freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-09 16:05 < bumm13> kenlyric: which suits the 11-12 year old demographic nicely
2008-01-09 16:05 < uls__> guys, i have a quesion and i wonder if someone can help me
2008-01-09 16:05 < Mike_H> bumm13: the sentence is phrased correctly, you're just lumping in the wrong words in phrases
2008-01-09 16:05 < uls__> what is considered vandalism?
2008-01-09 16:05 < Mike_H> comes across as/much older
2008-01-09 16:06 < MUNCHLAX> [[Wikipedia:Vandalism]] gogogo
2008-01-09 16:06 < bumm13> Mike_H: no, I read it just fine
2008-01-09 16:06 < uls__> is this vandalism: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:JFin&action=history
2008-01-09 16:06 < Mike_H> bumm13: you grouped it as "as much older," which doesn't make sense
2008-01-09 16:06 < Mike_H> "comes across as"/"much older" does
2008-01-09 16:06 < bumm13> ...
2008-01-09 16:07 < kenlyric> hair that died cannot be split that finely
2008-01-09 16:07 < kenlyric> *dyed
2008-01-09 16:07 < Mike_H> haha
2008-01-09 16:07 < bumm13> how does one portray themselves as "older" via a pose, exactly?
2008-01-09 16:07 < bumm13> mimicking an old lady frown?
2008-01-09 16:07 < uls__> btw, the vandalism page is nice ...
2008-01-09 16:07 < Mike_H> bumm13: I've watched ANTM for years, so let me tell you
2008-01-09 16:07 < Mike_H> if you turn a certain way, you can make your jaw look big
2008-01-09 16:07 < Mike_H> your eyelids saggy
2008-01-09 16:08 < Mike_H> you can have no neck
2008-01-09 16:08 < Mike_H> etc.
2008-01-09 16:08 < kenlyric> Mike_H: I personally blame you for that show continuing.
2008-01-09 16:08 < bumm13> this is all woman stuff ;)
2008-01-09 16:08 < Mike_H> You have to "find your poses."
2008-01-09 16:08 < Mike_H> kenlyric: Blame Ty-ty
2008-01-09 16:08 < kenlyric> nope
2008-01-09 16:09 < Mike_H> Ty-Ty Baby
2008-01-09 16:09 < kenlyric> I blame you for all the her success.
2008-01-09 16:09 < Mike_H> I didn't buy her Victoria's Secret catalog!
2008-01-09 16:09 < kenlyric> nothing to fap to...
2008-01-09 16:09 < bumm13> :\
2008-01-09 16:10 < VoxRationis> ...
2008-01-09 16:10 < kenlyric> ANTM replaced vulcan babe.
2008-01-09 16:11 < kenlyric> so, it needs to die.
2008-01-09 16:11 < bumm13> most American TV needs to die
2008-01-09 16:11 < Messedrocker> bumm13, that's in progress
2008-01-09 16:11 < bumm13> no, I mean stop airing ;p
2008-01-09 16:11 < Mike_H> bumm13: I have the worst photo shoot ever on ANTM
2008-01-09 16:11 < Mike_H> well, one of the worst at least
2008-01-09 16:12 < Mike_H> For the following week's episode, the final six contestants shot with the Wild Boyz. Steve-O's immature personality does not sit well with Bre, and neither does Lisa's proclamation that she is going to urinate in a diaper while on-set.
2008-01-09 16:12 < bumm13> ...
2008-01-09 16:13 < Mike_H> Yeah, do I win now?
2008-01-09 16:13 < Mike_H> I thought so.
2008-01-09 16:13 < shimgray> please tell me that sentence is a surrealist joke, or some kind of satire
2008-01-09 16:13 < bumm13> win?
2008-01-09 16:13 < kenlyric> lol
2008-01-09 16:13 < kenlyric> "The Screen Actors Guild (SAG) otherwise known as the Film Actors Guild (FAG) is an American labor union representing over 120000 film and television ."
2008-01-09 16:13 < shimgray> if it is neither, we are PLACING YOUR COUNTRY UNDER QUARANTINE FOR THE GOOD OF THE SPECIES
2008-01-09 16:13 < kenlyric> that's the google blurb on wikipedia's SAG article
2008-01-09 16:13 < shimgray> and when I say quarantine, I mean FLAMING NUCLEAR STERILISATION
2008-01-09 16:13 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-09 16:14 < shimgray> sorry and all, but it seems to be necessary
2008-01-09 16:14 < bumm13> the less TV, the better.....
2008-01-09 16:14 < uls__> is there a way to talk with a user when he has blocked me ?
2008-01-09 16:14 < Mike_H> shimgray: Here's the evidence for quarantine
2008-01-09 16:14 < Mike_H> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=fMr9vAg_Sz8
2008-01-09 16:14 < uls__> (on wikipedia)
2008-01-09 16:15 < uls__> not here in irc
2008-01-09 16:15 < uls__> i am kind of pissed actually
2008-01-09 16:15 < uls__> that guy blocked me and accuses me of vandalism, etc.
2008-01-09 16:15 < kenlyric> SAG contract expires in June. Strike will be over by then.
2008-01-09 16:15 < TheWeasel> "Hubbard came to believe that psychiatrists were behind a worldwide conspiracy to attack Scientology and create a "world government" run by psychiatrists on behalf of the USSR:"
2008-01-09 16:16 < bumm13> lol
2008-01-09 16:16 < Mike_H> shimgray: Also, Lisa dedicated her pee to Nicole
2008-01-09 16:16 < TheWeasel> I heard the Libertarian party is still looking for someone to run for president
2008-01-09 16:16 * bumm13 drowns this Lisa person in her pee
2008-01-09 16:16 < bumm13> :-p
2008-01-09 16:16 < shimgray> TheWeasel: All the possible candidates developed a sense of irony?
2008-01-09 16:16 < nazgjunk> uls__, don't bother with him
2008-01-09 16:16 < TheWeasel> "Hubbard also decided that psychiatrists were an ancient evil that had been a problem for billions of years. He cast them in the role of assisting Xenu's genocide 75 million years ago."
2008-01-09 16:16 < nazgjunk> it won't help anyway
2008-01-09 16:16 < Mike_H> bumm13: Lisa was an alcoholic during her time on the show. It was, yeah.
2008-01-09 16:16 < shimgray> maybe they could run eight hundred candidates, and they could jobschare
2008-01-09 16:17 < TheWeasel> o.o
2008-01-09 16:17 * TheWeasel lhao
2008-01-09 16:17 < uls__> nazgjunk, yeah, it won't help propably, that's true
2008-01-09 16:17 < nazgjunk> TheWeasel, HAHAHAHAHA
2008-01-09 16:17 < nazgjunk> <3
2008-01-09 16:17 < nazgjunk> genius
2008-01-09 16:17 < Mike_H> http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=E_MeJmfqZms
2008-01-09 16:17 < Mike_H> here's another classy moment
2008-01-09 16:17 < TheWeasel> Dinochiatrist!
2008-01-09 16:17 < Mike_H> that's the thing, Lisa wasn't really the worst in ANTM 5
2008-01-09 16:17 < Mike_H> I think that title would go to Jayla
2008-01-09 16:18 < uls__> nazgjunk: it's just that this is so f* unfair ... he deleted my project's site and lets other project pages live, all i request is a proper discussion about the notability of those other pages
2008-01-09 16:18 < uls__> i think that idiot doesn't want to loose his face
2008-01-09 16:18 < uls__> as it could very well be that these other pages don't have enough notability
2008-01-09 16:18 < uls__> anyway, that's almost like an edit war
2008-01-09 16:18 < bumm13> uls__ - your project?
2008-01-09 16:18 < uls__> activequant
2008-01-09 16:19 < bumm13> which is?
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> my project's page on wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> activequant.org it is
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> it's a financial open source project
2008-01-09 16:19 < kenlyric> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53032-2004Aug9.html
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> we once maintained a channel here on freenode, too
2008-01-09 16:19 < bumm13> ah, so it was a spam article?
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> depends a bit on what you consider spam, it was deleted due to missing notability
2008-01-09 16:19 < uls__> that's the point
2008-01-09 16:20 < uls__> not spam
2008-01-09 16:20 < uls__> we didn't spam in the sense of commercial spam
2008-01-09 16:20 < uls__> it was one of those gazillion open source project pages on wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:20 < uls__> that all have the same problem
2008-01-09 16:20 < uls__> missing notability
2008-01-09 16:20 < Mike_H> shimgray: Did you see the clip where Lisa peed in the diaper?
2008-01-09 16:20 < shimgray> why did you write it?
2008-01-09 16:20 < bumm13> well, then why does it need an article if it isn't notable?
2008-01-09 16:20 < shimgray> Mike_H: I am *British*. We have standards.
2008-01-09 16:20 < bumm13> shimgray: not many :P
2008-01-09 16:21 < Mike_H> Oh, please, you all had that Benny Hill
2008-01-09 16:21 < uls__> bumm13: that notability question was new to me, it's not that unnotable ... the point is, i don't really understand why other projects are listed that even have a smaller userbase
2008-01-09 16:21 < uls__> point is, i didn't write that activequant article fully
2008-01-09 16:21 < uls__> i added of course some information here and there
2008-01-09 16:21 < shimgray> Mike_H: Yeah. And that's still miles above your youtube link :-)
2008-01-09 16:21 < uls__> who wouldn't if someone wrote on a project
2008-01-09 16:21 < uls__> of yours.
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> and then i of course add deletion request to those smaller pages ...
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> which is totally correct in my eyes
2008-01-09 16:22 < bumm13> uls__ : well, other projects' articles simply may have been overlooked as deletion candidates
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> am i missing something?
2008-01-09 16:22 < bumm13> I'm not sure what this has to do with you being blocked
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> and then i got accused of continuing vandalism
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> because i am biased ...
2008-01-09 16:22 < uls__> which i don't really see
2008-01-09 16:23 < bumm13> well, ok
2008-01-09 16:23 < uls__> as i am quite subjective.
2008-01-09 16:23 < uls__> aeh, objective.
2008-01-09 16:23 < uls__> ;-)
2008-01-09 16:23 < bumm13> you were probably blocked due to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:POINT
2008-01-09 16:23 < Mike_H> shimgray: Oh, this was a good moment too
2008-01-09 16:23 < Mike_H> Keenyah won a challenge in C4, and it was dinner at a fashion designer's house, with lots of industry people there, and she picks her friend Brittany
2008-01-09 16:23 < Mike_H> This episode reveals the first crack in Brittany and Keenyah's seemingly solid friendship. Brittany unwittingly steals the show from Keenyah at Craig Port's party, getting drunk off many glasses of wine and ending the evening mimicking the doggy style sexual position with Craig Port while the other guests look on and laugh. Keenyah regrets bringing Brittany along.
2008-01-09 16:24 < bumm13> I would try to be a tad more subtle about bringing up matters of debatable policy
2008-01-09 16:24 < uls__> more subtle is good
2008-01-09 16:24 < uls__> it's at least a hint
2008-01-09 16:24 < uls__> bumm13: however, as soon as i add anything to those pages, i will be accused again .. seriously, this whole procedure is really one of the downsides of wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:25 < uls__> there is simply no strict rule
2008-01-09 16:25 < bumm13> and again, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vandalism
2008-01-09 16:25 < Mike_H> shimgray: So, which event is worse, that, or Lisa peeing in the diaper?
2008-01-09 16:25 < The359> What were you adding to those pages, uls?
2008-01-09 16:25 < uls__> some quantitative rule which to follow.
2008-01-09 16:25 < The359> Besides attempts to delete them?
2008-01-09 16:25 < bumm13> uls__: I'm sorry it troubles you
2008-01-09 16:25 < uls__> I added on the discussion page "What about deleting this page due to missing notability?"
2008-01-09 16:25 < uls__> as said
2008-01-09 16:26 < shimgray> Mike_H: I am not sure one can actively differentiate between two festering sores
2008-01-09 16:26 < The359> Did anyone point out the notability?
2008-01-09 16:26 < uls__> this procedure is simply completely unfair, untransparent
2008-01-09 16:26 < The359> Or are you just basing notability on how many people use that product?
2008-01-09 16:26 < uls__> and really not understandable ... is there no hard rule (i.e. so and so many links at least, or at least one paper source, etc)?
2008-01-09 16:26 < The359> in comparison to yours
2008-01-09 16:26 < shimgray> uls__: Basically, what you tripped up on was motive.
2008-01-09 16:26 < uls__> The359: No, i am at a level where i base notability on paper based references
2008-01-09 16:27 < The359> well that's not our basis
2008-01-09 16:27 < TheWeasel> Good lord, this man is such an epic crank, and most Hollywood actors I assume aren't dumb!
2008-01-09 16:27 < TheWeasel> at least not this level of dumb
2008-01-09 16:27 < bumm13> TheWeasel: you assume too much ;p
2008-01-09 16:27 < Phoenix-wiki> I just read an article that specifically stated that the subjects of the article only occur in Singapore and there was a tag at the top that said "The examples and perspective in this article or section may not represent a worldwide view of the subject."
2008-01-09 16:27 < The359> we don't require paper references
2008-01-09 16:27 < uls__> shimgray: yes, could be, but if no one cares about it ...
2008-01-09 16:27 < TheWeasel> perhaps its because rich people enjoy love bombing
2008-01-09 16:27 < The359> We simply require references from reputable sources
2008-01-09 16:27 < shimgray> Because you went and did this after your article was marked for deletion, it automatically looked like you were doing it to be spiteful. this is because, well, that's what it looks like, sorry.
2008-01-09 16:28 < uls__> The359: We had 21 external references including a job offer where ActiveQuant was a requirement ...
2008-01-09 16:28 < shimgray> (consider it from your antagonist's viewpoint - some guy comes along, we tell him he can't have an article, he says "well, damnit, delete those ones too, it's only fair!")
2008-01-09 16:28 < The359> Number of references is not what I said
2008-01-09 16:28 < shimgray> or, at least, this is how it usually works
2008-01-09 16:28 < The359> I said REPUTABLE SOURCES
2008-01-09 16:28 < uls__> The359: even Quantlib, a project more notable than activequant was deleted
2008-01-09 16:28 < The359> You seem to not be understanding our notability requirements
2008-01-09 16:28 < uls__> and projects that are really ... completely unnotable are still listed
2008-01-09 16:28 < bumm13> uls__ : you keep bringing up other projects; that's irrelevant to the issue at hand
2008-01-09 16:29 < uls__> bumm13: that's a point i don't understand either ... but ok
2008-01-09 16:29 < The359> Just because an article that may appear unnotable still exists, doesn't mean we're simply allowing it to exist
2008-01-09 16:29 < The359> Someone simply hasn't found it
2008-01-09 16:29 < bumm13> then don't edit Wikipedia if it's so difficult to understand
2008-01-09 16:29 < The359> Or your assesement of its notability is off
2008-01-09 16:30 < uls__> bumm13: in the eyes of justice, your argument is not valid. that's the point.
2008-01-09 16:30 < shimgray> mm. if we've explicitly decided to allow something comparable, that's a reasonable point to use in its defence
2008-01-09 16:30 < uls__> same law/rule for all.
2008-01-09 16:30 < kenlyric> justice?
2008-01-09 16:30 < shimgray> but "an article exists" does not mean it's approved, does not mean we *want* it
2008-01-09 16:30 < Cyrius> we're trying to build an encyclopedia, not a legal system
2008-01-09 16:30 < shimgray> it just means no-one's got around to tossing it out
2008-01-09 16:30 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-09 16:31 < Cyrius> there is no right to inclusion, nor should there be
2008-01-09 16:31 < uls__> it's not about a legal system, it's a civilzation'S rule.
2008-01-09 16:31 < kenlyric> you have to appreciate the audacity it takes to elevate an encyclopedia to the concepts of justice and law...
2008-01-09 16:31 * kenlyric bows
2008-01-09 16:31 < Cyrius> uls__: which civilization would that be?
2008-01-09 16:31 < TheWeasel> This civilization has the rules it has.
2008-01-09 16:31 < shimgray> you think we're infringing natural justice by throwing out your article?
2008-01-09 16:31 < uls__> yes, and same rules apply to all
2008-01-09 16:31 < TheWeasel> no natural law except WP:IAR
2008-01-09 16:31 < uls__> otherwise it's discrimination
2008-01-09 16:31 < kenlyric> shimgray: that seems to be the argument.
2008-01-09 16:31 * shimgray is beginning to find this conversation a lot more amusing
2008-01-09 16:31 < uls__> that's the point.
2008-01-09 16:31 < The359> Discrimination?
2008-01-09 16:32 < The359> You're throwing out a lot of big words here, pal
2008-01-09 16:32 < NotACow> shimgray: ha
2008-01-09 16:32 < bumm13> hmm, someone just created an impersonation account User:BarrackObama
2008-01-09 16:32 < kenlyric> shimgray: like I said, it takes giant balls to make that claim.
2008-01-09 16:32 < NotACow> shimgray: i never thought i'd see someone invoke natural justice as a keep reason
2008-01-09 16:32 < kenlyric> you have to give him credit.
2008-01-09 16:32 < geniice> bumm13 kill it with fire or new hampshire
2008-01-09 16:32 < TheWeasel> the Obama Memorial Barracks!
2008-01-09 16:32 < Cyrius> NotACow: gotta give him a point for trying
2008-01-09 16:32 < The359> A point wont help much when you're already in the hole
2008-01-09 16:32 < NotACow> i suppose i shouldn't be surprised
2008-01-09 16:33 < NotACow> wikipedia is full of total nutcases.
2008-01-09 16:33 < TheWeasel> ...where human rights and decency are stepped on!
2008-01-09 16:33 < kenlyric> it's one step above an IRC user complaining their first amendment rights are being violated when they're moderated.
2008-01-09 16:33 < TheWeasel> Stepped on, I say.
2008-01-09 16:33 < The359> We need this shit in the Constitution
2008-01-09 16:33 < The359> Human rights!
2008-01-09 16:33 < uls__> exactly, that's the point kenlyric
2008-01-09 16:33 < NotACow> YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BABBLE ENDLESSLY
2008-01-09 16:33 < kenlyric> uls__: try not to fail further. I'm giving you as much credit as I can possibly muster.
2008-01-09 16:33 < The359> If that's your point, then you have no point, uls
2008-01-09 16:33 < Cyrius> the first amendment does not apply to Wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:34 < TheWeasel> Eh, a recurrence to Grotius
2008-01-09 16:34 < kenlyric> the first amendment applies in very few situations.
2008-01-09 16:34 < TheWeasel> I'm moved
2008-01-09 16:34 < TheWeasel> ...even though the paradigm is decidedly positivistic here'bouts
2008-01-09 16:34 < Cyrius> nor do the UN declaration of human rights, the EU charter, the geneva convention...
2008-01-09 16:34 < TheWeasel> the European declaration on Human Rights
2008-01-09 16:34 * The359 declares Cyrius a combatant
2008-01-09 16:34 < Cyrius> is that what it is? doesn't the UN have one?
2008-01-09 16:34 < aleske> good evening, i represent slum-tv a project in nairobi, and i wanted to ask you for help. we are facing difficult times now, and i wanted to ask if any of you editors, could edit an article for us, (we have bbc reports and voice of america)
2008-01-09 16:34 < uls__> so, do you guys want to tell me that you administer wikipedia by dealing on a case by case basis, not looking at former cases as a reference?
2008-01-09 16:35 < kenlyric> The359: you don't need to do that, since he's not under the geneva convention
2008-01-09 16:35 < TheWeasel> the Statutes of the War Crimes Tribunal
2008-01-09 16:35 < NotACow> uls__: that would be way too much work.
2008-01-09 16:35 < TheWeasel> the Federation Papers
2008-01-09 16:35 < kenlyric> great
2008-01-09 16:35 < TheWeasel> or whatever they're called
2008-01-09 16:35 < kenlyric> now he wants us to be the fucking Supreme Court
2008-01-09 16:35 < Cyrius> uls__: we aren't trying for justice, just an encyclopedia
2008-01-09 16:35 < geniice> uls__ sometimes
2008-01-09 16:35 * The359 calls up DOOP
2008-01-09 16:35 < bumm13> uls__: also, using IPs to vandalize Wikipedia = bad move
2008-01-09 16:35 < Rinn> aleske: Can you not edit the article yourself?
2008-01-09 16:35 < TheWeasel> The Magna Charta, the Parva Charta, the Media Charta
2008-01-09 16:35 < Formentar> Take off every Zig? :-)
2008-01-09 16:35 < kenlyric> his testes are 3 feet high.
2008-01-09 16:35 < bumm13> so don't do it again, mmkay?
2008-01-09 16:36 < geniice> uls__> there are a few non president based legal systems around
2008-01-09 16:36 < Cyrius> aleske: do what?
2008-01-09 16:36 < Ceiling_Cat> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kenneth_Pinyan&diff=183248283&oldid=171508019 <-- LOL
2008-01-09 16:36 < geniice> Rinn> [[WP:COI
2008-01-09 16:36 < uls__> geniice: what do you mean ?
2008-01-09 16:36 < TheWeasel> Well, precendence is still considered for reliability
2008-01-09 16:36 < TheWeasel> it's just less forced
2008-01-09 16:36 < aleske> cyrius, basically help us writing an article for wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:36 < Cyrius> an article about what?
2008-01-09 16:36 < kenlyric> but not exhaustively investigated.
2008-01-09 16:36 < geniice> uls__ various legal systems around the globe do not take past cases into account
2008-01-09 16:36 < uls__> Cyrius: justice and equality should be something everyone pursues ...
2008-01-09 16:37 < TheWeasel> What we do is pure [[decisionism]]!
2008-01-09 16:37 * bumm13 needs a new monitor :P
2008-01-09 16:37 < uls__> decisionism ...
2008-01-09 16:37 < TheWeasel> heh
2008-01-09 16:37 < The359> Justing and equality for you, you mean?
2008-01-09 16:37 < uls__> bumm13: point taken for the ip
2008-01-09 16:37 < kenlyric> every one of us is a decider.
2008-01-09 16:37 < aleske> we work in the slum, with an activist project, in these days our members are trying to stop ethnic motivated violence
2008-01-09 16:37 < Cyrius> uls__: not when trying to make a creative work. you have no right to an article
2008-01-09 16:37 < Formentar> Ceiling_Cat: Yeah, they should've forced the horse to marry the guy, like they did with that goat.
2008-01-09 16:38 < Cyrius> aleske: well and good, but what are you asking us to do?
2008-01-09 16:38 < aleske> we produce local tv, a neesreel in the slum, for screenings in public spaces inside the slum, made by locals...
2008-01-09 16:38 < uls__> Cyrius: it's not about the right to an article... and don'T worry, legally enforcing something in a mid-sized community like wikipedia is extremely difficult
2008-01-09 16:38 < uls__> i know that.
2008-01-09 16:38 < kenlyric> worry?
2008-01-09 16:38 < bumm13> Cyrius: he was blocked for spamming a URL in "articles"
2008-01-09 16:38 < The359> You can't enforce it, period
2008-01-09 16:38 < Cyrius> uls__: there is no "legally enforcing"
2008-01-09 16:38 < uls__> jeus, you are kids, are you ?
2008-01-09 16:38 < kenlyric> what, is this little man with the giant balls threatening us now?
2008-01-09 16:38 < aleske> i look for an editor, as we don't have
2008-01-09 16:39 < uls__> the foundation has some legal power
2008-01-09 16:39 < aleske> someone who want to write an article for us
2008-01-09 16:39 < TheWeasel> Cyrius: Except in Trenton, New Jersey.
2008-01-09 16:39 < Cyrius> uls__: you're the one trying to apply legal principles where they do not apply
2008-01-09 16:39 < kenlyric> oh, he is threatening us.
2008-01-09 16:39 < Rinn> About you?
2008-01-09 16:39 < kenlyric> this is excellent.
2008-01-09 16:39 < TheWeasel> everything is law at the bottom of it, but we have ours.
2008-01-09 16:39 < Cyrius> TheWeasel: I'm starting to get a bit of that vibe
2008-01-09 16:39 < uls__> TheWeasel: i agree
2008-01-09 16:39 < aleske> rinn, did you as me?
2008-01-09 16:40 < uls__> the question is, what is the law of wikipedia ?
2008-01-09 16:40 < Juliancolton> there is none
2008-01-09 16:40 < uls__> a case-by-case dealing ok
2008-01-09 16:40 < Rinn> Yeah. You want to make an article about your project?
2008-01-09 16:40 < bumm13> uls__ : go serve out your block(s)
2008-01-09 16:40 < uls__> bumm13: what do you mean ?
2008-01-09 16:40 < kenlyric> uls__: your basic theory is that if we do not apply the principles universally to every article, we are legally liable for that?
2008-01-09 16:40 < The359> If you don't like the way Wikipedia handles itself, then don't go to Wikipedia
2008-01-09 16:40 * Rinn sips Gatorade
2008-01-09 16:40 < Cyrius> aleske: try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_creation
2008-01-09 16:40 * The359 gives Rinn Haterade
2008-01-09 16:41 < uls__> kenlyric: no, as said, there is no legal responsibilty
2008-01-09 16:41 * Rinn chokes and dies
2008-01-09 16:41 < uls__> kenlyric: the foundation covers you all
2008-01-09 16:41 < aleske> Rinn, there are few articles about our project, but yes i look for someone to write it for us
2008-01-09 16:41 < uls__> that's not the point
2008-01-09 16:41 < TheWeasel> uls__: Can't avoid some discretion, there can be no discrete guidelines
2008-01-09 16:41 < The359> What does the Foundation cover?
2008-01-09 16:41 < kenlyric> what is the point?
2008-01-09 16:41 < uls__> liability
2008-01-09 16:41 < Rinn> aleske: You can't write it yourself?
2008-01-09 16:41 < uls__> for example
2008-01-09 16:41 < bumm13> uls__: please stop disrupting the channel when your block reason has been explained to you
2008-01-09 16:41 < The359> What liability?
2008-01-09 16:41 < bumm13> go serve out your block(s)
2008-01-09 16:41 < kenlyric> spell it out clearly, because your message is getting diluted.
2008-01-09 16:41 < bumm13> if you have legal issues with the Foundation, contact your attorney
2008-01-09 16:41 < kenlyric> awww. I WANT TOY
2008-01-09 16:41 * kenlyric pouts
2008-01-09 16:42 < TheWeasel> I think he meant that the liability thing was independent of his cause
2008-01-09 16:42 < uls__> bumm13: you don't understand me, there is no legal case or problem. the discussion was about communities and how they work and what to do with my case
2008-01-09 16:42 < TheWeasel> just trying to explain what a foundation does
2008-01-09 16:42 < uls__> correct
2008-01-09 16:42 < bumm13> I think he's being intentionally vague and confusing
2008-01-09 16:43 < TheWeasel> uls__: Now you know.
2008-01-09 16:43 < uls__> i don't think so.
2008-01-09 16:43 < uls__> yes@theWeasel
2008-01-09 16:43 < bumm13> uls__: you were blocked for spamming
2008-01-09 16:43 < kenlyric> we can't possibly apply the same response to similar articles if we do not know they are similar articles.
2008-01-09 16:43 < bumm13> so don't spam
2008-01-09 16:43 < TheWeasel> Case closed :-)
2008-01-09 16:43 < aleske> rinn: i would spend time, to seek supportive people, but we have no capacities now, we face a lot of problems, tensions are high,
2008-01-09 16:43 < uls__> kenlyric: and that was exactly the original point, i marked them as similar cases.
2008-01-09 16:44 < aleske> i would write it myself, but i understood that in this chat i could find editors, who would do that for us, if they like the project...
2008-01-09 16:44 < TheWeasel> why are you telling us that?
2008-01-09 16:44 < TheWeasel> we're on IRC here
2008-01-09 16:44 < TheWeasel> plus, while people try to handle equal cases about equally, nothing says we guarantee it.
2008-01-09 16:45 < TheWeasel> that's not even bad faith, it just comes naturally with a big project like this one
2008-01-09 16:45 < uls__> so, when i have had a case, i may not point to other articles as that's then considered vandalism ...
2008-01-09 16:45 < Cyrius> the article was even AFDed
2008-01-09 16:45 < kenlyric> and they're not even equal cases.
2008-01-09 16:45 < bumm13> uls__ : not when you spam, no
2008-01-09 16:45 < TheWeasel> We're not a state, we give a lot to people, but we owe very little
2008-01-09 16:45 < kenlyric> he wants some sort of hard rule about notability.
2008-01-09 16:45 < bumm13> he's not going to get one
2008-01-09 16:46 < kenlyric> exactly
2008-01-09 16:46 < bumm13> and he wasn't writing an article, anyway
2008-01-09 16:46 < NotACow> kenlyric: there are people trying to do that.. they're insane.
2008-01-09 16:46 < bumm13> just spamming
2008-01-09 16:46 < Cyrius> Wikipedia is not Freshmeat. Wikipedia is not a tool for promoting your own projects.
2008-01-09 16:46 < NotACow> ENGAGE THE NOTABILITRON
2008-01-09 16:46 < kenlyric> notability meter is 2.79354
2008-01-09 16:46 < kenlyric> REJECT
2008-01-09 16:46 < uls__> gosh, i backen what you guys do
2008-01-09 16:46 < bumm13> his junk got deleted, so he went on a "these aren't notable, either" tantrum/tirade
2008-01-09 16:46 < TheWeasel> Those things are inherently illogical.
2008-01-09 16:46 < uls__> correct
2008-01-09 16:46 < NotACow> ah, one of those people
2008-01-09 16:47 < TheWeasel> except in very sure cases
2008-01-09 16:47 < NotACow> "If you won't have my article, then you won't have any of my competitor's either."
2008-01-09 16:47 < TheWeasel> BUT that doesn't mean they're illegitimate
2008-01-09 16:47 < NotACow> people like that normally get banned.
2008-01-09 16:47 < TheWeasel> (decisionism)
2008-01-09 16:47 < uls__> or legitimate
2008-01-09 16:47 < kenlyric> and your competition with them makes you uniquely unqualified to make the notability determination.
2008-01-09 16:47 < uls__> why do you ban these people ? do they disrupt your perosnal feeling of chaotism?
2008-01-09 16:47 < TheWeasel> the burden of proof does not rest on our side.
2008-01-09 16:48 < TheWeasel> o.o
2008-01-09 16:48 * Rinn giggles
2008-01-09 16:48 < kenlyric> I think we've reached the point of total failure in this topic.
2008-01-09 16:48 < uls__> :-)
2008-01-09 16:48 < NotACow> uls__: because they're being disruptive and unhelpful
2008-01-09 16:48 < TheWeasel> You spammed, that's why that happened.
2008-01-09 16:48 < Cyrius> because they are invariably trying to abuse Wikipedia for promotional purposes
2008-01-09 16:48 < NotACow> Cyrius: worse, they're being annoying
2008-01-09 16:48 < NotACow> Cyrius: i don't care if people spam wikipedia, as long as they do so in a manner that benefits wikipedia.
2008-01-09 16:48 < uls__> i think they show you the mirrot.
2008-01-09 16:48 < uls__> mirror.
2008-01-09 16:49 < Cyrius> NotACow: it's a subset of annoyance =)
2008-01-09 16:49 < uls__> and what you see, you don't like ;-)
2008-01-09 16:49 < TheWeasel> annoyingness is a bad criterion.
2008-01-09 16:49 < bumm13> whether the original article had merit or not, vandalizing articles = block
2008-01-09 16:49 < NotACow> uls__: wikipedia has lots of warts. don't make yourself another one.
2008-01-09 16:49 < kenlyric> boy. we've moved from the Supreme Court to Freud.
2008-01-09 16:49 < Rinn> I broke a mirror once.
2008-01-09 16:49 < Juliancolton> :P
2008-01-09 16:49 < TheWeasel> uls__: No, it's a far view of the people involved, and people don't like what they see
2008-01-09 16:49 < kenlyric> Rinn: did you get IRC the day after?
2008-01-09 16:49 < uls__> NotACow: ok, so to be productive and positivistic, why is there no good rule for notability?
2008-01-09 16:49 < kenlyric> seven years of bad luck...
2008-01-09 16:49 < Cyrius> kenlyric: I thought we were staring into Nietzsche's abyss
2008-01-09 16:49 < NotACow> uls__: because nobody knows what notability is.
2008-01-09 16:49 < NotACow> uls__: it's kinda like pron.
2008-01-09 16:49 < bumm13> uls__ : quit talking mumbo-jumbo
2008-01-09 16:50 < kenlyric> uls__: the same reason there's no good rule for pornography.
2008-01-09 16:50 < Cyrius> uls__: because it's impossible to write one.
2008-01-09 16:50 < kenlyric> NotACow: damn you
2008-01-09 16:50 < bumm13> if you don't like the process used, try requesting undeletion
2008-01-09 16:50 < kenlyric> uls__: you write one and come back to us, okay?
2008-01-09 16:50 < NotACow> kenlyric: you can't damn me. i'm pure evil, just ask jimbo
2008-01-09 16:50 < bumm13> don't go around spamming and vandalizing articles because you're mad
2008-01-09 16:50 < uls__> kenlyric: about notability?
2008-01-09 16:50 < Cyrius> if we could write one, we would have and saved the trouble with arguing with people
2008-01-09 16:50 < TheWeasel> I thought the problem was spamming rather than notability
2008-01-09 16:50 < uls__> bumm13: don't insult me
2008-01-09 16:50 < kenlyric> uls__: go write a concrete notability guideline.
2008-01-09 16:50 < uls__> ok
2008-01-09 16:50 < NotACow> spamanotability.
2008-01-09 16:50 < Cyrius> TheWeasel: a little from column A...a little from column B
2008-01-09 16:51 < NotACow> concrete is clearly notable.
2008-01-09 16:51 < TheWeasel> right
2008-01-09 16:51 < Cyrius> yes, it is a valuable building material
2008-01-09 16:51 < NotACow> quikrete is notable too
2008-01-09 16:51 < bumm13> uls__ : don't act indignant when you full well know what I said and meant
2008-01-09 16:51 < uls__> hold on, could be a language misunderstanding
2008-01-09 16:51 < kenlyric> even shoddy concrete is notable.
2008-01-09 16:51 < NotACow> concrete sand should probably be a redirect
2008-01-09 16:51 < bumm13> anyway, this is the issue ---
2008-01-09 16:51 < bumm13> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Klaqopen
2008-01-09 16:52 < bumm13> read and enjoy
2008-01-09 16:52 * kenlyric wonders which word could be mistranslated?
2008-01-09 16:52 < kenlyric> spamming, or mad?
2008-01-09 16:52 < Rinn> At this point, I think it might be "don't."
2008-01-09 16:52 < TheWeasel> mad
2008-01-09 16:52 < kenlyric> maybe he thinks it means "crazy"
2008-01-09 16:52 < TheWeasel> precisely.
2008-01-09 16:53 < kenlyric> see, we solved something today!
2008-01-09 16:53 < kenlyric> victory!
2008-01-09 16:53 < uls__> :-)
2008-01-09 16:53 < Juliancolton> what did we solve exactly?
2008-01-09 16:53 < NotACow> Juliancolton: world hunger.
2008-01-09 16:53 < Rinn> Something about something in relation to something.
2008-01-09 16:53 * TheWeasel eats ice-cream at an alarming rate
2008-01-09 16:53 < Rinn> I still have Smarties!
2008-01-09 16:53 < NotACow> Juliancolton: starving children in africa can eat wikipedia articles.
2008-01-09 16:53 < kenlyric> Juliancolton: that bumm13 meant uls__ was angry, not insane.
2008-01-09 16:54 < bumm13> what a victory :-p
2008-01-09 16:54 < kenlyric> Rinn: from halloween?
2008-01-09 16:54 < Juliancolton> this coversation is making no sense.
2008-01-09 16:54 < TheWeasel> kind of like "No, man, you don't understand, I NEED that ice cream. Come on, man, let me through!" *scuffle, foam at the mouth, then weeping
2008-01-09 16:54 < yao_ziyuan> i am using an offline downloader, ScrapBook, which is a firefox extension, to download wikipedia pages...
2008-01-09 16:54 < Rinn> No, from when I went to the store and bought Smarties.
2008-01-09 16:54 < NotACow> Juliancolton: it's irc, what did you expect, a ceramic pineapple?
2008-01-09 16:54 < yao_ziyuan> the problem is, after some requests, my user account automatically logs out
2008-01-09 16:54 < kenlyric> I mean, not a single one of us is going to be upset when uls__ comes up with a rock-solid, unambiguous notability guideline, right?
2008-01-09 16:54 < Juliancolton> back at wiki-hurricanes they talk about articles
2008-01-09 16:54 < Juliancolton> not nonsense
2008-01-09 16:54 < NotACow> Juliancolton: hurricanes do not exist.
2008-01-09 16:55 < Juliancolton> #wiki-hurricanes
2008-01-09 16:55 < Juliancolton> try it
2008-01-09 16:55 < bumm13> and naming non-tropical systems ;p
2008-01-09 16:55 < bumm13> quit spamming, thanks
2008-01-09 16:55 < kenlyric> Juliancolton: this is more about wikipedia-fu than article-fu.
2008-01-09 16:55 < TheWeasel> Hurricanes are a fig man of your E-Magi nation.
2008-01-09 16:55 < kenlyric> article-fu comes up naturally
2008-01-09 16:56 < kenlyric> I bookmarked starshield sentinals a month ago and still haven't fixed it.
2008-01-09 16:56 < kenlyric> I fail
2008-01-09 16:56 < bumm13> d'oh
2008-01-09 16:56 < uls__> kenlyric: thanks ... that's at least a possible solution for solving this arbitrariness
2008-01-09 16:56 < yao_ziyuan> i know why now
2008-01-09 16:56 < yao_ziyuan> the crawler goes to the "log out" link...
2008-01-09 16:57 < kenlyric> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starshield
2008-01-09 16:57 < kenlyric> best citations *ever*
2008-01-09 16:57 < TheWeasel> Yea, the starch yield was great this year
2008-01-09 16:57 < aleske> i don't want to bother anyone, but i was encouraged in this chat some time ago, as people here found our project groundbreaking, to search here for an editor, as its not good to write on ones one project. now, we can't do that, we have a crisis and are on the egde of civil war. i just want to know, do you think i can find someone, to write an article on us?
2008-01-09 16:58 < nazgjunk> kenlyric, hahahha
2008-01-09 16:58 < nazgjunk> <3
2008-01-09 16:58 < TheWeasel> aleske: For goodness sake do it in secret.
2008-01-09 16:58 < TheWeasel> don't let anybody notice, less yet through logs, that you're trying to "recruit" people to write on your project
2008-01-09 16:58 < TheWeasel> o.o
2008-01-09 16:59 < TheWeasel> people will come up with the weirdest "evil network" theories known to man
2008-01-09 16:59 < aleske> TheWeasel: yeah, time is a problem, we are just few people, selfexploited as most of you, i wouldn't come to search for somebody...if i would have time, but thx for your answer
2008-01-09 16:59 < kenlyric> get real reporters to report on you.
2008-01-09 16:59 < TheWeasel> oh welcome, sorry for being so negative
2008-01-09 17:00 < kenlyric> then we can write an article.
2008-01-09 17:00 < kenlyric> heck, get wikinews reporters.
2008-01-09 17:00 < kenlyric> they're almost real reporters.
2008-01-09 17:00 < aleske> ok... reporters, where???
2008-01-09 17:00 < aleske> i'm not a native speaker and not very smart, i guess i mixed something up
2008-01-09 17:00 < TheWeasel> internet papers :-)
2008-01-09 17:00 < TheWeasel> oh, German sources are alright
2008-01-09 17:01 < aleske> we have american sources and british an even irish
2008-01-09 17:01 < TheWeasel> independent?
2008-01-09 17:01 < aleske> bbc, voice of america,independent yes
2008-01-09 17:01 < TheWeasel> sounds good.
2008-01-09 17:02 < TheWeasel> o.o the Phoenix translator
2008-01-09 17:02 < TheWeasel> she's very German
2008-01-09 17:02 < Phoenix-busy> what?
2008-01-09 17:02 < TheWeasel> "Change is coming" "Der Wandel findet statt!"
2008-01-09 17:02 < TheWeasel> Sorry for the ping
2008-01-09 17:02 < TheWeasel> Ph*enix is a German TV channel
2008-01-09 17:03 < kenlyric> how could bbc report and it not be in wikipedia. Isn't that stuff instant now?
2008-01-09 17:03 < kenlyric> our underground lair of BBC trolls has failed us.
2008-01-09 17:03 < aleske> can i post here the bbc link?
2008-01-09 17:03 < TheWeasel> certainly, if you like
2008-01-09 17:03 < aleske> well its a radio show
2008-01-09 17:04 < TheWeasel> oh
2008-01-09 17:04 < TheWeasel> give a time when you cite I guess :-)
2008-01-09 17:04 < aleske> http://www.slum-tv.info/?page_id=37 well, better the press clipping of the project
2008-01-09 17:06 < Phoenix-wiki> :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ANon-administrator_rollback&diff=183263501&oldid=183260721#Admin_question.2C_moved
2008-01-09 17:06 < Phoenix-wiki> I just spent the last 7 or 8 mins writing that
2008-01-09 17:06 < TheWeasel> Oh, look, Jungle World :-)
2008-01-09 17:06 < kenlyric> I do find it odd we don't have an article on this.
2008-01-09 17:07 < uls__> must have been deleted due to notability ;-)
2008-01-09 17:07 < TheWeasel> the VoA is the most citeable thing, there's a terrible tendency to say "if it's not available in simple English for free on the internet, it didn't happen"
2008-01-09 17:07 < Phoenix-wiki> no one's even going to look at it?! :-(
2008-01-09 17:07 < TheWeasel> (written)
2008-01-09 17:08 < DannyLilithborne> Flash
2008-01-09 17:08 < DannyLilithborne> aaaah
2008-01-09 17:08 < DannyLilithborne> king of the impossible
2008-01-09 17:11 < kenlyric> aleske: it's the end of the day here, but I've bookmarked your site for further review.
2008-01-09 17:11 < kenlyric> at the very least it maybe worth mention on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathare
2008-01-09 17:12 < aleske> kenlyric: great and thx, if you contact slum-tv, i'll answer you, great also for mathare, but we for sure break out of the local context
2008-01-09 17:13 < aleske> we'll help anyone, who helps us now, for us its important to have as soon as possible a wikipedia article, and we would be very thankful, for wikireporters
2008-01-09 17:14 < Lubaf> [[Wikipedia:Ignore "Ignore All Rules"]]: I see a great need.
2008-01-09 17:15 < TheWeasel> IAR is our natural law
2008-01-09 17:15 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-01-09 17:15 < TheWeasel> But it's subsidiary to everything else
2008-01-09 17:15 < kenlyric> Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny
2008-01-09 17:16 < TheWeasel> this is not a means of penultimate resort
2008-01-09 17:16 < TheWeasel> :-)
2008-01-09 17:17 < NotACow> peninsular resort
2008-01-09 17:18 < kenlyric> st petersburg?
2008-01-09 17:18 < Yert> moscow?
2008-01-09 17:18 < NotACow> INVASION
2008-01-09 17:18 < Yert> commies?
2008-01-09 17:19 < kenlyric> commies want a concrete notability rule.
2008-01-09 17:19 < kenlyric> they think everyone is notable!
2008-01-09 17:19 < uls__> :-)
2008-01-09 17:19 < NotACow> EVERYTHING IS NOTABLE
2008-01-09 17:19 < NotACow> except for me, of course
2008-01-09 17:20 < gwern> it still amazes me that there was a riot during the premiere of [[The Rite of Spring]]
2008-01-09 17:20 < gwern> when did the West lose its passion for art?
2008-01-09 17:20 < uls__> that's an easy rule ... but i don't think i'd be happy if everything is notable .... a certain threshold is never bad
2008-01-09 17:20 * gwern is watching Fantasia, you see
2008-01-09 17:20 * TheWeasel deletes NotACow
2008-01-09 17:20 < NotACow> gwern: when walt disney became the leading producer of children's programming
2008-01-09 17:20 < gwern> 'The complex music and violent dance steps depicting fertility rites first drew catcalls and whistles from the crowd. At the start with the opening bassoon solo, the audience began to boo loudly due to the slight dischord in the background notes behind the bassoon's opening melody. There were loud arguments in the audience between supporters and opponents of the work. These were soon followed by shouts and fistfights in the aisles. The unrest in the ...
2008-01-09 17:21 < gwern> ... audience eventually degenerated into a riot. The Paris police arrived by intermission, but they restored only limited order. Chaos reigned for the remainder of the performance, and Stravinsky himself was so upset on account of its reception that he fled the theater in mid-scene, reportedly crying.[2]'
2008-01-09 17:21 < kenlyric> paris?
2008-01-09 17:21 < kenlyric> see, it wasn't even our fault.
2008-01-09 17:21 < TheWeasel> Rites of Spring is hard to chew on first listen, to be sure
2008-01-09 17:22 < kenlyric> I thought you meant a riot at a showing of fantasia.
2008-01-09 17:22 < shimgray> they were really quite touchy back then
2008-01-09 17:22 < gwern> kenlyric: who are you trying to fool? you are obviously a frog!
2008-01-09 17:22 < kenlyric> that would have been a better story.
2008-01-09 17:22 < TheWeasel> ribbit.
2008-01-09 17:23 < gwern> 'The Walt Disney studios countered his assertions with detailed reports and photographs of Stravinsky's visit to the studio in which he was shown an early version of the sequence. "Ah, yes! That is just what I meant, I suppose!" he chuckled. He is seen in various photographs smiling and holding animation reference maquettes, and after seeing the piece, he gave Disney rights to film The Firebird in any subsequent version of Fantasia.' <-- huh. so ...
2008-01-09 17:23 < gwern> ... that's why the firebird was used in fantasia 2000
2008-01-09 17:25 < TheWeasel> Lâchez-moiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
2008-01-09 17:25 * TheWeasel watches an ARTE film
2008-01-09 17:25 < aleske> ok, thx for all, as the austrian love to say: i'll be back
2008-01-09 17:26 < TheWeasel> tschö
2008-01-09 17:26 < gwern> [[Image:Adult Wikipe-tan.png]] <-- not nearly adult enough
2008-01-09 17:26 < gwern> we'll know wikipe-tan has made it when some hentai of her surfaces :)
2008-01-09 17:26 < Suva> Hey
2008-01-09 17:26 < uls> salü
2008-01-09 17:26 < Suva> Is there any people from UK or US here?
2008-01-09 17:26 < Suva> I have english question
2008-01-09 17:27 < gwern> 'Whew, this adult version made me skip a beat. <3'
2008-01-09 17:27 * TheWeasel has coldish feet
2008-01-09 17:27 < Suva> Which one is correct: "This is the first time I have been writing this test" "I am writing this test for the first time"
2008-01-09 17:27 < TheWeasel> depends on whether you've finished or not
2008-01-09 17:27 < Suva> I am not finished, I am writing this right now
2008-01-09 17:27 < MessedRocker> thats what she said
2008-01-09 17:28 < TheWeasel> then the second
2008-01-09 17:28 < Suva> And I am doing it for the first time
2008-01-09 17:28 < MessedRocker> thats what she said
2008-01-09 17:28 < gwern> I think if you were in the middle of writing the test, you would say 'This is the first time I am writing this test'?
2008-01-09 17:28 < gwern> that's what he said!
2008-01-09 17:28 < TheWeasel> Well
2008-01-09 17:28 < TheWeasel> no
2008-01-09 17:28 < gwern> it sounds odd no matter how you put it though
2008-01-09 17:28 < TheWeasel> it's like in the first you're at the end of it but still doing it
2008-01-09 17:28 < gwern> I am writing this test for the first time?
2008-01-09 17:29 < MessedRocker> girls can do of for the first time too
2008-01-09 17:29 < TheWeasel> but it sounds weird
2008-01-09 17:29 < Suva> The first form sounds weird for me
2008-01-09 17:29 < Suva> But I am not that good at english
2008-01-09 17:29 < TheWeasel> yea, the second sounds about right
2008-01-09 17:30 < Suva> Present perfect continuous doesn't seem to be right form to be used for the sentence
2008-01-09 17:30 < gwern> I have been writing this test for the first time for a while now...
2008-01-09 17:30 < gwern> [[Image:Wikipe tan casual.png]] <-- just wrong >.<
2008-01-09 17:30 < TheWeasel> no, they need two different tenses imo
2008-01-09 17:30 < MessedRocker> oh we
2008-01-09 17:30 < Suva> gwern: That puts emphasis on the fact that you have wasted lot of time writing it
2008-01-09 17:30 < TheWeasel> "I've been writing this test for two hours now, and I'm getting tired, I'm not used to it, because I'm writing it for the first time."
2008-01-09 17:30 < Suva> gwern: But the emphasis should be on the fact that it is first time for you, and it hurts :P
2008-01-09 17:31 < gwern> I have been writing this sentence about a test I am writing for quite a bit of time now...
2008-01-09 17:31 < Formentar> "I am halfway through this test and have stopped to chat on #wikipedia"? :-)
2008-01-09 17:31 < MessedRocker> oh dear, as it would appear, my wireless signal is low
2008-01-09 17:31 < TheWeasel> Schockschwere Not!
2008-01-09 17:31 < gwern> 'This picture showing about earlier Japanese art, the root of manga... stupid. English manga article is suck!'
2008-01-09 17:31 < MessedRocker> is suck
2008-01-09 17:31 < uls> and now someone tell me again my notability question was spam ....
2008-01-09 17:31 < uls> anyway, gotta go
2008-01-09 17:32 < uls> cya
2008-01-09 17:32 < TheWeasel> I haven't been drinking tonight, for the first time in years."
2008-01-09 17:32 < Suva> TheWeasel: But you are german aswell :P