freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-06 16:16 < Sfan00> Like the french?
2008-02-06 16:16 < justlee> so what if he is morbidly obese? that doesn't mean that getting lipsuction is in his best interest
2008-02-06 16:16 < White_Cat> he would want to fly off at 9:11 and planes take out at 9:00
2008-02-06 16:16 < justlee> I still see that as no reason to say he should be cut up!
2008-02-06 16:17 < Dp67> if he were on the planes on 911 they would have never left the ground! lol
2008-02-06 16:17 < Sfan00> What is troubling is that the NHS isn't suing companies like McDonalds for obesity
2008-02-06 16:17 < Sfan00> related claims
2008-02-06 16:18 < gwern> justlee: I realize the evidence is weak for merely being overweight, but when you're morbidly obese, the studies are clear: your quality and quantity of life both go down, by a fair bit
2008-02-06 16:18 < White_Cat> He'd wate for 9 11 9110 9:11
2008-02-06 16:18 < White_Cat> *wait
2008-02-06 16:18 < White_Cat> thats 11th day of 9th month of year 9110 at 9:11
2008-02-06 16:18 < gwern> maybe not as much as with cigarettes, but enough so that not getting liposution is a questionable decision
2008-02-06 16:18 < NotACow> gwern: liposuction has no demonstrated medical benefits
2008-02-06 16:18 < justlee> gwern: I don'tfind the quality of my life is negatively affected
2008-02-06 16:18 < White_Cat> Seriously Giuliani needs a 9/11 T-shirt
2008-02-06 16:19 < Dp67> I don't sue McD's because I'm fat.. I'm fat because I choose to eat as much as I want when I want.. It's not McD's fault.. I don't see them with a gun to my head telling me to eat or die
2008-02-06 16:19 < NotACow> gwern: it's a purely cosmetic procedure
2008-02-06 16:19 < Sfan00> Dp67: LOL
2008-02-06 16:19 < White_Cat> giuliani should change his name to 9/11
2008-02-06 16:19 < White_Cat> hello mr. 9/11
2008-02-06 16:19 < Sfan00> And their advertising hasn't subtley influnced your choices?
2008-02-06 16:19 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-02-06 16:19 < justlee> and recent studies show they cost the health care system no more over their life times
2008-02-06 16:19 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm going to sue my local restaurant because I'm poor.
2008-02-06 16:19 < gwern> NotACow: taking dozens or hundred of pounds off someone is purely cosmetic?
2008-02-06 16:19 < gwern> interesting
2008-02-06 16:20 < NotACow> gwern: it doesn't solve any problems.
2008-02-06 16:20 < Sfan00> Cleraly on a indvidual level suing McDonalds is a non starter
2008-02-06 16:20 < Tony_Sidaway> I would be substantially richer if they didn't serve such lovely food.
2008-02-06 16:20 < NotACow> gwern: removing hundreds of pounds in a single liposunction would be malpractice
2008-02-06 16:20 < Sfan00> but a Govt suing McDonalds over it's advertising and labelling polices would be justfied
2008-02-06 16:20 < gwern> Dp67: obviously no smoker should have ever suedm by your logic
2008-02-06 16:20 < Sfan00> gwern: Nicotene has been proven to be addictive Gwern
2008-02-06 16:20 < gwern> NotACow: well, alright. gradually then, however they do it
2008-02-06 16:21 < Sfan00> McDonalds food doesn't as far as I know create dependence
2008-02-06 16:21 < justlee> really, with the recent studies showing that over a lifetime being obeses is cost effective, I don't see how a suit would be based
2008-02-06 16:21 < gwern> Sfan00: and fast food and stuff like sugar isn't?
2008-02-06 16:21 < Dp67> I smoke, and if it kills me it's not Philip Morris' fault its my fault..
2008-02-06 16:21 < NotACow> gwern: lipo is a cosmetic procedure, nothing more. it's never been demonstrated to ahve any medical benefit and certainly not that outweighs the rather substantial risks.
2008-02-06 16:21 < NotACow> gwern: most people who have fat removed by lipo gain it back
2008-02-06 16:21 < White_Cat> McDondalds had food in it?
2008-02-06 16:21 < Sfan00> DP67: You are defending the pusher?
2008-02-06 16:21 < White_Cat> I thought people went there for the sex
2008-02-06 16:21 < Sfan00> gwern: It doesn't create chemicla dependence in the way nicotene or Alchol does
2008-02-06 16:22 < NotACow> gwern: and you have scarring risks, infection risks, and the general risks of any surgical procedure.
2008-02-06 16:22 < Dp67> Not a pusher I choose to smoke.. They don't force me to smoke
2008-02-06 16:22 < Sfan00> At least that was my understanding
2008-02-06 16:22 < Sfan00> Try giving up
2008-02-06 16:22 < Dp67> I don't want to
2008-02-06 16:22 < Sfan00> and then you will really see :)
2008-02-06 16:22 < Sfan00> LOL
2008-02-06 16:22 < NotACow> Sfan00: alcohol doesn't create dependence.
2008-02-06 16:22 < Sfan00> Wasn't there a study that rgued otherwise?
2008-02-06 16:22 < NotACow> Sfan00: unless you really really abuse it -- but very few people drink that much
2008-02-06 16:23 < Sfan00> I know tabacoo does
2008-02-06 16:23 * gwern goes and reads [[Delirium tremens]]. clearly I don't actually know what it is
2008-02-06 16:23 < NotACow> gwern: DTs are very rare.
2008-02-06 16:23 < Sfan00> (A recnt claim that if you smoke 3-4 day initally you will spend the rets of your life trying to quit )
2008-02-06 16:23 < Dp67> speaking of which time to go burn one..
2008-02-06 16:23 < NotACow> gwern: and people who get DTs have been drinking six to eight drinks a day for years
2008-02-06 16:23 < justlee> hmpf
2008-02-06 16:23 < Demi> the health detriments of obesity, like diabetes risk and whatnot, seem to be based on lipid per cell, so taking out cells doesn't seem to affect them much
2008-02-06 16:23 < justlee> i took up smoking and was able to quit it
2008-02-06 16:23 < Demi> justlee - when did you start?
2008-02-06 16:24 < NotACow> Demi: indeed. lipo does nothing for the condition, it just temporarily removes some of the fat.
2008-02-06 16:24 < Sfan00> Anyone see the Horizon programme last night?
2008-02-06 16:24 < justlee> I was 17 kept it up for about a month
2008-02-06 16:24 < Sfan00> About ranking drugs by harm?
2008-02-06 16:24 < justlee> and then quit
2008-02-06 16:24 < NotACow> Demi: the thing is, most of the research on obesity and related issues is polluted
2008-02-06 16:24 < gwern> 'Refined sugar is extremely addictive. Not "addictive" in the sense that you just really like it, but addictive in the sense that your body suffers withdrawal symptoms if sugar is removed from your diet. While sugar doesn't have the instantly addictive quality of, say, crack cocaine, recent studies suggest that refined sugar activates opioids, the same brain chemicals that fuel heroin and morphine addiction, with similar results at a ...
2008-02-06 16:24 < gwern> ... lesser magnitude.' http://www.rotten.com/library/crime/drugs/sugar/ <-- I wish rotten.com would cite more sources. they usually seem right, but I'd like to read those studies
2008-02-06 16:24 < NotACow> Demi: you have people with ideological bones about fat, you have drug companies pushing their lated weight control/weight loss product, and surgeons pusing various bariatric surgeries.
2008-02-06 16:25 < NotACow> Demi: almost all the research is tainted, and when you do find a study that isn't, it almost always contradicts all the others.
2008-02-06 16:25 < Huntster> gwern, I'll attest to that; I'm seriously addicted to sweet tea.
2008-02-06 16:26 < Demi> NotACow - yes
2008-02-06 16:26 < Sfan00> Diet drugs are sometimes just as bad from a 'serious publich health' perspective as the obesity
2008-02-06 16:26 < NotACow> Demi: i'm therefore not inclined to follow "research" that contradicts common sense
2008-02-06 16:27 < NotACow> Demi: my favorite study is the one that correlated BMI to overall health and frequency of medical intervention
2008-02-06 16:27 < justlee> and this "you will have more energy if you lose weight" is just stupid
2008-02-06 16:27 < Sfan00> The Horizon research BTW ranked Heroin as the worst most dangerous drung around
2008-02-06 16:27 < Sfan00> Which I am inclined to say is probably accurate
2008-02-06 16:27 < justlee> NotACow: Would you like me to have more energy?
2008-02-06 16:27 < NotACow> Demi: and found that women with BMIs in the "obese" range had overall better health and overall fewer medical interventions than those in the "normal" range.
2008-02-06 16:27 < Demi> subjectively i have a lot less fatigue when i'm exercising regularly, and i certainly have less pain in my knees when i'm less heavy
2008-02-06 16:27 < NotACow> justlee: i have trouble keeping up with you as it is
2008-02-06 16:28 < justlee> yes, so do I.
2008-02-06 16:28 < gwern> Sfan00: I could believe. Of my relatives, I lost one to tobacco, and one to heroin
2008-02-06 16:28 < Demi> NotACow - we barely understand fat in terms of sexual dimorphism
2008-02-06 16:28 < justlee> but exercising regularly doesn't make me not obese
2008-02-06 16:28 < NotACow> Demi: all studies are done with men as the default anyway
2008-02-06 16:28 < NotACow> Demi: women are just an afterthought.
2008-02-06 16:28 < Demi> yes
2008-02-06 16:28 < Sfan00> BTW some infromal comments on the Horizon reckoned Alchol and Heroin and Tabcoo were the biggest problem drugs
2008-02-06 16:28 < Sfan00> Alcohol and Heroin in particular
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> you can't have my booe
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> booe
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> booze
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> damn key
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> z
2008-02-06 16:29 < NotACow> z
2008-02-06 16:29 < Sfan00> Suprsingly Canabis was controversialy ranked lower than alchol, DEPSITE the studies linking it with phycosis
2008-02-06 16:29 < Demi> when i'm quite a bit lighter than i am now, i do feel better in all kinds of ways; and i am conscious of overeating patterns i have where i eat for emotional reasons. i would like to modify both of those things for subjective reasons
2008-02-06 16:29 < justlee> I can't have your booze? But it is my booze too
2008-02-06 16:29 < Demi> and yet, i love fat women, so there you have it
2008-02-06 16:30 < NotACow> Demi: well, you know what they say about fat-bottomed girls :)
2008-02-06 16:30 < IronManMario> hello
2008-02-06 16:30 < NotACow> OLLEH
2008-02-06 16:30 < Comets> ola
2008-02-06 16:30 < justlee> EHLO
2008-02-06 16:30 < Snowolf> hi IronManMario
2008-02-06 16:30 < IronManMario> heh this was weird, I tryed looking up 'book' in the french wikipedia and it came up with some weird story about a babysitter
2008-02-06 16:30 < Demi> NotACow - i like to have sex with them? is that what they say?
2008-02-06 16:30 < Comets> 43110
2008-02-06 16:30 < NotACow> Demi: mmm.
2008-02-06 16:30 < FoeNyx> IronManMario> hmm ?
2008-02-06 16:31 < NotACow> Comets: that's .01134
2008-02-06 16:31 < FoeNyx> IronManMario> which article was it ?
2008-02-06 16:31 < gwern> Sfan00: I'll take cannabis, even with some weak links to psychosis, over cirrhosis and the significant brain damage of alcohol, anyday
2008-02-06 16:31 < Comets> :O
2008-02-06 16:31 < NotACow> IronManMario: nobody reads articles about common ordinary things like books anytway
2008-02-06 16:31 < Sfan00> Alchol: Brain damage?
2008-02-06 16:31 < IronManMario> le livre. now i see i should have just put in livre lol
2008-02-06 16:31 < NotACow> wikipedia's articles on everyday objects typically suck ass
2008-02-06 16:32 < NotACow> wikipedia doesn't even have an article about "air"
2008-02-06 16:32 < Snowolf> it doesn't? O.o
2008-02-06 16:32 < IronManMario> apparantly livre can mean something about money too
2008-02-06 16:32 < IronManMario> and book
2008-02-06 16:32 < NotACow> Snowolf: it's redirected to "Earth's atmosphere"
2008-02-06 16:32 < FoeNyx> well "Le livre" seems to be the title of a short movie
2008-02-06 16:32 < Snowolf> already checked ;-)
2008-02-06 16:33 < FoeNyx> IronManMario> and the word livre is also used for pound (livre sterling)
2008-02-06 16:35 < gwern> of course we have an article on air. it's a major anime afterall
2008-02-06 16:35 < gwern> IronManMario: of course livre means money. didn't you ever read about the french revolution and how the government was millions of livres in debt?
2008-02-06 16:35 < IronManMario> no
2008-02-06 16:35 < IronManMario> not really
2008-02-06 16:35 < NotACow> i always thought that meant that they were using beef livers as a currency.
2008-02-06 16:36 < IronManMario> use porte means a door
2008-02-06 16:36 < NotACow> or maybe chicken livers
2008-02-06 16:36 < NotACow> french people are weird, after all
2008-02-06 16:36 < NotACow> it's not like you can eat those damn things
2008-02-06 16:36 < justlee> Dole was on the Colbert show promoting his new musical?
2008-02-06 16:36 < IronManMario> hehe i just quoted you in the french wikipedia channel
2008-02-06 16:37 < IronManMario> now to watch all the french people spam you...
2008-02-06 16:37 < gwern> be difficult to deposit livers
2008-02-06 16:37 < IronManMario> hehehe
2008-02-06 16:37 < gwern> vitamin-alicious!
2008-02-06 16:37 < IronManMario> ...its not working
2008-02-06 16:37 * gwern hopes the 'you' refers to NotACow
2008-02-06 16:37 < IronManMario> it does
2008-02-06 16:37 < IronManMario> <NotACow> french people are weird, after all
2008-02-06 16:41 < FoeNyx> IronManMario> well, we've been used to being bashed ~ quite boring
2008-02-06 16:41 < NotACow> hm
2008-02-06 16:41 < NotACow> AP now reports clinton with 1000 delegates, obama with 902
2008-02-06 16:42 < IronManMario> heheheheheh
2008-02-06 16:42 < NotACow> if you take off superdels, that's 787 for clinton, 763 for obama
2008-02-06 16:42 < NotACow> obama will pick up 50-60 dels in the next two weeks
2008-02-06 16:43 < NotACow> so it'll be a solid dead heat at the end of the month
2008-02-06 16:43 * Viagra_Cat facehuggles gwern
2008-02-06 16:43 < IronManMario> the lyrics to paranoid by black sabbath dont match up to what ozzy is really saying
2008-02-06 16:43 < FoeNyx> a solid dad hat ?
2008-02-06 16:44 < Sfan00> IornManMario: Was that during the period he was off his head?
2008-02-06 16:44 < IronManMario> instead of what the lyrics say 'all that real' he sais 'unreal'
2008-02-06 16:44 < IronManMario> idk
2008-02-06 16:45 < Ceiling_Cat> Gwern - is that a Viagra_Cat on your face or are you just happy to see me?
2008-02-06 16:46 * Sannse_cat stares at Ceiling_Cat
2008-02-06 16:46 * Mike_H pets Sannse_cat
2008-02-06 16:46 * Sannse_cat cuddles Mike_H
2008-02-06 16:47 < Demi> is Sannse_cat really sannse?
2008-02-06 16:47 < IronManMario> the live version of paranoid is better then the studio
2008-02-06 16:47 < ggreer> NotACow: I don't understand why people vote for hillary :/
2008-02-06 16:47 < Sannse_cat> Demi: no
2008-02-06 16:47 < Demi> well, poo
2008-02-06 16:47 < NotACow> ggreer: they want the glory days of the 1990s back
2008-02-06 16:48 < Demi> well, they may not like the other fellow, as well
2008-02-06 16:48 < NotACow> ggreer: and by voting for clinton, the economy will instantly ge tbetter, rose petals will fall from the sky, and we'll all have cushy jobs with dot.coms with free manicures and espresso machines on every floor
2008-02-06 16:48 < Mike_H> Sannse_cat: >:(
2008-02-06 16:48 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat
2008-02-06 16:48 < justlee> and this time, they will actually get in on the IPOs
2008-02-06 16:48 < ggreer> NotACow: well I don't have the free manicures or the rose petals
2008-02-06 16:48 < Mike_H> change your name back or I'll let brianmc glue you to the ceiling again
2008-02-06 16:48 < ggreer> but I can't complain right now
2008-02-06 16:48 < ggreer> heh
2008-02-06 16:49 * Sannse_cat pets Mike_H and hopes Mike_H stops burning a hole in his retinas
2008-02-06 16:49 < Mike_H> Sannse_cat: now :(
2008-02-06 16:49 < Sannse_cat> Mike_H: why?
2008-02-06 16:49 * Ceiling_Cat watches Sannse_Cat
2008-02-06 16:50 < ggreer> were the 1990's that great? I was 14 at the end of 1999 so it's not like I was out looking for jobs
2008-02-06 16:50 < Mike_H> brown_cat: Sannse is a name of a Wikipedian and I don't think she'd take it too kindly that you're "using her name," so to speak
2008-02-06 16:50 < Mike_H> that and people get confused a lot
2008-02-06 16:50 < NotACow> yeah, we can have you killed for that
2008-02-06 16:50 < brown_cat> :o that's why people thought i was sannse :(
2008-02-06 16:50 < Mike_H> Yeah, I can burn holes with my retinas.
2008-02-06 16:50 < Mike_H> brown_cat: yes
2008-02-06 16:50 * Mike_H pets brown_cat
2008-02-06 16:50 < NotACow> people like sannse
2008-02-06 16:50 < NotACow> they don't like you :)
2008-02-06 16:50 < Demi> yes
2008-02-06 16:51 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - ouch. Harsh.
2008-02-06 16:51 * NotACow is the queen of harsh
2008-02-06 16:51 * Mike_H tips NotACow
2008-02-06 16:51 < IronManMario> LOIL
2008-02-06 16:51 * Ceiling_Cat cries
2008-02-06 16:51 < IronManMario> * LOL
2008-02-06 16:51 < Ceiling_Cat> I need help with the photo submission queue
2008-02-06 16:52 < Ceiling_Cat> hrm
2008-02-06 16:52 < Mike_H> NotACow: You haven't seen harsh yet. I made some guy give up his accreditation at Wikinews because I called him a catty stealth bitch.
2008-02-06 16:52 < NotACow> Mike_H: lame
2008-02-06 16:52 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat pm
2008-02-06 16:52 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: delete them all. they're all copyright infringements anyway.
2008-02-06 16:52 < Mike_H> NotACow: well, it was true, I PMed him to tell him not to tell me to shut up
2008-02-06 16:52 < Mike_H> and he copies the PM into the main channel
2008-02-06 16:52 < Mike_H> sorry, that's a catty stealth bitch move
2008-02-06 16:52 < NotACow> Mike_H: no, no, it's lame that he resigned over that
2008-02-06 16:52 < IronManMario> giggitygiggitygiggity
2008-02-06 16:52 < NotACow> Mike_H: like, dude, if you can't take being called a bitch....
2008-02-06 16:53 < Quizzy> hey NotACow
2008-02-06 16:53 < Mike_H> NotACow: and ironically, the fight that started while he was in the room (that led up to all that), it was resolved like 15 minutes after he left and resigned his accreditation
2008-02-06 16:53 < Mike_H> so the moral of the story?
2008-02-06 16:53 < Mike_H> Lulz.
2008-02-06 16:53 < NotACow> Mike_H: sounds like good riddance to me
2008-02-06 16:53 < Quizzy> speaking of lulz
2008-02-06 16:53 < Quizzy> I'm protesting sunday
2008-02-06 16:54 < NotACow> Mike_H: shame we can't get more people do to that on wikipedia....
2008-02-06 16:54 < Mike_H> NotACow: Haha, and it didn't even happen on Wikinews
2008-02-06 16:54 < Mike_H> it was on IRC
2008-02-06 16:54 < Demi> people will never get the hang of quoting filenames, will they?
2008-02-06 16:54 < NotACow> i think if you got rid of about 90% of wikipedia's editors, it would get a lot better.
2008-02-06 16:54 < Mike_H> and he resigned his stuff because of me calling him a bitch on IRC
2008-02-06 16:54 < Comets> Mike_H, who? O_O
2008-02-06 16:55 < Mike_H> Meekel. I tried to apologize to him for my behavior but he won't hear it.
2008-02-06 16:55 < Comets> eek :S
2008-02-06 16:55 < Mike_H> I mean, I feel bad for acting like a raving asshole
2008-02-06 16:55 < Mike_H> but you know
2008-02-06 16:55 < Mike_H> he wasn't innocent either.
2008-02-06 16:56 < Comets> XD
2008-02-06 16:56 * Quizzy spanks Comets
2008-02-06 16:56 < FoeNyx> "<NotACow> i think if you got rid of about 90% of wikipedia's editors, it would get a lot better." except if you keep the worst 10%
2008-02-06 16:56 < Demi> you know, it's not like you can never have files with spaces in them on unix
2008-02-06 16:56 < Comets> :O
2008-02-06 16:57 * Mike_H spanks Quizzy
2008-02-06 16:57 * Quizzy moans
2008-02-06 16:57 < Mike_H> :DD
2008-02-06 16:57 * Ceiling_Cat watches Mike_H spank it
2008-02-06 16:57 < Mike_H> That ceiling is made of concrete!
2008-02-06 16:57 < IronManMario> how about the spirit temple theme from OoT
2008-02-06 16:58 < Quizzy> How do i get a article to get the Featured Article tag?
2008-02-06 16:59 < Comets> {{FA}}
2008-02-06 16:59 < Comets> :P
2008-02-06 16:59 < Comets> peer review then article review
2008-02-06 17:02 < NotACow> don't forget nubbin review
2008-02-06 17:02 < NotACow> and review review
2008-02-06 17:03 < NotACow> and review review review
2008-02-06 17:03 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 17:03 < Comets> and finally jimbo review :D
2008-02-06 17:04 < Quizzy> oh dear lord
2008-02-06 17:04 < Quizzy> does he reviews each featured article?
2008-02-06 17:05 < placebo_effect> what about cabal review
2008-02-06 17:05 < Quizzy> the bathrobe cabal review?
2008-02-06 17:05 < brown_cat> Mike_H: I love the way they said on fox why hillary will win :p
2008-02-06 17:05 < brown_cat> "because obama is black" xD
2008-02-06 17:05 < Demi> i really dislike buggy configure scripts
2008-02-06 17:06 < Mike_H> NotACow: I am NOT reviewing your nubbin, or any other appendage.
2008-02-06 17:07 < brown_cat> if you rub my belly, you will get good luck this chinese new year
2008-02-06 17:08 < Squalid> Project Chanology has been submitted to FA
2008-02-06 17:09 < IronManMario> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xl1H0kJV-Wg&feature=related LOL
2008-02-06 17:11 < Squalid> gosh
2008-02-06 17:11 < Squalid> i so <3 the Vicks scented puffs kleenex
2008-02-06 17:11 < Demi> you know, if you're deploying an application written in a language, and that language has a build system, you should use it
2008-02-06 17:11 < Demi> instead of having cruddy buggy Makefiles and autoconf scripts and crap
2008-02-06 17:12 < IronManMario> If programs run under the operating system, what does the operating system run under?
2008-02-06 17:12 < Sfan00> Squalid: Why should an organisation thats used criminal tactics be given the FA slot?
2008-02-06 17:13 * gwern takes off and nukes Viagra_Cat from orbit. it's the only way to be sure
2008-02-06 17:13 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: it's a gift from me to you
2008-02-06 17:13 < Sfan00> It's not as if they are notable but for the current row
2008-02-06 17:13 < gwern> NotACow: and hillary will push through a healthplan this time!
2008-02-06 17:13 < gwern> Mike_H: maybe that's just Sannse's cat? on the internet, no one knows you are a cat, afterall
2008-02-06 17:13 < gwern> ggreer: I thought the '90s were better than the 80s for sure
2008-02-06 17:13 < IronManMario> thats what weve thought every time a new president is gonna be elected.
2008-02-06 17:14 < IronManMario> <gwern> NotACow: and hillary will push through a healthplan this time!
2008-02-06 17:14 < IronManMario> other stuff too
2008-02-06 17:14 < Demi> an operating system is made of programs
2008-02-06 17:17 < freshmeat> Hey all
2008-02-06 17:17 < freshmeat> ...I have a history question
2008-02-06 17:17 < freshmeat> Anyone around?
2008-02-06 17:17 < brown_cat> no
2008-02-06 17:17 < Pilotguy> GO TAR HEELS!!!!!!
2008-02-06 17:17 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-02-06 17:19 < IronManMario> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HIavxnUHls&feature=related
2008-02-06 17:19 < IronManMario> lol, thought police
2008-02-06 17:20 < freshmeat> Hey, guys -- why didn't the Canadian colonies and American colonies associated themselves with one another?
2008-02-06 17:20 < freshmeat> Why didn't they want to become independent together?
2008-02-06 17:20 < freshmeat> ...they all had British colonial heritages.
2008-02-06 17:20 < freshmeat> associate *
2008-02-06 17:20 < IronManMario> i think i remember this from school
2008-02-06 17:20 < Demi> canadians didn't want independence, probably because they sucked
2008-02-06 17:21 < IronManMario> canada was founded by the french
2008-02-06 17:21 < freshmeat> Why didn't the Canadian and American colonies become independent together as one country?
2008-02-06 17:21 < freshmeat> IronManMario: that's not true
2008-02-06 17:21 < IronManMario> ok then
2008-02-06 17:21 < IronManMario> school lies
2008-02-06 17:21 < freshmeat> IronManMario: only Quebec was owned by France
2008-02-06 17:21 < freshmeat> ...the rest was British
2008-02-06 17:21 < IronManMario> ok
2008-02-06 17:22 < freshmeat> Heh
2008-02-06 17:22 < freshmeat> So, why didn't the Canadian colonies become independent with the American colonies?
2008-02-06 17:22 < IronManMario> the people who still thought britain should control america moved their after we won the revolutionary war?
2008-02-06 17:22 < freshmeat> Was it because they were loyal to the crown?
2008-02-06 17:22 < IronManMario> i think school said something like that
2008-02-06 17:22 < IronManMario> ya
2008-02-06 17:23 < freshmeat> Sure, IronManMario... but, historically, what made the Canadian colonies more loyal to the crown?
2008-02-06 17:23 < Demi> a lack of national character
2008-02-06 17:23 < Demi> canadians like being subjects
2008-02-06 17:23 < Demi> this continues today
2008-02-06 17:23 < IronManMario> the people who were loyal to britain the hwole time that were in the new colonies were kicked out and had to go to canada i thinl
2008-02-06 17:23 < IronManMario> after the revolutionary war
2008-02-06 17:24 < shimgray> freshmeat: Canada was more newly settled, and more vulnerable
2008-02-06 17:24 < White_Cat> must kill...
2008-02-06 17:24 < shimgray> so they a) had less "drift" from the UK; and b)
2008-02-06 17:24 < Demi> remember also, it's very cold there
2008-02-06 17:24 < White_Cat> must...
2008-02-06 17:24 < White_Cat> kill...
2008-02-06 17:24 < shimgray> er
2008-02-06 17:24 < freshmeat> Demi: Canada is viewed as a multi-cultural country.
2008-02-06 17:24 * White_Cat uses shimgray to releave the urge to kill
2008-02-06 17:24 < shimgray> and b) were much less resentful of being taxed for their defence
2008-02-06 17:24 < Demi> freshmeat - by whom?
2008-02-06 17:24 < freshmeat> Demi: Canada itself
2008-02-06 17:24 < freshmeat> ...Canadians apparently do not believe in cultural assimilation
2008-02-06 17:25 < Demi> just because you put gravy on your fries doesn't make you "multi-cultural"
2008-02-06 17:25 < mavhc> you will all become one, with the ameriborg
2008-02-06 17:25 < freshmeat> But, personally, I don't really know what the national demonym of a Canadian is.
2008-02-06 17:25 < shimgray> my housemate was looking, earlier, for a discussion topic for the university's Canadian Society
2008-02-06 17:25 < freshmeat> ...I can't really pinpoint it.
2008-02-06 17:25 < shimgray> I suggested "Canada: what's the point?"
2008-02-06 17:25 < Demi> i don't think there was much to canada, in the period you're talking about, except for company trading posts and defense centers like halifax
2008-02-06 17:25 < mavhc> canada: it fills up space
2008-02-06 17:25 < shimgray> (we actually managed to construct a useful debate around that title...)
2008-02-06 17:26 < Demi> (we're all so mean)
2008-02-06 17:26 < White_Cat> freshmeat they do
2008-02-06 17:26 < IronManMario> freshman
2008-02-06 17:26 < freshmeat> People keep saying: `Canada? What's the point? We have America...'
2008-02-06 17:26 < mavhc> america is canada's mexico
2008-02-06 17:26 < White_Cat> mmm
2008-02-06 17:26 < White_Cat> Aaaah! Freshmeat!
2008-02-06 17:27 < freshmeat> I really don't see any point of Quebec being a Canadian province.
2008-02-06 17:27 < freshmeat> I have a feeling that Quebec will eventually become independent.
2008-02-06 17:28 < White_Cat> Qubec cant be independent
2008-02-06 17:28 < mavhc> we need tiny city states and a world government, no state big enough to invade a load of others
2008-02-06 17:29 < White_Cat> I wager they will join France
2008-02-06 17:29 < freshmeat> Why not?
2008-02-06 17:29 < freshmeat> Come on, man....
2008-02-06 17:29 < White_Cat> mavhc then what about our robotic overlords!?
2008-02-06 17:29 < White_Cat> freshmeat the French Surrender
2008-02-06 17:29 < freshmeat> White_Cat: Quebecans speak French, they are of somewhat a completely different culture of Anglo-Canada.
2008-02-06 17:29 < mavhc> countries just breed nationalism, get rid of them
2008-02-06 17:29 < freshmeat> I really don't see what Anglo-Canada and French Canada have in common
2008-02-06 17:29 < White_Cat> I'd wager France to join Qubec
2008-02-06 17:29 < White_Cat> and I win no money for betting equaly on both sides
2008-02-06 17:30 < freshmeat> White_Cat: Quebec is significantly larger than France.
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> now if it is a tie...
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> I am f***ed
2008-02-06 17:30 < lucasbfr> White_Cat: you should try to visit Belgium, and you'll see how Canada is much more consistent :)
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> freshmeat thats like saying norway is larger than the UK
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> lucasbfr why? Been there done that got the T-shirt
2008-02-06 17:30 < freshmeat> White_Cat: well, look at the world map... it's true.
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> arewise yes
2008-02-06 17:30 < White_Cat> population wise no
2008-02-06 17:31 < Demi> the pacific ocean is larger than anything
2008-02-06 17:31 < White_Cat> demi not the sun
2008-02-06 17:31 < Demi> it must naturally be the most powerful country
2008-02-06 17:31 < freshmeat> ...Quebec is way larger than France
2008-02-06 17:31 < IronManMario> what if 1984 is going to become true
2008-02-06 17:32 < Demi> freshmeat - sure, but what does that have to do with anything?
2008-02-06 17:33 < Phil_E> did wikipedia.org change?
2008-02-06 17:33 < lucasbfr> White_Cat: I think canadians feel much more canadian than Belgians (sp?)
2008-02-06 17:33 < freshmeat> Phil_E: ?
2008-02-06 17:34 < freshmeat> I think so
2008-02-06 17:34 < Phil_E> it looks different
2008-02-06 17:34 < White_Cat> lucasbfr well
2008-02-06 17:34 < Phil_E> the logo and search bar and all
2008-02-06 17:34 < freshmeat> Hey -- Google is comming up with a rival to Wikipedia ;w
2008-02-06 17:34 < freshmeat> Google is aiming to make it more reliable, though
2008-02-06 17:34 < White_Cat> I am sure belgians are a poor metric for nationalism these days
2008-02-06 17:34 < Sfan00> freshmeat: LOL
2008-02-06 17:34 < mavhc> google's wikipedia will be as good as wikipedia's google
2008-02-06 17:34 < freshmeat> I have a feeling that Google will just about suceed.
2008-02-06 17:35 < White_Cat> Googles wikipedia?
2008-02-06 17:35 < White_Cat> isnt that what wikipedia is?
2008-02-06 17:35 < freshmeat> Let's not pretend here, guys -- Wikipedia has some issue with vandalism and reliability.
2008-02-06 17:36 < mavhc> I've not seen vandalism on wp in months
2008-02-06 17:36 < White_Cat> freshmeat no not at all
2008-02-06 17:36 < IronManMario> your not looking in the right pages
2008-02-06 17:36 < mavhc> and wp is truth
2008-02-06 17:36 < White_Cat> WP is life
2008-02-06 17:36 < White_Cat> everything else is a big lie
2008-02-06 17:36 < IronManMario> WP sais mario is left handed :/
2008-02-06 17:36 < White_Cat> if it isnt on wikipedia it doesnt exit
2008-02-06 17:36 < mavhc> even cake?
2008-02-06 17:37 < freshmeat> I live Wikipedia -- my most widely accessed site.
2008-02-06 17:37 < NotACow> you "live" wikipedia?
2008-02-06 17:37 < freshmeat> ...but there is significant room for improvement.
2008-02-06 17:37 < freshmeat> love *
2008-02-06 17:37 < IronManMario> idk what site i go to most
2008-02-06 17:37 < NotACow> wikipedia is full of bees.
2008-02-06 17:37 < IronManMario> lol
2008-02-06 17:37 < IronManMario> that made me laugh for some reason
2008-02-06 17:37 < mavhc> some articles suck, a few don't exist, but I'm not noticed any inaccuracies
2008-02-06 17:39 < mavhc> whenever anyone says "wp is inaccurate" I get them to point out where, specifically, then fix it and ask again until they stop playing
2008-02-06 17:39 < IronManMario> why isnt there a page for No More Mr. Nice Guy (song) anymore
2008-02-06 17:39 < IronManMario> It redirects to the page of the album it's on
2008-02-06 17:40 < IronManMario> I remember editing the page for it
2008-02-06 17:40 < freshmeat> Wikipedia is great.
2008-02-06 17:40 < freshmeat> But it isn't 100%
2008-02-06 17:40 < freshmeat> There is room for improvement
2008-02-06 17:40 < mavhc> wp sucks, but every other site sucks more
2008-02-06 17:41 * NotACow has found lots of inaccuracies
2008-02-06 17:41 < mavhc> I only play the game with unskilled players, I'm not mad
2008-02-06 17:43 < IronManMario> anyone in here know more then 1 language
2008-02-06 17:43 < freshmeat> Guys
2008-02-06 17:43 < mavhc> english and C
2008-02-06 17:43 < freshmeat> Do you know what I fear?
2008-02-06 17:43 < mavhc> bees?
2008-02-06 17:43 < freshmeat> ...I really fear that in the future, there will be a whole host of wikipedia-like sites
2008-02-06 17:43 < freshmeat> ...and then we'd have any crackpot making some shitty wikipedia-like site
2008-02-06 17:44 < Starnestommy> I know a little latin
2008-02-06 17:44 < mavhc> you fear today then
2008-02-06 17:44 < freshmeat> You know, Google is joining this, and I have a feeling that Yahoo and MSN will eventually join the fun.
2008-02-06 17:44 < IronManMario> do you think in english or latin
2008-02-06 17:44 < Starnestommy> english
2008-02-06 17:44 < IronManMario> everyone thinks in english if they know it
2008-02-06 17:45 < Demi> wait a second, i wonder if user-created content could have something to it? someone on the internet should really think about that, maybe write an article or two.
2008-02-06 17:45 < Demi> it could really make the web different. So different it would need a new version. Let's call it... Web B. Awesome.
2008-02-06 17:45 < mavhc> that's why germans seem so tough, they hit their toe, think "fuck, that hurt, arrrrrgh", then whilst translating that into german it stops hurting so much
2008-02-06 17:46 < mavhc> web B.O?
2008-02-06 17:47 < freshmeat> Hey, guys... I'm starting to hate Knol already.
2008-02-06 17:47 < freshmeat> ...there's something fishy about it.
2008-02-06 17:48 < freshmeat> I think I will remain a loyal Wikipedia user.
2008-02-06 17:48 < mavhc> that it doesn't exist?
2008-02-06 17:48 < freshmeat> Well, mavhc, I've been reading about it recently.
2008-02-06 17:48 < freshmeat> ...Google's answer to Wikipedia.
2008-02-06 17:48 < mavhc> but have you seen it?
2008-02-06 17:48 < freshmeat> Yes, I have seen images of it and whatnot.
2008-02-06 17:49 < mavhc> anyone can make mockups
2008-02-06 17:49 < freshmeat> It isn't a mockup.
2008-02-06 17:50 < freshmeat> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Knol_lg.png
2008-02-06 17:51 < Demi> if there is a venn diagram of writers who want to write informational matter, knol exists at the intersection of a) all the crackpots who can't get along on wikipedia and b) all the incompetents who can't get paid to write
2008-02-06 17:51 < mavhc> heh, knol on wp, irony
2008-02-06 17:51 < Sfan00> Demi: Say plenty of knol pointers then ? ;)
2008-02-06 17:52 < freshmeat> "meant to be the first thing someone who searches for this topic for the first time will want to read", <-- something about that makes me uncomfortable
2008-02-06 17:52 < freshmeat> Knol sounds n00bish
2008-02-06 17:52 < freshmeat> That is, the target of its readers
2008-02-06 17:52 < freshmeat> I wouldn't like that
2008-02-06 17:53 < freshmeat> However -- I won't judge this quickly.
2008-02-06 17:53 < freshmeat> OMG
2008-02-06 17:53 < mavhc> why did google preannounce it, they almost never do that
2008-02-06 17:53 < freshmeat> Get this, guys -- `at the discretion of the author, an article may contain ads'.
2008-02-06 17:53 < freshmeat> ...oh, no
2008-02-06 17:53 < freshmeat> That really puts me off
2008-02-06 17:54 < freshmeat> Don't worry, guys -- Knol will not kill off Wikipedia.
2008-02-06 17:54 < freshmeat> Wikipedia will continue to have its loyal users.
2008-02-06 17:55 < mavhc> I love google, but I love wp more
2008-02-06 17:55 < freshmeat> However, I want to take and not be too pre-judgemental.
2008-02-06 17:55 < freshmeat> But the idea that an author may choose to include ads in his/her articles makes my stomach churn
2008-02-06 17:56 < freshmeat> There are some interesting features, though -- like a rating system.
2008-02-06 17:56 < LordAnubis> hi there, i need some person who knows a lot about suffix commands such as "printable=yes", any takers?
2008-02-06 17:56 < Sfan00> Wikipedia may have less users when the US liabilty for online content changes though
2008-02-06 17:57 < freshmeat> Sfan00: what?
2008-02-06 17:57 < mavhc> Sfan00: like anyone gives a fuck
2008-02-06 17:57 < freshmeat> `US liability for online content'?
2008-02-06 17:57 < freshmeat> That makes me laugh
2008-02-06 17:57 < freshmeat> wtf?
2008-02-06 17:57 < freshmeat> ARe they serious?
2008-02-06 17:58 < Sfan00> When the rules over what you can and can't say on the net change
2008-02-06 17:58 < mavhc> I just hope someone's writing a p2p web server, so websites can be hosted on a cloud, not in a country, so have no laws
2008-02-06 17:58 < Sfan00> Or when Wikipedia gets sued for defaming celebs and organisations
2008-02-06 17:58 < Sfan00> It won't happen any time soon tough
2008-02-06 17:58 < mavhc> you mean when wp moves to an island?
2008-02-06 17:58 < Sfan00> *though
2008-02-06 17:59 < Sfan00> mavhc: Wikimedia Buys Sealand ?
2008-02-06 17:59 < Sfan00> ROFL
2008-02-06 17:59 < mavhc> still, p2phttp is better long term
2008-02-06 18:00 < mavhc> "Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather"
2008-02-06 18:01 < freshmeat> The principle concern of any government should be the protection of that of its citizens -- nothing more, nothing less.
2008-02-06 18:01 < freshmeat> That's it.
2008-02-06 18:01 < mavhc> protection from what?
2008-02-06 18:01 < freshmeat> mavhc: protection and security
2008-02-06 18:02 < Sfan00> Goverments act t protect thier citzens , that includes protecting them from harm (which could include the tubes)
2008-02-06 18:02 < freshmeat> mavhc: well, crime
2008-02-06 18:02 < freshmeat> ...and international threats to the country, for instance
2008-02-06 18:02 < mavhc> what about protection from ideas?
2008-02-06 18:02 < freshmeat> Sfan00: I still don't understand why ethanasia is illegal. If a person is really suffering for some sort of uncurable illness or something, why should they keep living?
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> ...they can't keep on suffering.
2008-02-06 18:03 < mavhc> suicide used to be illegal
2008-02-06 18:03 < Sfan00> ethunasia == murder
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> mavhc: that's ridiculous
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> Sfan00: well, not really.
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> Sfan00: consented murder, perhaps?
2008-02-06 18:03 < mavhc> freshmeat: not from the point of view of the state
2008-02-06 18:03 < Starnestommy> if you really want to die, kill yourself, don't ask someone else to do it
2008-02-06 18:03 < Sfan00> mavhc: My understanding is that aiding one is STILL illegal in the UK
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> mavhc: in my book, murder is completely different.
2008-02-06 18:03 < freshmeat> mavhc: euthanasia is a completely different ballpark.
2008-02-06 18:04 < freshmeat> mavhc: if a person is truly suffering from an irrecoverable illness, how could they keep on suffering?
2008-02-06 18:04 < Sfan00> Life is not for humans to decide upon
2008-02-06 18:04 < mavhc> state sees suicide as a loss of profit
2008-02-06 18:04 < freshmeat> Sfan00: sure, but if you have someone who is truly suffering from something, and that suffering is unavoidable, how could that person continue on living?
2008-02-06 18:04 < Sfan00> I thought another reason was that it deprived the Soverigns army of a fighting man?
2008-02-06 18:04 < freshmeat> Sfan00: the government should assess these issues.
2008-02-06 18:05 < freshmeat> The government is essentially allowing these people to suffer.
2008-02-06 18:05 < mavhc> how hard is it to kill yourself if you wanted to die?
2008-02-06 18:05 < mavhc> so the government should protect people from suffering?
2008-02-06 18:05 < freshmeat> mavhc: well, I believe that people who intend suicide due to psychological issues should be helped.
2008-02-06 18:05 < freshmeat> ...but what I'm talking about is something else.
2008-02-06 18:06 < freshmeat> Those who intend suicide because of depression need help.
2008-02-06 18:06 < freshmeat> And another thing I find ridiculous is the war on drugs.
2008-02-06 18:06 < Sfan00> LOL
2008-02-06 18:06 < mavhc> who's arming the drugs?
2008-02-06 18:06 < freshmeat> ...why should the government bully people into what they choose to put into their body?
2008-02-06 18:06 < White_Cat> freshmeat yea
2008-02-06 18:06 < Sfan00> Drug barons are armed
2008-02-06 18:06 < mavhc> freshmeat: they're protecting the people
2008-02-06 18:06 < White_Cat> I never seen government employees shooting doctors
2008-02-06 18:06 < Sfan00> Look at Afghanistan or Colombia?
2008-02-06 18:06 < freshmeat> mavhc: not really
2008-02-06 18:07 < freshmeat> mavhc: alcohol isn't illegal
2008-02-06 18:07 < White_Cat> Sfan00 pleas
2008-02-06 18:07 < White_Cat> lets not talk about colombia
2008-02-06 18:07 < freshmeat> ...yet there is a host of issues with alcohol related drinking
2008-02-06 18:07 < White_Cat> It broke up you know
2008-02-06 18:07 < freshmeat> It's bullshit, man
2008-02-06 18:07 < freshmeat> What is alcohol so different than other drugs?
2008-02-06 18:07 < White_Cat> alcohol is illegal in UAE, Iran, Saudi Arabia
2008-02-06 18:07 < White_Cat> and of course Sudan
2008-02-06 18:07 < freshmeat> White_Cat: sure, but that's for religious reasons
2008-02-06 18:08 < White_Cat> freshmeat no not really
2008-02-06 18:08 < mavhc> yes, alcohol and tobacco are only as harmful as cannabis, so we should ban alcohol and tobacco
2008-02-06 18:08 < freshmeat> White_Cat: yes, really
2008-02-06 18:08 < White_Cat> it isnt illegal in Turkey for example
2008-02-06 18:08 < Sfan00> mavhc: the US tried that :)
2008-02-06 18:08 < mavhc> religion is just an excuse
2008-02-06 18:08 < Sfan00> It didn't work
2008-02-06 18:08 < freshmeat> White_Cat: those countries are governed by sharia law
2008-02-06 18:08 < mavhc> turkey is secular
2008-02-06 18:08 < freshmeat> ...sharia law is an islamic law
2008-02-06 18:08 < White_Cat> UAE isnt
2008-02-06 18:08 < White_Cat> they are some sort of a democratic authocracy
2008-02-06 18:08 < freshmeat> mavhc: yes, but it has some extreme elements. Women should be allowed to wear scarves if they wish.
2008-02-06 18:08 < Sfan00> White_cat: You would agree UAE is Islamic though?
2008-02-06 18:08 < White_Cat> Sfan00 no
2008-02-06 18:09 < mavhc> freshmeat: scarve wearing is a gateway drug
2008-02-06 18:09 < freshmeat> mavhc: I find it appaling why the Turkish government is banning women's rights to wear scarves at universitiy.
2008-02-06 18:09 < White_Cat> UAE is perfectly democratic if you are living there as a non-muslim
2008-02-06 18:09 < freshmeat> ...a person should have the right to dress as they wish.
2008-02-06 18:09 < White_Cat> now if you are a muslim well.. they you are f***ed
2008-02-06 18:09 < Sfan00> Oh really?
2008-02-06 18:09 < mavhc> and if you wish to dress naked?
2008-02-06 18:09 < freshmeat> Remember, guys -- this is comming for an atheist.
2008-02-06 18:09 < freshmeat> mavhc: that's not dressed.
2008-02-06 18:09 < freshmeat> ...that's being naked.
2008-02-06 18:09 < LordAnubis> White_Cat, not really, you're not allowed to drink unless ur confined to the hotel ur staying in. in the UAE.
2008-02-06 18:09 < White_Cat> freshmeat it isnt about simple wearing
2008-02-06 18:09 < White_Cat> LordAnubis ues
2008-02-06 18:09 < mavhc> it's dressing tending to 0
2008-02-06 18:09 < White_Cat> *yes
2008-02-06 18:09 < Sfan00> It's about a lot of things
2008-02-06 18:10 < White_Cat> freshmeat its men forcing women to wear the headscraves thing
2008-02-06 18:10 < freshmeat> White_Cat: well, you can't bully people into not wearing a particular item of clothing.
2008-02-06 18:10 < LordAnubis> White_Cat, not really. also, did they not arrest a european couple kissing on the street a few months back ?
2008-02-06 18:10 < freshmeat> It's ridiculous, man.
2008-02-06 18:10 < White_Cat> its like the nazi swastica
2008-02-06 18:10 < White_Cat> freshmeat nazism/fascism is ridiclous yes
2008-02-06 18:10 < freshmeat> White_Cat: again, back to my original point, banning the wearing of scarves has nothing to do with the protection and security of citizens.
2008-02-06 18:10 < Sfan00> Doesn't it?
2008-02-06 18:10 < freshmeat> No, it doesn't.
2008-02-06 18:11 < freshmeat> Why would it?
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> freshmeat it isnt over the issue of scarves
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> thats the plot
2008-02-06 18:11 < freshmeat> Sfan00: who is the criminal here?
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> the real story is behind that
2008-02-06 18:11 < freshmeat> Come on, guys -- this is silly.
2008-02-06 18:11 < Sfan00> There's a battle between conservatives and moderates in Turkey?
2008-02-06 18:11 < freshmeat> ...this is autocratic bullying
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> the idea is if headscarves are allowed the country will no longer be secular
2008-02-06 18:11 < LordAnubis> freshmeat, i think scarves should be banned in public establishment. they can wear it at home or on the street.
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> or so is the fear
2008-02-06 18:11 < Sfan00> Would you rather the unrgeulated extremists forced mob view?
2008-02-06 18:11 < White_Cat> and the fear isnt unfounded
2008-02-06 18:12 < freshmeat> Sfan00: sure -- I applaud Turkey's secularist stance, but this is taking it too far. A woman should have to right dress as she wishes.
2008-02-06 18:12 < mavhc> when you vote me as world president I will let people live how they want, and divide the earth into sections proportional to how people want to live
2008-02-06 18:12 < freshmeat> And I'm being really serious here.
2008-02-06 18:12 < White_Cat> freshmeat she is not restricted
2008-02-06 18:12 < White_Cat> in any way
2008-02-06 18:12 < mavhc> rules are: don't attack other groups, and everyone must be free to choose which zone to live in
2008-02-06 18:12 < freshmeat> ...I really see nothing wrong with being nude also. Nudity doesn't always have to be about sex.
2008-02-06 18:12 < Sfan00> Would you have that they are bullied into havibng choice taken away by extremists?
2008-02-06 18:12 < LordAnubis> freshmeat, in the UK, they dont allow children at school from putting a "hoodie" on. for the same reason, scarves should be banned.
2008-02-06 18:12 < Sfan00> freshmeat: Erm
2008-02-06 18:13 < freshmeat> White_Cat: sure -- the wearing of scarves will be banned in some universities
2008-02-06 18:13 < freshmeat> Sfan00: well, not 100% naked.
2008-02-06 18:13 < mavhc> freshmeat: nudity is only about sex if you're hot