freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-12 15:11 < morwen> Disagree
2008-01-12 15:11 < Triona> just like, in-depth star trek stuff has a better home at memory alpha
2008-01-12 15:11 < morwen> memory-alpha doesn't attemp to be a factual encyclopedia of star trek
2008-01-12 15:12 < morwen> it's a primarily in-universe resource
2008-01-12 15:12 < Triona> right. plots, etc are all in-universe information though
2008-01-12 15:12 < morwen> no
2008-01-12 15:12 < Triona> regardless of which perspective you present them from
2008-01-12 15:13 < Cyrius> right, deleting the plot summaries from shakespeare plays
2008-01-12 15:13 < Cyrius> god forbid anyone wants to know what the thing is about
2008-01-12 15:13 < morwen> there is a difference between "Bob was introduced in episode 5, as a shoe-shiner, who cleaned the shoes of the lead character. In episode 7, he is discovered to have been a spy on behalf of the evil empire." <- ok
2008-01-12 15:13 < Triona> I'm not saying that we don't need some coverage... what I'm debating is how much coverage we give
2008-01-12 15:14 < morwen> and "Bob spied on the lead character in 2123." <- in-universe, not ok
2008-01-12 15:14 < morwen> in fact that wouldn't even say lead character
2008-01-12 15:14 < morwen> i absolutely detest 99% of our fiction articles
2008-01-12 15:14 < NotACow> meh
2008-01-12 15:14 < NotACow> people are stupid.
2008-01-12 15:14 < Triona> ie, the difference between a paragraph about a episode and the whole script.
2008-01-12 15:14 < Cyrius> NotACow: do you have a point, or is it just a general statement?
2008-01-12 15:15 * bumm13 wishes simple things like connecting/disconnecting cables and cords didn't tire him out :(
2008-01-12 15:15 < morwen> Triona: a paragraph in in-universe style is worse than an excessively long over-analysis in out-of-universe style. length is not the only thing.
2008-01-12 15:15 < Triona> I certianly agree
2008-01-12 15:16 < morwen> good
2008-01-12 15:16 < morwen> right, next topic
2008-01-12 15:16 < Triona> but, an excessively long over-analysis needs to be summarized better
2008-01-12 15:16 < Triona> still
2008-01-12 15:16 < morwen> Triona: ah. Well, can I suggest you actually go for the hard problem of getting these people to change their writing style to something adequate
2008-01-12 15:16 < Cyrius> bumm13: I find spending a lot of time on fiddly bits tires me out more easily than gross manual labor
2008-01-12 15:16 < morwen> because they will end up being terser if they do that
2008-01-12 15:17 < morwen> anyway, new topic
2008-01-12 15:17 < morwen> cheese
2008-01-12 15:17 < morwen> what is your favourite type of cheese?
2008-01-12 15:17 < Triona> some of the cases, a whole article is counterproductive because it encourages expansion past manageability
2008-01-12 15:17 < Cyrius> bumm13: I assembled an elliptical trainer for my dad the other day, trying to get a few bolts in that didn't want to go was more exhausting than lifting 50 lb assemblies of tubular steel
2008-01-12 15:18 < Ceiling_Cat> morwen - Swiss
2008-01-12 15:18 < morwen> Ceiling_Cat: is it the holes that do it for you?
2008-01-12 15:18 < Ceiling_Cat> morwen - actually, I prefer irish swiss cheese in particular
2008-01-12 15:19 < Ceiling_Cat> it's god a nice, austere flavor
2008-01-12 15:19 < NotACow> Cyrius: just a statement
2008-01-12 15:19 < Ceiling_Cat> or flavour for you ;)
2008-01-12 15:19 < NotACow> cheese is alive.
2008-01-12 15:19 * Ceiling_Cat notes that we do not haven an article on [[Irish swiss cheese]]
2008-01-12 15:21 < bumm13> Cyrius: ah
2008-01-12 15:27 < Cyrius> cheesecat is somethinging your something
2008-01-12 15:29 < CTho> why is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:63.97.17.3 not banned?
2008-01-12 15:30 < party> CTho, hi
2008-01-12 15:30 < Cyrius> because wikipedia is imperfect
2008-01-12 15:30 < party> hmm
2008-01-12 15:30 < Cyrius> why do people ask questions that assume we're all-seeing and all-knowing?
2008-01-12 15:30 * party investigates 63.97.17.3
2008-01-12 15:30 < Cyrius> (and not lazy)
2008-01-12 15:30 < party> hmm
2008-01-12 15:31 < party> I strongly support a indefinite block on that IP
2008-01-12 15:31 < CTho> Cyrius: because those people are lazy and assume those here are not ;)
2008-01-12 15:31 < party> DNSBL confirms :)
2008-01-12 15:31 < Cyrius> party: eh?
2008-01-12 15:33 < party> i queried DNSBL on that IP
2008-01-12 15:34 < Cyrius> I wanted to know what it said
2008-01-12 15:34 < CTho> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:63.97.17.3 has been blocked before
2008-01-12 15:34 < party> hmm
2008-01-12 15:34 < party> TOR
2008-01-12 15:34 < Cyrius> blocked.
2008-01-12 15:34 < Cyrius> doubled the last block to 2 months
2008-01-12 15:34 < sunderland2006> these people are assembling an army of people to destroy wikipedia
2008-01-12 15:34 < sunderland2006> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#RED_ALERT
2008-01-12 15:34 < NotACow> sunderland2006: yay!
2008-01-12 15:35 < Cyrius> what, again?
2008-01-12 15:35 < NotACow> sunderland2006: where do i sign up?
2008-01-12 15:35 < CTho> Cyrius: see? being lazy and asking silly questions here worked ;)
2008-01-12 15:35 < sunderland2006> lol
2008-01-12 15:35 < Cyrius> CTho: yeah, that's the flaw in my complaint
2008-01-12 15:35 < sunderland2006> is anyone reading it
2008-01-12 15:36 < party> Sorbs list it
2008-01-12 15:36 < mavhk> you can't destroy wikipedia, it's where I keep all my stuff
2008-01-12 15:36 < Sceptre> lol at someone crying censorship when I remove his trolling from, wait for it, the Censorship Wikiproject's noticeboard
2008-01-12 15:36 < sunderland2006> lol
2008-01-12 15:37 < Sceptre> I mean... [[Special:Contributions/Mrmattkatt]]
2008-01-12 15:38 < Sceptre> look at the edit summaries and say to me it's not trolling
2008-01-12 15:41 < sunderland2006> what could they actually do?
2008-01-12 15:42 < Cyrius> nothing permanent
2008-01-12 15:42 < Cyrius> just waste our time
2008-01-12 15:42 < Cyrius> and make us look silly
2008-01-12 15:43 < NotACow> garp
2008-01-12 15:45 < sunderland2006> has this been added to the wikipedia article yet
2008-01-12 15:45 < Cyrius> no, and it would be stupid to do so
2008-01-12 15:45 < sunderland2006> ok
2008-01-12 15:45 < Triona> Hmm.. dug this up. http://www.inc.com/magazine/20060901/column-freedman.html
2008-01-12 15:46 < Triona> I don't completely agree, but it makes some very good points.
2008-01-12 15:46 < sunderland2006> so this thing isnt really serious
2008-01-12 15:47 < Cyrius> people make that sort of threat all the time
2008-01-12 15:48 < sunderland2006> who is this peewee sockpuppet person
2008-01-12 15:49 < Triona> The ones that actually can carry out threats like that do it first.
2008-01-12 15:49 < mavhk> the wisdom of the crowds only happens if they don't influence each other, they have to be independence assessments
2008-01-12 15:49 < Triona> Then they tell us about it.
2008-01-12 15:51 < sunderland2006> why did he post it on goodshopped35110's page not jwales'
2008-01-12 15:51 < Cyrius> the old "wikbot" was a real problem, and I don't recall that coming with threats
2008-01-12 15:52 * Fabexplosive gnight
2008-01-12 15:54 < sunderland2006> wikbot?
2008-01-12 16:04 < msikma> Hello
2008-01-12 16:04 < msikma> Does anyone know where I can request a page to be unlocked? (i.e. full protection removed)
2008-01-12 16:04 < Cometstyles> here
2008-01-12 16:05 < Messedrocker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RFPP
2008-01-12 16:10 < Doc_glasgow> And the drama continues? I mean, what's wrong with supporting Iraqi resistance fighters? That's what freedom is all about. [[Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:MQDuck/userboxes/Right To Resist]]
2008-01-12 16:11 < Messedrocker> reminds me of the napoleonic wars
2008-01-12 16:11 < Doc_glasgow> This user recognizes the right of Iraqis to resist occupation.
2008-01-12 16:11 < Messedrocker> where the countries were resisting napoleon in the name of la code napoléon
2008-01-12 16:11 < mavhk> those infoboxes are so passive agressive
2008-01-12 16:11 < mavhk> it's hilarious
2008-01-12 16:11 < Doc_glasgow> You realise the Nazi called the French resistance "terrorists"
2008-01-12 16:12 < ggreer> godwin
2008-01-12 16:12 < Doc_glasgow> ggreer: he's a terrorist too
2008-01-12 16:12 < mavhk> terrorists are armys without good PR
2008-01-12 16:12 < Messedrocker> mike godwin is no terrorwrist
2008-01-12 16:12 < sunderland2006> is he the lawyer
2008-01-12 16:13 < Doc_glasgow> yes
2008-01-12 16:13 < Doc_glasgow> and lawyers are all Nazis
2008-01-12 16:13 < morwen> Doc_glasgow: damn it i was about to call him a nazi
2008-01-12 16:13 < sunderland2006> this is the guy right
2008-01-12 16:13 < sunderland2006> Category:Wikipedia sockpuppets of PWeeHurman
2008-01-12 16:13 < morwen> or at least compare him to one
2008-01-12 16:13 < morwen> "compared to a nazi, mike godwin is nowhere near as evil"
2008-01-12 16:13 < mavhk> In a time where criminals are king, one man, in a world gone mad, can save us. Mike Godwin _is_ The Lawyer
2008-01-12 16:13 < Doc_glasgow> morwen: great minds think......
2008-01-12 16:14 < Doc_glasgow> morwen: great minds think......klike Hitler and the Nazis
2008-01-12 16:14 < Messedrocker> Doc_glasgow, I didn't know Mike Godwin was a fascist
2008-01-12 16:14 < Messedrocker> who advocates the gassing of Jews in Polish internment camps
2008-01-12 16:14 < Doc_glasgow> the fascists were not Nazis
2008-01-12 16:14 < Doc_glasgow> the facists were not (mainly) antisemitic
2008-01-12 16:14 < Messedrocker> nazis are fascist
2008-01-12 16:15 < Messedrocker> if you didn't know that, stop being an insensitive bastard who calls everyone nazis
2008-01-12 16:15 < Doc_glasgow> no
2008-01-12 16:15 < Messedrocker> it's extremely tasteless
2008-01-12 16:15 < mavhk> having a whole word for people who hate you seems....egotistical
2008-01-12 16:15 < ggreer> the main thing that separates terrorists from armies is that terrorists usually try to directly target civilians, while armies try not to (obviously there are exceptions, such as every army in africa)
2008-01-12 16:15 < Doc_glasgow> the fascists were Italian - and existed before the Nazis
2008-01-12 16:16 < Doc_glasgow> ggreer: or Hiroshima
2008-01-12 16:16 < Messedrocker> I used "fascist" in a generic sense
2008-01-12 16:16 < Messedrocker> not as in Italy's Fascist Party
2008-01-12 16:16 < ggreer> Doc_glasgow: revenge for pearl harbor and all that junk. also we wanted to know the effects of nukes on cities
2008-01-12 16:16 < sunderland2006> why we talking about nazis
2008-01-12 16:17 < mavhk> ggreer: but in modern warfare most of the causatlies are civilian
2008-01-12 16:17 < Doc_glasgow> US is guilty of civilian targeting on a scale that makes Osama look like an minnow
2008-01-12 16:17 < ggreer> Doc_glasgow: 2,000 deaths is a tragedy, a million is a statistic
2008-01-12 16:17 < ggreer> with apologies to stalin
2008-01-12 16:18 < Messedrocker> osama looks like a tall arab
2008-01-12 16:18 < Messedrocker> not a fish
2008-01-12 16:18 < Pilotguy> The U.S. wants to take over the middle east
2008-01-12 16:18 < Messedrocker> no it doesn't
2008-01-12 16:18 < Messedrocker> just its oil
2008-01-12 16:19 < mavhk> plus starting a war is a great way to screw someone's economy, which was Osama's plan
2008-01-12 16:21 < ggreer> I thought his plan was to provoke the US into invading countries in the mid-east, causing people there to hate the US
2008-01-12 16:21 < ggreer> whatever, he's probably dead by now
2008-01-12 16:22 < Messedrocker> well once the middle east kills the americans and the jews it will kill itself
2008-01-12 16:22 < ggreer> haha
2008-01-12 16:22 < Messedrocker> it will have ran out of outside enemies so it will look for enemies inside
2008-01-12 16:22 < mavhk> he said his side of the war cost about $50k, and the USA spent billions
2008-01-12 16:23 < ggreer> probably cost more than that. I mean plane tickets for 20 people is that much
2008-01-12 16:23 < ggreer> you have to pay rent/hotel/flight school, etc
2008-01-12 16:23 < bumm13> hiya ggreer
2008-01-12 16:23 < ggreer> o
2008-01-12 16:23 < mavhk> did they pay for first class? they could have got real steak knives if they did
2008-01-12 16:23 < ggreer> *yo
2008-01-12 16:23 < ggreer> mavhk: they did. they had the front-most seats on every flight
2008-01-12 16:24 < bumm13> the Seahawks game is on in just a few minutes (NBC or Fox, I forget which)
2008-01-12 16:24 < Pilotguy> Should be NBC
2008-01-12 16:24 < bumm13> it's Fox, actually
2008-01-12 16:25 < Pilotguy> o_o
2008-01-12 16:25 < bumm13> (from here on, it looks like NBC doesn't show any more postseason games)
2008-01-12 16:25 < bumm13> just Fox and CBS
2008-01-12 16:25 < mavhk> yawn, watching sport
2008-01-12 16:25 < Pilotguy> baskbetball
2008-01-12 16:25 < mavhk> if sport were interesting to watch people would need to get drunk and gamble on the result
2008-01-12 16:25 < bumm13> (NFC and AFC games, respectively)
2008-01-12 16:25 < bumm13> and Fox has the Super Bowl this year
2008-01-12 16:26 < bumm13> Seahawks at Packers, then after that game (on CBS) is Jaguars at Patriots
2008-01-12 16:26 < bumm13> (the remaining two games are tomorrow)
2008-01-12 16:29 < ggreer> heh, progressive offers segway insurance
2008-01-12 16:29 < Cyrius> somebody had to
2008-01-12 16:29 < ggreer> I doubt many people buy it, I mean if you have 3 grand to blow you can probably afford another one
2008-01-12 16:30 < ggreer> I just noticed because I changed my policy for my car, and they were like "oh if you've got a motorcycle or mobile home or segway, we can insure that stuff too!"
2008-01-12 16:30 < Messedrocker> are segways street legal?
2008-01-12 16:30 < ggreer> no
2008-01-12 16:30 < Messedrocker> beh
2008-01-12 16:30 < ggreer> they only go like 12mph
2008-01-12 16:30 < Messedrocker> then why pay $3000 for one?
2008-01-12 16:31 < ggreer> you have to take them on the sidewalks
2008-01-12 16:31 < ggreer> although many cities have banned them from the sidewalks as well
2008-01-12 16:31 < ggreer> really if you want efficient personal transport, get a scooter or small motorcycle
2008-01-12 16:32 < Cyrius> efficient powered personal transport
2008-01-12 16:32 < ggreer> right, if you want to go more than 5 miles or so
2008-01-12 16:32 < ggreer> otherwise get off your ass and ride a bike
2008-01-12 16:32 < Cyrius> exactly =)
2008-01-12 16:32 < mavhk> is a scooter efficient?
2008-01-12 16:32 < ggreer> mavhk: yeah, those things get like 70mph
2008-01-12 16:32 < ggreer> *mpg
2008-01-12 16:33 < sunderland2006> anybody got google earth pro, give me a PM if yes
2008-01-12 16:33 < ggreer> and many of them can go highway speeds
2008-01-12 16:34 < mavhk> and compared to a segway?
2008-01-12 16:35 < ggreer> segways use batteries
2008-01-12 16:35 < ggreer> so they use oil and coal power plants
2008-01-12 16:36 < ggreer> anyway they're not street legal, so they don't matter
2008-01-12 16:36 < ggreer> also segways go like 12mph and have a range of maybe 10 miles
2008-01-12 16:37 < mavhk> "The Segway PT has been banned from use on sidewalks and in public transportation in a small number of municipalities"
2008-01-12 16:38 < ggreer> heh
2008-01-12 16:38 < Pilotguy> ooh segways
2008-01-12 16:38 < Pilotguy> Campus police uses those
2008-01-12 16:39 < mavhk> I like the way countries go "we want to help the environment" and then ban them
2008-01-12 16:39 < Pilotguy> lol
2008-01-12 16:40 < ggreer> but they don't do the job of bicycles or motorcycles, they're basically wheelchairs for healthy people
2008-01-12 16:41 < Sceptre> and it basically looks stupid
2008-01-12 16:41 < ggreer> yes
2008-01-12 16:41 < mavhk> better that using a petroleum based engine
2008-01-12 16:41 < Cyrius> I loved the whole pre-release hype
2008-01-12 16:41 < ggreer> The cost of purchasing a Segway varies depending on which model is chosen. In the US, a new Segway currently (MSRP, August 2007) costs between $5,145 and $6,175.
2008-01-12 16:41 < ggreer> haha
2008-01-12 16:41 < Cyrius> with the claims that we would redesign cities around it
2008-01-12 16:41 < ggreer> I thought they were less than that
2008-01-12 16:42 < bumm13> Cyrius: heh, yeah
2008-01-12 16:42 < Cyrius> and it was just a stupid electric scooter
2008-01-12 16:42 < mavhk> Cyrius: did they specify they would redesign these cities in 5 years?
2008-01-12 16:42 < ggreer> mavhk: everything uses oil or coal, it's just a matter of where it gets burned
2008-01-12 16:42 < bumm13> no kidding
2008-01-12 16:42 < Cyrius> mavhk: I don't see us engaging in any redesigning at all
2008-01-12 16:42 < Cyrius> I don't see anyone even calling for it
2008-01-12 16:42 < mavhk> ggreer: or wind, nuclear, etc. Anyway, oil burnt in a power station is way cleaner than in a tiny engine
2008-01-12 16:42 < Cyrius> there are plenty of people trying to get bike lanes and paths
2008-01-12 16:43 < Cyrius> but I don't see any segway activism
2008-01-12 16:43 < mavhk> that's because they cost $5000
2008-01-12 16:43 < ggreer> mavhk: wind is like 1% of power generated
2008-01-12 16:43 < mavhk> so?
2008-01-12 16:43 < ggreer> baseband power is always coal, oil, or nuclear
2008-01-12 16:43 < ggreer> unless you live right next to a huge river
2008-01-12 16:44 < ggreer> so pretty much every place in the US besides washington uses coal, oil, and nuclear, in that order
2008-01-12 16:44 < Cyrius> the US doesn't use oil for electrical generation in any large amount
2008-01-12 16:44 < ggreer> renewables have a long way to go
2008-01-12 16:44 < mavhk> anyway, it's what, 20% not coal/oil, so 20% better not counting the better emmission control and efficiency of power stations
2008-01-12 16:44 < ggreer> heh
2008-01-12 16:44 < Cyrius> coal and nuclear, with natural gas for peak
2008-01-12 16:44 < Cyrius> and plenty of hydro in the country
2008-01-12 16:45 < ggreer> and not counting for inefficiencies transmitting the power, or the fact that you have to generate a lot more power than needed, because your infrastructure has to be built to supply peak demand
2008-01-12 16:45 < mavhk> how much is a lot more?
2008-01-12 16:46 < ggreer> http://www.caiso.com/outlook/SystemStatus.html
2008-01-12 16:46 < ggreer> that much more
2008-01-12 16:46 < ggreer> notice the difference between available and demand
2008-01-12 16:47 < ggreer> also notice the graph starts at 20GW
2008-01-12 16:47 < ggreer> so it's about twice as much
2008-01-12 16:47 < Pilotguy> smartstuff
2008-01-12 16:47 < mavhk> I don't see them actually making that power though
2008-01-12 16:47 < Cyrius> battery-electric systems can often be charged at offpeak, smoothing the demand curve
2008-01-12 16:48 < ggreer> Cyrius: yeah but they're not, because users get charged a flat rate per kw/h, instead of by time
2008-01-12 16:48 < mavhk> we don't
2008-01-12 16:48 < mavhk> we get 7 hours of electricity really cheap at night
2008-01-12 16:48 < Pilotguy> Aren't you still in college?
2008-01-12 16:48 < Pilotguy> In Yonkers or somewhere?
2008-01-12 16:48 < ggreer> no, I'm in california, being a software engineer
2008-01-12 16:48 < Pilotguy> Ah nice
2008-01-12 16:48 < ggreer> I used to go to college in new rochelle
2008-01-12 16:49 < ggreer> yeah, living the life
2008-01-12 16:49 < ggreer> the car I got insurance on is a mazda miata
2008-01-12 16:49 < The359> Are you sure you're not a hairdresser?
2008-01-12 16:50 < ggreer> quite sure, although get that a lot from my friends & co-workers
2008-01-12 16:50 < ggreer> so far I've had one guy say "nice car" to me
2008-01-12 16:50 < ggreer> but two girls have!
2008-01-12 16:50 < The359> as you should
2008-01-12 16:50 < The359> well duh, only girls buy them
2008-01-12 16:50 < Pilotguy> :$
2008-01-12 16:50 < ggreer> girls or gay guys, or people who didn't know that when they bought a miata
2008-01-12 16:50 < ggreer> but it's a really fun car to drive
2008-01-12 16:51 < The359> yeah, that inline-4 is really just....well, no, it isn't
2008-01-12 16:51 < ggreer> it's pretty lightweight, but it's definitely a momentum car
2008-01-12 16:51 < ggreer> not an acceleration car
2008-01-12 16:51 * Cyrius adds ggreer to the surprisingly long list of miata owners he's talked to on the internet
2008-01-12 16:52 < ggreer> also it's cheap for a sporty car
2008-01-12 16:52 < The359> that's not saying much
2008-01-12 16:53 < mavhk> Cyrius: obviously they don't spend long in their cars, online all the time
2008-01-12 16:53 < Triona> *sighs*
2008-01-12 16:53 < Triona> from random article patrol
2008-01-12 16:53 < Triona> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anne_Hathaway_%28Shakespeare%29&diff=183914398&oldid=183419782
2008-01-12 16:53 < ggreer> mavhk: heh, I usually go out for drives on the week-ends
2008-01-12 16:53 < ggreer> but it's kind of cold out now
2008-01-12 16:53 < ggreer> so there's not much of a point
2008-01-12 16:53 < mavhk> I drive when I want to get somewhere, interesting concept
2008-01-12 16:54 < ggreer> oh, I also do that, or take public transportation
2008-01-12 16:54 < bibliomaniac15> Triona: Those schoolchildren...
2008-01-12 16:54 < ggreer> there's a VTA stop two blocks away
2008-01-12 16:54 < atomicpotato> a [[cell phone jammer]] works by creating signal noise. How could someone counter a jammer?
2008-01-12 16:55 < ggreer> atomicpotato: increase the transmit power of your cell phone and the tower
2008-01-12 16:55 < ggreer> so you can't
2008-01-12 16:55 < Dtobias> Documentary evidence of the claim's authenticity is, however, lacking[citation needed].
2008-01-12 16:55 < ggreer> I bought one and it's great at movies
2008-01-12 16:55 < Triona> atomicpotato: higher transmit power, or frequency hopping
2008-01-12 16:55 < Cyrius> or change frequencies
2008-01-12 16:55 < Triona> or to a lesser degree, error correction coding
2008-01-12 16:55 < Dtobias> ...so you need a citation to demonstrate the lack of evidence for a claim.
2008-01-12 16:55 < ggreer> heh, the jammer I got broadcasts on a range of frequencies, and it's tunable
2008-01-12 16:55 < atomicpotato> is there a practical way to spike output power?
2008-01-12 16:56 < ggreer> 800-900Mhz, 1800-1950mhz, and 2100-2200mhz
2008-01-12 16:56 < mavhk> aim a giant laser at the jammer
2008-01-12 16:56 < ggreer> atomicpotato: no, you can't really get around jammers
2008-01-12 16:56 < Triona> devices that use a large part of the spectrum are harder to jam
2008-01-12 16:56 < atomicpotato> tsk. Ah well.
2008-01-12 16:56 < Pilotguy> We had a jammer in my old dorm once
2008-01-12 16:56 < ggreer> atomicpotato: why do you ask? is someone jamming near you?
2008-01-12 16:56 < Triona> the frequency hopping of cellphones is predictable though
2008-01-12 16:56 < Pilotguy> Guy from down the hall got rid of it pretty quickly
2008-01-12 16:57 < G-man> ggreer: well, other than destroying the jammer :-)
2008-01-12 16:57 < atomicpotato> ggreer: no, just wanted to know
2008-01-12 16:57 < Triona> the best way to get rid of it is track it down and notify authorities
2008-01-12 16:57 < ggreer> G-man: heh, that's why I've only used it once, besides for demonstration purposes
2008-01-12 16:57 < atomicpotato> (I suppose physical violence would be a good way to eliminate it)
2008-01-12 16:57 < Triona> assuming you are in a jurisdiction where they will do something
2008-01-12 16:57 < ggreer> I only use it in movies
2008-01-12 16:57 < ggreer> because dude, don't call people in movies
2008-01-12 16:58 < bibliomaniac15> unless it's boring
2008-01-12 16:58 < Triona> if you are in the US, you can get them fined $10000 or more and/or thrown in jail IIRC
2008-01-12 16:58 < mavhk> I had to shout at some teenager in the cinema the other day until she left
2008-01-12 16:58 < ggreer> Triona: yeah, up to 1 year
2008-01-12 16:58 < Triona> it's interfering with licensed spectrum
2008-01-12 16:58 < sasquatch> yea, it's not really enforceable though
2008-01-12 16:58 < Triona> oh, it is
2008-01-12 16:58 < ggreer> mavhk: I was watching i am legend on opening night, and the guy next to me got out his phone and called someone... in the middle of the movie
2008-01-12 16:58 < sasquatch> technically, my iPod radio transmitter violates that law
2008-01-12 16:58 < Triona> hard to enforce
2008-01-12 16:58 < Triona> but, enforcable
2008-01-12 16:58 < ggreer> and I asked him to stop and he blew up in my face
2008-01-12 16:59 < sasquatch> well, that's what i mean Triona
2008-01-12 16:59 < Triona> sasquatch: there are exceptions for low power FM
2008-01-12 16:59 < bibliomaniac15> Reminds me of a girl caught using her blackberry while taking the SAT
2008-01-12 16:59 < sasquatch> Triona: are there? perhaps not in Canadian law then
2008-01-12 16:59 < ggreer> so I bought a cell phone jammer, because people are unreasonable and rude
2008-01-12 16:59 < bibliomaniac15> Had to go call her mom
2008-01-12 16:59 < ggreer> heh
2008-01-12 16:59 < Triona> there are NOT exceptions for deliberately interfering with a transmision that's authorized by license
2008-01-12 17:00 < mavhk> so what caused everyone in society to turn into bastards?
2008-01-12 17:00 < ggreer> Triona: right, but if someone's talking on the phone during a movie, screw them
2008-01-12 17:00 < Triona> A better solution to cell phone problems would be cell phone detectors.
2008-01-12 17:00 < ggreer> Triona: but what about people who are on-call and have their phones on vibrate?
2008-01-12 17:00 < Triona> stop the damn movie if someone turns on a cell phone inside the theater
2008-01-12 17:00 < Triona> turn on the lights
2008-01-12 17:00 < ggreer> they can just walk out of the theater then answer the phone
2008-01-12 17:00 < Triona> ask the offending person to leave without refund
2008-01-12 17:00 < ggreer> and I'm fine with that, the problem is when people stay in the theater and talk on the phone
2008-01-12 17:01 < bibliomaniac15> Call for legislation
2008-01-12 17:01 < Triona> of course, used to, theatres had ushers
2008-01-12 17:01 < mavhk> we should start a secret group of people willing to fight anyone who uses a phone in the cinema, we can all wear a green lapel pin to identify each other, then they'll always be 5 people ready to back you up
2008-01-12 17:01 < Triona> who would kick disruptive people out
2008-01-12 17:01 < ggreer> Triona: yes, it's a societal problem
2008-01-12 17:01 < Ceiling_Cat> ZOMG
2008-01-12 17:01 < Ceiling_Cat> !!!
2008-01-12 17:01 < ggreer> mavhk: heh
2008-01-12 17:01 * Ceiling_Cat just noticed we're missing an incredibly important article
2008-01-12 17:01 < Triona> oh?
2008-01-12 17:01 < NotASpy> mavhk: any time I go to the cinema, there's less than 5 people in the auditorium.
2008-01-12 17:02 < Ceiling_Cat> we have no article on a van dyke goatee
2008-01-12 17:02 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: none?
2008-01-12 17:02 < Ceiling_Cat> Zero
2008-01-12 17:02 < Ceiling_Cat> red link
2008-01-12 17:02 < mavhk> so what caused everyone in society to turn into bastards?
2008-01-12 17:02 < Triona> Ceiling_Cat: {{Notability}}
2008-01-12 17:02 < ggreer> mavhk: I blame technology
2008-01-12 17:02 < bibliomaniac15> Praize Ceiling Cat, whu be watching yu, may he haz a cheezburger
2008-01-12 17:02 < ggreer> it isolates us as it connects us
2008-01-12 17:03 < mavhk> me too, it's the only thing that changes
2008-01-12 17:03 < ggreer> other countries seem to be doing ok though. in japan people talk quietly on their cell phones on the train
2008-01-12 17:03 < ggreer> also their phones are on vibrate
2008-01-12 17:04 < bibliomaniac15> Nothing bothers me more than an annoying ringtone
2008-01-12 17:04 < Triona> Also, fwiw, a theatre could design itself against cell-phone intrusion
2008-01-12 17:04 < ggreer> yeah, they could make it a faraday cage
2008-01-12 17:04 < ggreer> my phone is always on vibrate
2008-01-12 17:04 < bibliomaniac15> They could administer patdowns
2008-01-12 17:04 < Triona> sensors in the seats.
2008-01-12 17:04 < Ceiling_Cat> bibliomaniac15 - I see all
2008-01-12 17:04 * Ceiling_Cat is watching ur shame
2008-01-12 17:05 < ggreer> bibliomaniac15: haha, yeah right
2008-01-12 17:05 < ggreer> bibliomaniac15: people would freak out if you had a concealed carry permit
2008-01-12 17:05 < ggreer> *pat* *pat* *pat* "Whaaaaa-?!"
2008-01-12 17:05 < bibliomaniac15> Ceiling_Cat: And furgive us fur making yu a cookie, but eateding it
2008-01-12 17:05 * Ceiling_Cat creates the article
2008-01-12 17:06 < ggreer> also pat-downs to get into a movie are like metal detectors at clubs: it's a great way to lose tons of money by treating your customers like criminals
2008-01-12 17:06 < NotASpy> it's the bog standard Nokia ringtone that bothers me more than anything.
2008-01-12 17:07 < ggreer> the iphone ringtone is actually pretty nice
2008-01-12 17:07 < ggreer> it's not very loud
2008-01-12 17:07 * Weaselosaurus carries a concealed cucumber
2008-01-12 17:07 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat :D
2008-01-12 17:07 < mavhk> Weaselosaurus: you're just pleased to see everyone
2008-01-12 17:08 < White_Cat> 53rd Hammerheads
2008-01-12 17:08 < White_Cat> does that ring a bell?
2008-01-12 17:08 < mavhk> if it were a choice between everyone talking on their phone in the cinema and one guy having a concealed gun I'd go with the phones
2008-01-12 17:08 < bibliomaniac15> Yet to see a "RFA Candidate's Song" ringtone
2008-01-12 17:09 < Ceiling_Cat> White_Cat - space above and beyond
2008-01-12 17:09 < Ceiling_Cat> but not 53
2008-01-12 17:09 < Ceiling_Cat> I believe it was 54
2008-01-12 17:09 < mavhk> I wait for the day when a RfA is a $100,000,000 advertising campaign
2008-01-12 17:09 * Weaselosaurus is done filling in a one-page form after three hours
2008-01-12 17:09 < Ceiling_Cat> no, 58th
2008-01-12 17:09 < Weaselosaurus> mavhk: Change! for Wikipedia.
2008-01-12 17:09 < Ceiling_Cat> Weaselosaurus - is that a cucumber you're concealing or are you just happy to see me?
2008-01-12 17:09 < mavhk> I'm not a wikipedia insider, I will bring change
2008-01-12 17:10 < Doc_glasgow> mavhk: we could introduce primaries for arbcom elections too
2008-01-12 17:10 < mavhk> I already did that one
2008-01-12 17:10 < bibliomaniac15> mavhk: Right now, the 100 mill campaign is before RFA, more friends, more supports
2008-01-12 17:10 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat
2008-01-12 17:10 < bibliomaniac15> mavhk: you might want to see the bathrobe cabal
2008-01-12 17:10 < mavhk> I did accept donations from citizendium, but I do not endorse their position
2008-01-12 17:10 < Weaselosaurus> I conceal it somewhere that wouldn't elicit the wrong kind of association
2008-01-12 17:10 < White_Cat> This is the NTF Iceni power down your engines and prepare to be boarded!
2008-01-12 17:10 * White_Cat boards Ceiling_Cat's... Ceiling?
2008-01-12 17:10 * Ceiling_Cat increases to ramming speed
2008-01-12 17:11 * Ceiling_Cat rams White_Cat
2008-01-12 17:11 < White_Cat> aww
2008-01-12 17:11 < White_Cat> kinky
2008-01-12 17:11 < White_Cat> <3
2008-01-12 17:11 * Doc_glasgow claims salvage if the debris
2008-01-12 17:11 < mavhk> can you have ramming speed in a spaceship?</old usenet war>
2008-01-12 17:11 < bibliomaniac15> MOAR FIGHTING
2008-01-12 17:11 < Luigi30> The NTF is the only legitimate authority in this system.
2008-01-12 17:11 < White_Cat> Doc_glasgow you cant salvage anything
2008-01-12 17:11 < Ceiling_Cat> mavhk - have you ever read startide rising?
2008-01-12 17:11 < bibliomaniac15> Im in ur IRC, rammin ur Ceiling Cat
2008-01-12 17:11 < Doc_glasgow> White_Cat: I have a tractor beam
2008-01-12 17:11 < mavhk> no
2008-01-12 17:11 < ggreer> mavhk: yeah, just turn the engines on all the way and point toward what you want to ram
2008-01-12 17:12 < White_Cat> they dont have tractor beams in the 236's
2008-01-12 17:12 < mavhk> indeed it's more ramming-action than ramming-speed
2008-01-12 17:12 < White_Cat> err
2008-01-12 17:12 < Pilotguy> Doc_glasgow- Putting Wikipedia and democracy together? Are you kidding me?
2008-01-12 17:12 < White_Cat> 2367's
2008-01-12 17:12 < ggreer> I guess it's just shorter than saying "give me 100% thrust and try to ram that dude"
2008-01-12 17:12 < mavhk> and turn off all failsafes
2008-01-12 17:12 < ggreer> yeah, all that stuff
2008-01-12 17:13 < sunderland2006> does anybody know if this person is notable, [[Gavin Donoghue]]
2008-01-12 17:13 < Ceiling_Cat> Well, IMO, Startide Rising is one of my two or three favorite sci-fi novels of all time (backstory: I've been trying to read all the hugo award winning novels. I've gotten about 30 of them, so being in the top 2-3 is a fair accomplishment)
2008-01-12 17:13 < Doc_glasgow> Pilotguy: you'll never make wikipedia a democracy, but a b'rocracy is the next best thing ;)
2008-01-12 17:13 < mavhk> if nasa needs more money they should stage space battles with their shuttles
2008-01-12 17:13 < Ceiling_Cat> at hte end of the story, the humans/dolphins are fleeing a pursuing fleet at relatatistic velocity
2008-01-12 17:13 < Pilotguy> hehehe
2008-01-12 17:13 < White_Cat> Luigi30 Neo-Terran Front is not legitimate in any sense
2008-01-12 17:13 < Ceiling_Cat> they dump a whole bunch of water from the ship
2008-01-12 17:13 < Ceiling_Cat> at near-light speed, running into a fine mist of water is like running into a brick wall
2008-01-12 17:13 < ggreer> uplifts? that's stupid
2008-01-12 17:14 < Ceiling_Cat> they destroy several pursuing ships that way
2008-01-12 17:14 < mavhk> but do they still have digital watches?
2008-01-12 17:14 < Doc_glasgow> Nominations for the President of the English Wikipedia open next Monday
2008-01-12 17:14 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat a single atom can blow a ship moving really fast
2008-01-12 17:14 < White_Cat> you ouhgt to have a repealant in front
2008-01-12 17:14 < Ceiling_Cat> White_Cat - No, it's can't. It'd probably fly right through
2008-01-12 17:14 < bibliomaniac15> Doc_glasgow: I'll be accepting any bribes and free whiskey
2008-01-12 17:15 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat have you ever flew into an atom?
2008-01-12 17:15 < White_Cat> at near C speeds?
2008-01-12 17:15 < Ceiling_Cat> White_Cat - atoms fly through my body every day
2008-01-12 17:15 < White_Cat> mo
2008-01-12 17:15 < mavhk> they do?
2008-01-12 17:15 < ggreer> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-energy_cosmic_ray
2008-01-12 17:15 < White_Cat> no you are confusing it with neutrinos
2008-01-12 17:15 < Ceiling_Cat> mavhk - at the atomic level, you resemble a galaxy
2008-01-12 17:15 < Ceiling_Cat> lots of space between the atoms
2008-01-12 17:15 < Ceiling_Cat> the chances of a single atom flying through you and hitting something is small
2008-01-12 17:15 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat you imply I am a pegboard?
2008-01-12 17:16 < White_Cat> I dont have that many holes
2008-01-12 17:16 < ggreer> even if it did hit stuff, it would only take out very few molecular bonds
2008-01-12 17:16 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat you just think dirty
2008-01-12 17:16 < White_Cat> leave me and my holes alone!
2008-01-12 17:16 * Ceiling_Cat makes use of White_Cat's holes
2008-01-12 17:16 * Ceiling_Cat shows White_Cat he has holes he didn't know about
2008-01-12 17:16 < mavhk> how do I stick together then?
2008-01-12 17:17 < White_Cat> Alright Sam Becket what makes you think I am male?
2008-01-12 17:17 < Pilotguy> because
2008-01-12 17:17 < Ceiling_Cat> mavhk - at the molecular level, the electromagnetic force
2008-01-12 17:17 < Ceiling_Cat> and at the intermolecular level, hydrogen bonding
2008-01-12 17:17 < White_Cat> What if I am a girl that Quantum leaped into a mans body or vise versa
2008-01-12 17:17 < White_Cat> so what if a gay person leaps into a female body?
2008-01-12 17:18 < White_Cat> would that be irony?
2008-01-12 17:18 < mavhk> queentum leap?
2008-01-12 17:18 < ggreer> no, and your hypothetical is stupid
2008-01-12 17:18 < Ceiling_Cat> mavhk - does that answer your question?
2008-01-12 17:18 < Pilotguy> DEATH TO STUPIDITY
2008-01-12 17:18 * Pilotguy stabs White_Cat
2008-01-12 17:18 < bibliomaniac15> quantum physics is a b****, I'm afraid
2008-01-12 17:18 * White_Cat cant be stabed
2008-01-12 17:19 * White_Cat is a hologram
2008-01-12 17:19 < Ceiling_Cat> White_Cat prefers to be greased up, ala Weaselosaurus
2008-01-12 17:19 < ggreer> you know you can say bitch in this channel
2008-01-12 17:19 * Ceiling_Cat greases up White_Cat as if he was a weasel
2008-01-12 17:19 < mavhk> but can you say boner?
2008-01-12 17:19 < White_Cat> pop goes theweasel?
2008-01-12 17:19 < White_Cat> where is theweasel?
2008-01-12 17:19 < White_Cat> :(
2008-01-12 17:20 * Ceiling_Cat does a lemmiwinks on White_Cat
2008-01-12 17:20 < White_Cat> ggreer do you ever go out?
2008-01-12 17:20 < White_Cat> now would be a good time to do so
2008-01-12 17:20 < White_Cat> go outside and preferably stay there
2008-01-12 17:20 < ggreer> White_Cat: yes, last night I went to a party, and won $20 gambling
2008-01-12 17:20 < mavhk> White_Cat: they have the internet outside now
2008-01-12 17:20 < ggreer> oh, ha, I see what you did there
2008-01-12 17:20 < White_Cat> mavhk right right
2008-01-12 17:20 < White_Cat> but he has limited battery
2008-01-12 17:21 < White_Cat> ggreer I am the kind who wins 100$ for buying pizza
2008-01-12 17:21 < White_Cat> or 40$ for buying a can of coke
2008-01-12 17:22 < White_Cat> and loose wallet
2008-01-12 17:22 < White_Cat> all 3 on the same day
2008-01-12 17:22 < ggreer> huh?
2008-01-12 17:23 < The359> Finally
2008-01-12 17:23 < The359> Hillary is back on In The News
2008-01-12 17:24 < mavhk> my brother won the top prize in the only 2 big tech competitions in the field within a month, $2k computer and a $200 expansion board
2008-01-12 17:25 < ggreer> I expensed an iphone
2008-01-12 17:25 < ggreer> wow, we're all winners
2008-01-12 17:26 * Triona is done attacking articles for a few minutes
2008-01-12 17:26 < Ceiling_Cat> Commons-l list run by wikipedia-listadmin at computerkultur.org
2008-01-12 17:26 < Ceiling_Cat> Who is computerkultur.org?
2008-01-12 17:27 < White_Cat> Ceiling_Cat: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/FreeSpace_3#FreeSpace_3.C2.AE_Trademark
2008-01-12 17:29 * Weaselosaurus considers inhalation
2008-01-12 17:30 < Weaselosaurus> oh well, later
2008-01-12 17:34 < Weaselosaurus> "Duf" is a funny first name
2008-01-12 17:35 < mavhk> is their surname Beir?
2008-01-12 17:35 < Weaselosaurus> no, something Swedish I forgot
2008-01-12 17:57 < Sfan00> http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Report:_UK_schools_advised_not_to_upgrade_to_Vista Ouch!!
2008-01-12 17:58 < Sfan00> Why on earth does the UK govt once again want to condem Educational IT to being behind the times and deny pupils the chance to work with what is becoming the industry standard?
2008-01-12 17:58 < Messedrocker> because windows vista is shank
2008-01-12 17:58 < Messedrocker> you didn't know that?
2008-01-12 17:58 < Mbimmler> because people are already downgrading from vista again?
2008-01-12 17:58 < The359> standard for who?
2008-01-12 17:59 < Mbimmler> and because Messedrocker is right
2008-01-12 17:59 * kmccoy likes Vista.
2008-01-12 17:59 < The359> weirdo
2008-01-12 17:59 < Mbimmler> "ccording to InformationWeek, in December 2006, 6% of business enterprises were expected to employ Vista within the first year, yet as of October 2007, only about 1% of enterprise PCs were actually using Vista.["
2008-01-12 18:00 < The359> owned
2008-01-12 18:00 < Mbimmler> see also http://www.news.com/The-XP-alternative-for-Vista-PCs/2100-1016_3-6209481.html
2008-01-12 18:01 < kenlyric> i'm in that 1%
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> Sfan00: It would be really silly if the UK Govt now baccked GNU/Linux or other 'free' OS
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> :(
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> # December 5, 2007 - Interview with Whitney (C8) published.
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> # January 28, 2008 - Interview with Furonda (C6), tentative publishing date.
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> # February 4, 2008 - Interview with Keenyah (C4), tentative publishing date.
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> :/
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> Shame they can't get other Govt dept's to agree on ODF
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> hopefully those dates are locked, but I have a feeling they won't be
2008-01-12 18:01 < Mike_H> :(
2008-01-12 18:01 < mavhk> Sfan00: considering half the educational software hardly works if you're a limited user on XP moving to vista would break most of it
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> LOL
2008-01-12 18:01 < mavhk> educational software sucks
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> For real?
2008-01-12 18:01 < Sfan00> mavhk: It used not to
2008-01-12 18:02 < mavhk> when it was written for risc os it didn't
2008-01-12 18:02 < kenlyric> lots of software sucks.
2008-01-12 18:02 < Sfan00> In the early 1990's UK Education software was a world leader :)
2008-01-12 18:02 < kenlyric> that's not microsoft's fault, one of the few things that isn't.
2008-01-12 18:02 < Sfan00> and wasn't crappy re badged gaming :(
2008-01-12 18:02 < mavhk> in 1999 harpercollins wanted software written to work with windows 3.1
2008-01-12 18:02 < kenlyric> mavhk: actually, running as a vista limited user is much easier than an XP limited user.
2008-01-12 18:03 < kenlyric> because the OS actually knows how to request admin privs.
2008-01-12 18:03 < mavhk> if the software is written to ask, or its installer is called setup.exe
2008-01-12 18:03 < Sfan00> Of course some people I knew went for Macs and Claris in schools which must have been pricey than buying mS :(
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> school getting PCs = my house full of acorns :-)
2008-01-12 18:04 < Sfan00> mavhk: Shame OOo doesn't run on Iyonix
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> meh, it's just a MS office clone, what's the point?
2008-01-12 18:04 < Sfan00> mavhk: You wouldn't happen to have a spare RiscPC would you?
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> not really
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> try eba
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> y
2008-01-12 18:04 < kenlyric> a bad office clone.
2008-01-12 18:04 < Sfan00> mavhk: OK So whats the Office software on RISC OS then?
2008-01-12 18:04 < Sfan00> Pipedream and Impression?
2008-01-12 18:04 < mavhk> Ovation Pro/Impression Publisher
2008-01-12 18:05 < Sfan00> Which one was Ovation?
2008-01-12 18:05 < mavhk> there's a couple of presention programmes
2008-01-12 18:05 < Sfan00> (me wikis)
2008-01-12 18:05 < mavhk> David Pilling's, works on windows now
2008-01-12 18:05 < Sfan00> Is there an Access equivlant?
2008-01-12 18:05 < Sfan00> I assume Minvera's still around?
2008-01-12 18:05 < mavhk> I use fireworkz, but it's slow, there isn't a great spreadsheet
2008-01-12 18:06 < mavhk> there's a few databases, SQuirreL
2008-01-12 18:06 < Sfan00> And for simple data you can use BBC BASIC to do cardfiles...
2008-01-12 18:06 < Sfan00> ;)
2008-01-12 18:06 < Sfan00> You can't do that on Windows :)
2008-01-12 18:06 < mavhk> there's s-base
2008-01-12 18:06 < Sfan00> (at least not by default)
2008-01-12 18:07 < mavhk> there is bbc basic for windows
2008-01-12 18:07 < Sfan00> True, but not on the defualt install ;)
2008-01-12 18:07 < mavhk> telnet isn't in the default install for vista
2008-01-12 18:08 < kenlyric> uuuuh
2008-01-12 18:08 < kenlyric> I'd hope not
2008-01-12 18:08 < mavhk> I've been saying for years we might as well just steal all the good interface ideas for a linux clone
2008-01-12 18:08 < kenlyric> telnet should be burned from the face of the earth.
2008-01-12 18:08 < mavhk> kenlyric: the client is useful for testing if http servers are working
2008-01-12 18:08 < kenlyric> telnet should be burned from the face of the earth.
2008-01-12 18:09 < mavhk> and for connecting to lan devices
2008-01-12 18:09 < Sfan00> mavhk: you run ArmLinux?
2008-01-12 18:10 < mavhk> I have
2008-01-12 18:10 < Sfan00> kenlyric: Telnet is older technology
2008-01-12 18:10 < Sfan00> :)
2008-01-12 18:10 < kenlyric> telnet should be burned from the face of the earth.
2008-01-12 18:10 < mavhk> why?
2008-01-12 18:11 < kenlyric> all evil things should be scourged
2008-01-12 18:11 < mavhk> why is it evil?
2008-01-12 18:11 < Sfan00> BTW Is there a Wiki product guide somwehere
2008-01-12 18:11 < Sfan00> I need to find some odd items
2008-01-12 18:11 < Sfan00> :(
2008-01-12 18:12 < kenlyric> particularly in Windows. Doesn't doesn't need any more giant security holes installed by default.
2008-01-12 18:12 < mavhk> how is it a security hole?
2008-01-12 18:12 < Sfan00> telnet allows you to talk directly to stuff
2008-01-12 18:13 < mavhk> oh noes!
2008-01-12 18:13 < Sfan00> even on loopback.:(