freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-11 18:46 < Dtobias> Put all males in jail!
2008-01-11 18:47 < mavhk> your reply: "a perpetrator of awesomeness"
2008-01-11 18:47 < Dtobias> (but that would include me)
2008-01-11 18:47 < Weaselosaurus> heh
2008-01-11 18:47 < Weaselosaurus> no, that's "purveyor" :-P
2008-01-11 18:47 < Dtobias> feminazi
2008-01-11 18:47 < mavhk> sorry, I'm too awesome to read a dictionary
2008-01-11 18:48 < mavhk> "one who commits an offence", I'm sure people find my awesomeness offensive
2008-01-11 18:49 < Weaselosaurus> Maybe she said "rapist by default", I don't remember
2008-01-11 18:49 < Weaselosaurus> luckily such people aren't very frequent
2008-01-11 18:49 < mavhk> Weaselosaurus: well, they're not likely to breed
2008-01-11 18:50 < Weaselosaurus> Correct.
2008-01-11 18:50 < Weaselosaurus> brb
2008-01-11 18:51 < Alkivar> wow i thought i'd seen poor ad placement before
2008-01-11 18:51 < Alkivar> this takes the cake
2008-01-11 18:51 < Alkivar> http://www.adrants.com/images/iomega_burn_baby.jpg
2008-01-11 18:51 < Weaselosaurus> o.O
2008-01-11 18:51 < Weaselosaurus> Disturbing.
2008-01-11 18:51 < mavhk> generic
2008-01-11 18:52 < Weaselosaurus> *evil cackling in the background
2008-01-11 18:52 < Lobster> bet it's fake
2008-01-11 18:53 < Lobster> reason one: smh.com.au doesn't seem like the ideal target audience for iomega
2008-01-11 18:53 < Lobster> reason two: competent photoshoppers who surf the web do seem like the ideal target audience for iomega
2008-01-11 18:54 < Alkivar> actually thats real... and its also real old
2008-01-11 18:54 < Alkivar> from 2004
2008-01-11 18:54 < Alkivar> heh
2008-01-11 18:54 < Cyrius> is iomega even still in business? =)
2008-01-11 18:54 < Lobster> what probably happened was someone saw the ad, thought about the possible double entendre and found that site to superimpose it on
2008-01-11 18:54 < NotASpy> apparently they are, I had the same thought a few weeks back.
2008-01-11 18:55 < NotASpy> I was wondering if they still made those Zip drives and stuff.
2008-01-11 18:55 < mavhk> they make removable harddrive spindles for backup now
2008-01-11 18:55 < Alkivar> http://www.asciimation.co.nz/bender/index.html
2008-01-11 18:55 < Alkivar> thats pretty fun of a project
2008-01-11 18:55 < Alkivar> page 2 is cooler
2008-01-11 18:55 < Lobster> NotASpy: they still sell them
2008-01-11 18:56 < Lobster> but they probably have plenty of stock to draw from after it bombed :P
2008-01-11 18:56 < Lobster> so i doubt they make much
2008-01-11 18:56 < NotASpy> apparently so. I was quite disappointed by that, utter crap that they were.
2008-01-11 18:57 < Lobster> to their credit, it was the first time anyone had seen 250MB that portable
2008-01-11 18:57 < mavhk> scsi zip drives had a 25 pin connector too, retarded as the spec says 50 pin
2008-01-11 18:57 < NotASpy> Zip disks - backup media more likely to fail than a hard drive, and when it fails, data loss is a fair bet. Urgh.
2008-01-11 18:57 < Lobster> unfortunately, we didn't really know what to do with 250MB right then, and then cd-rs came around and blew zip out of the water
2008-01-11 18:58 < NotASpy> they tried to corner the market with Iomaga branded CDRWs too. That failed, because they were extremely overpriced.
2008-01-11 18:58 < Cyrius> 100 MB
2008-01-11 18:58 < Cyrius> the 250 MB zip came later
2008-01-11 18:58 < mavhk> the REV drive is the only interesting thing they do know, it's a removable hd spindle, the read heads stay in the drive unit
2008-01-11 18:59 < Cyrius> mavhk: meh, the Jaz drives worked that way too
2008-01-11 18:59 < Cyrius> and sucked
2008-01-11 18:59 < quanticle> Heh. The ZIP drive failed because it was introduced only about a year before the CD-R
2008-01-11 18:59 < NotASpy> they also had a 1 or 2Gb unit too, was that the Jazz ?
2008-01-11 18:59 < uberpenguin> haha, wow
2008-01-11 18:59 < Cyrius> NotASpy: that's the Jaz
2008-01-11 18:59 < uberpenguin> did you know that some tire places are trying to sell you on filling your tires with N2 rather than air?
2008-01-11 18:59 < NotASpy> and there was a dreadful tape streamer which wouldn't detect tapes.
2008-01-11 18:59 < Messedrocker> quanticle, but many years after the CD-i!
2008-01-11 18:59 < uberpenguin> boy what they won't do to pry a few more bucks out of your wallet
2008-01-11 18:59 < Messedrocker> Here's the problem! Too many toasters!
2008-01-11 19:00 < Messedrocker> You know what they say! All toasters toast toast!
2008-01-11 19:00 < quanticle> Messedrocker: What on earth was the CD-i?
2008-01-11 19:00 < NotASpy> the tape streamer was a black coloured box o'crap.
2008-01-11 19:00 < Messedrocker> quanticle, a source of a copious amount of lulz on youtube
2008-01-11 19:00 < Cyrius> quanticle: "interactive"
2008-01-11 19:00 < Messedrocker> look up the CD-interactive on wikipedia
2008-01-11 19:00 * shimgray has some of the old zip discs
2008-01-11 19:00 < Luna-San> I think I'll just stick with tape backups
2008-01-11 19:00 < shimgray> at university, we also had some of those really weird 120MB "super-floppy-disc" drives. anyone remember those?
2008-01-11 19:00 < Cyrius> quanticle: imagine DVD menus as a standalone product =)
2008-01-11 19:01 < Sceptre> Luna-San: PM
2008-01-11 19:01 < quanticle> Messedrocker: It looks rather a bit like the old Laserdisc games
2008-01-11 19:01 < shimgray> ah, LS-120
2008-01-11 19:02 < NotASpy> shimgray: oh yeah, wasn't Imation behind them ?
2008-01-11 19:02 < shimgray> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperDisk - all the machines in the labs had them, c. 2000. bit of a technological dead end
2008-01-11 19:02 < Messedrocker> quanticle, you should see how they handled their licenses from Nintendo :O
2008-01-11 19:04 < NotASpy> I once had a computer with a Panasonic PD drive. That was good, a 640Mb magneto-optical disk thing, like a CD but in a brown plastic caddy, looked like a big floppy disk in some respects.
2008-01-11 19:04 < mavhk> "However the Jaz design did not put the drive motor in the cartridge"
2008-01-11 19:04 < mavhk> dvd-ram is the new PD
2008-01-11 19:05 < Messedrocker> magneto-optical?
2008-01-11 19:05 < Messedrocker> o_O
2008-01-11 19:05 < AzaTht> ok, have added UTCLiveClock and JSL to gadgets
2008-01-11 19:06 < NotASpy> ah yes, the Iomega Tape Drive was called the Ditto.
2008-01-11 19:08 < mavhk> wasn't MO
2008-01-11 19:08 < mavhk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-change_Dual
2008-01-11 19:09 < NotASpy> yeah, I was reading that, I was sure it was touted as an MO disk, I'm clearly wrong and thinking about something different.
2008-01-11 19:10 < NotASpy> ah, and Iomega called their CD writer the Zip 650 which makes no sense at all.
2008-01-11 19:11 < mavhk> at least anything that's not SD cards are dying out
2008-01-11 19:12 < mavhk> which gives us usb flash, sd flash, harddrives, cds, dvds, bluray, 6 format isn't too bad
2008-01-11 19:13 < quanticle> Heh. There's going to be a HDDVD-RAM
2008-01-11 19:13 < bumm13> Messedrocker: ah, the travesties that were 3DO and CD-i? ;)
2008-01-11 19:13 < Messedrocker> IT PLUGS INTO THE FUTURE!!!!!
2008-01-11 19:13 < Messedrocker> -- creator of the 3DO
2008-01-11 19:13 * Messedrocker is trying a setup whereby half of his screen is IRC, the other half is web browser
2008-01-11 19:14 < Messedrocker> can't go wrong!
2008-01-11 19:14 < Messedrocker> except for youtube videos!
2008-01-11 19:14 < NotASpy> I hate having my screen setup like that.
2008-01-11 19:14 < debian-is-me> I want to store all my files in ram
2008-01-11 19:15 < Luna-San> Or just get two screens. :o
2008-01-11 19:15 < debian-is-me> Will it be faster than hd?
2008-01-11 19:15 < quanticle> debian-is-me: It will be much faster, but saving will be a problem
2008-01-11 19:15 < Dtobias> Use 5 1/4" floppies. (Single sided, single density)
2008-01-11 19:16 < NotASpy> mavhk: should be interesting to see how companies like Canon go with their next generation of cameras, like the EOS 450D, will they stay with CompactFlash or will they add in SD support.
2008-01-11 19:16 < Messedrocker> that's 180KB isn't it?
2008-01-11 19:17 < Dtobias> Punch an extra notch in them against the manufacturer's advice so you can flip them over and use the back side too.
2008-01-11 19:17 < Dtobias> I think early Apple II DOS 3.2 SS/SD floppies held about 110K, or something like that.
2008-01-11 19:18 < thedj> ok, where is the latest on rollback? i can't find what the current status is after Anthere told everyone off...
2008-01-11 19:19 < Rinn> Someone must've rollbacked the rollback article.
2008-01-11 19:20 < quanticle> Aww man, someone got rid of the WP:WALMART redirect
2008-01-11 19:20 < Messedrocker> what did that go towards?
2008-01-11 19:20 < mavhk> Messedrocker: it's better if they overlap, irc only needs a few lines most of the time
2008-01-11 19:20 < quanticle> Messedrocker: WP:RFR
2008-01-11 19:20 < mavhk> but most OSes suck at overlapping windows
2008-01-11 19:20 < Messedrocker> i don't get it
2008-01-11 19:23 < NotASpy> their advertising slogan is "Always rolling back prices" or something, I believe.
2008-01-11 19:23 < bumm13> :P
2008-01-11 19:24 < mastertop> if I charge a capacitor with 1Ah at 1V and then with 1Ah at 3V, will the capacitor then give 2V?
2008-01-11 19:24 < Messedrocker> V^2/R
2008-01-11 19:24 < Messedrocker> :P
2008-01-11 19:24 < mastertop> resistance?
2008-01-11 19:24 < Messedrocker> R does indeed stand for resistance
2008-01-11 19:25 < Messedrocker> usually measured in ohms
2008-01-11 19:25 < mastertop> how is that related to the capacitor?
2008-01-11 19:26 < Messedrocker> V = IR
2008-01-11 19:26 < Dtobias> Ohm, ohm on the range
2008-01-11 19:26 < debian-is-me> Why wont my ide driv work when it is not lying straingth?
2008-01-11 19:26 * Messedrocker dabbled into electrical engineering in september and october of last year but forgot a lot of it
2008-01-11 19:27 < mastertop> how long does a capacitor hold it's stored energy?
2008-01-11 19:27 < Messedrocker> a while
2008-01-11 19:27 < Messedrocker> you can discharge a capacitor with a screwdriver, though
2008-01-11 19:27 < Messedrocker> (be sure to hold it by the insulated end :)
2008-01-11 19:28 < mastertop> a while... that's a few hours? or it really depends a lot of the capacitor?
2008-01-11 19:28 < Messedrocker> perhaps several weeks!
2008-01-11 19:28 < mastertop> that's cool.
2008-01-11 19:29 < Messedrocker> spaces is neat
2008-01-11 19:29 < mastertop> spaces?
2008-01-11 19:29 < Dtobias> Space... the final frontier!
2008-01-11 19:30 < Messedrocker> mastertop, a feature of Mac OS 10.5
2008-01-11 19:30 < mastertop> oh.
2008-01-11 19:30 < Messedrocker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaces_%28software%29
2008-01-11 19:31 < Weaselosaurus> but it's made in a Hollywood basement
2008-01-11 19:31 < Messedrocker> hmmm
2008-01-11 19:32 < Messedrocker> my fourth space is being unused
2008-01-11 19:32 < Messedrocker> maybe if i get parallels or vmware fusion...
2008-01-11 19:32 < bumm13> virtual desktops are nothing new
2008-01-11 19:32 < Messedrocker> they're not
2008-01-11 19:32 < Messedrocker> they're new to me though
2008-01-11 19:32 < debian-is-me> How can I obtain a free computer?
2008-01-11 19:32 < Weaselosaurus> what does -bbbb mean?
2008-01-11 19:32 < Messedrocker> Weaselosaurus, -b * 4
2008-01-11 19:32 < bumm13> -ban -ban -ban -ban
2008-01-11 19:33 < Weaselosaurus> oh, multiple unblock
2008-01-11 19:33 < bumm13> :)
2008-01-11 19:33 < Weaselosaurus> okeh
2008-01-11 19:33 < Dtobias> Look through the dumpsters for somebody throwing one out.
2008-01-11 19:33 < Messedrocker> on IRC it's called a ban
2008-01-11 19:33 < Dtobias> It's probably crap though.
2008-01-11 19:33 < LOUD_CAT> MESSEDROCKER!!!
2008-01-11 19:33 * LOUD_CAT HUGGLES
2008-01-11 19:33 < Messedrocker> hi gurbungly
2008-01-11 19:34 < mastertop> I heard a capacitor loses of it's voltage (from the charge it holds) as it's 'uncharged'
2008-01-11 19:34 < mastertop> is it true?
2008-01-11 19:34 < Ceiling_Cat> mastertop - can you repeat that question a little more coherently
2008-01-11 19:34 * Ceiling_Cat can't parse it
2008-01-11 19:35 < Ceiling_Cat> also, defined 'uncharged'
2008-01-11 19:35 < Ceiling_Cat> define*
2008-01-11 19:36 < mastertop> let's say you charge a capacitor with 2 volts. The capacitor will then give back 2 volts *constantly* right?
2008-01-11 19:36 < Ceiling_Cat> No
2008-01-11 19:36 < Ceiling_Cat> it will have an exponential decay
2008-01-11 19:36 < Ceiling_Cat> starting at two volts
2008-01-11 19:36 < Ceiling_Cat> and decreasing to 0
2008-01-11 19:37 < mastertop> that's bad :(
2008-01-11 19:37 * Weaselosaurus thought someone had found a perpetuum mobile
2008-01-11 19:37 < Messedrocker> Ceiling_Cat, emulating 64-bit software in 32-bit environment will result in a throughput cut in half, right?
2008-01-11 19:37 < Ceiling_Cat> mastertop- I should clarify
2008-01-11 19:37 < debian-is-me> Why doesnt everything use 1 volt? Wouldnt that be easyer?
2008-01-11 19:37 < Ceiling_Cat> It will retain 2 volts as long as it's disconnected
2008-01-11 19:37 < mastertop> I'd be curious seeing a capacitor benchmark
2008-01-11 19:37 < Ceiling_Cat> and well insulated
2008-01-11 19:38 < Ceiling_Cat> once you connect it to a circuit (for example, containing a resister) you get the exponential decay
2008-01-11 19:38 < Ceiling_Cat> (it's been 6 years since I took circuits so I'm a bit rusty)
2008-01-11 19:38 < Ceiling_Cat> Messedrocker - uh, it depends
2008-01-11 19:38 < mastertop> and if there's an on off switch in the circuit, it shouldn't draw power at all from the capacitor
2008-01-11 19:38 < mastertop> right?
2008-01-11 19:39 < Messedrocker> Ceiling_Cat, assuming it's done the TRS-80 way
2008-01-11 19:39 < mastertop> (or -almost- not)
2008-01-11 19:39 < Ceiling_Cat> Messedrocker - if it's heavily computational code, and the code relies havily on double or long, then yes
2008-01-11 19:39 < Ceiling_Cat> TRS-80?
2008-01-11 19:40 < Ceiling_Cat> mastertop - if the capacitor is charged and then disconnected, assuming the capacitor is well insultated, it should not leak charge
2008-01-11 19:40 < Ceiling_Cat> thus, it will retain its voltage
2008-01-11 19:40 < Dtobias> Also known as the Trash-80.
2008-01-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> i am contemplating selling my N64 cart of Super Mario 64
2008-01-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> and then buying it off the virtual console
2008-01-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> do you think i could get at least $10 for one of the best games ever made?
2008-01-11 19:41 < mastertop> when used, does the voltage drop proportionnally to the ammount of current used?
2008-01-11 19:41 < Messedrocker> (likewise for Mario Kart 64)
2008-01-11 19:42 < Ceiling_Cat> mastertop - see [[RC circuit]]
2008-01-11 19:42 < Crimedog> Which is why tandy eventually switched to PCs
2008-01-11 19:42 < Ceiling_Cat> that's for a simple resistor-capacitor circuit
2008-01-11 19:43 < mastertop> thanks, got to go
2008-01-11 19:46 < Ceiling_Cat> Woohoo
2008-01-11 19:46 < Ceiling_Cat> Network Solutiosn got nailed for DNS frontrunning
2008-01-11 19:46 < Ceiling_Cat> bastards
2008-01-11 19:47 < Ceiling_Cat> at least they've decided to discontinue the practice
2008-01-11 19:47 < Messedrocker> domain speculators should get punched in the mouth!
2008-01-11 19:47 < Ceiling_Cat> Messedrocker - this is worse than that
2008-01-11 19:47 < Ceiling_Cat> it's the internet equivalent of insider trading
2008-01-11 19:47 < Messedrocker> >:O
2008-01-11 19:47 < Messedrocker> SPARTA!
2008-01-11 19:47 < Ceiling_Cat> wtf is dircbot up to?
2008-01-11 19:48 < Ceiling_Cat> in fact, why do we have a bot op in here in the first place?
2008-01-11 19:48 < Messedrocker> dirca dirca
2008-01-11 19:49 < debian-is-me> To bitch about things
2008-01-11 19:49 < debian-is-me> To ban spaming pieces of shit with fucking bad language
2008-01-11 19:49 < thedj> cool, i hit >10000 edits recently
2008-01-11 19:49 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: cleans out old bans so we don't have the full banlist problem
2008-01-11 19:49 < thedj> Total edits 10404
2008-01-11 19:49 < Ceiling_Cat> full banlist?
2008-01-11 19:50 < Ceiling_Cat> Is there a limit to the banlist?
2008-01-11 19:50 < Cyrius> duh
2008-01-11 19:50 < Cyrius> and we hit it frequently
2008-01-11 19:50 < debian-is-me> Small harddrive?
2008-01-11 19:50 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - I was not aware of this. What's the limit?
2008-01-11 19:50 < mavhk> thedj: how many articles written?
2008-01-11 19:50 < debian-is-me> So if I get banned 12000 times, I cannot get banned again?
2008-01-11 19:50 < thedj> mavhk: few
2008-01-11 19:50 < Cyrius> I have no idea, but it's small enough that we hit it
2008-01-11 19:50 < Ceiling_Cat> debian-is-me - no, you get autorem'd
2008-01-11 19:50 < Ceiling_Cat> and then you're screwed
2008-01-11 19:50 < thedj> mavhk: i do more cleanup. template work, stuff like that.
2008-01-11 19:51 < Ceiling_Cat> and if we're in a particularly foul mood, we ask a freenode staffer to kline you
2008-01-11 19:51 < debian-is-me> kline?
2008-01-11 19:51 < Cyrius> server-level ban
2008-01-11 19:51 < Cyrius> can't even connect
2008-01-11 19:51 < tomaw> Cyrius: network, on freenode
2008-01-11 19:51 < debian-is-me> damn
2008-01-11 19:51 < Ceiling_Cat> kline = you can't log onto Freenode anymore
2008-01-11 19:51 < tomaw> Ceiling_Cat: but we don't do that on a whim
2008-01-11 19:51 < Cyrius> tomaw: damned IRC non-standard
2008-01-11 19:51 < Ceiling_Cat> right
2008-01-11 19:51 < debian-is-me> UNtill I change computer?
2008-01-11 19:52 < Cyrius> (which is distinct from non-standard IRC)
2008-01-11 19:52 < debian-is-me> Or untill I change ip?
2008-01-11 19:52 < shimgray> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ani_DiFranco - I sense a small problem with the lead here.
2008-01-11 19:52 < shimgray> "She is known as a prolific artist (having released nineteen albums)[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] ..."
2008-01-11 19:52 < thedj> mavhk: but quite unique i think, i hit that number without doing much vandalpatrol work either. so i guess that makes me pretty unique :D
2008-01-11 19:52 < thedj> and that's why i don't write articles....
2008-01-11 19:53 < thedj> was that even english ?
2008-01-11 19:53 < debian-is-me> Ani DiFranco (pronounced /ˈɑːniː/) (born Angela Maria Difranco on September 23, 1970) is a singer, guitarist, and songwriter. She is known as a prolific artist (having released nineteen albums)[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10]
2008-01-11 19:53 < debian-is-me> And none for the last part
2008-01-11 19:53 < Ceiling_Cat> BRB
2008-01-11 19:53 < debian-is-me> But many good reliabole sources is good
2008-01-11 19:55 < Tony_Sidaway> I watched a programme on my television set.
2008-01-11 19:55 < debian-is-me> Why is wikipedia npt giving me pagerank?
2008-01-11 19:55 < debian-is-me> Is it t
2008-01-11 19:55 < Tony_Sidaway> It was about Doctor Who.
2008-01-11 19:55 < debian-is-me> First it steals my work, then I dont benifit from it
2008-01-11 19:55 < debian-is-me> Wikipedia is evil
2008-01-11 19:56 < Tony_Sidaway> He found out that, despite believing himself to be Lowland Scots, he was descended from crofters on Mull.
2008-01-11 19:57 < Tony_Sidaway> Moreover (and this pained him deeply as a self-confessed Guardian-reading liberal) he found that the other side of his family, in Northern Ireland, had all been rabid Orangemen.
2008-01-11 19:57 < debian-is-me> Wickedpedia
2008-01-11 19:58 < thedj> debian-is-me: what is your problem? if you have an issue, go take care of it. IRC is not the place to where you should bring your issue.
2008-01-11 19:58 < Tony_Sidaway> It must have been like finding out that your grandfather was Ian Paisley.
2008-01-11 20:00 < mastertop> Ceiling_Cat?
2008-01-11 20:01 < shimgray> Tony_Sidaway: I have worse. I found out my great-uncle had the chance to kill Ian Paisley *and didn't*
2008-01-11 20:01 < shimgray> (I feel a sense of familial shame over this)
2008-01-11 20:02 < shimgray> admittedly, it sounds less dramatic when I say "he braked"
2008-01-11 20:02 < shimgray> but, still, if only he'd been thinking...
2008-01-11 20:05 < mastertop> I've thought of something ; after use, batteries' voltage diminish and so does capacitors'. Does capacitor's voltage diminish much faster than batteries?
2008-01-11 20:05 < Triona> mastertop: capacitors can discharge much more quickly than batteries
2008-01-11 20:05 < Triona> note *can*
2008-01-11 20:06 < Triona> the discharge curve however is a sudden drop IIRC
2008-01-11 20:06 < Triona> a capacitor is either releasing current or it isn't
2008-01-11 20:06 < mastertop> what do you mean as in discharge? are you talking about voltage or charge in coulombs? (Ah)
2008-01-11 20:06 < Triona> and I think capacitiors need external regulation
2008-01-11 20:07 < Triona> they will just let their entire charge go at once in the absence of some electrical regulation
2008-01-11 20:08 < mastertop> electrical regulation ? :S
2008-01-11 20:08 < Triona> a capacitor actually stores electrons... a battery uses a chemical reaction to release electrons
2008-01-11 20:08 < Triona> you need voltage regulating circutry if you are using a capacitor as a power supply
2008-01-11 20:08 < Triona> usually in the form of resistors
2008-01-11 20:09 < Triona> sometimes in the form of voltage regulator ICs
2008-01-11 20:10 < Triona> some can actually dump their charge into their leads fast enough to melt themselves
2008-01-11 20:10 * FastLizard4 has entered the wiki
2008-01-11 20:12 < mastertop> why wouldn't I let the capacitor output the voltage I gave it?
2008-01-11 20:12 < Triona> it has no memory of what voltage it was charged from
2008-01-11 20:13 < mastertop> it then transforms the voltage???
2008-01-11 20:13 < Triona> all it does is try to dump it's charge down the leads once a circuit is complete
2008-01-11 20:13 * Ceiling_Cat returns
2008-01-11 20:13 < Triona> it's stored potential
2008-01-11 20:13 < Triona> not a transformer
2008-01-11 20:14 < Triona> it's not like a battery where the design of the cell and the inherent chemical reaction limits the output
2008-01-11 20:14 < mastertop> Aren't you saying a capacitor I charged with a 1.5V battery could *unleash* "as many volts as possible" ?
2008-01-11 20:14 < Triona> it's just electrons sandwiched between metal plates.
2008-01-11 20:14 < Triona> and as much current as possible
2008-01-11 20:15 < Triona> without some source of resistance, it's going to go against the only resistance it finds ustil it can dump it's charge
2008-01-11 20:15 < Triona> and that would be the leads
2008-01-11 20:15 < Triona> depending on capacity, it's either going to fully discharge in a matter of milliseconds, heat the leads so much they act as a fuse, or explode
2008-01-11 20:16 < mastertop> that seems to go against what Ceiling_Cat was saying
2008-01-11 20:16 < Triona> capacitors are pure storage
2008-01-11 20:17 < quanticle> Triona: Right. However, a battery has an inherent limitation in the amount of current it can dispense at one time. Capacitors, as you point out, are only limited by the wires that they're connected to
2008-01-11 20:17 < Cyrius> real-world capacitors have current limits
2008-01-11 20:17 < Triona> it's a refinement of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyden_jar
2008-01-11 20:18 < quanticle> Cyrius: Right, but a capacitor has much higher limits on current rate as its a physical device rather than a chemical one
2008-01-11 20:18 < mastertop> so, you're saying that if I disconnect a fully charged capacitor, it'll discharge itself through it's leads?
2008-01-11 20:18 < Triona> disconnected, no
2008-01-11 20:19 < Triona> it will discharge slowly through current leakage
2008-01-11 20:19 < mastertop> wouldn't there be "no" resistance?
2008-01-11 20:19 < Triona> if you then short the leads, it will discharge almost instantly
2008-01-11 20:19 < Triona> air contains moisture
2008-01-11 20:19 < Triona> so, there's very limited conductivity
2008-01-11 20:19 < quanticle> mastertop: If you disconnect the leads, you're breaking the circuit, so resistance is infinite
2008-01-11 20:20 < Triona> resistance is near infinite
2008-01-11 20:20 < Triona> not completely
2008-01-11 20:20 < Cyrius> very very large
2008-01-11 20:20 < mastertop> oh. i see.
2008-01-11 20:20 < Triona> but, low enough to be below measurable
2008-01-11 20:20 < quanticle> Triona: Right. For all practical purposes, though it can be considered infinite, even though current does leak
2008-01-11 20:20 < Triona> a capacitor can actually lose (or gain) a charge in such a state
2008-01-11 20:20 < mastertop> if the circuit is a single wire.. it will discharge very fast..
2008-01-11 20:20 < Triona> the reason they can gain a charge is they are well designed to absorb static electricity.
2008-01-11 20:21 < quanticle> mastertop: Yes. My physics teacher bridged a capacitor once with a screwdriver and melted the tip
2008-01-11 20:21 < mastertop> that sure is cool :p
2008-01-11 20:21 < Triona> which is why a large capacitor, even one you've discharged, can become dangerous again after a few days on the shelf
2008-01-11 20:21 < quanticle> mastertop: The spark was indeed spectacular
2008-01-11 20:22 < quanticle> Triona: Well, only if you don't store it with a wire connecting the terminals
2008-01-11 20:22 < Triona> true.
2008-01-11 20:22 < Triona> as is certianly advisable
2008-01-11 20:22 < Triona> the ones in a CRT being an especially dangerous example
2008-01-11 20:22 < JohnReaves> Anyone know why I see a little exclamation mark on the Wikipedia favicon?
2008-01-11 20:23 < Triona> because the tube actually works as a collector
2008-01-11 20:23 < quanticle> Triona: That's why they tell you not to open CRTs. That and the high-voltage transformers...
2008-01-11 20:23 < Weaselosaurus> Long-Lost Jules Verne Short Story 'The Camera-Phone' Found
2008-01-11 20:24 < Weaselosaurus> öpö
2008-01-11 20:24 < Weaselosaurus> err
2008-01-11 20:24 < Weaselosaurus> lol
2008-01-11 20:24 < Weaselosaurus> wow, I hate it when people say "ok" in messenger conversations
2008-01-11 20:24 < Weaselosaurus> it is rude
2008-01-11 20:24 < quanticle> Weaselosaurus: Hmmm, why?
2008-01-11 20:24 < mastertop> does capacitor's 'voltage diminishing' depends on time or percentage of current drawn?
2008-01-11 20:25 < Weaselosaurus> it stops conversation, it seems aloof and uninteresting
2008-01-11 20:25 < Weaselosaurus> if you composed three lines, asking for an opinion
2008-01-11 20:25 < quanticle> mastertop: Capacitors can only store so much charge, so voltage diminishes in proportion to charge drawn
2008-01-11 20:25 < Triona> quanticle: *nods* more than one tv repairman has made a fatal mistake
2008-01-11 20:25 < Weaselosaurus> *uninterested
2008-01-11 20:26 < quanticle> Weaselosaurus: I think it comes from people treating IM the same as phone, where saying "ok" signals that you're listening and interested...
2008-01-11 20:26 < Triona> quanticle: actually, a regulated voltage from one stays almost constant until full discharge
2008-01-11 20:26 < Triona> which is a downside when using them to replace a battery
2008-01-11 20:26 < Weaselosaurus> maybe I'm the only one then
2008-01-11 20:26 < Weaselosaurus> but it does put the burden of talking right back to you
2008-01-11 20:26 < Triona> there's no warning that you are approaching a discharge
2008-01-11 20:27 < quanticle> Triona: Don't you have to place a diode on the capacitor to do that?
2008-01-11 20:28 < Triona> diode to maintain polarity, and a resistor or a voltage regulating IC
2008-01-11 20:28 < Luna-San> Weaselosaurus: ok
2008-01-11 20:28 < quanticle> Triona: If I remember my EE correctly, the charge on the capacitor is dependent on the potential difference between the sides. As the charge goes down, so does potential difference. You fix this by putting a zener diode in series with the capacitor to ensure that current stops completely once it goes below a certain voltage.
2008-01-11 20:28 < Weaselosaurus> not as bad here because this is multi-sided
2008-01-11 20:28 < Luna-San> I tend to throw out an "mhm" now and then, when I think somebody isn't finished, yet.
2008-01-11 20:29 < Triona> quanticle: right when it reaches the "almost discharged" condition, yeah
2008-01-11 20:29 < Triona> the zenier diode is optional
2008-01-11 20:29 < Weaselosaurus> the German equivalent is "aha"
2008-01-11 20:29 < Weaselosaurus> which is not quite as unfriendly as uh-huh, but almost
2008-01-11 20:29 < Luna-San> So "ok" probably means they don't think you're done. Or they know you're done, and are simply acknowledging that they have no feedback worthy of your awesomely compelling thought.
2008-01-11 20:29 < Weaselosaurus> not the case here
2008-01-11 20:30 < Weaselosaurus> there you go
2008-01-11 20:30 < Weaselosaurus> Actually
2008-01-11 20:30 < Weaselosaurus> my awesomely boring thought
2008-01-11 20:30 < Weaselosaurus> :-D
2008-01-11 20:30 < Triona> well, not strictly optional
2008-01-11 20:30 < Triona> you'd use it for a load like a computer
2008-01-11 20:30 < Luna-San> ;)
2008-01-11 20:30 < Triona> where undervoltage causes failure or erratic operation
2008-01-11 20:30 < Triona> you wouldn't bother with a zenier diode for say, a flashlight
2008-01-11 20:31 < Chrisgrant> Hi
2008-01-11 20:31 < quanticle> Triona: Yeah. If I recall correctly, the example was in an intro EE class where we used a capacitor and zener diode in place of a constant voltage source
2008-01-11 20:33 < Triona> that sounds right
2008-01-11 20:34 < Triona> the capacitor will act as a resistor until it hits a certian level of charge
2008-01-11 20:34 < Triona> that's not using the capacitor as an alternative to a battery though
2008-01-11 20:34 < Mike_H> C'est la vie, c'est la vie
2008-01-11 20:34 < Mike_H> C'est good for you
2008-01-11 20:34 < Mike_H> C'est bad for me
2008-01-11 20:35 < Triona> slightly different application
2008-01-11 20:35 < Triona> you are running the capacitor in that application with a constant flow through the capacitor
2008-01-11 20:36 < quanticle> Right
2008-01-11 20:36 < Triona> it naturally builds charge until it's allowed to release it
2008-01-11 20:36 < Triona> then, if the input drops, it has some stored to stableize the current flow for a brief moment
2008-01-11 20:37 < quanticle> Yeah. In this case, the capacitor/diode acts more as a voltage stabilizer than a battery
2008-01-11 20:37 < Triona> so, yeah, cheap voltage regulator
2008-01-11 20:46 < quanticle> Hi gwern
2008-01-11 20:47 < uberpenguin> zener diodes are pretty poor linear regulators
2008-01-11 20:48 < quanticle> uberpenguin: It was only an intro level course. We didn't know about more sophisticated rectifiers...
2008-01-11 20:48 < uberpenguin> zener diodes are even worse rectifiers :)
2008-01-11 20:48 * quanticle doesn't know any better.
2008-01-11 20:48 * quanticle is a Computer Scientist now
2008-01-11 20:49 < uberpenguin> as most college-aged IRC kiddos are :P
2008-01-11 20:49 < uberpenguin> zener breakdown is an interesting mechanism
2008-01-11 20:49 < uberpenguin> it's a form of quantum tunneling
2008-01-11 20:49 < quanticle> Heh, Britain is telling its schools to stay away from Vista, even to the point of advising Linux as a replacement: http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205602879
2008-01-11 20:49 < danborneserver> Heck yes!
2008-01-11 20:49 < uberpenguin> field-assisted tunneling... sort of like Folwer-Nordheim but with a different potential profile
2008-01-11 20:49 < danborneserver> I am not so alone.
2008-01-11 20:50 < quanticle> "Microsoft should provide native support for the ODF file format increasingly used in competitor products and those that are free to use," Becta said in its report.
2008-01-11 20:50 < quanticle> The agency said U.K. schools can consider using Vista or Office 2007 software only when they are buying new batches of PCs. Even then, however, they're advised to take a long looked at alternatives based on Linux and other open source products, such as the OpenOffice.org desktop package.
2008-01-11 20:51 < gwern> hi quanticle
2008-01-11 20:51 < Lycurgus> aren't they too stupid to do that though?
2008-01-11 20:51 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Are you being serious, or are you trolling?
2008-01-11 20:51 < Lycurgus> (ie use Linux instead of DOS)
2008-01-11 20:52 < gwern> I think he was being humorous
2008-01-11 20:52 < Lycurgus> not at all I don't live in the UK. I am partially descended from people from there but their level of intelligence does not impress.
2008-01-11 20:53 < Lycurgus> a government entity choosing Linux over DOS here would be phenomenonal.
2008-01-11 20:53 < Lycurgus> it's a big country though so I'm sure it's happened.
2008-01-11 20:53 < uberpenguin> quanticle: anyway, if you aren't circuit-inclined, you can buy linear regulator ICs which are very cheap, very good, and adjustable
2008-01-11 20:53 < uberpenguin> all the big analog companies make them
2008-01-11 20:54 < uberpenguin> or, if you want to be cool, you can use one of these for voltage regulation: http://datasheets.electron-tube.net/sheets/141/g/GL874.pdf
2008-01-11 20:54 < uberpenguin> :P
2008-01-11 20:54 < Weaselosaurus> Good lord, we're still on that
2008-01-11 20:54 < Weaselosaurus> Brb then
2008-01-11 20:55 < quanticle> Yeah, all my EE friends say that its rather pointless to try to build your own rectifier, since you can buy them for a pittance
2008-01-11 20:56 < uberpenguin> unless analog circuits are your thing
2008-01-11 20:57 < uberpenguin> regulator you mwan
2008-01-11 20:57 < uberpenguin> *mean
2008-01-11 20:57 < quanticle> Yeah, regulator
2008-01-11 20:57 < uberpenguin> you can build a very simple very good bridge rectifier out of four silicon diodes
2008-01-11 20:59 < gwern> uberpenguin never misses a chance to expostulate at length on electronics
2008-01-11 20:59 < gwern> circuits are his life
2008-01-11 20:59 < uberpenguin> not really, I'm annoyingly verbose about everything I know something about
2008-01-11 20:59 < uberpenguin> and really I'm more a device physics person than a circuit person
2008-01-11 21:00 < uberpenguin> or RF... RF is cool
2008-01-11 21:02 < phed__> aaaaaah
2008-01-11 21:03 < phed__> I fear I'll kill if somebody mentions "the scientific model" again
2008-01-11 21:03 < gwern> to a layperson like myself, device physics and circuits amount to the same thing
2008-01-11 21:03 < gwern> phed__: not able to discuss it? that's hardly befitting the scientific model of peer review!
2008-01-11 21:04 < phed__> gwern: I am able to discuss it. but people who state it as matter-of-fact just pisses me off :)
2008-01-11 21:05 < gwern> the scientific model postulates that emotional biases get in the way of rational discussion
2008-01-11 21:05 < Weaselosaurus> "comme je n'fais rien à son goûttttttt"
2008-01-11 21:05 < phed__> gwern: uhm, not really
2008-01-11 21:06 < phed__> gwern: there is no The Scientific Model
2008-01-11 21:06 < phed__> gwern: it is just something people learn in order to understand what science is
2008-01-11 21:06 < phed__> gwern: same with falsifiability.
2008-01-11 21:06 < phed__> gwern: but it is not a qualifier in order to tell what is science or not
2008-01-11 21:07 < phed__> gwern: if that was the case, astronomy wouldn't be a science
2008-01-11 21:09 < phed__> and peer review has its issues
2008-01-11 21:09 < Weaselosaurus> Popper gets heaped upon a lot these days.
2008-01-11 21:09 < phed__> a recent study showed that a high amount of the most oft-cited papers were intiially rejected
2008-01-11 21:09 < phed__> heaped?
2008-01-11 21:09 < Weaselosaurus> yea, "dissed"
2008-01-11 21:09 < phed__> well, here in norway he is not the leading philosophist of science
2008-01-11 21:10 < Weaselosaurus> are you saying "be nice to pseudoscience"?
2008-01-11 21:10 < Weaselosaurus> he's got far more critics than fans nowadays
2008-01-11 21:10 < phed__> heck, even the term pseudoscience has huge issues
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> well, there is certainly a lot of fraud in the us
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> ie misapplied usage of the word science
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> but that is a whole other category than "fringe science"
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> ie. some state that ufo research is pseudoscience
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> outright
2008-01-11 21:11 < phed__> that's just an example, I am not an ufo freak myself
2008-01-11 21:12 < phed__> but when i took some time to look into the matter it was very easy to see that "not all research on ufos is pseudoscience"
2008-01-11 21:12 < uberpenguin> you know, most scientists I know never argue about what science _is_
2008-01-11 21:12 < phed__> hence the claim "ufo research is pseudoscience" is outright false
2008-01-11 21:13 < Weaselosaurus> In Germany, law is considered a science.
2008-01-11 21:13 < phed__> yeah, here as well
2008-01-11 21:13 < Weaselosaurus> at least academic disputes
2008-01-11 21:13 < mastertop> Just thought of something, shouldn't a approximately 0 ohms circuit draw about 0 amperes?
2008-01-11 21:14 < uberpenguin> mastertop: depends on whether there's an electric field present
2008-01-11 21:14 < phed__> here in norway it is regarded as "bad scientific discourse" to claim that other research is "bad"
2008-01-11 21:14 < Weaselosaurus> The only circuits I'm competent to talk about are in racing.
2008-01-11 21:14 < arcimboldo_> Astrological research isn't necessarily pseudoscience either, if you perform the research in a neutral way with the option of falsifying claims.
2008-01-11 21:14 < phed__> so, claiming that X is pseudoscience would make you look like a fool
2008-01-11 21:14 < uberpenguin> Weaselosaurus: let's talk about racing!
2008-01-11 21:14 < mastertop> uberpenguin, let's say a battery connected to a wire (which is connected on both poles)
2008-01-11 21:15 < Weaselosaurus> and how boring nowaday's racing tracks are
2008-01-11 21:15 < Weaselosaurus> :-D
2008-01-11 21:15 < phed__> arcimboldo_: Actually, astrology contains a lot of useful knowledge. Also, the history of astrology is very very useful.
2008-01-11 21:15 < uberpenguin> mastertop: if you do that you'll either melt the wire or the battery
2008-01-11 21:15 < uberpenguin> or both
2008-01-11 21:15 < Weaselosaurus> and how people don't have to be able to drive any more
2008-01-11 21:15 < Weaselosaurus> Astrology is good fun
2008-01-11 21:15 < uberpenguin> both the wire and the battery have finite, non-zero resistance
2008-01-11 21:15 * Weaselosaurus fits his zodiac fairly well
2008-01-11 21:15 < uberpenguin> only superconductors actually have zero resistance
2008-01-11 21:16 < mastertop> infinite or finite?
2008-01-11 21:16 < uberpenguin> finite
2008-01-11 21:16 < Weaselosaurus> infinite would be odd
2008-01-11 21:16 < mastertop> that means limited ?
2008-01-11 21:16 < Lycurgus> who then is the leading Norwege philoshopher of science? Kuhn, DeSolla Price, Husserl, who?
2008-01-11 21:16 < arcimboldo_> phed__: Maybe, but the core claim on which astrology is based - the position of the stars at birth is what determines what happens to you at a specific week - is pretty obvious nonsense.
2008-01-11 21:16 < uberpenguin> mastertop: in this context it means measurable
2008-01-11 21:16 < Weaselosaurus> like God was trying to create a stone he himself couldn't lift
2008-01-11 21:16 < uberpenguin> my brother is a mechanic and has some fun stories about people who have dropped wrenches on the terminals of a car battery
2008-01-11 21:16 < uberpenguin> short story: don't do it
2008-01-11 21:16 < Weaselosaurus> Kuhn, Dennett...
2008-01-11 21:16 < Luna-San> Or a burrito so hot that He Himself could not eat it.
2008-01-11 21:17 < mastertop> let's say the wire is 0.08ohms, shouldn't it draw very little current?
2008-01-11 21:17 < phed__> arcimboldo_: true. but it doesn't claim to be science, hence it cannot be pseudoscience
2008-01-11 21:17 < Weaselosaurus> I can't speak for Norway of course
2008-01-11 21:17 < uberpenguin> mastertop: no, a lot of current
2008-01-11 21:17 < arcimboldo_> phed__: Are you sure it doesn't claim to be a science?
2008-01-11 21:17 < uberpenguin> mastertop: but at that point the current will be limited by the battery's internal resistance, not the wire
2008-01-11 21:17 < uberpenguin> so the battery will heat up
2008-01-11 21:17 < phed__> arcimboldo_: yes, I have never seen anyone claim it is a science
2008-01-11 21:18 < Lycurgus> no but perhaps phed__ can ( 21:09 < phed__> well, here in norway he is not the leading philosophist [sic] of science )
2008-01-11 21:18 < phed__> arcimboldo_: As for the claim, I do suspect that people born at different times at the year may be different
2008-01-11 21:19 < phed__> Arne Næss is leading in norway
2008-01-11 21:19 < arcimboldo_> phed__: Well possible - whether you are born at a warm and sunny time or at -20 on a grey day may influence your perception of the world ...
2008-01-11 21:19 < uberpenguin> mastertop: but for sake of argument, if the battery was perfect and had no internal resistance, the current through the wire would roughly obey ohm's law, I = V/R
2008-01-11 21:19 < phed__> actually, does anyone have access to papers? I would love a book of him that I know is out
2008-01-11 21:19 < gwern> phed__: The Scientific Model disagrees with your assessment of its non-existence
2008-01-11 21:19 < Lycurgus> ah, thanks will look into him, not heard b4.
2008-01-11 21:19 < phed__> gwern: what non-existence
2008-01-11 21:19 < uberpenguin> is the scientific model anything like the Standard Model?
2008-01-11 21:19 < uberpenguin> or is it one of those "lie to children" things?
2008-01-11 21:20 < Weaselosaurus> Professor Scientific Model, OBE...
2008-01-11 21:20 < Luna-San> If you're not good, the Standard Model won't bring you any presents?
2008-01-11 21:20 < uberpenguin> the Standard Model will only provide you with more questions, not answers
2008-01-11 21:20 < gwern> phed__: so? many great scientists were rejected as cranks, but most cranks are not great scientists...
2008-01-11 21:20 < gwern> as long as the rejection rate is better than chance
2008-01-11 21:21 < phed__> gwern: about 40% of the leading scientists were rejected as cranks ;)
2008-01-11 21:21 < Weaselosaurus> Professour Spontaniouse D. Kay
2008-01-11 21:21 < uberpenguin> 70% of all figures are pulled out of one's ass
2008-01-11 21:21 < phed__> at least that figure ain't long off :P
2008-01-11 21:21 < Tony_Sidaway> Oh it's Len
2008-01-11 21:21 < phed__> I can find a figure tho
2008-01-11 21:21 < Weaselosaurus> -u
2008-01-11 21:21 < arcimboldo_> Hm. The thing is that a few of those "cranks" were those who achieved the most significant breakthroughs of science.
2008-01-11 21:21 < bumm13> Weasel: I just found out that someone made a documentary movie about Joe Strummer
2008-01-11 21:21 < uberpenguin> I can find a reason to contest your figure
2008-01-11 21:21 < Tony_Sidaway> I'm watching Eddie Shoestring
2008-01-11 21:22 < phed__> arcimboldo_: Yes, but there is a systemic problem that people are rejected as cranks
2008-01-11 21:22 < Weaselosaurus> ah
2008-01-11 21:22 < uberpenguin> bumm13: oh? I'm intrigued
2008-01-11 21:22 < Lycurgus> I apologize for my countrymen to any international channel users. In America religion and science are considered equals by many/most and quite a few consider religion as the better.
2008-01-11 21:22 < phed__> arcimboldo_, http://www2.uah.es/jmc/ai53.pdf <- this paper might be interesting
2008-01-11 21:22 < Weaselosaurus> eh, no self-whipping
2008-01-11 21:22 < bumm13> my cable company is offering it as pay-per-view
2008-01-11 21:22 < gwern> that's the fate of ground-breaking philosophers. as the map gets improved, everyone dumps on the pioneer
2008-01-11 21:22 < bumm13> but it's also going to view on IFC
2008-01-11 21:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Lycurgus: could you explain your understanding of the term "international"?
2008-01-11 21:22 < Weaselosaurus> here, political opinion usually trumps science
2008-01-11 21:22 < mastertop> damn, suddenly I feel like I've forgotten everything I knew about electricity
2008-01-11 21:22 < Tony_Sidaway> Does it mean, in your mnd, "non-American"?
2008-01-11 21:23 < Lycurgus> outside of the United States of America
2008-01-11 21:23 < uberpenguin> mastertop: don't feel bad, very few people know a lot about electricity
2008-01-11 21:23 < uberpenguin> and most of them are crazy physicists who are scary to talk to
2008-01-11 21:23 < phed__> gwern: heh, you know, the inventor of "the chemical imbalance theory" warned against taking the theory literally. now every second ad for anti-depressivas claim that
2008-01-11 21:23 < bumm13> its official website is at http://www.joestrummerthemovie.com/
2008-01-11 21:23 < phed__> gwern: so it can go both ways :)
2008-01-11 21:23 < Tony_Sidaway> Lycurgus: yes I thought you might mean that. But can you understand how odd it might seem to someone who isn't American?
2008-01-11 21:23 < phed__> crap science becomes idolized
2008-01-11 21:23 < mastertop> R=V/I then, the higher the current, the lower the resistance, I would have thought the opposite...
2008-01-11 21:24 < bumm13> (unfortunately, Bono is interviewed in it ;p )
2008-01-11 21:24 < Weaselosaurus> Linus Pauling's orange juice vs. cancer theory is nice as well
2008-01-11 21:24 < Lycurgus> yes, that's why I said it.
2008-01-11 21:24 < gwern> you want to avoid criticism? do nothing anyone cares about. 'the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.'
2008-01-11 21:24 < Tony_Sidaway> I mean, if International means non-American, what is the word for non-Polish people?
2008-01-11 21:24 < Lycurgus> because it's also the truth.
2008-01-11 21:24 < bumm13> but he was a non-sellout once :P
2008-01-11 21:24 < uberpenguin> mastertop: I think you're looking at ohm's law in an odd light... ohm's law describes the current and voltage relationship for simple linear materials
2008-01-11 21:24 < uberpenguin> mastertop: R is more or less an intrinsic property
2008-01-11 21:24 < arcimboldo_> phed__: there isn't necessarily a contradiction - it is also pretty common practice to cite controversial views in the overview part of a scientific paper. Hence number of quotations doesn't necessarily prove scientific validity.
2008-01-11 21:25 < Tony_Sidaway> Do we need another word for non-Lithuanians?
2008-01-11 21:25 < Messedrocker> Jergons.
2008-01-11 21:25 < arcimboldo_> controversial or provocative views.
2008-01-11 21:25 < Messedrocker> that's (jur - GONZ)
2008-01-11 21:25 < uberpenguin> it might be better to think of V=IR and I=V/R rather than R=V/I
2008-01-11 21:25 < Dtobias> They're all un-American.
2008-01-11 21:25 < Tony_Sidaway> Jerons it is
2008-01-11 21:25 < uberpenguin> R=V/I just because that's how resistance is defined
2008-01-11 21:25 < Messedrocker> Jergons.
2008-01-11 21:25 < uberpenguin> and for no other reason
2008-01-11 21:25 < Messedrocker> With a g.
2008-01-11 21:25 < Messedrocker> Or as they say in England, a jed.
2008-01-11 21:25 < Tony_Sidaway> With a g
2008-01-11 21:25 < phed__> arcimboldo_, you talking about the paper?
2008-01-11 21:25 < Dtobias> Jedi knights.
2008-01-11 21:26 < phed__> arcimboldo_, Rejecting Highly Cited Papers: http://www2.uah.es/jmc/ai53.pdf
2008-01-11 21:26 < Tony_Sidaway> My keyboard is near collapse
2008-01-11 21:26 < mastertop> yeah, at least V=IR makes sense to me
2008-01-11 21:26 < Messedrocker> My French teacher wrote "Je dis" on the board and subsequently thought she wrote "Jedis"
2008-01-11 21:26 < arcimboldo_> yep, at least about the hypothesis (haven't read through yet of course)
2008-01-11 21:26 < Dtobias> I sense a disturbance in the Force.
2008-01-11 21:26 < mastertop> Luke, utilise la force.
2008-01-11 21:26 < phed__> arcimboldo_: It is a systemic error. People tend to reject paper because it is deemed unappropriate
2008-01-11 21:26 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: I know "je dis" in French, but the meaning and utility of "jedis" to Francophones escapes me.
2008-01-11 21:26 < phed__> arcimboldo_: Same, people reject papers because they are in less prominent journals
2008-01-11 21:27 * uberpenguin rejects "unappropriate" as an inappropriate word
2008-01-11 21:27 < phed__> sorry, not english
2008-01-11 21:27 < Messedrocker> Tony_Sidaway, she's American
2008-01-11 21:27 < Messedrocker> But she's fluent in French
2008-01-11 21:27 < uberpenguin> no problem, native english speakers have committed far greater travesties
2008-01-11 21:27 < Messedrocker> so she knows what both mean
2008-01-11 21:27 < Tony_Sidaway> Ah
2008-01-11 21:27 < Tony_Sidaway> I am not fluent in Americain
2008-01-11 21:27 < Tony_Sidaway> Could you tell me what Jedis means?
2008-01-11 21:28 < Messedrocker> you don't know what a Jedi is?
2008-01-11 21:28 < celicni> any advanced template user here?
2008-01-11 21:28 < phed__> uberpenguin, it is kinda fun. I am on the opinion that un and in should be interchangeable. common latin etc ;)
2008-01-11 21:28 * arcimboldo_ knows Yetis
2008-01-11 21:28 < Dtobias> I think the plural of "Jedi" is "Jedi"... it doesn't take a suffix.
2008-01-11 21:28 * Lycurgus would also like to mention Thomas Brady to phed__ ("The Philosophy behind Physics").
2008-01-11 21:28 < Tony_Sidaway> Messedrocker: ah, I see.
2008-01-11 21:28 < uberpenguin> in my experience, good scientists are pretty insular... they don't really care about the enlightenment of the world in general
2008-01-11 21:28 < Dtobias> It's a story of a man named Brady.
2008-01-11 21:29 < uberpenguin> that is stated with the corollary that great scientists are the opposite
2008-01-11 21:29 < celicni> specifically, any programmer here who is able to cope with the flag templates?
2008-01-11 21:29 < phed__> Lycurgus: I would love to translate the norwegian page of arne næss
2008-01-11 21:29 < uberpenguin> but there aren't many Feynmans or Hawkings out there