freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-08 01:34 < Lycurgus_> doesn't seem to be much of a secret here
2008-01-08 01:34 < Mike_H> Someone wiped out all of the gay stuff from his article, even though it was properly sourced
2008-01-08 01:35 < Leslie_S> lol...
2008-01-08 01:35 < Mike_H> I love this comment on the talk page
2008-01-08 01:35 < Leslie_S> a gay republican?
2008-01-08 01:35 < Mike_H> Is that all you care about "gay people"? Who cares if he's gay. 76.110.82.251 01:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
2008-01-08 01:35 < Leslie_S> all republicans are gay.
2008-01-08 01:35 < Mike_H> My parents would care, for one, since they voted for him
2008-01-08 01:36 < Lycurgus_> but not in a good way
2008-01-08 01:36 < Mike_H> I mean, my grandmother only accepts the fact that I'm gay so we can watch TV music awards shows and she can go "Oh, there's that Ricky Martin. Michael, do you like him?"
2008-01-08 01:36 < Lycurgus_> mean backward skanks
2008-01-08 01:36 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: The entire Panhandle would basically care
2008-01-08 01:36 < Mike_H> and that's a big Republican stomping ground
2008-01-08 01:37 < Mike_H> that's an area where you can murder someone in broad daylight, get away with it, and get re-elected, simply if you're a Republican
2008-01-08 01:37 < Lycurgus_> I'm with your granny on Ricky.
2008-01-08 01:37 < Leslie_S> michael, do you like him?
2008-01-08 01:37 < Mike_H> No.
2008-01-08 01:37 * Leslie_S giggles but wants to know
2008-01-08 01:38 < Leslie_S> heh, today i noticed the latches on the doors on my car (a volvo) say "imp from West Germany"
2008-01-08 01:38 < Leslie_S> i had to laugh about it
2008-01-08 01:38 < Mike_H> Peggy: I need 800 cookies by tomorrow. What am I going to do?
2008-01-08 01:39 < Mike_H> Al: Oh, cookies, dilemma dilemma. I remember reading one time, I think it was the Enquirer, a headline that said "Woman bakes cookies: Odd but true!"
2008-01-08 01:39 < jtizzle1854> If someone has a Dvd burner and they take a playstation disk and try to copy it can they copy it? then can they play it on a playstation 2 playstation 2 games are on disks that say DVD on the back of a playsation 2 game case and on the disk
2008-01-08 01:39 < jtizzle1854> ??
2008-01-08 01:39 < Mike_H> Peggy: Oh, is that the same issue where a man had sex with his wife?
2008-01-08 01:39 < Mike_H> Al: If you read really closely, I believe it was the woman who baked the cookies!
2008-01-08 01:40 < Mike_H> Haha, Peggy's baking cookies now
2008-01-08 01:40 < Mike_H> *reading box* "What's a degree?"
2008-01-08 01:41 < jtizzle1854> anyone know about copying a playstation disk to a dvd burner and copying it so you can play it on a playstation?
2008-01-08 01:41 < Lycurgus_> jtizzlw1854: don't do it, it's illegal.
2008-01-08 01:41 < Lycurgus_> we are law abiding folk here.
2008-01-08 01:42 < jtizzle1854> ok it's not like anyone would know
2008-01-08 01:42 < Mike_H> except us.
2008-01-08 01:42 < Lycurgus_> you will know.
2008-01-08 01:42 < jtizzle1854> besides me
2008-01-08 01:42 < jtizzle1854> so i guess ya'll don't know
2008-01-08 01:42 < jtizzle1854> if that would work
2008-01-08 01:43 < Lycurgus_> there are gamers here but not right now, try STFW
2008-01-08 01:43 < jtizzle1854> ??
2008-01-08 01:43 < jtizzle1854> stfw?
2008-01-08 01:43 < Lycurgus_> SEARCH THE FUCKING WEB
2008-01-08 01:43 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-08 01:43 < RobJ1981> Don't be rude about it Lycurgus.
2008-01-08 01:44 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: Yeah, dude, a bit harsh
2008-01-08 01:44 < Lycurgus_> OK, I sorry.
2008-01-08 01:44 < MUNCHLAX> jtizzle1854 you need to mod the ps2/ps3 to do that
2008-01-08 01:44 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-08 01:44 < jtizzle1854> why?
2008-01-08 01:44 < MUNCHLAX> because a legit disc has a bad sector
2008-01-08 01:44 < MUNCHLAX> on purpose
2008-01-08 01:45 < MUNCHLAX> and if it doesn't see that bad sector it won't play it
2008-01-08 01:45 < MUNCHLAX> that's how they do region coding too
2008-01-08 01:45 < jtizzle1854> what's a bad sector?
2008-01-08 01:45 < MUNCHLAX> when a sector of the disc is bad
2008-01-08 01:45 < MUNCHLAX> beyond that STFW
2008-01-08 01:45 < jtizzle1854> how do movie companies put region coding on disks what thing or device does that?
2008-01-08 01:45 < Rinn> A sector under bad influences.
2008-01-08 01:45 < jtizzle1854> i've always wondered that
2008-01-08 01:46 < Mark_Ryan> jtizzle1854, it might be on Wikipedia. you should consider using Wikipedia.
2008-01-08 01:46 < Lycurgus_> and the sector isn't really bad, it's just marked that way in the sector map
2008-01-08 01:46 < jtizzle1854> do you know muchlax?
2008-01-08 01:46 < jtizzle1854> munchlax
2008-01-08 01:46 < Lycurgus_> in a way this protection scheme can recognize
2008-01-08 01:46 < MUNCHLAX> if it was just marked that way, couldn't you just burn one with a bad map?
2008-01-08 01:47 < Lycurgus_> not necessarilly, normally burning software
2008-01-08 01:47 < jtizzle1854> hey munchlax what do movie companies use to put region coding on disks what thing or device does that?
2008-01-08 01:47 < MUNCHLAX> I don't know
2008-01-08 01:48 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-08 01:48 < MUNCHLAX> Lycurgus_, if it was just an issue with the data, someone would have written software that will burn the map that way
2008-01-08 01:48 < Drunken_Idiot> Wikipedia search engine is slow
2008-01-08 01:48 < Drunken_Idiot> :(
2008-01-08 01:48 < Lycurgus_> wouldn't create the map with the pattern of failure the protection scheme can distinguish from an ordinary bad sector
2008-01-08 01:49 < Lycurgus_> it needn't be deterministically the same each time
2008-01-08 01:50 < Drunken_Idiot> Lycurgus_: Aren't you away?
2008-01-08 01:50 < Lycurgus_> just retrievable/recognizable by the algorithm that recognizes it as the planted bad sector
2008-01-08 01:50 < Lycurgus_> everywhere except this channel
2008-01-08 01:52 < Lycurgus_> almost certainly the algorithm encodes a non-deterministic value for the sector from a serial number for the product
2008-01-08 01:53 < Lycurgus_> if the algorithm were known, you could "fake" the bad sector
2008-01-08 01:53 < Lycurgus_> or sectors
2008-01-08 01:54 < jtizzle1854> so if you tried to copy a ps2 game it would skip the bad sectors and wouldn't copy them?
2008-01-08 01:54 < Lycurgus_> the function must also however be a function of the burning process and that makes me think in turn something to do with
2008-01-08 01:54 < Drunken_Idiot> Bye bye
2008-01-08 01:54 < Lycurgus_> time signatures of when sectors were written
2008-01-08 02:06 < MUNCHLAX> who wants to delete http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomp
2008-01-08 02:08 < Rinn> I do! But I can't.
2008-01-08 02:09 * Mike_H pets Rinn
2008-01-08 02:09 * Rinn has a heart attack and dies
2008-01-08 02:09 < Mike_H> :(
2008-01-08 02:13 < MUNCHLAX> Rinn, put it on AFD please?
2008-01-08 02:14 < Rinn> No account.
2008-01-08 02:15 < michaelkthx> AntiSpamMeta
2008-01-08 02:15 < MUNCHLAX> oh
2008-01-08 02:16 < Mike_H> bleh, I do not like RobJ1981
2008-01-08 02:16 < MUNCHLAX> Mike_H, can you be my meatpuppet?
2008-01-08 02:17 < Mike_H> no
2008-01-08 02:17 < MUNCHLAX> :(
2008-01-08 02:26 < Schroeder> BOB SANDERS WINS DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR! HELL YES!
2008-01-08 02:26 < Schroeder> DO YOU REMEMBER THE FIRST TIME WE MET, LIVING TOGETHER IN COLOSSAL TIMES?
2008-01-08 04:17 < Hildanknight> What do you call a list of movies/articles/whatever that have won a specific award?
2008-01-08 04:17 < Hildanknight> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:GA would be an example of such a list.
2008-01-08 04:21 * The359 is surprised there is no article on the Burns Harbor steel plant
2008-01-08 04:38 * Mike_H applied for accreditation on Wikinews
2008-01-08 04:41 < bumm13> yay
2008-01-08 04:44 * The359 votes for denial
2008-01-08 05:00 < MitalVora> wikipedia pages apparently has rss feed but when I try to subscribe to them they give error
2008-01-08 05:00 < MitalVora> do anybody has any idea.. how to go about it?
2008-01-08 05:00 < bumm13> t5rrrrrrrrrrrkj]
2008-01-08 05:00 < bumm13> (darn cat ;p )
2008-01-08 05:01 < MitalVora> for e.g. it needs to add all those IP addresses to th
2008-01-08 05:01 < MitalVora> sorry for that
2008-01-08 05:01 * bumm13 has no idea about such RSS feeds :x
2008-01-08 05:02 < MitalVora> if you check source of wikipedia's page you will find link for the same
2008-01-08 05:02 < MitalVora> see orange icon in firefox's address bar
2008-01-08 05:02 < MitalVora> I am wondering if this feature actually exists
2008-01-08 05:03 < bumm13> it doesn't sound familiar to me
2008-01-08 05:04 < MitalVora> bumm13,: rss ?
2008-01-08 05:04 < bumm13> an rss feature
2008-01-08 05:19 < Shiroi_Neko> THY SHALL TALK
2008-01-08 05:20 * Shiroi_Neko makes bumm13 talk
2008-01-08 05:23 < azymuth> why is the array not working -> onclick="execute_app(e, new Array(s + \'+imagelinks[ry]+\'))">')
2008-01-08 06:16 < Lycurgus_> based on first two towns, looks like Clinton will be clobbered in NH
2008-01-08 06:39 < amidaniel|away> bumm13: Would you mind joining #wikimedia-ops ?
2008-01-08 06:41 < Grammaticus> Good day everyone
2008-01-08 06:41 < ^demon> Hello.
2008-01-08 06:41 < amidaniel|away> Hi Grammaticus
2008-01-08 06:41 < Grammaticus> Would anyone here be interested in embarking on a new wikipedia project?
2008-01-08 06:42 < Grammaticus> Eh.. Apathy -- as presumed.
2008-01-08 06:43 < amidaniel|away> Well, you're likely not going to rally much support without explaining what it is you're rallying support for :)
2008-01-08 06:43 < Grammaticus> Yes, you are correct. Although, to begin, I suppose I should enter a proposal here : http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
2008-01-08 06:44 < Grammaticus> Perhaps it would not garner much attention.
2008-01-08 06:45 < Simon-> you didn't even wait 60 seconds for a reply
2008-01-08 06:45 < ^demon> Not to mention, it's still very early in the US, where a lot of traffic in this channel comes from.
2008-01-08 06:45 < ^demon> It's only 6:45am on the *east* coast.
2008-01-08 06:45 < Grammaticus> Yes, you're correct.
2008-01-08 06:45 < Grammaticus> Yes, I am currently in the same time zone.
2008-01-08 06:46 < Aqwis> tell us about the project
2008-01-08 06:47 < amidaniel|away> 4:47am here :)
2008-01-08 06:47 < Grammaticus> It would simply be a 'classic' cyclopedia -- as one would see in print. Completely devoid of all 'low culture' -- or 'popular culture'. This is a brief summary.
2008-01-08 06:48 < amidaniel|away> Sounds a bit like citizendium, but do continue :)
2008-01-08 06:48 < Grammaticus> It seems impossible to navigate around Wikipedia without stumbling on some pop-culture link.
2008-01-08 06:48 < Grammaticus> Citizendium?
2008-01-08 06:49 < amidaniel|away> http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Citizendium
2008-01-08 06:49 < Aqwis> why would we need that?
2008-01-08 06:49 < Aqwis> if you don't want to read pop culture articles, don't read them
2008-01-08 06:50 * amidaniel|away silently notes that Wikipedia's article on Citizendium appears much more thorough and well-written than Citizendium's article on the topic
2008-01-08 06:50 < Triona> I've got my own ideas, but they require new, or heavily rewritten software.
2008-01-08 06:50 < Grammaticus> Nevertheless, it would be designed as a 'classic' encyclopedia -- something that wikipedia certainly is not.
2008-01-08 06:51 < DannyLilithborne> Oh that's awesome.
2008-01-08 06:51 < Grammaticus> It would be a static encyclopedia, moreover -- one with a general aim. Not one that is constantly edited due to the changing of times.
2008-01-08 06:51 < Aqwis> 'classic' encyclopadeias are hardly NPOV
2008-01-08 06:51 < DannyLilithborne> Let's take everything that people argue about on Wikipedia
2008-01-08 06:51 < DannyLilithborne> and make it the only thing there!
2008-01-08 06:51 < Aqwis> *encyclopaedias
2008-01-08 06:51 < DannyLilithborne> It'll be totally peacful!
2008-01-08 06:52 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: Hmm .. seems to me that there are a lot of non-wikimedia projects with this target; i.e., msn encarta, citizendium (to some extent)
2008-01-08 06:52 < Aqwis> you still haven't mentioned any reason why we *need* something like that
2008-01-08 06:52 < Grammaticus> Well, I enjoy using wikipedia -- I believe that the interface is reasonable -- but I prefer not to dishearted myself with modern topics.
2008-01-08 06:52 < amidaniel|away> Of course, I don't understand what the desire would be for a less comprehensive encyclopedia, but that's just me :)
2008-01-08 06:53 < Grammaticus> Warfare, popular culture, modern erotica.
2008-01-08 06:53 < Grammaticus> School shootings, etc.
2008-01-08 06:53 < nazgjunk> warfare is modern?
2008-01-08 06:53 < Grammaticus> Modern warfare.
2008-01-08 06:53 < Aqwis> Grammaticus, then ignore those articles
2008-01-08 06:53 < Aqwis> just because you live in 1900 doesn't mean anyone else are interested in doing that
2008-01-08 06:53 < DannyLilithborne> lol
2008-01-08 06:53 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: I understand why you might dislike that ... but then why use a wiki model?
2008-01-08 06:53 < nazgjunk> I don't think you can ignore any war of the past 50 years when looking at the world
2008-01-08 06:53 < DannyLilithborne> I don't have the same problem...
2008-01-08 06:54 < amidaniel|away> Why not just use an existing static online encyclopedia
2008-01-08 06:54 < amidaniel|away> ?
2008-01-08 06:54 < DannyLilithborne> Like I said
2008-01-08 06:54 < DannyLilithborne> all the topics you're talking about are the ones that jam up ANI all day every day
2008-01-08 06:54 < Grammaticus> Because they are not very democratic.
2008-01-08 06:54 < Grammaticus> ANI?
2008-01-08 06:54 < Aqwis> you're not answering my question, Grammaticus
2008-01-08 06:54 < DannyLilithborne> administrators' noticeboard
2008-01-08 06:54 < amidaniel|away> An encyclopedia needs to be democratic?
2008-01-08 06:54 < Grammaticus> Which was...?
2008-01-08 06:54 < Aqwis> why can't you choose to ignore those articles?
2008-01-08 06:55 < DannyLilithborne> every day someone whining that it's called the republic of china and not taiwan or whatever (No offense!)
2008-01-08 06:55 < Grammaticus> Because, every classical article tends to have a 'Pop culture' section on the bottom.
2008-01-08 06:55 < Aqwis> then ignore it
2008-01-08 06:55 < Aqwis> yawn
2008-01-08 06:55 < Grammaticus> Relating to how Callimachus and Batman used the same words.
2008-01-08 06:55 < Aqwis> noone's forcing you to read it
2008-01-08 06:55 < Grammaticus> Or how Master G had a picture of Jan van Eyck in his bedroom.
2008-01-08 06:55 < arcimboldo_> Yep, we've got "Tapeworms in popular culture" and all other kind of stuff.
2008-01-08 06:55 < amidaniel|away> Aqwis: Your solutions are rather counterproductive :)
2008-01-08 06:55 < Triona> Grammaticus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Trivia
2008-01-08 06:55 < Aqwis> i'm not sure why, amidaniel|away
2008-01-08 06:56 < Aqwis> creating a separate article to reach some pointless goal is more counterproductive
2008-01-08 06:56 < Triona> There's guidence right there for fixing those sections when you see them.
2008-01-08 06:56 < DannyLilithborne> lol
2008-01-08 06:56 < Aqwis> *a seperate 'pedia
2008-01-08 06:56 < Triona> A seperate encyclopedia is hardly necessary
2008-01-08 06:56 < Grammaticus> Well, I do believe that a 'Classic' wikipedia already exists.
2008-01-08 06:56 < nazgjunk> "encarta"
2008-01-08 06:56 < Aqwis> it exists
2008-01-08 06:56 < Grammaticus> This touches upon all matters dating before the birth of Christ.
2008-01-08 06:56 < Aqwis> it is wikipedia if you ignore the content you dislike
2008-01-08 06:57 < nazgjunk> Grammaticus, that's not very npov.
2008-01-08 06:57 < nazgjunk> it's a rather arbitrary date
2008-01-08 06:57 < amidaniel|away> Aqwis: The complaint is that pop culture invading articles on classical topics impededes the readability of the articles / encyclopedia. Saying "ignore the bad parts of the articles" is not much of a solution :)
2008-01-08 06:57 < Grammaticus> nazgjunk, I am not aware of the Wikipedian cant.
2008-01-08 06:57 < Grammaticus> npov?
2008-01-08 06:57 < Grammaticus> ...Point of View?
2008-01-08 06:57 < Aqwis> amidaniel|away, as long as it's in separate section, it is very ignorable and a solution
2008-01-08 06:57 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: Neutral Point of View
2008-01-08 06:57 < Aqwis> *sections
2008-01-08 06:58 < Grammaticus> It is quite difficult at times... I believe I have a reasonable example...
2008-01-08 06:58 < Grammaticus> One moment
2008-01-08 06:59 < Grammaticus> Or, ah!
2008-01-08 06:59 < Aqwis> popular culture impact us and our culture so much that ignoring popular culture is not an option
2008-01-08 06:59 < Grammaticus> This example was repaired -- it was something in the Marie Antoinette article.
2008-01-08 06:59 < Aqwis> if you want an encylopaedia without that, fork Wikipedia
2008-01-08 06:59 < Grammaticus> Yes it is, Aqwis.
2008-01-08 06:59 < Grammaticus> I do so every day.
2008-01-08 07:00 < Aqwis> Grammaticus, i'm not telling YOU not to do it, i'm saying that the encylopaedia should not do it
2008-01-08 07:00 < Grammaticus> Simply dispose of your television, as I have done.
2008-01-08 07:00 < amidaniel|away> Aqwis: He's saying he wants to fork wikipedia :)
2008-01-08 07:00 < Aqwis> amidaniel|away, he's saying the WMF should make it an official project, it seems
2008-01-08 07:00 < Grammaticus> Aqwis, may I propose this?
2008-01-08 07:00 < Aqwis> Grammaticus, well, you can't expect everyone to be hippies without TVs
2008-01-08 07:01 < Aqwis> :)
2008-01-08 07:01 < Grammaticus> ...Allow me to acquire an example.
2008-01-08 07:01 < Grammaticus> Hippie?
2008-01-08 07:01 < Grammaticus> Haha.
2008-01-08 07:01 < amidaniel|away> Well, the foundation likely would never pick it up, but there's no reason you can't do it on your own.
2008-01-08 07:01 < Aqwis> no, not hippie
2008-01-08 07:01 < amidaniel|away> Just not sure how much support you'd get for it.
2008-01-08 07:01 < Grammaticus> I thought hippies were quite fond thereof.
2008-01-08 07:01 < Aqwis> but you get the point
2008-01-08 07:01 < Aqwis> the vast majority of people in Europe and the US care about pop culture
2008-01-08 07:01 < brown_cat> chris crocker is back -_- http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AdnHlgiNZFk
2008-01-08 07:02 < Grammaticus> Look at this page : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Striptease_%28spectacle%29
2008-01-08 07:02 < Aqwis> we can't adjust Wikipedia to suit the people who don't
2008-01-08 07:02 < Grammaticus> Do you see the bottom... the 'dérouler' tab.
2008-01-08 07:02 < Grammaticus> This should be done with popular culture.
2008-01-08 07:02 < Aqwis> then i encourage you to fork Wikipedia
2008-01-08 07:02 < Aqwis> trying to change it is counter-productive
2008-01-08 07:03 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: That's done with a lot of things -- pop culture isn't typically one of them.
2008-01-08 07:03 < Grammaticus> It very well should be.
2008-01-08 07:03 < amidaniel|away> I doubt you'll find support for that on Wikipedia, but you're more than welcome to propose it.
2008-01-08 07:03 < Grammaticus> For popular culture is more vulgar and distasting than some filthy woman on a stripper's pole.
2008-01-08 07:04 < amidaniel|away> WP:VPP of WT:MOS would be good places to start
2008-01-08 07:04 < Aqwis> be realistic
2008-01-08 07:04 < Grammaticus> It is diffuclt... I am a bit of an idealist.
2008-01-08 07:04 < Aqwis> you're not going to get rid of pop culture from the world
2008-01-08 07:04 < Aqwis> Wikipedia is NPOV, not idealist POV
2008-01-08 07:04 < amidaniel|away> You're very unlikely to invoke changes in Wikipedia's style guidelines through discussion on IRC, however :)
2008-01-08 07:04 < TheWeasel> the combination of "for" and the end of the sentence doesn't shine a great light on you reaööy
2008-01-08 07:04 < Grammaticus> Although, the fact of the matter is...
2008-01-08 07:04 < Grammaticus> High culture is timeless.
2008-01-08 07:05 < TheWeasel> Eh, the world is not explicable without pop culture
2008-01-08 07:05 < Grammaticus> Popular culture will perish some 10 years post its advent.
2008-01-08 07:05 < TheWeasel> high culture is 150 year old pop culture.
2008-01-08 07:05 < Aqwis> some of the "high culture" used to be pop culture
2008-01-08 07:05 < Aqwis> shakespeare
2008-01-08 07:05 < Aqwis> etc
2008-01-08 07:05 < arcimboldo_> Johann Strass hasn't disappeared yet.
2008-01-08 07:05 < Grammaticus> No, that is not true.
2008-01-08 07:05 < arcimboldo_> Strauss
2008-01-08 07:06 < Grammaticus> Commedia dell'arte was popular culture.
2008-01-08 07:06 < Grammaticus> Shakespeare was considered high culture.
2008-01-08 07:06 < TheWeasel> Have you read Titus Andronicus?
2008-01-08 07:07 < Grammaticus> Indeed -- quite some time ago. What of it?
2008-01-08 07:07 < arcimboldo_> [[Ukiyo-e]] was kind of pop culture.
2008-01-08 07:07 < TheWeasel> are you going to tell me that was written for distinguished viewers?
2008-01-08 07:08 < amidaniel|away> Isn't high culture a subset of popular culture?
2008-01-08 07:08 < Grammaticus> It contains many high-brow allusions.
2008-01-08 07:08 < Grammaticus> Moreover, it has an artistic purpose.
2008-01-08 07:08 < Grammaticus> Popular culture has no artistic purpose.
2008-01-08 07:08 < Grammaticus> It has the purpose to entertain -- no matter how lowly the content thereof may be.
2008-01-08 07:08 < TheWeasel> it's simply a terrible play, for people to feel a thrill.
2008-01-08 07:09 < Grammaticus> Moreover, it is dealing with classical themes, mind you.
2008-01-08 07:09 < Grammaticus> Ancient warfare and so forth.
2008-01-08 07:09 < TheWeasel> Quit the fancy words. They sound forced, and we're not impressed.
2008-01-08 07:09 < arcimboldo_> Grammaticus, that's a bit of an extreme view, there's enough mixture of "art" in popular culture.
2008-01-08 07:10 < amidaniel|away> Dictionary comes in handy here ... High culture == culture of the ruling class. Pop culture == culture of the greater society.
2008-01-08 07:10 < TheWeasel> Grammaticus: So you might call many comics that deal with Greek themes high culture then?
2008-01-08 07:10 < arcimboldo_> Take French Cinema
2008-01-08 07:10 < Grammaticus> Well, Giuseppe, I am surprised.
2008-01-08 07:10 * TheWeasel finds the distinction wholly arbitrary
2008-01-08 07:11 < Grammaticus> TheWeasel, do these comics allude to Ovid?
2008-01-08 07:11 < TheWeasel> For instance to Homer and the Greek-language historians
2008-01-08 07:12 < amidaniel|away> I imagine Homer would fall in the pop culture category.
2008-01-08 07:12 * arcimboldo_ is arrogant enough to like that distinction.
2008-01-08 07:12 < TheWeasel> Heh, Homer is the founder of Western culture
2008-01-08 07:12 < TheWeasel> whether or not he was a real person
2008-01-08 07:12 < Grammaticus> Giuseppe, which distinction?
2008-01-08 07:12 < arcimboldo_> Although there's no black and white world of course ...
2008-01-08 07:12 < amidaniel|away> Unnotable drivel, that Homer.
2008-01-08 07:12 * amidaniel|away goes to delete [[Iliad]]
2008-01-08 07:13 < arcimboldo_> The one that the weasel finds wholly arbitrary
2008-01-08 07:13 < TheWeasel> Dylan has plenty of literature references, ancient to modern.
2008-01-08 07:13 < arcimboldo_> Zappa ...
2008-01-08 07:14 < TheWeasel> You might almost put Zappa into instant high culture, I guess
2008-01-08 07:14 < TheWeasel> I dunno
2008-01-08 07:14 < arcimboldo_> In another world, Techno might be what John Cage is.
2008-01-08 07:14 < Grammaticus> I suppose many simply have a poor sense of what is and is not artful.
2008-01-08 07:14 < Aqwis> or maybe you have, Grammaticus
2008-01-08 07:14 < Grammaticus> I would not deem Dylan or Zappa as such.
2008-01-08 07:14 < amidaniel|away> Oh good lord. Get off your high horse, please :)
2008-01-08 07:15 * Grammaticus alights.
2008-01-08 07:15 < arcimboldo_> Grammaticus, you're not living in a black-and-white world.
2008-01-08 07:15 < TheWeasel> You owning a thesaurus doesn't impress us, but I repeat myself.
2008-01-08 07:15 < arcimboldo_> We're living mostly in the grey space ...
2008-01-08 07:15 < TheWeasel> Grammaticus: We never got a workable distinction from you
2008-01-08 07:16 < Grammaticus> TheWeasel, please... I respect your argument thoroughly, but do not accuse me of leafing through a thesaurus.
2008-01-08 07:16 < TheWeasel> your English is stodgy.
2008-01-08 07:16 < Grammaticus> A workable distinction in regard to..?
2008-01-08 07:17 < TheWeasel> distinction between pop culture and high culture
2008-01-08 07:17 < arcimboldo_> <- TOEIC 990 :-)))
2008-01-08 07:18 < Grammaticus> High culture boasts artistic merit, the ability to elate the soul, classical allusions -- a challenge for the mind -- and simply, as Longinus would say, 'Sublime'
2008-01-08 07:19 < TheWeasel> Who to judge?
2008-01-08 07:19 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: Non-subjective criteria would be nice :)
2008-01-08 07:19 < Grammaticus> Popular culture's purpose is to entertain... children and dense adults alike.
2008-01-08 07:19 < amidaniel|away> Or shall we consult you everytime we wish to add an article?
2008-01-08 07:19 < arcimboldo_> Grammaticus, so how would you classify John Cage - he's the personified denial of "elating the soul"
2008-01-08 07:19 < TheWeasel> And, P.S., I don't agree that Baroque-type allusions are ends in themselves
2008-01-08 07:19 < arcimboldo_> or of making any point ...
2008-01-08 07:20 < Grammaticus> I would say that John Cage is, perhaps, high culture -- but he is a man testing the boundaries of art -- nothing more.
2008-01-08 07:20 < Grammaticus> He is on the outskirts of the kingdom.
2008-01-08 07:20 < Grammaticus> Granted he is searching for the boundaries thereof.
2008-01-08 07:20 < Grammaticus> Which is, essentially, nothingness.
2008-01-08 07:20 < ancjr> i never like playing johnny cage in mk2
2008-01-08 07:20 < TheWeasel> He doesn't make many classical allusions though.
2008-01-08 07:21 < TheWeasel> Culture doesn't need to be riddle-riddled.
2008-01-08 07:21 < arcimboldo_> He basically does nothing of the things on the list.
2008-01-08 07:21 < Grammaticus> Well, music is a different domain. Moreover, as I said -- nothing dwells outside of the kingdom, not even classical reference.
2008-01-08 07:21 < TheWeasel> what it has to do is to help complete the view of the world.
2008-01-08 07:22 < Grammaticus> He is wallowing in nothingness -- he is attempt to be novel for the sake of being novel.
2008-01-08 07:22 < Grammaticus> *attempting
2008-01-08 07:22 < TheWeasel> It apparently has no effect on you
2008-01-08 07:22 < TheWeasel> others have grasped different meanings.
2008-01-08 07:22 < TheWeasel> You know *one* piece of his.
2008-01-08 07:23 < Grammaticus> Modern art is perplexing to many.
2008-01-08 07:23 < TheWeasel> and I'm not sure you see the depth of the concept.
2008-01-08 07:23 < Grammaticus> No, in fact I have a vast collection of his work.
2008-01-08 07:23 < Grammaticus> I am cognizant of the prepared piano and so forth.
2008-01-08 07:24 < Grammaticus> Modern art is not understood by many -- the purpose thereof.
2008-01-08 07:24 < TheWeasel> no
2008-01-08 07:24 < Grammaticus> I am not fond of it, personally.
2008-01-08 07:24 < TheWeasel> modern art doesn't think enigma is an end in itself.
2008-01-08 07:24 < TheWeasel> quite to the contrary
2008-01-08 07:25 < Grammaticus> TheWeasel, I do not think it to be that profound.
2008-01-08 07:25 < TheWeasel> and if you've got some of his recordings, those comments are doubly puzzling to me.
2008-01-08 07:25 < TheWeasel> how profound?
2008-01-08 07:25 < Grammaticus> I believe that is simply people how people in an industrial world respond via artistic media.
2008-01-08 07:26 < Grammaticus> *-people
2008-01-08 07:26 < Grammaticus> In a fast-pcaed world that is constantly developing.
2008-01-08 07:26 < Grammaticus> An age when art is forgotten and science is lauded.
2008-01-08 07:26 < TheWeasel> I guess everyone is anchored in their time
2008-01-08 07:26 < TheWeasel> I agree that science has become too overwhelming
2008-01-08 07:27 < TheWeasel> not just opposed to art, all the liberal arts really, languages, social sciences, everything without numbers
2008-01-08 07:27 < Grammaticus> Indeed. And during their time they would have garnered no attention if they were not novel -- since everyone was enthralled by science.
2008-01-08 07:28 < TheWeasel> because people who do science then have no moral footing to do it on
2008-01-08 07:28 < TheWeasel> People who do what others have done before are no innovators.
2008-01-08 07:28 < Drunken_Idiot> Hi
2008-01-08 07:29 < Drunken_Idiot> TheWeasel: You look great.
2008-01-08 07:29 < Aqwis> hi.
2008-01-08 07:29 < Grammaticus> Although the greatest artists were, to some degree, imitators.
2008-01-08 07:30 < Grammaticus> Nevertheless... to end my rigmarole.
2008-01-08 07:30 < TheWeasel> maybe popular culture is that which is merely repeating previous forms?
2008-01-08 07:30 < Grammaticus> I have seemingly lost my proposal.
2008-01-08 07:30 < Drunken_Idiot> Aqwis: How are you ?
2008-01-08 07:30 < Aqwis> i'm fine
2008-01-08 07:30 < Aqwis> you?
2008-01-08 07:30 < DannyLilithborne> everything was pop culture once ^_^
2008-01-08 07:30 < DannyLilithborne> even Jesus
2008-01-08 07:30 < Drunken_Idiot> Aqwis: Bad really bad. My knee worse.
2008-01-08 07:30 < TheWeasel> Grammaticus: You haven't given a workable distinction
2008-01-08 07:30 < Grammaticus> Haha.
2008-01-08 07:30 < Aqwis> :(
2008-01-08 07:30 < TheWeasel> because they all depend on your judgment.
2008-01-08 07:31 < Grammaticus> DannyLilithborne, that is not true.
2008-01-08 07:31 < TheWeasel> and aren't really airtight
2008-01-08 07:31 < Grammaticus> The popular culture did not survive.
2008-01-08 07:31 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: mera jan.
2008-01-08 07:31 < DannyLilithborne> so Mozart was never popular? ^_^
2008-01-08 07:31 < amidaniel|away> Grammaticus: Then you have some definition of pop culture the rest of us don't have
2008-01-08 07:32 < Grammaticus> Yes, I understand -- it was being idealistic.
2008-01-08 07:32 < Drunken_Idiot> DannyLilithborne: Mozart was popular.
2008-01-08 07:32 < amidaniel|away> Referring again to Homer, etc.
2008-01-08 07:32 < TheWeasel> Popular culture could be what is repetitive though
2008-01-08 07:32 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: mera jan?
2008-01-08 07:32 < Grammaticus> Danny, during Mozart's time there were two different realms of theatre.
2008-01-08 07:32 < Drunken_Idiot> DannyLilithborne: I am a composer , pianist and conductor whats you're question ?
2008-01-08 07:32 < Grammaticus> The low theatre, and the high theatre.
2008-01-08 07:32 < TheWeasel> but that would be too narrow
2008-01-08 07:32 < Grammaticus> The low did not survive.
2008-01-08 07:32 < TheWeasel> Titus bloody Andronicus.
2008-01-08 07:32 < DannyLilithborne> Didn't some people consider Mozart low though?
2008-01-08 07:32 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: what's mera jan?
2008-01-08 07:33 < TheWeasel> and the even lower theater survives on fun fairs
2008-01-08 07:33 < TheWeasel> pantomime etc.
2008-01-08 07:33 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: My friend.
2008-01-08 07:33 < TheWeasel> (which can be high art, mind you)
2008-01-08 07:33 < Grammaticus> Yes, although the practitioners are forgotten.
2008-01-08 07:33 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: ah, in which language?
2008-01-08 07:33 < Grammaticus> Hence my earlier example of Commedia dell'arte.
2008-01-08 07:34 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: Urdu.
2008-01-08 07:34 < TheWeasel> there wasn't much writing around in those strata
2008-01-08 07:34 < TheWeasel> and sometimes not even further up
2008-01-08 07:34 < Grammaticus> TheWeasel, keep in mind...
2008-01-08 07:34 < DannyLilithborne> hindsight is 20/20
2008-01-08 07:34 < Grammaticus> Many people were not literate during that time.
2008-01-08 07:34 < Drunken_Idiot> Lets praticse a bit of my french in wikipedia-fr
2008-01-08 07:34 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: hmm...
2008-01-08 07:34 < Grammaticus> And there was lower theatre than Shakespeare's.
2008-01-08 07:35 < TheWeasel> I do keep that in mind
2008-01-08 07:35 < TheWeasel> and I think it largely excuses them.
2008-01-08 07:35 < TheWeasel> and their non-survival
2008-01-08 07:35 < TheWeasel> it
2008-01-08 07:35 < TheWeasel> is also a question of money
2008-01-08 07:35 < Grammaticus> Marlowe was considered high culture as well.
2008-01-08 07:36 < TheWeasel> so does high culture change?
2008-01-08 07:36 < TheWeasel> and our concept of it
2008-01-08 07:36 < TheWeasel> because that's another case not to canonize things too much
2008-01-08 07:36 < Grammaticus> A question of money?
2008-01-08 07:36 < TheWeasel> yea, paper was expensive
2008-01-08 07:36 < TheWeasel> for travelling troupes
2008-01-08 07:37 < DannyLilithborne> lol @ weblink "how to use internet"
2008-01-08 07:37 < DannyLilithborne> I think if you're able to click on a weblink, you know how to use the Internet
2008-01-08 07:38 < Grammaticus> This all seems rather circumlocutionary.
2008-01-08 07:38 < Grammaticus> Nevertheless, my efforts to refine are in vain.
2008-01-08 07:38 < TheWeasel> second lesson is "How to keep pressing Shift when typing a row of exclamation marks"
2008-01-08 07:38 < DannyLilithborne> circumwhoozits?
2008-01-08 07:38 < TheWeasel> he likes big words in small contexts.
2008-01-08 07:39 < DannyLilithborne> Sorry. My ignorance is ignominious.
2008-01-08 07:39 < DannyLilithborne> Means I'm stupid.
2008-01-08 07:39 < Grammaticus> They are all in perfect context.
2008-01-08 07:39 < TheWeasel> I'm not saying they don't fit semantically.
2008-01-08 07:39 < Grammaticus> Yes, due to the poor connotation of 'ignominious', hahaha.
2008-01-08 07:39 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: My French is pathetic =))
2008-01-08 07:39 < amidaniel|away> DannyLilithborne: Lol
2008-01-08 07:40 * Drunken_Idiot hugs kila
2008-01-08 07:40 < kila> hi
2008-01-08 07:40 < DannyLilithborne> I wanted to go the full mile and say "ignomininiousnessness" but then I'd have to cover the room in spit.
2008-01-08 07:40 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: :D
2008-01-08 07:40 < DannyLilithborne> That Sir, is an inmitigated frabrication!
2008-01-08 07:40 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: You need to go out more.
2008-01-08 07:40 < Drunken_Idiot> kila: How are you?
2008-01-08 07:40 < Grammaticus> Drunken_Idiot, porquoi parlez-vous de français?
2008-01-08 07:40 < Grammaticus> *pourquoi
2008-01-08 07:41 < TheWeasel> -de
2008-01-08 07:41 < OvrLrd-Q> arg, effing firefox
2008-01-08 07:41 < Grammaticus> Non... la question est 'pourquoi' Drunken_Idiot parlez du langue.
2008-01-08 07:41 < amidaniel|away> While we're on the topic of bad pop culture ... this reminds me of the Friends episode where Joey tries to write a formal letter with big words, uses a thesaurus, and signs the letter "infant marsupial" or the like :D
2008-01-08 07:41 < DannyLilithborne> OvrLrd-Q: you're my new best friend
2008-01-08 07:41 < Drunken_Idiot> Grammaticus: I am 20% français
2008-01-08 07:41 < TheWeasel> still, no de
2008-01-08 07:41 < Grammaticus> Ah, je vois.
2008-01-08 07:41 < DannyLilithborne> heh
2008-01-08 07:41 < kila> Drunken_Idiot: pretty well
2008-01-08 07:42 < DannyLilithborne> Elaine's random Latin phrase
2008-01-08 07:42 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: it's 7:40am
2008-01-08 07:42 < OvrLrd-Q> DannyLilithborne: it crashed, and now it's using some random ass font for important things like oh say, edit boxes
2008-01-08 07:42 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: where do I go at 7:40am? lol
2008-01-08 07:42 < DannyLilithborne> what the heck was it
2008-01-08 07:42 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: 17:42 pm
2008-01-08 07:42 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: Walk in the park with you're honey bun :D
2008-01-08 07:42 < DannyLilithborne> "Casus belli"
2008-01-08 07:42 < Viele-baeren> hi
2008-01-08 07:42 < Grammaticus> Drunken_Idiot, American, I presume?
2008-01-08 07:42 < Freya> Drunken_Idiot: don't have one :P
2008-01-08 07:43 < Grammaticus> I know the feeling of mongrelization.
2008-01-08 07:43 * TheWeasel sees a fox cross his yard
2008-01-08 07:43 < DannyLilithborne> No entiendo francés...
2008-01-08 07:43 < Drunken_Idiot> Freya: High 5 amigo.
2008-01-08 07:44 < EdBoy> hey guys
2008-01-08 07:44 < EdBoy> I turn 14 in 12 minutes
2008-01-08 07:44 < Aqwis> heh
2008-01-08 07:44 < Drunken_Idiot> EdBoy: Congrats happy birthday
2008-01-08 07:44 < EdBoy> thank you
2008-01-08 07:44 < EdBoy> are you drunk
2008-01-08 07:44 < DannyLilithborne> I turned 14 fifteen years ago ._.
2008-01-08 07:45 < Grammaticus> Hahahaha.
2008-01-08 07:45 * DannyLilithborne gets a cane
2008-01-08 07:45 < EdBoy> hehe
2008-01-08 07:45 * amidaniel|away beats DannyLilithborne with it
2008-01-08 07:45 < Drunken_Idiot> EdBoy: At 14 I had my first wine.
2008-01-08 07:45 < DannyLilithborne> the thing that annoys me about Firefox the most is it will randomly scroll down pages
2008-01-08 07:45 < Grammaticus> Which was...?
2008-01-08 07:45 < EdBoy> I had my first like three years ago
2008-01-08 07:46 < EdBoy> DannyLilithborne: it doesn't do that here...
2008-01-08 07:46 < DannyLilithborne> and it's not my scrolly mouse button cuz i'm on a laptop now and it still does that
2008-01-08 07:46 < Drunken_Idiot> EdBoy: Well in France is age 14 for wine
2008-01-08 07:46 < EdBoy> yeah
2008-01-08 07:46 < EdBoy> anywhos, I'm gonna go to school now
2008-01-08 07:46 < EdBoy> bye bye
2008-01-08 07:46 * TheWeasel 's hands are coldish
2008-01-08 07:46 < DannyLilithborne> school school school
2008-01-08 07:46 < amidaniel|away> Drunken_Idiot: Is it still? Thought it was upto 16 now
2008-01-08 07:46 < DannyLilithborne> schoooool
2008-01-08 07:46 < arcimboldo_> In Japan 19 I believe.
2008-01-08 07:46 * EdBoy is away: skewl
2008-01-08 07:47 < Drunken_Idiot> amidaniel|away: 14 :P
2008-01-08 07:47 < DannyLilithborne> fill our brains with lots of facts our first day of school
2008-01-08 07:47 < Drunken_Idiot> amidaniel|away: Depends on the familia
2008-01-08 07:47 < amidaniel|away> Drunken_Idiot: k :)
2008-01-08 07:48 < DannyLilithborne> London, New York, Paris, Munich
2008-01-08 07:49 < amidaniel|away> Alrighty .. I'm off to bed. G'night everyone
2008-01-08 07:49 < brown_cat> DannyLilithborne: those the cities you hate?
2008-01-08 07:49 < DannyLilithborne> well...
2008-01-08 07:49 < DannyLilithborne> I've never been to any of them.
2008-01-08 07:49 < DannyLilithborne> But I hear they all talk about pop muzik.
2008-01-08 07:49 < Grammaticus> Well, I must be off.
2008-01-08 07:50 < DannyLilithborne> Later ^_^
2008-01-08 07:50 < Grammaticus> I did not mean to stir up anger, although... the ambition began upon reading this, in the Catullus article : Well, I did not mean to anger anyone... I was simply distasted
2008-01-08 07:50 < Grammaticus> In the popular webcomic Achewood, Catullus is referred to in the March 8th, 2002 comic ("Hell Yes I'm telling you about some Latin shit!") as the "first poet who ever got his Bone on".
2008-01-08 07:50 * brown_cat thinks there are a suspiciously high amount of muslems living next to the one mile zone in london
2008-01-08 07:50 < DannyLilithborne> ...well.
2008-01-08 07:50 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-01-08 07:50 < DannyLilithborne> I can see how that stirred you up ^_^
2008-01-08 07:50 < DannyLilithborne> I would have edited it and removed "popular"
2008-01-08 07:50 < arcimboldo_> Let's create a Wittgenstein comic series.
2008-01-08 07:51 < TheWeasel> Wikipedia is not in the business of deference.
2008-01-08 07:51 < Grammaticus> I did remove it.
2008-01-08 07:51 < DannyLilithborne> :D
2008-01-08 07:51 < brown_cat> :D
2008-01-08 07:51 < brown_cat> DannyLilithborne: got milk?
2008-01-08 07:51 < DannyLilithborne> When the first ten sentences of a Wikipedia article are "up and coming"
2008-01-08 07:51 < NotACow> TheWeasel: wikipedia is not i nthe business of ethical conduct, period.
2008-01-08 07:51 < DannyLilithborne> chances are 99.9% it's bullshit
2008-01-08 07:51 < DannyLilithborne> with a .1% margin of error
2008-01-08 07:51 < brown_cat> xxD
2008-01-08 07:51 < TheWeasel> NotACow: Deference is intellectually and scientifically unethical.
2008-01-08 07:52 < Drunken_Idiot> brown_cat: You're alive?
2008-01-08 07:52 < TheWeasel> Heh, Obama, dude, it's okay, you can keep the change
2008-01-08 07:52 < Drunken_Idiot> White_Cat: Hey ma
2008-01-08 07:52 < Drunken_Idiot> n
2008-01-08 07:53 < arcimboldo_> Go up and vote, New Hampshire people!
2008-01-08 07:53 < TheWeasel> Yea, hold your nose and vote Hillary
2008-01-08 07:53 < Aqwis> vote Ron Paul
2008-01-08 07:54 < Aqwis> cough
2008-01-08 07:54 < arcimboldo_> Is Kucinich still on the ballot?
2008-01-08 07:54 < TheWeasel> 'Cause Obama's shtick will become transparent and he'll be easy to beat
2008-01-08 07:54 < DannyLilithborne> become?
2008-01-08 07:54 < TheWeasel> Ron Paul '08 - Sanity Is Overrated
2008-01-08 07:54 * Drunken_Idiot leaves
2008-01-08 07:55 < Aqwis> i don't think more than two of the major candidates have resigned so far, arcimboldo_
2008-01-08 07:55 < TheWeasel> Dodd, Biden
2008-01-08 07:55 < arcimboldo_> Is Kucinich a major candidate?
2008-01-08 07:55 < TheWeasel> no
2008-01-08 07:55 < TheWeasel> :-D
2008-01-08 07:56 < TheWeasel> There are only few "major candidates"
2008-01-08 07:56 < Aqwis> no, but
2008-01-08 07:56 < TheWeasel> three Democrats and three, possibly four Republicans
2008-01-08 07:56 < Aqwis> at least he's in the news
2008-01-08 07:56 < Aqwis> once in a while
2008-01-08 07:56 < TheWeasel> mostly he's asked for the UFO
2008-01-08 07:56 < TheWeasel> they don't take him seriously politically
2008-01-08 07:56 < TheWeasel> they make fun of him
2008-01-08 07:57 < Aqwis> how many candidates are there in each party in total?
2008-01-08 07:57 < arcimboldo_> Ohio gozaimasu
2008-01-08 07:57 < TheWeasel> I think it'll be better to drink Nepalese spice tea with him than have him as president
2008-01-08 07:57 < arcimboldo_> Er, there are those kind of local fifty-votes candidates.
2008-01-08 07:57 < Aqwis> well, exactly
2008-01-08 07:58 < arcimboldo_> Rufus Winterbottom and the like.
2008-01-08 07:58 < Aqwis> compared to them, Kuci is a "major candidate" ;)
2008-01-08 07:58 < TheWeasel> Five Democrats, seven Republicans I think
2008-01-08 07:58 < Aqwis> oh
2008-01-08 07:58 < Aqwis> well, forget it then
2008-01-08 07:58 < arcimboldo_> [[Dennis Kucinich presidential campaign, 2008]]
2008-01-08 07:59 < Aqwis> i assumed there were like 40 in each party, but only a few of them being covered by the media
2008-01-08 08:00 < TheWeasel> There are people who run independently but are affiliated with a party
2008-01-08 08:00 < TheWeasel> you can write them in I think
2008-01-08 08:00 < arcimboldo_> [[United States Republican presidential candidates, 2008]]
2008-01-08 08:00 < TheWeasel> I didn't count them, but they're not 40
2008-01-08 08:01 < arcimboldo_> [[United States Democratic presidential candidates, 2008]]
2008-01-08 08:01 < arcimboldo_> But those are only the federal candidates.
2008-01-08 08:02 < TheWeasel> if you only run in one state, you can't get enough delegates, of course
2008-01-08 08:02 < TheWeasel> so you have to run in at least half the country
2008-01-08 08:02 < TheWeasel> Obama's slogan is "change we can believe in"
2008-01-08 08:03 < DannyLilithborne> :\
2008-01-08 08:03 < TheWeasel> it has the inevitable "change", it has the ostentatiously bipartisan "we" and it has the nicely warm and fuzzy "believe"
2008-01-08 08:03 < DannyLilithborne> it's gonna suck if he gets elected and forgets what we were supposed to change into
2008-01-08 08:03 < arcimboldo_> Omd, there are never-ending ramifications. We must have a million articles about this election.
2008-01-08 08:04 < TheWeasel> comprehensive "neutral" coverage!
2008-01-08 08:04 < DannyLilithborne> I had in mind something form-fitting but not too sleazy
2008-01-08 08:04 < TheWeasel> (because of course people own some of the more obscure articles)
2008-01-08 08:04 < TheWeasel> Change we can believe in? That's dimes with "In God We Trust" on them.
2008-01-08 08:06 * TheWeasel dislikes Obama's political style greatly
2008-01-08 08:06 < TheWeasel> he has to know it's unrealistic and unhelpful.
2008-01-08 08:06 < TheWeasel> and it would be nice if he took some goddamn positions of his own, as opposed to just his voting record
2008-01-08 08:07 < Triona> Politicians are as evasive as possible about their positions.
2008-01-08 08:07 < TheWeasel> Obama has made an art form of it.
2008-01-08 08:07 < TheWeasel> Doesn't mean he flip-flops, he just doesn't like to talk about anything
2008-01-08 08:07 < TheWeasel> except "if we all work together, there are no bounds to our dreams" or something
2008-01-08 08:08 < Triona> At this point, I'm not happy with any of them.
2008-01-08 08:09 * TheWeasel has supported Edwards all along
2008-01-08 08:09 < TheWeasel> Biden if I that had been realistic, but it hasn't
2008-01-08 08:09 < arcimboldo_> The Republican race looks like an erratic lottery at the moment.
2008-01-08 08:10 < arcimboldo_> I wonder how it will go.
2008-01-08 08:10 < Triona> Edwards I'd probably vote for - out of the candidates that are viable, I'd say he has the best chance of keeping a Bush clone out of office.
2008-01-08 08:10 < TheWeasel> Agreed
2008-01-08 08:10 < arcimboldo_> I didn't like him four years ago when he seems to behave like every grandmother's dream darling.
2008-01-08 08:11 < TheWeasel> I knew that Obama had the whole thing in the bag though when he won Iowa.
2008-01-08 08:11 < arcimboldo_> ed
2008-01-08 08:11 < Triona> By the time we have primaries in NC though, the race will be all but decided.