freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-10 06:57 < Mike_H> in the past year or so.
2008-02-10 06:57 < Scottc> but I mean I can understand if you have an underlying physical problem
2008-02-10 06:57 < Mike_H> My sleep apnea is because I'm overweight and I smoke.
2008-02-10 06:57 < Scottc> i'm just saying a lot of people will jump on ye old disorder bandwagon when nothings really wrong with them
2008-02-10 06:57 < Mike_H> I don't treat it.
2008-02-10 06:57 < Mike_H> meaning, I am not losing weight right now and I'm not quitting smoking.
2008-02-10 06:58 < Mike_H> Scottc: Well, I've had a sleep study done
2008-02-10 06:58 < Mike_H> at my worst, I had an apnea of a minute.
2008-02-10 06:58 < Scottc> sleep apnea is where you can't breath while you're asleep and you end up waking up, correct?
2008-02-10 06:58 < Mike_H> Yes and no.
2008-02-10 06:59 < Mike_H> Usually you don't breathe while you're asleep and you can still continue sleeping.
2008-02-10 06:59 < Mike_H> You just breathe again.
2008-02-10 06:59 < Mike_H> my longest apnea was one minute
2008-02-10 06:59 < Mike_H> meaning that I went without breathing for an entire minute.
2008-02-10 07:00 < Scottc> is it where your body stops breathing? or somethings blocking you from breathing?
2008-02-10 07:00 < Mike_H> There's no one cause.
2008-02-10 07:00 < Mike_H> Individuals with decreased muscle tone, increased soft tissue around the airway (e.g., due to obesity), and structural features that give rise to a narrowed airway are at high risk for obstructive sleep apnea. Older people are more likely to have OSA than younger people. Men are more typical sleep apnea sufferers, although the condition is not unusual in women or children.
2008-02-10 07:00 < Mike_H> Common symptoms include loud snoring, restless sleep, and sleepiness during the daytime.
2008-02-10 07:00 < Mike_H> That's the most common one.
2008-02-10 07:01 < Mike_H> Some treatments involve lifestyle changes, such as avoiding alcohol or muscle relaxants, losing weight, and quitting smoking.
2008-02-10 07:01 < Scottc> i feel like going for a walk today
2008-02-10 07:01 < Mike_H> So, I know what to do, and I'm not doing it right now
2008-02-10 07:01 < Mike_H> so it's my fault
2008-02-10 07:01 < Scottc> been a long time since I did that heh
2008-02-10 07:01 < Mike_H> Scottc: But I think I don't have apnea episodes anymore
2008-02-10 07:02 < Mike_H> I made my friend watch me as I slept when we were on vacation after I lost weight last year
2008-02-10 07:02 < Mike_H> I lost 60 pounds then, but none since
2008-02-10 07:02 < Mike_H> and he said that I still snored loudly but I never stopped breathing
2008-02-10 07:02 < Scottc> o
2008-02-10 07:02 < Scottc> so eh how do I know how long it takes for my sleep cycle to change?
2008-02-10 07:02 < Mike_H> people are different
2008-02-10 07:02 < Mike_H> it can take days
2008-02-10 07:03 < Mike_H> or months.
2008-02-10 07:03 < Scottc> thats no good :(
2008-02-10 07:03 < Mike_H> Mine can change relatively quickly. My thing is, I can't keep on it.
2008-02-10 07:03 < Scottc> I mean I feel awake right now, although my eyes have that slight burning sensation you get when tired
2008-02-10 07:03 < Mike_H> I think I may try to sleep
2008-02-10 07:07 < arcimboldo_> Have the vote counters in Washington state gone to sleep?
2008-02-10 07:08 < bumm13> I'm from Wash. but have no interest in the primary vote counts
2008-02-10 07:09 < morwen> can someone explain to me why certain states primaries are not being counted?
2008-02-10 07:10 < Scottc> I blame Ron Paul.
2008-02-10 07:12 < bumm13> morwen: what do you mean?
2008-02-10 07:12 < brown_cat> omg, LMFAo
2008-02-10 07:12 < brown_cat> Mike_H: I am watching this michael moore program
2008-02-10 07:12 < morwen> bumm13: apparently florida is being exluded
2008-02-10 07:13 < brown_cat> he took this guy who was denied an operation
2008-02-10 07:13 < morwen> from the democratic primaries
2008-02-10 07:13 < brown_cat> to humana
2008-02-10 07:13 < brown_cat> to stage his funeral xD
2008-02-10 07:13 < arcimboldo_> morwen: It is because all states except for a few were banned from having their primaries before February 5th.
2008-02-10 07:13 < arcimboldo_> But they did it anyway.
2008-02-10 07:14 < morwen> arcimboldo_: yes, i know that. but how can this situation arise
2008-02-10 07:14 < morwen> either parties are private organisations which have the right to run their own affairs and nominate candidates as they see fit (which is not the case)
2008-02-10 07:14 < arcimboldo_> In Florida, the Republican-dominated state parliament forced it upon the democrats afaik
2008-02-10 07:15 < morwen> or they are acting as arms of government, in which case why is the national party able to ignore this law?
2008-02-10 07:18 < brown_cat> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2008-02-10 07:18 * brown_cat cries
2008-02-10 07:18 < brown_cat> I WANT KILA
2008-02-10 07:18 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-02-10 07:19 * brown_cat bites dircbot
2008-02-10 07:19 < bumm13> *state legislature
2008-02-10 07:19 < bumm13> (not parliament ;)
2008-02-10 07:20 < morwen> states mandate that the parties have to have primaries, right?
2008-02-10 07:20 < Jaqen> OT (English question): half 2 is the same of half past 2, right?
2008-02-10 07:20 < morwen> Jaqen: yes.
2008-02-10 07:21 < Jaqen> morwen: thanks, I am a bit of a paranoid.
2008-02-10 07:21 < arcimboldo_> yes, but it is only common in certain places.
2008-02-10 07:22 < morwen> german uses the analogous formulation to mean half past 1
2008-02-10 07:22 < arcimboldo_> yep
2008-02-10 07:22 < Fabexplosive> heh, strange :D
2008-02-10 07:23 < arcimboldo_> I can make more sense out of the German one -> the hour leaving to 2 o'clock is half full.
2008-02-10 07:24 < Jaqen> morwen: I think that was the reason of my paranoia :-D
2008-02-10 07:24 < arcimboldo_> The "half two" seems just an incomplete "half past two"
2008-02-10 07:24 < morwen> so, if a national party can decide to ignore the state-mandated primary because it is too early, could it ignore it for any other reason it liked? was the mandating of the primary by the state entirely illusionary to begin with?
2008-02-10 07:25 < morwen> and: Could the state of florida retaliate by banning democratic candidates from the general election?
2008-02-10 07:25 < morwen> considering that florida is a large swing state, this deeply troubles me
2008-02-10 07:26 < arcimboldo_> If they allow them going ahead the race for attention will make states hold their primaries earlier and earlier ...
2008-02-10 07:26 < bumm13> in a sense, it allows state legislatures to interfere with the overall U.S. presidential election process
2008-02-10 07:27 < bumm13> I don't see that as a good thing
2008-02-10 07:27 < morwen> bumm13: do you think florida could legally retaliate by banning democratic candidates?
2008-02-10 07:28 < bumm13> I don't know
2008-02-10 08:01 < NotACow> BUCKABEE!
2008-02-10 08:06 < brown_cat> ARGH!!!
2008-02-10 08:08 < Fabexplosive> NotAMoooooooo
2008-02-10 08:08 < Fabexplosive> :P
2008-02-10 08:11 < TheWeasel> bumm13: Leave it to the states is the mantra of the racist coward.
2008-02-10 08:11 < TheWeasel> And of course of Ron Paul.
2008-02-10 08:12 < TheWeasel> Instead of "leave to the states what the states can handle best", seeing that federalism is not an end in itself
2008-02-10 08:13 < TheWeasel> "I'm for freedom, so I will delegate to the states everything that takes it away"
2008-02-10 08:13 < bumm13> fun :P
2008-02-10 08:14 < TheWeasel> it's a cop-out that wouldn't even be possible if the American system wasn't so vague on who can do what
2008-02-10 08:18 < TheWeasel> WHoa
2008-02-10 08:18 < TheWeasel> Fritz 8 wins both sides of the Pirc
2008-02-10 08:18 < TheWeasel> pretty rare
2008-02-10 08:18 < TheWeasel> anyway, on to Caro-Kann
2008-02-10 08:19 < TheWeasel> Whoa
2008-02-10 08:19 < NotAHorse> What about the French?
2008-02-10 08:20 < TheWeasel> It's now called the Freedom Counterattack instead of the French Defence
2008-02-10 08:20 < TheWeasel> not yet shown up though
2008-02-10 08:21 < NotAHorse> Haha. :D
2008-02-10 08:21 < TheWeasel> and chess programs are rather terrible at finding the patience for it
2008-02-10 08:21 < NotAHorse> Neigh! I'm familiar with newspaper and web-based citations, but not scientific ones.
2008-02-10 08:21 < TheWeasel> so Black often ends up in a pretty bad spot
2008-02-10 08:21 < TheWeasel> brb
2008-02-10 08:26 * NotAPolecat is well bored init
2008-02-10 08:28 < NotAPolecat> weehee pair of knights vs. a rook
2008-02-10 08:31 < NotAPolecat> I Di- Hi- Hig a pony
2008-02-10 08:32 * NotAPolecat waits for the new position, then will rush where angels fear to tread briefly
2008-02-10 08:33 < NotAPolecat> o.o closed Sicilian
2008-02-10 08:39 < NotAPolecat> 29.Nxd4!!
2008-02-10 08:40 < NotAPolecat> there's a lot of last-consonant dropping in some dialects of American English
2008-02-10 08:40 < NotAPolecat> I can barely follow fast-talking young women that get interviewed
2008-02-10 08:40 < NotAPolecat> sometimes
2008-02-10 08:40 < NotAPolecat> they refuse to say "t" at the end of "but"
2008-02-10 08:40 < NotAPolecat> and make everything sound like a question
2008-02-10 08:44 * NotAHorse sacs a pawn.
2008-02-10 08:45 < NotAPolecat> It wasn't such a good idea after all, Fritz 8 sacced a knight for connected passed pawns, but it didn't work
2008-02-10 08:45 < NotAPolecat> 7-3 now
2008-02-10 09:07 < NotAPolecat> *George Jones - The Race Is On
2008-02-10 09:08 < NotAPolecat> I love that song big time.
2008-02-10 09:08 < NotAPolecat> my corner of camp music.
2008-02-10 09:16 < Dtobias> Suzi Quatro did a song "The Race Is On" in an album released in 1978... was it the same song?
2008-02-10 09:26 < NotAPolecat> Probably not
2008-02-10 09:28 < NotAPolecat> *Kinks - All Day And All Of The Night (1964)
2008-02-10 09:31 * brown_cat cuddles NotAPolecat
2008-02-10 09:31 < NotAPolecat> :-)
2008-02-10 09:54 < domas> hahaha
2008-02-10 09:54 < domas> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_by_normal_users,_which_can_be_granted_by_super_users,_with_oversight_by_super_duper_users,_which_can_be_repealed_by_admins,_which_must_be_brought_in_front_of_the_Committee_on_committees_that_oversee_the_reviews_of_the_Arbitration_Review_Committee
2008-02-10 09:54 < domas> :)
2008-02-10 09:55 < NotAPolecat> wow
2008-02-10 09:55 < NotAPolecat> White's king on a5 on a full board, and still thinks he'll win
2008-02-10 09:56 < geniice> no WP:RBNUWCBGBSUWOBSDUWCBRBAWMBIFOTCOCTOTROTARC?
2008-02-10 09:56 < geniice> NotAPolecat> not imposible
2008-02-10 09:56 < NotAPolecat> Please parse.
2008-02-10 09:56 < NotAPolecat> 'course not, still spectacular
2008-02-10 09:57 < NotAPolecat> oh, parsed above
2008-02-10 09:57 < domas> here
2008-02-10 09:57 < domas> a list of longest titles: http://p.defau.lt/?Pod7_s_E7tEofxA_XJL8Mg ;-)
2008-02-10 09:57 < geniice> there is a set limit
2008-02-10 09:57 < NotAPolecat> Now on a6
2008-02-10 09:58 < geniice> I see ca.wikipedia is haveing fun with their logo again
2008-02-10 09:58 < NotAPolecat> what is ca?
2008-02-10 10:00 < geniice> Catalan
2008-02-10 10:02 < nigqers> do ppl prefer reading books or browsing wikipedia
2008-02-10 10:02 < Pilotguy> Probably the latter. Now, about that nickname...
2008-02-10 10:03 < nigqers> hrmm
2008-02-10 10:03 < nigqers> specific things wiki is good for
2008-02-10 10:03 < Pilotguy> Yeah, how about we pick something not so offensive
2008-02-10 10:04 < nigqers> ?
2008-02-10 10:04 < Pilotguy> Well wiki sucks in my opinion. So has somebody else
2008-02-10 10:04 < Pilotguy> Somebody who doesn't think it sucks
2008-02-10 10:04 < Pilotguy> Like Warpath
2008-02-10 10:04 < Pilotguy> Ask somebody else I meant to say
2008-02-10 10:05 < geniice> You know do you think our new guest would drown in actetone?
2008-02-10 10:05 < mitchy_henderson> there
2008-02-10 10:05 < Pilotguy> Yay that's better :)
2008-02-10 10:06 < Pilotguy> Now wiki is good for uh... um... oh gee idk... I guess research
2008-02-10 10:06 < mitchy_henderson> i guess
2008-02-10 10:06 < mitchy_henderson> i try the content browsing thing
2008-02-10 10:06 < mitchy_henderson> as opposed to searching
2008-02-10 10:06 < mitchy_henderson> the top
2008-02-10 10:06 < NotAPolecat> Wikipedia? Good for broadening your horizon
2008-02-10 10:06 < NotAPolecat> preparing trips and such
2008-02-10 10:06 < NotAPolecat> not for serious work
2008-02-10 10:06 < Pilotguy> That's right
2008-02-10 10:06 < mitchy_henderson> is this encyclopedia's in general
2008-02-10 10:07 < mitchy_henderson> like britanica
2008-02-10 10:07 < mitchy_henderson> or
2008-02-10 10:07 < NotAPolecat> That is where it delivers excellently, and I think that's the standard it should be held against
2008-02-10 10:07 < Pilotguy> kinda sorta
2008-02-10 10:07 < Pilotguy> Except... editable
2008-02-10 10:07 < mitchy_henderson> clicking links is fun
2008-02-10 10:07 < mitchy_henderson> finding stuff to look @ further
2008-02-10 10:07 < NotAPolecat> we're not in the ballpark of a print encyclopedia and comparisons will always limp
2008-02-10 10:07 < NotAPolecat> yea
2008-02-10 10:08 < mitchy_henderson> u prefer print?
2008-02-10 10:08 < NotAPolecat> no
2008-02-10 10:08 < NotAPolecat> I just say they're not comparable
2008-02-10 10:08 < NotAPolecat> because they're two wildly different concepts
2008-02-10 10:08 < mitchy_henderson> :S
2008-02-10 10:08 < NotAPolecat> the famous apples and oranges
2008-02-10 10:08 < mitchy_henderson> how so
2008-02-10 10:08 < mitchy_henderson> :p
2008-02-10 10:09 < NotAPolecat> we're not an encyclopedia, despite what the title says
2008-02-10 10:09 < slashem> the idea that wikipedia is some kind of encyclopedia is just an extremely poor analogy, because people don't know what it is, really
2008-02-10 10:09 < NotAPolecat> we're a repository of assertions that may (probably) or may not (sometimes) be true
2008-02-10 10:09 < Warpath> Pilotguy, Wiki sSucks :)
2008-02-10 10:09 < mitchy_henderson> ah
2008-02-10 10:09 < mitchy_henderson> :
2008-02-10 10:09 < mitchy_henderson> :)
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> are there any true encyclopedias then
2008-02-10 10:10 < slashem> in the beginning at least wikipedia had a clear goal to record all human knowledge, but that is a rather large goal
2008-02-10 10:10 < Pilotguy> encarta maybe
2008-02-10 10:10 < NotAPolecat> I think Wikipedia is good at what it does, but it isn't an academic work obviously
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> mitchy_henderson, Uncyclopedia ;)
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> encyclo dramatica
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> :d
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> >:(
2008-02-10 10:10 < NotAPolecat> Sure, all the books that have "encyclopedia" in the title
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> thats crap
2008-02-10 10:10 < NotAPolecat> Uncyclopedia owns.
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> :p
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> ^_^
2008-02-10 10:10 < NotAPolecat> ED anyday
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> yer
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> \o/
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> ED is so
2008-02-10 10:10 < mitchy_henderson> unrestraining
2008-02-10 10:10 < Warpath> yyesterdayyy ;)
2008-02-10 10:11 < NotAPolecat> And Wikipedia is really just a bad impostor site of Uncyclopedia
2008-02-10 10:11 < NotAPolecat> they didn't even get the quotes right.
2008-02-10 10:11 < mitchy_henderson> hrm
2008-02-10 10:11 < NotAPolecat> Kidding.
2008-02-10 10:11 < mitchy_henderson> i'm trying to become more
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> err
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> wise
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> i'm thinking either western cannon
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> or
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> reading an encyclopedia
2008-02-10 10:12 < NotAPolecat> Wikipedia is good at what it does, but can never be a quotable source.
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> what does it do for u
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> just
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> search something you don't know
2008-02-10 10:12 < NotAPolecat> Wikipedia is *exactly* bad for western canon topics.
2008-02-10 10:12 < NotAPolecat> At least the English
2008-02-10 10:12 < NotAPolecat> it's marginally better in German
2008-02-10 10:12 < mitchy_henderson> hehe
2008-02-10 10:13 < slashem> Wikipedia is good for trivia
2008-02-10 10:13 < Leslie_lap> heys
2008-02-10 10:13 < NotAPolecat> I mean, I think it's because most editors are American, and the history and culture of Europe isn't really taught or cared for much there
2008-02-10 10:13 < Warpath> Ttech, friend of mrmonday? :D
2008-02-10 10:13 < slashem> As something written by volunteers most of the material is written to satisfy the needs of the volunteers
2008-02-10 10:13 < slashem> ergo, a lot of trivia
2008-02-10 10:13 < NotAPolecat> I don't mind the trivia
2008-02-10 10:13 < geniice> ah memorries:
2008-02-10 10:13 < geniice> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/Votes_for_deletion/WikiProject_Wikipedians_for_Decency
2008-02-10 10:14 < slashem> oh, it can be very useful if that's what you are looking for, or even marginally interested in
2008-02-10 10:14 < NotAPolecat> I dislike pop culture sections, but I don't agree with the War On Trivia
2008-02-10 10:14 < slashem> but a serious encyclopedia? get over yourselves
2008-02-10 10:14 < NotAPolecat> We've never been able to be that
2008-02-10 10:14 < NotAPolecat> I think it doesn't matter though
2008-02-10 10:14 < slashem> no, but some people still believe that
2008-02-10 10:14 < mitchy_henderson> wat is ur fav ency slashem
2008-02-10 10:14 < NotAPolecat> we're still very good at what we do
2008-02-10 10:14 < slashem> no, I agree with you weasel
2008-02-10 10:15 < slashem> obviously wikipedia is doing something right to be so popular
2008-02-10 10:15 < Lubaf> Pika pika?
2008-02-10 10:15 < Lubaf> Pikachu!
2008-02-10 10:15 * Lubaf zaps the channel.
2008-02-10 10:15 < NotAPolecat> Heh... popularity is treacherous
2008-02-10 10:15 < slashem> personally, if I was in charge of wikipedia, I would try to identify what market wikipedia actually serves and figure out how to serve that market better
2008-02-10 10:15 < slashem> but that would be incompatible with having ideals
2008-02-10 10:15 < mitchy_henderson> yer
2008-02-10 10:15 < Lubaf> slashem: The criminally insane, I'd say.
2008-02-10 10:15 < slashem> and wikipedia is pretty strongly focused on ideals
2008-02-10 10:15 < slashem> aw, no, the criminally insane is not a large demographic
2008-02-10 10:16 < slashem> we didn't get to be a top ten website that way
2008-02-10 10:16 < geniice> genocide is an ideal
2008-02-10 10:16 < NotAPolecat> slashem: We're a foundation, not a business enterprise
2008-02-10 10:16 < Lubaf> slashem: You been to one of the vandalism related channels lately?
2008-02-10 10:16 < NotAPolecat> We don't do market research
2008-02-10 10:16 < slashem> well, someone wikipedia hasn't fallen to the vandals yet
2008-02-10 10:16 < slashem> although that may be just a matter of time
2008-02-10 10:16 < slashem> *somehow
2008-02-10 10:17 < Lubaf> We need known good versions.
2008-02-10 10:17 < Lubaf> That's all there is to it.
2008-02-10 10:17 < slashem> I think people overestimate how helpfull known good versions will be
2008-02-10 10:17 < slashem> really I don't think people appreciate that making wikipedia harder to edit affects good-faith newbies to exactly the same degree as vandals
2008-02-10 10:18 < slashem> because we literally cannot tell the difference until they make their first edit
2008-02-10 10:18 < slashem> known good versions is just surrendering the idea that "anyone can edit", it is the beginning of walls around the sandbox that wikipedia used to be
2008-02-10 10:18 < NotAPolecat> I agree.
2008-02-10 10:19 < slashem> now, this may still be the right decision, in that we probably have enough awareness around the world that someone new to wikipedia is more likely a vandal than a good-faith newbie
2008-02-10 10:19 < NotAPolecat> Articles are always works in progress
2008-02-10 10:19 < NotAPolecat> and periodic ups and downs in quality are parts of it
2008-02-10 10:19 < slashem> but it's important to see what the price we are paying is
2008-02-10 10:19 < NotAPolecat> yea, I think we've made joining far too hard lately
2008-02-10 10:20 < NotAPolecat> joining as in letting people sniff and test
2008-02-10 10:20 < NotAPolecat> the way I came here
2008-02-10 10:20 < slashem> of course we are not a business enterprise, we are not here to make money, but then why are we here?
2008-02-10 10:21 < slashem> I am not young enough to believe that the world welcomes us just because we are so good-hearted
2008-02-10 10:21 < NotAPolecat> to collect usable information
2008-02-10 10:21 < NotAPolecat> depends on who the world is
2008-02-10 10:21 < slashem> that is a good point, which is why I think it would be useful to collect information on who actually uses wikipedia and what they use it for
2008-02-10 10:22 < NotAPolecat> not really
2008-02-10 10:22 < slashem> I think there is a real risk of wikipedia degrading to the point where no one finds it very useful anymore at which point it wil simply die
2008-02-10 10:22 < NotAPolecat> we don't "adjust to consumer needs"
2008-02-10 10:22 < NotAPolecat> because we have members, not consumers
2008-02-10 10:22 < NotAPolecat> or readers
2008-02-10 10:22 < NotAPolecat> whatever
2008-02-10 10:23 < slashem> but in evolutionary terms, anything that isn't a closed feedback loop cannot last for long
2008-02-10 10:23 < NotAPolecat> but they don't use it for any economic undertaking, or else at their own peril
2008-02-10 10:23 < slashem> if wikipedia solely satisfies the needs of its members, and not its readers, then shortly there will be no readers
2008-02-10 10:23 < NotAPolecat> heh, maybe it's inherent in writing about things one cares about
2008-02-10 10:23 < zocky> you know, wikipedia is a few months from collapsing
2008-02-10 10:23 < zocky> trust me, I've been saying that for years
2008-02-10 10:23 < NotAPolecat> that there's always at least a second one
2008-02-10 10:24 < slashem> so the question becomes how to align the needs of the members with those of the readers
2008-02-10 10:24 < zocky> "readers" are irrelevant
2008-02-10 10:24 < slashem> if that doesn't happen, I don't see how you can expect wikipedia to last long term
2008-02-10 10:24 < NotAPolecat> The edits have been largely determined by the article topics, so...
2008-02-10 10:24 < zocky> the encyclopedia is being made because making an encyclopedia is a worthy goal in itself
2008-02-10 10:24 < zocky> even if noone ever reads it
2008-02-10 10:25 < NotAPolecat> let's not do too much market research here
2008-02-10 10:25 < NotAPolecat> slashem: It has done so for over six years.
2008-02-10 10:25 < zocky> NotAPolecat, once we start doing market research, we're really dead
2008-02-10 10:25 < slashem> six years is nothing
2008-02-10 10:25 < NotAPolecat> then REALLY
2008-02-10 10:25 < NotAPolecat> :-D
2008-02-10 10:26 < slashem> weasel, do you think it is a worthwhile goal to work on a project no one ever pays attention to?
2008-02-10 10:26 < NotAPolecat> For a foundation with such a tight budget and no further goals, it's phenomenal.
2008-02-10 10:26 < slashem> if wikipedia had never become a top ten website, would you find it as interesting?
2008-02-10 10:26 < NotAPolecat> Well, editor-side economics
2008-02-10 10:26 < slashem> would we have two million articles if wikipedia had never become a top ten website?
2008-02-10 10:26 < zocky> slashem, I found it interesting when it wasn't a top 100,000 site
2008-02-10 10:26 < NotAPolecat> Many editors will suck in many readers
2008-02-10 10:26 < slashem> i rather think it is the opposite
2008-02-10 10:27 < NotAPolecat> I loved the utter radicalness of the concept.
2008-02-10 10:27 < slashem> people read first and decide to edit later
2008-02-10 10:27 < NotAPolecat> That's cool though.
2008-02-10 10:27 < slashem> I thought it was a stupid concept when I first heard it
2008-02-10 10:27 < NotAPolecat> Andß
2008-02-10 10:27 < NotAPolecat> ?
2008-02-10 10:27 < NotAPolecat> :-D
2008-02-10 10:27 < zocky> plenty of people decided to edit before there was anything to read
2008-02-10 10:27 < slashem> only when I actually saw a high quality entry did I decide to try editing it
2008-02-10 10:27 < zocky> motivations are not that simple
2008-02-10 10:27 < Leslie_lap> �Inebriates and moderate drinkers are the most incapable of all persons to drive power motor wagons,� said the authors of a 1904 article in the Quarterly Journal of Inebriety.
2008-02-10 10:27 < Leslie_lap> lol
2008-02-10 10:28 * NotAPolecat has never truly DUI
2008-02-10 10:28 < NotAPolecat> Oh wait, I did, in 1903.
2008-02-10 10:28 < NotAPolecat> :-P
2008-02-10 10:28 < geniice> zocky you are free to edit wikibooks or versity if you want that feeling back
2008-02-10 10:28 < slashem> and you know, I've given Wikipedia over a year of my life, and I've learned just about everything I can about it, and I've decided I don't believe in the ideals
2008-02-10 10:29 < Ttech> Warpath, yes?
2008-02-10 10:29 < zocky> geniice, ah, but I'm not interested in the feeling. i'm interested in the encyclopedia.
2008-02-10 10:29 < Warpath> oh he left a while ago :)
2008-02-10 10:30 < slashem> the editor of the high-quality article that led me to join Wikipedia is slowly losing his mind battling not the vandals but the well-meaning idiots who keep inserting false statistics that contradict the well-sourced material already in the article
2008-02-10 10:30 < NotAPolecat> Right. This isn't the Boy Scouts, we're not around for the campfire group dynamics
2008-02-10 10:31 < NotAPolecat> slashem: The system can deal with all that.
2008-02-10 10:31 < slashem> it is an inescapable fact that as you try to raise quality standards there are less people able to maintain those quality standards so this ideal of "everyone can edit" is going to fall
2008-02-10 10:31 < slashem> thus the push for "stable versions"
2008-02-10 10:31 < slashem> face it: You are being forced to choose between your founding ideals
2008-02-10 10:31 < slashem> maybe you don't realize it, but in fact your founding ideals conflict with each other so that is what you will do, whether you realize it or not
2008-02-10 10:31 < zocky> slashem, the ideal is to make the best encyclopedia that can be made with everybody editing it
2008-02-10 10:32 < geniice> slashem has he tried hidden comments?
2008-02-10 10:32 < slashem> _I_ tried hidden comments
2008-02-10 10:32 < slashem> I got blasted for it by some other _experienced_ editor
2008-02-10 10:32 < zocky> if you think there's need and interest in going for quality above the "everybody can edit" level, you're welcome to start a new project, or join one of the many other projects which have (so far unsuccesfully) tried to so so
2008-02-10 10:32 < zocky> *to do so
2008-02-10 10:32 < geniice> slashem link?
2008-02-10 10:33 < slashem> sorry, I don't really want to dig it up right now
2008-02-10 10:33 < Leslie_lap> my nephew stole $700 from his other grand parents. WTF?
2008-02-10 10:33 < slashem> anyway, feel free to try it yourself, maybe it will work for you
2008-02-10 10:33 < slashem> don't take my word for it
2008-02-10 10:34 < slashem> oh, and let's not mention internal politics
2008-02-10 10:34 < slashem> the dirty little secret we don't talk about
2008-02-10 10:34 < geniice> slashem Link or it didn't happen
2008-02-10 10:34 < NotAPolecat> uh...everybody is constantly talking about it.
2008-02-10 10:34 < slashem> fine it didn't happen, I'm not here to prove anything to you
2008-02-10 10:35 < slashem> that's funny, talking about internal politics has a way of getting you banned on-wiki
2008-02-10 10:35 < geniice> not remotely
2008-02-10 10:36 < slashem> ok fine, it didn't happen
2008-02-10 10:37 < geniice> I've been around since 2004 been involved in far too much poltic and yet I'm still around
2008-02-10 10:38 < Dtobias> Jimbo has said I should "find a new hobby" and JzG said I'm "on thin ice", but I'm not banned yet.
2008-02-10 10:38 < Dtobias> The Clique does try its best to suppress people and ideas it dislikes, though.
2008-02-10 10:39 < slashem> in my experience there is more than one clique
2008-02-10 10:39 < slashem> and navigating between them is a challenge
2008-02-10 10:41 < geniice> nah just move fast and know where you are going
2008-02-10 10:48 < geniice> the cliques are a nusense but outside their core areas are rarely as strong as they think they are
2008-02-10 10:48 < slashem> hm
2008-02-10 10:48 < slashem> there are some pretty strong cliques
2008-02-10 10:48 < slashem> I suppose the wisest thing is to stay away from them, wikipedia is certainly big enough
2008-02-10 10:49 < slashem> perhaps I am just not wise enough
2008-02-10 10:51 < geniice> or try http://www.veropedia.com/
2008-02-10 10:51 < slashem> to be honest, I was never that interested in the whole online-encyclopedia ideal
2008-02-10 10:52 < slashem> i was just looking for something interesting to do, and then I wanted to understand how it worked
2008-02-10 10:53 < Viele-baeren> !admin?
2008-02-10 10:53 < Viele-baeren> White_Cat: ping?
2008-02-10 10:53 < geniice> slashem no one understands how wikipedia works
2008-02-10 10:54 < slashem> well, that is what makes it interesting
2008-02-10 10:54 < geniice> slashem but you may like commons
2008-02-10 10:54 < slashem> and it's changing very fast as well
2008-02-10 10:54 < Viele-baeren> geniice: admin@en?
2008-02-10 10:54 < geniice> not for quite a while
2008-02-10 10:54 < Viele-baeren> :S
2008-02-10 10:54 < slashem> well, initially I got interested in wikipedia because I like to write
2008-02-10 10:54 < White_Cat> Viele-baeren yes?
2008-02-10 10:54 < Viele-baeren> White_Cat: can you please restore http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Image:Cuneiform_script.jpg&action=edit ?
2008-02-10 10:54 < slashem> and I found a lot of entries that needed copy-editing
2008-02-10 10:55 < slashem> but to be honest the whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth
2008-02-10 10:55 < Viele-baeren> i would like to rework/restore it on commons and i need the original therefor
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> I cant
2008-02-10 10:56 < Viele-baeren> :S
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> not an admin on en.wikipedia
2008-02-10 10:56 < Viele-baeren> :((
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> yea
2008-02-10 10:56 < Viele-baeren> i thought you are one
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> heh
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> :)
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> never was
2008-02-10 10:56 < White_Cat> probably never will be
2008-02-10 10:56 * White_Cat is unpopular
2008-02-10 10:56 * White_Cat is very unpopular
2008-02-10 10:57 * White_Cat is so unpopular that peasant girls laugh when it makes a suggestion
2008-02-10 10:57 < Viele-baeren> cu
2008-02-10 10:57 < White_Cat> aw :)
2008-02-10 10:57 < White_Cat> ok ok maye not that unpopular :P
2008-02-10 11:02 < danopia`school> a lot of joins lol
2008-02-10 11:02 * danopia`school lnotices the random bans
2008-02-10 11:03 < zocky> ok, so this recipe tells me to put the meat and veggies in aluminium foil, fold the foil edges securely into a pouch, and put in oven until the meat is done and the veggies are crisp
2008-02-10 11:03 < zocky> how the hell am I supposed to know when the meat is done inside the aluminium foil pouch? use my x-ray vision?
2008-02-10 11:03 < Messedrocker> hah
2008-02-10 11:04 < Messedrocker> well, don't try cooking it in the microwave!
2008-02-10 11:12 < Leslie_lap> zocky you open it carefully.
2008-02-10 11:12 < Leslie_lap> zocky i cooked like that once, but it was over a campfire...
2008-02-10 11:12 < Leslie_lap> and it was also mass produced, so once you figure out how long one takes, you time the others for the same time... :D
2008-02-10 11:13 < Ceiling_Cat> hrm
2008-02-10 11:13 < Ceiling_Cat> wikipedia is in read-only mode
2008-02-10 11:13 < zocky> Leslie_lap, whichever way you open it, you let out the steam, and if it's not done, you've screwed it up
2008-02-10 11:13 < Leslie_lap> zocky oh, really? :o
2008-02-10 11:13 < Leslie_lap> anyway gots to go
2008-02-10 11:15 < danopia> i cook like that over the campfire, and ou tell how done it is my how black the foil is
2008-02-10 11:15 < danopia> by* you*
2008-02-10 11:15 * Ceiling_Cat sighs
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> I hearby authorize Wikipedia to display this
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> photograph as an illustration to their entry page for
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> Matthew Fisher.
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> No other permission is granted to any person or
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> publication or website.
2008-02-10 11:15 < Ceiling_Cat> (This is why OTRS is a soul-killing job)
2008-02-10 11:19 < ACe_maC> trading pm me
2008-02-10 11:19 < Messedrocker> delete away, dr. mccormick
2008-02-10 11:20 < danopia> i hear wikipedia is in readonly mode?
2008-02-10 11:20 < CharlotteWebb> if you're blocked
2008-02-10 11:25 < Sfan00> Ping Weasel?
2008-02-10 11:25 < Sfan00> Any experts on Austrian Public Order laws?
2008-02-10 11:34 < Filanca> hi
2008-02-10 11:35 < ACe_maC> hi Filanca
2008-02-10 11:38 < Ceiling_Cat> danopia - it's better now, my son
2008-02-10 11:42 < Ceiling_Cat> Hello Cyrius
2008-02-10 11:43 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat can has my greetings
2008-02-10 11:46 < Ceiling_Cat> :)
2008-02-10 11:48 < ACe_maC> cashiers pm
2008-02-10 11:48 < Ceiling_Cat> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Banjo_eating_Noobeez.jpg
2008-02-10 11:48 * Ceiling_Cat chuckles
2008-02-10 11:49 < Cyrius> I like the little bit lying off to one side
2008-02-10 11:50 * danopia feels like uploading his folder of random images to the commons
2008-02-10 11:50 < Cyrius> only if they're freely licensed =)
2008-02-10 11:51 < slashem> why are noobeez orange and black?
2008-02-10 11:58 < Ceiling_Cat> !!!!!!!!!!!
2008-02-10 11:59 < Ceiling_Cat> Anonemouse has not edited sinec jan 25
2008-02-10 12:02 < Sfan00> Any from CVU in?
2008-02-10 12:02 < Sfan00> or the anti vandal squad?
2008-02-10 12:03 < Seddon> im around, not reguilar but im there every now and then
2008-02-10 12:03 < Seddon> regular*
2008-02-10 12:03 < Sfan00> OK Only a warniong as today is Feb 10th
2008-02-10 12:03 < Ceiling_Cat> Herpes, the herald of the Olympian gods, is daughter of Zeus and the nympho Maia, daughter of Atlas and one of the Pleiades. Herpes is the goddess of prostitutes, time travel, merchandise, dishonesty, and self delusion and is known for her cunning personality and capacity to drive men to drink and depression. Most importantly, she is the messenger of the gods.
2008-02-10 12:03 < Sfan00> And there have been a number of anti-Scientology protests
2008-02-10 12:04 < Sfan00> It would be good advice to consider protection on sensitive articles related to that topic or the controversies surronding them
2008-02-10 12:05 < Ceiling_Cat> NOOOOOOOOO!!!!
2008-02-10 12:06 < Ceiling_Cat> http://uncyclopedia.org/index.php?title=God%2C_kittens%2C_masturbation%2C_killing%2C_and_you&action=edit
2008-02-10 12:06 < Ceiling_Cat> They deleted it!!
2008-02-10 12:10 < NotAPolecat> For I have got/Another girl/You're making me say that I've got/Nobody but you but...
2008-02-10 12:10 < NotAPolecat> *rawks
2008-02-10 12:16 < NotAPolecat> what does the Russian word "razvyedchik" mean?
2008-02-10 12:18 < kibble> NotAPolecat: try #wikipedia-ru
2008-02-10 12:18 < NotAPolecat> Won't bother, I thought zocky might be about
2008-02-10 12:25 < Alkivar> anyone know a good place to get lcd monitor reviews?
2008-02-10 12:26 < slashem> i usually just look at what is most popular on pricegrabber.com
2008-02-10 12:26 < slashem> their users are usually pretty tech savvy
2008-02-10 12:26 < Alkivar> not too many people go shopping for 30" LCDs at the moment
2008-02-10 12:27 < Alkivar> so user reviews arent very helpful
2008-02-10 12:27 < slashem> pricegrabber ranks by actual sales, so you can see what people are actually buying, much more useful than individual reviews
2008-02-10 12:29 < Alkivar> and just like i figured... 5 stars based on 1 or 2 reviews
2008-02-10 12:29 < slashem> no that's not the part I'm talking about
2008-02-10 12:29 < Alkivar> you cant buy based on 1 or 2 reviews
2008-02-10 12:29 < slashem> I think you are not understanding what I am saying
2008-02-10 12:30 < geniice> Alkivar go to an actual physical shop and have a look
2008-02-10 12:30 < geniice> ?
2008-02-10 12:30 < Alkivar> nothing around me stocks 30" LCDs
2008-02-10 12:30 < Alkivar> biggest they go is 24"
2008-02-10 12:31 < Alkivar> and i dont have the ability to direct compare say the apple 30" cinema display with the gateway XHD3000
2008-02-10 12:33 < Alkivar> and quite frankly its hard to dump 1600$ on an LCD without some indepth reviews
2008-02-10 12:40 < CharlotteWebb> the lcds i've used were difficult to see the screen from an angle
2008-02-10 12:41 < Alkivar> most of them are TN panels which have a narrow angle
2008-02-10 12:41 < Alkivar> cause TN panels are cheapest to make
2008-02-10 12:42 < CharlotteWebb> but it's good for laptops that you might use in public
2008-02-10 12:42 < CharlotteWebb> privacy by defect
2008-02-10 12:44 < Alkivar> its even better when you add the gloss to the screen... then you not only cant read it... but you have extra glare in your eyes from the side too!
2008-02-10 12:44 < CharlotteWebb> shoulder surfing is the term i wanted
2008-02-10 12:44 < Sfan00> !ping CVU team
2008-02-10 12:45 < CharlotteWebb> you mean the plastic stuff that peels off
2008-02-10 12:45 < CharlotteWebb> to avoid scratches during shipment. yeah some people just leave it on
2008-02-10 12:47 < Sfan00> Hi
2008-02-10 12:48 < Sfan00> Is Wikipedia covering the Xenuphobic demonstrations neturally?
2008-02-10 12:48 < Messedrocker> hah
2008-02-10 12:48 < Messedrocker> xenuphobic
2008-02-10 12:48 < Messedrocker> that's rich
2008-02-10 12:50 < Alkivar> No Charlotte... i mean the high gloss LCD panels they're putting out now that are supposed to enhance contrast when looking straight on... but are horribly shiny and glare like crazy under direct lighting
2008-02-10 12:50 < Sfan00> Messedrocker: ROFL
2008-02-10 12:50 < Sfan00> OK maybe you are right that Xenuphobic is in itself POV :)
2008-02-10 12:54 < Alkivar> http://www.unconfirmedsources.com/index.php?itemid=3013
2008-02-10 12:55 < NotAPolecat> It's inaccurate in the sense that they neither hate nor fear Xenu
2008-02-10 12:55 < Sfan00> Alkivar: ROFLcopter in TRENTON,NJ on WHEELS :) ;)
2008-02-10 12:55 < NotAPolecat> They just don't believe the whole garbage.
2008-02-10 12:56 < Sfan00> Who says it's garbage>
2008-02-10 12:56 < Sfan00> ?
2008-02-10 12:56 < Sfan00> Anon is attacking the actions of some members
2008-02-10 12:56 < NotAPolecat> And would rather Scientology would stick to the law of the land
2008-02-10 12:56 < Sfan00> not Scienology as a whole
2008-02-10 12:56 < Sfan00> *Scientology
2008-02-10 12:56 < NotAPolecat> See, nothing against Xenu
2008-02-10 12:56 < NotAPolecat> :-D
2008-02-10 12:57 < NotAPolecat> In a way Scientology is Xenuphobic itself, isnt it?
2008-02-10 12:57 < NotAPolecat> I thought Xenu was a bad guy
2008-02-10 12:57 < Alkivar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfu7Sr50N7U <-- sounds like marketing psychobabble
2008-02-10 12:57 < Alkivar> thats David Miscavige the current head of Scientology
2008-02-10 12:58 < NotAPolecat> "Xenu (also Xemu), pronounced /ˈziːnuː/, according to Scientology founder (and science fiction writer) L. Ron Hubbard, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[1] of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that their essences remained, and that they...
2008-02-10 12:58 < NotAPolecat> ...form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[2][3] Members of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story."
2008-02-10 12:59 < NotAPolecat> See?
2008-02-10 12:59 < Sfan00> Alkivar: Wikinews has an item on : http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews_international_report:_%22Anonymous%22_holds_over_250_anti-Scientology_protests_worldwide
2008-02-10 12:59 < NotAPolecat> So maybe the protestors are Xenuphiles?
2008-02-10 12:59 < Sfan00> NotAPolecat: ROFL
2008-02-10 13:00 < NotAPolecat> It sort of reminds of an 1890 image I own
2008-02-10 13:00 < NotAPolecat> "T
2008-02-10 13:00 < NotAPolecat> "The World in 2000"
2008-02-10 13:00 < NotAPolecat> which has Prussian houses on Prussian railroad cars
2008-02-10 13:00 < NotAPolecat> with steam locomotives
2008-02-10 13:01 < quanticle|away> Sfan00: My friend is leading the anon protest in Minneapolis.
2008-02-10 13:01 < NotAPolecat> "in 2000, everyone will be able to move his residence at will"
2008-02-10 13:01 < Sfan00> quanticle: Can you get an interview?
2008-02-10 13:01 < quanticle> Sfan00: Sure. I have class with him tomorrow.
2008-02-10 13:01 < Sfan00> quanticle: Great
2008-02-10 13:02 < Sfan00> Please keep #Wikinews and the relevant article updated :)
2008-02-10 13:02 < quanticle> Heh. No problme
2008-02-10 13:02 < Alkivar> LOL one of the sydney signs is "THETANS OR GTFO"
2008-02-10 13:02 < Alkivar> hahahahahaha
2008-02-10 13:02 < Sfan00> Just be aware of what they've left themselves in for
2008-02-10 13:02 < Sfan00> Alkivar: i don't get the joke
2008-02-10 13:02 < Alkivar> its usually "Tits or GTFO"
2008-02-10 13:03 < Messedrocker> all the cool cats are h8n on scientology
2008-02-10 13:03 < Alkivar> on boards like 4chan
2008-02-10 13:04 < NotAPolecat> XENU'S SECOND COMING OR DIDNAE HAPPEN
2008-02-10 13:04 < Alkivar> another sign is "Super Powers $400,000"
2008-02-10 13:04 < Alkivar> lol
2008-02-10 13:04 < Alkivar> and "Tom Cruise Cant Fly"
2008-02-10 13:04 < quanticle> Sfan00: I'll try to get some pics of the Minneapolis protest as well.
2008-02-10 13:05 < Alkivar> several people in Guy Fawkes masks
2008-02-10 13:05 < Sfan00> In London?
2008-02-10 13:05 < Sfan00> Alkivar: Feel free to hop into #Wikinews
2008-02-10 13:06 < NotAPolecat> I liked V for Vendetta
2008-02-10 13:07 < NotACow> yay
2008-02-10 13:07 < NotACow> the temperature is up to 1
2008-02-10 13:07 < Lubaf> [[WP:GIANTDICK]] needs more dickbell.
2008-02-10 13:07 < NotAPolecat> My parents are in South Asia and are complaining about the coldness
2008-02-10 13:07 < Lubaf> [[WP:KOAN]] needs more koanbell.
2008-02-10 13:07 < Lubaf> [[WP:STUPID]] needs more dumbbell.
2008-02-10 13:07 < NotAPolecat> lol
2008-02-10 13:09 < NotAPolecat> *plays You're Going To Lose That Girl on an ancient guitar
2008-02-10 13:09 < bumm13> \o/
2008-02-10 13:10 < bumm13> hiya PoleWeasel
2008-02-10 13:11 < NotAPolecat> heh
2008-02-10 13:11 < NotAPolecat> better than Weaselpole
2008-02-10 13:11 < NotAPolecat> not to be confused with Sir Hugh Walpole
2008-02-10 13:11 < Sfan00> I really wnat to find a Catweasel though :)
2008-02-10 13:11 < slashem> hey, what do you have against poles, anyway? I think you are a nationalist POV pusher!
2008-02-10 13:11 < Sfan00> It's like serious hardwrae
2008-02-10 13:11 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-10 13:12 * bumm13 slashes slashem
2008-02-10 13:12 < bumm13> :D
2008-02-10 13:12 * slashem winces
2008-02-10 13:12 * slashem bleeds
2008-02-10 13:12 < cimon> Isambard Brunel -not gointa mention any clours of holes...
2008-02-10 13:12 * NotAPolecat isn't a holecat either
2008-02-10 13:13 < NotAPolecat> Neither a Polecat-ot bikini
2008-02-10 13:13 < NotAPolecat> Okay, terrible pun
2008-02-10 13:13 < cimon> lets all lourdes to the same lavel...
2008-02-10 13:15 < NotAPolecat> thats a behavior up with which I shall not put.
2008-02-10 13:16 * quanticle thinks WP is developing its own philosophy
2008-02-10 13:16 < quanticle> [[m:Eventualism]]
2008-02-10 13:16 * NotAPolecat has always been an eventualist
2008-02-10 13:20 < gwern> I was an eventu-inclusionist before it was coined...
2008-02-10 13:20 * gwern is a little surprised the deletionists haven't tried to have a go at deleting Meta entirely
2008-02-10 13:20 < NotACow> gwern: i used to be, but then i realized that wikipedia has reached its peak
2008-02-10 13:21 < slashem> meta is it's own project!
2008-02-10 13:21 < slashem> notacow: explain?
2008-02-10 13:21 < gwern> NotACow: pfakfa! you've seen the page arguing that we still have about millions more articles to go, right?
2008-02-10 13:21 < NotAPolecat> It can still continue on its level if it sets more realistic goals.
2008-02-10 13:22 < NotAPolecat> We just can't be more than a competent repository
2008-02-10 13:22 < NotAPolecat> and we're very good at being that
2008-02-10 13:23 < slashem> well, I kind of wonder how you can expect people to maintain articles that they didn't write themselves
2008-02-10 13:23 < gwern> NotACow: I refer of course to [[User:Piotrus/Wikipedia interwiki and specialized knowledge test]]
2008-02-10 13:23 < slashem> or to be more blunt, to maintain quality that they can't achieve themselves
2008-02-10 13:23 < gwern> slashem: general and domain-specific knowledge to serve as sanity checks. vulnerable to plausible hoxing, but it's easier to maintain than create
2008-02-10 13:23 < slashem> hmm, pidgin stuck a tongue in there for me
2008-02-10 13:24 < slashem> gwern, that is not really what I mean by quality
2008-02-10 13:24 < slashem> quality articles are not just piles of facts, but that is what wikipedia articles inevitably decay into
2008-02-10 13:25 < RobJ1981> Is there an admin that can look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Professional_wrestling#A_message_from_Hornetman... ? A blocked user was stalked, and now an editor has posted a non-related comment there. I don't see this as productive or helpful to the encyclopedia.
2008-02-10 13:25 < gwern> slashem: I 'maintain' plenty of articles on CS topics I couldn't've written myself because the topic is too hard, but which I am perfectly competent in sorting out vandalism from constructive edits
2008-02-10 13:25 < eth01> .
2008-02-10 13:25 < NotAPolecat> Of course good academic prose takes talent