freenode #wikipedia

2008-02-06 11:11 < Sfan00> !chanop
2008-02-06 11:11 < Dp67> age really has nothing to do with it.. I'm over 30 and still think it's a bit off.. But thats just me.. That being said time for smoke break..
2008-02-06 11:11 < Sfan00> Sex should be a consenual relationship based on mutual consent
2008-02-06 11:12 < Sfan00> SM is not always based on that
2008-02-06 11:12 < justlee> neither is the missionary position
2008-02-06 11:12 < NotACow> Sfan00: and your expertise on this issue comes fom ......
2008-02-06 11:12 < justlee> sm can be a part of a mutual consensual relationship
2008-02-06 11:12 < Sfan00> ROFL
2008-02-06 11:12 < Sfan00> NotACow: I've read some books on related issues
2008-02-06 11:13 < NotACow> OOH! HE READ A BOOK! ON A "RELATED ISSUE"! HE MUST BE AN EXPERT!
2008-02-06 11:13 * NotACow engages cognitive idiot filters
2008-02-06 11:13 < justlee> Well, having been with a mutually consenting partner for over 20 years now, I think I know more of what I speak.
2008-02-06 11:13 < Sfan00> Once SM is treated from a physciatric perspective, it can be better understood
2008-02-06 11:14 < Sfan00> and it's 'harm' factor more accuratly assesed
2008-02-06 11:14 < justlee> Sfan00: and I tell you, unless it interferes with having a normal life, it is not considered disordered
2008-02-06 11:14 < Sfan00> Of course the way SM people are exploited by commerce would really get me going on a rant
2008-02-06 11:15 < justlee> What do you think, that all sm is something like the story of O made real?
2008-02-06 11:15 < Sfan00> Of course not :)
2008-02-06 11:15 < Sfan00> But you'd have to have a fairly warped mind to be into it in the first place
2008-02-06 11:16 < justlee> so you think just because people enjoy tying each other up to have sex, they need psychiatric treatment?
2008-02-06 11:16 < Sfan00> In some extreme cases they might
2008-02-06 11:16 < NotACow> "This freaks me out, therefore it must be bad."
2008-02-06 11:16 < Sfan00> If as someone sated earlier it affects thier normal lives adversely
2008-02-06 11:16 < justlee> in some extreme cases, cake baking might be a cause for treatment
2008-02-06 11:17 < Sfan00> Indeed
2008-02-06 11:17 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-06 11:17 < Sfan00> NotACow: I am reasonably open minded
2008-02-06 11:17 < justlee> you have done nothing to convince me that sm is disordered by its very nature
2008-02-06 11:17 < Sfan00> I never said SM was disorderd...
2008-02-06 11:17 < Sfan00> Only that it was possibly un-natural
2008-02-06 11:18 < justlee> un-natural? like make up?
2008-02-06 11:18 < Sfan00> Makeup isn't anwhwere in the same leauge
2008-02-06 11:18 < Sfan00> Some animal cultures use make up
2008-02-06 11:18 < justlee> no, it is far worse
2008-02-06 11:18 < Sfan00> or forms of plumage displa
2008-02-06 11:18 < Sfan00> *display
2008-02-06 11:19 < Sfan00> Yet no animal species willingly lets a member of a species willingly inflict pain for pleasure
2008-02-06 11:19 < justlee> wait, because some animals do something, it is natual for humans?
2008-02-06 11:19 < Sfan00> No
2008-02-06 11:19 < Demi> what kind of cockamamy statement is that?
2008-02-06 11:20 < Demi> backward-pointing spines scraping against a cat's vagina not painful enough for you?
2008-02-06 11:20 < justlee> Sfan00: you really believe that? you have looked at all animal behavior?
2008-02-06 11:20 < Sfan00> No
2008-02-06 11:20 < Demi> copulatory slashing in sharks? not painful?
2008-02-06 11:20 < Sfan00> ?
2008-02-06 11:20 < Sfan00> Is that willingly inflicted on the part of the couple?
2008-02-06 11:20 < Sfan00> Or is it a side effect
2008-02-06 11:20 < Demi> where do you get something like "Yet no animal species willingly lets a member of a species willingly inflict pain for pleasure" ?
2008-02-06 11:21 < Sfan00> Demi: You don't see cats going out to get scratched for example
2008-02-06 11:21 < Sfan00> You don't see dogs that go out to get attacked
2008-02-06 11:21 < justlee> You don't?
2008-02-06 11:22 < justlee> I think I have better things to do
2008-02-06 11:22 < Sfan00> justlee: {{fact}}
2008-02-06 11:22 < Demi> Sfan00 - i don't really know what you mean by any of that, and in any case, i'll point out that human beings are animals, and what they do is natural.
2008-02-06 11:22 < Sfan00> Plumage displays and make up serve a useufl function in attracting a mate
2008-02-06 11:23 < Sfan00> whereas as 'pain' seeking doesn't always have a biological function
2008-02-06 11:23 < Dp67> this conversation is going to go nowhere
2008-02-06 11:23 < Sfan00> Demi: I am however open to a specfic citation that animal (ie non human species) engage in sexual pain seekinh
2008-02-06 11:23 < Sfan00> *seeking
2008-02-06 11:24 < Demi> Sfan00 - i don't think it's a meaningful question
2008-02-06 11:25 < Demi> but in any case i've given you two examples of "sexual" behavior that involve "pain"
2008-02-06 11:25 < Sfan00> SM as it does not serve a bilogical function, must be an environmental consturction by humans
2008-02-06 11:25 < Demi> i suspect, however, since it doesn't fit with whatever schoolmarmish point you want to make, you'll ignore them or explain them away
2008-02-06 11:25 < Sfan00> Demi: Yes and I asked if these were 'willingy' inflicted or a side effect of the copulative process?
2008-02-06 11:26 < Sfan00> Fell free to explain anyway
2008-02-06 11:26 < Demi> Sfan00 - i don't know what you mean by that, but i suspect you mean "whatever supports my point"
2008-02-06 11:26 < bumm13> like most other crap he verbalizes here ;p
2008-02-06 11:27 < Sfan00> bumm13: So I am not entitlted to have opinoins?
2008-02-06 11:28 < NotACow> you are entitled to your opinion
2008-02-06 11:28 < Sfan00> Icidentaly [[Jane's bonds]] does not exist as an enwiki entry
2008-02-06 11:28 < Demi> in a larger sense, identifying behaviors as "unnatural" is meaningless, because human beings are animals, and are natural, and the things they do are likewise natural.
2008-02-06 11:28 < NotACow> however, if you have and express stupid opinions, other people may consider you dumb.
2008-02-06 11:28 < Sfan00> True
2008-02-06 11:28 < Sfan00> Demi: OK
2008-02-06 11:29 < Sfan00> But how is a something like SM natural, when it doesn't further a biological, social or environmental objective?
2008-02-06 11:29 < NotACow> Sfan00: are you labour or conservative?
2008-02-06 11:29 < Sfan00> Sfan00: I voted Lib Dem at the last election in the UK
2008-02-06 11:30 < Demi> what "objectives"? biology doesn't have "objectives" except for local ones
2008-02-06 11:30 < bumm13> my problem isn't the expression of stupid opinions, it's the never-ending of such expressions without any apparent desire to possibly change a flawed viewpoint
2008-02-06 11:30 < Sfan00> and am by no means 'conservative' on all isssues
2008-02-06 11:30 < Sfan00> Demi: OK, maybe I need to chill a bit
2008-02-06 11:30 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-06 11:31 < Sfan00> Demi: Species propogation, species control
2008-02-06 11:31 < NotACow> bumm13: how conclusive of you to assume that his viewpoint is flawed. :)
2008-02-06 11:31 < White_Cat> mmm
2008-02-06 11:31 * White_Cat traps Demi in a wikiball
2008-02-06 11:31 < White_Cat> wikimon specimen 747
2008-02-06 11:31 < bumm13> sometimes these things stem from hopeless illogic ;p
2008-02-06 11:31 * White_Cat experiments on it violently
2008-02-06 11:31 < Sfan00> Plumage displays (i.e makeup) further a bilogical objective - in that they help attract (or repel) potential mates
2008-02-06 11:32 * Demi mimes consternation
2008-02-06 11:32 < White_Cat> makeup to repel mates
2008-02-06 11:32 < Sfan00> Yes
2008-02-06 11:32 < Dp67> it could happen
2008-02-06 11:32 * White_Cat paints Sfan00 black
2008-02-06 11:32 < White_Cat> well
2008-02-06 11:32 < Dp67> If you wear makeup like the broad in the Drew Carrey show.. lol
2008-02-06 11:32 < Sfan00> You get females making theselves look ugly to reple unwanted attention
2008-02-06 11:33 < White_Cat> in islamic countries women are forced to wear the islamic turban so as not to atract males
2008-02-06 11:33 < White_Cat> thats the general logic
2008-02-06 11:33 < Sfan00> Whit Cat: You mean a Hijab?
2008-02-06 11:33 < Sfan00> (If I've spelt that correctly)
2008-02-06 11:34 < Demi> how does SM in appropriate contexts not help to attract or repel a mate? (to boil it down to something overly simplistic) how is the SM community not serving a social function?
2008-02-06 11:34 < Demi> a bowling league does these things, too. are you going to peg bowling leagues as unnatural, now?
2008-02-06 11:35 < Demi> it's a lot clearer that "no other animal engages in bowling leagues" than it is for S&M after all
2008-02-06 11:36 < Dp67> monkeys fling their poop..lol
2008-02-06 11:37 < Sfan00> Hmm
2008-02-06 11:37 < bumm13> (I also am tempted to see this kind of "extreme illogic" as possible trolling, but I digress)
2008-02-06 11:37 < Sfan00> Dp67: You are stating to see something :)
2008-02-06 11:37 < Sfan00> Demi: Don't bowling leaguse serve a social function?
2008-02-06 11:37 < Sfan00> bumm13: Busted :(
2008-02-06 11:38 < Dp67> not really, I'm just trying to change the subject with humor because I see the argument going nowhere..
2008-02-06 11:38 < Sfan00> Demi: I can see your argument :)
2008-02-06 11:38 < Sfan00> I still don't see SM behaviour occuring in other species...
2008-02-06 11:39 < Sfan00> (But no one though homosexuality existed until the Gay Swan)
2008-02-06 11:39 < Demi> i think it was pretty clear that homosexuality existed
2008-02-06 11:40 < Demi> because of all the homosexuals, you know?
2008-02-06 11:40 < Sfan00> In non human species Demi
2008-02-06 11:40 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-06 11:41 < Sfan00> I am now intrigued...
2008-02-06 11:41 < Sfan00> Are there animal species that have SM in thier societies and cultures?
2008-02-06 11:42 < Sfan00> Dp67: mentioned something about monkeys and poop....
2008-02-06 11:42 < Sfan00> Anyway on something else entirly
2008-02-06 11:43 < Dp67> It is also noted that primates are the only known animal to have sex for recreation..
2008-02-06 11:43 < Sfan00> ??
2008-02-06 11:43 < Sfan00> What about cannine and felines?
2008-02-06 11:43 < Dp67> I learned that on The Animal Planet.. lol
2008-02-06 11:44 < Sfan00> When was the program made?
2008-02-06 11:44 < Dp67> All other animals are driven by nature.. ie the smell of a female in heat
2008-02-06 11:45 < Sfan00> So you mean the randy old tomcat can't help it?
2008-02-06 11:46 < Dp67> that is correct.. for the same reason in which male dogs hump eachother (or your leg) just because they smell a female in heat.
2008-02-06 11:47 < justlee> or a male dog tries to have sex with a male cat
2008-02-06 11:47 < Sfan00> Demi: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&hs=hPn&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=masochistic+behaviour++in+animal+species&spell=1
2008-02-06 11:47 < Demi> i stopped talking about this a while ago
2008-02-06 11:47 < Sfan00> I am prepared to reconisder my viewpoint given the first two links
2008-02-06 11:48 < Sfan00> OK no worries
2008-02-06 11:48 < Sfan00> :)
2008-02-06 11:48 < Sfan00> And now for something completly different
2008-02-06 11:49 < Sfan00> Anyone willing to assist with the Wikinews Obituary list
2008-02-06 11:49 < Sfan00> ?
2008-02-06 11:50 < Dp67> AM I in it?
2008-02-06 11:50 < Sfan00> Are you notable?
2008-02-06 11:51 < Dp67> I read the obits in the paper all the time hoping my name will turn up.. lol
2008-02-06 11:51 < Sfan00> LOL
2008-02-06 11:54 < E_Wing> Hi guys
2008-02-06 11:54 < Snowolf> hi E_Wing
2008-02-06 11:54 < E_Wing> Is reverting a blanked userpage can be considered vandalism
2008-02-06 11:55 < Snowolf> E_Wing: blanked by who?
2008-02-06 11:55 < E_Wing> especially if that userpage has warnings on it?
2008-02-06 11:55 < Snowolf> E_Wing: A userpage with warnings?
2008-02-06 11:55 < E_Wing> @Snowolf: by the user itself
2008-02-06 11:55 < Snowolf> you sure? not a talk page?
2008-02-06 11:55 < E_Wing> oops, sorry
2008-02-06 11:55 < E_Wing> I mean a user talkpage
2008-02-06 11:55 < Dp67> if its the users own page its their own business
2008-02-06 11:56 < Dp67> there are no ruke to prohibit it
2008-02-06 11:56 < Snowolf> users (not IPs) can freely blank their talk page
2008-02-06 11:56 < Snowolf> warnings or not
2008-02-06 11:56 < Snowolf> (blocks may be a different thing)
2008-02-06 11:57 < E_Wing> So that means any unregistered users cannot blank their respective talkpage with warnings?
2008-02-06 11:57 < Snowolf> correct
2008-02-06 11:57 < Snowolf> but do not post warning for that, just tell them they can't
2008-02-06 11:57 < Dp67> dont get into a 3rr over it.. lol
2008-02-06 11:58 < E_Wing> So that means I can ignore this? http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:E_Wing&redirect=no#Vandalism_3
2008-02-06 11:59 < Snowolf> E_Wing: yes
2008-02-06 11:59 < E_Wing> Phew
2008-02-06 11:59 < E_Wing> thanks guys
2008-02-06 11:59 < Snowolf> you're welcome
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> ARG
2008-02-06 12:00 < Dp67> considering the user who left the warning is an annon i wouldnt bother
2008-02-06 12:00 < Snowolf> White_Cat: what's happining?
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> just needed to yell
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> Sfan00 "Hijab" or not I dono
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> its the head wear
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> turban
2008-02-06 12:00 < White_Cat> whatever it is
2008-02-06 12:00 < E_Wing> Anyway, its already 1am here in the Philippines...
2008-02-06 12:01 < E_Wing> I think I have to log out soon enough
2008-02-06 12:01 < Dp67> tootles
2008-02-06 12:02 < E_Wing> And I have to atleast finish that GFF page
2008-02-06 12:20 < Zach> hm, this guy thinks its funny to vandalise this page, maybe i should say that libel is no laughing matter?
2008-02-06 12:25 < NotACow> moo
2008-02-06 12:26 < Gambit> woof
2008-02-06 12:26 < Demi> web sites with membership should never have you navigate to a second page to enter login information
2008-02-06 12:27 < placebo_effect> is that a big problem?
2008-02-06 12:27 < NotACow> Demi: ideally they should ask you for your username and password on SEPARATE PAGES
2008-02-06 12:27 < placebo_effect> i never have to naviagte to it
2008-02-06 12:27 < NotACow> Demi: for maximum annoyance value
2008-02-06 12:28 < Demi> i'm talking about netflix
2008-02-06 12:40 < kenlyric> wtb mpg4 file format with multiple audio streams
2008-02-06 13:00 < Sfan00> Zach: Which page?
2008-02-06 13:00 < Zach> hm? [[Bill McSomething (referee)]]
2008-02-06 13:00 < Zach> hang on
2008-02-06 13:01 < Zach> [[Bill McCleary (referee)]]
2008-02-06 13:01 < Sfan00> Zach: Yeah, you might mention that libel costs big time
2008-02-06 13:01 < Sfan00> Especially if they are UK based :)
2008-02-06 13:01 < Sfan00> <evil grin>
2008-02-06 13:02 < Zach> McCreary actually
2008-02-06 13:02 < Sfan00> OK
2008-02-06 13:02 < Zach> the D.C. hockey fanatics are looking for vengence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZueO0M7vVRE
2008-02-06 13:04 < Ceiling_Cat> QUICK
2008-02-06 13:04 < White_Cat> Bill McCain
2008-02-06 13:04 < Ceiling_Cat> I nee dthe list of talk.origins arguments
2008-02-06 13:04 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat Hayaku?
2008-02-06 13:04 < Ceiling_Cat> the long, long one
2008-02-06 13:04 < White_Cat> I dont even know what it is
2008-02-06 13:04 < NotACow> DEATH TO ARGUMENTS
2008-02-06 13:12 * White_Cat hugs Comets
2008-02-06 13:12 < White_Cat> Death to all infidels!
2008-02-06 13:12 * White_Cat kills an infidel
2008-02-06 13:13 * Comets hugs White_Cat :DD
2008-02-06 13:14 < White_Cat> The infidel you have dialed is unavailable, mobile infidel may have been executed by inquzators or has been taken care of by the direct wrath of God for his or her herecy.
2008-02-06 13:15 < Tony_Sidaway> Ceiling_Cat: you mean their arguments for evolution or creationism, or their list of interminable disagreements? I think both are on talkorigins.org.
2008-02-06 13:16 < White_Cat> Tony_Sidaway to the resque
2008-02-06 13:17 < Tony_Sidaway> http://talkorigins.org/origins/outline.html
2008-02-06 13:20 < White_Cat> Tony_Sidaway after adequately playing medeval 2 I come to a colorful comparasion for the episode and character thing :)
2008-02-06 13:48 < StayTuned> what's the status on Memphis Tennessee?
2008-02-06 13:48 < StayTuned> I'm not concerned about death tolls
2008-02-06 13:49 < StayTuned> I'd like to pitch in and help if there is any way from NY to assist in IRC
2008-02-06 13:49 < StayTuned> good afternoon qbjunkie
2008-02-06 13:51 * StayTuned has opened #memphis for discussion of ways to help in IRC.
2008-02-06 13:53 < StayTuned> changed channel topic to donate to redcross.org people of TN in need now
2008-02-06 13:54 < NotACow> did memphis finally fall into the river?
2008-02-06 13:54 < Snowolf> NotACow: seems that a tornato hitted them
2008-02-06 13:55 < StayTuned> A lot of people lost their lives this morning there
2008-02-06 13:55 < NotACow> Snowolf: tornados happen
2008-02-06 13:55 < NotACow> i grew up in tornado alley
2008-02-06 13:56 < StayTuned> http://voanews.com/english/2008-02-06-voa25.cfm
2008-02-06 13:56 * Snowolf is secure in Italy
2008-02-06 13:57 < StayTuned> http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease/0,1077,0_314_7499,00.html
2008-02-06 13:57 < NotACow> i'll be honest -- it sounded like a relatively small tornado event
2008-02-06 13:59 < NotACow> 23 dead, 100 injured
2008-02-06 13:59 < NotACow> that's relatively minor as tornadoes go
2008-02-06 14:00 < Demi> at the bottom it implies that the american red cross helps people prevent tornadoes
2008-02-06 14:00 < Mike_H> NotACow: Not for February in the South.
2008-02-06 14:00 < Mike_H> Maybe for May in the Midwest.
2008-02-06 14:01 < Quiznos> hi
2008-02-06 14:01 < StayTuned> the red cross is a legitimate organization that helps people survive and recover from disasters - disease - and death.
2008-02-06 14:01 < NotACow> Mike_H: we had tornados up here last month
2008-02-06 14:01 < NotACow> Demi: wow, the red cross does weather control now?
2008-02-06 14:02 < NotACow> Mike_H: i think four people were killed in wisconsin last month by a tornado
2008-02-06 14:02 < NotACow> Mike_H: global warming, it's all the rage!
2008-02-06 14:02 < StayTuned> Suddenly it doesn't matter because I'm speaking for it. Go ahead - be snide about it. When you end up in Oz yourself - don't come crying to me.
2008-02-06 14:03 < NotACow> dude, it's a tornado. these things happen.
2008-02-06 14:03 < NotACow> yes, go donate if it moves you, whatever
2008-02-06 14:03 < NotACow> but this is part and parcel of living in the midwest.
2008-02-06 14:03 < m_A_y_A_t> Yeah, i can start a tornado just by farting...
2008-02-06 14:03 < NotACow> you get tornadoes every so often.
2008-02-06 14:03 < StayTuned> Yeah - its a flood - these things happen - yeah its a hurricane these things happen - yeah - its gang violence - these things happen - yeah its aids these things happen.
2008-02-06 14:03 < NotACow> when i was three a tornado took the roof off my house
2008-02-06 14:04 < NotACow> when i was nine a tornado missed my schoolbuilding by 25 feet
2008-02-06 14:04 < StayTuned> Silence does not help.
2008-02-06 14:04 < NotACow> when i was 19 a tornado missed my dorm by a half mile
2008-02-06 14:04 < StayTuned> So that means its revenge on the victims time?
2008-02-06 14:04 < NotACow> i once raced a tornado down US 52
2008-02-06 14:04 < NotACow> i didn't know that car could do 90
2008-02-06 14:04 < NotACow> but i was damned if i was going to be in the area when it came across the highway
2008-02-06 14:05 < StayTuned> I'm just saying - I don't agree with letting it slide.
2008-02-06 14:06 < StayTuned> I'm outta here. You can find me with friends right now.
2008-02-06 14:06 < m_A_y_A_t> i have tourettes
2008-02-06 14:06 * NotACow is a bitch
2008-02-06 14:07 < Comets> yrue
2008-02-06 14:07 < Bonita> He's a bitch
2008-02-06 14:07 < Demi> hm, i wasn't trying to be snide
2008-02-06 14:07 < m_A_y_A_t> I agree, you're the channel bitch
2008-02-06 14:07 < m_A_y_A_t> if you were any more bitcher, you would be JohnReaves
2008-02-06 14:07 < Comets> >:(
2008-02-06 14:08 < NotACow> i just don't like the attitude that "i should care a lot about this"
2008-02-06 14:08 < Bonita> like you and your mom?
2008-02-06 14:08 < NotACow> like i'm somehow a bad person because i'm not jumping up to help these people
2008-02-06 14:09 * Comets pets NotACow :)
2008-02-06 14:09 < NotACow> take that sanctimonious attitude and stuff it in your piehole
2008-02-06 14:09 < Bonita> NotACow, need a buttraep?
2008-02-06 14:09 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 14:09 < NotACow> it's a minor disaster that they're already prepared to deal with anyway
2008-02-06 14:10 < NotACow> so go deal with t and move on
2008-02-06 14:10 < Bonita> I'd glady give you one, but before, douche yourself with Comet's piss
2008-02-06 14:10 < Comets> Bonita, hush or you will be next
2008-02-06 14:10 < Comets> wimt, >:(
2008-02-06 14:10 < wimt> Same person
2008-02-06 14:10 < Comets> yeah I know
2008-02-06 14:10 < Supaplex> wow, before I even ask? cool!
2008-02-06 14:11 < Supaplex> ;) hehe jk
2008-02-06 14:12 < Comets> XD
2008-02-06 14:14 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 14:14 < Comets> weren't you K-Lined? O_O
2008-02-06 14:14 < w00t> nah, i use socks :)
2008-02-06 14:14 < w00t> i say good luck staffers :)
2008-02-06 14:14 < Comets> oh
2008-02-06 14:16 < Supaplex> YASP
2008-02-06 14:20 < Comets> Snowolf party pooper :P
2008-02-06 14:22 < WikiHelper> I just had a lag lol
2008-02-06 14:22 < WikiHelper> are socks supposed to be reported to #freenode :?
2008-02-06 14:23 < Comets> WikiHelper, socks? XD
2008-02-06 14:23 < WikiHelper> socks that are supposed to be klined?
2008-02-06 14:23 < Comets> lol when did he join? O_o
2008-02-06 14:23 < Supaplex> what if I want to link to a category, but not make that article I'm linking from be part of that category?
2008-02-06 14:23 < WikiHelper> idk
2008-02-06 14:23 < Comets> WikiHelper, K-lines won't help..w00t is supposedly K-Lined ;)
2008-02-06 14:24 < Snowolf> Supaplex [[:Category:categoryname]]
2008-02-06 14:24 < WikiHelper> [19:11] -->| Armata (n=armata@cpe-66-61-24-40.neo.res.rr.com) has joined #wikipedia
2008-02-06 14:24 < Snowolf> same for images and so on
2008-02-06 14:24 < Supaplex> thanks
2008-02-06 14:24 < WikiHelper> how does the user manage different IP address too?
2008-02-06 14:24 < Snowolf> WikiHelper: no need to report, it has been already spotted in #freenode
2008-02-06 14:24 < wimt> K-lines are no better than bans - they just work for the whole network rather than one channel.
2008-02-06 14:25 < NotACow> DEATH TO ODIOUSNESS
2008-02-06 14:25 < Comets> lolwut?
2008-02-06 14:26 < Supaplex> 9 edits later I did it the hardway. hahaha :p works now.
2008-02-06 14:27 < Gundala> Ask a christian about the bible, he'll reply for free; Ask a jew about the Torah and he'll reply for nothing; ask a Muslim about the Quran and the answer shall be free, ask a Hindi about the Puranas texts and his reply shall cost nothing; but when you ask a Scientologist about the the universe, he'll reply after your check clears.
2008-02-06 14:27 < Appiko> i am w00t
2008-02-06 14:28 < Supaplex> and ask a troll about anything, and you get a dumb answer.
2008-02-06 14:29 < WikiHelper> enough with the excess w00ts
2008-02-06 14:29 < Snowolf> :)
2008-02-06 14:29 < LoLZz> i am w00t
2008-02-06 14:29 < Yetti> no, i am w00t
2008-02-06 14:30 < mr_sensible> ignore the other faggots, i am the real w00t
2008-02-06 14:30 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 14:30 < Comets> damn..
2008-02-06 14:30 < WikiHelper> is still here
2008-02-06 14:30 < WikiHelper> you need to kick him as well ;)
2008-02-06 14:31 * Comets hates multi-tasking :|
2008-02-06 14:31 * Comets is w00t
2008-02-06 14:31 < Comets> ;DD
2008-02-06 14:32 < Xnow-PJ> i am the real w00t
2008-02-06 14:32 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 14:32 < Snowolf> good idea
2008-02-06 14:32 < Comets> wimt, you killed dircbot :
2008-02-06 14:32 < wimt> Comets, hehe
2008-02-06 14:32 < Snowolf> Comets: it's going down all the time
2008-02-06 14:32 < WikiHelper> lol, Snowolf and wimt are opped :O
2008-02-06 14:32 < Comets> :D
2008-02-06 14:33 < Comets> nope
2008-02-06 14:33 < Comets> wimt, redirect to #defocus ;P
2008-02-06 14:34 < Wawa2> I am w00t
2008-02-06 14:34 < AnGeLiQ> I am w00t
2008-02-06 14:35 < Comets> O_O
2008-02-06 14:35 < WikiHelper> next thing you know , the user will do something drastic, like register nicks with nickserv ;)
2008-02-06 14:35 < KLySOITOyRl> I am w00t
2008-02-06 14:35 < Fabexplosive> hello
2008-02-06 14:35 * DXWCyVUMT hugs Snowolf
2008-02-06 14:36 < Snowolf> WikiHelper: he is registering nick at the moment
2008-02-06 14:36 < Comets> wow lagg :S
2008-02-06 14:36 * boyNeh hugs Snowolf
2008-02-06 14:36 < Comets> w00t K-line is not far away
2008-02-06 14:36 < Snowolf> hi Fabexplosive
2008-02-06 14:36 < Supaplex> poor ircds.
2008-02-06 14:36 < WikiHelper> 3 ops now!
2008-02-06 14:36 < WikiHelper> this is CRAZY o.O
2008-02-06 14:36 < Comets> :O
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> then there was 2
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> then there was 1
2008-02-06 14:37 < Supaplex> WikiHelper: you've apparently not seen this efnet thing.
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> *0* :P
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> O_o
2008-02-06 14:37 < WikiHelper> omg!
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> dircbot you are weak :p
2008-02-06 14:37 < WikiHelper> memo spam
2008-02-06 14:37 < Fabexplosive> hey Snowolf
2008-02-06 14:37 < Fabexplosive> Comets: yyy
2008-02-06 14:37 < WikiHelper> arghh!
2008-02-06 14:37 < Comets> fabeyyyyyyy :DD
2008-02-06 14:37 < WikiHelper> I just got a mega memo spam: what should I do o.O
2008-02-06 14:38 < Snowolf> WikiHelper: how many memos?
2008-02-06 14:38 < Comets> WikiHelper, i close CZ
2008-02-06 14:38 < WikiHelper> umm, Memos 4-50
2008-02-06 14:38 < WikiHelper> I think they are all from woot
2008-02-06 14:38 < Comets> simpler with Xchat though
2008-02-06 14:38 < WikiHelper> should I pm them to somebody
2008-02-06 14:38 < Comets> yeah
2008-02-06 14:38 < Snowolf> reported in #freenode
2008-02-06 14:38 < Comets> /msg memoserv del all
2008-02-06 14:38 < Comets> i think
2008-02-06 14:38 < WikiHelper> w00t was here! w00t was here! w00t was here! w00t was here! w00t was here! w00t was here! w00t was here!
2008-02-06 14:39 < WikiHelper> a million times in each memoserv
2008-02-06 14:39 < WikiHelper> I thought I had block on ;O
2008-02-06 14:39 < Comets> not on CZ ;)
2008-02-06 14:39 < WikiHelper> I mean nick settings block
2008-02-06 14:39 < Supaplex> it's pretty easy to nuke them all *meh*
2008-02-06 14:40 < WikiHelper> can I delete a whole load at the same time?
2008-02-06 14:40 < WikiHelper> omg! Now a [19:40] [DCC] Got DCC Chat offer from “MfUEQPOwKRH” (86.129.28.176:1024) [Accept] [Decline].
2008-02-06 14:40 < Snowolf> [1935:42] <Comets> /msg memoserv del all
2008-02-06 14:40 < Comets> Supaplex, are you w00t ?
2008-02-06 14:40 < WikiHelper> a million times
2008-02-06 14:40 < Supaplex> no
2008-02-06 14:40 < WikiHelper> I want some of the memo lol
2008-02-06 14:40 < Comets> yeah i ahd it before..had to close CZ :(
2008-02-06 14:40 * Comets hugs Riana :DD
2008-02-06 14:40 < WikiHelper> argh! I need to put a stop to this
2008-02-06 14:40 < wimt> WikiHelper, don't paste it all in channel
2008-02-06 14:40 < Riana> 'lo Comets
2008-02-06 14:41 < Fabexplosive> hoi wimt
2008-02-06 14:41 < Supaplex> I'm [[User:Supaplex]] on the freeside.biz wiki
2008-02-06 14:41 < wimt> WikiHelper, ignore it and he'll get bored
2008-02-06 14:41 < WikiHelper> lol, don't worry I wont ;)
2008-02-06 14:41 < wimt> Hey Fabexplosive :-)
2008-02-06 14:41 < Comets> ahh
2008-02-06 14:41 < WikiHelper> can I stop this from being sent
2008-02-06 14:41 < Comets> no idea :(
2008-02-06 14:41 * Comets checks
2008-02-06 14:42 < Comets> was about to kick that :p
2008-02-06 14:42 < werdan7> /mode WikiHelper +C
2008-02-06 14:42 < werdan7> try that
2008-02-06 14:43 < Comets> in Global settings>>DCC check DCC Enabled
2008-02-06 14:43 < WikiHelper> I will cancel DCC instead
2008-02-06 14:45 < Fabexplosive> hey FrancoGG
2008-02-06 14:45 < FrancoGG> hey Fabexplosive
2008-02-06 14:46 < Comets> ahh good days :)
2008-02-06 14:57 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Image:El Emulo1.jpg]]
2008-02-06 14:57 < Ceiling_Cat> "The name of the canon is El Emulo and the Latin inscription says "to throw the King's fire""
2008-02-06 14:58 * Ceiling_Cat chuckles
2008-02-06 14:59 < Fabexplosive> oh, an Ceiling_Cat
2008-02-06 14:59 * Ceiling_Cat facehuggles Fabexplosive
2008-02-06 14:59 * Fabexplosive is facehuggled :DD
2008-02-06 15:00 * Fabexplosive reply facehuggle to Ceiling_Cat
2008-02-06 15:01 < Snowolf> hi Phoenix-wiki
2008-02-06 15:01 < Fabexplosive> hey Phoenix-wiki
2008-02-06 15:02 < The359> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wall_cloud_2008.jpg Awesome
2008-02-06 15:02 < Phoenix-wiki> heya Guys :-)
2008-02-06 15:03 < Phoenix-wiki> Munich air crash was 50 years ago today
2008-02-06 15:03 < The359> yeah, that's why it's on In The News ;)
2008-02-06 15:03 < The359> erm
2008-02-06 15:03 < The359> On This Day
2008-02-06 15:04 < Phoenix-wiki> haha
2008-02-06 15:05 < GaryKing> Hi, anyone here use AWB for adding categories to articles? Is there an easy way to do it?
2008-02-06 15:05 < Comets> zomg GaryKing live :P
2008-02-06 15:05 < GaryKing> I mean, to the current article, like in a context menu.
2008-02-06 15:06 < GaryKing> I know there's an option to mass-add categories, but would be nice to have an input box for the present article.
2008-02-06 15:06 < GaryKing> Is there already a feature like this?
2008-02-06 15:06 < Fabexplosive> i'm sooo tired :(
2008-02-06 15:08 < Comets> GaryKing, >> #AutoWikiBrowser
2008-02-06 15:08 * The359 gets his gun
2008-02-06 15:08 < The359> That can be fixed, Fabexplosive
2008-02-06 15:08 < Mike_H> OverlordQ: are you there?
2008-02-06 15:09 < Fabexplosive> The359: hmmm
2008-02-06 15:10 < Fabexplosive> hey Vvivi
2008-02-06 15:11 < Vvivi> hello!
2008-02-06 15:11 < Fabexplosive> hoi Iradigalesc with _ :P
2008-02-06 15:13 < Snowolf> hi Gracenotes
2008-02-06 15:14 < Gracenotes> good day, Snowolf :)
2008-02-06 15:15 < Supaplex> from a template, how do I conditionally hide something if {{{foo}}} isn't set?
2008-02-06 15:18 < Mike_H> My CariDee interview is done :DD
2008-02-06 15:22 < Fabexplosive> goodnight guys
2008-02-06 15:24 < Snowolf> Krimpet: no it's still unusable
2008-02-06 15:24 < The359> vim n' vigor?
2008-02-06 15:25 < Snowolf> 1 week lag on s1 & s3
2008-02-06 15:25 < Krimpet> Snowolf: "Status: up (really!)"? -_-
2008-02-06 15:26 < Gracenotes> can we keep "vim n' vigor" in the topic?
2008-02-06 15:26 * The359 has no clue what it means
2008-02-06 15:26 < Krimpet> it's an idiom :p
2008-02-06 15:27 < Mike_H> The359: it means "energy"
2008-02-06 15:27 < Mike_H> "He has vim and vigor in his step!"
2008-02-06 15:27 < Mike_H> energy/spring/etc.
2008-02-06 15:27 < Gracenotes> Supaplex: {{#if:{{{foo|}}}|displays this if foo exists and is not blank|displays this otherwise}}
2008-02-06 15:28 < The359> wtf is vim?
2008-02-06 15:28 < Snowolf> Krimpet: what about a "up but lagged"?
2008-02-06 15:28 < Gracenotes> Supaplex: to check if foo doesn't exist is a tad more complicated
2008-02-06 15:28 < Krimpet> Snowolf: hmm
2008-02-06 15:28 < Mike_H> The359: does it matter?
2008-02-06 15:29 < Mike_H> you know what it means now
2008-02-06 15:29 < Mike_H> idioms never make sense
2008-02-06 15:29 < The359> yes
2008-02-06 15:29 < Gracenotes> lagging with vim and vigor
2008-02-06 15:29 < Snowolf> :)
2008-02-06 15:29 < Mike_H> The359: well, you'll never get to know
2008-02-06 15:29 < Mike_H> deal.
2008-02-06 15:29 < The359> weak
2008-02-06 15:29 < Mike_H> eh
2008-02-06 15:29 * Mike_H shrugs
2008-02-06 15:30 < Comets> toolserver down for over a week :(
2008-02-06 15:30 * Krimpet got nothin else. ;p
2008-02-06 15:33 < The359> ...Spice Girls?
2008-02-06 15:34 < Krimpet> "febuary"?
2008-02-06 15:34 < Gracenotes> hyphen instead of dash?
2008-02-06 15:34 < Dp67> Winter sucks.. Yesterday it was 45 deg. all the snow melted, now its 30 deg. and snowing.. I hate snow..
2008-02-06 15:35 * Snowolf doesn't
2008-02-06 15:35 < The359> Tough nuggets
2008-02-06 15:36 < Mike_H> that needs to go on bash
2008-02-06 15:37 < Dp67> Its 54 and sunny in Nashville.. I should live there..
2008-02-06 15:37 < Krimpet> 45 is miniskirt n' hoodie weather here...
2008-02-06 15:38 < Mike_H> It's like...what is it here
2008-02-06 15:38 < Mike_H> 77.
2008-02-06 15:38 < Mike_H> A lot cooler than yesterday, it was 87.
2008-02-06 15:39 < Dp67> cold weather does no good for my arthritis
2008-02-06 15:40 < Supaplex> Gracenotes: oh, ok. thanks
2008-02-06 15:40 < Gracenotes> Supaplex: will that work for you -- pretending the parameter doesn't exist if it's blank?
2008-02-06 15:40 < Gracenotes> most WP templates do that, although sometimes the behavior is not desirable
2008-02-06 15:44 < Supaplex> yea, say {{mytemplate}} foo isn't used, so I can just ...|}} right?
2008-02-06 15:46 < Sfan00> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=C6pYE4b8APc - Seems some people are determined to make a point :)
2008-02-06 15:50 < Dp67> funny how you can piss on the bible, make fun of jesus, christianity and judism nobody cares but heaven forbid you dare say anything about muslims or muhamed whats his name..
2008-02-06 15:51 < Gracenotes> Supaplex: the "else" part will automatically be blank if you do {{#if:{{{foo|}}}|then}}
2008-02-06 15:51 < Gracenotes> no need for it to end |}}
2008-02-06 15:51 < Supaplex> k
2008-02-06 15:52 < The359> Please sign petition in info to have it removed
2008-02-06 15:53 < The359> Clearly they don't understand us
2008-02-06 15:53 < Supaplex> I leave vengence to Him.
2008-02-06 15:53 < justlee> hello
2008-02-06 15:54 < justlee> Dp67: lots of people care about when you do that stuff to Christian stuff.
2008-02-06 15:54 < The359> The guy seems to have problems with his spacebar
2008-02-06 15:54 < justlee> Dp67: They protest, but they don't go out and have a war about it.
2008-02-06 15:55 < justlee> not any more
2008-02-06 15:55 < Dp67> Thats why I like the saying, "It's God's job judge Osama Bin Laden, it;s our job to arrange the meeting.." lol
2008-02-06 15:55 < Supaplex> fo sure
2008-02-06 15:56 < Dp67> O wonder what would happen if Christians went on a killing spree because someone published a picture of Jesus.
2008-02-06 15:57 < Gracenotes> I wonder.
2008-02-06 15:58 < justlee> Dp67: there are people claiming to be Christians who kill people who don't meet their standards.
2008-02-06 15:58 < Messedrocker> even though jesus said to love your neighbor as you love yourself
2008-02-06 15:58 < Dp67> Nooobody Expects The Spanish Inquisition... lol
2008-02-06 15:58 < The359> so...jerk them off?
2008-02-06 15:58 < Messedrocker> christianity is a pretty decent religion once you do away with the fairy tales and the misinterpretations of it
2008-02-06 15:59 < White_Cat> Messedrocker I hate myself
2008-02-06 15:59 < White_Cat> Messedrocker really?
2008-02-06 15:59 < Comets> Krimpet, that quote isn't funny ;)
2008-02-06 15:59 * White_Cat crusades Messedrocker a bit with a large Jihad
2008-02-06 15:59 < justlee> Most often when whe have people in America doing things like destroying Churches, it is not because the churches are Christian, but because they belong to certain people
2008-02-06 15:59 < White_Cat> All your churches are belong to pope
2008-02-06 16:00 < justlee> Now Christians do have a history of desecrating other religion's symbols and holy places
2008-02-06 16:00 < Dp67> not all churches are catholic
2008-02-06 16:00 < White_Cat> justlee mere accidents
2008-02-06 16:00 < FoeNyx> weren't they some iconoclast movements in christian history ? like during Reformation ?
2008-02-06 16:00 < White_Cat> the intention wasnt to blow up that hindu house of worship
2008-02-06 16:00 < justlee> which accounts for many, many headless, genital less, and even armless statues
2008-02-06 16:01 < justlee> and yes, some christians did it to other christians
2008-02-06 16:01 < justlee> and some asshole christians do it to pagans today
2008-02-06 16:02 < Supaplex> it all goes back to people
2008-02-06 16:02 < ancjr> my cat eating small animal
2008-02-06 16:02 < FoeNyx> ancjr> cats are evil !
2008-02-06 16:02 < FoeNyx> ancjr> reducing biodiversity :p ?
2008-02-06 16:03 < Dp67> I don't pledge alligence to any 'religion' or church. I belive in God and Jesus, but don't go to church. For that very reason..
2008-02-06 16:04 * Ceiling_Cat huggles FoeNyx
2008-02-06 16:04 < justlee> Dp67: I have been insulted because I even refuse to commit to that much.
2008-02-06 16:04 < Sfan00> Dp67: Erm, Anti-Abortion fanatics?
2008-02-06 16:04 < Dp67> Truth is most do gooder church goers are just as fucked up that I am only they don't have the guts to admit it.. lol
2008-02-06 16:05 < FoeNyx> Ceiling_Cat> :) evil huggling cat ?
2008-02-06 16:05 < gwern> 'Now that I've watched Barak Obama debate, and beheld this modern-day Martin Luther King Jr., this Kennedy-meets-Lincoln-by-way-of-John-The-Baptist, along with his co-star in this miserable prime time drama, Hillary Clinton, I gots ta ask: how can you people stand it? Forget about how either of those two could inspire emotions like love and hope and hatred-just physically, how can you watch it without wanting to kick something? That ...
2008-02-06 16:05 < gwern> ... debate was the most boring television production since The Waltons. The best that could be said about the hour-plus I wasted watching that debate is that it made me feel less guilty about all the time I waste downloading porn.'
2008-02-06 16:05 < Supaplex> Gracenotes: either one breaks on new lines. the whole {{#if: ... }} has to be on one line?
2008-02-06 16:06 < Gracenotes> Supaplex: usually... it depends
2008-02-06 16:06 < Supaplex> I guess I could hack each line with {{#if ... }}. boy is this going to get uglier.
2008-02-06 16:07 < Gracenotes> read the documentation :)
2008-02-06 16:07 < gwern> 'As for Hillary, she'd gain nothing by hiding her fangs, and I'd doubt she wants to. Hillary Clinton became the most despised woman in American history simply for trying to help millions of Americans live healthier, longer lives. She tried to give the country free health care 15 years ago, and the suckers will never, ever forgive her for it.'
2008-02-06 16:08 < Supaplex> I don't know where #if is documented, but I'll keep looking.
2008-02-06 16:08 < Sfan00> Whats wrong in socalised healthcare?
2008-02-06 16:08 < Sfan00> I mean it works in Canada doesn't it?
2008-02-06 16:09 < justlee> not always
2008-02-06 16:09 < Dp67> No it doesnt.. Thats why Canadians and others from around the world come to the US for health care
2008-02-06 16:09 < gwern> 'If there was anything truly sinister about last night's debate, it was the spectacle of a nation patting itself on the back for allegedly overcoming its racism and its sexism. The ultimate sentimental fantasy in a post-U2 world come true: "Isn't it incredible that we have a black man and a woman facing off against each other? We've come so far! We're such a great generation!" It's the Hollywood moment for America, and they won't ...
2008-02-06 16:09 < gwern> ... shuttup about it as they wipe their inspired eyes and pat themselves on their backs for the progress they've made.'
2008-02-06 16:09 < gwern> Sfan00: sure but the canadians are a bunch of enslaved crypto-commies
2008-02-06 16:09 < Supaplex> if socalised healtcare believes a tooth extraction is covered when a root canal is best for the paitent, then to heck with that
2008-02-06 16:09 < White_Cat> nothing works in canada
2008-02-06 16:09 < justlee> I talk to people in Canada with neurofibromatosis, and they sometimes have to wait ridiculously long to get an MRI.
2008-02-06 16:10 < ancjr> self congratulation is a poor measure of accomplishment
2008-02-06 16:10 < justlee> that can really make a difference when you are looking at something that could be cancer
2008-02-06 16:10 < White_Cat> I really think health care is a monster best served raw
2008-02-06 16:10 < White_Cat> I like millitary hospitals
2008-02-06 16:10 < White_Cat> orderly, cheap, sane
2008-02-06 16:10 < Sfan00> Not in the US
2008-02-06 16:10 < Sfan00> :(
2008-02-06 16:11 < White_Cat> "Millitary hospitals"
2008-02-06 16:11 < White_Cat> not Civilian
2008-02-06 16:11 < Sfan00> And the UK scrapped milatar hopsitals years ago
2008-02-06 16:11 < Sfan00> :(
2008-02-06 16:11 < White_Cat> Sfan00 no they havent
2008-02-06 16:11 < Dp67> In socialized medicine you could have a curable desease if its caught in time. But before you can get the attention you need its too late.. its now incurable
2008-02-06 16:11 < gwern> Dp67: and tons of americans go to canada and other places for health care. your point?
2008-02-06 16:11 < gwern> White_Cat: cheap?
2008-02-06 16:11 < Sfan00> Why was there a big fuss about wounded soilder sbeing shunted onto the NHS?
2008-02-06 16:11 < White_Cat> USians going to Iraq for healthcare
2008-02-06 16:12 < White_Cat> now there is an idea
2008-02-06 16:12 < Sfan00> Michal Moore alreayd did that (albiet to Cuba)
2008-02-06 16:12 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-02-06 16:12 < gwern> White_Cat: how do you get to use military hospitals?
2008-02-06 16:12 < White_Cat> oopos
2008-02-06 16:12 < White_Cat> nevermind that :)
2008-02-06 16:12 < Dp67> Micheal Moore needs about 700 tons of liposuction work.. lol
2008-02-06 16:13 < Sfan00> That said the NHS is not perfect
2008-02-06 16:13 < justlee> why the hell do you think that?
2008-02-06 16:13 < Sfan00> and needs far more invetment than most governments and people realise
2008-02-06 16:13 < justlee> what, someone doesn't meet your ideal so they need to be cut up?
2008-02-06 16:13 < justlee> that is sick
2008-02-06 16:14 < Sfan00> The porblem is that the last Conservative Govt went short term and thus wrecked the NHS
2008-02-06 16:14 < Dp67> US Healthcare isn't perfect. But NAtionalized or Socialist medicine is not the answer.
2008-02-06 16:14 < Sfan00> DP67: I would disagree
2008-02-06 16:14 < Sfan00> Medcine should be paid for out of tax dollars
2008-02-06 16:14 < Sfan00> Or at the very least Govt run 'Socail insurance' on workers
2008-02-06 16:15 < Dp67> well, you live there, I live here.
2008-02-06 16:15 < ancjr> i think we should also have socialized televisions and stereos
2008-02-06 16:15 < Sfan00> TV is not a right
2008-02-06 16:15 < Sfan00> Life is
2008-02-06 16:15 < ancjr> being that some people can't afford the nicer ones
2008-02-06 16:15 < gwern> anyone remember giuliani saying he'd be dead of prostate cancer if he was treated in the UK? good times, good times...
2008-02-06 16:15 < gwern> justlee: I think Moore qualifies as morbidly obese
2008-02-06 16:15 < ancjr> neither is healthcare
2008-02-06 16:15 < justlee> so what?
2008-02-06 16:15 < gwern> the morbid part in the phrase doesn't come from fat people's kind of humor, btw
2008-02-06 16:15 < gwern> you ask me, the model should be the Netherlands.
2008-02-06 16:15 < gwern> now there's a health system that works!
2008-02-06 16:16 < Sfan00> What model do they use?
2008-02-06 16:16 < White_Cat> giuliani wouldnt make it to the UK
2008-02-06 16:16 < Sfan00> 'Social Insurance'?