a social networking service
2008-02-14 12:06 < bumm13> it's a secondary function
2008-02-14 12:07 < NotACow> and, like all social networking sites, it was cool at first, but it's gone downhill now that it's gotten popular
2008-02-14 12:07 < NotACow> and all the lamers showed up
2008-02-14 12:07 < Demi> yes, and now that dirty brazilians are everywhere
2008-02-14 12:07 < ml4macdo> has it gone downhill?
2008-02-14 12:07 < bumm13> haha
2008-02-14 12:07 < bumm13> orkut
2008-02-14 12:07 < NotACow> Demi: no, that's orkut
2008-02-14 12:07 < NotACow> heh
2008-02-14 12:07 < Demi> well, i get confused
2008-02-14 12:08 < bumm13> WP "social networking" is like an apartment complex's parking lot
2008-02-14 12:08 < bumm13> there are parking spaces, but it's not an airport parking garage
2008-02-14 12:08 < ml4macdo> so is it getting more popular, or less popular?
2008-02-14 12:08 < ml4macdo> what does the future hold?
2008-02-14 12:08 < Demi> i think there was a white paper recently that convincingly held that alexa ratings are not meaningful
2008-02-14 12:09 < bumm13> moral: if you jabber off-topic on WP too much, we'll tow your vehicle (at owner's expense)
2008-02-14 12:09 < bumm13> Alexa is IE-centric, for starters
2008-02-14 12:09 < ml4macdo> then how do you measure it?
2008-02-14 12:10 < NotACow> ml4macdo: psychics.
2008-02-14 12:11 < ml4macdo> maybe wikimedia should make a social networking site
2008-02-14 12:11 < ut2004player> LOL
2008-02-14 12:11 < ml4macdo> what?
2008-02-14 12:11 < ut2004player> i would so use it
2008-02-14 12:11 < ml4macdo> so would i
2008-02-14 12:11 < NotACow> ml4macdo: they already did.
2008-02-14 12:11 < NotACow> ml4macdo: it's called wikipedia
2008-02-14 12:11 < Aviator> so the title "multiplayer notepad" goes to wikipedia now?
2008-02-14 12:11 < Aviator> i've heard
2008-02-14 12:12 < ml4macdo> na, wikipedia is an encyclopedia
2008-02-14 12:12 < ut2004player> wikipedia pwnz :p
2008-02-14 12:13 < av16ar> I need an admin please
2008-02-14 12:14 < ut2004player> where are the admins?
2008-02-14 12:15 < ut2004player> busy editing wikipedia?
2008-02-14 12:16 < Aviator> busy trolling :p
2008-02-14 12:18 < The359> hiding
2008-02-14 12:21 < ml4macdo> i'm a mathematician
2008-02-14 12:22 < ut2004player> really?
2008-02-14 12:22 < ut2004player> how do you do 5 by 5 matrices?
2008-02-14 12:22 < ut2004player> i am stuck :p
2008-02-14 12:22 < Demi> have you heard about the constipated mathemetician?
2008-02-14 12:23 < ut2004player> no
2008-02-14 12:23 < Demi> he worked it out with a pencil
2008-02-14 12:23 < ml4macdo> what do you want to do with them?
2008-02-14 12:23 < ml4macdo> 5 by 5 matrices that is..
2008-02-14 12:24 < ml4macdo> that's like asking "how do you do chairs"?
2008-02-14 12:24 < The359> you do your homework
2008-02-14 12:24 < Mike_H> Demi: you never responded to me the other day :<
2008-02-14 12:24 < The359> then you can do them
2008-02-14 12:24 < Demi> Mike_H - sorry about that; i tend to drift in and out
2008-02-14 12:25 < Mike_H> Demi: I'm watching Solid Gold. The dancers are gyrating to the Top 50 of 1979.
2008-02-14 12:25 < The359> you've actually found something worse than America's Next Top Model
2008-02-14 12:25 < NotACow> Mike_H: boogie on down!
2008-02-14 12:25 < Demi> ah, 1979; gold suits, flared legs and afros?
2008-02-14 12:25 < Mike_H> it's not the entire Top 50, though, it cut off the #1 song
2008-02-14 12:26 < Demi> or am i thinking of Soul Train?
2008-02-14 12:26 < Mike_H> (which I found out later was Da Ya Think I'm Sexy? by Rod Stewart)
2008-02-14 12:26 < Demi> oh yes, a classic of oxymoronic songwriting
2008-02-14 12:26 < Mike_H> Demi: No, that was Solid Gold too
2008-02-14 12:26 < ml4macdo> ut2004player: are you actually stuck, or are you just kidding around?
2008-02-14 12:26 < Mike_H> just on white people
2008-02-14 12:27 < Demi> or at least i and everyone i know always thought so
2008-02-14 12:27 < Demi> i guess rod stewart never had a problem getting tail
2008-02-14 12:27 < Mike_H> Demi: Wasn't that around the time he married Rachel Hunter?
2008-02-14 12:27 < Demi> what was her name, the fine model?
2008-02-14 12:27 < Demi> yeah, that's the one
2008-02-14 12:27 < ut2004player> um i am kidding around
2008-02-14 12:27 < ut2004player> but
2008-02-14 12:27 < ut2004player> are you could with physics?
2008-02-14 12:27 < ut2004player> good*
2008-02-14 12:27 < ml4macdo> i'm okay
2008-02-14 12:28 < Mike_H> but there are gaps around the Top 15. It starts with #13 and "I Will Survive," and then cuts to #11 and Herb Alpert's "Rise"
2008-02-14 12:28 < ut2004player> i am stuck
2008-02-14 12:28 < NotACow> Mike_H: probably licensing issues
2008-02-14 12:28 < Mike_H> yeah, perhaps, or they cut out the live performance for length
2008-02-14 12:28 < Demi> Herb Alpert is one of those big names you're unlikely to have heard of if you didn't live in close proximity to the '70s
2008-02-14 12:28 < ml4macdo> ut2004player: with what?
2008-02-14 12:29 < Demi> ut2004player - the real experts on physics are physicians, you should probably see one of them
2008-02-14 12:29 < ut2004player> demi
2008-02-14 12:29 < Mike_H> NotACow: Yeah, it's doing it again. It only showed four songs in the Top 10.
2008-02-14 12:29 < Mike_H> #10, #6, #5, and #2, respectively.
2008-02-14 12:29 < ut2004player> when you get to higher level physics it becomes math =/
2008-02-14 12:30 < NotACow> Demi: uh, physicians usually know rather little about physics.
2008-02-14 12:30 < Demi> that reminds me, i have to get some of the new gear for my level 60 physicist
2008-02-14 12:30 < Demi> NotACow - but they have physics *right in their name*
2008-02-14 12:30 < NotACow> Demi: go figure!
2008-02-14 12:30 < Mike_H> #10: Bee Gees, "Tragedy." #6, Eagles, "Heartache Tonight." #5, Little River Band, "Lonesome Loser." #2, Doobie Brothers, "What a Fool Believes."
2008-02-14 12:31 < NotACow> Mike_H: i feel like i'm back in 5th grade now
2008-02-14 12:31 < Mike_H> haha
2008-02-14 12:31 < ut2004player> i am stuck on wavelengths and astromy how are they related with measuring speed of the universe relative to planets....
2008-02-14 12:31 < NotACow> the universe doesn't move.
2008-02-14 12:31 < Demi> NotACow - i was disappointed that my primary care physician couldn't answer the most basic questions about spacetime curvature
2008-02-14 12:31 < ut2004player> it has something to do with RED SHIFT?
2008-02-14 12:31 < ut2004player> it does
2008-02-14 12:32 < NotACow> isn't red shift a drink?
2008-02-14 12:32 < Demi> ut2004player - i'm pretty confident we have articles on all that stuff
2008-02-14 12:32 < Mike_H> NotACow: I don't know why they cut out a lot of the Top 10. Most of the songs from 50-40 were intact, except for #50 and #41.
2008-02-14 12:32 < ut2004player> the universe is constantly expanding
2008-02-14 12:32 < NotACow> ut2004player: expanding != moving
2008-02-14 12:32 < The359> constantly?
2008-02-14 12:32 < ut2004player> =//
2008-02-14 12:32 < The359> not if it shrinkg again it isn't
2008-02-14 12:32 < Demi> "Speed of the Universe" is a good name for a band
2008-02-14 12:32 < ut2004player> lol
2008-02-14 12:32 < The359> shrinks
2008-02-14 12:32 < ut2004player> i guess your right
2008-02-14 12:32 < Mike_H> #49, Donna Summer, "Dim All the Lights." #48, Blues Brothers, "Soul Man." #47, Robert Palmer,
2008-02-14 12:32 < NotACow> what about greenshift?
2008-02-14 12:32 < Mike_H> "Bad Case of Loving You."
2008-02-14 12:32 < Mike_H> I love these songs!
2008-02-14 12:32 < Mike_H> <3
2008-02-14 12:33 < NotACow> Mike_H: oh, man, Soul Man
2008-02-14 12:33 < The359> needs moar brownshift
2008-02-14 12:33 < Demi> ut2004player - red shift measures how fast a star is moving away from us; everything we can see is moving away from us, the farther away the faster it moves away
2008-02-14 12:33 < ml4macdo> is like the doppler effect, but for light instead of sound
2008-02-14 12:33 < NotACow> Demi: actually we very rarely see blueshift.
2008-02-14 12:33 < ut2004player> ah
2008-02-14 12:33 < NotACow> ml4macdo: actually, it *is* the doppler effect.
2008-02-14 12:33 < Mike_H> #46, Michael Jackson, "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough." #45, Raydio, "You Can't Change That." #44, Frank Mills, "Music Box Dancer." #43, Bee Gees, "Love You Inside Out." #42, ELO, "Don't Bring Me Down." #40, Anita Ward, "Ring My Bell."
2008-02-14 12:34 < Mike_H> NotACow: 1979 was a weird cross-section
2008-02-14 12:34 < Mike_H> between disco and the '80s
2008-02-14 12:34 < NotACow> Mike_H: i was there, you know :)
2008-02-14 12:34 < Mike_H> I wasn't :<
2008-02-14 12:34 < ut2004player> but how does the blue wave lengths changing to red show the speed?
2008-02-14 12:34 < ml4macdo> NotACow: well.. semantics, realy
2008-02-14 12:34 < ut2004player> i am really bad with wavelenghs stuff...
2008-02-14 12:34 < NotACow> ut2004player: doppler effect :)
2008-02-14 12:35 < Mike_H> NotACow: I think my favorite song out of all of them was the hit listed as #39 in 1979.
2008-02-14 12:35 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW6pbea_J3s
2008-02-14 12:35 < NotACow> i live Don't Bring Me Down
2008-02-14 12:35 < NotACow> er love
2008-02-14 12:35 < Demi> ut2004player - think of wavefronts as pulses. the wavelength is the distance between two of them. if something is moving away from you, the wave fronts will be spread out a little and so the distance will be greater
2008-02-14 12:35 < NotACow> BRUCE
2008-02-14 12:35 < Mike_H> NotACow: That's a link to the #39 song, Elton John "Mama Can't Buy You Love."
2008-02-14 12:35 < ut2004player> doppler effect is when a car is moving and you are stationary...as the car moves the the sound changes wavelenght right?
2008-02-14 12:35 < NotACow> Mike_H: i think i have that in MP3 somewhere
2008-02-14 12:35 < NotACow> ut2004player: or vice versa.
2008-02-14 12:36 < Mike_H> NotACow: apparently his disco forays were ill-fated, and I don't know why, I like this one
2008-02-14 12:36 < NotACow> ut2004player: that's how radar/lidar work
2008-02-14 12:36 < ut2004player> jea
2008-02-14 12:36 < ut2004player> yea*
2008-02-14 12:36 < NotACow> i used to have a bunch of radar gun catalogs
2008-02-14 12:36 < ml4macdo> ut2004player: that's right.. think of a car moving far away from you. you know the pitch it's supposed to be, and you know the pitch you hear - from that you can work out how fast it's moving away from you
2008-02-14 12:36 < NotACow> my father did a project for a radar gun manufacturer back in the 80s
2008-02-14 12:36 < ut2004player> but how does the color spectrum effect it?
2008-02-14 12:36 < ut2004player> what does it show?
2008-02-14 12:36 < NotACow> ut2004player: color == frequency
2008-02-14 12:37 < NotACow> blue light is a higher frequency than red light
2008-02-14 12:37 < ut2004player> ohhh
2008-02-14 12:37 < Mike_H> <NewsWire> AP: Jane Fonda Uses Vulgar Slang on 'Today' - http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TV_FONDA_APOLOGY?SITE=MAHYC&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
2008-02-14 12:37 < Mike_H> <Mike_H> You know Jane Pauley would have given Hanoi Jane a pimp-slap if she ever used vulgarity on HER show.
2008-02-14 12:37 < ut2004player> so why in the universe it changes from blue (higher) to red (lower)?
2008-02-14 12:37 < ml4macdo> well, supposedly, because everything is moving away from us
2008-02-14 12:38 < ml4macdo> that's how they deduce the universe is expanding
2008-02-14 12:38 < OverlordQ> ut2004player: because if it's moving away the distance is longer
2008-02-14 12:39 < ut2004player> =0
2008-02-14 12:39 * Mike_H pets bah
2008-02-14 12:39 < ut2004player> moving away distance is longer...yes thats true
2008-02-14 12:40 < ut2004player> universe is expanding because everything is moving away from us?
2008-02-14 12:40 < ut2004player> not sure about that...
2008-02-14 12:41 < ml4macdo> well.. since the 'universe' and 'everything' are the same thing..
2008-02-14 12:41 < ut2004player> oh
2008-02-14 12:41 < ut2004player> wait wait
2008-02-14 12:41 < ut2004player> i am a slow learner -_-
2008-02-14 12:41 < ml4macdo> np
2008-02-14 12:42 < ut2004player> one sec let me think about this for a moment
2008-02-14 12:42 < bumm13> this really isn't the place to learn about the physics of astronomy
2008-02-14 12:42 < ut2004player> its wikipedia dude
2008-02-14 12:42 < ut2004player> you can learn everythinghere :)
2008-02-14 12:43 < Mike_H> NotACow: I don't think you were here last night when I announced my big interview
2008-02-14 12:43 < ml4macdo> and i'm no expert.. as i say, i'm a mathematician, not a physicist
2008-02-14 12:43 < ml4macdo> or a physician, for the matter
2008-02-14 12:43 < ut2004player> i still dont get how color (frequency) shows that the distance of stars is increasing?
2008-02-14 12:44 < Mike_H> NotACow: CBS has given us permission to put in requests for 16 different Young and the Restless stars, for a Wikinews retrospective interview/article on the show's 35th anniversary next month.
2008-02-14 12:44 < bumm13> haha: http://www.x-entertainment.com/pics/candy1.jpg
2008-02-14 12:44 < Mike_H> Not only is it a good score, it's the LARGEST interview we've coordinated.
2008-02-14 12:44 < ml4macdo> if you understand the doppler effect for sound, then you'll understand it for light
2008-02-14 12:45 < ut2004player> blue ===> red (red shift) confuses me...
2008-02-14 12:45 < ut2004player> maybe i dont really understand doppler =(
2008-02-14 12:45 < ut2004player> now i feel stupid
2008-02-14 12:47 < ml4macdo> i guess you should think of (sound or light) waves as squiggly lines. if something is moving away, the squiggles get stretched out.. lowering the frequency
2008-02-14 12:48 < ut2004player> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redshift.png
2008-02-14 12:48 < ut2004player> ohhh
2008-02-14 12:49 < ut2004player> so when lines stretch there is graeter dsstance?
2008-02-14 12:49 < ut2004player> distance*
2008-02-14 12:49 < ut2004player> wow! i think i get it =)
2008-02-14 12:49 < ml4macdo> well, the distance doesn't matter - it's the speed
2008-02-14 12:50 < ut2004player> so speed gets more?
2008-02-14 12:50 < ml4macdo> ..
2008-02-14 12:50 < ml4macdo> yes?
2008-02-14 12:52 < ut2004player> now i have forgotten what my original question was ;__;
2008-02-14 12:53 < ml4macdo> http://www.astro.ubc.ca/~scharein/a311/Sim/doppler/Doppler.html
2008-02-14 12:53 < ml4macdo> click and move the green dot in that link - it's fun!
2008-02-14 12:54 < ut2004player> so if you see one star and see another how do you know which one is moving at greater speed? (how do you measure frequency/color)?
2008-02-14 12:55 < ut2004player> lol, it is fun!
2008-02-14 12:55 < OverlordQ> pull out a tape measure
2008-02-14 12:57 < ml4macdo> you look at their spectrums.. the spectral lines will appear in different places, and from those positions you should be able to work out their speed
2008-02-14 12:57 < ut2004player> pull out tape measurer...rofl
2008-02-14 12:57 < ut2004player> spectrumal lines?
2008-02-14 12:57 < ut2004player> 0_0 never heard of that
2008-02-14 12:58 < ml4macdo> specifically, one star is moving away faster if the spectral lines are shifted up (towards red) by more
2008-02-14 12:58 < Demi> Mike_H - so do you have to contact their agencies and whatnot to arrange for the interviews?
2008-02-14 12:58 < ml4macdo> in that image you linked to, there are black lines.. those are spectral lines
2008-02-14 12:58 < Demi> ut2004player when certain elements get excited, they emit light energy at specific wavelengths
2008-02-14 12:58 < ut2004player> i c
2008-02-14 12:58 < Demi> since our helium is the same as their helium, we know what it's "supposed" to be, and we can tell when it's shifted, and by how much
2008-02-14 12:58 < ut2004player> in the image the lines are black in my browser
2008-02-14 12:59 < ut2004player> red srty
2008-02-14 12:59 < ut2004player> red not black
2008-02-14 12:59 < ml4macdo> i'm talking about this image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redshift.png
2008-02-14 12:59 < ml4macdo> there are black lines
2008-02-14 12:59 < ut2004player> oh
2008-02-14 12:59 < ut2004player> those
2008-02-14 13:00 < ml4macdo> the colours don't shift, but the black lines do (hence the arrows
2008-02-14 13:00 < ml4macdo> unfortunately, that picture seems to produce an optical illusion, and makes you think the colours are shifting as well
2008-02-14 13:01 < NotASpy> there's a decent book out there, "In Search of Schrodinger's Cat" by John Gribbin, a good entry for those who don't have much experience of quantum mechanics.
2008-02-14 13:01 < ut2004player> oh
2008-02-14 13:02 < ut2004player> wow you are smart m14macdo! -_-
2008-02-14 13:02 < ut2004player> so in summary
2008-02-14 13:03 < ut2004player> black lines shift
2008-02-14 13:03 < ut2004player> to red
2008-02-14 13:03 < Demi> presumably, from his nick, ml4macdo is an ML programmer for McDonald's
2008-02-14 13:03 < ut2004player> red has less frequency
2008-02-14 13:03 < ut2004player> so bent lines have greater distance/speed
2008-02-14 13:03 < ml4macdo> haha, not quite.. what's an ML programmer?
2008-02-14 13:03 < OverlordQ> I know where the cat is
2008-02-14 13:03 < Demi> ML is a programming language
2008-02-14 13:04 < OverlordQ> the cats' dead, a grue at it
2008-02-14 13:04 < OverlordQ> *ate
2008-02-14 13:04 < ml4macdo> ut2004player: yes, the more the shift that more the speed
2008-02-14 13:04 < ml4macdo> *the
2008-02-14 13:04 < ut2004player> ok
2008-02-14 13:05 < ml4macdo> So to work out the *distance*, is another step..
2008-02-14 13:05 < quanticle> Demi: I wonder what McDonalds could use a functional language for...
2008-02-14 13:05 < Demi> actually ut2004player you might like A Short History Of Nearly Everything, by Bill Bryson
2008-02-14 13:05 < Demi> it's actually quite good and written for a popular audience
2008-02-14 13:05 < ml4macdo> you use hubble's law, which says the speed of far away stars are proportional to distance
2008-02-14 13:05 < Demi> it particularly focuses on things like "how do we know how far away stars are" and things like that
2008-02-14 13:06 < Demi> quanticle - same thing they use everything else for: making people fat
2008-02-14 13:06 < quanticle> Demi: ML makes you fat?
2008-02-14 13:06 * quanticle boggles
2008-02-14 13:06 < quanticle> I knew those functional languages were too good to be true!
2008-02-14 13:06 < quanticle> :P
2008-02-14 13:07 < ut2004player> but back to the spectral lines, how can you see them? what device do you use?
2008-02-14 13:07 < Demi> yes, but not as fat as haskell
2008-02-14 13:07 < Demi> which, of course, makes you fat because it's lazy
2008-02-14 13:07 < quanticle> Demi: Lisp is lazy too.
2008-02-14 13:07 < ml4macdo> oh.. well, a telescope of some kind
2008-02-14 13:07 < ml4macdo> not with your eyes, that's for sure
2008-02-14 13:08 < ut2004player> ah
2008-02-14 13:08 < ut2004player> only under manification then?
2008-02-14 13:08 < Demi> quanticle - the S-expressions represent rolls of fat
2008-02-14 13:08 < ml4macdo> actually, i suppose you should be able to use a prism to do it
2008-02-14 13:09 < ml4macdo> because they separate out the spectrum
2008-02-14 13:09 < ut2004player> yes
2008-02-14 13:09 < ml4macdo> like pink floyd
2008-02-14 13:10 < quanticle> Demi: Heh.
2008-02-14 13:10 * quanticle is sleepy
2008-02-14 13:10 < quanticle> And its only noon...
2008-02-14 13:10 < ml4macdo> so, prism + telescope somehow.. but i'm making this up now - i actually don't know how they do it
2008-02-14 13:10 < Demi> they use a spectrophotometer
2008-02-14 13:10 < Demi> which is a magic device that has in imp in it who is sensitive to atomic emission spectra
2008-02-14 13:10 < ut2004player> so wait , you look at two stars in a telescope, look at spectral lines, then how do you actually compare lines to find speed?
2008-02-14 13:10 < quanticle> Demi: Basically a prism coupled to a camera...
2008-02-14 13:11 < bumm13> quanticle: I remember seeing some sort of ancient computer mounted in the back of a McDonald's restaurant when I worked there as a teenager
2008-02-14 13:11 < NotASpy> same sort of thing as we use to do IR and UV spec in Chemistry.
2008-02-14 13:11 < bumm13> with two 5¼-inch disk drives
2008-02-14 13:11 * Fabexplosive back
2008-02-14 13:11 < bumm13> hiya Fabexplosive
2008-02-14 13:12 < Demi> ut2004player - things which are further away are moving away faster
2008-02-14 13:12 < Fabexplosive> heya bumm13
2008-02-14 13:12 < Demi> according to Hubble's Law as ml4macdo said
2008-02-14 13:12 < eth01> who'd be interested for free, the domain 'freenode-regulars.org'?
2008-02-14 13:12 < eth01> i used it for a project here a few weeks back, but it's died of death now.
2008-02-14 13:13 < ut2004player> yes
2008-02-14 13:13 < ut2004player> but how how do you know they are farther away?
2008-02-14 13:13 < ut2004player> dont really understand this part...
2008-02-14 13:14 < eth01> send us a pm if you want it
2008-02-14 13:14 < Demi> because they're moving away faster
2008-02-14 13:14 < ml4macdo> where in the spectrum the lines are, like the image http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Redshift.png illustrates
2008-02-14 13:14 < Demi> there are some "standard candles"--kinds of stars where we know how bright they are, and so we actually can directly measure how far away they are by how bright or dim they appear to us
2008-02-14 13:14 < ut2004player> o wait
2008-02-14 13:15 < ml4macdo> the higher the black lines are, the faster away they are moving, and so the farther away they are (by hubble's law)
2008-02-14 13:15 < ut2004player> the black lines
2008-02-14 13:15 < Demi> and that verified the information that the faster objects are moving away, the farther away they are
2008-02-14 13:15 < ut2004player> do the black lines represent stars?
2008-02-14 13:15 < ut2004player> star light*
2008-02-14 13:15 < ut2004player> *star spectral lines*
2008-02-14 13:15 < ml4macdo> no, the black lines represent chemical elements
2008-02-14 13:16 < ml4macdo> the top black line is maybe hydrogen, the second helium, etc
2008-02-14 13:16 < Demi> look, the sun is a mass of incandescent gas: a gigantic nuclear furnace. it turns hydrogen into helium, at a temperature of millions of degrees.
2008-02-14 13:16 < ml4macdo> so different stars this 'signature' of spectral lines will be in a different place
2008-02-14 13:17 < ut2004player> so wait the black lines are elements but measurements of what light, heat, mass, sound?
2008-02-14 13:17 < ml4macdo> they are the absence of light of that frequency - they have been absorbed by that elements, so don't appear in the spectrum
2008-02-14 13:18 < Demi> ut2004player - because of its electron structure, when atoms of an element are excited, they emit light energy at single, characteristic wavelengths
2008-02-14 13:18 < ml4macdo> and hence, they represent the presence of that element
2008-02-14 13:18 < Demi> and absorb it as wall
2008-02-14 13:18 < Demi> er "well"
2008-02-14 13:19 * ut2004player sits down and pulls out a paper to start taking notes
2008-02-14 13:19 < ml4macdo> that spectrum is what you would see if you separate the light from a star with a prism
2008-02-14 13:20 < Demi> can we talk about presidents next? i want to naturally work in more They Might Be Giants lyrics
2008-02-14 13:20 < ml4macdo> like this: Image:Dispersion prism.jpg
2008-02-14 13:20 < ml4macdo> oops: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dispersion_prism.jpg
2008-02-14 13:21 < ut2004player> so different stars have different elements on them thereby making them emit different colors which give different spectralines of frequency.
2008-02-14 13:22 < ut2004player> but why is seperating the light important using prism?
2008-02-14 13:22 < NameAlreadyInUse> ocarina of time was a sweet game
2008-02-14 13:22 < ml4macdo> close; in fact all stars have hydrogen and helium, so they use those as markers, or standards
2008-02-14 13:23 < ml4macdo> so if stars didn't move, all of the hydrogen and helium lines would be in exactly the same place.
2008-02-14 13:23 < ml4macdo> hubble (or possibly somebody before him) noticed they aren't in the same place - they are shifted up a bit
2008-02-14 13:24 < ml4macdo> hence "red shifted"
2008-02-14 13:24 < bumm13> we're still talking about this? :P
2008-02-14 13:24 * ut2004player bumm be patient ;p
2008-02-14 13:25 < Demi> of course, ml4macdo is just giving you the orthodoxy of the "scientific humanistic secular" perspective. real scientists believe that the earth is the center of the universe, that the motions of heavenly objects occur because they are fixed to celestial spheres, and these absorption spectra result from the light being refracted through these layers of spheres.
2008-02-14 13:25 < ut2004player> ohh
2008-02-14 13:26 < ut2004player> i think i really get it now :p
2008-02-14 13:26 < Gracenotes> Demi: don't forget about the epicycles