freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-16 12:58 < Schroeder> R.I.P. Harvey Wingo
2008-01-16 12:59 < LuciferTiger> you might just have a first hand admin brutality experience thats what im saying
2008-01-16 12:59 < LuciferTiger> pardon me Schroeder but who was harvey wingo?
2008-01-16 12:59 < Schroeder> the awesomest drum corps and marching band judge ever
2008-01-16 12:59 < Rinn> A guy with "win" and "go" in his last name.
2008-01-16 12:59 < Schroeder> his tapes were fucking hilarious
2008-01-16 13:01 < LuciferTiger> ok
2008-01-16 13:01 < LuciferTiger> thats bad. funny ppl shouldnt die.
2008-01-16 13:03 < Guest92> *yawn*
2008-01-16 13:04 < LuciferTiger> is there a pattern to your nick guest?
2008-01-16 13:04 < Guest92> eh me? I just has ?? at the end so it gives it a number
2008-01-16 13:04 < Guest92> see: <param name='alternatenick' value='Guest??'>
2008-01-16 13:05 < LuciferTiger> y dont u register one
2008-01-16 13:05 < LuciferTiger> its handy
2008-01-16 13:06 < Guest92> I can change it from guest if I want, hold on a sec
2008-01-16 13:06 * NotACow sighs
2008-01-16 13:07 < tawker> NotACow: needs to moo
2008-01-16 13:07 < tawker> not sigh
2008-01-16 13:07 < name_name> I used to be guest92
2008-01-16 13:07 < name_name> see
2008-01-16 13:07 < name_name> ^__^
2008-01-16 13:09 < NotACow> tawker: moo
2008-01-16 13:09 < Schroeder> speaking of penises
2008-01-16 13:09 < name_name> >.< wtf?
2008-01-16 13:09 < Schroeder> tomorrow is National Cowper's Fluid Day
2008-01-16 13:09 < Demi> TheWeasel - there's an Area Man just today
2008-01-16 13:09 < IceKarma> Schroeder, ... ahahahahahaha
2008-01-16 13:10 * NotACow wonders how "If you're publishing logs on an ongoing basis, your channel topic should reflect that fact" got converted into "no public logging allowed"
2008-01-16 13:10 < Schroeder> not that it's enforceable anyway
2008-01-16 13:10 < Schroeder> someone would have to discover the logs
2008-01-16 13:10 < Schroeder> and figure out who's posting them
2008-01-16 13:11 < name_name> lol, I might be taking screencaps every 3 seconds for all you know
2008-01-16 13:11 < Schroeder> and it's incredibly easy to make doing that impossible
2008-01-16 13:11 < NotACow> well, for me it's more the cowardice in the channel owners for imposing that rule, and then lying about the rule being mandated by freenode when it's not
2008-01-16 13:11 < Schroeder> just set up a geocities site or someshit
2008-01-16 13:12 < NotACow> then again, as far as i can tell i was fired from the channel management for saying that i didn't care if people logged
2008-01-16 13:12 < name_name> more importantly what's the point in logging the channel any way?
2008-01-16 13:12 < teglin> NotACow, what exactly is the reasoning behind not allowing logging
2008-01-16 13:13 < teglin> why should people be allowed to maintain public stats
2008-01-16 13:13 < teglin> shouldnt?
2008-01-16 13:13 < name_name> 42 is the answer
2008-01-16 13:13 < Schroeder> name_name: a bunch of bullshit goes on here regarding Wikipedia itself that should be done in public
2008-01-16 13:14 < name_name> ok
2008-01-16 13:14 < NotACow> teglin: i have no idea.
2008-01-16 13:14 < NotACow> teglin: i suggest you direct that question to the channel owners.
2008-01-16 13:14 < LuciferTiger> should 'not' i suppose Schroeder
2008-01-16 13:15 < boggies> Schroeder: heh.
2008-01-16 13:15 < teglin> since all of wikipedia is in the public domain, why not allow the conversations in here to also be in the public domain
2008-01-16 13:15 < Ceiling_Cat> teglin - I have never heard anyone object to public stats (the amount of actual quotation there is trivial)
2008-01-16 13:15 < NotACow> teglin: as far as i am concerned, anything you say in a public irc channel is already public
2008-01-16 13:15 < name_name> yup
2008-01-16 13:15 < Ceiling_Cat> and (b) wikipedia is not in the public domain (in the legal sense)
2008-01-16 13:15 < NotACow> you should assume that you're being logged and act accordingly
2008-01-16 13:15 < Schroeder> for example, a week or so ago Ceiling_Cat basically admitted that he was an abusive op, in his "shoot-first-ask-questions-later" approach regarding accounts he believes (without any sort of concrete evidence that he's willing to make public) to be socks of Jon Awbrey
2008-01-16 13:16 < Schroeder> s/op/Wikipedia admin/
2008-01-16 13:16 < Ceiling_Cat> Schroeder - ok, that's it, you were warned
2008-01-16 13:16 < NotACow> because, honestly, you are; at least a dozen of the idling nicks in here are here solely to log
2008-01-16 13:16 < boggies> Schroeder: "National Cowper's Fluid Day" << how do people celebrate that?
2008-01-16 13:16 * NotACow snickers
2008-01-16 13:16 < boggies> Ceiling_Cat: bah, you banned my favourite troll.
2008-01-16 13:16 < name_name> T__T
2008-01-16 13:17 < Ceiling_Cat> boggies - oh no, I'm not finished
2008-01-16 13:17 < Ceiling_Cat> he's getting autorem'd too
2008-01-16 13:17 < teglin> Ceiling_Cat, public stats or public logging, either way people have a right to read and search through previous discussions either for the purpose of citing what an individual said or to avoid having the same conversation
2008-01-16 13:17 < name_name> autorem'd?
2008-01-16 13:17 < Demi> for a shakespeare biographer, he spells pretty badly
2008-01-16 13:17 < Ceiling_Cat> name_name - think of it like a ban, but more permanent
2008-01-16 13:18 < teglin> for example, a discussion in #wikipedia might be referenced when making changes to an article
2008-01-16 13:18 < name_name> ah, logging the IP or something (then they could just change the gateway address on there's router if the has a DSL connection) lol
2008-01-16 13:18 * boggies releases his replies to PD.
2008-01-16 13:19 < Demi> the issue of no logging is about whether you want some asshole taping you in the bar where you bullshit with people; it's about the atmosphere here, not some notion of secrecy or "publicness"
2008-01-16 13:19 < NotACow> teglin: doing that is a surefire way to create drama.
2008-01-16 13:19 < Ceiling_Cat> teglin - that's the point of prohibiting logging -- because people don't want to feel like they are 'on the record' when they are in this channel
2008-01-16 13:19 < name_name> indeed
2008-01-16 13:20 < NotACow> they want to be able to act like the drunken juveniles they are without consequence :)
2008-01-16 13:20 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - those who lives in glass houses should not throw stones
2008-01-16 13:20 < Ceiling_Cat> live*
2008-01-16 13:20 < name_name> ^________^ http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png <3
2008-01-16 13:20 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: log me all you want.
2008-01-16 13:20 < boggies> don't you people mind when the FBI is recording us? :P
2008-01-16 13:20 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: no glass.
2008-01-16 13:20 < Demi> well, there's something very wrong with "citing #wikipedia" to make a change in an article, but the problem isn't that you can't review logs of #wikipedia
2008-01-16 13:20 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - Unless I'm mistaken, the whole "no logging" thing was trouted out repeatedly to cover up your misuses of the channels
2008-01-16 13:21 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: not by me
2008-01-16 13:21 < Ceiling_Cat> to badmouth people behind their backs
2008-01-16 13:21 < teglin> NotACow, is the goal of this channel to promote discussion among drunken juveniles?
2008-01-16 13:21 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: other people used it in my defense.
2008-01-16 13:21 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: mainly tony sidaway
2008-01-16 13:21 < LuciferTiger> lol i always thought "no public posting of logs allowed" meant that your arent allowed to copy paste logs in the chan :P
2008-01-16 13:21 < tawker> honestly, we need to re-think the logging thing
2008-01-16 13:21 < boggies> wasn't that around the time when the userboxen were forbidden?
2008-01-16 13:21 < Rinn> ASCII logs!
2008-01-16 13:21 < tawker> lets make an official log and be done w/ it
2008-01-16 13:21 < boggies> *were being banned
2008-01-16 13:21 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: most of my alleged "misuses" of IRC didn't actually happen. half the logs alleging that i miused irc were either fabricated or edited in misleading ways, anyway
2008-01-16 13:22 < tawker> that way people can't scream blue murder
2008-01-16 13:22 < tawker> well, I'll give you that - it's very easy to fabricate "logs"
2008-01-16 13:22 < name_name> lol I could write a python script to log this place and ftp it to a site in about 10 minutes... but I still don't see the point
2008-01-16 13:22 < Rinn> <NotACow> I hate Wikipedia and I'm going to DDoS the site! <--- Like that?
2008-01-16 13:22 < IceKarma> tawker, it can be difficult to do so convincingly, though
2008-01-16 13:22 < name_name> *ftp to a site as a .log or .txt
2008-01-16 13:22 < name_name> lol
2008-01-16 13:23 < Ceiling_Cat> name_name - private logging is OK
2008-01-16 13:23 < Ceiling_Cat> it's publication of those logs that we don't like
2008-01-16 13:23 < Ceiling_Cat> admittedly, it's difficult to enforce (impossible if you're careful about it)
2008-01-16 13:23 < name_name> so putting the logs on wikipedia?
2008-01-16 13:23 < name_name> is bad
2008-01-16 13:23 < Demi> name_name - no, distributing them, however
2008-01-16 13:23 < LuciferTiger> nooo
2008-01-16 13:23 * NotACow has been tempted to open up access to her irc log folder
2008-01-16 13:24 < LuciferTiger> HER?
2008-01-16 13:24 < NotACow> i'd have to set the access rights to restrict access to the PM logs, though
2008-01-16 13:24 < LuciferTiger> *that was supposed to read 'HERE'
2008-01-16 13:24 < NotACow> and to the SooperSekretCabalChannel that we secretly run all of wikipedia out of
2008-01-16 13:25 < name_name> @_@ so if I save logs to my compy or a ftp site it's ok, but if I send ppl links or file from those places that's bad. correct?
2008-01-16 13:26 < Ceiling_Cat> name_name - if you're putting those logs in places where other people can get to them, that public logging
2008-01-16 13:26 < Demi> name_name - no
2008-01-16 13:26 < Ceiling_Cat> that's*
2008-01-16 13:26 < tawker> gah, -admins is more off topic than #wikipedia
2008-01-16 13:27 < NotACow> tawker: yeah, i keep hearing that. i'm occasionally tempted to go in there, but then i hear about there's nothing to see anyway.
2008-01-16 13:27 < tawker> its mostly a useless channel
2008-01-16 13:27 < tawker> most of these irc channels are horribly offtopic
2008-01-16 13:27 < name_name> yup
2008-01-16 13:27 < NotACow> tawker: it's one of the rules of IRC
2008-01-16 13:27 < Rinn> Awwwww, you banned Schroeder?
2008-01-16 13:27 < Demi> that's a good thing
2008-01-16 13:27 < Rinn> I liked him. :(
2008-01-16 13:27 < NotACow> tawker: if you want sex, go to #linux. if you want linux help, go to #sex.
2008-01-16 13:28 < name_name> or #wikisex
2008-01-16 13:28 < tawker> name_name: that sounds wrong
2008-01-16 13:28 < Rinn> Nobody's in there. :(
2008-01-16 13:28 < NotACow> "The intercourse act that anyone can edit"
2008-01-16 13:28 * Ceiling_Cat snickers
2008-01-16 13:29 < name_name> yup. someone tipped it to me yesterday when I was in here... or maybe it was monday
2008-01-16 13:29 < name_name> idk
2008-01-16 13:29 < Demi> "wikisex" is hawaiian for "fast sex"
2008-01-16 13:29 < Ceiling_Cat> name_name - adopt a pet from #wikimedia-cats
2008-01-16 13:29 < Aqwis> wait, what did Schroeder do (except for oppsing my rfa ;>)?
2008-01-16 13:29 < name_name> y?
2008-01-16 13:29 < Rinn> #sex forwards you to ##you_have_got_to_be_kidding. :(
2008-01-16 13:29 < NotACow> Aqwis: irritated raul654.
2008-01-16 13:29 < Ceiling_Cat> Aqwis- repeatedly troll this channel
2008-01-16 13:29 < Aqwis> oh.
2008-01-16 13:29 < Ceiling_Cat> I gave him a final warning yesterday
2008-01-16 13:29 < Ceiling_Cat> He choose to disregard the warning
2008-01-16 13:30 < IceKarma> there's a place in New Zealand called Urewera, which is supposedly named for a visiting tribal chief who, while sleeping, rolled into the fire and burned his private bits -- "ure" means penis, "wera" hot or burnt
2008-01-16 13:30 < IceKarma> there's also another placename, the history of which I do not know, unfortunately, called Urenui
2008-01-16 13:30 < IceKarma> "nui" means "big".
2008-01-16 13:31 < LuciferTiger> wow i missed a fun discussion
2008-01-16 13:31 < Demi> IceKarma - i can come up with a better provenance than that, involving venereal disease
2008-01-16 13:31 < IceKarma> Demi, but you couldn't call that "wera"
2008-01-16 13:31 < LuciferTiger> what did he do today specifically?
2008-01-16 13:31 < Demi> IceKarma - there's different words for different feelings of burning?
2008-01-16 13:32 < Syntaxx00> flaming?
2008-01-16 13:32 < Syntaxx00> Demi, irritating?
2008-01-16 13:32 < Demi> Syntaxx00 - in maori or whatever
2008-01-16 13:32 < IceKarma> Demi, no, its primary meaning is hot, as in heat. there's a geothermal water park called Waiwera -- "hot water"
2008-01-16 13:33 < IceKarma> Demi, alas, I can't find my Maori dictionary at the moment
2008-01-16 13:34 < Syntaxx00> Maori? that Oceanic language spoken in New Zealand?
2008-01-16 13:34 < IceKarma> yeah
2008-01-16 13:34 < Syntaxx00> Ah, sorry. Can't help ya there.
2008-01-16 13:35 < kraupu> labas
2008-01-16 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> Aqwis - PM
2008-01-16 13:39 < quanticle|away> Demi: Well the Inuit have have a bunch of different word for different types of snow...
2008-01-16 13:40 < LuciferTiger> quanticle|away: i thought i was the eskimos
2008-01-16 13:40 < Demi> you mean esquimaux
2008-01-16 13:40 < LuciferTiger> prolly
2008-01-16 13:41 < LuciferTiger> when did they revert to the original?
2008-01-16 13:41 < name_name> brb
2008-01-16 13:41 < quanticle> LuciferTiger: They prefer to call themselves Inuit. Eskimo is derogatory term used by tribes to the south when referring to Inuit.
2008-01-16 13:41 < name_name> brb
2008-01-16 13:41 < LuciferTiger> oooo
2008-01-16 13:42 < LuciferTiger> i thought Inuit were some other kind of natives
2008-01-16 13:42 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Are there any pets left in #wikimedia-cats?
2008-01-16 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> quanticle - 3
2008-01-16 13:42 * Ceiling_Cat huggles name_name
2008-01-16 13:42 < quanticle> LuciferTiger: Nope, they're the same, just like Dakota and Sioux...
2008-01-16 13:43 < Zach> Ceiling_Cat: I just saw you on the volkswagen website
2008-01-16 13:44 < LuciferTiger> hmmm apparently its still used in alaska cuz the term 'Eskimo' is used to include some other kinds of natives too
2008-01-16 13:45 < name_name> #anime
2008-01-16 13:45 < name_name> I just did that so I could click on it
2008-01-16 13:45 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: True, just like Sioux refers to Dakota, Lakota, and Nakota tribes, there may be many tribes that are not Inuit, but still referred to as "Eskimo"
2008-01-16 13:45 < name_name> b/c my IRC client is shitty
2008-01-16 13:46 < LuciferTiger> theres a /j command you know
2008-01-16 13:46 < name_name> I didn't know that
2008-01-16 13:46 < name_name> wow
2008-01-16 13:46 < name_name> it works thanx
2008-01-16 13:47 < LuciferTiger> was that sarcasm i detected?
2008-01-16 13:47 < name_name> no
2008-01-16 13:47 < LuciferTiger> lol ok :P
2008-01-16 13:47 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: I think name_name is new to IRC...
2008-01-16 13:47 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: Are you?
2008-01-16 13:48 < LuciferTiger> yeah i know. sometimes newbies turn into sarcastic n00bz
2008-01-16 13:48 < name_name> I usually use ChatZilla but at school everyone uses IE6 >_< so I have a html page to does IRC
2008-01-16 13:48 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: CGI:IRC?
2008-01-16 13:48 < LuciferTiger> school? as in high school or univ?
2008-01-16 13:48 < name_name> Internet Relay Chat
2008-01-16 13:48 < name_name> high school
2008-01-16 13:48 < name_name> CGI:IRC
2008-01-16 13:48 < name_name> ?
2008-01-16 13:49 < LuciferTiger> he is asking if u are using CGI:IRC
2008-01-16 13:49 < LuciferTiger> what 'html page' do u use
2008-01-16 13:49 < name_name> a custom page I made that is saved to my network drive...
2008-01-16 13:50 < name_name> hold on
2008-01-16 13:50 < LuciferTiger> and how does it connect to irc?? you seem to be cooler than i thought :P
2008-01-16 13:50 < name_name> it's a moddified pjirc client
2008-01-16 13:51 < IceKarma> ew.
2008-01-16 13:51 < name_name> eh?
2008-01-16 13:51 < IceKarma> pjirc. ew.
2008-01-16 13:51 < name_name> it's lightweight and does the job had smilies too
2008-01-16 13:52 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: I don't think IceKarma likes Java...
2008-01-16 13:52 < name_name> anything better that would run on IE6 that would work with any channel/network
2008-01-16 13:52 < name_name> ah.. Java, is purrrrty
2008-01-16 13:52 < ggreer> java is a terrible language for everything but learning how to program
2008-01-16 13:53 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: Not so. You're just biased against Java because of its crap GUI toolkits...
2008-01-16 13:53 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, no, just pjirc
2008-01-16 13:53 < Schrodinger_Cat> IceKarma: Ah, ok.
2008-01-16 13:53 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: I'm biased against java because it takes a ton of code to get anything useful done
2008-01-16 13:53 < IceKarma> ggreer, I don't even think it's suitable for trying to teach -anything-
2008-01-16 13:53 < LuciferTiger> ggreer: like it or not, its VERY widely used
2008-01-16 13:54 < LuciferTiger> ggreer: depends on 'useful
2008-01-16 13:54 < klichka> The Encyclopedia ANYONE can edit
2008-01-16 13:54 < ggreer> of course it's widely used. I'm in the only group in this company that doesn't use java
2008-01-16 13:54 < name_name> T__T would rather being using ChatZilla or even Lynx
2008-01-16 13:54 < klichka> We need a hobopedia
2008-01-16 13:54 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: I'm biased for Java, because most everything is already there. Its a matter of looking through the API and putting the blocks together.
2008-01-16 13:54 < klichka> I want an encyclopedia made entirely by hobos
2008-01-16 13:54 < LuciferTiger> lol nice
2008-01-16 13:54 < klichka> don't you?
2008-01-16 13:54 < name_name> wikipedia is already run by hobos
2008-01-16 13:54 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, see, that's my big problem with Java. it _looks_ like everything's there, but when you actually try to -use- it, all hell breaks loose
2008-01-16 13:54 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: Do you have Linux on your home box?
2008-01-16 13:55 < Schrodinger_Cat> IceKarma: What sort of "hell"?
2008-01-16 13:55 < klichka> name:I said hobo, not basement dweller
2008-01-16 13:55 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: I'd say every modern language comes with decent libraries now
2008-01-16 13:55 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, J2ME coding is the only case in which java.* hasn't massively pissed me off -- and only because features that have been ripped out can't be full of bugs
2008-01-16 13:55 < klichka> Hey IceKarma, you know Tiger Cub?
2008-01-16 13:55 < IceKarma> klichka, my husband goes by that name
2008-01-16 13:55 < klichka> its you!
2008-01-16 13:55 < name_name> @cat sock master: I have 5 compys at home 3 of them run linux, aka yes
2008-01-16 13:56 < LuciferTiger> wtf.. u live in a lab or what
2008-01-16 13:56 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: True, but Java was the first to have a decently unified set of standard libraries, and so a lot applications are programmed in it...
2008-01-16 13:56 < ggreer> my uncle was a java developer for sun for almost a decade and he hates java
2008-01-16 13:56 < Schrodinger_Cat> IceKarma: I still don't see how any of the standard Java libraries are "full of bugs"
2008-01-16 13:56 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: not really. it's just a "safe" language, and it's taught pretty much everywhere
2008-01-16 13:56 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, let's see... the first time I tried to do something Useful(tm) in Java, Java's abysmally bad date and time handling almost scuttled the whole project
2008-01-16 13:56 < name_name> Lynx != Linux, one is a browser the other an OS
2008-01-16 13:57 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, it really didn't help that I was in New Zealand at the time, and the JDK at that time still thought that DST changed at the same time worldwide, leaving it backwards in the southern hemisphere
2008-01-16 13:57 < name_name> Python > Java but over 9000
2008-01-16 13:57 < name_name> *by
2008-01-16 13:57 < Demi> IceKarma - it's way more DIY than it seems, as well
2008-01-16 13:57 < IceKarma> Schrodinger_Cat, the next thing involved UrlConnection
2008-01-16 13:57 < Demi> plus it has a large amout of extraneous typing
2008-01-16 13:57 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: I know that Lynx != Linux, but Lynx often implies Linux...
2008-01-16 13:57 < ggreer> let's also not forget that java is slow. you have to wait for the VM to start up before anything useful can be done
2008-01-16 13:57 < Demi> Java is popular (and "safe") because, as Paul Graham says, it produces a lot of what looks like work.
2008-01-16 13:58 < name_name> ah, true
2008-01-16 13:58 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: Why don't you just SSH into your home box and use irssi
2008-01-16 13:58 < name_name> idk, brb
2008-01-16 13:58 < name_name> class break
2008-01-16 13:58 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: The slowness argument is dead as of version 1.4
2008-01-16 13:58 < Schrodinger_Cat> Demi: Heh. That's the first true thing I've heard about Java in a long time
2008-01-16 13:59 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: I'd say it also encourages bloated programs. the web group's crawlers run on some ridiculous number of machines, while our crawlers are written in C++ and crawl twice as fast using.... *drumroll* 6 machines
2008-01-16 13:59 < name_name> back
2008-01-16 14:00 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: I don't know. I rather like Python for most things, but Java + Tomcat + JSP is pretty powerful for any non-trivial web app
2008-01-16 14:00 < IceKarma> ggreer, you can write awful code in any language
2008-01-16 14:00 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4af9Q0Fa4Q
2008-01-16 14:00 < Ceiling_Cat> 2 minute and 36 seconds in
2008-01-16 14:00 < IceKarma> ggreer, ... but some languages encourage it more than others
2008-01-16 14:00 < Ceiling_Cat> Ron Paul says he doesn't believe in evolution
2008-01-16 14:00 < ggreer> IceKarma: yes, but java encourages awful code because it encourages lots of code
2008-01-16 14:00 < ggreer> so no single person can go back and review it all
2008-01-16 14:00 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: Yeah. That's the downside of having such a rich library. You're encouraged to use *everything*
2008-01-16 14:00 < ggreer> also the way we use C++ it's more like C with objects
2008-01-16 14:01 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: and look where it gets you. you end up with a larger, slower, buggier program
2008-01-16 14:01 < name_name> yeah
2008-01-16 14:01 * Lycurgus doesn't believe in Ru Paul
2008-01-16 14:01 < Lycurgus> *Ron
2008-01-16 14:01 < Demi> that's true, the more you can hold in your head at a time, that's a big win
2008-01-16 14:01 < name_name> >_< not poltics
2008-01-16 14:01 < Demi> Java has so much noise, it interferes with that
2008-01-16 14:01 < ggreer> I mean C/C++ isn't that great, but java is a step in the wrong direction
2008-01-16 14:02 < ggreer> my favorite languages are ruby and lua
2008-01-16 14:02 < Lycurgus> guffaw
2008-01-16 14:02 < Ceiling_Cat> how can a physician not believe in evolution?
2008-01-16 14:02 < ggreer> also python isn't bad, but I don't like the tab thing
2008-01-16 14:02 * Ceiling_Cat thinks that should be grounds for stripping someone's medical license
2008-01-16 14:02 < Schrodinger_Cat> Demi: Not necessarily. Code also has to be comprehensible. I've seen some pretty incredibly terse code written in Perl that was absolutely indistinguishable from line noise...
2008-01-16 14:02 < Demi> Ruby is quite nice in the whole object-oriented thingamajobber
2008-01-16 14:02 < Lycurgus> (though in fairness should look at lua first ...)
2008-01-16 14:02 < Demi> Schrodinger_Cat - what does that have to do with Java?
2008-01-16 14:02 < Tony_Sidaway> I've used C++ far more than Java, but Java is a better language for most purposes.
2008-01-16 14:02 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: perl is glue, it's not used for larger projects
2008-01-16 14:03 < name_name> glue taste yummy
2008-01-16 14:03 < Demi> noise in the sense i'm using is like signal to noise ratio: programmer intent is the signal, all the rest of the stuff you have to type is noise
2008-01-16 14:03 < name_name> lol
2008-01-16 14:03 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: The world begs to differ.
2008-01-16 14:03 < Tony_Sidaway> The stuff I'm coding at the moment is C at low level with all the interesting stuff written in Scheme.
2008-01-16 14:04 < Lycurgus> *yawn" although at least it does look a little Algol-like.
2008-01-16 14:04 < Ceiling_Cat> At age 19 I was kidnapped my Turkish pirates, mediterranean thugs
2008-01-16 14:04 < ggreer> the largest perl project I've seen is slashcode, which sucks
2008-01-16 14:04 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: My Universities web-portal system is coded entirely in Perl, and it has become an incomprehensible beast
2008-01-16 14:04 < Ceiling_Cat> after some torture they considered me their mascot, my cipriotic good luck
2008-01-16 14:04 < name_name> oye, whoever knows about irc commands
2008-01-16 14:04 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: that's using the wrong tool for the job. perl isn't meant for large projects
2008-01-16 14:04 < Tony_Sidaway> Having seen how effortlessly Lisp systems handle object orientation, I'm somewhat disenchanted with both C++ and Java.
2008-01-16 14:04 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: Tell that to the managers...
2008-01-16 14:04 < name_name> does /j work over different networks.
2008-01-16 14:05 < Demi> Perl Best Practices, by Damian Conway, is a great read, I highly recommend it if you ever touch Perl. It is simultaneously a really good book on using Perl and its most devastating indictment.
2008-01-16 14:05 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: in sane companies the manager is a software engineer, so he already knows this
2008-01-16 14:05 < name_name> basically what's the syntax or /j ? like can I add a network to it etc
2008-01-16 14:05 < Lycurgus> perl has a large installed base. Lots of commercial entities have codebases larger than slashdot.
2008-01-16 14:06 < Lycurgus> all of them more or less unpleasant
2008-01-16 14:06 < Tony_Sidaway> Perl has this absolutely massive library and a very good package build system, CPAN.
2008-01-16 14:06 < ggreer> Lycurgus: yeah, the 9th circuit's case filing system is written in perl. it's interesting to say the least
2008-01-16 14:06 < Schrodinger_Cat> Tony_Sidaway: Too bad Lisp libraries for web programming, database programming, or GUI programming are kinda scarce...
2008-01-16 14:07 < Tony_Sidaway> Schrodinger_Cat: I don't think I can agree with that at all.
2008-01-16 14:07 < Lycurgus> perl certainly ranks high on the uglyness scale
2008-01-16 14:07 < Demi> CPAN is full of awfulness, though of course there's some excellent stuff there
2008-01-16 14:07 < ggreer> the point is that perl is great for little programs, but terrible for large projects
2008-01-16 14:08 < Schrodinger_Cat> Tony_Sidaway: What sort of bindings does Lisp have for databases?
2008-01-16 14:08 < Tony_Sidaway> Java is good at large projects, but only in the sense that doing nearly anything in Java requires a large project and scads of programmer resource, sadly.
2008-01-16 14:08 < Schrodinger_Cat> ggreer: True. The issue is that little projects tend to grow organically...
2008-01-16 14:09 < Lycurgus> whoever addressed me several hours ago, didn't ignore you was afk, whatever was said has scrolled off and I'm not logging this channel
2008-01-16 14:09 < ggreer> Schrodinger_Cat: that's called a poorly scoped project
2008-01-16 14:09 < Tony_Sidaway> Schrodinger_Cat: I can only speak of Scheme. I've never had a problem coding any database I've ever needed to using any dialect of Scheme.
2008-01-16 14:09 < Schrodinger_Cat> Tony_Sidaway: Heh, I heard once that there are no Java programs, there are only Projects with a capital 'P'.
2008-01-16 14:10 < Schrodinger_Cat> Tony_Sidaway: Coding a database or connecting to an existing database, like postgre sql?
2008-01-16 14:10 < Demi> thinking that you can, or should, know everything about what needs to get done in a program, before beginning it, is wrongheaded, i think. it's everything that's wrong with waterfall and "classic" software development.
2008-01-16 14:10 < Tony_Sidaway> I will be very, very surprised indeed if Common Lisp doesn't have a very comprehensive database API that makes jdbc look like the work of amateurs.
2008-01-16 14:11 < Tony_Sidaway> Schrodinger_Cat: I assumed we were discussing connectivity, although I think coding a database in Lisp would be rather fun.
2008-01-16 14:11 < Lycurgus> there are CL db packages
2008-01-16 14:12 < ggreer> Demi: I think the best software development system is to have no system. just get a small group of people (8-10 max) and release every 2-4 weeks
2008-01-16 14:12 < ggreer> of course that limits what you can do, since larger projects take more time/people
2008-01-16 14:13 < Tony_Sidaway> I keep promising myself I will switch from Scheme to CL if I ever find a task that's too complex for Scheme. It hasn't happened yet.
2008-01-16 14:13 < name_name> :P
2008-01-16 14:14 * name_name testing IRC commands
2008-01-16 14:14 < Tony_Sidaway> Demi: lisp systems tend to grow like snowballs. You mess about with something in the REPL and it keeps getting bigger and more capable.
2008-01-16 14:14 < baka> cls
2008-01-16 14:14 < gwern> man, what *is* it with the Read or Die franchise and American presidents wetting themselves?
2008-01-16 14:14 < Demi> i could never get snowballs to work like that
2008-01-16 14:15 < baka> lol I remember that part in one of the OVA's
2008-01-16 14:15 < baka> the first one
2008-01-16 14:15 < gwern> in the OVA, the president wets himself. In the TV series, the president wets himself. And I suspect if I ever go read the manga - the president will wet himself at some point
2008-01-16 14:16 < LuciferTiger> lol
2008-01-16 14:16 < name_name> probly
2008-01-16 14:17 * Schrodinger_Cat has no idea what gwern is talking about
2008-01-16 14:18 < LuciferTiger> is Schrodinger_Cat == Schrodinger??
2008-01-16 14:18 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Goodness no
2008-01-16 14:18 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Schrodinger_Cat == quanticle
2008-01-16 14:18 < LuciferTiger> lol ok
2008-01-16 14:18 < LuciferTiger> ok
2008-01-16 14:18 * name_name faceplam
2008-01-16 14:19 < name_name> quanticle was here yesterday too, it's a party
2008-01-16 14:19 * LuciferTiger was too but not when u were trolling
2008-01-16 14:19 < LuciferTiger> they are called 'regulars'
2008-01-16 14:19 < LuciferTiger> im only a week old though
2008-01-16 14:20 < Lycurgus> well you're a "regular" now
2008-01-16 14:20 < gwern> don't wet yourself then
2008-01-16 14:20 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: I'm usually always logged on. I have a screen session on my home box that's always running irssi and finch. When I want to get on IRC or any sort instant messaging service, all I have to do is ssh in...
2008-01-16 14:20 < LuciferTiger> im not. not yet.
2008-01-16 14:20 * gwern shan't clean it up
2008-01-16 14:20 < name_name> lol
2008-01-16 14:20 < Lycurgus> wow, gwern shan't
2008-01-16 14:21 < LuciferTiger> gwern, stop schrodering
2008-01-16 14:21 < Lycurgus> *whoa
2008-01-16 14:21 < name_name> my classes are until may so I will probly be in here for a while
2008-01-16 14:21 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Schroedering?
2008-01-16 14:21 < LuciferTiger> trolling :P
2008-01-16 14:21 < bstone_away> does everyone here speak english?
2008-01-16 14:21 < LuciferTiger> or at the very least meaningless posting
2008-01-16 14:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Demi: that is in part how my WIndow manage grew. I wrote some glue code for the C functions and then started messing about in emacs at a Scheme prompt until I had something that handled my windows for me.
2008-01-16 14:22 < gwern> LuciferTiger: hark yourself
2008-01-16 14:22 < Lycurgus> .oO(I thought I was the only one that "shan't". Me and Bette Davis in "Now Voyager")
2008-01-16 14:22 < Schrodinger_Cat> Say, what did Ionas_Freeman do to get banned form #wikipedia? He's over in #wikipedia-en asking why he got banned...
2008-01-16 14:22 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: ew. why did the world need another window manager? even if it is a scheme one. what was wrong with sawfish or something?
2008-01-16 14:22 < LuciferTiger> does harking feel as good as fapping?
2008-01-16 14:23 < Lycurgus> better if FAP means Financial Assistance Program, like the buy out of employee pensions at IBM
2008-01-16 14:23 < gwern> it feels angelic, at least if you hark to the heralding angels. heck, don't ask me! find out yourself
2008-01-16 14:24 < name_name> Fap... Oh god! >.<
2008-01-16 14:24 * Ceiling_Cat watches
2008-01-16 14:24 < Tony_Sidaway> gwern: sawfish is okay, but I find it too complex and cluttered. I liked dwm but I wanted to rewrite the high level parts in Scheme. Et voila!
2008-01-16 14:24 < name_name> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fap
2008-01-16 14:25 < LuciferTiger> lol u got it right name name
2008-01-16 14:25 < Tony_Sidaway> I don't care much about what my windows look like, I'm more concerned about having a little helper that enables me to maximise my use of screen real estate with a minimum of manual effort. dwm is good at that, sawfish isn't.
2008-01-16 14:25 < Ceiling_Cat> name_name - http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kitten+killing
2008-01-16 14:25 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: if you want a dwm rewrite, use xmonad :)
2008-01-16 14:25 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: Now you need to add an entry for hark that references 'fap'
2008-01-16 14:25 < LuciferTiger> but u arent allowed to do it if ure a christian
2008-01-16 14:26 < Tony_Sidaway> gwern: I look at it. Horrible!
2008-01-16 14:26 < gwern> wut
2008-01-16 14:26 * Lycurgus started using xmonad a couple weeks ago (within fvwm and vnc)
2008-01-16 14:26 < name_name> >_____<
2008-01-16 14:26 * name_name dies
2008-01-16 14:26 < Demi> is dwm tiling like that?
2008-01-16 14:27 < Tony_Sidaway> For what it does, the source code of xmonad is HUGE and sprawling.
2008-01-16 14:27 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: so go use the old 500 line version of .2 or .3
2008-01-16 14:28 < gwern> Tony_Sidaway: and I think the code is pretty compact. the contribs could use cleaning, but what do you expect
2008-01-16 14:28 < Lycurgus> it isn't, the contribs maybe. The original intent was that it be ~500 SLOC
2008-01-16 14:28 < gwern> *the code's amount of
2008-01-16 14:29 < Demi> i always like these "this is what you should be using" discussions
2008-01-16 14:29 < Demi> where is sean what's-his-name? he loved them, too
2008-01-16 14:29 < gwern> whitton?
2008-01-16 14:29 < gwern> black?
2008-01-16 14:29 < Demi> heavens no
2008-01-16 14:29 < Lycurgus> but everything haskell has a slight punk ass and pettifogging tinge
2008-01-16 14:29 < Demi> maybe
2008-01-16 14:29 < Demi> yes, sean_black
2008-01-16 14:30 < Demi> i used to call them "sean_black should be using colloquy" discussions
2008-01-16 14:30 < gwern> pettifogging...? wow, I'm actually going to have to look that one up
2008-01-16 14:30 < name_name> colloguy = web hosting.. what are we talking bout?
2008-01-16 14:30 * NotACow snickers
2008-01-16 14:31 < name_name> don't you mean pettifapping?
2008-01-16 14:32 < bstone> wondering if people might review this and offering feedback on the talk page. thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:OMBUDSMEN
2008-01-16 14:32 < Schrodinger_Cat> Lycurgus: "Everything haskell has a slight punk ass and pettfogging tinge." What?
2008-01-16 14:32 < gwern> Schrodinger_Cat: I understand the punk part well enough
2008-01-16 14:32 < gwern> 'caviling: quibbling over insignificant details; "caviling pettifoggers and quiggling pleaders"-Edmund Burke; "her nagging and carping attack ...'
2008-01-16 14:33 < gwern> Lycurgus: caring about correctness is not pettifogging :)
2008-01-16 14:33 < gwern> (unless you think mathematicians pettifogg for a living)
2008-01-16 14:33 < Schrodinger_Cat> Lycurgus: Its not like Scheme is any less strict in that regard.
2008-01-16 14:33 < Lycurgus> sorry, I don't yet have an English response for the situation where I've said something that is clear and somebody says "what?" or "what do you mean". The touche troll isn't appropriate but something will doubtless be forthcoming.
2008-01-16 14:34 < Schrodinger_Cat> Lycurgus: Heh. True, but I did elaborate later on
2008-01-16 14:34 < gwern> (and the president wets himself a second time in R.O.D tv >.<)
2008-01-16 14:35 < Lycurgus> scheme seems crusty and staid by comparison. but my exposure to it is mainly thru scsh
2008-01-16 14:35 < NotACow> mep
2008-01-16 14:35 < NotACow> mep mep mep
2008-01-16 14:36 < name_name> gwern: counter how many times he does then goto the article and says 'character-x (if he as a name, or w/e) wets himself n times'
2008-01-16 14:36 < Schrodinger_Cat> Lycurgus: Scheme isn't bad. It was the first programming language I was formally taught.
2008-01-16 14:36 < name_name> with x and n variables
2008-01-16 14:36 < name_name> *count
2008-01-16 14:37 < gwern> name_name: I'm just amused. although it might be worth mentioning as a running gag
2008-01-16 14:37 < name_name> possibly
2008-01-16 14:37 < Lycurgus> I wonder if Perl 6 is a) still Haskell based and b) gonna be released before Haskell'
2008-01-16 14:38 * gwern heard pugs had slowed down; audrey tang was slacking or something
2008-01-16 14:39 * name_name yawns
2008-01-16 14:40 < neurotope> I am having trouble getting my new install of mediawiki to display an image that I have uploaded, it is a png... is there something i need to set so it will be treated as an image?
2008-01-16 14:40 < Lycurgus> the corner image/wiki logo?
2008-01-16 14:40 < neurotope> no, inline, in a document
2008-01-16 14:41 < neurotope> it shows as a link to the image rather than an image...
2008-01-16 14:41 < neurotope> and the system will not preview the image when i go to its file page...
2008-01-16 14:41 < Lycurgus> you have to enable image upload and display, I forget where, permissions on the dir have to be set, etc.
2008-01-16 14:41 < Lycurgus> is this on Windows?
2008-01-16 14:41 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-16 14:41 < Demi> i think once a significant part of the Perl 6 syntax was implemented, everyone sat down and went, "oh wow, this is pretty shitty."
2008-01-16 14:42 < neurotope> the hosting server is not windows
2008-01-16 14:42 < Demi> thus putting the brakes on pugs
2008-01-16 14:42 * name_name wonders if NotACow is a script
2008-01-16 14:42 < Lycurgus> no
2008-01-16 14:42 < LuciferTiger> no
2008-01-16 14:43 < gwern> Demi: judging by the links on reddit, they are still plugging away... perl is so monstrous I really can't judge whether perl 6 is more or less monstrous
2008-01-16 14:43 < name_name> rly? how can you tell
2008-01-16 14:43 < Lycurgus> neurotype: there is a #mediawiki if I'm not mistaken
2008-01-16 14:43 < LuciferTiger> she talks.
2008-01-16 14:43 < LuciferTiger> often.
2008-01-16 14:43 < name_name> ah
2008-01-16 14:43 < Demi> gwern - a look at the subroutine prototying symbolic language provides the answer
2008-01-16 14:44 < Demi> if you liked punctuation before, get ready for some extra!
2008-01-16 14:44 < gwern> Demi: what is a subroutine prototyping... etc?
2008-01-16 14:45 < Lycurgus> *neurotope: ↑
2008-01-16 14:45 < Demi> gwern - there's a "rich" system of doing subroutine prototypes, with nice esoteric punctuation-based weirdness to influence all kinds of variations on subroutine argument processing
2008-01-16 14:46 < Demi> it's a mini-language in itself, a little like regular expressions, except pointless
2008-01-16 14:46 < Demi> think about if the current abortion of subroutine prototypes were tossed in a bowl with some water and whipped up into a huge foamy lather, that's the idea
2008-01-16 14:47 < Demi> oh i guess it's a little like pack templates, too
2008-01-16 14:47 < gwern> Demi: for... argument processing? as in, allowing for stuff like common lisp's (defun foo (bar &optional baz)) arguments?
2008-01-16 14:47 < Thehelpfulone_> wimt .. change the topic in this channel XD
2008-01-16 14:47 < Demi> more or less
2008-01-16 14:48 < Demi> except there are many more distinctions: flatten the rest of the arguments as a list, absorb name value pairs, don't flatten, pass by reference, etc. etc.
2008-01-16 14:48 < Demi> all with their @* $$_ variations
2008-01-16 14:48 < name_name> how would I open a channel in another network without opening another pjIRC page and reconfiguring that one?
2008-01-16 14:48 < wimt> Thehelpfulone_, heh one sec
2008-01-16 14:48 < gwern> bizarre. you don't need to do that much complex stuff with variable arguments, do you really?
2008-01-16 14:48 < name_name> is there a command, like /join to do that
2008-01-16 14:49 < Demi> gwern - no! that's the beauty part!
2008-01-16 14:49 < gwern> name_name: usually your client has a /connect option to connect to multiple networks
2008-01-16 14:49 < name_name> so /connect and the name of the network?
2008-01-16 14:49 < Thehelpfulone_> :)
2008-01-16 14:49 < gwern> Demi: hah!
2008-01-16 14:51 < Cometstyles> ooh wimt op abuse :P
2008-01-16 14:51 < wimt> Indeed. I'm terribly abusive.
2008-01-16 14:51 < Cometstyles> i hate short topics :|
2008-01-16 14:51 < name_name> "/connect" fails
2008-01-16 14:51 < name_name> it kicked me off freenode
2008-01-16 14:52 < wimt> name_name, what pjIRC are you using? Does it allow connections to other networks or just freenode?
2008-01-16 14:52 < LuciferTiger> ugh.... the dog puked on the couch
2008-01-16 14:52 < LuciferTiger> stupid bitch
2008-01-16 14:52 < neurotope> hmmm, still no dice... i am trying to get my install of MW to show uploaded png files as images, it is working with jpg all ready
2008-01-16 14:53 < Demi> god dammit
2008-01-16 14:53 < Demi> what is the logic behind making healthcare spending accounts and things like them some kind of game?
2008-01-16 14:53 < name_name> well I can open the local .htm file and change it easy as pie, but it's sort of annoying open a new window, edit the doc, then load that page
2008-01-16 14:54 < Demi> if you want medical or childcare expenses tax-deductible up to a certain limit, just make them that way; why do i have to place a bet at the beginning of the year about how much i'll use?
2008-01-16 14:54 < name_name> a simple thing like the join command would be nicer (that opens a new 'tab' in pjIRC)
2008-01-16 14:55 < neurotope> Demi, the account is managed for free, they are trying to keep costs down...
2008-01-16 14:55 < neurotope> anyone know where the list of image type extentions are hidden so i can check on this?
2008-01-16 14:56 < Ceiling_Cat> WHOA
2008-01-16 14:56 < LuciferTiger> what happnd
2008-01-16 14:56 < name_name> O_o?
2008-01-16 14:56 < Ceiling_Cat> a former congressman has been indicted for funding terrorists
2008-01-16 14:56 < LuciferTiger> sweet
2008-01-16 14:56 < Ceiling_Cat> http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hw36mXsH7fbogLzqW06NU31aQAmgD8U75UU83
2008-01-16 14:56 < Cometstyles> Gore O_O
2008-01-16 14:56 < name_name> who?
2008-01-16 14:56 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Mark Deli Siljander]]
2008-01-16 14:56 < neurotope> did he give money to microsoft?
2008-01-16 14:57 < Cometstyles> XD
2008-01-16 14:57 < Ceiling_Cat> no, Al Queda
2008-01-16 14:57 < LuciferTiger> wooo hooo!!! a Republican
2008-01-16 14:57 < neurotope> LuciferTiger <- LOL
2008-01-16 14:57 < LuciferTiger> take that you retarded belligerent sons of bitches
2008-01-16 14:57 < Theunhelpfulone> this really is off topic XD
2008-01-16 14:57 < Demi> neurotope - what is the point of making it an "account"? that's what creates the situation
2008-01-16 14:57 < Zach> Only in Kenyyyyyyyya
2008-01-16 14:58 < JerseyDevil86> forget norway
2008-01-16 14:58 < neurotope> Demi - the idea was that you never had to pay the taxes on it to begin with... so it starts with 20-25% more... rather than getting a rebate... they are structureing the tax code with safetys in place for people who are bad at math, or people who are up to no good.
2008-01-16 14:59 < Cometstyles> Theunhelpfulone, I said thehelplesone :ps
2008-01-16 14:59 < Theunhelpfulone> :Ps
2008-01-16 15:01 * name_name yawns again
2008-01-16 15:02 < JerseyDevil86> http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/
2008-01-16 15:02 * Theunhelpfulone is a pure wikipedia vandal XD >:-D >:-(
2008-01-16 15:02 < JerseyDevil86> http://www.usveterandispatch.com/
2008-01-16 15:02 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Panic about Al Queda sleeper cells in 5... 4... 3...
2008-01-16 15:02 < name_name> they sleep.. lol
2008-01-16 15:02 < JerseyDevil86> The guys that put up that flyer in South Carolina about McCain
2008-01-16 15:03 < JerseyDevil86> crazy guys
2008-01-16 15:06 < LuciferTiger> Im too lazy to turn on the tv... but im sure theres a lot of paranoid reactions out there already
2008-01-16 15:06 < LuciferTiger> and some rednecks going brown ppl bashing
2008-01-16 15:07 * name_name thinks bashing ppl is no good
2008-01-16 15:07 < Ceiling_Cat> I suppose getting indicted for fundraising for al queda is one way to get your wikipedia biography expanded
2008-01-16 15:08 < morwen> It's not something I'd advise, though.
2008-01-16 15:08 * Aqwis ponders who's most worthy of my donation, al queda or wikimedia
2008-01-16 15:08 < morwen> There are much easier ways of doing it
2008-01-16 15:08 < Zach> volkswagen.de has a ceilingcat easter egg on it
2008-01-16 15:08 < Zach> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4A48fI5og8
2008-01-16 15:08 < name_name> Aqwis: why not both?
2008-01-16 15:08 < Aqwis> perhaps
2008-01-16 15:08 < Aqwis> $1 for each
2008-01-16 15:09 < LuciferTiger> but Schrodinger_Cat has a good point. At that time, US and Al-qaida were 'Friends'
2008-01-16 15:09 < name_name> yup
2008-01-16 15:09 < LuciferTiger> just like US and saddam were
2008-01-16 15:09 < LuciferTiger> and so were US and Iran
2008-01-16 15:10 < LuciferTiger> also US and saudi arabia.
2008-01-16 15:10 < LuciferTiger> oh wait they are still friends.
2008-01-16 15:10 < morwen> It may be noted that Saddam betrayed the US
2008-01-16 15:10 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Yeah, despite the fact that the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were saudi
2008-01-16 15:10 < name_name> *** USA Fails
2008-01-16 15:10 < LuciferTiger> and why not! full 20% of the 911 hijackers were NOT from saudi
2008-01-16 15:10 < Theunhelpfulone> XCHAT IS OFFICIALLY THE WORST IRC CLIENT EVER -- YOU ONLY GET A 30 TRIAL!
2008-01-16 15:11 < Schrodinger_Cat> morwen: Well, he invaded Kuwait to pay off the debts from his little adventure against Iran
2008-01-16 15:11 < LuciferTiger> lol true Schrodinger_Cat
2008-01-16 15:11 < Aqwis> Theunhelpfulone, there are free builds of XChat for Windows
2008-01-16 15:11 < Aqwis> i'm using one.
2008-01-16 15:11 < Aqwis> http://www.silverex.org/news/
2008-01-16 15:11 < Zach> Theunhelpfulone is using the wrong xchat
2008-01-16 15:11 < LuciferTiger> lol where do u think osama got his cool ninja stealth moves from?
2008-01-16 15:12 < name_name> Theunhelpfulone: ever heard of a keygen or a crack or the windows registery?
2008-01-16 15:12 < Aqwis> not worth cracking XChat tbh when there are good free versions
2008-01-16 15:12 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Don't forget the Stinger missiles that we "forgot" to retrieve
2008-01-16 15:12 < LuciferTiger> theres more... Pakistan... so sweet of US to give them all those F16s and more billions
2008-01-16 15:12 < LuciferTiger> yeah
2008-01-16 15:13 < LuciferTiger> i wonder in whose hands those F16 and those subsidized nukes will be pretty damn soon.
2008-01-16 15:13 < gwern> 'Our paper is in heaven and all is right with the world' <-- yeah, I figured ROD tv was borrowing from Evangelion long before the final episode
2008-01-16 15:14 < name_name> wait F16? I thought it stopped at F12
2008-01-16 15:14 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: The f-16s won't be any threat to us. Just ask Iran how they're doing with their F-14s.
2008-01-16 15:14 < LuciferTiger> I think 'belligerence' and 'fundamentalism' and 'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Fighting_Falcon
2008-01-16 15:14 < Schrodinger_Cat> name_name: We're up to F-35
2008-01-16 15:14 < LuciferTiger> oh su-30s beat the shit out of F16 anways
2008-01-16 15:14 < name_name> ah, I was making a keyboard pun... b/c I'm bored
2008-01-16 15:15 < LuciferTiger> I think 'belligerence' and 'fundamentalism' and 'dictatorship' are the qualifying criteria for getting US aid
2008-01-16 15:15 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Not surprising since Su-30s were designed to go up against the F-15, not the F-16...
2008-01-16 15:16 < LuciferTiger> despite being bordered by terrorists and communists, india doesnt get aid :P not that it needs a lot
2008-01-16 15:16 < LuciferTiger> i thought the greater numbers were better?
2008-01-16 15:17 < name_name> F1 is more helpful the F12
2008-01-16 15:17 < morwen> this is why communism lost
2008-01-16 15:17 < LuciferTiger> UTC?
2008-01-16 15:18 < morwen> their function keys only went up to F8
2008-01-16 15:18 < Demi> ah, right
2008-01-16 15:18 < LuciferTiger> lol
2008-01-16 15:18 < neurotope> ok, localized what is going on, it is getting the wrong mimetype for png files...
2008-01-16 15:18 < morwen> psst: nobody tell the stalin who has time-travelled to our era from 1943
2008-01-16 15:18 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Not always. Bigger numbers are later. The F-16 is a single engine multi-role fighter that was developed as a more economical alternative to the big, high performance F-15
2008-01-16 15:18 < LuciferTiger> aaahh
2008-01-16 15:19 < name_name> in soviet russia you help F1
2008-01-16 15:19 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Just like the F-35 is a more economical alternative to the F-22
2008-01-16 15:19 < LuciferTiger> in soviet russia F1 is for monitoring
2008-01-16 15:19 < name_name> F11 blows up things
2008-01-16 15:19 < LuciferTiger> Schrodinger_Cat: didnt know that. i follow the russian lines more.
2008-01-16 15:20 < shimgray> don't forget the numbering reset
2008-01-16 15:20 < shimgray> and the P/F switch before that
2008-01-16 15:20 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: I find the Russian lines harder to follow because they don't have a unified numbering scheme
2008-01-16 15:20 < Schrodinger_Cat> shimgray: Its always amusing to see people wonder why the F-86 came *before* the F-15
2008-01-16 15:21 < LuciferTiger> yeah they are kinda scattered over the plane as well...
2008-01-16 15:22 < name_name> ..............
2008-01-16 15:22 < Schrodinger_Cat> LuciferTiger: Well, its more that every design bureau kept its own numbering line, so a MiG-27 isn't the same as a Su-27, which is also different from a Il-27
2008-01-16 15:22 < LuciferTiger> exactly
2008-01-16 15:24 < Schrodinger_Cat> Also, is it just me, or does the MiG-29 look sleeker than the F-15 its based on? The difference is marginal, but real.
2008-01-16 15:25 < Ceiling_Cat> hehe
2008-01-16 15:26 < Ceiling_Cat> [[Mark D. Siljander]] got 17 edits in its first 2 1/2 years of existance
2008-01-16 15:26 < Ceiling_Cat> it's gotten another 34 in the last couple hours since his indictment was announced
2008-01-16 15:26 < LuciferTiger> i like to think that the migs werent bases on f 15s
2008-01-16 15:27 < ShakespeareFan00> PING ST47
2008-01-16 15:27 < ShakespeareFan00> An wiki farmers around?
2008-01-16 15:27 < ShakespeareFan00> *any wiki farmers around?