freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-15 16:36 < shimgray> there is a very good reason to withold income tax - it saves a hell of a lot of money
2008-01-15 16:36 < Ceiling_Cat> mavhk - see [[Night watchman state]]
2008-01-15 16:36 < Demi> prior to modern nations it's a little tough to make comparisons about "what the government does"
2008-01-15 16:36 < Cyrius> shimgray: huh?
2008-01-15 16:37 < shimgray> much less money wasted on chasing it up and getting it out of people, much less defaulting, so the cost of managing the tax goes down
2008-01-15 16:37 < Cyrius> ah
2008-01-15 16:37 < mavhk> but it's not as if someone went, "hey, how about we form a government that does everything!", then started with defense and expanded as people asked for more stuff
2008-01-15 16:37 < Demi> i suppose ron paul wants us all to collect chits or something on purchases and pay our sales taxes at the end of the month
2008-01-15 16:37 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - yes, so do most if not all of the democrats
2008-01-15 16:37 < Ceiling_Cat> except Hillary
2008-01-15 16:37 < Cyrius> I was about to say "but not Hillary"
2008-01-15 16:38 < Ceiling_Cat> BRV
2008-01-15 16:38 < Ceiling_Cat> BRB*
2008-01-15 16:38 < Demi> "bring the military back from overseas" is a little simplistic
2008-01-15 16:38 < shimgray> http://plagiarist.com/poetry/4842/
2008-01-15 16:39 < Cyrius> demi: of course it is
2008-01-15 16:39 < shimgray> (for a different retreat from overseas)
2008-01-15 16:39 < Cyrius> it's about the only thing the president can do by decree though
2008-01-15 16:39 < Cyrius> at least, with a congress with the balls to actually try to oppose him
2008-01-15 16:39 < Demi> we have a military conflict now, like it or not, and it has to be managed well, whatever the pace of withdraw; i just wish there were any candidate i thought could actually effectively do that
2008-01-15 16:40 < Demi> but then, i voted for clark in 2004
2008-01-15 16:40 < shimgray> you don't need a candidate who can manage it well
2008-01-15 16:40 < Cyrius> I saw it proposed elsewhere today that we should tell Iran that it's their problem
2008-01-15 16:40 < Cyrius> keep them busy =)
2008-01-15 16:40 < shimgray> you need a candidate who can *get someone to ,manage it well*, and leave them to it, and stop them going too far
2008-01-15 16:40 < Cyrius> unrealistic but hilarious
2008-01-15 16:40 < shimgray> (this is, mind you, even harder to do)
2008-01-15 16:41 < Demi> shimgray - that's part of managing it well; i don't like the "assemble a team of handlers" attitude toward the executive
2008-01-15 16:41 < Cyrius> shimgray: I just read your link. better to leave the children money and parents than no money and dead parents
2008-01-15 16:41 < Demi> personal ability is probably more important in a president (to me) than ideology
2008-01-15 16:42 < shimgray> (BRB - nipping out)
2008-01-15 16:50 < samtheboy> What's up with wiki at the moment?
2008-01-15 16:50 < Phoenix-wiki> DEATH TO DATABASE LOCKING
2008-01-15 16:50 < Thehelpfulone> samtheboy -- about the ask the same question
2008-01-15 16:50 < GDonato> samtheboy: Thehelpfulone I believe we call it "broken" :P
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> XD
2008-01-15 16:51 < samtheboy> lol
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> yeah but what exactly :(
2008-01-15 16:51 < samtheboy> when did it go down?
2008-01-15 16:51 < ChrisD> Something wrong? Seems that I'm experiencing page load errors on all pages.
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> just now
2008-01-15 16:51 < wimt> ChrisD, yeah appears to be down
2008-01-15 16:51 < GDonato> ChrisD: yes
2008-01-15 16:51 < Paintman> wiki down?
2008-01-15 16:51 < ChrisD> righto
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> the whole server is down :(
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> yep :(
2008-01-15 16:51 < wimt> Back up!
2008-01-15 16:51 < eljo> sry that was me, clicked a link ;)
2008-01-15 16:51 < stawayster> Thehelpfulone: no
2008-01-15 16:51 < ChrisD> i hate it when wiki does this crap to me. ):
2008-01-15 16:51 < stawayster> only knams
2008-01-15 16:51 < GDonato> samtheboy: 21:47 UTC
2008-01-15 16:51 < samtheboy> huzzah!
2008-01-15 16:51 < Thehelpfulone> knams?
2008-01-15 16:51 < b0llan1> nice :)
2008-01-15 16:51 < Weden> rejoice
2008-01-15 16:52 < ChrisD> back online
2008-01-15 16:52 < Norton> work here
2008-01-15 16:52 < ZeroTrace_> Happy birthday to Wikipedia, and it's back up :)
2008-01-15 16:52 < Thehelpfulone> back
2008-01-15 16:52 < WolfMother> Ooh, is it back up?
2008-01-15 16:52 < ChrisD> yep.
2008-01-15 16:52 < alexanderpas> confirming back!
2008-01-15 16:52 < samtheboy> that must seriously stress out the techies at wikimedia :D
2008-01-15 16:52 < stawayster> Thehelpfulone: the servers in Amsterdamn
2008-01-15 16:52 < WolfMother> Woheee, and just when I joined here to ask about it :)
2008-01-15 16:52 < Sunderland2006> how old is wikipeidia now
2008-01-15 16:52 < ChrisD> ...
2008-01-15 16:52 < ralphje> Party! We are back! :D oh and congratulations :)
2008-01-15 16:52 < stawayster> Sunderland2006: March 2001
2008-01-15 16:52 < Sunderland2006> ok
2008-01-15 16:52 < stawayster> I think
2008-01-15 16:52 < ChrisD> and then there was nupedia
2008-01-15 16:52 < ChrisD> before that.
2008-01-15 16:52 < Thehelpfulone> why are there so many excess ops in #wikipedia-overflow
2008-01-15 16:53 < ChrisD> i wondered about that
2008-01-15 16:53 < ChrisD> it transferred me over before.
2008-01-15 16:53 < ChrisD> not sure.
2008-01-15 16:53 < stawayster> good question
2008-01-15 16:53 < wimt> Thehelpfulone, because it's where floodbots often end up when the channel join limit blocks them
2008-01-15 16:53 < Thehelpfulone> werdan7, excess ops? in #wikipedia-overflow
2008-01-15 16:53 < Sunderland2006> when was that nupedia started
2008-01-15 16:53 < Thehelpfulone> so why do they op?
2008-01-15 16:54 < ChrisD> ...
2008-01-15 16:54 < ChrisD> look at the wikipedia article.
2008-01-15 16:54 < ChrisD> ah
2008-01-15 16:54 < Thehelpfulone> oh yeah, there is going to be a wikipedia article on that XD
2008-01-15 16:54 < ChrisD> says March 9, 2000
2008-01-15 16:55 < ChrisD> March 9, 2000 was when nupedia started, so i guess that would be it.
2008-01-15 16:55 < ChrisD> jesus, every time i look at that article, jimbo looks a little more like the hoff
2008-01-15 16:56 < Sunderland2006> so nupedia was a earlier wikipedi
2008-01-15 16:56 < Sunderland2006> a
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> no, it was the old name for it
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> iirc
2008-01-15 16:57 < CTerry> I wish I looked like the Hoff :(
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> ah, well
2008-01-15 16:57 < Cyrius> ChrisD: you're incorrect
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> nupedia was different
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> people would submit
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> and then the articles would be formally reviewed.
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> Cyrius: ?
2008-01-15 16:57 < Cyrius> when you said "old name"
2008-01-15 16:57 < ChrisD> and i quote
2008-01-15 16:58 < ChrisD> ...
2008-01-15 16:58 < ChrisD> "He founded the free online encyclopedia Nupedia (2000) (which was renamed to Wikipedia in 2001),"
2008-01-15 16:58 < Thehelpfulone> wimt, do you use your powers a lot in this channel?
2008-01-15 16:58 < Sunderland2006> #nupedia
2008-01-15 16:58 < wimt> Thehelpfulone, heh not much
2008-01-15 16:58 < Cyrius> ChrisD: meh, Wikipedia was started as a looser offshoot of Nupedia
2008-01-15 16:58 < Cyrius> it wasn't "let's change the name"
2008-01-15 16:58 < ChrisD> i'll fix up that innacuracy on the wales page
2008-01-15 16:59 < Cyrius> separate operations by the same people
2008-01-15 16:59 < Warpath> shhh British People :P
2008-01-15 16:59 < ChrisD> fixed page
2008-01-15 17:00 < Warpath> yes CTerry ?
2008-01-15 17:01 < CTerry> I was just wondering where you were in the world, and thought I'd be terribly rude and /ctcp TIME it out of you :P
2008-01-15 17:01 < ChrisD> we brits rule on wiki
2008-01-15 17:01 < ChrisD> the cite template want's OUR time template
2008-01-15 17:02 < ChrisD> EAT THAT.
2008-01-15 17:02 < ChrisD> i tried it american, i thought it would want that
2008-01-15 17:02 < Cyrius> only because UTC is the standard
2008-01-15 17:02 < ChrisD> but OH NO.
2008-01-15 17:03 < ChrisD> by the way, is anyone getting a 500 on this?
2008-01-15 17:03 < ChrisD> http://tools.wikimedia.de/%7Eriver/cgi-bin/count_edits?user=Asenine&dbname=enwiki_p
2008-01-15 17:03 < Weden> yeah
2008-01-15 17:03 < SNORLAX> you brits rule at apostrophe's
2008-01-15 17:04 < Demi> all the brit's are in the bag
2008-01-15 17:04 < Weden> If there's an s, i put an apostrophe
2008-01-15 17:04 < Weden> to be safe
2008-01-15 17:04 < ChrisD> that's 'apostrophies' ;)
2008-01-15 17:04 < bumm13> hng
2008-01-15 17:04 < ChrisD> hah, anyone in RL thinks i'm some sort of nerd. but i'm not. im a lv32 warlock.
2008-01-15 17:04 < bumm13> (darn cat :P )
2008-01-15 17:04 < ChrisD> ... scratch that last
2008-01-15 17:04 < Demi> brits love night elf's
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> well, i'm a brit
2008-01-15 17:05 < CTerry> Can I just say that, as a Brit, we disassociate ourselves from ChrisD entirely
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> and i have no idea what that is.
2008-01-15 17:05 < bumm13> hiya Demi
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> HOW SO
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> I DIS
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> oh whatever
2008-01-15 17:05 < ChrisD> maybe it's my juvenile instinct creeping in again
2008-01-15 17:05 < Demi> hi bumm13
2008-01-15 17:09 < ChrisD> ah, BBC2. what would i do without you.
2008-01-15 17:09 < mavhk> watch bbc4
2008-01-15 17:09 < ChrisD> what's on
2008-01-15 17:09 < mavhk> bbc4 is the real bbc2, bbc2 is dumbed down now
2008-01-15 17:10 < ChrisD> nah, mock the week is on.
2008-01-15 17:10 < mavhk> dunno, who watches channels any more?
2008-01-15 17:10 < ChrisD> can't beat frankie boyle.
2008-01-15 17:10 * FormentarHome moved to the UK last year ad has yet to get a TV. Life is great without one.
2008-01-15 17:11 < CTerry> BBC iPlayer is the way to go
2008-01-15 17:11 < mavhk> you can stream all the bbc stuff from iplayer with flash
2008-01-15 17:11 < mavhk> but I just download everything from uknova
2008-01-15 17:11 < ChrisD> bah. my bandwidth kills, so.
2008-01-15 17:11 < CTerry> Or OnDemand on VirginMedia
2008-01-15 17:11 < ChrisD> ffs, 40gig may be good, but not when you've got 6 people using it.
2008-01-15 17:11 < CTerry> Screw you BBC! WIth your pre-scheduled programming!
2008-01-15 17:11 < ChrisD> 4OD is pretty bad, man.
2008-01-15 17:12 < ChrisD> if that's the preferred.
2008-01-15 17:12 < mavhk> ChrisD: you need a central p2p computer that everyone can queue stuff on
2008-01-15 17:12 < ChrisD> simply don't have the time
2008-01-15 17:12 < ChrisD> i'm running vista, for shame. i already have a dunce hat on for being to lazy to dual boot with netbsd
2008-01-15 17:13 < mavhk> 40gig what?
2008-01-15 17:13 < ChrisD> up/down
2008-01-15 17:13 < CTerry> I'm not talking about 4OD. I'm talking about Virgin OnDemand, its a service that comes with Virgin Cable Digital which allows you to stream a whole load of programmes instantaneously at high quality
2008-01-15 17:14 < ChrisD> hrm
2008-01-15 17:14 < ChrisD> might have to take a look at that.
2008-01-15 17:14 < ChrisD> any idea on the bandwidth usage?
2008-01-15 17:14 < CTerry> It doesn't factor into the internet connection
2008-01-15 17:14 < mavhk> gbps? gigabytes per year?
2008-01-15 17:14 * ChrisD gets the wikipedia article
2008-01-15 17:15 < ChrisD> GB/pm
2008-01-15 17:15 < mavhk> so what's available on on demand?
2008-01-15 17:15 < mavhk> ah, well that's crap
2008-01-15 17:15 < mavhk> get cable
2008-01-15 17:16 < CTerry> Most of the original TV programmes on in the last seven days, and a few full series of stuff. I can watch the entire third series of Peep Show whenever I like for instance
2008-01-15 17:16 < mavhk> for which channels?
2008-01-15 17:16 < bumm13> cable broadband Internet uses outbound frequencies, IIRC
2008-01-15 17:16 < CTerry> All the major ones
2008-01-15 17:16 < ChrisD> @mavhk - it's the internet cap.
2008-01-15 17:17 < mavhk> yes, get cable internet
2008-01-15 17:17 < ChrisD> it's late at night, i'm probably misunderstanding everyone
2008-01-15 17:17 < ChrisD> wait, it's not
2008-01-15 17:17 < ChrisD> bloody hell, i got up early.
2008-01-15 17:17 < ChrisD> gcse sci today, bored the hell outta me, so.
2008-01-15 17:17 < mavhk> so why are the bbc working on an iplayer for cable tv if it already exists?
2008-01-15 17:17 < bumm13> (7-49 MHz in North America)
2008-01-15 17:18 < ChrisD> iirc, iplayer wasn't really 'on demand'
2008-01-15 17:18 < CTerry> Because the BBC loves to waste money? I've streamed many a BBC show off Virgin OnDemand
2008-01-15 17:18 < mavhk> there's downloadable iplayer, and streaming iplayer, they're working on iplayer for cable stb
2008-01-15 17:18 < ChrisD> k
2008-01-15 17:19 < mavhk> downloadable is xp only, although 2003 works with some hacking, then you run fu4wm to undrm it
2008-01-15 17:19 < ChrisD> btw, has anyone got the new KDE?
2008-01-15 17:19 < CTerry> Does it not work with Vista?
2008-01-15 17:19 < ChrisD> i took a look, but...
2008-01-15 17:19 < mavhk> possibly
2008-01-15 17:20 < CTerry> Apparently the BBC is going to make the downloadable iPlayer work with OS X and Linux.
2008-01-15 17:20 < CTerry> Or so I'm reliably informed
2008-01-15 17:20 < mavhk> uknova's still easier, 2 clicks
2008-01-15 17:20 < ChrisD> yeah, but we all know about BBC and their promises.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> iplayer won't have DRM? oh wait.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> 1 promise.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> broken.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> in tatter.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> s.
2008-01-15 17:21 < mavhk> when did they say that?
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> i honestly can't remember.
2008-01-15 17:21 < CTerry> They never said that.
2008-01-15 17:21 < ChrisD> it was miles back, iirc they did
2008-01-15 17:21 * ChrisD searches
2008-01-15 17:21 < mavhk> weird how drm on music is basically dead now
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> seems i'm wrong
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> hah, DRM on music was idiocy
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> with itunes, you could just burn them to a pc
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> pointless.
2008-01-15 17:22 < mavhk> cd
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> cd
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> IT'S LATE.
2008-01-15 17:22 < mavhk> can you burn to a virtual cd?
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> ISO?
2008-01-15 17:22 < ChrisD> well, presumably
2008-01-15 17:23 < mavhk> well, not iso because it's red book audio surely
2008-01-15 17:23 < ChrisD> hrm
2008-01-15 17:23 < ChrisD> FairUse4WM strips most anyway
2008-01-15 17:23 < CTerry> Its not late, its twenty past ten. Or maybe I just don't think its late because I went to bed at 4am and woke up 12, and got dressed at half 1
2008-01-15 17:23 < ChrisD> i woke up at 3am.
2008-01-15 17:24 < ChrisD> ¬¬
2008-01-15 17:24 < mavhk> I keep waking due to tooth ache
2008-01-15 17:24 < ChrisD> argh, must go.
2008-01-15 17:24 < ChrisD> see you guys later.
2008-01-15 17:24 < CTerry> You did what?!
2008-01-15 17:24 < ChrisD> and hit me up, User:Asenine on en
2008-01-15 17:25 < ChrisD> auf wiederheisen
2008-01-15 17:25 < Demi> i am attempting to buy a straight razor from eBay
2008-01-15 17:26 < bumm13> heehee
2008-01-15 17:26 < CTerry> What's wrong with a gay razor? Homophobe.
2008-01-15 17:26 < bumm13> *groan* (displeasure)
2008-01-15 17:26 < Demi> i don't shave that way, not that there's anything wrong with that
2008-01-15 17:27 * FormentarHome sells Demi a bobcat.
2008-01-15 17:30 < Sfan00> CTerry: bent razors are useless
2008-01-15 17:30 < Demi> there's always so much to know about these things
2008-01-15 17:31 < Sfan00> Demi: What sort of razor do you buy on ebay?
2008-01-15 17:31 < Sfan00> I thought you could get really chep ones in Walmart and stuff?
2008-01-15 17:32 < Sfan00> *cheap
2008-01-15 17:32 < Sfan00> or do you mean a razor of the Sweeny Tood design...
2008-01-15 17:32 < Sfan00> *Todd
2008-01-15 17:33 * Ceiling_Cat returns
2008-01-15 17:35 < Demi> a cutthroat razor
2008-01-15 17:36 < bumm13> an Occam's razor
2008-01-15 17:36 < Demi> as with many things, what they make now is poor quality, and you want to find an old one
2008-01-15 17:36 < Demi> that's why i've bought a lot of my tools on eBay
2008-01-15 17:36 < FormentarHome> bumm13: To chop off all redundant bits with? :-)
2008-01-15 17:36 < Demi> but eBay makes everything expensive
2008-01-15 17:36 < bumm13> sure :)
2008-01-15 17:36 < bumm13> shipping costs sometimes suck
2008-01-15 17:36 < bumm13> s/sometimes/frequently
2008-01-15 17:37 < Demi> it magnifies the price because every possible buyer can find it
2008-01-15 17:37 < bumm13> it just depends what you want
2008-01-15 17:38 < shimgray> on the other hand, sometimes you get stuff that no-one but you wants
2008-01-15 17:38 * shimgray pats his two new Annual Registers
2008-01-15 17:38 < bumm13> some of that "every possible buyer" factor is offset by the sheer quantity of goods
2008-01-15 17:38 < shimgray> (1774 and 1775! pity completing the set is a bit out of my range)
2008-01-15 17:40 * Ceiling_Cat watches shimgray's heavy patting
2008-01-15 17:40 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: How's FAs?
2008-01-15 17:41 < Lubaf> And are you planning on getting involved with the IRC case?
2008-01-15 17:41 < shimgray> Ceiling_Cat: you're just jealous.
2008-01-15 17:41 < Ceiling_Cat> lubaf - (a) huh? What about them?
2008-01-15 17:41 < Ceiling_Cat> and (b) No, I am no longer an arbitrator
2008-01-15 17:41 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: (a) When I ask any variation on "How's _____", I mean "How's life?"
2008-01-15 17:42 < Lubaf> And (b) For the purposes of the IRC case, you still are, IIRC.
2008-01-15 17:42 < shimgray> Lubaf: Howzat?
2008-01-15 17:42 < Ceiling_Cat> I am?
2008-01-15 17:42 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: You are.
2008-01-15 17:42 * Ceiling_Cat hrms
2008-01-15 17:42 < Luna-San> I believe the IRC case opened before tranches cycled, and old/new arbs are all able to participate in a massive arbcom battle royale.
2008-01-15 17:42 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: You're listed as Inactive, so you don't have to do anything.
2008-01-15 17:43 < Rinn> IRC case?
2008-01-15 17:43 < Lubaf> But, if you want to, you can enter into the cage match with UC, FT2, and all the rest!
2008-01-15 17:43 < IceKarma> Luna-San, "slices"? I'm missing a technical definition, it seems
2008-01-15 17:43 * Lubaf starts chanting "Royal Rumble / Royal Rumble"...
2008-01-15 17:44 < Luna-San> IceKarma: Hm? I don't think I used that word recently... >.>;
2008-01-15 17:44 < IceKarma> Luna-San, "tranches"
2008-01-15 17:44 < Luna-San> Ooh. The arbcom cycles through, one third of the seats are up for election, every year.
2008-01-15 17:45 < IceKarma> aha
2008-01-15 17:45 < Ceiling_Cat> Lubaf - you could at least chant Attica! Attica!
2008-01-15 17:45 < Luna-San> For whatever reason each third is referred to as a tranche, in this case. I just went on my merry way without every questioning it. </mindcontrol>
2008-01-15 17:45 < Ceiling_Cat> I need to go shortly
2008-01-15 17:45 * Ceiling_Cat gives lubaf a facehuggle
2008-01-15 17:45 < Lubaf> Ceiling_Cat: That's only for if the case results in a manifest injustice.
2008-01-15 17:45 < IceKarma> Luna-San, oh, now that you explain it, it makes perfect sense
2008-01-15 17:45 < Ceiling_Cat> (Just wanted to do that before I leave)
2008-01-15 17:45 < Luna-San> Hardly a new idea, cycling that way, but I have no idea the proper vocab to describe it. :p
2008-01-15 17:45 * Lubaf gives Ceiling_Cat a facestabble.
2008-01-15 17:45 < Ceiling_Cat> Lubaf - frankly, I think it will
2008-01-15 17:45 < IceKarma> Luna-San, it's borrowed from French, where it means "slice" ;)
2008-01-15 17:46 < shimgray> tranche is a damn good word
2008-01-15 17:46 < Luna-San> Ahh. Nifty to know. Thanks~
2008-01-15 17:47 < Demi> for this use i probably would not have used "tranche", because i'm not that insufferable
2008-01-15 17:47 < Demi> i probably would have used "group" or "cohort"
2008-01-15 17:48 < Luna-San> I prefer "thingy."
2008-01-15 17:52 < geniice> hmm new erro message
2008-01-15 17:52 < mystery2134> is wikipedia down?
2008-01-15 17:52 < jand_> it's back
2008-01-15 17:53 < mystery2134> oh awesome
2008-01-15 17:53 < mystery2134> i personally think i could spend the rest of my life correcting the PoV in articles on wikipedia.. >_>
2008-01-15 17:54 < mystery2134> im not the type of person that cluelessly comes in and just edits that
2008-01-15 17:54 < mystery2134> but there's honestly pov all over the place
2008-01-15 17:54 < Aqwis> <mystery2134> i personally think i could spend the rest of my life correcting the PoV in articles on wikipedia.. >_>
2008-01-15 17:54 < Aqwis> please do
2008-01-15 17:55 < jand_> What happens if I mark an article's section with {{Cleanup-spam|section}}, and the spammer (at least he is in my opinion) removes the not immediately?
2008-01-15 17:55 < Aqwis> it doesn't matter, you'll be banned after a few months anyway ;)
2008-01-15 17:55 < jand_> sorry
2008-01-15 17:55 < jand_> "… removes the mark immediately." that should be
2008-01-15 17:57 < jand_> What happens if I mark an article's section with {{Cleanup-spam|section}}, and the spammer (at least he is in my opinion) removes the mark immediately?
2008-01-15 17:58 < Rinn> Presumably you'll have to add it again.
2008-01-15 17:58 < jand_> … ad infinitum …
2008-01-15 17:58 < jand_> :-(
2008-01-15 17:58 < jand_> I yield
2008-01-15 17:59 < Platonides> until he's blocked
2008-01-15 17:59 < Rinn> That'll show 'im.
2008-01-15 18:00 < Luna-San> jand_: Realistically, I tend to wait until they're bored and moved on, *then* restore it. :p Or start a talk thread, and ask more people to take a quick look. Or just do the cleanup, sometimes that's easier than arguing over tags.
2008-01-15 18:00 < jand_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macworld_Conference_%26_Expo#2008
2008-01-15 18:01 < jand_> whatever; i've been at it for 5 or 6 rounds now
2008-01-15 18:01 < jand_> maybe I'll come back tomorrow
2008-01-15 18:02 < Luna-San> jand_: Hmm. I think you've got a point, although I'm not sure who's right ultimately. If the Spore release is making big news, it seems we might as well include it.
2008-01-15 18:02 < Luna-San> But if it's just one product among many, it's not so relevant.
2008-01-15 18:03 < jand_> 1) it's a trade show; there is thousands of products
2008-01-15 18:03 < TheWeasel> Don't the Democrats vote today too?
2008-01-15 18:03 < jand_> 2) there is no such mentioning in earlier years
2008-01-15 18:03 < jand_> 3) What's Spore? Can't be big news: I never heard of it ;-)
2008-01-15 18:03 < jand_> Thx for the support, Luna-San
2008-01-15 18:03 < jand_> :x
2008-01-15 18:04 < jand_> oops
2008-01-15 18:04 < jand_> 8) is what I meant, Luna-San
2008-01-15 18:05 < Luna-San> Spore's the new Maxis game, same company that made The Sims. Some people are really excited about it, so I could maybe see a Mac release making news... but I don't follow the news frenzy surrounding Apple in general, nor MacWorld in particular, so this is unfamiliar ground for me. :p
2008-01-15 18:05 < TheWeasel> oh, they do but it doesn't count
2008-01-15 18:05 < TheWeasel> so Michiganders are Dem-ly disenfranchised
2008-01-15 18:06 < Rinn> It's procedurally generated!
2008-01-15 18:06 < Luna-San> I suppose we could compare to other articles, say on [[E3]] that might mention "prominent" products from a given year. Generally, though, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment, unless there's some evidence this really stands above the bar.
2008-01-15 18:07 < Rinn> It got an article on Slashdot.
2008-01-15 18:09 < Luna-San> jand_: Anyway, I started a thread on the talk page. Feel free to comment. Since I haven't talked to you, before, I think, thanks for your interest and effort. =D
2008-01-15 18:09 < Luna-San> Rinn: Ah, thanks
2008-01-15 18:12 < geniice> Spore did have people exicted in the past but less so now
2008-01-15 18:16 * TheWeasel listens to Charlie Rangel... croak.
2008-01-15 18:17 < TheWeasel> he sounds a bit like an aging bird
2008-01-15 18:18 < Ionas_Freeman> First I thought NotASpy was Daniel Brandt mocking Kelly Martin (NotACow), then saw "Heligoland" in the description and knew it was St. User:Nick.
2008-01-15 18:18 * NotASpy waves
2008-01-15 18:19 < Ionas_Freeman> How do you do one of those things like "NotASpy waves"
2008-01-15 18:19 < NotASpy> /me then the text
2008-01-15 18:19 < NotASpy> so /me waves gives
2008-01-15 18:19 * NotASpy waves
2008-01-15 18:19 * Ionas_Freeman like this
2008-01-15 18:19 < jand_> Luna-San: added comments as above to talk page; thx for the interest
2008-01-15 18:27 * TheWeasel doesn't want to hear the word "leader" ever again
2008-01-15 18:27 < TheWeasel> it's hard to believe it gets so overused in a democratic country
2008-01-15 18:27 < Demi> what if something has more lead in it than something else?
2008-01-15 18:27 < TheWeasel> it's laden with leaden material
2008-01-15 18:27 < Demi> ladener, i think you mean
2008-01-15 18:27 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-01-15 18:28 < TheWeasel> more ladener
2008-01-15 18:29 < TheWeasel> maybe it's because the German translation of "leader" is "Führer" in German
2008-01-15 18:29 < TheWeasel> so it gets underused here
2008-01-15 18:30 < TheWeasel> o.o Obama chanting "sí, se puede"
2008-01-15 18:31 < shimgray> TheWeasel: ?
2008-01-15 18:31 < Demi> funnily enough, we have an aversion to using "king" here, but "queen" we say plenty
2008-01-15 18:31 < shimgray> ...ah, we have an article on it
2008-01-15 18:32 < TheWeasel> King of Rock'n'Roll!
2008-01-15 18:32 < Demi> King of Pop
2008-01-15 18:33 < TheWeasel> anyway, that overuse of "leader" and "leadership" is disturbing in a democracy
2008-01-15 18:33 < shimgray> Demi: Not that remarkable; "queen" is a more genericised term. (A king is by definition a head of state and nothing else; a queen can be a head of state, but can simply be a consort or a widowed consort... so it doesn't automatically imply leader, just "important")
2008-01-15 18:33 < Demi> And of course, the Choke King
2008-01-15 18:33 < TheWeasel> where the president is just one guy
2008-01-15 18:33 < Demi> in the Artichoke Capital of the World
2008-01-15 18:33 < Ionas_Freeman> yeah, democracy is supposed to be power to the people.
2008-01-15 18:33 < Demi> shimgray - well, when we say it it means someone light in the loafers
2008-01-15 18:34 < Ionas_Freeman> representative != democracy
2008-01-15 18:34 < shimgray> Headline in the Metro (tabloid) - "Petrol-spitting man in largely predictable fire"
2008-01-15 18:34 < shimgray> now there's a sub-editor who loves his job
2008-01-15 18:34 < Demi> that's like an onion headline
2008-01-15 18:34 < shimgray> Ionas_Freeman: didn't we flog this one to death a few hours back?
2008-01-15 18:34 < Ionas_Freeman> yeah.
2008-01-15 18:35 < shimgray> "Smoking crusader totally made up that thing about smoking"
2008-01-15 18:35 < shimgray> I think he's clearly trying to emulate the style.
2008-01-15 18:36 < Demi> it's not a great headline, however, because usually you want to communicate what happened to the man in the fire
2008-01-15 18:36 < Demi> burned? saved from? died in?
2008-01-15 18:36 < shimgray> ha!
2008-01-15 18:36 < shimgray> "Antarctic Christmas even less fun than you'd imagine"
2008-01-15 18:37 < TheWeasel> Local Cat In Undecided State Of Life After Poisoning By Physicist
2008-01-15 18:37 < shimgray> Demi: It communicates "man was stupid", which is really the only reason anyone would be reading it
2008-01-15 18:37 < Demi> TheWeasel - nice
2008-01-15 18:38 < TheWeasel> sorry, Area Cat
2008-01-15 18:38 < TheWeasel> they don't do much "Area Men" lately
2008-01-15 18:41 < Sfan00> http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/681741/Headmounted_3DDisplay_WiiMote.html - 3D without 3d GLASSES - WOW!
2008-01-15 18:43 < Sfan00> The modern equivlant of the 'potrait' eyes effect :)
2008-01-15 18:45 < TheWeasel> o.o Lou's teeth again
2008-01-15 18:45 < TheWeasel> I'll brb or something
2008-01-15 18:48 < Zach> futurama fans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaeiwFPrjJE
2008-01-15 18:52 < Ionas_Freeman> Just 'zat Mascot Guy, you know?, is he back?
2008-01-15 18:57 < Ionas_Freeman> I Want To Give A Big Thanks to MONGO Everybodies Friend For Being A Prudish Little Crybaby On Encyclopedia Dramatica,
2008-01-15 18:58 < CTho> how do you tell if something like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overclocking&curid=175973&diff=184539676&oldid=184114228 is decent?
2008-01-15 18:58 < CTho> the site being added looks ok, but what kind of notability requirements are there usually?
2008-01-15 19:00 < Xihix> Happy Wikipedia day, everyone.
2008-01-15 19:00 < geniice> eh it is being added at the top by an ip. revert it
2008-01-15 19:02 < yao_ziyuan> why isn't there any nice skins like http://wiki.mozilla.org/MozillaWiki:About ?
2008-01-15 19:03 < CTho> yao_ziyuan: ?
2008-01-15 19:03 < yao_ziyuan> i mean all wikipedia skins suck ...
2008-01-15 19:03 < Alkivar> so does anyone other than me expect this new MacBook Air to be a major flop?
2008-01-15 19:04 < Luna-San> "New laptop slightly smaller than last laptop" is good, but not earth-shattering.
2008-01-15 19:04 < Demi> Apple people will buy it
2008-01-15 19:04 < CTho> I dunno, a small laptop is always nice
2008-01-15 19:04 < CTho> i'm more pissed about the $20 for the firmware on ipod
2008-01-15 19:04 < Demi> if it's apple, they will buy it; over and over
2008-01-15 19:04 < Alkivar> sealed in battery thats not user replaceable
2008-01-15 19:05 < Alkivar> 80gb maximum PATA hard drive... did i mention its a 1.6" iPod hard drive?
2008-01-15 19:05 < Alkivar> and 4200rpm
2008-01-15 19:05 < Alkivar> oh and thats not user replaceable either
2008-01-15 19:05 < Alkivar> nor is the ram
2008-01-15 19:06 < Alkivar> yeah way to go apple... you've just made my dayjob secure for the next 3 years
2008-01-15 19:06 < Demi> like i said, it doesn't have to make sense
2008-01-15 19:06 < Alkivar> not to mention apple stole the touchpad from the OLPC
2008-01-15 19:06 < Alkivar> lol
2008-01-15 19:06 < Alkivar> not even an original size/design
2008-01-15 19:07 < Demi> well, people have been touching things for a while
2008-01-15 19:07 < Alkivar> demi: the olpc has multi-touch capabilites also
2008-01-15 19:07 < Alkivar> thats what i mean
2008-01-15 19:07 < Demi> so do the fingerworks keyboards
2008-01-15 19:08 < Alkivar> it uses the Intel GX3100 graphics chip which EATS SHIT for games
2008-01-15 19:08 < Alkivar> it wont even run World of Warcraft (one of the few games that runs on mac's well) above 12fps
2008-01-15 19:08 < Demi> that doesn't sound like a very good game
2008-01-15 19:08 < Demi> or maybe it's just a very narrow audience appeal
2008-01-15 19:09 < Alkivar> mark my words... this is apple's equivalent of New Coke
2008-01-15 19:10 < ggreer> the macbook air doesn't come with a 8800gtx therefore it sucks
2008-01-15 19:10 < Alkivar> all the worst complaints of the iPod in the size/shape of a laptop
2008-01-15 19:11 < ggreer> the ipod is the best selling personal music device ever
2008-01-15 19:11 < ggreer> so I guess it's not too bad
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> you dont service them... I do
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> i see 5-6 broken ipods a day
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> #1 problem... dead battery
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> whats the #1 most important thing in a laptop?
2008-01-15 19:11 < ggreer> yeah, batteries die over time
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> the battery
2008-01-15 19:11 < Alkivar> you cant replace it in the new macbook
2008-01-15 19:11 < ggreer> every laptop battery eventually gets old and doesn't take a charge
2008-01-15 19:12 < ggreer> my ibook's original battery is only 2/3rds its original capacity, and it's 3 years old
2008-01-15 19:13 < Demi> in theory nothing in the macbooks is user replaceable, that's what they tell me in my little manual; for the macbook pro anyway
2008-01-15 19:13 < Alkivar> untrue
2008-01-15 19:13 < Alkivar> ram/hd are user replaceable
2008-01-15 19:13 < ggreer> replacing the hard drive in a macbook takes like 40 screws
2008-01-15 19:13 < Alkivar> you dont void warranty until you take out the torx screws
2008-01-15 19:13 < ggreer> it's crazy
2008-01-15 19:13 < ggreer> well, pro
2008-01-15 19:13 < Xihix> How do people like Apple?
2008-01-15 19:13 < ggreer> the normal macbook is fine
2008-01-15 19:14 < ggreer> Xihix: look at how thin that thing is
2008-01-15 19:14 < Xihix> picture
2008-01-15 19:14 < Xihix> link
2008-01-15 19:14 < TheWeasel> I am TheWeasel, and I approve this massage. (sic)
2008-01-15 19:15 < Demi> ggreer - luckily i can count to 40
2008-01-15 19:15 < Demi> and i can even operate a torx screwdriver! whee!
2008-01-15 19:15 < Xihix> well anyway
2008-01-15 19:15 < Xihix> It's a thin laptop
2008-01-15 19:15 < Demi> and i can open up a macbook and replace the hard drive without fucking it up, which is more than i can say for my local "authorized service center"
2008-01-15 19:15 < Xihix> Who gives a shit?
2008-01-15 19:16 < Demi> you know, like the iphone is a thin phone
2008-01-15 19:16 < Demi> it's really... thin
2008-01-15 19:16 < shimgray> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/magnus_linklater/article3193083.ece - ah, nice to see another staid columnist likes us
2008-01-15 19:16 < Demi> Alkivar - you need to remove torx screws six ways from sunday to replace the hard drive
2008-01-15 19:17 < Demi> (it actually says that in the official manual: "six ways from sunday")
2008-01-15 19:17 < Alkivar> no you only have to remove the phillips brass screws in the macbook g5 and intel mac
2008-01-15 19:17 < Demi> in the macbook pro
2008-01-15 19:17 < shimgray> ha! "hould I trust Macaulay's error-littered, Whig-biased History of England simply because it is bound in leather and will take a trip to the library to find?"
2008-01-15 19:18 < Demi> shimgray - there's plenty of leather in wikipedia, as we know; and being bound, for that matter
2008-01-15 19:18 < Mike_H> so going in for Jeopardy! was such a waste
2008-01-15 19:18 < Luna-San> {{imagereq}}
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> Ok, now I'm pissed
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> It has one usb port
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> no drivers
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> small hd
2008-01-15 19:19 < Demi> no drivers?
2008-01-15 19:19 < Mike_H> Apparently some losers got there like
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> like 3k
2008-01-15 19:19 < Mike_H> seven hours before the doors opened
2008-01-15 19:19 < Xihix> $3k*
2008-01-15 19:20 < Mike_H> and the people who actually got there at 5 were turned away
2008-01-15 19:20 < Cyrius> only if you buy the thousand dollar solid-state disk
2008-01-15 19:20 < Mike_H> because they already hit their 1,000 people
2008-01-15 19:20 < Demi> Mike_H - i thought there was phone screen first?
2008-01-15 19:20 < Mike_H> No.
2008-01-15 19:20 < Xihix> basically, it's a downgraded macbook in a thinner case
2008-01-15 19:20 < Xihix> revolutionary?
2008-01-15 19:20 < Mike_H> It was just a casting call.
2008-01-15 19:20 < Cyrius> it's $1800 stock
2008-01-15 19:20 < Xihix> pfft. It's an Apple product, thats enough for me to ignore it.
2008-01-15 19:20 < Cyrius> Xihix: you're making a lot of noise for someone ignoring something
2008-01-15 19:21 < shimgray> what is it we're ignorning?
2008-01-15 19:21 < Lycurgus> ignores dumbass apple fanpeople even louder
2008-01-15 19:21 < Cyrius> shimgray: new macbook, apparently
2008-01-15 19:21 < Demi> shimgray - whig bias at apple
2008-01-15 19:21 < shimgray> oh, is it shiny bakelite paperweight time *again*?
2008-01-15 19:21 < Xihix> What was I ognoring?
2008-01-15 19:22 < Cyrius> subnotebooks cost more and have fewer features than their larger siblings, film at 11
2008-01-15 19:22 < shimgray> Demi: Apple are probably pretty big on Whig historiography, actually
2008-01-15 19:22 < Cyrius> shimgray: _aluminum_
2008-01-15 19:22 < Xihix> uhh
2008-01-15 19:22 * Ceiling_Cat returns
2008-01-15 19:22 < Xihix> I think I'm fine with my laptop. That I can upgrade.
2008-01-15 19:22 < Demi> i think people will like the touching thing
2008-01-15 19:22 < Xihix> Hey Raul.
2008-01-15 19:22 < shimgray> oh, come off it. all those Mac products in the last six years or so look like bakelite, that shiny white stuff.
2008-01-15 19:22 < Ceiling_Cat> Hello Xihix
2008-01-15 19:22 < Cyrius> shimgray: they've been using aluminum on their computers
2008-01-15 19:23 < Cyrius> ok, not the macbook
2008-01-15 19:23 < shimgray> (all that "steady progress towards a better humanity" thing. very California.)
2008-01-15 19:23 < Demi> shimgray - that's a little previous, last year they switched to an aluminum look, and aluminum-looking plastic
2008-01-15 19:23 < shimgray> oh, did they?
2008-01-15 19:23 < shimgray> pah.
2008-01-15 19:23 < Lycurgus> <- paid $175 in exhange for my eMac and yeah it's shiny white.
2008-01-15 19:23 * shimgray continues to call them bakelite, anyhow
2008-01-15 19:23 < Xihix> Say Raul, would it be possible if you could uhh
2008-01-15 19:23 < Cyrius> shimgray: very "we're tired of having greenpeace issuing press releases about it"
2008-01-15 19:23 < Xihix> tell me before you promoted an article in the front page request?
2008-01-15 19:23 < Cyrius> shimgray: 'bakelite' is almost unknown in modern US parlance
2008-01-15 19:23 < Xihix> so I could get ready to put my article in.
2008-01-15 19:23 < Lycurgus> c
2008-01-15 19:24 < Demi> well, it's not unknown if you're talking about bakelite
2008-01-15 19:24 < nazgjunk> Cyrius, it's not like anyone uses the stuff anymore anyway
2008-01-15 19:24 < Demi> i'm actually trying to buy something with bakelite right now
2008-01-15 19:24 < Ceiling_Cat> Xihix - I'll consider it
2008-01-15 19:24 < Ceiling_Cat> (no promises though)
2008-01-15 19:24 < shimgray> Cyrius: It's pretty unknown in modern parlance, period. But it's still a very descriptive workd!
2008-01-15 19:24 < Xihix> well, I mean, if I'm around in here.
2008-01-15 19:24 < Xihix> a little shout out wouldn't be bad.
2008-01-15 19:24 < Xihix> :)
2008-01-15 19:24 * Demi looks through his mica window
2008-01-15 19:25 < Cyrius> anyway, apple made a subnotebook. if you want a subnotebook mac, then look into it. otherwise, why get worked up for or against?
2008-01-15 19:25 < shimgray> at a guess (because I know how this always goes):
2008-01-15 19:26 < Krimpet> subnotebook? can I take it underwater?
2008-01-15 19:26 < shimgray> FOR: "My god, it's so shiny! it must be the most incredible thing ever! only $4,000 base? I'll take two, one for the cat! Thankyou, God!"
2008-01-15 19:26 < Cyrius> sub as in smaller, not submarine
2008-01-15 19:26 * Krimpet hopes it's yellow, too
2008-01-15 19:26 < shimgray> AGAINST: "Please, shut up already, you said that *last week*..."
2008-01-15 19:26 < Cyrius> as awesome as a submarine mac would be
2008-01-15 19:26 < Demi> well, in part because we had the twitter feed pasted to us here during the press conference or whatever
2008-01-15 19:26 < shimgray> INTERNET: [cries for encores]
2008-01-15 19:27 < ggreer> I think the thing will sell like crazy and apple will make tons of money, just like always
2008-01-15 19:27 * shimgray finishes summarising every apple product release ever
2008-01-15 19:27 < Demi> i know, it wasn't a press conference, and it wasn't twitter
2008-01-15 19:27 < Demi> but you know what i mean
2008-01-15 19:27 < Cyrius> shimgray: 1: it's only $1800 base, and 2: the complaints are more hateful than necessary to express annoyance
2008-01-15 19:28 < shimgray> Cyrius: I did say "at a guess". :-)
2008-01-15 19:28 < Cyrius> and no, I don't want one
2008-01-15 19:28 < Demi> you have to admit that steve jobs and apple launch products in a pretty ridiculously puffed-up manner that more or less demands ridicule and aggressive unimpressedness.
2008-01-15 19:29 < shimgray> then you are majestically ambivalent, like all right-thinking people. come, sit on the fence with us.
2008-01-15 19:29 < Cyrius> the only neat thing I see about it is the oversized multitouch trackpad
2008-01-15 19:29 < Demi> i think they should have actually made a giant iphone
2008-01-15 19:29 < Demi> it would look exactly like an iphone but be a foot and a half long
2008-01-15 19:29 < Cyrius> there's some slight software neatness with the remote drive borrowing
2008-01-15 19:30 < Xihix> I just found something out
2008-01-15 19:30 * Krimpet spits upon apple and curses the soul of steve jobs - is that hateful enough to express annoyance? :)
2008-01-15 19:30 < Xihix> the notebook doesn't have an ethernet plug?
2008-01-15 19:30 < Cyrius> Demi: giant novelty versions of existing products are always a laugh
2008-01-15 19:30 < Cyrius> Xihix: how could you just find that out?
2008-01-15 19:30 < ggreer> Xihix: correct, just like the OLPC
2008-01-15 19:30 < Xihix> wasn't paying attention
2008-01-15 19:30 < Xihix> oh man thats hilarious
2008-01-15 19:30 < shimgray> wires are so last year
2008-01-15 19:30 * Lycurgus doesn't see the point especially now that it's all intel. It's not like they were innovators any more than MS. At least my eMac is still a PPC.
2008-01-15 19:30 < Luna-San> Why in hell would you not have an ethernet port?
2008-01-15 19:30 < Demi> Cyrius - it could work just like an iphone, except the soft keyboard would be full-size and you could actually see the video on it
2008-01-15 19:30 < ggreer> haha, an emac
2008-01-15 19:30 < Xihix> no ethernet plug = fucking fail
2008-01-15 19:31 < ggreer> Luna-San: well, because it's too thin for one
2008-01-15 19:31 < Cyrius> Xihix: what did you think the "Air" meant?
2008-01-15 19:31 < Cyrius> wireless
2008-01-15 19:31 < ggreer> a cheap usb-ethernet adapter will do the job
2008-01-15 19:31 < Demi> ggreer - it could pop out, like it used to on those PC card ethernet adapters
2008-01-15 19:31 < Demi> (i actually always liked those)
2008-01-15 19:31 < ggreer> apple would never design something hideous like that
2008-01-15 19:31 < Demi> ha!
2008-01-15 19:32 < Cyrius> ggreer: I dunno, they've made a few ugly pieces of crap in their history
2008-01-15 19:32 < Luna-San> ggreer: Suppose that's a difficult limitation to overcome. Still seems silly, but eh.
2008-01-15 19:32 < Cyrius> ignoring personal taste differences
2008-01-15 19:32 < SNORLAX> I don't like apples
2008-01-15 19:32 < SNORLAX> cucumbers are more efficient
2008-01-15 19:32 < SNORLAX> because you can eat the whole thing
2008-01-15 19:32 < Cyrius> but an apple tree gives you shade
2008-01-15 19:33 * Lycurgus feeds an ole nag a granny smith.
2008-01-15 19:33 < Demi> yeah, a cucumber tree doesn't do that
2008-01-15 19:33 < Krimpet> I'm sure they'll probably have a proprietary port on the thing, like on the iPod, that lets you connect overpriced peripherals like ethernet adapters
2008-01-15 19:33 < ggreer> Krimpet: nope, it has power, audio, usb, and microdvi
2008-01-15 19:33 < ggreer> and that's it
2008-01-15 19:33 < Demi> to be honest, something like this you probably want it with you most of the time. inductive power would be cool
2008-01-15 19:33 < SNORLAX> wireless is totally overrated
2008-01-15 19:34 < ggreer> yeah, it's so small that you can take it everywhere
2008-01-15 19:34 < Demi> SNORLAX - it has a rating?
2008-01-15 19:34 < Krimpet> no FireWire? I thought that was apple's pet standard
2008-01-15 19:34 < Xihix> so, can anyone sum up all the negative things about the macbook air?
2008-01-15 19:34 < shimgray> Demi: Maybe they should stick to the markets where inductive power is known to be reliable