freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-11 21:29 < Tony_Sidaway> uberpenguin: is that a scientific statement, or an insular one?
2008-01-11 21:29 < Lycurgus> *Brody
2008-01-11 21:29 < uberpenguin> that's a penguin statement
2008-01-11 21:29 < phed__> Lycurgus, but it is uncited. However I recognize everything as facts
2008-01-11 21:29 < phed__> Lycurgus: It is just that the only official biography is a comic :P
2008-01-11 21:29 < mastertop> R=V/I, that means a 4V LED that draws 50mA has a higher resistance than a 4V *thing* that draws a full amp? :(
2008-01-11 21:30 < phed__> Lycurgus: Since the rest of the good material is self-references in dialogues it can be messy to verify :)
2008-01-11 21:30 < mastertop> that fucks me up.
2008-01-11 21:30 < mastertop> oh..
2008-01-11 21:31 < mastertop> yeah, maybe that does make sens
2008-01-11 21:31 < phed__> Lycurgus, there is a paper that I know is available on the net called "The Pluralist and Possibilist Aspect of the Scientific Enterprise "
2008-01-11 21:31 < uberpenguin> mastertop: uh oh, be careful now
2008-01-11 21:31 < uberpenguin> mastertop: LEDs don't obey ohm's law
2008-01-11 21:31 < uberpenguin> they are non-linear devices
2008-01-11 21:31 < mastertop> ! :( !
2008-01-11 21:31 < phed__> Lycurgus: but I am not able to get papers :(
2008-01-11 21:31 < phed__> open access now!
2008-01-11 21:31 < uberpenguin> LEDs follow a roughly exponential current-voltage relationship
2008-01-11 21:31 < phed__> can wikipedia start that campaign?
2008-01-11 21:32 < mastertop> are motors non linear devices too?
2008-01-11 21:32 < Lycurgus> http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/id/The_Philosophy_Behind_Physics/9783540579526 was best I could find. THere's no en wp article.
2008-01-11 21:32 < phed__> uberpenguin, lum = I^2?
2008-01-11 21:32 < uberpenguin> here's the classical I-V relationship for a diode: I = Is(exp(V/Vt) - 1)
2008-01-11 21:32 < uberpenguin> and that equation is only true for "medium forward bias"
2008-01-11 21:32 < phed__> Lycurgus, hmm. I don't have access to that
2008-01-11 21:33 < mastertop> pfiou..
2008-01-11 21:33 < phed__> no .no:wp article either. Though there is a summary in norwegian
2008-01-11 21:33 < Lycurgus> really why not?
2008-01-11 21:33 < uberpenguin> mastertop: depends on the exact type of motor, but in general motors as a whole aren't linear
2008-01-11 21:33 < uberpenguin> very few things are really linear, even linear materials
2008-01-11 21:33 < mastertop> AAAAHHHH
2008-01-11 21:33 < phed__> Lycurgus: mind if I PM you a rough translation?
2008-01-11 21:34 < Lycurgus> or email it to juan@acm.org at your leisure.
2008-01-11 21:34 < Lycurgus> bbiab.
2008-01-11 21:34 < phed__> yeah, I'll translate the verifiable paragraphs
2008-01-11 21:35 < uberpenguin> mastertop: we just pretend things are linear to make equations easier to solve
2008-01-11 21:35 * Big-Brother watches uberpenguin
2008-01-11 21:35 < uberpenguin> I'm not goldstein, go away
2008-01-11 21:35 < phed__> can't find anything on thomas brady : \
2008-01-11 21:36 < Messedrocker> huhuhhuhuh goldstein
2008-01-11 21:36 < Messedrocker> i know someone named goldstein
2008-01-11 21:36 < mastertop> But?
2008-01-11 21:36 < bumm13> who I don't know is someone named "platinumstein"
2008-01-11 21:36 < uberpenguin> Austein
2008-01-11 21:36 < mastertop> Am I *totally* wrong saying a 4V LED that draws 50mA has a 80ohms resistance?
2008-01-11 21:37 < uberpenguin> mastertop: not totally wrong, but an LED doesn't have a constant resistance :)
2008-01-11 21:37 < uberpenguin> remember that resistance is a linear quantity and LEDs are very non-linear
2008-01-11 21:37 < mastertop> it uses.. 'variable current' ?
2008-01-11 21:38 < uberpenguin> mastertop: it roughly follows this relationship: I = Is(exp(V/Vt) - 1)
2008-01-11 21:38 < uberpenguin> which is pretty obviously not I = V/R
2008-01-11 21:38 < mastertop> not sure I can understand half of what that means
2008-01-11 21:39 < uberpenguin> it's an exponential function
2008-01-11 21:39 < uberpenguin> Is and Vt are constants
2008-01-11 21:39 < uberpenguin> I and V are the diode voltage and current
2008-01-11 21:40 < mastertop> exp = e^ ?
2008-01-11 21:40 < uberpenguin> this is what a diode current-voltage relationship roughly looks like:
2008-01-11 21:40 < uberpenguin> http://www.mtmi.vu.lt/pfk/funkc_dariniai/images/diod_iv.gif
2008-01-11 21:40 < uberpenguin> a linear resistor is just a straight line which passes through the origin
2008-01-11 21:40 < uberpenguin> mastertop: yes, exp() = e^
2008-01-11 21:40 < Weaselosaurus> o.o
2008-01-11 21:41 < Weaselosaurus> Wtf
2008-01-11 21:41 < Weaselosaurus> anyway
2008-01-11 21:41 < Weaselosaurus> NO MORE ELECTRIC CIRCUITS!
2008-01-11 21:41 < Weaselosaurus> *pouts
2008-01-11 21:41 * Big-Brother watches Weaselosaurus
2008-01-11 21:41 < uberpenguin> 'course, if I wanted to really throw a wrench in your gears, I'd tell you that the diode I-V curve I showed you is still idealized... real diodes don't quite do that
2008-01-11 21:41 < phed__> what is "the many" in latin?
2008-01-11 21:42 < Weaselosaurus> Multitudinis?
2008-01-11 21:42 < phed__> hehe
2008-01-11 21:42 < mastertop> think I'm gonna read a couple of books :p
2008-01-11 21:42 < phed__> "theory of manyness"
2008-01-11 21:42 < phed__> plurality i guess
2008-01-11 21:42 < phed__> plurality of theory :)
2008-01-11 21:43 < Weaselosaurus> multitudo, there
2008-01-11 21:43 < Weaselosaurus> multitudinis is genitive
2008-01-11 21:43 < Weaselosaurus> or dative I think
2008-01-11 21:43 < Weaselosaurus> been a while
2008-01-11 21:46 < Weaselosaurus> "j'étais dur a cuir, on m'a convertiiiiii"
2008-01-11 21:46 < Lycurgus> phed__: I corrected it to Brody: http://bookshop.blackwell.co.uk/jsp/id/The_Philosophy_Behind_Physics/9783540579526
2008-01-11 21:46 < phed__> plurality is correct
2008-01-11 21:46 < mastertop> un dur
2008-01-11 21:46 < phed__> Lycurgus, can you shorten that url?
2008-01-11 21:47 < phed__> can't copy to clipboard atm
2008-01-11 21:47 < phed__> how about "unity science"?
2008-01-11 21:47 < phed__> is that a term?
2008-01-11 21:47 < Weaselosaurus> All-encompassing?
2008-01-11 21:47 < Rinn> Phed: http://tinyurl.com/2blmhq
2008-01-11 21:48 < uberpenguin> phed__: "physics" :P
2008-01-11 21:48 < uberpenguin> physics is the mother of science
2008-01-11 21:48 * Weaselosaurus always hated physics
2008-01-11 21:48 < Lycurgus> phed__: http://tinyurl.com/2blmhq
2008-01-11 21:48 < uberpenguin> or at least, that's what physicists would have you believe
2008-01-11 21:49 < uberpenguin> I never liked physics in high school... it's presented without much motivation
2008-01-11 21:49 < Weaselosaurus> Elle m'emmerde, vous diiiiiiiis-je
2008-01-11 21:50 < uberpenguin> when you find useful applications for physics it becomes more interesting, IMO
2008-01-11 21:50 < Weaselosaurus> so engineering is?
2008-01-11 21:50 < phed__> bah I can't access books :(
2008-01-11 21:50 < phed__> I think physics is too one-dimensional usually
2008-01-11 21:50 < uberpenguin> phed__: or ten dimensional, depending on what you're talking about
2008-01-11 21:50 < Gregory_Lionhear> Heh penguin
2008-01-11 21:51 < Lycurgus> is the person who does tricks with xchat here?
2008-01-11 21:51 < phed__> but is "unity science" a good word?
2008-01-11 21:51 < phed__> Since the 1960's he has been more attracted to the problematic sides of the positivist program about unity science (need a better translation of the term) and in "Pluralist and Possibilist Aspect of the Scientific Enterprise" (1972) positivism is replaced with pluralism. The banner (slogan) er no longer unity-science, but "plurality of theory". At any time, and should, there be a numbers of competing and individually ununitable scientific theories, where a
2008-01-11 21:51 < phed__> ny can be said to be compatible with "reality". While Næss previously perceived the "objective", positivist science as an important tool against the spread of totalitarian politic, which thought with the blood, this science has now become the ruling ideology.
2008-01-11 21:51 < phed__> whops. was longer than it seemed :)
2008-01-11 21:52 < uberpenguin> ... can't help.... philosophy and sociology mostly seem made-up to me
2008-01-11 21:52 < Weaselosaurus> the inherent moral neutrality of science
2008-01-11 21:52 < Lycurgus> as opposed to what uberpenguin?
2008-01-11 21:52 < phed__> that's a mythical concept
2008-01-11 21:52 * Pilotguy sets uberpenguin's hair on fire
2008-01-11 21:52 < uberpenguin> things that make sense in my mind
2008-01-11 21:52 < Lycurgus> such as?
2008-01-11 21:52 < uberpenguin> I could tell you a lovely anecodte about vandalizing a wikipedia sociology article with something that was totally made-up
2008-01-11 21:53 < uberpenguin> and how people bought it and started debating it
2008-01-11 21:53 < phed__> well, I agree with Arne Næss :)
2008-01-11 21:53 < Weaselosaurus> it seems like the market, science at least isn't arbitrary in whom it destroys
2008-01-11 21:53 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- You seem shocked by this for some reason
2008-01-11 21:53 < Lycurgus> yes, but that still wouldn't tell me what you consider not "made up"
2008-01-11 21:53 < Weaselosaurus> so it's a feel-good feeling of neutrality
2008-01-11 21:53 < uberpenguin> Pilotguy: clearly you misinterpret bemusement as surprise
2008-01-11 21:54 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- The Wikipedia community is on crack, end of story
2008-01-11 21:54 < uberpenguin> but it did re-afirm to me that any concept you can articulate in cogent sentences is valid sociology
2008-01-11 21:54 < uberpenguin> I'm... not a fan of soft sciences
2008-01-11 21:54 < Lycurgus> bemusement is surprise in common american usage in spite of the more correct connotation of befuddlement
2008-01-11 21:54 < Lycurgus> mild enjoyable surprise
2008-01-11 21:55 < Scott5114> befuddled + amused = bemused
2008-01-11 21:55 < Weaselosaurus> afuddled
2008-01-11 21:55 < bumm13> sociology would be more useful if it didn't have so much ideological crap in it
2008-01-11 21:55 < Scott5114> I imagine it's a portmanteau word
2008-01-11 21:56 < bumm13> it kind of got taken over by those who are big fans of people like Marx
2008-01-11 21:56 < uberpenguin> bumm13: sociology studies problems which cannot be solved
2008-01-11 21:56 < Pilotguy> bumm13- snort.
2008-01-11 21:56 < uberpenguin> so I sometimes wonder as to its real purpose
2008-01-11 21:56 < bumm13> uberpenguin: as does science, often
2008-01-11 21:56 < Weaselosaurus> Adorno makes a few valid points where Marx makes them.
2008-01-11 21:56 < Pilotguy> So then it's no wonder I'm majoring in it!
2008-01-11 21:56 < Pilotguy> YIPPIE!
2008-01-11 21:57 * Weaselosaurus thinks Marx' work is an accurate description of affairs with somewhat muddled consequences (that were treated extra-wrongly by Lenin)
2008-01-11 21:57 < Weaselosaurus> and Adorno's critique is very sharp
2008-01-11 21:58 < Pilotguy> feh.
2008-01-11 21:58 < uberpenguin> bumm13: yes, but science at least makes progress towards solving the unsolvable problems
2008-01-11 21:58 < uberpenguin> sociology is bounded by politics and peoples' innate stupidity
2008-01-11 21:58 * Pilotguy pats uberpenguin on the back
2008-01-11 21:58 < phed__> Lycurgus, I sent you an email
2008-01-11 21:58 < CakeProphet> :D
2008-01-11 21:59 < Weaselosaurus> lots of useful methods have come out of sociology
2008-01-11 21:59 < Weaselosaurus> especially empiric
2008-01-11 21:59 < phed__> believe it or not, but feminine sciences has brought about a revolution in empiric science in norway
2008-01-11 21:59 < Weaselosaurus> and it would be hard especially for criminal law to live without sociology's help
2008-01-11 22:00 < phed__> especially in R&D
2008-01-11 22:00 < phed__> or S&D as it may be regarded as
2008-01-11 22:00 < Weaselosaurus> in a state thats held to minimize its negative impact on society
2008-01-11 22:00 < Weaselosaurus> negative = repressive in this case
2008-01-11 22:00 < phed__> mm
2008-01-11 22:01 < phed__> too bad the politicians doesn't listen to the recommendations of the sciences of law
2008-01-11 22:01 < phed__> er criminal science
2008-01-11 22:01 < phed__> as it is called here actually
2008-01-11 22:01 < phed__> it is odd
2008-01-11 22:01 < Weaselosaurus> they mostly do here, even though justice ministers tend to be more moderate than most members of government
2008-01-11 22:01 < Weaselosaurus> and are disliked in government for standing in the way of law and order
2008-01-11 22:02 < Weaselosaurus> so I guess academic sociology can at least bring some clarity
2008-01-11 22:02 < Weaselosaurus> into the ideology
2008-01-11 22:02 < phed__> but the term science no longer means "wittenscaph" (damn, how is it spelled?), but the ruling scientific idea.
2008-01-11 22:03 < Weaselosaurus> "that which brings about knowledge" :-)
2008-01-11 22:04 < Weaselosaurus> well, paradigms have always been with us
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> In the doctoral thesis Ekenntnis und wissenschaftliches Verhalten Næss
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> gives a theoretical reasoning for the positivist basical idea that
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> there exists only one understanding form of reality, as the
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> scientific, and that there is one form of science, as the natural
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> sciences. All form for understanding .- traditional philosophy,
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> religion - submits as "meta physics". In later writings, for example
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> Notes on the Foundation of Psychology as a Science (1948), Næss goes
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> into this position.
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> eek
2008-01-11 22:04 < phed__> I thought that was in one paragraph :S
2008-01-11 22:05 < celicni> pleeeaaassseeee.... can anybody here help me with esotheric templates :((((((((((((((
2008-01-11 22:07 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-11 22:07 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: you poked?
2008-01-11 22:07 < phed__> Lycurgus, are you familiar with the Vienna Circle?
2008-01-11 22:09 < NotACow> gurchie!
2008-01-11 22:09 < Rinn> Is that what you get when you cut out the insides of a vienna sausage?
2008-01-11 22:10 < phed__> Lycurgus: Arne Næss entered and left the Vienna Circle. And I lost the book it is stated :(
2008-01-11 22:11 < Weaselosaurus> Wiener shmiener
2008-01-11 22:14 < Lycurgus> phed_, no worries. Yes I am familiar with the Vienna Circle, also did receive your email, thanks.
2008-01-11 22:15 < ALLSTARecho> lol @ Rinn
2008-01-11 22:15 < uberpenguin> mwar
2008-01-11 22:16 < phed__> Lycurgus: :) I hope I'll start working more on the biography section in the article about Arne Næss
2008-01-11 22:16 < Weaselosaurus> "Houchens maintains a popular blog called the Shotgun Marketing BLOG. It is ranked as one of the top 150 marketing blogs in the world by Advertising Age magazine. [7]"
2008-01-11 22:16 < Weaselosaurus> one of the top 150 marketing blogs?
2008-01-11 22:16 < Weaselosaurus> That's like being No. 207 for giraffes
2008-01-11 22:16 * Weaselosaurus reads [[Giraffe]]
2008-01-11 22:19 < Weaselosaurus> eh, seems there aren't any blogs specifically on giraffes
2008-01-11 22:19 < Weaselosaurus> reckless omission
2008-01-11 22:21 < Weaselosaurus> The Internet Place For All Your Giraffe Needs
2008-01-11 22:21 < Weaselosaurus> fun
2008-01-11 22:21 < Weaselosaurus> nm
2008-01-11 22:22 < Chrisgrant> Hello :)
2008-01-11 22:23 < Weaselosaurus> Ello, Polly!
2008-01-11 22:26 * Weaselosaurus considers doing bureaucracy work
2008-01-11 22:26 < phed__> Lycurgus: Reading this I feel there is a case for pseudoscience ;)
2008-01-11 22:26 < phed__> Lycurgus: At least it sets new ground rules for how to treat sciences. There is a bit on this in the existing article on Arne Næss.
2008-01-11 22:27 < phed__> In short I feel the concept of pseudoscience is a cultural historic artifact of american science. And its permeance in the policies are problematic
2008-01-11 22:29 < Lycurgus> Amercian science is first rate. It's relation to the general culture in which it lives is another matter.
2008-01-11 22:32 < phed__> hehe
2008-01-11 22:32 < Weaselosaurus> "its" :-P
2008-01-11 22:33 < phed__> Lycurgus: Heh, his only official biography is a comic book, so it will be interesting to source that. :)
2008-01-11 22:33 < kmccoy> Pick the smarmy guy you hated in high school -- buy your wireless service from Alltel.
2008-01-11 22:34 < phed__> Lycurgus: Well, there is a lot of good american science. But at the same time there is a lot of bad habits in science. For example the lack of open access
2008-01-11 22:35 < Weaselosaurus> He's One Cool Kong!
2008-01-11 22:37 < phed__> Lycurgus: Hmm, is it so that american science can be divided up into the methods that are used?
2008-01-11 22:37 < Lycurgus> your query is unclear.
2008-01-11 22:38 < Lycurgus> EVERYTHING without exception in America is driven by the need of people of already have a lot of money to have still more.
2008-01-11 22:39 < Lycurgus> s/of already/who already/
2008-01-11 22:39 < uberpenguin> what about busses?
2008-01-11 22:39 < Lycurgus> them too.
2008-01-11 22:39 < uberpenguin> if bus drivers are so rich, why do they drive busses?
2008-01-11 22:41 < phed__> bah
2008-01-11 22:41 < Lycurgus> because life is just one big busmans holiday?
2008-01-11 22:41 < phed__> wikipedia should campaign for open access
2008-01-11 22:41 < Luna-San> If they're rich, it would seem that the job pays okay?
2008-01-11 22:41 < uberpenguin> open access to what?
2008-01-11 22:42 < uberpenguin> chic fil-a on sundays? I agree
2008-01-11 22:42 < phed__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_access
2008-01-11 22:42 < phed__> open access to science
2008-01-11 22:43 < uberpenguin> pssh... wikipedia has naught an iota of power to influence the big journals
2008-01-11 22:43 < uberpenguin> nor the organizations behind them
2008-01-11 22:43 < phed__> perhaps the pepople reading wikipedia has
2008-01-11 22:44 < Lycurgus> it's Chick-fil-A
2008-01-11 22:44 < uberpenguin> same thing
2008-01-11 22:44 < Pilotguy> Nooo
2008-01-11 22:44 < Pilotguy> it's notttttt
2008-01-11 22:45 < uberpenguin> sure the readers might, but the question is whether they really give a hoot what the WMF thinks
2008-01-11 22:45 < bumm13> Wikipedia's power is not in attempting to become a scholarly reference
2008-01-11 22:45 < uberpenguin> my solid-state physics professor sometimes comments about "vikipedia"
2008-01-11 22:46 < phed__> uberpenguin, that depends on wether they agree or not
2008-01-11 22:46 < Lycurgus> chic fil-a is a place you can go to bang supermodels
2008-01-11 22:46 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- No one gives a hoot about what the WMF thinks.
2008-01-11 22:46 < uberpenguin> my own anecdotal experience says that most academics in the sciences don't care too much about wikipedia, or view it as sort of a joke
2008-01-11 22:46 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- The WMF is a joke
2008-01-11 22:46 < uberpenguin> Pilotguy: you said it, notn I
2008-01-11 22:46 < uberpenguin> *not I
2008-01-11 22:46 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- Just don't tell anyone that, they'll get offended
2008-01-11 22:48 < bumm13> many non-academics don't care too much about universities, either
2008-01-11 22:48 < uberpenguin> though I did have a public policy professor who actually made us read a wikipedia page... that pissed me off
2008-01-11 22:48 < uberpenguin> bumm13: thus the classical disconnect between science and public perception
2008-01-11 22:48 < YeahWhat> hey
2008-01-11 22:48 < NotACow> MOO
2008-01-11 22:48 < Pilotguy> yeah! WHAT!
2008-01-11 22:49 < uberpenguin> hai
2008-01-11 22:49 < YeahWhat> finally some people
2008-01-11 22:49 < NotACow> OIF!
2008-01-11 22:49 < NotACow> PEOPLE? WHERE?
2008-01-11 22:49 < NotACow> i thought everyone here was a robot?
2008-01-11 22:49 < Pilotguy> THERE!
2008-01-11 22:49 < YeahWhat> here i hope
2008-01-11 22:49 < NotACow> you mean you're not a robot too?
2008-01-11 22:49 < YeahWhat> nope
2008-01-11 22:49 < bumm13> well, when the disdain for "common folk" comes from the top, it's hard to expect the bottom not to reciprocate the sentiment
2008-01-11 22:49 < NotACow> totally weird, man
2008-01-11 22:49 * Pilotguy may or may not be NotARobot
2008-01-11 22:50 < NotACow> bumm13: i think wikipedia should play to its strengths and become the world's best collection of internet memes and other trivia.
2008-01-11 22:50 < YeahWhat> i haven't chatted in years lol
2008-01-11 22:51 < bumm13> zomg roffle
2008-01-11 22:51 < YeahWhat> where's the hacker rooms?
2008-01-11 22:51 < bumm13> #gnaa
2008-01-11 22:51 < YeahWhat> ha
2008-01-11 22:51 < Pilotguy> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
2008-01-11 22:51 < uberpenguin> NotACow: we both well know that wikipedia has no mechanisms which really guide its direction other than the hivemind
2008-01-11 22:51 < uberpenguin> you can't just make wikipedia play to its strengths
2008-01-11 22:51 < bumm13> ugh
2008-01-11 22:51 < uberpenguin> you can't make it do anything
2008-01-11 22:52 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- The trolls control wikipedia now
2008-01-11 22:52 < NotACow> uberpenguin: true. cats do that.
2008-01-11 22:52 < bumm13> you just made an inadvertent reference to Daniel Brandt
2008-01-11 22:52 < YeahWhat> ok blah blah
2008-01-11 22:52 < Weaselosaurus> please, no emo phase
2008-01-11 22:52 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- The only thing the trolls are bringing to FA status are pop culture articles
2008-01-11 22:52 * NotACow sets Weaselosaurus on fire
2008-01-11 22:52 < bumm13> YeahWhat: do you have a Wikipedia question?
2008-01-11 22:52 < YeahWhat> nope
2008-01-11 22:52 < YeahWhat> ha
2008-01-11 22:52 < Weaselosaurus> Thanks, much warmer now-
2008-01-11 22:52 < uberpenguin> Pilotguy: I think you use the word troll liberally... you don't need to convince me that wikipedia is broken or anything
2008-01-11 22:52 < Pilotguy> bumm13- Do you have a Wikipedia question?
2008-01-11 22:53 < YeahWhat> ha
2008-01-11 22:53 < bumm13> hush :P
2008-01-11 22:53 < YeahWhat> ha
2008-01-11 22:53 < Pilotguy> uberpenguin- Oh right, you already know that.
2008-01-11 22:53 * Pilotguy gives uberpenguin a gold star
2008-01-11 22:53 < uberpenguin> depends on how you define broken
2008-01-11 22:53 < YeahWhat> what about wikipedia
2008-01-11 22:53 < uberpenguin> wikipedia is... I don't think it has any real goals or metrics by which to gauge whether it "works" or not
2008-01-11 22:53 < uberpenguin> so, it just is
2008-01-11 22:53 < bumm13> it's as broken as the United States is "broken"
2008-01-11 22:53 < arcimboldo_> YeahWhat: An characteristic of this chat is that the average contribution consists of more then four letters ;)
2008-01-11 22:54 < arcimboldo_> then -> than
2008-01-11 22:54 < YeahWhat> what?
2008-01-11 22:54 < YeahWhat> ha
2008-01-11 22:54 < uberpenguin> hams
2008-01-11 22:54 < Pilotguy> bumm13- Sure why not
2008-01-11 22:54 < uberpenguin> eh? what did he do?
2008-01-11 22:54 < Pilotguy> bumm13- You're on your way to becoming the next ST47!
2008-01-11 22:54 * Pilotguy throws confetti
2008-01-11 22:54 < Weaselosaurus> Funketti
2008-01-11 22:55 < phed__> uberpenguin, I do think science on the subject would recommend that open access was instituted
2008-01-11 22:55 < bumm13> uberpenguin: repeating inane "phrases" just to be disruptive
2008-01-11 22:56 < bumm13> Pilotguy: I've been here way longer than ST47 ;p
2008-01-11 22:56 < Weaselosaurus> what?
2008-01-11 22:56 < Weaselosaurus> What?
2008-01-11 22:56 < Weaselosaurus> :-P
2008-01-11 22:56 < arcimboldo_> erks
2008-01-11 22:56 * bumm13 makes Weaselosaurus into a fur coat
2008-01-11 22:56 < bumm13> :D
2008-01-11 22:56 < uberpenguin> phed__: maybe, but science isn't a social, economic, or political entity and therefore holds little sway over journal publishers
2008-01-11 22:57 < uberpenguin> now, if science would stop being a beggar and get some cash, maybe it could convince some publishers
2008-01-11 22:57 < phed__> uberpenguin: uhm, it is indeed political
2008-01-11 22:57 < arcimboldo_> No candidate debate today? I would have time to watch it.
2008-01-11 22:57 < Weaselosaurus> Weasels aint good to grill
2008-01-11 22:57 < uberpenguin> is it?
2008-01-11 22:57 < uberpenguin> guess that depends on how broad your definition is
2008-01-11 22:57 < phed__> uberpenguin: yes, social sciences do influence politics
2008-01-11 22:57 < Ceiling_Cat> bumm13 - make sure you grease him up before you turn him into a coat
2008-01-11 22:57 < uberpenguin> yeah, but political science isn't a science
2008-01-11 22:57 < Weaselosaurus> would be boring what with only so few Dems left and what with the Republicans impossible to watch
2008-01-11 22:57 < Ceiling_Cat> Weaselosaurus likes to be greased up
2008-01-11 22:57 < bumm13> "Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon...going to the candidates debate"
2008-01-11 22:57 < phed__> uberpenguin: especially costs
2008-01-11 22:58 < phed__> uberpenguin: especially when the science says you can save money by doing so
2008-01-11 22:58 < uberpenguin> they're just ganking the term, similarly to how programmers gank "engineer"
2008-01-11 22:58 < bumm13> gank?
2008-01-11 22:58 < arcimboldo_> I may have to resort to old Dan Quayle clips on Youtube.
2008-01-11 22:58 < bumm13> lol
2008-01-11 22:58 < phed__> uberpenguin: hmf, it is that way over here at least. the buzz-word these days are "knowledge based politics"
2008-01-11 22:58 < uberpenguin> it's a lovely word my friend made up and uses sometimes
2008-01-11 22:58 < Weaselosaurus> "I'm a liberal, but to a degree/if you think I'd let Barry Goldwater move in next to me and marry my daughter/you've got another thing comin'
2008-01-11 22:58 < bumm13> hrmph, he's no linguist :P
2008-01-11 22:58 < uberpenguin> AuH2O!
2008-01-11 22:59 < Weaselosaurus> Danziger Goldwasser!
2008-01-11 22:59 < Weaselosaurus> sorry for saying the Name That Shall Not Be Named
2008-01-11 22:59 < bumm13> gold oxane? ;)
2008-01-11 23:00 < Weaselosaurus> Oksana Goldwater?
2008-01-11 23:00 < Weaselosaurus> Oksana Barrynova Goldwater?
2008-01-11 23:00 * bumm13 's lungs ache :(
2008-01-11 23:00 < Weaselosaurus> Shouldna smoked two cigarettes at once
2008-01-11 23:00 < Weaselosaurus> :-P
2008-01-11 23:00 < bumm13> but I no smoka! :x
2008-01-11 23:01 < Weaselosaurus> like I just read in Onion
2008-01-11 23:01 < bumm13> if I dared try smoking, I'd be dead in no time
2008-01-11 23:01 < bumm13> (my lungs aren't that strong to begin with)
2008-01-11 23:01 < Weaselosaurus> I'd lose my feet, not a nice prospect either
2008-01-11 23:01 < bumm13> arg
2008-01-11 23:01 < Weaselosaurus> "New Smokable Nicotine Sticks: Can They Help Smokers Quit?"
2008-01-11 23:02 < phed__> dance! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbRd3Xpf_GA
2008-01-11 23:02 < Dragonfly6-7> Does anyone have any quesiotns?
2008-01-11 23:02 < Dragonfly6-7> questions
2008-01-11 23:02 < Weaselosaurus> Yes. Where's the beef?
2008-01-11 23:02 < Dragonfly6-7> Thank you. Any others?
2008-01-11 23:03 < Weaselosaurus> Appreciate having had this honest conversation with you.
2008-01-11 23:03 < Dragonfly6-7> Of course.
2008-01-11 23:03 < Lycurgus> gank = go skank
2008-01-11 23:03 * Weaselosaurus puts on skank music
2008-01-11 23:03 < Dragonfly6-7> Lycurgus - please tell me a lie.
2008-01-11 23:04 < Lycurgus> size doesn't matter
2008-01-11 23:04 < Weaselosaurus> He's Abe F*ing Lincoln
2008-01-11 23:04 < Weaselosaurus> oh wait
2008-01-11 23:04 < Weaselosaurus> George F*ing Washington
2008-01-11 23:05 < The359> John Motherfucking Kennedy
2008-01-11 23:05 < Weaselosaurus> I was going for "I cannot tell a lie"
2008-01-11 23:05 < Weaselosaurus> I think that was Washington and the tree
2008-01-11 23:05 < Leslie_S> i fixed my laptop :D :D
2008-01-11 23:05 < Leslie_S> and i have a speedometer/odometer in my car now :)
2008-01-11 23:05 < The359> I always got the two mixed up
2008-01-11 23:05 < The359> especially since Lincoln was "Honest Abe"
2008-01-11 23:06 < Leslie_S> hmm, apparently i wasnt going to come here anymore.
2008-01-11 23:06 < Weaselosaurus> Washington was the one with the wig, Kennedy was the one who looked like he was wearing a toupée
2008-01-11 23:06 < The359> Not Kennedy
2008-01-11 23:06 < The359> I mean the cherry tree and Washington or Lincoln
2008-01-11 23:06 < Weaselosaurus> oh
2008-01-11 23:06 < Weaselosaurus> One of the most enduring myths about George Washington involves him as a young boy chopping down his father's cherry tree and, when asked about it, using the famous line "I cannot tell a lie, I did it with my little hatchet." In fact, there is no evidence that this ever occurred.[56] It, along with the story of Washington throwing a dollar across a river was part of a book of stories...
2008-01-11 23:06 < Weaselosaurus> ...authored by Mason Weems that made Washington a kind of legendary figure.
2008-01-11 23:07 < The359> yeah
2008-01-11 23:07 < Weaselosaurus> "I did it with my little hatchet" sounds sinister indeed
2008-01-11 23:07 < The359> like I said, I always confused that story with Lincoln
2008-01-11 23:07 < The359> and not Washington
2008-01-11 23:08 < Weaselosaurus> yup, Lincoln was still in a Kentucky log cabin without cherry trees, probably
2008-01-11 23:08 < Weaselosaurus> I dunno
2008-01-11 23:08 < The359> I think by that age he was in Indiana
2008-01-11 23:08 < Weaselosaurus> hah
2008-01-11 23:16 < arcimboldo_> "imagine quayle and bush jr leadership team..."
2008-01-11 23:20 < SC_StC> hello spathi
2008-01-11 23:24 * Dragonfly6-7 belches
2008-01-11 23:30 < phed__> Weaselosaurus, it is really a metaphor for him being a victim of sexual harassment from his dad
2008-01-11 23:30 < phed__> and then washington did mean things to his dad
2008-01-11 23:30 < Weaselosaurus> Interesting angle
2008-01-11 23:32 < phed__> hmm, how do I decide wether a source is RS anyway?
2008-01-11 23:32 < phed__> I mean, in pseudoscience articles people tend to say that eg ESJ is bad
2008-01-11 23:32 < phed__> even when it pertains to the subject : \
2008-01-11 23:33 < phed__> JSE I mean, journal of scientific exploration
2008-01-11 23:33 < phed__> So, are there some lists or something?
2008-01-11 23:36 < Weaselosaurus> brb
2008-01-11 23:49 < Tony_Sidaway> NotACow: I get the impression you've given up on Wikipedia
2008-01-11 23:50 < Messedrocker> Tony_Sidaway, did you *just* figure that out?
2008-01-11 23:50 < UninvitedCompany> My goodness, are we talking about Wikipedia???!? I must record this in my Diary of Notable and Unusual Events.
2008-01-11 23:50 * UninvitedCompany gets a pen
2008-01-11 23:51 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: I've had very little communication with Kelly Martin since she resigned as chief clerk.
2008-01-11 23:51 < UninvitedCompany> Kelly what would it take for you to un-giveup on Wikipedia?
2008-01-11 23:52 < Tony_Sidaway> That was approximately 22 months ago.
2008-01-11 23:52 < Messedrocker> UninvitedCompany, probably the equivalent of Christ being born, dying, and resurrected from the dead five times
2008-01-11 23:52 < Messedrocker> s/dying/dead
2008-01-11 23:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: are you Kelly Martin?
2008-01-11 23:52 < UninvitedCompany> Messedrocker: Hmm. Once is enough for me. Ash Wednesday is early this year.
2008-01-11 23:52 < Messedrocker> i'm guessing!
2008-01-11 23:53 < Tony_Sidaway> I could guess. But it's rude to put words into people's mouths.
2008-01-11 23:53 < Leslie_S> hey tony, pm :P
2008-01-11 23:53 < Messedrocker> which is why i ensured no statement of absoluteness
2008-01-11 23:53 < Tony_Sidaway> Also, I could be wrong.
2008-01-11 23:54 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: if anybody ever asks me a question in any forum, please don't openly guess what my answer would be.
2008-01-11 23:55 < Leslie_S> Tony_Sidaway, apparently im not identified, which explains why you didnt get the pms.
2008-01-11 23:55 < Tony_Sidaway> Leslie_S: it's true that body has sent me any private messages tonight.
2008-01-11 23:56 < Tony_Sidaway> And there I must leave you all
2008-01-11 23:56 < Leslie_S> Tony_Sidaway, check pm now though
2008-01-11 23:56 < Leslie_S> ...jerk
2008-01-11 23:56 < Leslie_S> :(
2008-01-11 23:59 < NotACow> i missed a discussion about me?
2008-01-12 00:00 < NotACow> Messedrocker: for the record, you're an ass. hope this helps.
2008-01-12 00:00 < Messedrocker> :D
2008-01-12 00:01 < NotACow> if i had truly given up hope on wikipedia i wouldn't be in here.
2008-01-12 00:02 < Messedrocker> good point
2008-01-12 00:02 < phed__> hmm
2008-01-12 00:03 < Messedrocker> i've mostly given up that the mentality of the administrators will ever improve
2008-01-12 00:03 < UninvitedCompany> Kelly: So how would you characterize your present state of give-uppedness?
2008-01-12 00:03 < Messedrocker> but i'm just in here because it's usually a fun irc channel
2008-01-12 00:03 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: i fear i don't understand the question
2008-01-12 00:03 < Messedrocker> on a scale of 1 to 10 how much have you given up on wikipedia?
2008-01-12 00:03 < Messedrocker> (my question)
2008-01-12 00:04 < SC_StC> 1/10
2008-01-12 00:04 < UninvitedCompany> Do you see yourself as a critic, a former participant, a participant on hiatus, a part of the loyal opposition, or what
2008-01-12 00:04 * NotACow still has hopes for wikipedia
2008-01-12 00:04 * gurch still has huggles
2008-01-12 00:04 * gurch huggles NotACo
2008-01-12 00:04 < gurch> w
2008-01-12 00:04 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: critic and former participant are both accurate
2008-01-12 00:04 * Messedrocker considers himself part of the "Everyone Sucks" team
2008-01-12 00:04 * gurch huggles Messedrocker, also
2008-01-12 00:04 < phed__> hmmhmhmhm
2008-01-12 00:04 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: "hiatus" would imply that i had some intent to return, which isn't the case
2008-01-12 00:04 < UninvitedCompany> Kelly: Is there a short list of particular changes you seek prior to being interested in returning?
2008-01-12 00:05 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: no
2008-01-12 00:05 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: not specifically. it's more an attitude change that is required.
2008-01-12 00:05 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: frankly i doubt that wikipedia's community is either willing or able to make the necessary changes
2008-01-12 00:05 < UninvitedCompany> Not "regime change?"
2008-01-12 00:05 * gurch has such a list
2008-01-12 00:05 * Messedrocker agrees with notacow
2008-01-12 00:05 < gurch> at the top of it is "replace Jimbo with Anthere" :)
2008-01-12 00:06 * Messedrocker probably is looking for other attitude changes, though
2008-01-12 00:06 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: jimbo's departure from the project would, i believe, help considerably, but it is not sufficient and may not be necessary.
2008-01-12 00:06 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: however, i think it is foolish of you to focus on what would lead me to return
2008-01-12 00:06 < Messedrocker> don't ya see? he wants you to come back!
2008-01-12 00:06 * Messedrocker breys
2008-01-12 00:07 < UninvitedCompany> Kelly: We're just talking. It is not a focus.
2008-01-12 00:07 < gurch> focus on huggles
2008-01-12 00:07 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: instead, focus on what you can do to make wikipedia better.
2008-01-12 00:07 < Messedrocker> gurch is right
2008-01-12 00:07 < gurch> what, about huggles?
2008-01-12 00:07 < UninvitedCompany> My focus is broader. It is on how to strengthen the open content movement.
2008-01-12 00:07 < MUNCHLAX> focus on deleting [[glomp]]
2008-01-12 00:07 < Messedrocker> gurch, what the fuck happened to gurchbook?
2008-01-12 00:07 < gurch> nooooo
2008-01-12 00:08 < gurch> Messedrocker: I prefer a redirect
2008-01-12 00:09 < NotACow> gurch: i used to have a list, but i got tired of maintaining it when i realized that none of the items on it would ever take place.
2008-01-12 00:09 < gurch> NotACow: well one of the items on my list was "rollback for non-admins"
2008-01-12 00:09 < NotACow> gurch: congrats, then
2008-01-12 00:09 < gurch> NotACow: but given the fuss it's caused I'd rather it hadn't taken place at all :)
2008-01-12 00:09 < Pilotguy_aw> lol
2008-01-12 00:09 < NotACow> gurch: that was handled badly.
2008-01-12 00:10 < gurch> also on my list is "huggles for all"
2008-01-12 00:10 < NotACow> gurch: but predictably.
2008-01-12 00:10 < gurch> NotACow: indeed it was
2008-01-12 00:10 < UninvitedCompany> Kelly: One of the things I'm doing today is ripping the Mutopia site, because I'm afraid they're going to get a takedown letter from someone and fail to fight it.
2008-01-12 00:10 < Pilotguy> gurch- Now what DOESN'T cause a fuss on WP these days?!?
2008-01-12 00:10 < gurch> NotACow: more importantly, though, it was handled with lolcats
2008-01-12 00:10 < gurch> Pilotguy: rewriting policies
2008-01-12 00:11 < Pilotguy> I'm in ur wikipedia rewritin ur policies?
2008-01-12 00:11 < NotACow> Pilotguy: not much
2008-01-12 00:11 < NotACow> Pilotguy: copyediting :)
2008-01-12 00:12 < gurch> I don't think anyone's even noticed the copyright violation policy yet
2008-01-12 00:12 < MUNCHLAX> i'm in ur meme flogging a dead horse
2008-01-12 00:12 < Pilotguy> exactly
2008-01-12 00:12 < Pilotguy> But, no one does that anymore
2008-01-12 00:12 < gurch> no
2008-01-12 00:12 < gurch> they add templates saying "this article needs copyediting"
2008-01-12 00:12 < gurch> and tell themselves they're doing something useful
2008-01-12 00:12 * Messedrocker explodes
2008-01-12 00:13 < Pilotguy> Cleanup on e-aisle 4
2008-01-12 00:13 < gwern> UninvitedCompany: how are you mirroring their site?
2008-01-12 00:13 < UninvitedCompany> They have an FTP version of their site on ibiblio
2008-01-12 00:13 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: what's mutopia?
2008-01-12 00:14 < UninvitedCompany> Open content sheet music archive. Like IMSLP but the scores are newly typeset, like on PG.
2008-01-12 00:14 < UninvitedCompany> Only it's music, not text.
2008-01-12 00:14 < NedScott> anyone know if it's possible to make an #if conditional in a template that would trigger on a number being even or odd?
2008-01-12 00:14 < NotACow> UninvitedCompany: ah
2008-01-12 00:14 < gwern> sounds like a good project
2008-01-12 00:15 < gwern> UninvitedCompany: any particular reason they couldn't go on WikiSource?
2008-01-12 00:15 < MUNCHLAX> if int(x/2)=x/2? is that supported?
2008-01-12 00:15 < UninvitedCompany> It's amazing how successful publishing companies are in copyrighting the works of, say, J.S. Bach, who died in 1750.
2008-01-12 00:15 < UninvitedCompany> Gwern: Lack of software support for sheet music editing
2008-01-12 00:15 < NedScott> that reminds me
2008-01-12 00:15 < gurch> NedScott: {{#ifeq:{{{1}}} mod 2|1|value if odd|value if even}}
2008-01-12 00:15 < NedScott> I always wanted to make a wiki for legos
2008-01-12 00:15 < NedScott> like logo plans
2008-01-12 00:15 < NedScott> the lego plan that anyone can edit
2008-01-12 00:16 < NedScott> gurch: awesome, thanks
2008-01-12 00:16 < NotACow> heh
2008-01-12 00:16 < gurch> no wait
2008-01-12 00:16 < gurch> that doesn't work
2008-01-12 00:16 < UninvitedCompany> Gwern: The resulting PDFs could go on WikiSource. The original Lilypond markup could, too.
2008-01-12 00:16 < gwern> UninvitedCompany: lilypond support?
2008-01-12 00:16 < NedScott> hmm'
2008-01-12 00:16 < gurch> you need an expr:
2008-01-12 00:16 < gurch> NedScott: {{#ifeq:{{#expr:{{{1}}} mod 2}}|1|value if odd|value if even}}
2008-01-12 00:16 * gwern remembers reading about lilypond. a very nice example of Scheme and using Guile
2008-01-12 00:17 < UninvitedCompany> Gwern: www.lilypond.org
2008-01-12 00:17 < UninvitedCompany> The only open source music typesetting program.
2008-01-12 00:17 < UninvitedCompany> And the only music typesetting program that can be controlled from text-based input that can be edited with standard text editors.
2008-01-12 00:18 * gurch huggles UninvitedCompany
2008-01-12 00:18 < UninvitedCompany> Gwern: In my experience it's the only useful thing that has ever been built using a derivative for LISP, which until I discovered Lilypond I believed was a solution in search of a problem.
2008-01-12 00:18 < UninvitedCompany> s/for/of
2008-01-12 00:19 < Ceiling_Cat> hello UninvitedCompany
2008-01-12 00:19 < UninvitedCompany> Hello
2008-01-12 00:19 < gurch> "I believe that people who want to contribute to Wikipedia but do not wish to become full-fledged admins will benefit from the times when rollback can be used. I welcome discussion on this proposal. :) Talrias (t | e | c) 28 June 2005 20:13 (UTC)"
2008-01-12 00:20 < gurch> well, it only took two and a half years :)
2008-01-12 00:20 < gurch> might want to bear that in mind next time you propose something
2008-01-12 00:20 < gurch> it's likely to be implemented in mid-2010 and result in drama
2008-01-12 00:20 * NotACow fully expects that RFR will develop as much of bizarre culture as RFA has
2008-01-12 00:20 < gurch> NotACow: well, I'm hoping it won't turn into a vote
2008-01-12 00:21 < NotACow> gurch: you know it will
2008-01-12 00:21 < gurch> NotACow: probably no way to prevent stupid requirements accumulating, though
2008-01-12 00:21 < MUNCHLAX> with all its flaws GA somehow avoided becoming a vote
2008-01-12 00:22 < gwern> only because no one cares about it
2008-01-12 00:22 < gwern> when it matters, GA is a vote
2008-01-12 00:22 < gurch> lol
2008-01-12 00:22 < gurch> in november 2005 someone rejected the rollback proposal
2008-01-12 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> MUNCHLAX - my recent experiences with GA have improved my opinion of it
2008-01-12 00:22 < gurch> but they didn't mean to reject it
2008-01-12 00:22 < gurch> they rejected the wrong one
2008-01-12 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> my parallel computing article definitely benefited from being nominated as a GA
2008-01-12 00:23 < Ceiling_Cat> user:Borgqueen did a bang-up job expandifying the history section
2008-01-12 00:23 < Ceiling_Cat> which was, IMO, the biggest impediment to my future (2nd) FA nomination for that article
2008-01-12 00:24 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: you poked me earlier
2008-01-12 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - yes... trying to remember why
2008-01-12 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> oh
2008-01-12 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> I remember
2008-01-12 00:24 < Ceiling_Cat> hold on, lemme see if I can find it again
2008-01-12 00:26 < Ceiling_Cat> argh
2008-01-12 00:26 < Ceiling_Cat> can't find it
2008-01-12 00:28 < Ceiling_Cat> FOUND IT
2008-01-12 00:29 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/11/ron-pauls-record-in-congress.html
2008-01-12 00:30 < Ceiling_Cat> Proving just how crazy he is
2008-01-12 00:30 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: ah. well, there was never any doubt of that
2008-01-12 00:30 < The359> We need someone crazy
2008-01-12 00:31 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - seriously, read it
2008-01-12 00:31 < Ceiling_Cat> there's some scary stuff in there
2008-01-12 00:32 < Ceiling_Cat> he wants to repeal the US dollar. By which I mean, he wants us to have 50 seperate currencies
2008-01-12 00:34 < Ceiling_Cat> his position on every issue can be summed up by wanting to turn the clock back to the 1880s
2008-01-12 00:35 < Messedrocker> please
2008-01-12 00:35 < Messedrocker> more like the 1780s
2008-01-12 00:35 < Ceiling_Cat> Messedrocker - possibly so. I saw he wants to repeal the sherman and clayton antitrust laws, so that puts him back in the 1880s at least
2008-01-12 00:35 < Messedrocker> "the national government collecting money from the STATES? bolderdash!"
2008-01-12 00:36 < Messedrocker> "they can collect it out of my ass!"
2008-01-12 00:36 < NotACow> wow. he would repeal ius solis!
2008-01-12 00:36 < Ceiling_Cat> yes
2008-01-12 00:36 < NotACow> Ceiling_Cat: in some case further back than 1880. ius solis goes back to roman era.
2008-01-12 00:36 < Ceiling_Cat> he wants to take away your citizenship
2008-01-12 00:37 < Ceiling_Cat> NotACow - I think Malta is the only place on earth that doesn't have that now
2008-01-12 00:37 < Ceiling_Cat> btw, [[ius solis]] is a red link
2008-01-12 00:37 * Not_the_NSA jumps but is unable to touch Ceiling_Cat
2008-01-12 00:39 < Ceiling_Cat> ah
2008-01-12 00:39 * Ceiling_Cat redirects to [[Jus soli]]
2008-01-12 00:46 < phed__> bah, I should have edited that biopsychiatry article instead of wasting all night : \
2008-01-12 00:47 < phed__> seems like it is my turn to edit it
2008-01-12 00:49 < phed__> It's a mess now :(
2008-01-12 00:51 < Vincent> hi
2008-01-12 00:52 < Vincent> amynpdu
2008-01-12 00:52 < Vincent> anybody
2008-01-12 01:04 < Pilotguy_aw> phed__- How typical.
2008-01-12 01:10 < phed__> Pilotguy_aw: Well, half the page was deleted over the course of the last month. And now I have to verify everything all over. : \
2008-01-12 01:11 < Pilotguy_aw> :(
2008-01-12 01:11 < phed__> Pilotguy_aw: And I am still learning about the subject, which makes it hard to find a good flow.
2008-01-12 01:11 < phed__> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychiatry_controversy - If you wanna see
2008-01-12 01:11 < phed__> it completely lacks a narrative
2008-01-12 01:11 < phed__> but I'll be getting a current history of psychiatry that deals with the paradigm shift
2008-01-12 01:13 < phed__> some editor believed it was a povfork for pseudoscience -_-
2008-01-12 01:14 < Pilotguy_aw> typical yet again
2008-01-12 01:15 < phed__> But the article needs a new narrative compared to the old anyway
2008-01-12 01:22 * Drunken_Idiot hugs kila
2008-01-12 01:22 < Drunken_Idiot> Hya all
2008-01-12 01:26 < FastLizard4> {{Db-userreq}} is for CSD-U1, right?
2008-01-12 01:26 < Pilotguy> sure why not
2008-01-12 01:27 < FastLizard4> ok
2008-01-12 01:27 < Pilotguy> ok!
2008-01-12 01:27 < FastLizard4> Oh noes, Changes newer than 12 seconds may not be shown in this list. Database lag!