freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-15 12:50 < Guest79> does anyone actually know how much money goes to artist when you buy stuff off itunes?
2008-01-15 12:51 < Sfan00> And the revenue from 'internet tickets' would at least help meet some of the looses the clearly organised gnags cause to content providers
2008-01-15 12:51 < Orderinchaos> I have sent loads of australian stuff to people in europe and america who otherwise would never have the chance to hear it, and it often does result in sales.
2008-01-15 12:51 < kenlyric> Guest79: depends on their contract.
2008-01-15 12:51 < kenlyric> but it's the same as if you buy a CD.
2008-01-15 12:51 < Orderinchaos> incidentally with a Warner Music distribution contract if you bought an album in a store for $29.95, the artist got 79c.
2008-01-15 12:51 < Demi> Guest79 - except for exceptional circumstances, it's unusualy for the artist to get much out of any music sale
2008-01-15 12:51 < Sfan00> OrderinChoas; That suck
2008-01-15 12:51 < Sfan00> only 79c !!!!
2008-01-15 12:51 < Sfan00> :O
2008-01-15 12:51 < brown_cat> stupid writers wanting 2.5 cents from online sales
2008-01-15 12:51 < brown_cat> they want so much
2008-01-15 12:52 < kenlyric> they should just work in the salt mines
2008-01-15 12:52 < brown_cat> stupid whining bitches
2008-01-15 12:52 < kenlyric> and shut up
2008-01-15 12:52 < Orderinchaos> the ones I know who make more (and I happily buy their stuff) own their own record company, have independent distribution channels and use local managers.
2008-01-15 12:52 < Sfan00> Remind me why I try and find independent labels that value thier artists?
2008-01-15 12:52 < kenlyric> brown_cat: don't forget the 4c they want from DVDs
2008-01-15 12:52 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-01-15 12:52 < Sfan00> Actually writers have a point
2008-01-15 12:52 < Demi> even at 79c, that will often be eaten away by advances and cost offsets toward the band's share of recording and production and whatnot
2008-01-15 12:52 < brown_cat> kenlyric: the real question is, how will we cut a cent coin in half xD
2008-01-15 12:52 < Orderinchaos> (own their own record company *or* have a good deal with someone else who does)
2008-01-15 12:52 < kenlyric> brown_cat: only sell evens
2008-01-15 12:52 < Demi> writers are short-sighted, they and the production companies are fighting over scraps
2008-01-15 12:52 < Orderinchaos> john butler trio for example have several artists on their label's roster
2008-01-15 12:53 < brown_cat> kenlyric: but, what if they don't sell evens?
2008-01-15 12:53 < quanticle> brown_cat: I don't know. I also don't know how gas station expect 9/10s of a cent for gas
2008-01-15 12:53 < kenlyric> Demi: scraps is what they live by.
2008-01-15 12:53 < Demi> and i have a feeling the production companies, which these days (unlike the last WGA strike IIRC) are all owned by real companies
2008-01-15 12:53 < Orderinchaos> brown_cat: you mean how will we cut a 5c coin into tenths :P
2008-01-15 12:53 < brown_cat> xF
2008-01-15 12:53 < brown_cat> xD
2008-01-15 12:53 < brown_cat> xD
2008-01-15 12:53 < Demi> kenlyric - i mean broadcast TV is over anyway
2008-01-15 12:53 < Sfan00> Well yeah
2008-01-15 12:53 < Orderinchaos> in new zealand they don't even have 5c coins any more
2008-01-15 12:53 < Demi> WGA is really just accelerating their own demise
2008-01-15 12:53 < Sfan00> Internet shows ARE the future
2008-01-15 12:53 < kenlyric> Demi: TV isn't really where the meat of this strike will come
2008-01-15 12:53 < brown_cat> Orderinchaos: i want to pay 99c one day with 4 x 1 cent coins and the rest 10c coins xd
2008-01-15 12:53 < Guest76> Canada almost had a 'iPod' tax but lucky a court said it was BS and canceled it
2008-01-15 12:54 < Orderinchaos> what I find funny is they cancelled the golden globes, might yet cancel the oscars, and nobody really cares all that much
2008-01-15 12:54 < Demi> unless they plan on striking deals with Internet producers or video game publishers
2008-01-15 12:54 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-01-15 12:54 < brown_cat> Steve demoed starting a movie just after having rented it. Note he has an extremely fast connection. The movie was downloading at 1% per second.
2008-01-15 12:54 < kenlyric> Demi: not really.
2008-01-15 12:54 < brown_cat> o_O
2008-01-15 12:54 < kenlyric> Demi: exactly.
2008-01-15 12:54 < Demi> right, but those aren't WGA jobs, in fact a lot of writers are doing that *now*, without collective bargaining
2008-01-15 12:54 < Orderinchaos> guest76: similar to the tape/blank CD tax?
2008-01-15 12:54 < Demi> to make ends meet
2008-01-15 12:54 < Guest76> 1% per second ^_^ I want those speeds
2008-01-15 12:54 < Guest76> yeah like a blank cd tacx
2008-01-15 12:54 < Sfan00> Guest76: Well to be fair a blank tape tax isn't a bad idea
2008-01-15 12:54 < kenlyric> they aren't WGA jobs *yet*
2008-01-15 12:54 < Demi> they're just working towards the demise of their own union, without a replacement on the horizon
2008-01-15 12:55 < Sfan00> Provided it's balanced by cut's in prices elsewhere
2008-01-15 12:55 < quanticle> Guest76: Depends on the size of the file you're downloading, now doesn't it
2008-01-15 12:55 < Guest76> but a tax on DAPs? that's a little silly
2008-01-15 12:55 < Sfan00> No different to me form paying a TV licence :)
2008-01-15 12:55 < Guest76> most films are <=1GB
2008-01-15 12:55 < Demi> user-generated content threatens writers disproportionately
2008-01-15 12:55 < quanticle> Guest76: 1% per sec is a pretty shitty rate if you're downloading a word doc
2008-01-15 12:55 * Fabexplosive back
2008-01-15 12:55 < Sfan00> And in the UK everoyne nominaly pays thier TV licence fee :)
2008-01-15 12:56 < Guest76> The UK also has CCTV over every mile of London
2008-01-15 12:56 < Demi> quanticle - i dunno, some of those word docs are pretty hefty
2008-01-15 12:56 * brown_cat hugs Fabexplosive
2008-01-15 12:56 < Sfan00> How would a media production charge on ISPS , content player producers and media firm be different..
2008-01-15 12:56 < kenlyric> and the idea that non-studio internet fare is eating into profits is absurd. What is happening is that *studios* are increasing internet output because they have to pay writers and actors and directors less when they do.
2008-01-15 12:56 * quanticle would like to see word try to choke down a multi-gigabyte document
2008-01-15 12:56 < brown_cat> Sfan00: be honest, am I the only person who giggles when the name cumbria is said?
2008-01-15 12:56 < brown_cat> xD
2008-01-15 12:56 < brown_cat> sounds like a cheap porno xD
2008-01-15 12:57 < Guest76> cumbria... O.o?
2008-01-15 12:57 < Sfan00> brown_cat: You don't want to know about Cumbria porn ;)
2008-01-15 12:57 < brown_cat> it is an area
2008-01-15 12:57 < brown_cat> O_o\
2008-01-15 12:57 * Fabexplosive hey brown_cat
2008-01-15 12:57 * Fabexplosive is huggled
2008-01-15 12:57 < Sfan00> Seriouslyt
2008-01-15 12:57 < brown_cat> Sfan00: they cut analogue tv in cumbria
2008-01-15 12:57 < Sfan00> you don't ;)
2008-01-15 12:57 < Sfan00> Yes
2008-01-15 12:57 < brown_cat> Sfan00 knows why?
2008-01-15 12:57 < brown_cat> you dirty, dirty person
2008-01-15 12:57 < Sfan00> In one samll town Analouge TV has been replaced by Digital
2008-01-15 12:57 < quanticle> brown_cat: Really? We don't get our analog tv cut until 2009
2008-01-15 12:57 < Guest76> Feb 19th 2009, all anolog TV goes off the air in the starts
2008-01-15 12:57 < Guest76> *states
2008-01-15 12:58 < brown_cat> "Photo screensavers can be retrieved from .Mac web galleries" amazing xD
2008-01-15 12:58 < The359> and half the opopulation will be running around going "OMG WHAT HAPPENED TO MY TV?!"
2008-01-15 12:58 < Sfan00> Digital Terrestrial conversion in the UK is proceedign in a phased approach to give time for sets to be converted and so on
2008-01-15 12:58 < kenlyric> it's amazing the rocks people can live under.
2008-01-15 12:58 < Demi> want to take bets on that date?
2008-01-15 12:58 < Sfan00> To be fair the Uk is handling the switch far better than the US
2008-01-15 12:58 < kenlyric> Demi: they have no extensions left.
2008-01-15 12:59 < kenlyric> and they've sold off the airwaves already.
2008-01-15 12:59 < brown_cat> Sfan00: go figure! xD
2008-01-15 12:59 < kenlyric> it'd take a lot of push to extend it any further.
2008-01-15 12:59 < brown_cat> Sfan00: what is that switch over to digital robot called?
2008-01-15 12:59 * Demi shrugs, nevertheless
2008-01-15 12:59 < kenlyric> Sfan00: to be fair, the UK has lot fewere TVs
2008-01-15 12:59 < Sfan00> Digit-Al?
2008-01-15 12:59 < brown_cat> his name is a joke or sometrhing
2008-01-15 12:59 < kenlyric> and a lot fewer people
2008-01-15 12:59 < brown_cat> DIGIT AL!!! YES!!
2008-01-15 12:59 < brown_cat> hahahaa
2008-01-15 12:59 < kenlyric> and a lot fewer TV networks.
2008-01-15 12:59 < Sfan00> kenlyric: true
2008-01-15 12:59 < Demi> i wouldn't exactly be surprised if that push appeared
2008-01-15 12:59 < Guest76> *Feb 17th 2009
2008-01-15 12:59 < Guest76> my bad
2008-01-15 13:00 * quanticle wants to have a look at Digit Al
2008-01-15 13:00 < kenlyric> Demi: the push would have come already.
2008-01-15 13:00 < Sfan00> The US also has the issue that some people still use 40 years old sets :O
2008-01-15 13:00 < Demi> Sfan00 - why is that an issue?
2008-01-15 13:00 < kenlyric> before the governmnet auctioned off the spectrum in january.
2008-01-15 13:00 < Guest76> yeah... will enough static to kill a small mammal
2008-01-15 13:00 < Sfan00> Older tech might not be covertable
2008-01-15 13:00 < quanticle> kenlyric: That's because no one really knows yet that the TVs will go off in '09
2008-01-15 13:00 < Guest76> the old tvs.. crazy static
2008-01-15 13:00 < Sfan00> In the UK's the Digital Switchover's been planned since at least 1997
2008-01-15 13:01 < Guest76> o rly?
2008-01-15 13:01 < quanticle> Sfan00: They're promising subsidized external converter boxes
2008-01-15 13:01 < Sfan00> and has had massive publicity
2008-01-15 13:01 < kenlyric> quanticle: and the fix for it is a converter that the government will give you for free.
2008-01-15 13:01 < Sfan00> quanticle: In the UK ?
2008-01-15 13:01 < kenlyric> Sfan00: it's been planned here for a long time too. Keeps getting extended.
2008-01-15 13:01 < Sfan00> That's a new one on me
2008-01-15 13:01 < kenlyric> but OUT OF EXTENSIONS
2008-01-15 13:01 < Sfan00> The concern in the UK, is about vunerable groups
2008-01-15 13:01 < quanticle> Sfan00: Really? You don't get converter boxes subsidized?
2008-01-15 13:01 < Guest76> Get your free converter coupons: https://www.dtv2009.gov/ApplyCoupon.aspx
2008-01-15 13:01 < Guest76> Fresh
2008-01-15 13:01 < Guest76> hot
2008-01-15 13:01 < Sfan00> And of course in the US there is the issue of what happens to the EBS system
2008-01-15 13:02 < Guest76> nice and easy
2008-01-15 13:02 < kenlyric> Sfan00: no, in the US the convert box is subsidized.
2008-01-15 13:02 < kenlyric> it's part of the bill.
2008-01-15 13:02 < Sfan00> because a digital infrastructure is much more susceptible to intteruption
2008-01-15 13:02 < Demi> Guest76 - are there actually things i can buy with those coupons now?
2008-01-15 13:02 < kenlyric> i'm waiting for TV viruses
2008-01-15 13:02 < Demi> yes, also digital TV sucks ass
2008-01-15 13:02 < Guest76> demi: no, I don't think so
2008-01-15 13:02 < Sfan00> That said digital systms could be programmed to overide to a EBS feed though :)
2008-01-15 13:02 < quanticle> Sfan00: Huh, the justification for the switchover to digital in the states was to free up spectrum for emergency providers
2008-01-15 13:03 < Sfan00> Yes, but that's not EBS
2008-01-15 13:03 < Sfan00> :)
2008-01-15 13:03 < Sfan00> The other reason for digital TV in the US , is the ugly spectre of rights managment. aka brodcast flag
2008-01-15 13:03 < Sfan00> :(
2008-01-15 13:03 < Guest76> quanticle: why? don't we already have a emergency spectrum?
2008-01-15 13:03 < Sfan00> Until now , you cna quite happily tape from analouge TV
2008-01-15 13:04 < quanticle> Guest76: Not enough bandwidth. After 9/11 emergency providers were looking for more
2008-01-15 13:04 < Sfan00> Under digital you might not be able to 'timeshift' anymore ( case in point Tvio)
2008-01-15 13:04 < kenlyric> Sfan00: tape?
2008-01-15 13:04 < kenlyric> again, what century are you typing from?
2008-01-15 13:04 < Demi> Sfan00 - depends on your generation of VCR
2008-01-15 13:04 < Guest76> yeah Tivo+DVRs+VHS Tapes ^_^
2008-01-15 13:04 < brown_cat> xD
2008-01-15 13:04 * quanticle still tapes
2008-01-15 13:04 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-01-15 13:04 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:04 * kenlyric wants your time machine
2008-01-15 13:04 < brown_cat> I haven't used anything other then memory stick pro's for the past 6 months
2008-01-15 13:04 < kenlyric> really.
2008-01-15 13:04 < Guest76> tape is still used in server backups and stuff it's not dead
2008-01-15 13:04 * brown_cat is very proud ^_^
2008-01-15 13:04 < brown_cat> yep
2008-01-15 13:05 < kenlyric> grats on finding blank VHS
2008-01-15 13:05 < Guest76> is/was there a blank VHS tax?
2008-01-15 13:05 < kenlyric> Guest76: VHS is. At least around here.
2008-01-15 13:05 < Demi> for me the issue is more that i have a bunch of stuff on tape
2008-01-15 13:05 < quanticle> Given that I don't have a DVR, and I actually know how to program my VCR, I'd say I have no reason to upgrade
2008-01-15 13:05 < Guest76> kenlyric: where is here?
2008-01-15 13:05 < kenlyric> maybe walmart still sells them
2008-01-15 13:05 < Demi> quanticle - if there's ever anything to watch, you'll be all set
2008-01-15 13:06 < quanticle> brown_cat: How do your record from TV to memory stick
2008-01-15 13:06 < Pirata_> Hi
2008-01-15 13:06 < Sfan00> I mean knelyric: I meant 'tape' as a genric term
2008-01-15 13:06 < Guest76> well pirata
2008-01-15 13:06 < kenlyric> "Fox wanted to make great movies, and get it into as many people's hands as possible. Consumers wanted the same thing"
2008-01-15 13:06 < kenlyric> that's an amazing quote.
2008-01-15 13:06 < Guest76> *welcome
2008-01-15 13:06 < Sfan00> It could be to disk, tape, Holo-cube etc...
2008-01-15 13:06 < kenlyric> Consumers DO want Fox to make great movies....
2008-01-15 13:06 < Guest76> Holo-cube ^_____^
2008-01-15 13:06 < Sfan00> LOL
2008-01-15 13:06 < brown_cat> quanticle: I can watch tv on my pc. if it is something important (HD) i will hook my camera upto the tv and record
2008-01-15 13:06 < quanticle> Demi: Heh. True. Currently the only things I tape are soccer games that appear late at night, or when I'm at work
2008-01-15 13:07 < Demi> i don't think consumers in general want great movies
2008-01-15 13:07 < Guest76> Fox cut Firefly, they fail
2008-01-15 13:07 < Sfan00> They also wan Fox News to be truthful , but wil that happen?
2008-01-15 13:07 < Demi> consumers want two and a half men and according to jim
2008-01-15 13:07 < Guest76> jim lies
2008-01-15 13:07 < quanticle> brown_cat: What kind of TV tuner card do you have?
2008-01-15 13:08 < kenlyric> why do all these ugly comedians get attractive, bitchy wives?
2008-01-15 13:08 < IceKarma> Demi, I have a VCR pretty much just to play a certain movie, occasionally
2008-01-15 13:08 < Demi> people don't want to see unattractive women on TV for the most part
2008-01-15 13:08 < Guest76> true
2008-01-15 13:08 < Demi> IceKarma - I assume it's Brazil?
2008-01-15 13:08 < IceKarma> Demi, for the movie in question, the only other format available is Laserdisc, and it's scarcer than hens' teeth
2008-01-15 13:08 < LuciferTiger> bitchy hot gals dig money and sense of humor
2008-01-15 13:08 < Demi> that still doesn't explain jim belushi!
2008-01-15 13:09 < Demi> ba-dump-bump
2008-01-15 13:09 < IceKarma> Demi, The Wizard of Speed and Time
2008-01-15 13:09 < kenlyric> that doesn't explain a lot of them.
2008-01-15 13:09 < Zach> do they still make ati all in wonder cards?
2008-01-15 13:09 < Demi> IceKarma - ah okay
2008-01-15 13:09 < Guest76> LaserDisc was so getto
2008-01-15 13:09 < IceKarma> Guest76, "ghetto"
2008-01-15 13:09 < quanticle> Guest76: By getto, you mean awesome, right
2008-01-15 13:09 < brown_cat> quanticle: avermedia hybrid pci hd tv card
2008-01-15 13:09 < Guest76> yes
2008-01-15 13:09 < Guest76> yes
2008-01-15 13:09 < kenlyric> I still treasure Kevin Smith's rant against DVD on the chasing amy? DVD
2008-01-15 13:09 < kenlyric> it was just a direct copy from the laserdisc version.
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> OMG!
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> OMG!
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> quanticle: avermedia hybrid pci hd tv card
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> quanticle: avermedia hybrid pci hd tv card
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> OMG!
2008-01-15 13:10 < IceKarma> given how shitty my VHS copy of WoSaT is I'd _love_ a DVD copy
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> A NEW APPLE LAPTOP!!!
2008-01-15 13:10 < quanticle> brown_cat: Linux compatible?
2008-01-15 13:10 < IceKarma> but that's just never going to happen
2008-01-15 13:10 < Guest76> O_o?
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> As you know, Apple makes the best notebooks in the industry. Today, we are introducing a third kind of notebook. It's called the MacBook Air
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> "The World's Thinnest Notebook"
2008-01-15 13:10 < Demi> IceKarma - i transfer some of those things to DVD-R
2008-01-15 13:10 < kenlyric> grats on failing to keep 4 out of 4 secrets today.
2008-01-15 13:10 < brown_cat> I am having a mental orgasm!!
2008-01-15 13:10 < kenlyric> that's a new apple record.
2008-01-15 13:10 < Demi> but if i actually wanted to do all of it it would be a big project
2008-01-15 13:10 < quanticle> Holy crap
2008-01-15 13:11 < Guest76> will said apple lappy rip blueray discs?
2008-01-15 13:11 < kenlyric> probably not.
2008-01-15 13:11 < Demi> we've had a lot of problems with our macbook pro
2008-01-15 13:11 < IceKarma> Demi, a friend of mine has the LD of it, but I've only been after him to rip&encode for, oh, a decade now >.<
2008-01-15 13:11 < brown_cat> We thought 3 lbs is a good target weight, but there was too much compromise with the other features
2008-01-15 13:11 < Demi> if i have anything to say about it, we won't be getting another one
2008-01-15 13:11 < brown_cat> Most people think of Sony TZ series when they think of thin notebooks. Competition specs: 3 lbs, .8-1.2 inches, 11 or 12" display, miniature keyboard, and slower processor.
2008-01-15 13:11 < kenlyric> bah
2008-01-15 13:11 < Guest76> ... lol
2008-01-15 13:12 < brown_cat> i am ssooooooo happy :D
2008-01-15 13:12 < kenlyric> just make these fuckers open up the feed themselves.
2008-01-15 13:12 < Guest76> 'the feed'?
2008-01-15 13:12 < kenlyric> http://www.macrumorslive.com/
2008-01-15 13:12 < Guest76> ah
2008-01-15 13:13 < brown_cat> MacBook Air is 0.16" to 0.76". The thickest part of the MacBook Air is thinner than the thinnest part of the Sony. It fits inside a envelope
2008-01-15 13:13 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-01-15 13:13 < quanticle> Fits inside an envelope?
2008-01-15 13:13 < kenlyric> that's a pretty stupid analogy.
2008-01-15 13:13 < quanticle> I have to see it to believe it
2008-01-15 13:13 < kenlyric> envelopes can be any size
2008-01-15 13:13 < brown_cat> Magnetic latch, 13.3" widescreen display
2008-01-15 13:13 < quanticle> kenlyric: True, my old notebook fit inside and envelope too
2008-01-15 13:13 < Guest76> lol e
2008-01-15 13:13 < Guest76> *envelope
2008-01-15 13:13 < Demi> it fits inside a box, too
2008-01-15 13:14 < kenlyric> smaller than a breadbox?
2008-01-15 13:14 < Guest76> bread can be any size
2008-01-15 13:14 < brown_cat> display is LED backlit. iSight is built-in. MacBook-like keyboard, but with an ambient light sensor
2008-01-15 13:14 < kenlyric> breadbox, woman with a yeast infection?
2008-01-15 13:14 < quanticle> awesome
2008-01-15 13:14 < quanticle> Any price details
2008-01-15 13:14 * Juliancolton notices how boring this conversation is, and quits
2008-01-15 13:14 < Guest76> ambient light sensor, sounds useful
2008-01-15 13:15 < Demi> macbooks already have that
2008-01-15 13:15 < quanticle> Multi-touch
2008-01-15 13:15 < brown_cat> macbook pro's do
2008-01-15 13:15 * brown_cat slaps Demi
2008-01-15 13:15 < quanticle> Also expected
2008-01-15 13:15 < brown_cat> get your facts right
2008-01-15 13:15 < Demi> apple fanboys are really irritating
2008-01-15 13:15 < IceKarma> multi-touch?
2008-01-15 13:15 < IceKarma> Demi, s/apple//
2008-01-15 13:15 < brown_cat> Demi: hahahaa, I am excited :D
2008-01-15 13:16 < Guest76> multi-touch, are we talking about porn again?
2008-01-15 13:16 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:16 < Demi> IceKarma - no, there's definitely a rank
2008-01-15 13:16 < IceKarma> Demi, ah, I missed the implicit "among fanboys" ;)
2008-01-15 13:16 < kenlyric> macbook and macbook pro. What makes it pro? about $1000
2008-01-15 13:16 < brown_cat> Move a window by double-tap and move. Rotate a photo by pivoting your index finger around your thumb. Of course, pinch-zoom.
2008-01-15 13:16 < brown_cat> How did we fit a Mac in here?
2008-01-15 13:16 < kenlyric> man, someone shut him up
2008-01-15 13:16 < Demi> kenlyric - well, and the ambient light sensor, apparently
2008-01-15 13:16 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:16 < kenlyric> he's just fucking pasting the entire stream.
2008-01-15 13:17 < Guest76> this is true
2008-01-15 13:17 < quanticle> kenlyric: Calm down. It'll be over soon
2008-01-15 13:17 < brown_cat> 1.8" Hard Drive
2008-01-15 13:17 < Guest76> **waits for apple fanboy thread to end**
2008-01-15 13:17 < kenlyric> he's also slower than the stream
2008-01-15 13:17 < quanticle> Useless unless he posts hard drive capacity
2008-01-15 13:17 * Orderinchaos is not an apple fanboy
2008-01-15 13:17 < brown_cat> kenlyric: do you want me to go faster then it?
2008-01-15 13:17 < Guest76> plz
2008-01-15 13:18 * brown_cat stops to make the bitches happy
2008-01-15 13:18 < Guest76> one big copy pasta and get it over with
2008-01-15 13:18 < kenlyric> steve jobs needs to shave.
2008-01-15 13:18 < kenlyric> he looks like a homeless man
2008-01-15 13:18 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:18 * quanticle waits for pricing info
2008-01-15 13:18 < Demi> kenlyric - he's hunted by genius
2008-01-15 13:18 < brown_cat> kenlyric: he is poor
2008-01-15 13:18 < Guest76> I was talking to someone about that yesterday
2008-01-15 13:18 < kenlyric> hey maybe needs to realize he's not brett favre, and that look just doesn't work.
2008-01-15 13:18 < Demi> quanticle - "about 30% more than its worth"
2008-01-15 13:18 < kenlyric> the "I shaved two days ago" look works when you're 20, not 50.
2008-01-15 13:19 < Guest76> yup
2008-01-15 13:19 < quanticle> Demi: Heh, knowing that this is a new model, make it 50% and I might believe you
2008-01-15 13:19 < Guest76> well pill
2008-01-15 13:19 < Guest76> *welcome
2008-01-15 13:19 * Demi needs to shave
2008-01-15 13:19 < kenlyric> I like how apple makes $200 on each iphone
2008-01-15 13:19 < kenlyric> AFTER the $200 price drop.
2008-01-15 13:19 < Demi> i can't find my razor, and i don't like it anyway
2008-01-15 13:19 < Guest76> the iphone is a bitch
2008-01-15 13:19 < kenlyric> I mean, I 200% markup on hardware is pretty amazingly large BALLS
2008-01-15 13:19 < Guest76> b/c the firmware and bricking
2008-01-15 13:20 < Guest76> but the hardware is nice
2008-01-15 13:20 < Orderinchaos> I have my $79 2 gig mp3 player which I've taken all over the country with me, and I'm happy with it :D
2008-01-15 13:20 < Guest76> I just wish apple wasn't a nazi about it
2008-01-15 13:20 < Orderinchaos> works on standard triple-A battery and USB
2008-01-15 13:20 < Guest76> **yawn**
2008-01-15 13:20 < Orderinchaos> and is the size of my little finger
2008-01-15 13:20 < Orderinchaos> the display's kind of cute too :)
2008-01-15 13:21 < quanticle> Orderinchaos: Heh, creative MuVo?
2008-01-15 13:21 < Guest76> orderinchaos: one of those Creative Zen players
2008-01-15 13:21 < Guest76> ?
2008-01-15 13:21 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:21 < Orderinchaos> nah, some weird noname brand called SoniX.
2008-01-15 13:21 < Orderinchaos> but hey, it works :)
2008-01-15 13:21 < Guest76> O__o
2008-01-15 13:21 < Guest76> yup
2008-01-15 13:21 * quanticle has the SanDisk Sansa e280
2008-01-15 13:21 < quanticle> First 8-gig flash based player on the market
2008-01-15 13:22 < Guest76> OGG > MP3
2008-01-15 13:23 < quanticle> Guest76: Yeah, too bad there aren't any hardware ogg vorbis decoders
2008-01-15 13:23 < kenlyric> don't sit on this shitt.
2008-01-15 13:23 < Guest76> ?
2008-01-15 13:23 < quanticle> kenlyric: Wrong window?
2008-01-15 13:23 < kenlyric> no
2008-01-15 13:24 < juxo> hi. is there a standard mechanism for requesting deletion of redirects?
2008-01-15 13:24 < kenlyric> apple's new notebook. Looks like it might crack pretty easily
2008-01-15 13:24 < Guest76> joxo: you takling about wikipedia or html?
2008-01-15 13:24 < Demi> juxo - yes
2008-01-15 13:24 < juxo> kenlyric: too bad you've got apple. they're all a lot rotten
2008-01-15 13:25 < Guest76> lol, puns
2008-01-15 13:25 < Triona> juxo: some of them can be speedied
2008-01-15 13:25 < juxo> Demi: I looked around wikipedia: space and found nothing
2008-01-15 13:25 < kenlyric> badly translated puns
2008-01-15 13:25 < quanticle> kenlyric: Heh, true. Also, there's no optical drive, so if you want to burn a CD on the road you're SOL
2008-01-15 13:25 < Demi> juxo - [[WP:RFD]]
2008-01-15 13:25 < juxo> Demi: ploxx
2008-01-15 13:25 < kenlyric> "borrow" a Mac or PCs optical drive. ;)
2008-01-15 13:25 < kenlyric> lol... WARBURNING
2008-01-15 13:25 < Guest76> or make a ISO and ftp it to a compy with a burner
2008-01-15 13:26 < juxo> Demi: I'll study that. ploxx again
2008-01-15 13:26 < Demi> depending what you want with your laptop, leaving out the optical drive makes sense
2008-01-15 13:26 < Guest76> ...
2008-01-15 13:26 < kenlyric> I have a thin toshiba from ages ago, and when the external battery is off it's very light. I like it very much for writing.
2008-01-15 13:26 < Demi> i'm more likely to want to watch a DVD "on the road" than burn a CD, though
2008-01-15 13:27 < quanticle> Demi: True, but an optical drive is one of those things that you don't miss until you need it
2008-01-15 13:27 < Guest76> so true
2008-01-15 13:27 < kenlyric> the toshiba also had no optical drive built in.
2008-01-15 13:27 < quanticle> $1800 for the damned thing
2008-01-15 13:27 < kenlyric> doesn't mean you had to live without an optical drive
2008-01-15 13:27 < Guest76> toshiba = fail
2008-01-15 13:27 < quanticle> >.<
2008-01-15 13:27 < brown_cat> 1800
2008-01-15 13:27 < brown_cat> overpriced
2008-01-15 13:27 < brown_cat> booo
2008-01-15 13:27 < Pilotguy> SEX TALK TIME!!!!
2008-01-15 13:27 < Guest76> there are external opitcal drives
2008-01-15 13:28 < kenlyric> will they SHIP them in envelopes?
2008-01-15 13:28 < kenlyric> ;)
2008-01-15 13:28 < Guest76> that had nothing to do with sex
2008-01-15 13:28 < brown_cat> Pilotguy: HI SEXY!!!
2008-01-15 13:28 < quanticle> Pilotguy: This is #wikipeida, not #wikisex
2008-01-15 13:28 < mavhk> yes, inside a giant box
2008-01-15 13:28 * Pilotguy sets brown_cat on fire
2008-01-15 13:28 < Guest76> is there a #wikisex?
2008-01-15 13:28 < Guest76> lol fire
2008-01-15 13:28 * brown_cat sits on Pilotguy's lap
2008-01-15 13:28 < Demi> quanticle - true. i actually was given a disc of keys at work last week and couldn't check them until i got home, because the CD drive for my laptop is in the dock
2008-01-15 13:29 < Guest76> docks are so ghetto
2008-01-15 13:29 < kenlyric> there is if you click the link to #wikisex
2008-01-15 13:29 < Pilotguy> /who #wikisex
2008-01-15 13:29 < quanticle> Demi: its like the issue of the original imacs lacking a floppy drive
2008-01-15 13:29 < Cyrius> quanticle: except floppies were already mostly useless on macs at the time
2008-01-15 13:29 < Demi> Guest76 - why's that? (not that i care, i didn't decide to buy this laptop or anything)
2008-01-15 13:30 < mavhk> who uses cds anymore now usb sticks are so cheap
2008-01-15 13:30 < kenlyric> it's not really the same thing, since an external drive is available.
2008-01-15 13:30 < Guest76> Demi: dock are silly b/c a lappy is for portablity, and a dock confines it to one place.
2008-01-15 13:30 < quanticle> Cyrius: Right, because macs would format floppies to be different and incompatible with PCs
2008-01-15 13:30 < kenlyric> CDs are just too thick for a thin notebook.
2008-01-15 13:31 < kenlyric> Guest76: you aren't using your dock correctly then.
2008-01-15 13:31 < Guest76> I don't have a dock
2008-01-15 13:31 < quanticle> kenlyric: That's what they said for not having floppy disc drives on the original imac
2008-01-15 13:31 < mavhk> I hear with a modern dock you can also undock the laptop
2008-01-15 13:31 < Orderinchaos> i'm heading off guys :) will cya later! (its 3:30am and body is whinging at me)
2008-01-15 13:31 < kenlyric> mavhk: lies
2008-01-15 13:31 < Guest76> bye
2008-01-15 13:31 < Cyrius> quanticle: um...no, because Macs didn't need floppies for OS installation purposes, which is pretty much what PCs were requiring them for
2008-01-15 13:31 < Guest76> floppies = ghetto
2008-01-15 13:31 < quanticle> Cyrius: The iMac came out post-Win98
2008-01-15 13:31 < Cyrius> that, and sneakernetting really small files
2008-01-15 13:31 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:31 < Demi> Guest76 - oh, i guess you didn't understand. you take it in and out of the dock.
2008-01-15 13:32 < quanticle> Cyrius: PCs weren't using floppies of OS installations either then
2008-01-15 13:32 * Orderinchaos waves to all and sundry, with a smile for those he knows
2008-01-15 13:32 < Guest76> there is a #wikisex, there are two ppl in it
2008-01-15 13:32 < Cyrius> quanticle: there was still plenty of "reboot from the floppy" out there
2008-01-15 13:32 < Guest76> lol
2008-01-15 13:33 < quanticle> Cyrius: That's the main issue with the iMac lacking a floppy. This was before USB sticks, so there was no good way of sneakernetting small files
2008-01-15 13:33 < Pilotguy> Guest76- One of them must be Schroeder then
2008-01-15 13:33 < Guest76> pilotguy: yeah, the other was me
2008-01-15 13:33 < Orderinchaos> y'all should get a lappy 386 :P
2008-01-15 13:33 < Pilotguy> figures
2008-01-15 13:33 < Guest76> quanticle: FTP
2008-01-15 13:33 < quanticle> Guest76: From Windows to Mac?
2008-01-15 13:33 < Schroeder> hmm?
2008-01-15 13:34 < mavhk> quanticle: it was an iMac, you used the i
2008-01-15 13:34 < Guest76> yeah I guest
2008-01-15 13:34 < Orderinchaos> quanticle: yeah I used ftp quite a lot
2008-01-15 13:34 < Guest76> *guess
2008-01-15 13:34 < Schroeder> no, I'm not in "#wikisex"
2008-01-15 13:34 < quanticle> Guest76: Also, sneakernet, by defintion precludes an electronic network
2008-01-15 13:34 < Guest76> quanticle: ...
2008-01-15 13:34 < Cyrius> "So really, you'll be paying $700 for the MacBook air's super small size."
2008-01-15 13:34 < quanticle> mavhk: I didn't know iMacs had FTP software installed
2008-01-15 13:34 < kenlyric> I guess maybe celebrate the fact that it's not 1995 anymore?
2008-01-15 13:35 * Demi doesn't know how he's going to get his wordperfect document about mudkips to quanticle
2008-01-15 13:35 * Cyrius gives Demi a cookie
2008-01-15 13:35 < Orderinchaos> I was gonna say, I've been doing ftp as a file storage/transfer method since about 96 :P
2008-01-15 13:35 < Schroeder> people still use WordPerfect?
2008-01-15 13:35 < Guest76> safari should and the terminal does
2008-01-15 13:35 < Schroeder> Orderinchaos: sftp ftw, bitch
2008-01-15 13:35 * quanticle asks Demi to transcribe it over IRC
2008-01-15 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> hello all
2008-01-15 13:35 < Guest76> like every os ever has ftp in it
2008-01-15 13:35 * Ceiling_Cat just realized something
2008-01-15 13:35 < Demi> Guest76 - no
2008-01-15 13:35 < Cyrius> Guest76: there was no Safari or Terminal at the time
2008-01-15 13:35 < IceKarma> Schroeder, not just that, they still make it
2008-01-15 13:35 < mavhk> I use bittorrent now, it's self correcting
2008-01-15 13:35 < Pilotguy> Hello Ceiling_Cay
2008-01-15 13:35 < quanticle> Guest76: iMacs were pre-OSX
2008-01-15 13:35 < Pilotguy> Make that Ceiling_Cat
2008-01-15 13:35 < IceKarma> Schroeder, uh, I think it's the ashes of Corel that own it now
2008-01-15 13:35 < Pilotguy> What did you realize
2008-01-15 13:35 < Demi> Pre-Mac OS X there are a lot of "standard" things that didn't come with
2008-01-15 13:35 < kenlyric> there were rewritable CDs
2008-01-15 13:35 < Demi> thus, Fetch, and whatnot
2008-01-15 13:35 < Ceiling_Cat> Today is the michigan primary. The democrats really have no one to vote for, BUT they can vote in the republican primary
2008-01-15 13:35 < Schroeder> Ceiling_Cat: you're a powertripping abusive admin?
2008-01-15 13:36 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: yes =)
2008-01-15 13:36 < Orderinchaos> when I started using the net there was no netscape, we had this primitive thing called mosaic and with the dearth of web pages you usually had to go to gopher anyway.
2008-01-15 13:36 < Ceiling_Cat> Schroeder - consider this your one and only warning - no trolling
2008-01-15 13:36 < Orderinchaos> (does gopher even still exist?)
2008-01-15 13:36 < Guest76> yup
2008-01-15 13:36 < IceKarma> Orderinchaos, UMN shut down their root gopher servers :(
2008-01-15 13:36 < Demi> Orderinchaos - probably on campus networks, a little
2008-01-15 13:36 < Cyrius> Orderinchaos: I think I saw something about a major gopher server shutting down
2008-01-15 13:36 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - but think about it, Mitt Romney *has* to win
2008-01-15 13:36 < Cyrius> ...what IceKarma said, probably
2008-01-15 13:36 < Demi> and even then i'm guessing a lot of people use it through a web gateway or something
2008-01-15 13:36 < Ceiling_Cat> or he's as good as finished. And he has zero appeal to independents and liberals
2008-01-15 13:37 * Cyrius never really got gopher
2008-01-15 13:37 < Orderinchaos> I feel sorry for US people, I honestly don't know who I'd vote for if I lived there
2008-01-15 13:37 < Guest76> vote for wikipedia
2008-01-15 13:37 * quanticle tried to install Firefox on an OS9 iMac once. It was painful
2008-01-15 13:37 < Cyrius> we need a constitutionally-required "none of the above"
2008-01-15 13:37 < Guest76> it's a *real* democracy
2008-01-15 13:37 < mavhk> write in vote for colbert
2008-01-15 13:37 < Ceiling_Cat> I can't wait for him to lose - I detest him more than any of the others
2008-01-15 13:37 < Orderinchaos> wikimedia foundation needs to run an independent ticket for the US elections. you know like libertarians or whatever
2008-01-15 13:37 < Guest76> colbert left the race
2008-01-15 13:38 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: you detest him more than Giuliani? surely you jest
2008-01-15 13:38 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: You hate Romney more than Guliani?
2008-01-15 13:38 < kenlyric> Guest76: if you think Wikipedia is a real democracy, you don't know what democracy is.
2008-01-15 13:38 < Cyrius> wikipedia is a stubbornocracy
2008-01-15 13:38 < Ceiling_Cat> Guliani is a one-platform candidate, sure
2008-01-15 13:38 < kenlyric> it's an oligarchy, mostly. A republic without elected officials.
2008-01-15 13:38 * quanticle wonders, "Jimbo Wales for President"
2008-01-15 13:38 < mavhk> how do you do a write in vote on an evoting machine?
2008-01-15 13:38 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: he's a fascist!
2008-01-15 13:38 < IceKarma> mavhk, painfully
2008-01-15 13:38 < Guest76> kenlyric: it looks like a democracy, and most everyone is happy, things get done, and everything keeps moving toward progress.
2008-01-15 13:39 < Orderinchaos> colbert was in the race?
2008-01-15 13:39 < quanticle> Cyrius: Finally, someone calling a duck a duck
2008-01-15 13:39 < kenlyric> randy newman is still alive... there is no justice.
2008-01-15 13:39 < quanticle> kenlyric: Alive literally, or politically
2008-01-15 13:39 < Cyrius> quanticle: he's not even just a little bit duckish
2008-01-15 13:39 < kenlyric> Guest76: those aren't the defining points of a democracy.
2008-01-15 13:39 < Guest76> orderinchoas: for like a month
2008-01-15 13:39 < IceKarma> mavhk, but it doesn't matter, someone will just tweak the Access db to give whatever results they want anyway
2008-01-15 13:39 < quanticle> Cyrius: Fine, calling a hitler a hitler, if you will
2008-01-15 13:39 < Orderinchaos> I noticed this is the first US election larouche hasn't gone for the democratic primary.
2008-01-15 13:39 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - every time Romney opens his mouth, it's a lie
2008-01-15 13:39 < Cyrius> quanticle: ...maybe more of a mussolini
2008-01-15 13:39 < kenlyric> and it's not even a representative democracy because the users don't choose admins.
2008-01-15 13:39 < Guest76> kenlyric: so...
2008-01-15 13:39 < Schroeder> Ceiling_Cat: I fail to see how calling your "shoot first, ask questions later" approach towards accounts you claim are Aubrey sockpuppets (without providing justification to anyone) "abusive" constitutes "trolling"
2008-01-15 13:39 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: so...he's a politician? =)
2008-01-15 13:39 < Ceiling_Cat> and he's whipsawed 180 degrees on every issue
2008-01-15 13:40 < kenlyric> admins are chosen by voodoo, so it's theocracy
2008-01-15 13:40 < Guest76> the USA is a replubic anyway
2008-01-15 13:40 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: so...he's a politician?
2008-01-15 13:40 < Ionas_Freeman> Fuckabee I hope isn't winning
2008-01-15 13:40 < Orderinchaos> giuliani seemed to be a less than average mayor with some serious issues in his backyard until 9/11 from everything I've read... I still don't see why he's a national political figure.
2008-01-15 13:40 < Demi> a flip-flopper!
2008-01-15 13:40 < kenlyric> Guest76: everyone knows this.
2008-01-15 13:40 < quanticle> Cyrius: Yeah. He doesn't have the crazy racism that Hitler did. He's more a Musollini or Franco
2008-01-15 13:40 < Demi> Orderinchaos - no, a lot of people like what he did with new york
2008-01-15 13:40 < kenlyric> doesn't make wikipedia any more of a democracy
2008-01-15 13:40 < Ionas_Freeman> Fuckabee seems to be a fundamentalist with an agenda.
2008-01-15 13:40 < Guest76> some people forget
2008-01-15 13:40 < quanticle> Orderinchaos: He's the neo-con darling
2008-01-15 13:40 < Orderinchaos> could you just imagine President Huckabee?
2008-01-15 13:41 < kenlyric> how are admins chosen? other admins make them admins?
2008-01-15 13:41 < Guest76> >.<
2008-01-15 13:41 < mavhk> neo-con, the clue is in the name
2008-01-15 13:41 < Demi> new york was basically a toilet and he turned it into a nice clean mall; a lot of people preferred that.
2008-01-15 13:41 < ElbridgeGerry> The Air is frigging expensive.
2008-01-15 13:41 < Orderinchaos> (not even the man, just the sound of the title and name together.)
2008-01-15 13:41 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - bureaucrats make them
2008-01-15 13:41 < Ceiling_Cat> based on the requests-for-adminship page
2008-01-15 13:41 < Cyrius> mavhk: neo, meaning fucking crazy?
2008-01-15 13:41 < Orderinchaos> demi: wasn't he the mayor when the police were joining the kkk and shooting black guys though?
2008-01-15 13:41 < kenlyric> how are the bureaucrats chosen?
2008-01-15 13:41 < quanticle> Demi: At the cost of basically walling off minority and poor neighborhoods
2008-01-15 13:41 < Ceiling_Cat> requests-for-bureaucratship
2008-01-15 13:41 < Demi> yes, i'm summarizing
2008-01-15 13:41 < Orderinchaos> cyrius: isn't that what the neo- prefix normally means? :P
2008-01-15 13:41 < Cyrius> giuliani has even got the italian name to be a mussolini
2008-01-15 13:41 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: who approves those?
2008-01-15 13:42 < mavhk> and con, meaning to cheat
2008-01-15 13:42 < Guest76> neo = new
2008-01-15 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> bureaucrats make other bureaucrats
2008-01-15 13:42 < Demi> on the other hand, i do agree with some of the principles behind his cleanup, if not all of them
2008-01-15 13:42 < Orderinchaos> yes but in usage I mean
2008-01-15 13:42 < Guest76> neo-con = new-cheater
2008-01-15 13:42 < kenlyric> My first thought was he lied in every word, that hoary cripple.
2008-01-15 13:42 < Cyrius> oh, wait, neo-con; neo, meaning new; con, meaning scam or fraud
2008-01-15 13:42 < Orderinchaos> like neoliberals, neoconservatives, neonazis...
2008-01-15 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> in fact, whenever promoting someone to admin, I have to make a mental note *not* to check the 'make bureaucrat' box
2008-01-15 13:42 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: so, it's an oligarchy
2008-01-15 13:42 < Ionas_Freeman> My rule of thumb is: Never trust an establishment that cares not about its people but about power. Never never trust a religious one.
2008-01-15 13:42 < Demi> (and new york cops have been shooting black guys and doing other corrupt things for long before guiliani ever appeared on the scene)
2008-01-15 13:42 < Orderinchaos> who are all basically removed-from-reality ideologues pushing a barrow off a cliff
2008-01-15 13:42 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - no, it's a meritocracy
2008-01-15 13:43 < Orderinchaos> Ionas_Freeman: seems like a sound basis
2008-01-15 13:43 < quanticle> Demi: Right, but Guiliani (or, rather, Kerik) was practically encouraging them
2008-01-15 13:43 < mavhk> that's why they had to get 22 year olds to run iraq, anyone older realised their ideas were bullshit
2008-01-15 13:43 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: admittance into power is chosen only by those in power.
2008-01-15 13:43 < kenlyric> it's the definition of oligarchy.
2008-01-15 13:43 < kenlyric> *how* they choose is another matter.
2008-01-15 13:43 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - false. Anyone can comment on either an RFA or an RFB
2008-01-15 13:43 < Demi> quanticle - it's not something i really know deeply about.
2008-01-15 13:44 < Guest76> RFA? RFB?
2008-01-15 13:44 < Ceiling_Cat> RFA = requests for adminship; RFB = requests for bureaucratship
2008-01-15 13:44 < kenlyric> right, but they don't make the final decisions.
2008-01-15 13:44 < kenlyric> if they did, wikipedia would suck ass.
2008-01-15 13:44 < Demi> i was just summarizing that i don't think it's fair to say that guiliani didn't have any support or something before 9/11, he already had a serious reputation by then, and plenty of lauders
2008-01-15 13:44 < Demi> (lauders?)
2008-01-15 13:44 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - by your definition, then, any representative system of government is an oligarchy
2008-01-15 13:44 < kenlyric> (democracies suck ass, btw).
2008-01-15 13:44 < Ionas_Freeman> If Giuliani is a neocon, fuck him. we already have enough neo-slaves from Latin America that are tortured for cheap labor
2008-01-15 13:44 < Ceiling_Cat> which, frankly, turns common sense on its head
2008-01-15 13:45 < Orderinchaos> kenlyric: is there any democracies currently in existence in the world?
2008-01-15 13:45 < shimgray> Ceiling_Cat: and RFRB = requests for us to look at what we have become, dear god
2008-01-15 13:45 < Guest76> the US needs moar common sense
2008-01-15 13:45 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: no. In theory a representative government has its people in power chosen by people who aren't in power.
2008-01-15 13:45 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - but "they don't make the final decision"
2008-01-15 13:45 < Ionas_Freeman> Representative != democracy
2008-01-15 13:45 < shimgray> Orderinchaos: Depends how picky a definition you use :-)
2008-01-15 13:45 < Ceiling_Cat> therefore it's not a democracy
2008-01-15 13:45 < Ceiling_Cat> according to you
2008-01-15 13:45 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: right.
2008-01-15 13:45 < Orderinchaos> most are duoligocracies
2008-01-15 13:45 < kenlyric> it's a republic
2008-01-15 13:45 < Guest76> yeah, a democracy is more like wikipedia (at least the article pages)
2008-01-15 13:46 < Orderinchaos> you choose one of two oligarchies every 3 or 4 years
2008-01-15 13:46 < Ceiling_Cat> kenlyric - so as I said, according to your defintions, any represtnative system of govenrment is an oligarchy
2008-01-15 13:46 < Ionas_Freeman> Well, what's democratic is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_past_and_present_anarchist_communities
2008-01-15 13:46 < Orderinchaos> and have control of neither
2008-01-15 13:46 < Ceiling_Cat> which as I said, is simply not the way of things
2008-01-15 13:46 < Demi> Ceiling_Cat - kenlyric has a point, because in fact bureaucrats have "reserved the right" to ignore consensus in promotions and just decide on their own.
2008-01-15 13:46 < kenlyric> Ceiling_Cat: no, my definition about decisions making was in regard to democracy
2008-01-15 13:46 < Orderinchaos> (control, as a people or populus)
2008-01-15 13:46 < kenlyric> my defintion in regard to oligarchy was about how people in power were chosen.
2008-01-15 13:46 < kenlyric> two different topics.
2008-01-15 13:46 < Orderinchaos> then again if you believe the political compass I'm way left libertarian :P
2008-01-15 13:46 < Guest76> anarchism != democracy... y/n?
2008-01-15 13:46 < Ionas_Freeman> representative == oligarchy because the ruling establishment can do any thing "behind closed doors".
2008-01-15 13:46 < kenlyric> I'm not saying it's a bad thing.
2008-01-15 13:46 < Demi> if, however, bureaucrats followed hard and fast rules, they would be more like... i don't know the analogy. literal election bureaucrats, i guess.