freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> you usually have to go to "Menu"
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> go to captions, and choose "CC1"
2008-01-12 06:14 < bumm13> it seems to be a largely North America thing
2008-01-12 06:14 < bumm13> what is "CC2", exactly?
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> CC2 is the Spanish equivalent
2008-01-12 06:14 < bumm13> ahhhh
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> it's rare, though
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> and if you put CC1 on, say
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> Univision
2008-01-12 06:14 < bumm13> I've seen it used before
2008-01-12 06:14 < Mike_H> it will come up in Spanish for captions
2008-01-12 06:14 < zocky> plenty channels have teletext subtitles here, but there's no special system
2008-01-12 06:15 < bumm13> the U.S. never got onboard with general teletext usage
2008-01-12 06:15 < Mike_H> zocky: Captioning started for select programs in the US in the late 1970s, with the rise of the deaf culture movement and such
2008-01-12 06:15 < bumm13> so closed-captioning is a niche variant of teletext here
2008-01-12 06:15 < Mike_H> and the ADA was passed in 1993, making it illegal for US TVs to be sold without closed captioning.
2008-01-12 06:15 < Mike_H> or, should I say, ADA was valid starting in 1993
2008-01-12 06:15 < bumm13_> (♬ Music ♬)
2008-01-12 06:16 < zocky> so, you have to buy a tv for deaf people even if you're not deaf?
2008-01-12 06:16 < zocky> that sounds SOOO unamerican
2008-01-12 06:16 < bumm13> accessibility is un-American?
2008-01-12 06:16 < Mike_H> You have to actually turn the captions on to see them.
2008-01-12 06:16 < bumm13> I guess it depends on your viewpoint ;)
2008-01-12 06:16 < Mike_H> It's not like you'll see them just by watching a program.
2008-01-12 06:17 < bumm13> it's probably more "American" than Macrovision ;p
2008-01-12 06:17 < Mike_H> Closed captioning (CC) (commonly known as subtitles, and also called subtitles for the hearing impaired) allows people who are deaf or hard of hearing, learning a new language, beginning to read, in a noisy environment, or otherwise prefer to read a transcript or dialog of the audio portion of a video, film, or other presentation.
2008-01-12 06:17 < mavhk> my sister's always turning on the subtitles, no idea why
2008-01-12 06:17 < Mike_H> Most of the world does not distinguish captions from subtitles. In the United States and Canada, these terms do have different meanings, however: "subtitles" assume the viewer can hear but cannot understand the language, so they only translate dialogue and some on-screen text. "Captions" aim to describe all significant audio content and "non-speech information," such as the identity of speakers and their manner of speaking.
2008-01-12 06:17 < zocky> yeah, I get it, and I get what bumm is saying about accesibility too, but this isn't like a public fixture or whatever, it's a machine you buy for use in your own living room/bedroom/wherever
2008-01-12 06:18 < mavhk> not like it costs anything
2008-01-12 06:19 < Mike_H> Yeah, TV prices didn't go up when they had to add captions or anything
2008-01-12 06:19 < Mike_H> it's just...a TV
2008-01-12 06:19 < zocky> is it illegal to sell tv sets that don't support NTSC?
2008-01-12 06:19 < bumm13> it's something else hidden in a TV set
2008-01-12 06:20 < Mike_H> No, but that doesn't occur in the US
2008-01-12 06:20 < bumm13> illegal? seems unlikely
2008-01-12 06:20 < Mike_H> NTSC is the standard. Why buy another one?
2008-01-12 06:20 < bumm13> but it'd be useless
2008-01-12 06:20 < zocky> what if you want to buy a PAL tv for whatever special purpose?
2008-01-12 06:20 < Mike_H> bumm13: The law is called
2008-01-12 06:20 < Mike_H> Television Decoder Circuitry Act of 1990
2008-01-12 06:20 < zocky> does it have to support CC?
2008-01-12 06:20 < Mike_H> and all TVs made after July 1, 1993 have to have CC
2008-01-12 06:21 < bumm13> nobody in the U.S. offers new PAL-only sets for retail sale (at least no major consumer outlet)
2008-01-12 06:21 < bumm13> such a TV set would also have to use North America AC power specs
2008-01-12 06:21 < bumm13> (which none do to my knowledge)
2008-01-12 06:21 < Mike_H> bumm13: Sorry, not ALL TVs
2008-01-12 06:21 < Mike_H> but pretty much every TV for family consumption
2008-01-12 06:22 < Mike_H> aka every TV 13 inches or above
2008-01-12 06:22 < bumm13> I've heard that newer NTSC sets can handle PAL
2008-01-12 06:22 < zocky> newer tv sets can mostly handle all 3
2008-01-12 06:22 < bumm13> Mike_H: oh, I understand the law
2008-01-12 06:23 < bumm13> (before modern multi-standard sets, the scenario I described earlier would've applied)
2008-01-12 06:23 < zocky> it just seems strange that US should regulate features of home electronic equipment, when even europe doesn't do that, further than safety
2008-01-12 06:23 < Mike_H> zocky: It was due to the ADA
2008-01-12 06:23 < bumm13> well, thank the power of unchecked capitalism for that ;p
2008-01-12 06:24 < bumm13> big companies drive the standards, then Congress has to force compliance for things like CC
2008-01-12 06:24 < Mike_H> Because of the TV decoder act and the ADA, it basically made it illegal to not allow TV to be accessible to everyone
2008-01-12 06:24 < Triona> zocky: part of why it was regulated in the US was that CC is possible to add to newer TV sets at almost no cost, while adding it after manufacturing, would have added a cost of probably $100 or more.
2008-01-12 06:24 < Mike_H> including deaf people (who have a disability, thus the D in ADA)
2008-01-12 06:24 < Triona> So, it's considered discriminatory
2008-01-12 06:25 < Mike_H> bumm13: A lot of programs didn't add CC until 1993, when they HAD to
2008-01-12 06:25 < Mike_H> I know Days of our Lives and Another World were not captioned until 1993.
2008-01-12 06:25 < bumm13> things like this can be a real tug-of-war in the U.S. at times
2008-01-12 06:25 < bumm13> Mike_H: yeah
2008-01-12 06:26 < Triona> when integrated decoding can happen at almost no cost, vs standalone decoders (which have to do a video overlay) costing $100 or more, and you have a small, disadvantaged group, the free market isn't going to do the ethical thing without government intervention
2008-01-12 06:26 < Mike_H> Educational programs had CC for a long time before 1993. With entertainment nighttime TV, it was added in spurts, starting in the late 1980s.
2008-01-12 06:28 * bumm13 calls Mike_H on a TTY (TDD)
2008-01-12 06:28 < Mike_H> I have had to converse with people that way
2008-01-12 06:28 < Mike_H> it's very difficult if you don't know what you're doing
2008-01-12 06:28 < bumm13> [HIMIKE]
2008-01-12 06:28 < bumm13> I'll bet
2008-01-12 06:28 < bumm13> I've never known a deaf person
2008-01-12 06:28 < Mike_H> the operators are minimal help
2008-01-12 06:28 < Mike_H> since they are not allowed to talk to you
2008-01-12 06:28 < bumm13> arg
2008-01-12 06:28 < Mike_H> and I did not know how to formally ask for help
2008-01-12 06:29 < Mike_H> apparently you have to say certain words to get them to help you
2008-01-12 06:29 < Mike_H> and I didn't know what they were
2008-01-12 06:29 < bumm13> heh, magic words
2008-01-12 06:29 < Mike_H> "HELP" did not do it
2008-01-12 06:30 < bumm13> it's probably something intuitive like "ASSIST1NODEAFY"
2008-01-12 06:30 < Triona> addressing them as "Relay operator" usually works.
2008-01-12 06:30 < bumm13> I prefer "TTY stewardess"
2008-01-12 06:30 < Mike_H> Yeah, I didn't know what to do
2008-01-12 06:30 * bumm13 ducks
2008-01-12 06:31 < bumm13> I encountered a deaf person locally one time
2008-01-12 06:31 < bumm13> (a gal that was married to a hearing guy)
2008-01-12 06:31 < Triona> as in (from an actual relay call years ago): Relay operator, I will spell phonetically. india november echo tango wiskey india zulu
2008-01-12 06:32 < zocky> bumm13, don't get me started on "flight attendants". that's probably the dumbest "PC" thing ever.
2008-01-12 06:32 < bumm13> it is a tad extreme
2008-01-12 06:32 < Triona> I've had good relay operators and bad ones on a call though
2008-01-12 06:32 < Mike_H> bumm13: http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=TBROuvxPDSY
2008-01-12 06:32 < Mike_H> The 2007 winner was a girl
2008-01-12 06:32 < Mike_H> only the second one in 19 years.
2008-01-12 06:32 < bumm13> Triona: inetwiz?
2008-01-12 06:33 < bumm13> a gal from Washington state?
2008-01-12 06:33 < zocky> the whole "operator?" thing one sees in american movies looks so 1950s from european perspective
2008-01-12 06:33 < Triona> all my relay calls have been working for an ISP's tech support department
2008-01-12 06:33 < Mike_H> yep
2008-01-12 06:33 < bumm13> zocky: it is dated
2008-01-12 06:33 < Triona> relay calls suck
2008-01-12 06:33 < bumm13> damn, Washington has a lot of Geography Bee champions
2008-01-12 06:33 < Triona> and some of the operators are assholes about working with you.
2008-01-12 06:33 < zocky> bumm13, yeah, but it was like a normal thing in american tv shows/movies back in the 1980s
2008-01-12 06:34 < bumm13> yeah
2008-01-12 06:34 < bumm13> that was before 911 became widespread in the U.S.
2008-01-12 06:34 < bumm13> (for emergencies)
2008-01-12 06:34 < Mike_H> bumm13: I forget the 1997 one's last name
2008-01-12 06:34 < Mike_H> Alex something
2008-01-12 06:34 < Triona> For what it's worth though, if you are on a relay call, be advised they are legally obligated to try and provide the person they are relaying for any and all information that a hearing person could discern
2008-01-12 06:34 < bumm13> the old black-and-white films with the ol' "Operator! Give me the police!" are funny now
2008-01-12 06:34 < Mike_H> he's from Washington
2008-01-12 06:34 < zocky> well yeah, you had multiple operators at that time, and we had national telecoms
2008-01-12 06:34 < Mike_H> and basically...failed at life, it was hilarious
2008-01-12 06:35 < Triona> that includes describing background sounds and background conversations to the person on the other end
2008-01-12 06:35 < Triona> So, assume they will relay EVERYTHING
2008-01-12 06:35 < Mike_H> because most of the damn winners go on to Ivy League schools because they're smart and shit
2008-01-12 06:35 < Mike_H> The '97 winner took like six years to complete a degree at UW and is now doing Teach for America or something equally :/
2008-01-12 06:35 < bumm13> some Alex Kerchner person
2008-01-12 06:35 < Mike_H> yeah, Alex Kerchner
2008-01-12 06:36 < bumm13> (hmm, from Kirkland)
2008-01-12 06:36 < Mike_H> he's only like three years older than me
2008-01-12 06:36 < bumm13> that's a Seattle suburb
2008-01-12 06:36 < Mike_H> I think he only completed his degree this past year
2008-01-12 06:36 < Mike_H> It's kind of funny when I looked up a lot of the people I was at the Geography Bee with
2008-01-12 06:36 < bumm13> Lawson Fite is like the über-geographer :x
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> they're all going to fancy schools
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> and shit
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> More than one is attending Harvard
2008-01-12 06:37 < bumm13> Mr. Fite is one of those
2008-01-12 06:37 < bumm13> (or had attended)
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> Harvard has a lot of Geography Bee winners
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> Kyle Haddad-Fonda, who won for Washington in 2001, also goes there
2008-01-12 06:37 < bumm13> ah
2008-01-12 06:37 < zocky> btw, the newest trick our phone operators have now: you can keep your phone number and move your account to another operator, which among other things affects the cost for people who call you, but gives them no indication of that
2008-01-12 06:37 < Mike_H> he won the state bee for Washington in 1999, 2000 and 2001
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> finally winning the national contest on the third try
2008-01-12 06:38 < Luna-San> Dtobias: Heh, I dunno if you're about, but I liked your "Aw, geez..." post on wikien-l ;)
2008-01-12 06:38 < bumm13> Fite was better, though
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> bumm13: The guy that won my year is a right-wing Christian nut
2008-01-12 06:38 < bumm13> arg
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> and goes to some shitty school in Tennessee
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> with like 500 students
2008-01-12 06:38 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-12 06:38 < zocky> so, somebody can have a phone number which makes it look like I can call them for free, but may in reality cost me more than calling to rwanda
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> it's one of those ALL ABOUT GOD colleges
2008-01-12 06:38 < bumm13> zocky: ack
2008-01-12 06:38 < Mike_H> just one step away from Oral Roberts
2008-01-12 06:38 < bumm13> indeed
2008-01-12 06:39 < bumm13> I think that's similar to my high school's enrollment
2008-01-12 06:39 < Triona> zocky: more properly, affects cost for the phone company of whoever calls you - most phone customers have their rates locked in
2008-01-12 06:39 < Luna-San> zocky: Ouch. =\
2008-01-12 06:39 < bumm13> oh wait, mine is closer to 1000
2008-01-12 06:39 < zocky> Triona, nope, that's not how it works here
2008-01-12 06:39 < Mike_H> You know, some of the National Geography Bee kids that I was with
2008-01-12 06:39 < Mike_H> they grew up and were actually well-adjusted
2008-01-12 06:39 < Mike_H> a lot of them aren't, though
2008-01-12 06:39 < bumm13> ok, less than 1k
2008-01-12 06:39 < bumm13> 900-ish
2008-01-12 06:39 < Mike_H> It's usually the ones who are from home-schooled backgrounds and groom their kids for this shit
2008-01-12 06:40 < bumm13> yeah
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> The Thampy family in Missouri is really notorious for that
2008-01-12 06:40 < Luna-San> Mike_H: Did you read about the kid at a national spelling bee that blanked out on "Girlfriend"? =\
2008-01-12 06:40 < bumm13> Thampy, lol
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> Like three of their kids have won either the Geography Bee or the Spelling Bee
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> it's kind of disgusting
2008-01-12 06:40 < bumm13> "bees" aren't everything
2008-01-12 06:40 < Triona> zocky: wait... they are allowing out of country portability?
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> it is to that family.
2008-01-12 06:40 < Luna-San> Speed stacking > bees
2008-01-12 06:40 < bumm13> like sports to others, I suppose
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> bumm13: Mallika Thampy, the girl who won Missouri's contest the year I went, she's not even going to a great school
2008-01-12 06:40 < zocky> Triona, no, they're allowing operators to agree on whatever rates for calls between them
2008-01-12 06:40 < Mike_H> she's going to like, UMKC or something
2008-01-12 06:41 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-12 06:41 < Luna-San> I just wish my parents had been that enthusiastic about gaming. "My, that was a WONDERFUL zerg rush, Timmy!"
2008-01-12 06:41 < Mike_H> Mallika is one of the few Thampy children who never won a Bee.
2008-01-12 06:41 * bumm13 thinks WA has geography-tine in the water
2008-01-12 06:41 < bumm13> what the hell kind of surname is "Thampy", anyway? :P
2008-01-12 06:42 < Luna-San> All the rain, they can't play outside.
2008-01-12 06:42 < Mike_H> bumm13: Kyle Haddad-Fonda is a really nice kid. His parents were actually very easygoing too. You can tell they were totally the type that lucked into having a gifted child.
2008-01-12 06:42 < bumm13> it rhymes with "grampy"
2008-01-12 06:42 < Mike_H> bumm13: They were Indians, the Thampys.
2008-01-12 06:42 < zocky> Triona, so my calls to other land line operators can cost whatever they agree, and unless I go through a complex automated call procedure to turn on the warnings, I won't know which rate will apply.
2008-01-12 06:42 < bumm13> Natives?
2008-01-12 06:42 < Mike_H> No, convenience store.
2008-01-12 06:42 < bumm13> ah
2008-01-12 06:42 < bumm13> lol
2008-01-12 06:42 < Triona> zocky: eww.
2008-01-12 06:42 < zocky> Triona, calling US or australia is already cheaper from my land line than calling local mobile operators
2008-01-12 06:42 < bumm13> ouch
2008-01-12 06:43 < Mike_H> There were a lot of kids who were very gifted and basically lucked into having smart kids. Jason Espiritu, he was competing for Guam, and Kellie Packwood, she competed for Indiana, they were both just regular kids
2008-01-12 06:43 < bumm13> international calls (outside of NANPA) from the U.S. are extremely expensive
2008-01-12 06:43 < Mike_H> and I still keep in contact with them
2008-01-12 06:43 < bumm13> cool
2008-01-12 06:43 < Mike_H> they go to UChicago and DePauw, respectively
2008-01-12 06:43 < bumm13> I never socialized with any of the 1992-94 Washington state finalists
2008-01-12 06:43 < Mike_H> *There were a lot of parents
2008-01-12 06:43 < Mike_H> whatever, it's late
2008-01-12 06:44 < Triona> Then again, we haven't had a phone bill here in the last 20 years.
2008-01-12 06:44 < bumm13> Triona - o.o
2008-01-12 06:44 < Luna-San> ^o.o^ No phone bill?
2008-01-12 06:44 < Mike_H> My year the kids to get to the final question round were from South Carolina and Puerto Rico.
2008-01-12 06:44 < Triona> no, Sprint^WEmbarq has to pay it for us.
2008-01-12 06:44 < bumm13> !
2008-01-12 06:44 < Mike_H> South Carolina won, if you couldn't tell from the ALL ABOUT GOD comments
2008-01-12 06:45 < bumm13> haha
2008-01-12 06:45 < bumm13> Triona: lawsuit or something?
2008-01-12 06:45 < Triona> Old carolina telephone employee contract.
2008-01-12 06:45 < bumm13> former utility worker?
2008-01-12 06:45 < Triona> it's my grandmother's house, and phone's in her name
2008-01-12 06:45 < Triona> she's retired from the telephone company
2008-01-12 06:45 < bumm13> cool :-)
2008-01-12 06:46 < zocky> south carolinas and everywhere, like, such As
2008-01-12 06:46 < Triona> they don't do that anymore in the contract
2008-01-12 06:46 < bumm13> heh, understandably not
2008-01-12 06:46 < Mike_H> I forget what part of South Carolina he was from
2008-01-12 06:46 < Triona> but, she retired under the old contract
2008-01-12 06:46 < Mike_H> I think Orangeburg
2008-01-12 06:46 < bumm13> what, with all the billions the telecoms have, give service for free! impossible! :P
2008-01-12 06:46 < bumm13> Mike_H: that's as enlightened as SC gets
2008-01-12 06:46 < Triona> only thing we do pay for is the DSL.
2008-01-12 06:46 < bumm13> (that area)
2008-01-12 06:47 < Mike_H> bumm13: I would think the coast is more enlightened than Orangeburg
2008-01-12 06:47 < Mike_H> (which is central South Carolina)
2008-01-12 06:47 < bumm13> wait, I'm thinking of Anderson-Spartanburg area
2008-01-12 06:47 < bumm13> nm
2008-01-12 06:47 < Mike_H> Orangeburg is south of Columbia.
2008-01-12 06:47 < zocky> telecommunications should really be nationalized and provided for free. actual costs, once you subtract managers and marketing, are very low
2008-01-12 06:47 < bumm13> yeah
2008-01-12 06:47 < bumm13> SCSU area
2008-01-12 06:47 < Mike_H> and Greenville/Spartanburg is NOT enlightened
2008-01-12 06:48 < bumm13> ah
2008-01-12 06:48 < Mike_H> lest we forget, that is where Bob Jones University is.
2008-01-12 06:48 < bumm13> my mistake :P
2008-01-12 06:48 < bumm13> lol
2008-01-12 06:48 < bumm13> SC just sucks all-around then
2008-01-12 06:49 < Mike_H> bumm13: There aren't bad schools in that area, though
2008-01-12 06:49 < SC_StC> bumm13: talking about me?
2008-01-12 06:49 < bumm13> nope
2008-01-12 06:49 < Mike_H> the best-known ones are probably Furman and Wofford.
2008-01-12 06:49 < bumm13> sorry to ping you
2008-01-12 06:49 < SC_StC> oh well
2008-01-12 06:49 < bumm13> Wofford survived the Civil War ;)
2008-01-12 06:49 < Mike_H> Furman being in Greenville
2008-01-12 06:49 < Mike_H> and Wofford being in Spartanburg
2008-01-12 06:50 < SC_StC> why is it still showing that "You can help Wikipedia change the world! - 42,733 have donated" banner? I thougt that was over?
2008-01-12 06:50 < bumm13> Wofford is the oldest (or close to being) institution in the South
2008-01-12 06:50 < bumm13> (college/university)
2008-01-12 06:50 < Mike_H> Wofford is one of the few four-year institutions in the southeastern United States founded before the American Civil War and still operating on its original campus.
2008-01-12 06:50 < bumm13> SC_StC: empty your cache, maybe?
2008-01-12 06:50 < bumm13> :)
2008-01-12 06:50 < SC_StC> it's a page that I never consulted before
2008-01-12 06:50 < bumm13> hmm
2008-01-12 06:50 < Mike_H> Wofford did not become fully co-ed until 1980.
2008-01-12 06:50 < SC_StC> when I refresh it's gone
2008-01-12 06:51 < bumm13> Mike_H: arg
2008-01-12 06:51 < Mike_H> before that, women were allowed to attend only if they commuted from home.
2008-01-12 06:51 < bumm13> :P
2008-01-12 06:51 < bumm13> nothing like the "we're not gay, were a badass boy's club!" culture ;p
2008-01-12 06:51 < Luna-San> SC_StC: Huh. I would have to guess that's client-side, the banner should have been removed. Maybe a server hiccup, but seems less likely.
2008-01-12 06:51 < bumm13> did they have swimming classes where all the guys got naked, too? ;p
2008-01-12 06:52 < Mike_H> bumm13: Our school is practically a baby compared to Wofford
2008-01-12 06:52 < SC_StC> it was showed on a "This article or section needs to be updated." article
2008-01-12 06:52 < bumm13> "male bonding", lol
2008-01-12 06:52 * bumm13 could make jokes about such silliness all day...
2008-01-12 06:52 < Mike_H> USF was founded in 1956, though it was not even named until the next year and classes didn't commence until 1960. Some of the original proposed names included "Citrus State University", "Sunshine State University," "The University of the Western Hemisphere," "Ponce de Leon University," "Flamerica University," and "The University of Florida at Temple Terrace." [9]
2008-01-12 06:52 < bumm13> yeah, USF is rather new by comparison
2008-01-12 06:53 < bumm13> Flamerica? o.o
2008-01-12 06:53 < Mike_H> I would shoot myself if I owned a sweatshirt with "FLAMERICA" emblazoned on it
2008-01-12 06:53 < bumm13> heh, no kidding
2008-01-12 06:53 < Mike_H> Fl-orida Am-erica
2008-01-12 06:53 < bumm13> how awful
2008-01-12 06:53 < Mike_H> Although located in west-central Florida, at the time of establishment USF was the southernmost public university in the State of Florida, a geographic situation that lent USF its sometimes confusing name.
2008-01-12 06:53 < bumm13> if they had used the FAU method, it'd be called "Florida Mexico" :x
2008-01-12 06:54 < bumm13> the Gulf gets no love :(
2008-01-12 06:55 < Luna-San> I enjoyed the San Francisco Fire Department hoodies that were popular around here, a few years back. The "S.F. (crossed axes) F.D." looked like "SEX ED" from a distance.
2008-01-12 06:55 < Mike_H> bumm13: Admittance rates have moved down since I was admitted
2008-01-12 06:55 < Mike_H> In 2004, USF admitted 68% of applicants
2008-01-12 06:56 < zocky> i read some news story yesterday about how iranians insist on calling the Gulf "Persian Gulf"
2008-01-12 06:56 < Mike_H> in 2007, it was 51%
2008-01-12 06:56 < zocky> isn't that like its normal name in english?
2008-01-12 06:56 < Mike_H> US News and World Report has now called it a "more selective" school.
2008-01-12 06:56 < Mike_H> zocky: Yes, the correct name in English is "Persian Gulf"
2008-01-12 06:56 < Luna-San> zocky: Yep. Though for us it's across the world, so it might be a bit different.
2008-01-12 06:57 < Mike_H> Since the 1960s with the rise of Arab nationalism (Pan-Arabism), starting with Gamal Abdel Nasser's Arab Republic of Egypt, some Arab countries, including the ones bordering the Persian Gulf, have adopted the term "Arabian Gulf" (in Arabic: ?????? ?????? al-khal?j al-?arab?) to refer to the waterway.[6]
2008-01-12 06:57 < Mike_H> Most recently, at the Twenty-third session of United Nation in March-April 2006, the name "Persian Gulf" was confirmed again as the legitimate and the official term to be used by members of United Nation.[15]
2008-01-12 06:57 < bumm13> Arabia already has a sea :P
2008-01-12 06:57 < Mike_H> zocky: So that may be why. Iranians are Persian, not Arabian.
2008-01-12 06:58 < zocky> yeah, I figured it out in the meantime. i found this:
2008-01-12 06:58 < zocky> Iranians around the world are up in arms over the publication of the National Geographic Society's new "Atlas of the World." The uproar is over the inclusion of "Arabian Gulf" as a secondary name for the "Persian Gulf," the body of water that lies between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula.
2008-01-12 06:58 < Luna-San> bumm13: They also got 1,001 nights. >.>
2008-01-12 06:58 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-12 06:58 < zocky> anyway, it's still a strange thing to say in an article about the iranian boats and american ships
2008-01-12 06:58 < bumm13> it is strange
2008-01-12 06:59 < bumm13> National Geographic Society has done silly things before
2008-01-12 06:59 < Mike_H> zocky: I think we've had this conversation before, but before Slovenia split off, did you consider yourself a Slovenian or a Yugoslavian foremost?
2008-01-12 06:59 < bumm13> in the early 90s, they showed maps that outlined "Northern Cyprus" with its own color
2008-01-12 06:59 < zocky> Mike_H, me myself yugoslavian, but that was atypical
2008-01-12 07:00 < Mike_H> I find it funny that Yugoslavia was perhaps one of the most enigmatic Communist states in Eastern Europe, despite being more open to the West than other nations.
2008-01-12 07:00 < bumm13> interesting
2008-01-12 07:00 < zocky> Mike_H, that's probably just because I didn't consider myself to be neither slovenian, where I lived, nor serbian, where my family was from, but they were multi-ethnic and very non-nationalist
2008-01-12 07:00 < Mike_H> at least in the US point of view.
2008-01-12 07:01 < zocky> well, there's this stereotype of what a "communist country" was like
2008-01-12 07:02 < Mike_H> zocky: Yes, to Americans, all of the communist nations of Eastern Europe were considered the same
2008-01-12 07:02 < zocky> no country really fits it, and yugoslavia probably fits it least of all
2008-01-12 07:02 < Mike_H> which, to refer to them, we just always called them "the Warsaw Pact nations," implying that they would all think and act alike.
2008-01-12 07:02 < bumm13> it's probably tough enough for most Americans to perceive those countries as different in the first place...
2008-01-12 07:02 < zocky> in most of eastern europe for most of the time, government surveillance was on a lower level than in US or EU now
2008-01-12 07:03 < zocky> Mike_H, hey, we weren't in the warsaw pact
2008-01-12 07:03 < Mike_H> zocky: Americans didn't know that. They figured if it was communist, they were in it.
2008-01-12 07:03 < zocky> we were the leaders of the non-aligned movement
2008-01-12 07:03 < zocky> third world exploitation with a human face :)
2008-01-12 07:04 < Mike_H> but America didn't hear a lot about the specific nations behind the Iron Curtain anyway.
2008-01-12 07:04 < Mike_H> Whenever they would make news, it was usually the USSR
2008-01-12 07:04 < zocky> we built their factories for exorbitant prices, but when we were done, they actually owned the factories
2008-01-12 07:04 < Mike_H> with East Germany and Poland tying for second.
2008-01-12 07:04 < Mike_H> and the other ones...slim to never.
2008-01-12 07:04 < zocky> until they sold them to americans, french and brits in the late 1990s, of course
2008-01-12 07:04 < Mike_H> but it was easier to be portrayed that way, since for decades, the USSR was America's enemy.
2008-01-12 07:05 < bumm13> plays into fear-mongering, partly
2008-01-12 07:05 < zocky> Mike_H, much more than the other way around, I think
2008-01-12 07:05 < Mike_H> bumm13: oh, definitely
2008-01-12 07:05 < zocky> america wasn't "the enemy"
2008-01-12 07:05 < Mike_H> most people of a certain age in America still consider those countries enemies
2008-01-12 07:06 < Mike_H> even though they've been open now for years.
2008-01-12 07:06 < bumm13> indeed
2008-01-12 07:06 < zocky> it was much like now, worrying about the american militarism, but with added realistic fear that you might be the target
2008-01-12 07:06 < Mike_H> zocky: In the US, there was almost always the fear of nuclear war with the USSR
2008-01-12 07:06 < Mike_H> in fact, it was at a high one-note pace as late as 1987
2008-01-12 07:07 < bumm13> the U.S. seems doomed to be stuck with a largely populistic nationalist mindset (at least by over half of the population)
2008-01-12 07:07 < zocky> i guess our keeping out of the blocs helped us survive the 1950s and 1960s without that particular paranoia
2008-01-12 07:07 < brown_cat_> BAHAHAHA! AMERICAN IS DOOMED! Xd
2008-01-12 07:07 < Mike_H> zocky: Here is a typical view of the Iron Curtain to us
2008-01-12 07:07 < brown_cat_> xD
2008-01-12 07:07 < Mike_H> from the later years.
2008-01-12 07:07 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjuRlQRmWXc
2008-01-12 07:08 < nsh> how do you insert a url into a html document?
2008-01-12 07:08 < nsh> that is, include another web page
2008-01-12 07:08 < nsh> difficulty, any method that doesn't include the word "frame"
2008-01-12 07:08 < zocky> nsh, you don't, at least not in html
2008-01-12 07:09 < nsh> ok
2008-01-12 07:09 < nsh> i thought i'd been through this #here
2008-01-12 07:09 < nsh> but, not helping isn't a kind of helping
2008-01-12 07:09 < Mike_H> zocky: The clip advertises a six-day look behind the Iron Curtain. Even by 1987 those looks were really rare for us.
2008-01-12 07:09 < nsh> please note for future reference
2008-01-12 07:09 < zocky> Mike_H, oh, I know, I watched a lot of american movies and tv shows in/from that time
2008-01-12 07:09 < bumm13> the Reagan years only added to all that
2008-01-12 07:10 < Mike_H> by the late 1980s the harangue became less virulent
2008-01-12 07:10 < Mike_H> I think because Gorbachev came to power
2008-01-12 07:10 < bumm13> yeah
2008-01-12 07:10 < Mike_H> and Americans heralded him as the man who would bring USSR out of communism
2008-01-12 07:10 < zocky> because USSR was already going down the drain
2008-01-12 07:10 < bumm13> Glasnost and perestroika! ;)
2008-01-12 07:10 * bumm13 remembers those words from the news even back then as a young kid
2008-01-12 07:10 < bumm13> :x
2008-01-12 07:11 < bumm13> (damn, Jane Pauley was young then)
2008-01-12 07:11 < Mike_H> bumm13: She was 36 in that clip
2008-01-12 07:11 < bumm13> :x
2008-01-12 07:11 < Mike_H> (born 10/31/1950)
2008-01-12 07:11 < bumm13> I probably watched that part of that show before school started
2008-01-12 07:12 < bumm13> (perhaps)
2008-01-12 07:12 < phed_> hmm, what is that CAM process about?
2008-01-12 07:12 < bumm13> I started watching news in 1987
2008-01-12 07:12 < phed_> I don't understand it
2008-01-12 07:12 < Mike_H> zocky: Do you remember what you were doing the date of that newscast?
2008-01-12 07:12 < Mike_H> May Day, 1987
2008-01-12 07:12 < phed_> I always thought CAM was alternative medicines as viewed by science
2008-01-12 07:13 < zocky> it was mostly that the west came out of the oil crisis in a better shape than the east. up to 1970s, the east and the west didn't look THAT much different - the cars were similar, even if there were fewer, the houses were similar, there was vibrant culture, even if somewhat censored. but then the west went on, and the east got stuck in the late 1960s.
2008-01-12 07:13 < Mike_H> zocky: and that always struck me too
2008-01-12 07:13 < Mike_H> looking at East Berlin from 1989
2008-01-12 07:14 < Mike_H> the buildings were very 1960s and very dated
2008-01-12 07:14 < zocky> Mike_H, may day when I was 14? I was most probably somewhere at the seaside in istria, where I hitchhiked, getting drunk with friends
2008-01-12 07:14 < bumm13> heehee
2008-01-12 07:14 < Mike_H> Was that allowed?
2008-01-12 07:14 < zocky> at that time,y es
2008-01-12 07:14 < Mike_H> See, I have a weird view of how that should be
2008-01-12 07:14 < Mike_H> I was always taught that secret police spied on people and people made notes of what you did
2008-01-12 07:15 < zocky> the interesting thing about yugoslavia (and probably other places) is that punk culture arose in some cities and didn't in others based on some seeming unexplainable pattern.
2008-01-12 07:16 < bumm13> I'm a tad too young to have seen much actual punk culture, regardless of my locale :)
2008-01-12 07:16 < Mike_H> bumm13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVpYBxXhXj0
2008-01-12 07:16 < zocky> it turns out that it depended on where there was police brutality against the youth and where not, which turns out to have depended on individual idiot policemen, who the kids had no idea they could report and get fired.
2008-01-12 07:16 < Mike_H> Today, from Miami!
2008-01-12 07:16 < bumm13> and I didn't live in Los Angeles ;)
2008-01-12 07:16 < bumm13> (or San Francisco)
2008-01-12 07:17 < Mike_H> bumm13: this clip is from February 1989
2008-01-12 07:17 < Mike_H> just weeks before Jane Pauley left Today
2008-01-12 07:17 < bumm13> Seattle didn't have much of an indie scene until the late 80s, mostly
2008-01-12 07:17 < bumm13> Mike_H: Quincy helped stop punk rock! ;)
2008-01-12 07:17 < zocky> I read about the punk scene in rijeka, in croatia. they all felt oppressed by the system because there was one policemen who harassed the kids, and his boss from that time says he always wondered when somebody will complain about the guy officially so he can have legal cause for firing him.
2008-01-12 07:18 < bumm13> Miami, "wonderful city"???
2008-01-12 07:18 < bumm13> (from the youtube clip caption text)
2008-01-12 07:19 < Mike_H> haha
2008-01-12 07:19 < Reedy_Boy> {{NPOV}}
2008-01-12 07:19 < bumm13> I remember that time (on Today)
2008-01-12 07:19 * bumm13 waits for Don Johnson to fly by on a speedboat
2008-01-12 07:20 < Mike_H> bumm13: haha, I found a clip
2008-01-12 07:20 < Mike_H> Today, from Buenos Aires
2008-01-12 07:20 < zocky> Mike_H, about the secret police: I don't know, maybe it could work in big places like USSR or Poland, but since everybody here is either your cousin's friend or your friend's cousin, it just couldn't work like in the movies
2008-01-12 07:22 < bumm13> Buenos Aires? :x
2008-01-12 07:22 < Mike_H> bumm13: yeah
2008-01-12 07:22 < Rinn> Buenos Aires dies
2008-01-12 07:22 < Mike_H> from February 1986
2008-01-12 07:22 < bumm13> how pointless
2008-01-12 07:22 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mdrspXHEFw
2008-01-12 07:22 < bumm13> (years later) "Our currency has collapsed!"
2008-01-12 07:23 < bumm13> Argentina is a weird mix of things
2008-01-12 07:23 < bumm13> it would be a very liveable place on the surface
2008-01-12 07:24 < bumm13> but it's governed very poorly
2008-01-12 07:24 < bumm13> and lacks investment and infrastructure
2008-01-12 07:24 < bumm13> it's government also has a history of borderline fascist sympathies
2008-01-12 07:24 < bumm13> *its
2008-01-12 07:25 < Mike_H> bumm13: they're talking about "piropo"
2008-01-12 07:26 < Mike_H> an Argentine cultural thing that's basically like a mix of bad pick-up lines and catcalls to women on the street
2008-01-12 07:26 < bumm13> hahaha
2008-01-12 07:26 < zocky> Mike_H, i guess it was different in different countries. the last time we had actual violent repression of dissidents was in late 1940s, when we split from USSR. our secret service did assassinate some nazi-collaborators abroad as late as 1980s, but not any dissidents, like bulgarians did. if you disagreed here, most likely nothing would happen to you, or you could have trouble getting ahead in your career. to get to jail for a year or two, you needed to
2008-01-12 07:26 < zocky> be very loud, persistent and somewhat incapable. it wasn't at all a given that the court will find you guilty of a political crime just because you were charged.
2008-01-12 07:26 < Mike_H> and to demonstrate, a piropo said to Jane Pauley "I wish you were like candy so I can eat you"
2008-01-12 07:26 < Mike_H> and Jane Pauley made the most priceless face, like "That's so gross"
2008-01-12 07:26 < Mike_H> and she just says, not changing her facial expression
2008-01-12 07:26 < Mike_H> "Maybe he should try another line"
2008-01-12 07:26 < bumm13> haha
2008-01-12 07:27 < bumm13> peach-colored sweatshirt :-)
2008-01-12 07:28 < Mike_H> bumm13: haha, the second one was even worse
2008-01-12 07:28 < Mike_H> it was basically a euphemism meaning "Your backside makes me hard"
2008-01-12 07:28 < Mike_H> and Jane just went, "Okay, if that happened to a girl here, does she...does she hit him?"
2008-01-12 07:29 < arcimboldo_> Argentina has a tendency towards the emotional, melodramatic side.
2008-01-12 07:30 < arcimboldo_> As in Tango.
2008-01-12 07:30 < arcimboldo_> So they also like dramatic speeches by populists.
2008-01-12 07:30 < zocky> isn't "you look lovely today, madam" also a euphemism for "your backside makes me hard"?
2008-01-12 07:30 < Mike_H> Haha, the third pick-up line is tamer but still stupid
2008-01-12 07:30 < bumm13> Mike_H: lol!
2008-01-12 07:30 < arcimboldo_> Depends. If you tell that to your 80year old neighbour then it's usually meant differently.
2008-01-12 07:30 < Mike_H> "Your walk is so electric, if you move that way any more, you will break my pacemaker!"
2008-01-12 07:30 < bumm13> "backstage", roffle
2008-01-12 07:31 < bumm13> "electric way" (he shakes his fake tits)
2008-01-12 07:31 < zocky> Mike_H, that one's pathetic
2008-01-12 07:31 < bumm13> that Brinski actor dude's English is horrid
2008-01-12 07:32 < Mike_H> You can tell Jane Pauley hates this entire segment
2008-01-12 07:32 < bumm13> indeed
2008-01-12 07:32 < Mike_H> she totally threw a phone at her assistant after this
2008-01-12 07:32 < bumm13> did she?
2008-01-12 07:32 < Mike_H> no :P
2008-01-12 07:32 * bumm13 is gullible
2008-01-12 07:32 < Mike_H> but if she were Naomi-level pissed off
2008-01-12 07:32 < Mike_H> she should have
2008-01-12 07:32 < zocky> almost as bad as the emo classic: "Is your father a thief?" "Ummm... no" "Is your mother a thief?" "What?" "So who stole the stars from the sky and put them in your eyes?"
2008-01-12 07:33 < bumm13> to be fair, it was more cornball than borderline sexual harassment (by U.S. standards)
2008-01-12 07:33 < bumm13> broken English notwithstanding
2008-01-12 07:34 < bumm13> yay machisimo! :P
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> bumm13: Haha, here's another interview you can tell Jane hates
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> she is so bored-looking and I think she starts yelling
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKH9ljd11tM
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> Jane was very hard-news, and she's interviewing stars of Santa Barbara
2008-01-12 07:34 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> like, she totally started out her interview with "When Santa Barbara debuted, TV Guide called the show the worst show on TV...maybe ever."
2008-01-12 07:34 < Mike_H> burn.
2008-01-12 07:36 < bumm13> Jane Pauley certainly didn't come across as "gushy" or "girl talk"
2008-01-12 07:36 < zocky> chemistry between the-guy-who-looks-like-hungover-hobo-dandy-in-wrinkled-clothes and barby?
2008-01-12 07:37 < bumm13> on-screen and all that
2008-01-12 07:37 < bumm13> he'd be one of those guys who has "girls that are friends" and isn't gay
2008-01-12 07:37 < Mike_H> zocky: rofl
2008-01-12 07:37 < Mike_H> A Martinez has gone on to do movies and other TV shows
2008-01-12 07:37 < Mike_H> he's a fairly good actor
2008-01-12 07:37 < Mike_H> but he'll always be most known for Santa Barbara.
2008-01-12 07:37 < Mike_H> It's his blessing and curse.
2008-01-12 07:38 < zocky> actually, real barbie is made of plastic, so you can get her face to move with enough force
2008-01-12 07:38 < zocky> she's more like a porcelain doll
2008-01-12 07:44 < Suva> Tell me the worst series on tv, ever :P
2008-01-12 07:45 < Suva> I would set up [[7th heaven]] as a canditate
2008-01-12 07:46 < Mike_H> oh yeah
2008-01-12 07:46 < Mike_H> that was shit
2008-01-12 07:46 < zocky> 7th heaven is quite vile, yes
2008-01-12 07:46 < zocky> i hated full house too
2008-01-12 07:46 < zocky> that was so not funny
2008-01-12 07:47 < ancjr> the olsun twins were sexy in full house
2008-01-12 07:47 < bumm13> ...
2008-01-12 07:47 < ancjr> jk
2008-01-12 07:47 * bumm13 puts ancjr on the offender list
2008-01-12 07:48 < bumm13> not funny jk! ;p
2008-01-12 07:48 < bumm13> hiya IceKarma
2008-01-12 07:48 < ancjr> so there are no more tv screen caps allowed?
2008-01-12 07:51 < Suva> Actually to think of it... There is few things comparable to 7th heaven
2008-01-12 07:51 < phed__> jesus christ
2008-01-12 07:51 < phed__> i took time to read the talk page on CAM
2008-01-12 07:51 < phed__> :(
2008-01-12 07:52 < ancjr> i think the 80's were the golden age of television
2008-01-12 07:54 < phed__> and i am not sure about that banning of that John Gohde (when it is going in motion) should have bigger consequences than this
2008-01-12 07:54 < phed__> it is clear that the community had huge problems keeping a cold head when dealing with this
2008-01-12 07:54 < zocky> ancjr, one of them, at any rate. i'd say that in 1980s they figured out some new formulas and used them to make great tv, and in the 1990s those formulas became obligatory, because the focus groups said so.
2008-01-12 07:55 < zocky> by now, it's all become repetitive and boring
2008-01-12 07:56 < phed__> Bah
2008-01-12 07:57 < phed__> There should be a ArbCom:Truth >: )
2008-01-12 07:58 < Suva> CAM?
2008-01-12 07:59 < Suva> I'ts not like CAM page refers to 100 different things
2008-01-12 07:59 < phed__> hm?
2008-01-12 08:00 < phed__> Complementary and Alternative Medicine
2008-01-12 08:01 < Misa> Computer Assisted Manufacturing
2008-01-12 08:01 < Suva> Ah, all those things are fucked up
2008-01-12 08:02 < phed__> yes, but I feel the topic is treated unfairly and in an uninformed manner
2008-01-12 08:02 < Misa> or Computer Aided Manufacturing, same thing really
2008-01-12 08:02 < phed__> there are rational perspectives on things
2008-01-12 08:02 < phed__> and these are not always scientific
2008-01-12 08:03 < Suva> Pseudoscience topics
2008-01-12 08:03 < phed__> it is kinda like explaining what the programming language python is from the perspective of a politician
2008-01-12 08:04 < phed__> yes, I love the so-called pseudoscience
2008-01-12 08:04 < phed__> because that's for the most unfalsified subjects
2008-01-12 08:04 < phed__> and anything is falsifiable, perhaps you just don't know how yet
2008-01-12 08:04 < Suva> Altenative medicine is dangerous though
2008-01-12 08:05 < phed__> Depends
2008-01-12 08:05 < phed__> If the treatment is professional it shouldn't be
2008-01-12 08:05 < Suva> Specially when practiced by guidances in Wikipedia :D
2008-01-12 08:05 < Suva> Well, I use some stuff
2008-01-12 08:05 < phed__> I think it is a lack of informed media
2008-01-12 08:05 < phed__> And a badly informed public
2008-01-12 08:05 < Suva> Like I have that liquid which I made from willow bark, against headaches
2008-01-12 08:06 < JohnReaves> Who is the last contributor here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beauty&action=history
2008-01-12 08:06 < phed__> Ie. how many times have you heard about "chemical imbalance"?
2008-01-12 08:06 < Suva> And... That's about it. I take no other medicines, contemporary or not
2008-01-12 08:06 < phed__> Those ads for depression wouldn't pass initial scrutiny
2008-01-12 08:06 < zocky> liquid made from willow bark against headaches? that would be aspirin in water, plus who knows what poisons?
2008-01-12 08:07 < Suva> zocky: Aspirin?
2008-01-12 08:07 < phed__> well, I have my own personal theory about that
2008-01-12 08:07 < phed__> And I am surprised if many others haven't noticed
2008-01-12 08:08 < phed__> I noticed that humans are exceptionally good at resisting the nasty stuff that is the food we eat
2008-01-12 08:09 < zocky> Suva, see for instance http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99302.htm
2008-01-12 08:09 < phed__> And I think that we have adopted to different things that exist in the nature
2008-01-12 08:09 < Suva> zocky: Ah, this is why it works :)
2008-01-12 08:09 < phed__> And perhaps adopted to make use of stuff in different chemicals and proteins
2008-01-12 08:09 < zocky> it's somewhat strange that [[aspirin]] doesn't mention willow bark
2008-01-12 08:10 < phed__> And I suspect that we will in certain cases get better results with natural medicine than artificial medicine
2008-01-12 08:10 < zocky> ah, it's in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylic_acid#History
2008-01-12 08:10 < phed__> mm
2008-01-12 08:10 < Suva> zocky: But the liquid is tasty :)
2008-01-12 08:10 < phed__> Anyway, herbals are included in the WHO database of side effects
2008-01-12 08:12 < zocky> phed__, many of the things from which medicines are extracted we don't normally eat
2008-01-12 08:12 < zocky> like willow bark
2008-01-12 08:13 < phed__> that is an assumption
2008-01-12 08:14 < zocky> what is? that we don't normally eat tree bark?
2008-01-12 08:14 < zocky> we're not very good at digesting cellulose
2008-01-12 08:14 < phed__> that we are not adapted to it
2008-01-12 08:15 < phed__> yes, well, I argue that the fact that it is natural doesn't do anything with its status as positive or negative
2008-01-12 08:17 < phed__> Hm, we are still very adopted to things in the nature.
2008-01-12 08:17 < phed__> It is not like we are adopted to live on silicon-based proteins
2008-01-12 08:18 < phed__> The fact that medicine often is better, doesn't make this knowledge bad.
2008-01-12 08:18 < phed__> And often it might be desirable to use natural medicine, if safe.
2008-01-12 08:21 < phed__> You know, how we adopt to the environment. This could also adopting to the composition of natural medicines.
2008-01-12 08:21 < phed__> Anyway, I think it is important to do this on a case to case basis
2008-01-12 08:21 < phed__> And certain therapies might be in-repeatable because science has not been able to detect factors.
2008-01-12 08:22 < phed__> Whilst called pseudoscience, it does not as such label the field
2008-01-12 08:22 < phed__> soapboxing :D
2008-01-12 08:23 < phed__> totally I think this pesudoscience war is disgrace to the project. wasting time being skeptic on pages they are uninformed about instead of improving the scientific pages
2008-01-12 08:29 < phed__> summary: wikipedia is saturated by people who believe science 101 is absolute fact
2008-01-12 08:31 < kila> do you have to keep spamming?
2008-01-12 08:32 < phed__> yes, everyone is idling :(
2008-01-12 08:33 * brown_cat_ waves to kila :)
2008-01-12 08:33 < kila> hiya brown_cat_
2008-01-12 08:33 < kila> phed__: so.. just shut up is everyone is idling :P
2008-01-12 08:34 < phed__> I am ranting!
2008-01-12 08:35 < brown_cat> /remove phed__ #wikipedia :It's britney bitch
2008-01-12 08:40 < Traveler2> hello is this wikipedia channel
2008-01-12 08:40 < Traveler2> hello?
2008-01-12 08:42 < theawaydj> Hey anyone here have a recomendation on what tv i should buy between 50 and 52 inches
2008-01-12 08:42 < theawaydj> Hey anyone here have a recomendation on what tv i should buy between 50 and 52 inches
2008-01-12 08:42 < theawaydj> oops
2008-01-12 08:43 < Suva> theawaydj: Yeah, don't
2008-01-12 08:43 < Suva> theawaydj: Buy a computer
2008-01-12 08:43 < theawaydj> Suva 50-52 inches?
2008-01-12 08:43 < hangy> ibm z-series ;)
2008-01-12 08:44 * thedjatclubrock would like a wall mountable (not rear projection) lcd or plasma any ideas?
2008-01-12 08:44 * thedjatclubrock best friend has cousins that are execs in IBM
2008-01-12 08:44 < thedjatclubrock> and appe
2008-01-12 08:44 < thedjatclubrock> apple
2008-01-12 08:45 < Suva> Yes, definitely I need a 52" TV to watch fucking 576X712 picture
2008-01-12 08:45 < thedjatclubrock> Huh?
2008-01-12 08:46 < Suva> That's the pal resolution :P
2008-01-12 08:46 < thedjatclubrock> Suva: Ahh
2008-01-12 08:46 < thedjatclubrock> 1080P here
2008-01-12 08:46 < Suva> HD?
2008-01-12 08:46 < mavhk> no, 1080p sd
2008-01-12 08:47 < thedjatclubrock> Suva:
2008-01-12 08:47 < thedjatclubrock> oops
2008-01-12 08:47 < mavhk> as long as it is 1080p and had hdcp input the only thing that matters is price vs picture quality
2008-01-12 08:47 < Suva> Either way, TV is waste of money :P
2008-01-12 08:47 < thedjatclubrock> mavhk: any reccomendations
2008-01-12 08:47 < Suva> I wish I didn't have one
2008-01-12 08:48 < thedjatclubrock> Suva: I'll conect my MacBook Pro to it
2008-01-12 08:48 < Suva> thedjatclubrock: Local TV store knows better
2008-01-12 08:48 < thedjatclubrock> OK
2008-01-12 08:49 < mavhk> thedjatclubrock: just read every specialist review site you can, then give up and buy the cheapest one you think looks good
2008-01-12 08:49 < Suva> Yeah
2008-01-12 08:49 < mavhk> apparently the lighting in tv shops is so different to home lighting that it looks wrong in the shop anyway
2008-01-12 08:50 < Suva> Or buy a motorbike instead :)
2008-01-12 08:50 < mavhk> what use is a motorbike?
2008-01-12 08:50 < Suva> You can ride around with it
2008-01-12 08:50 < mavhk> where do you want to go?
2008-01-12 08:50 * thedjatclubrock can afford any tv under 70 inches
2008-01-12 08:51 < mavhk> if you want to save money just read all about how next year's tvs will be so much better that you should wait
2008-01-12 08:51 < thedjatclubrock> mavhk: How will the be better
2008-01-12 08:52 < mavhk> better colours, last longer, brighter, more like crts, thinner, etc