freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-12 21:33 < Messedrocker> LOOOOOTIOOOON
2008-02-12 21:34 < Gracenotes> Messedrocker: bzzzzzzzzt
2008-02-12 21:34 < Xihix> Because I'm just not sure with my answer.
2008-02-12 21:34 < Gracenotes> Xihix: well, what is your answer?
2008-02-12 21:34 < privatemusings> just say "a tossed ball has more forces, gravity and whatever you put into it, but a dropped ball has only the force of gravity '
2008-02-12 21:34 < Xihix> ... I don't even know.
2008-02-12 21:34 < privatemusings> that's my version.
2008-02-12 21:35 < Gracenotes> privatemusings: I have my own version, as well. But is the language used in mine consistent with Xihix's discourse? apparently not.
2008-02-12 21:35 < privatemusings> i still think we've got a way to go to establish the finer points of tossing.......
2008-02-12 21:35 < Gracenotes> hehe
2008-02-12 21:35 < Xihix> It just says tossing
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> please
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> I've wasted 20 minutes on this for no reason
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> I still need to study
2008-02-12 21:36 < privatemusings> see above
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> just answer it for god's sakes please
2008-02-12 21:36 < Gracenotes> Xihix: do you have a textbook?
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> I want to see grace's
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> No, I left it at school.
2008-02-12 21:36 < Gracenotes> :|
2008-02-12 21:36 < Gracenotes> that might be a problem
2008-02-12 21:36 < Xihix> Please, I've wasted to much god damn time on this. Please just answer it.
2008-02-12 21:36 * privatemusings is much smarter than gracenotes, you know.
2008-02-12 21:36 * privatemusings is a tenured professor.
2008-02-12 21:37 < Xihix> Your answer is just too different from what two others have said
2008-02-12 21:37 < Gracenotes> privatemusings: are you a gay Catholic as well?
2008-02-12 21:37 < Xihix> and what I originally thought
2008-02-12 21:37 < privatemusings> sshhhh....
2008-02-12 21:37 < privatemusings> i don't want anyone to know. ;-)
2008-02-12 21:37 < Gracenotes> that you're gay, or that you're Catholic? Or that you're neither? :)
2008-02-12 21:37 < Xihix> ANSWER GRACE PLEASE!
2008-02-12 21:37 < The359> Are you Slim or whatever his name was?
2008-02-12 21:37 < TroubleClef> What did you originally think?
2008-02-12 21:37 * Krimpet earned her prestigious doctorate from the wikiversity.
2008-02-12 21:38 * privatemusings got his mail order.
2008-02-12 21:38 < Gracenotes> Xihix: hm
2008-02-12 21:38 < privatemusings> or was that male order?
2008-02-12 21:38 * The359 earned his degree from STF University
2008-02-12 21:38 < Xihix> the balls would both fall at a constant rate of acceleration, so no difference...
2008-02-12 21:38 < Xihix> but apparently I'm very wrong.
2008-02-12 21:38 < Gracenotes> there's no different in the force applied to each during flight
2008-02-12 21:38 < Gracenotes> and acceleration applied to each, for that matter
2008-02-12 21:39 < Gracenotes> velocity changes, yes -- but velocity only changes due to acceleration
2008-02-12 21:39 < Xihix> Grace, I'm nearly into tears because of how much time I have wasted on this
2008-02-12 21:39 < Xihix> I JUST CAME HERE FOR A SIMPLE ANSWER
2008-02-12 21:39 < Xihix> JUST GIVE IT
2008-02-12 21:39 < Gracenotes> I thought you came here to understand it. meh.
2008-02-12 21:39 < TroubleClef> Then perhaps you should consider the direction in which it's being tossed!
2008-02-12 21:39 < The359> The answer is do your fucking homework
2008-02-12 21:39 < Xihix> NO!
2008-02-12 21:40 < Gracenotes> TroubleClef: I'm assuming up
2008-02-12 21:40 < Xihix> no to grace, btw.
2008-02-12 21:40 < Xihix> I've done nearly all of it except for this
2008-02-12 21:40 < Loooooooong_Cat> =^o.o^=-x========================================================================================================================================================x---
2008-02-12 21:41 < Gracenotes> a tossed ball will reach the ground later than a dropped one will
2008-02-12 21:41 < Xihix> thats all it took
2008-02-12 21:41 < Xihix> God damn!
2008-02-12 21:41 < Krimpet> Xihix: this is #wikipedia, not a homework help forum. -_-
2008-02-12 21:41 < privatemusings> but you might be wrong.....
2008-02-12 21:41 * Loooooooong_Cat huggles Mark_Ryan
2008-02-12 21:41 < Xihix> krimpet, they said they would help
2008-02-12 21:41 < Krimpet> if nobody can answer your question, please don't complain.
2008-02-12 21:41 < Gracenotes> Xihix: help you understand it, yeah
2008-02-12 21:42 < Gracenotes> not help you do it
2008-02-12 21:42 < Gracenotes> Xihix: modern science education is big on requiring you to explain phenomena within the context of certain concepts
2008-02-12 21:42 < Xihix> well, it isn't for me sorry.
2008-02-12 21:43 < Gracenotes> for example, instead of asking the difference between a tossed/dropped ball in general, they'd ask you to explain it using the idea of acceleration
2008-02-12 21:43 < Xihix> well, it isn't saying to.
2008-02-12 21:44 < Gracenotes> Xihix: a problem with the question, imho. eh, what can you do
2008-02-12 21:44 < Loooooooong_Cat> :)
2008-02-12 21:44 < Gracenotes> good luck on the quiz. Assuming luck is a factor here, anyway...
2008-02-12 21:44 < Xihix> I know everything else
2008-02-12 21:45 * Krimpet is choking on a "lights-out" puzzle-solving algorithm herself. :x
2008-02-12 21:45 < Xihix> I thought I knew that question too
2008-02-12 21:45 < privatemusings> what else can we confuse you over?
2008-02-12 21:45 < Xihix> but I wasn't sure. oh well.
2008-02-12 21:45 < Gracenotes> Xihix: using your textbook is probably a better idea than using us
2008-02-12 21:45 < Xihix> Nothing, I wasted too much time here on that question that I was right on originally
2008-02-12 21:45 < Loooooooong_Cat> Quiz question #1: Is Long cat long?
2008-02-12 21:45 < Messedrocker> Long cat is long
2008-02-12 21:45 < Loooooooong_Cat> True False
2008-02-12 21:45 < Loooooooong_Cat> Circle one
2008-02-12 21:45 < privatemusings> well don't stres about it - just do your best, you'll be 'right...
2008-02-12 21:45 < Messedrocker> Ceiling cat is ceiling.
2008-02-12 21:45 < Messedrocker> ( True ) False
2008-02-12 21:45 * Gracenotes circles "File not found"
2008-02-12 21:46 < Loooooooong_Cat> Question #2: Which of the following biases does Wikipedia NOT have
2008-02-12 21:46 < Loooooooong_Cat> (A) Gay/Lesbian
2008-02-12 21:46 < Loooooooong_Cat> (B) Ron Paul
2008-02-12 21:46 < Loooooooong_Cat> (C) Furry
2008-02-12 21:46 < Loooooooong_Cat> (D) All of the above
2008-02-12 21:47 < Loooooooong_Cat> (E) None of the above
2008-02-12 21:47 < Messedrocker> E
2008-02-12 21:47 < Loooooooong_Cat> E is correct
2008-02-12 21:47 < Gracenotes> I think Wikipedia has a strong None-of-the-above bias
2008-02-12 21:47 < privatemusings> did you know that hot water can freeze quicker than cold water?
2008-02-12 21:47 < Messedrocker> that makes sense
2008-02-12 21:47 < Gracenotes> Loooooooong_Cat: in fact, I'm going to complain about none-of-the-abovism on [[Talk:Main Page]] right now
2008-02-12 21:47 < Messedrocker> but i can't put together why
2008-02-12 21:48 < Gracenotes> privatemusings: sublimation, you mean?
2008-02-12 21:48 < privatemusings> amongst other things....
2008-02-12 21:48 < Gracenotes> alchemy? :P
2008-02-12 21:48 < Pellegrini_Cat> <<
2008-02-12 21:48 < privatemusings> it's called the Mpemba effect...
2008-02-12 21:48 * privatemusings checks to see if we've got an article on it....
2008-02-12 21:48 < Loooooooong_Cat> My new favorite effect: the [[Magnus effect]]
2008-02-12 21:49 < Messedrocker> you mean the Magnus Animum effect
2008-02-12 21:49 < Loooooooong_Cat> (It came up in quiz bowl)
2008-02-12 21:49 < Loooooooong_Cat> snipers have to learn about it
2008-02-12 21:49 < Gracenotes> privatemusings: looks pretty descriptive, the article
2008-02-12 21:49 < Loooooooong_Cat> because it can greatly affect the accuracy of long-distance shooting
2008-02-12 21:49 < Gracenotes> I'm not sure I can allot sufficient resources to comprehend it at the moment, but... eh :)
2008-02-12 21:49 < privatemusings> it's great!
2008-02-12 21:50 < privatemusings> dammit.... another one done better that i ever could already.....
2008-02-12 21:50 < privatemusings> ;-)
2008-02-12 21:50 < quanticle|away> Loooooooong_Cat: Its D
2008-02-12 21:50 < Gracenotes> named after a high school student... nice :)
2008-02-12 21:51 < privatemusings> i'm not sure if it makes a difference if you toss the water or not though....
2008-02-12 21:51 * Loooooooong_Cat is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
2008-02-12 21:51 * privatemusings wonders if Loooong cat brought home the quiz bowl
2008-02-12 21:52 < Ceiling_Cat> We didn't make it to NAQT sectionals this weekend :(
2008-02-12 21:52 < Ceiling_Cat> but we're hosting ACF this saturday
2008-02-12 21:52 < Messedrocker> is this like a collegiate extra cirricular activity or something?
2008-02-12 21:53 < privatemusings> super quiz comp
2008-02-12 21:53 < Ceiling_Cat> It's played at the collegiate and high school levels
2008-02-12 21:53 < Ceiling_Cat> and it's even making its way into middle schools
2008-02-12 21:53 < Ceiling_Cat> I play on the college and masters levels
2008-02-12 21:54 * privatemusings hopes the mpemba effect comes up next time.....
2008-02-12 21:56 < Xihix> Question!
2008-02-12 21:56 < Xihix> Does anyone know of an example of something that has reached a terminal velocity?
2008-02-12 21:56 < Messedrocker> a BALL up in the AIR
2008-02-12 21:56 < privatemusings> someone free falling before their parachute opens
2008-02-12 21:56 < Cyrius> balls tend to not reach terminal velocity
2008-02-12 21:56 < Messedrocker> or a FREEEEE FAAAALLLLIIIING tom petty
2008-02-12 21:56 < Cyrius> rain
2008-02-12 21:57 < TroubleClef> Has the thing been tossed or dropped?
2008-02-12 21:57 < Xihix> ...
2008-02-12 21:57 < privatemusings> terminal velocity means they die immediately, by the way.
2008-02-12 21:57 < Xihix> I'm thinking something that has been thrown in the air, right before it falls, right?
2008-02-12 21:57 < Messedrocker> after jumping off mt. everest (cause he's awesome), mr. petty achieves a maximum velocity after free falling for some time
2008-02-12 21:57 * TroubleClef coughs
2008-02-12 21:57 < Messedrocker> yes xihix
2008-02-12 21:57 < privatemusings> nope. more like something going as fast as it can.
2008-02-12 21:57 < Xihix> alrighty.
2008-02-12 21:58 < gwern> my dog has no nose!
2008-02-12 21:59 < privatemusings> how does it smell?
2008-02-12 21:59 < quanticle|away> privatemusings: Bad and badly
2008-02-12 21:59 < gwern> not at all, of course. he has no noes
2008-02-12 21:59 < quanticle|away> gwern: But he has a lot of yesses?
2008-02-12 21:59 < gwern> my dog has no emacs or other text editor!
2008-02-12 21:59 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle: away?
2008-02-12 21:59 < quanticle> I'm here now.
2008-02-12 22:00 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: I forgot to reset my nick...
2008-02-12 22:00 < Lucifer_Cat> ahh
2008-02-12 22:01 < geniice> Xihix technicaly http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349#First_manned_test_flight
2008-02-12 22:01 < Xihix> Is this a new law and order?
2008-02-12 22:02 < geniice> no it's battletoads
2008-02-12 22:02 < Xihix> why did he leave? :(
2008-02-12 22:02 < Xihix> Damn it, it's old.
2008-02-12 22:05 < gwern> my dog has no emacs/ how does he code?
2008-02-12 22:05 < gwern> terrible
2008-02-12 22:06 < Krimpet> gwern, emacs is unusable by any species.
2008-02-12 22:06 < quanticle> gwern: Using vi
2008-02-12 22:06 < quanticle> Of course
2008-02-12 22:07 < quanticle> gwern: Or, god forbid, nano
2008-02-12 22:07 < Starnestommy> ed, sed, cat, and tee
2008-02-12 22:07 < Starnestommy> and exho
2008-02-12 22:07 < Starnestommy> *echo
2008-02-12 22:07 < quanticle> Starnestommy: or with a steady paw and a magnetized needle
2008-02-12 22:07 < Krimpet> ed is the standard text editor, of course.
2008-02-12 22:07 < gwern> well, he'd be even worse in vi
2008-02-12 22:07 < quanticle> Krimpet: The only editor gwern's dog needs is a magnetized needle. :)
2008-02-12 22:08 < gwern> two modes, beep repeatedly and break everything - a dog would be able to do both with his clumsy paws
2008-02-12 22:08 < quanticle> gwern: Are we talking about vi or emacs?
2008-02-12 22:08 < gwern> the former, if course
2008-02-12 22:09 < quanticle> gwern: As opposed to emacs, where he'd hit some random C- M- key combo that'd end the world?
2008-02-12 22:09 < quanticle> gwern: I prefer the beeping, thanks.
2008-02-12 22:09 < Krimpet> emacs had only one use - psychoanalyze-pinhead. and naturally mr. stallman had to rip that out.
2008-02-12 22:09 < gwern> quanticle: hey, M-x launch-missiles is a useful function!
2008-02-12 22:10 < quanticle> gwern: http://www.xkcd.com/378/
2008-02-12 22:10 * Lucifer_Cat doesnt get the M-x tihng
2008-02-12 22:10 < gwern> Krimpet: eh. how hard could it be to combine doctor and zippy? it's not really needed
2008-02-12 22:10 < gwern> quanticle: seen it
2008-02-12 22:10 < quanticle> gwern: Can't forget good ol' C-x M-c M-butterfly
2008-02-12 22:10 * gwern reads xkcd too
2008-02-12 22:11 < Krimpet> gwern: no, they ripped out yow cause it wasn't free(tm) enough. :P
2008-02-12 22:11 < quanticle> Krimpet: Emacs had tetris too.
2008-02-12 22:11 < quanticle> Krimpet: I think it still does, in fact.
2008-02-12 22:11 < gwern> Krimpet: eh? how was it not free enough?
2008-02-12 22:11 < gwern> rms ruled over gnu emacs with an iron fist from the beginning
2008-02-12 22:11 < gwern> how can anything in it not be free?
2008-02-12 22:11 < quanticle> Emacs: it'd be a great operating system, if only it had a decent text editor...
2008-02-12 22:12 < Lucifer_Cat> whats C-x M-c M-butterfly quanticle
2008-02-12 22:12 < Krimpet> quanticle: well, it does have viper-mode, that's a start
2008-02-12 22:12 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Read the linked XKCD
2008-02-12 22:12 < zvook> omg Alkivar, you made me make fun of a woman recently widowed? i'm not quite that mean
2008-02-12 22:12 < gwern> it's a poor joke. M-butterfly isn't even a valid sequence
2008-02-12 22:12 < Lucifer_Cat> no no i mean what do those things mean
2008-02-12 22:12 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: C = control
2008-02-12 22:12 < Lucifer_Cat> i read xkcd the moment it comes out
2008-02-12 22:12 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: M = meta (usually alt)
2008-02-12 22:13 < Lucifer_Cat> ok
2008-02-12 22:13 < gwern> I mean, you'd have to have a key with the keysym of 'butterfly' to startwith, and I'm pretty sure either C-x or M-c is user-reserved
2008-02-12 22:13 < quanticle> gwern: Well C-x is definitely reserved.
2008-02-12 22:13 < Lucifer_Cat> but i have only ever used vi/vim and nano (once)... so what does C-x and M-c do?
2008-02-12 22:14 < gwern> quanticle: not necessarily; remember the rectangle commands start with C-x r
2008-02-12 22:14 < gwern> (or was that registers?)
2008-02-12 22:14 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: No idea. I use vim
2008-02-12 22:15 < Lucifer_Cat> okay
2008-02-12 22:16 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle: you are by far the geekiest indian i have seen. or maybe i have been hanging out with all the wrong ppl.
2008-02-12 22:16 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: You've been hanging with the wrong people.
2008-02-12 22:16 < Lucifer_Cat> only 2 of my 'friends' appreciate xkcd humor :(
2008-02-12 22:16 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Hang around the Comp. Sci. area of your local university sometime. You'll see Indians far geekier than I.
2008-02-12 22:16 < Lucifer_Cat> well not like i had much of a choice though
2008-02-12 22:17 < gwern> I feel lucky to have a sister who loves xkcd; she once spent a couple hours hanging with xkcd. said he's a real nice fellow althoughhe was kinda tired at the time
2008-02-12 22:17 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle: i WAS in CS. both undergrad and masters. no luck.
2008-02-12 22:17 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: What universities? What kind of Comp. Sci. student DOESN'T appreciate XKCD?
2008-02-12 22:17 < quanticle> Or xkcd, rather.
2008-02-12 22:18 < Lucifer_Cat> geekier as in a good cool way. yeah a cpl i know can write a real hell of a driver for linux.. .but they just wont do anything like ssh into their home machines
2008-02-12 22:18 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Well that's unfortunate. I guess they just consider Comp. Sci. their jobs, not their hobbies.
2008-02-12 22:18 < Lucifer_Cat> 1. Gujarat University (no surprise there)... 2. Clemson University... the american ones were great... indians there had no aim
2008-02-12 22:19 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle: FAR too many of them consider it to be their job. and none of them are very good at it
2008-02-12 22:19 < quanticle> I kinda feel sorry for people who major in Comp. Sci., but don't like the subject. This is one of those fields where you kinda need a passion to be any good.
2008-02-12 22:19 < quanticle> It must suck to join a profession knowing you don't like it.
2008-02-12 22:20 < Lucifer_Cat> yup. and they smirk and make faces when i telll them that i switched from architecture to comp sci cuz 'i liked it'
2008-02-12 22:21 < Messedrocker> i am not very knowledgable in compsci yet i appreciate xkcd
2008-02-12 22:21 < Lucifer_Cat> ofcourse, i respond with a condescending remark
2008-02-12 22:21 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Heh. Well, its people like you that keep the software industry from sinking under the weith of its own crappiness...
2008-02-12 22:21 < Lucifer_Cat> Messedrocker: thats called being cool
2008-02-12 22:21 < quanticle> *weight.
2008-02-12 22:21 < Lucifer_Cat> quanticle: arent u in the industry too?
2008-02-12 22:21 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Well, anybody with a decent mathematical or engineering background will appreciate xkcd.
2008-02-12 22:21 < Lucifer_Cat> im not in yet btw :P
2008-02-12 22:21 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Not yet.
2008-02-12 22:21 < Lucifer_Cat> lol me neither
2008-02-12 22:21 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: I'm still doing my undergrad studies.
2008-02-12 22:22 < Lucifer_Cat> ohhh
2008-02-12 22:22 < quanticle> Lucifer_Cat: Well you are ahead me, though.
2008-02-12 22:22 < Messedrocker> I dont have a decent mathematical or engineering background, though
2008-02-12 22:22 < Messedrocker> my experience is high school biology and geometry
2008-02-12 22:22 < Lucifer_Cat> Messedrocker: i would have gotten xkcd in highschool. it just needs that kind of aptitude
2008-02-12 22:22 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Given the mathematical ignorance of the majority of the populace, I'd say that's decent.
2008-02-12 22:22 < Messedrocker> i was bad at the latter
2008-02-12 22:23 * privatemusings just likes the fact that 0.9 recurring equals 1
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> i remember my teacher proving that in the 3rd grade
2008-02-12 22:23 * Krimpet is banging her head against the wall tring to write an algorithm to solve the "lights out" puzzle -_-
2008-02-12 22:23 * Lucifer_Cat sucks balls at math. i once scored 24/100 in engg math and still got placed third in class overall thanks to other subjects
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> she explained it perfectly. i got it then and there
2008-02-12 22:23 * privatemusings remembers proving it to his 3rd grade teacher.
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> 1/3 = 0.333...
2008-02-12 22:23 < Lucifer_Cat> krimpet: whats the puzzle?
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> 2/3 = 0.666...
2008-02-12 22:23 < Lucifer_Cat> also 322
2008-02-12 22:23 * privatemusings is lying of course, he's actually pretty stupid.
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> therefore 3/3 = 0.999...
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> but a number divided by itself is 1
2008-02-12 22:23 < Messedrocker> that's how she explained it
2008-02-12 22:24 < Krimpet> Lucifer_Cat: [[Lights Out (game)]]
2008-02-12 22:24 < privatemusings> but isn't it just really really nearly 1
2008-02-12 22:24 < quanticle> privatemusings: 0.9999... does not equal 1. It approaches 1 asymptotically.
2008-02-12 22:24 < privatemusings> sorry quant - you're wrong.
2008-02-12 22:24 < privatemusings> it really is 1
2008-02-12 22:24 < privatemusings> honest!
2008-02-12 22:24 < quanticle> privatemusings: Its not. Sorry.
2008-02-12 22:24 < Lucifer_Cat> Krimpet: yeah that thing is a headache
2008-02-12 22:24 < quanticle> privatemusings: I tried that against a mathematician, and I got shot down hard.
2008-02-12 22:25 < Lucifer_Cat> i could solve it overnight though.
2008-02-12 22:25 < privatemusings> well you were right
2008-02-12 22:25 < privatemusings> honest!
2008-02-12 22:25 < privatemusings> it doesn't just approach 1
2008-02-12 22:25 < quanticle> privatemusings: Don't tell that to a math major.
2008-02-12 22:25 < privatemusings> no you should!
2008-02-12 22:25 < Krimpet> I already have a puzzle-solving framework in place, but when I tried plugging this into my framework, it just spins in an infinite loop
2008-02-12 22:25 < quanticle> privatemusings: Its because you can't have an infinite number of 9's after the decimal point.
2008-02-12 22:25 < Lucifer_Cat> "I did not major in math..."
2008-02-12 22:25 < Messedrocker> quanticle, 0.999... = 1
2008-02-12 22:25 < Messedrocker> it doesn't approach 1, it IS 1
2008-02-12 22:25 < Lucifer_Cat> Krimpet: mind if i PM?
2008-02-12 22:25 < Krimpet> Lucifer_Cat, sure
2008-02-12 22:26 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Nope. You can't have an infinite number of nines.
2008-02-12 22:26 < Lucifer_Cat> you mean you sure would mind?
2008-02-12 22:26 < Xihix> Hey guys, the two main factors friction involves are surface resistance and type of friction
2008-02-12 22:26 < Xihix> right?
2008-02-12 22:26 < Messedrocker> yes you can
2008-02-12 22:26 < Messedrocker> you can't write it obviously
2008-02-12 22:26 < Messedrocker> but you can have it
2008-02-12 22:26 < Krimpet> no, I don't mind; sure, you can. :)
2008-02-12 22:26 < quanticle> Messedrocker: No you can't. Infinity is unreachable.
2008-02-12 22:26 < privatemusings> what's unreachable?
2008-02-12 22:26 < Messedrocker> quanticle, tell that to anyone who has taken calculus
2008-02-12 22:26 < quanticle> Messedrocker: The definition of inifinity is that its unreacable.
2008-02-12 22:27 < Messedrocker> You never reach infinity itself
2008-02-12 22:27 < Messedrocker> But something can be expressed infinitely
2008-02-12 22:27 < quanticle> Messedrocker: I've taken 3 years of calculus and nowhere was it mentioned that infinity was reachable.
2008-02-12 22:27 < Messedrocker> Which means it never ends
2008-02-12 22:27 < quanticle> Messedrocker: Grows without bound != infinity.
2008-02-12 22:27 < TroubleClef> 10 print cantoo 20 goto 10?
2008-02-12 22:27 < privatemusings> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999
2008-02-12 22:27 < privatemusings> that's actually not too awful.....
2008-02-12 22:28 < privatemusings> if you can accept pi exists, then you're doing ok.....
2008-02-12 22:28 < TroubleClef> PI IS A MYTH
2008-02-12 22:28 < privatemusings> mmmmmmm pi.......
2008-02-12 22:28 < Messedrocker> π π π π π
2008-02-12 22:28 < Messedrocker> mmmm π
2008-02-12 22:29 < gwern> the pi is a lie
2008-02-12 22:29 * privatemusings curses messed for having better keyboard skills....
2008-02-12 22:29 < Messedrocker> correction, based on my math background
2008-02-12 22:29 < Messedrocker> the amount of 9s in 0.999... approaches infinity
2008-02-12 22:29 < Messedrocker> that's the phrase i was looking for. "approaching infinity"
2008-02-12 22:29 * Messedrocker remembers THAT from end behavior
2008-02-12 22:30 < quanticle> Well, I guess it depends on your definition of equality. You can say that, as you keep adding nines, 0.999... will equal 1 to within some infinitesimally small epsilon.
2008-02-12 22:31 < privatemusings> check this bit out; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999#Skepticism_in_education
2008-02-12 22:32 < privatemusings> it's quite a good explanation of why your objection to the premise is actually based on a kinda misreading of what a number actually is....
2008-02-12 22:32 < privatemusings> wierd, huh?
2008-02-12 22:32 < quanticle> privatemusings: Oh. I get it. Its sort of a definitional problem isn't it.
2008-02-12 22:32 < quanticle> privatemusings: We were talking about two different things. I was referring to the sequence, you were referring to the limit.
2008-02-12 22:32 < privatemusings> well more conceptual - you're on the right track though....
2008-02-12 22:33 < privatemusings> but in short, 0.9 recurring really does equal 1
2008-02-12 22:33 < privatemusings> no matter which way you look at it!!
2008-02-12 22:33 < privatemusings> (you can have a blast causing math majors pain with this one!)
2008-02-12 22:33 < quanticle> Right, in the sense that lim 0.9999... = 1 as # of 9's -> inf.
2008-02-12 22:33 < privatemusings> conditional probability is the other one that makes math folk's head explode...
2008-02-12 22:33 < quanticle> privatemusings: Bayes thm.?
2008-02-12 22:34 < gwern> hah. Bayes Theorem is probably the best math thing even educated folk constantly mess up
2008-02-12 22:34 < quanticle> gwern: Bayes Theorem is lots of fun.
2008-02-12 22:34 < privatemusings> i'm trying to remember the famous female mathmetician who set a related problem in new york
2008-02-12 22:35 < quanticle> gwern: Especially when it leads you into apparently paradoxical situations.
2008-02-12 22:35 < privatemusings> and copped tons of heat for it....
2008-02-12 22:35 < quanticle> privatemusings: Similar to Bayes Theorem?
2008-02-12 22:35 < privatemusings> a famous example of simple conditional probability
2008-02-12 22:35 < privatemusings> so yeah - related.....
2008-02-12 22:35 < Messedrocker> the point is that 0.999... is really an impossible number
2008-02-12 22:36 < gwern> quanticle: yes, those can be fun. but I find the paradox generally originates in yourself and not the theorem
2008-02-12 22:36 < Messedrocker> it's representable as "the amount of 9s approaches infinity" but doesn't actually exist
2008-02-12 22:36 < Messedrocker> the reason why it does =1 is because there's no end to the 9's
2008-02-12 22:36 < quanticle> gwern: That's why I said "apparently paradoxical."
2008-02-12 22:36 < privatemusings> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_vos_Savant#The_Monty_Hall_problem
2008-02-12 22:36 < privatemusings> that's it....
2008-02-12 22:36 < privatemusings> a corker.....
2008-02-12 22:37 < quanticle> privatemusings: I came across that problem twice, in statistics and discrete mathematics. Both times, the problem left me scratching my head until it was explained two or three times.
2008-02-12 22:38 < privatemusings> it's a great one...
2008-02-12 22:38 < privatemusings> people will swear blind it makes no difference whether you switch or not
2008-02-12 22:38 < privatemusings> and they're wrong!
2008-02-12 22:40 < quanticle> privatemusings: The issue I have with that problem is that there's no quick way to show people how they're wrong.
2008-02-12 22:40 < Xihix> I have a question!
2008-02-12 22:41 < privatemusings> it's easiest if you just grab three playing cards - two aces and a 2
2008-02-12 22:41 < quanticle> privatemusings: It usually just ends up being a shouting match.
2008-02-12 22:41 < Xihix> which type of force demonstrates no motion exisiting?
2008-02-12 22:41 < quanticle> Xihix: Two forces canceling each other out.
2008-02-12 22:41 < Xihix> so, balanced force?
2008-02-12 22:41 < Lucifer_Cat> yeah
2008-02-12 22:41 < privatemusings> don't shout back - just sit back, safe in the knowledge that you're right!
2008-02-12 22:41 < Xihix> alright
2008-02-12 22:41 < privatemusings> hey - that's not a bad wiki mantra too, i guess......
2008-02-12 22:41 < Lucifer_Cat> privatemusings: thats my fave tihng to do after presenting a puzzle
2008-02-12 22:41 < quanticle> Xihix: However, if the object is already in motion, it'll continue to move (as per Newton's first law).
2008-02-12 22:42 < quanticle> privatemusings: Heh. I guess you're right.
2008-02-12 22:42 < privatemusings> actually - it's a really good test to see if you've fully understood something
2008-02-12 22:42 < privatemusings> to try and explain it to someone
2008-02-12 22:42 < privatemusings> (or mess with them!)
2008-02-12 22:43 < Ashfire908> i'm cropping off the edges (the black stuff and the left side off the page), should i removed the pencil note? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Finck_araner_000.jpg
2008-02-12 22:45 < quanticle> Ashfire908: I don't see why it matters.
2008-02-12 22:46 < Ashfire908> the pencil?
2008-02-12 22:46 < quanticle> Ashfire908: Yeah.
2008-02-12 22:46 < quanticle> Ashfire908: I think you should leave it. It adds character to the image.
2008-02-12 22:48 < Ashfire> sorry, should i get rid of it?
2008-02-12 22:49 < privatemusings> i'd remove the pencil note
2008-02-12 22:49 < privatemusings> i don't like it really.
2008-02-12 22:49 < privatemusings> unless it''s 'notable' in any way get rid of it....
2008-02-12 22:51 < Ashfire> ugh
2008-02-12 22:52 < Ashfire> sorry again, should i get rid of it?
2008-02-12 22:52 < Xihix> Requesting help regarding a question relating to momentum!
2008-02-12 22:55 < TroubleClef> Xihix: #homework
2008-02-12 23:04 < NotACow> mooftp
2008-02-12 23:04 < FastLizard4|Food> moohttps
2008-02-12 23:06 < quanticle> mooossh
2008-02-12 23:07 < privatemusings> moowritingaletterandpostingit
2008-02-12 23:12 < quanticle> moocarrierpigeon
2008-02-12 23:13 < DannyLilithborne> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zangief&curid=494138&diff=191065637&oldid=191024570
2008-02-12 23:13 < DannyLilithborne> can someone revert this please?
2008-02-12 23:13 < DannyLilithborne> "hands of a master"... oh God *dies*
2008-02-12 23:14 < Krimpet> hands of a master? that's debatable. -_-
2008-02-12 23:14 < DannyLilithborne> yes, zangief requires hella skills in alpha 3
2008-02-12 23:15 < DannyLilithborne> knowing when to beat someone's attack with one button and when not to... hella skills
2008-02-12 23:15 * Krimpet was punning around :p
2008-02-12 23:15 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-02-12 23:16 < quanticle> Heh. Has anyone here read "Playing to Win", by David Sirlin?
2008-02-12 23:16 < DannyLilithborne> but please remove it... i've already done it 3 times :( i'd put him on 3RR but i haven't warned him
2008-02-12 23:16 < DannyLilithborne> yeah... that guy is great
2008-02-12 23:16 < quanticle> Heh. Street Fighter + StarCraft + Sun Tzu = Awesom
2008-02-12 23:16 < quanticle> *Awesome
2008-02-12 23:17 < DannyLilithborne> yup :)
2008-02-12 23:18 < DannyLilithborne> i'm gonna just go ahead and report him before i go to sleep
2008-02-12 23:18 < DannyLilithborne> it looks like he has a history of this kinda thing D:
2008-02-12 23:35 < Dtobias> mooirc
2008-02-12 23:36 < FastLizard4|busy> moohttp
2008-02-12 23:37 < gwern> 'Kiss of Death? Rudy's campaign manager praises Hillary's wait for Ohio and Texas strategy.' <-- lol
2008-02-12 23:38 < FastLizard4|busy> heh
2008-02-12 23:39 < Dtobias> moofidonet
2008-02-12 23:40 < NagilaHava> I have a problem and need to seek assistance
2008-02-12 23:40 < NagilaHava> regarding an administrator who abusively edited an article under contention after it was protected
2008-02-12 23:40 < FastLizard4|busy> NagilaHava: Please provide diff links, and I recommend going either to that administrator or to ABI
2008-02-12 23:40 < NagilaHava> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&action=history
2008-02-12 23:40 < FastLizard4|busy> *ANI, not ABI, sorry
2008-02-12 23:40 < NagilaHava> I posted a link on the notice as well
2008-02-12 23:41 < TroubleClef> Well, I can't help you with that at all, so I'll just play with your hair.
2008-02-12 23:41 < NagilaHava> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Racism_on_http:.2F.2Fen.wikipedia.org.2Fw.2Findex.php.3Ftitle.3D1948_Palestinian_exodus.26action.3Dhistory
2008-02-12 23:41 < NagilaHava> It looks obvious that someone is trying to keep off people who disagree with them from the page
2008-02-12 23:41 < NagilaHava> to push an anti-Jewish agenda
2008-02-12 23:41 < FastLizard4|busy> Nothing abusive about those I can see, and it was only semi protected, why?
2008-02-12 23:42 < FastLizard4|busy> Could you provide specific diffs?
2008-02-12 23:42 < NagilaHava> Riana has never posted anything to the page but she is the reason 1948remembered's talk is forever locked
2008-02-12 23:42 < NagilaHava> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:1948remembered&action=history
2008-02-12 23:42 < FastLizard4|busy> NagilaHava: Please provide links to all your claims or I can not help you
2008-02-12 23:42 < NagilaHava> I am providing the page links unless I am providing the wrong link somehow
2008-02-12 23:43 < FastLizard4|busy> Please provide a diff link to the edit(s) you believe is abusive
2008-02-12 23:43 < NagilaHava> diff link?
2008-02-12 23:43 < FastLizard4|busy> In addition, I would hardly call this an uncalled for protection: Protected User talk:1948remembered: Repeated personal attacks [edit=sysop:move=sysop]
2008-02-12 23:44 < NagilaHava> fastlizard 1948remembered is permanently blocked
2008-02-12 23:44 < FastLizard4|busy> NagilaHava: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Diff_links
2008-02-12 23:44 < NagilaHava> and none of those have bothered to ever address the points
2008-02-12 23:44 < FastLizard4|busy> I would hardly call personal attacks inappropriate reason to be blocked
2008-02-12 23:44 < NagilaHava> forever?
2008-02-12 23:44 < NagilaHava> one moment while I look
2008-02-12 23:44 < NagilaHava> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&diff=191071563&oldid=191071385
2008-02-12 23:45 < NagilaHava> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&diff=191072470&oldid=191072337 is the edit where riana edits while it is supposed to be protected
2008-02-12 23:45 < FastLizard4|busy> And before you start ranting about what you consider to be inappropriate administrator actions, please thoroughly review the relevant Wikipedia policies, especially WP:BLOCK and WP:PROTECT
2008-02-12 23:45 < Riana|AFK> -.-
2008-02-12 23:45 < FastLizard4|busy> Besides the article is SEMI protected, there is a difference between SEMI and FULL protection
2008-02-12 23:45 < FastLizard4|busy> Why thank you
2008-02-12 23:45 < Riana|AFK> I hates t3h jooz, according to him
2008-02-12 23:46 * Riana|AFK goes to edit contentiously too
2008-02-12 23:46 < Krimpet> more liek swastikriana. -_-
2008-02-12 23:46 < FastLizard4|busy> This edit is antisemitic? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1948_Palestinian_exodus&diff=191072470&oldid=191072337
2008-02-12 23:46 < Riana|AFK> lol
2008-02-12 23:47 < Riana|AFK> FastLizard4|busy: I hope not, he seems to think so though. But the 'failure to wipe out Israel' is much better language, of course
2008-02-12 23:48 < FastLizard4|busy> heh
2008-02-13 00:25 * Enterprise_Cat is now going to bed, good night!
2008-02-13 00:58 < loft306> lively place
2008-02-13 01:01 * Loooooooong_Cat returns
2008-02-13 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> It's too quiet in here
2008-02-13 01:04 < Sargun> uhhh
2008-02-13 01:07 < black_cat> tell me if my buddy is crazy, 21yo guy going out with a 27yo girl
2008-02-13 01:07 < black_cat> we're having an argument over it
2008-02-13 01:07 < Sargun> What
2008-02-13 01:07 < Sargun> What is wrong with that
2008-02-13 01:07 < Sargun> and that
2008-02-13 01:08 < Sargun> is offtopic
2008-02-13 01:08 < black_cat> so?
2008-02-13 01:08 < Sargun> Just saying
2008-02-13 01:08 < Loooooooong_Cat> meh, 6 year difference isn't so big when you're in your 20s
2008-02-13 01:08 < loft306> if it works go 4 it but off topic
2008-02-13 01:08 < Loooooooong_Cat> I realized the other day just how much older I am than one of my buddies
2008-02-13 01:08 < black_cat> loft306: again, don't care, it's a social channel
2008-02-13 01:08 < Loooooooong_Cat> (he's 17, I'm 25)
2008-02-13 01:09 < black_cat> 17 will get you 20
2008-02-13 01:09 < loft306> 25=
2008-02-13 01:09 < Loooooooong_Cat> nah, it's:
2008-02-13 01:09 < black_cat> looks like I won :D he's pissed
2008-02-13 01:09 < Loooooooong_Cat> 10 will getcha 5, and 5 will getcha 20 ;)
2008-02-13 01:09 < loft306> and it goen up from there
2008-02-13 01:09 < black_cat> I told him to go for it, he thinks he's crazy
2008-02-13 01:09 < loft306> *s
2008-02-13 01:10 < Sargun> What's wrong with 27yo-girl and 21yo-guy?
2008-02-13 01:10 < Loooooooong_Cat> nothing
2008-02-13 01:10 < Sargun> Women get better with age/.
2008-02-13 01:10 < Loooooooong_Cat> although some people may complain the age difference is too much
2008-02-13 01:10 < black_cat> lol
2008-02-13 01:10 < loft306> the other way round would be better though
2008-02-13 01:10 < Sargun> Well, actually, they get more mature
2008-02-13 01:10 < Sargun> loft306, not really..
2008-02-13 01:11 < loft306> though
2008-02-13 01:11 < Sargun> People consider women these super mature amazing things
2008-02-13 01:11 < Sargun> they can actually be quite a bit less mature than their counterparts
2008-02-13 01:11 < loft306> but they finnaly get a clue round about 27-28
2008-02-13 01:12 < Sargun> loft306, Yes, but not all of them do
2008-02-13 01:12 < loft306> some get it earlier some never get it
2008-02-13 01:13 < Sargun> Most of them don't get it for a while.
2008-02-13 01:15 < black_cat> she has it
2008-02-13 01:15 < black_cat> anyway, I'm off to sleep, I copied the logs to him in aim, he might just go for it
2008-02-13 01:15 < loft306> .
2008-02-13 01:49 * brown_cat_nap walks over to TheWeasel
2008-02-13 02:02 < NeoThermic> Ok, hm. I remeber somewhere there's a law in some US states that details that if you need to defend your home with a gun, you must shoot to kill. Does anyone know which law this is?
2008-02-13 02:03 < TroubleClef> Well that's pretty silly.
2008-02-13 02:03 < TroubleClef> I'd just shoot their leg. And then kick them.
2008-02-13 02:04 < ggreer|iBook> NeoThermic: umm... you shoot to stop
2008-02-13 02:04 < ggreer|iBook> if you shoot someone in the leg that means you weren't in fear of your life
2008-02-13 02:05 < ggreer|iBook> because if you were you would have shot at the torso
2008-02-13 02:05 < NeoThermic> ggreer: I know that ( TroubleClef was the one who mentioned the leg )
2008-02-13 02:05 < TroubleClef> What if I'm in fear of my life but don't want to kill someone?
2008-02-13 02:05 < ggreer|iBook> since that's the quickest way to stop someone
2008-02-13 02:05 < ggreer|iBook> TroubleClef: then you shouldn't even have a gun for self defense
2008-02-13 02:06 < TroubleClef> Well, I don't, so I guess that's good.
2008-02-13 02:06 < TroubleClef> I have kind of a big glass stick.
2008-02-13 02:06 < nokmar> well
2008-02-13 02:06 < nokmar> if you try to shoot at the legs, you might miss
2008-02-13 02:06 < TroubleClef> It looks pretty cool when it's wet.
2008-02-13 02:06 < nokmar> you should go for the chest
2008-02-13 02:07 < nokmar> unless you're like super-pro and can fire at the hip while tumbling around or something
2008-02-13 02:07 < TroubleClef> I can't aim, so I'd probably hit their torso anyway.
2008-02-13 02:09 < ggreer|iBook> every CCW class says aim for critical areas. if you're not ok with killing someone then you should never point a gun at another human being, ever
2008-02-13 02:09 < SinSeer> (unless you're a cartoon character)
2008-02-13 02:10 < ggreer|iBook> also in self defense shootings the number of rounds you fire might weigh on the DA's decision to prosecute or not
2008-02-13 02:10 < ggreer|iBook> if you just use one round to the bad guy's head it's quite different than if you emptied a magazine
2008-02-13 02:10 < ggreer|iBook> (in the first case it's probably manslaughter or murder)
2008-02-13 02:10 < TroubleClef> So it's against the law to not kill them?
2008-02-13 02:11 < TroubleClef> Or at least try to.
2008-02-13 02:11 < ggreer`> TroubleClef: any use of a firearm is considered lethal force. you can only use lethal force as a last resort when you cannot retreat and you fear for your life
2008-02-13 02:12 < ggreer`> if you just want to put someone down, use a taser
2008-02-13 02:12 * SinSeer eyes Wile_E_Coyote
2008-02-13 02:12 < ggreer`> but make sure you have a buddy with a gun next to you, because tasers are one shot
2008-02-13 02:12 < nokmar> there are consumer tasers?
2008-02-13 02:12 < TroubleClef> I don't have a taser.
2008-02-13 02:12 < ggreer`> nokmar: yeah
2008-02-13 02:12 < ggreer`> I guess in united states of freedom we get more cool stuff like that
2008-02-13 02:13 < nokmar> where?
2008-02-13 02:13 < ggreer`> the USA
2008-02-13 02:13 < nokmar> I mean, where can you get a consumer taser?
2008-02-13 02:13 < ggreer`> heck, I'm in california (the most gun-unfriendly state), and I own... 5 firearms
2008-02-13 02:13 < ggreer`> nokmar: probably online or from a sporting goods store
2008-02-13 02:14 < ggreer`> http://www.amazon.com/Advanced-TASER®-Yellow-TASER-Cartridges/dp/B000OTJERC/ref=pd_bbs_sr_6?ie=UTF8&s=hi&qid=1202886854&sr=8-6
2008-02-13 02:15 < ggreer`> there's really no point to owning one though
2008-02-13 02:15 < nokmar> the civilian taser looks more like something out of a science fiction book
2008-02-13 02:15 < nokmar> and come on, 15 feet?
2008-02-13 02:15 < TroubleClef> You could buy a whole bunch of them and make a taser minigun.
2008-02-13 02:15 < ggreer`> nokmar: exactly, 15 feet is really really close
2008-02-13 02:15 < nokmar> TroubleClef: juggling tasers while firing rapidly? =P
2008-02-13 02:15 < ggreer`> and it's single-shot
2008-02-13 02:16 < nokmar> I would rather have a sword at 15 feet
2008-02-13 02:16 < ggreer`> if one of those prongs misses or doesn't penetrate the skin, you've got an angry criminal and no weapon
2008-02-13 02:16 < ggreer`> that is why when cops use tasers, they always have a partner with a gun trained on the suspect
2008-02-13 02:20 < Ceiling_Cat> goodnight
2008-02-13 02:22 < nokmar> [[Rob Furlong]] 2,430 meter hit
2008-02-13 02:22 < nokmar> pro sniper
2008-02-13 02:30 * brown_cat takes ceiling_cat's spot
2008-02-13 02:43 < IceKarma> nokmar, Canadian, ne?
2008-02-13 02:44 < IceKarma> hahaha, Fogo Island
2008-02-13 02:44 < The359> GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz is fully behind development of Chevrolet's aggressive Volt plug-in hybrid, but not for the same reasons as many environmentalists. Mr. Lutz — GM's go-to man for one-liners and candid opinion — had some choice words against the claim of global warming.
2008-02-13 02:45 < The359> "Global warming is a total crock of shit,” Lutz told a group of mostly local journalists during a closed-door meeting at the Cacharel restaurant near Dallas and Fort Worth. "I'm a skeptic, not a denier … I’m motivated more by the desire to replace imported oil than by the CO2."
2008-02-13 02:45 < Aqwis> no surprise
2008-02-13 02:58 < TheWeasel> "it's a crock of shit but I'm not denying it"
2008-02-13 02:58 < TheWeasel> that's splitting the difference for advanced players.
2008-02-13 03:03 < The359> he's the same man who owns his own ex-military fighter jet
2008-02-13 03:05 < TheWeasel> :-)
2008-02-13 03:06 < TheWeasel> "The situation is hopeless but not serious."
2008-02-13 03:06 < Demi> didn't we find that hybrids were not good because of the complexity of manufacture and disposal?
2008-02-13 03:07 < The359> depends on the type of batteries I'd assume
2008-02-13 03:07 < The359> and I think the manufacture cost is coming down quickly
2008-02-13 03:07 < The359> the Volt they speak of is supposed to be a family sedan for around $30-$40k
2008-02-13 03:08 < Demi> i meant in terms of energy budget and carbon
2008-02-13 03:08 * The359 shrug
2008-02-13 03:10 < The359> Volt apparently uses Lithium Ion
2008-02-13 03:10 < ggreer`> I've noticed one important fact: 95% of cars contain one person and very little cargo
2008-02-13 03:10 < The359> yes
2008-02-13 03:10 < ggreer`> most people could use a motorcycle for everyday stuff
2008-02-13 03:10 < ggreer`> and get much much better mileage
2008-02-13 03:10 < The359> City car
2008-02-13 03:11 < ggreer`> of course motorcycles don't have cupholders, or seat belts
2008-02-13 03:11 < ggreer`> or crumple zones
2008-02-13 03:11 < ggreer`> also fat people aren't very good at riding
2008-02-13 03:11 < Demi> or a roof
2008-02-13 03:11 < ggreer`> Demi: minor details
2008-02-13 03:11 < The359> the problem is that most people, like my parents included, will buy something bigger for those few times in which they do need to fit 5 people
2008-02-13 03:11 * ggreer` owns a convertible
2008-02-13 03:11 < ggreer`> The359: yeah, that's when you rent a u-haul
2008-02-13 03:11 < The359> ...
2008-02-13 03:12 < The359> I said people
2008-02-13 03:12 < The359> not cargo
2008-02-13 03:12 < Demi> footage from sturgis indicates that many fat people and their mamas ride motorcycles
2008-02-13 03:12 < ggreer`> oh, right :)
2008-02-13 03:12 < ggreer`> The359: my point is that motorcycles are cheap, efficient, fast, practical, and dangerous as hell
2008-02-13 03:13 < katpatuka> TheWeasel: the admin from uz.wiki did not know the reason for the wiki being blocked. I asked him if he can use IRC...
2008-02-13 03:13 < ggreer`> and maybe people should use them more often, or at least get something like a smart car
2008-02-13 03:13 < TheWeasel> hm
2008-02-13 03:13 < The359> A city car
2008-02-13 03:13 < The359> as I said
2008-02-13 03:14 < TheWeasel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_censorship#Uzbekistan
2008-02-13 03:14 < ggreer`> oh, that's what those are called?
2008-02-13 03:14 < ggreer`> well they're a step in the right direction
2008-02-13 03:14 < TheWeasel> they probably figured they couldn't control WP
2008-02-13 03:15 < The359> city car, commuter car
2008-02-13 03:15 < The359> there's a couple different terms
2008-02-13 03:15 < The359> Japan has their Kei cars
2008-02-13 03:15 < The359> I'm not sure if a Kei is smaller than a Smart
2008-02-13 03:17 < The359> hmm
2008-02-13 03:17 < katpatuka> TheWeasel I had noticed that the uz.wiki does not have many edits therefore I asked the most active admin...
2008-02-13 03:18 < NeoThermic> ggreer: "any use of a firearm is considered lethal force." <- any laws to back that up, out of intrest?
2008-02-13 03:18 < The359> Smart ForTwos are 2.7 meters in length
2008-02-13 03:18 < katpatuka> in Turkey whole WP (.com) is blocked
2008-02-13 03:18 < The359> Kei cars can be no longer than 3.4 meters in length
2008-02-13 03:18 < The359> so I guess a Smart is smaller
2008-02-13 03:18 < TheWeasel> katpatuka: Can't confirm.
2008-02-13 03:18 < The359> although the Smart is a smidge wider
2008-02-13 03:19 < TheWeasel> but the Uzbek government frequently blocks free media.
2008-02-13 03:19 < katpatuka> a pity!
2008-02-13 03:19 * TheWeasel nods
2008-02-13 03:19 < TheWeasel> Hey, I'll be right back.
2008-02-13 03:19 * brown_cat stares at NotAHorse
2008-02-13 03:20 < ggreer`> 3.4 meters? wow, that's even shorter than my car
2008-02-13 03:20 < katpatuka> good that rhere are such tools as treewalk dns for xp ;-)
2008-02-13 03:20 < ggreer`> and a mazda miata is not exactly big