freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-08 00:13 < LuciferTiger> quanticle: somewhere in the midwest?
2008-01-08 00:13 < TheWeasel> they were bought by Gazprom of all options.
2008-01-08 00:13 < TheWeasel> LuciferTiger: South Africa
2008-01-08 00:13 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Huh? How does that work?
2008-01-08 00:13 < TheWeasel> Gazprom is nominally a private enterprise, and they're now their biggest shareholder.
2008-01-08 00:14 < LuciferTiger> what was that in reference to TheWeasel ?
2008-01-08 00:14 < quanticle> TheWeasel: You'd think they'd have bought Spartak Moscow or something...
2008-01-08 00:14 < TheWeasel> The 2010 World Cup
2008-01-08 00:14 < TheWeasel> hah that too anyway :-(
2008-01-08 00:14 < TheWeasel> :-)
2008-01-08 00:14 < LuciferTiger> no no no i was asking where quanticle was
2008-01-08 00:14 < TheWeasel> the Russian clubs have been far more successful than in the past
2008-01-08 00:14 < TheWeasel> oh alright, never mind then
2008-01-08 00:15 * quanticle is in the US which is a desert as far as soccer or "real football" is concerned
2008-01-08 00:15 < LuciferTiger> quanticle: where u at?
2008-01-08 00:15 < Leslie_S> i wonder how long before im banned forr life from ebay
2008-01-08 00:15 < Leslie_S> :o
2008-01-08 00:15 < LuciferTiger> dont even ask bout "football" in here
2008-01-08 00:15 < quanticle> LuciferTiger: Where you at?
2008-01-08 00:15 < LuciferTiger> DC
2008-01-08 00:15 * quanticle is in the frozen wasteland of Minnesota
2008-01-08 00:16 < TheWeasel> there've been a few mighty fine US players
2008-01-08 00:16 < quanticle> Its like Siberia, but with Norwegians
2008-01-08 00:16 < LuciferTiger> theres indians in minnesota??
2008-01-08 00:16 < TheWeasel> but their FIFA rating has always been inflated
2008-01-08 00:16 < quanticle> LuciferTiger: Yeah. Quite a lot actually. There's lots of computer companies here...
2008-01-08 00:16 < LuciferTiger> ahh
2008-01-08 00:16 < quanticle> TheWeasel: The US's FIFA rating in general has been overrated
2008-01-08 00:16 < TheWeasel> yup
2008-01-08 00:17 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Before the last World Cup, the US was somewhere around 4th or something like that
2008-01-08 00:17 < TheWeasel> yea, thats because CONCACAF is pretty weak
2008-01-08 00:17 < TheWeasel> I guess they're quite steadily better than Mexico now, that seems to be enough
2008-01-08 00:17 < LuciferTiger> yeah it was ranked 4th
2008-01-08 00:17 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Yeah. The S. Americans have a separate league, otherwise we'd get stomped right and left
2008-01-08 00:18 < Ceiling_Cat> jesus christ, no wonder amtrack is going broke
2008-01-08 00:18 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Yeah. I'm still rather surprised that we manage to be better than Mexico on a consistent basis
2008-01-08 00:18 * Ceiling_Cat wants to take the train to the NYC meetup on Sunday
2008-01-08 00:18 < TheWeasel> yea, that separation is alright though
2008-01-08 00:18 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Huh? What profligacy this time?
2008-01-08 00:18 < Ceiling_Cat> wilmington delaware to NYC and back again, $135
2008-01-08 00:19 < Ceiling_Cat> that is *ridiculous*
2008-01-08 00:19 < Ceiling_Cat> I can fly to florida and back for less than that
2008-01-08 00:19 < Ceiling_Cat> (I just did this past weekend, in fact)
2008-01-08 00:19 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Heh. Its a conspiracy, I tell 'ya
2008-01-08 00:19 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: To kill rail travel in the US
2008-01-08 00:19 < TheWeasel> that's a problem of airtravel rather than a problem of Amtrak, but 135 sounds like quite a bit
2008-01-08 00:20 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: More seriously though, rail tickets are pretty expensive anywhere. Have you looked at Chunnel fares lately?
2008-01-08 00:20 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Or Shinkansen fares?
2008-01-08 00:20 < Ceiling_Cat> TheWeasel - no, the air travel is reasonable -- it's the rail that's ridiculously overpriced
2008-01-08 00:20 < Ceiling_Cat> quanticle - you can't compare rail costs through the chunnel
2008-01-08 00:20 < TheWeasel> air travel is often too cheap.
2008-01-08 00:20 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: I was just going to say that Shinkansen and TGV are completely different compared to Amtrack
2008-01-08 00:21 < TheWeasel> and railways not made attractive or cut in an extreme fashion
2008-01-08 00:21 < LuciferTiger> its Amtrak
2008-01-08 00:21 < Ceiling_Cat> quanticle - there's a reason the chunnel is expensive to go through. It's because it was expensive to build, and they have to recover the cost
2008-01-08 00:21 < Ceiling_Cat> and because it's (literally) the only land route to britian
2008-01-08 00:21 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Heh yeah. Monopolies are expensive no matter where you go.
2008-01-08 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> there is no good reason why amtrack should cost that much
2008-01-08 00:22 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Speaking of monopolies, JR is one too, isn't it?
2008-01-08 00:22 < Lycurgus_> it's Britain
2008-01-08 00:22 < TheWeasel> depends on whether there's money left to subsidies them
2008-01-08 00:22 < Schroeder> Do you remember the first time we met, living together in colossal times?
2008-01-08 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> no wonder the fuckers are bankrupt
2008-01-08 00:22 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Well, Amtrak is the only passenger rail operator in the US
2008-01-08 00:22 < Ceiling_Cat> and dependant on government subsidy
2008-01-08 00:22 < TheWeasel> *subsidise
2008-01-08 00:22 < LuciferTiger> *subsidies
2008-01-08 00:22 < TheWeasel> no
2008-01-08 00:22 < TheWeasel> subsidise
2008-01-08 00:22 < TheWeasel> (Br.)
2008-01-08 00:23 < Lycurgus_> sine dies
2008-01-08 00:23 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Subsidize?
2008-01-08 00:23 < TheWeasel> not to be confused with "subsides"
2008-01-08 00:23 < TheWeasel> British spelling
2008-01-08 00:23 < Rinn> Cave Story music and Smarties!
2008-01-08 00:24 < quanticle> TheWeasel: The British spelling is subsidise, as in, "to subsidise". The American spelling is "subsidize"...
2008-01-08 00:24 < TheWeasel> I used the British spelling
2008-01-08 00:24 < TheWeasel> :-)
2008-01-08 00:24 < TheWeasel> Deal?
2008-01-08 00:24 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Oh. I'm slow today
2008-01-08 00:24 < Schroeder> yes, the verb is "subsidize/subsidise"
2008-01-08 00:24 < TheWeasel> tis fine
2008-01-08 00:24 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Also slightly dyslexic, it seems
2008-01-08 00:24 < Schroeder> the noun is "subsidy"
2008-01-08 00:24 < Schroeder> and the plural of the noun is "subsidies"
2008-01-08 00:25 < quanticle> Which is not to be confused with subsides
2008-01-08 00:25 < quanticle> Hence the dyslexia
2008-01-08 00:25 < Ceiling_Cat> http://www.yelp.com/biz/amtrak-philadelphia
2008-01-08 00:25 < Ceiling_Cat> even the guy who gave amtrack 4 stars calls them "outrageously-overpriced"
2008-01-08 00:26 < LuciferTiger> then fly damn it.
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Roll down the Escalade windows and breathe breathe in - Sunoco towers, eternal gas flames along I95 / I76 (the freedom highway), most of the Schuylkill oilshed in nether SE - is this a proper punishment for exile out of Eden?
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> How else can we affect change if not enduring sacrifice, minor and almost less than a spec - yet vital and founding-father decent
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> Make a 65-length list on the foibles of our nation's rails - Chenyhunt targets each one - it's clear how you feel about $5 rubber pretzels, loud conductors, insufferable delays (a train to Miami - o por favor), vending machines, sneezes in queues, faux security, the Lyon-Paris vs New York-DC sadness, etc
2008-01-08 00:27 * Schroeder prefers to drive
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> Simplicity sake is all we have: each $ on your next trip to Harrisburg, or Fun City or Providence saves lives - saves qualities of lives
2008-01-08 00:27 * Schroeder loves driving
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> As we eat and overeat and indulge isnt it worth a little extra this one time?
2008-01-08 00:27 < TheWeasel> They're trying for 25 years to not die.
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Its the next review down
2008-01-08 00:27 < TheWeasel> it's hard enough
2008-01-08 00:27 * quanticle loves driving too.
2008-01-08 00:27 * quanticle thinks he's one of a dying breed sometimes
2008-01-08 00:27 < quanticle> At work, all I hear about is how much driving sucks and how the commute is a drag
2008-01-08 00:27 < TheWeasel> I like driving but trains are awesome.
2008-01-08 00:28 < quanticle> I rather like driving though
2008-01-08 00:28 < Rinn> I hear sirens going off outside!
2008-01-08 00:28 < Schroeder> ehh, regular commutes are boring
2008-01-08 00:28 < Schroeder> but long drives are great fun
2008-01-08 00:28 < quanticle> TheWeasel: I like trains too. They are the only mode of conveyance that I can fall asleep comfortably on
2008-01-08 00:28 < quanticle> Schroeder: ROAD TRIP!
2008-01-08 00:28 * Cyrius has never ridden on a real train
2008-01-08 00:28 < Schroeder> every year, I pick a major US highway and drive its entire length
2008-01-08 00:28 < TheWeasel> I can sleep in every mode of transportation (except of course if I drive myself)
2008-01-08 00:28 < quanticle> Schroeder: Damn. I wish I had that much free time and gas money
2008-01-08 00:29 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Lucky dog
2008-01-08 00:29 < Schroeder> I barely do
2008-01-08 00:29 < Ceiling_Cat> quanticle - I drive 80-90 miles a day to my job and back
2008-01-08 00:29 < Ceiling_Cat> any day I can avoid driving is a win
2008-01-08 00:29 < Schroeder> between school in the winter and fall and marching band rehearsals all summer (I'm a high school marching band instructor)
2008-01-08 00:29 < quanticle> TheWeasel: I can only sleep on trains and (sometimes) aircraft
2008-01-08 00:29 < Schroeder> I have two weeks free where I don't have to do anything
2008-01-08 00:29 < Schroeder> so I take that time off work
2008-01-08 00:29 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: that's ridiculous, move.
2008-01-08 00:29 < Schroeder> and my girlfriend and I go driving
2008-01-08 00:29 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Sleeping on cars and buses doens't work for me
2008-01-08 00:30 < Ceiling_Cat> cyrius - it was only an internship, and it wasn't suppose to last this long
2008-01-08 00:30 < cimon> I wonder if threre are any documented cases of copycats on wikipedia... That is people who aren't sockpuppets but are pretending to be sockpuppets of a known puppeteer---
2008-01-08 00:30 < quanticle> Schroeder: That's awesome
2008-01-08 00:30 < Ceiling_Cat> it ends in 2 weeks ;)
2008-01-08 00:30 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: oh, okay
2008-01-08 00:30 < Lycurgus_> was that fare round trip? Just checked amtrak from here to NYC and it's about 500 miles one way and $73 each way,
2008-01-08 00:30 < quanticle> cimon: Meatpuppets?
2008-01-08 00:30 < MUNCHLAX> Schroeder, do us 62
2008-01-08 00:30 < TheWeasel> I've slept on the seat next to the driver in Turkey, bumping against the glass pane
2008-01-08 00:30 < Cyrius> I just get annoyed at people with ridiculous commutes
2008-01-08 00:30 < cimon> quanticle, copypuppets
2008-01-08 00:30 < TheWeasel> until it seemed too dangerous even to him
2008-01-08 00:30 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - well I've been doing it for a year next week
2008-01-08 00:31 < Ceiling_Cat> a hour commute (one way) is painful
2008-01-08 00:31 < Cyrius> that's still fairly ridiculous
2008-01-08 00:31 < cimon> quanticle, meatpuppets aren't trying to pretend, they are doing useful stuff for the puppeteer.
2008-01-08 00:31 < Mike_H> Greyhound buses suck
2008-01-08 00:31 < Mike_H> I will never ride another one again
2008-01-08 00:31 < quanticle> Mike_H: I've never been on one
2008-01-08 00:31 < quanticle> Mike_H: What was the trip?
2008-01-08 00:31 < Mike_H> well, don't go on one
2008-01-08 00:31 < Schroeder> Mike_H: last time I rode Greyhound, I got in a fight because someone opened up one of the overhead storage bins and it slammed up against my eye
2008-01-08 00:31 < cimon> quanticle, as far as I know meatpuppets would be trying not to be proven as such.
2008-01-08 00:32 < Rinn> I've only ridden in a bus once in my life.
2008-01-08 00:32 < Rinn> It was a school field trip.
2008-01-08 00:32 < cimon> even though I don't know there is an actual policy against meatpuppetry...
2008-01-08 00:32 < Mike_H> quanticle: Pensacola to Tampa
2008-01-08 00:33 < Lycurgus_> yeah, in the US a stigma attaches to public transit everywhere except a few large cities, primarily NYC
2008-01-08 00:33 < Leslie_S> meatpuppetry is as obvious as sockpuppetry
2008-01-08 00:33 < Leslie_S> of course, most people on wikipedia are clueless
2008-01-08 00:33 < Mike_H> right, especially here in Florida it's poor people
2008-01-08 00:33 < Mike_H> usually blacks or Hispanics
2008-01-08 00:33 < Mike_H> almost never white people, and if they are, they're drug addicts so they don't matter
2008-01-08 00:34 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: Not always. For example, if you want to go to downtown Minneapolis, most people will adivse you to take the bus, since parking is so expensive
2008-01-08 00:34 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: There are some bus routes though, that are definitely considered "ghetto", but thats an invariant across all public transit systems
2008-01-08 00:35 < Mike_H> quanticle: Seriously, in Florida the buses are just not ridden by white people who aren't trailer trash
2008-01-08 00:35 < Lycurgus_> Minneapolis is hardly representative, it's one of the most "liberal" cities in the country. Not like SF or NYC but maybe more so than Chicago (where I was born)
2008-01-08 00:35 < quanticle> Mike_H: That's because Florida is a warm climate. I've noticed that, as the general climate gets warmer, the stigma attached to public transit grows
2008-01-08 00:36 < Mike_H> quanticle: No, it's more that Florida is a state that is built around a car, and most white people have one.
2008-01-08 00:36 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: Odd, considering that Chicago has a fairly nice public transit system.
2008-01-08 00:36 < quanticle> Mike_H: Right. Most cities in warm climes are built around the automobile
2008-01-08 00:36 < Lycurgus_> yes it does and a heavily used one too.
2008-01-08 00:36 < Mike_H> quanticle: I don't think that's true, dear
2008-01-08 00:36 < quanticle> Mike_H: Look at LA, or even Atlanta for that matter
2008-01-08 00:36 < Mike_H> Atlanta is built around the car and the MARTA
2008-01-08 00:37 < Mike_H> I don't think Atlanta prefers the car at all, and you would know it if you had to sit through ass-trocious traffic
2008-01-08 00:37 < MUNCHLAX> moving africans rapidly through atlanta?
2008-01-08 00:37 < Lycurgus_> but it's not like NYC and even in the city a car is preferrable. In NYC it's just a hassle.
2008-01-08 00:37 < quanticle> MUNCHLAX: WIN
2008-01-08 00:37 < quanticle> Mike_H: If traffic were any indication, Los Angeles would despise the car
2008-01-08 00:37 < Mike_H> quanticle: Pretty much everyone in the South calls the MARTA that.
2008-01-08 00:37 < Mike_H> It isn't new.
2008-01-08 00:37 < Lubaf> Ah. I feel like Rolling Stone's review of Shark Sandwitch.
2008-01-08 00:37 < quanticle> Mike_H: Hmm..
2008-01-08 00:38 < Mike_H> quanticle: Atlanta is comparable with Los Angeles in terms of traffic
2008-01-08 00:38 * quanticle revokes WIN from MUNCHLAX
2008-01-08 00:38 < Mike_H> The connector is 16 lanes and except for maybe 1:30 in the morning, it's always jammed.
2008-01-08 00:38 < LuciferTiger> oh yeah atlanta traffic is among the worst in the nation
2008-01-08 00:38 < quanticle> Mike_H: So I've heard
2008-01-08 00:39 < quanticle> Mike_H: Not that I have any reason to go there, but its certainly something to keep in mind
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> quanticle: It depends on certain parts of Atlanta, but I don't think it's very advantageous to have a car there
2008-01-08 00:39 < Paine> 16 lanes? O_o;
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> Buckhead, maybe
2008-01-08 00:39 < Paine> that's bordering on ridiculous
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> Midtown? Downtown? No.
2008-01-08 00:39 < Ceiling_Cat> By the way, I'm *so* pissed about the new AVP2 movie
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> Paine: It's eight one way and eight another
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> one of the largest expressways in the world
2008-01-08 00:39 < Ceiling_Cat> They amde the same mistake again!
2008-01-08 00:39 < Mike_H> but it's still not enough, really
2008-01-08 00:39 < Ceiling_Cat> First sentence of the NY times review: http://movies.nytimes.com/2007/12/26/movies/26alie.html
2008-01-08 00:39 < quanticle> Paine: Heh. LA has 20 lanes - 10 per side
2008-01-08 00:39 < Paine> Mike_H: I assumed that would be the layout..
2008-01-08 00:39 < Ceiling_Cat> The second “Aliens vs. Predator” film is, like its predecessor, one very dark movie. Not psychologically dark; dark dark, as in, not very generously lighted.
2008-01-08 00:40 < Paine> quanticle: that's so cool it's ridiculous
2008-01-08 00:40 < Paine> Ceiling_Cat: sounds shite.
2008-01-08 00:40 < quanticle> Paine: That freeway also holds the world record for traffic density
2008-01-08 00:40 < quanticle> Paine: i.e. # of cars per linear mile
2008-01-08 00:40 < Mike_H> quanticle: yes
2008-01-08 00:40 < LuciferTiger> Not psychologically dark; dark dark, as in, not very generously lighted.
2008-01-08 00:40 < LuciferTiger> lol
2008-01-08 00:40 * quanticle has driven that freeway
2008-01-08 00:40 < MUNCHLAX> of course that counts entrance and exit lanes
2008-01-08 00:41 < Ceiling_Cat> Paine - The first movie had two fatal flaws - it was PG-13 (they cut out all the good stuff), and you couldn't see shit on the screen because there was no light
2008-01-08 00:41 < Ceiling_Cat> the second film is more gory, but it's got even less light!
2008-01-08 00:41 < quanticle> MUNCHLAX: No not really. There aren'
2008-01-08 00:41 < quanticle> t
2008-01-08 00:41 < Mike_H> quanticle: I've heard they're thinking of expanding it to 20 lanes in some spots
2008-01-08 00:41 < MUNCHLAX> quanticle, which freeway has 20 then?
2008-01-08 00:41 < Mike_H> I don't know how they're going to do that, there are walls for barriers
2008-01-08 00:41 * Ceiling_Cat wonders if they are going to release a DVD with better lighting
2008-01-08 00:41 < Mike_H> In Atlanta, Georgia, the Downtown Connector or 75/85 (pronounced "seventy-five eighty-five") is the overlapped connector of Interstate 75 and Interstate 85 through the core of the city.
2008-01-08 00:42 < Mike_H> The Downtown Connector carries more than 323,000 vehicles per day at its busiest point ? between Martin Luther King Jr. Drive and Edgewood Avenue, while no portion of the Downtown Connector carries fewer than 236,000 vehicles per day.[3] The area around the connector and associated interchanges are considered one of the 10 most congested stretches of interstate in the U.S.[1].
2008-01-08 00:42 < Paine> they should make a 30 lane highway across the atlantic.
2008-01-08 00:42 < Paine> Just to waste as much fucking money as possible.
2008-01-08 00:42 < Mike_H> Today the highway carries as many as 16 lanes of traffic in some sections, placing it among the widest roads in the world.
2008-01-08 00:43 < Paine> ...possibly a 6 lane road between England and France, just to confuse people.
2008-01-08 00:43 < Mike_H> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Atlanta_75.85.jpg
2008-01-08 00:43 < Paine> Mike_H: what's the speed limit on that>
2008-01-08 00:44 < MUNCHLAX> I count 14 lanes there
2008-01-08 00:44 < Mike_H> Paine: It depends on certain areas
2008-01-08 00:44 < Ceiling_Cat> The rapid fire cuts and ridiculously low lighting means trying to follow the fights is pointless. It’s as if they were embarrassed by the practical, suit-based special effects and attempted to hide them as often as possible. From what can be made out, there’s no reason for it, and the Predator/Alien hybrid looks great.
2008-01-08 00:44 < MUNCHLAX> plus the exit/entrance in the back
2008-01-08 00:44 < Ceiling_Cat> Yep, that pretty much sums up the movie
2008-01-08 00:44 < Mike_H> lowest is 30
2008-01-08 00:44 < Mike_H> highest I believe is 55
2008-01-08 00:44 < Mike_H> 55 or 65
2008-01-08 00:44 < quanticle> MUNCHLAX: OMG, they're making I-5 27 lanes south of San Diego
2008-01-08 00:44 < Mike_H> MUNCHLAX: That isn't the widest part
2008-01-08 00:44 < MUNCHLAX> what' through the border?
2008-01-08 00:44 < MUNCHLAX> ,*
2008-01-08 00:44 < Paine> mexico?
2008-01-08 00:45 < quanticle> Just North of the border, it seems
2008-01-08 00:45 < MUNCHLAX> yeah, presumably south of the 805
2008-01-08 00:45 < quanticle> 13 lanes on one side, 14 on the other
2008-01-08 00:45 < Paine> ..why does one side get one less lane
2008-01-08 00:45 < Mike_H> It's actually 16 lines just past the vantage point in that photo
2008-01-08 00:45 < Mike_H> that is where it cuts down to 14
2008-01-08 00:45 < Mike_H> near Techwood
2008-01-08 00:46 < quanticle> Paine: No idea
2008-01-08 00:46 < Leslie_S> theres part of i94 near me thats 5 lanes
2008-01-08 00:46 < quanticle> Also, Arizona is thinking of making I-10 24 lanes as it passes through Phoenix
2008-01-08 00:46 < Leslie_S> its only for like a mile though.
2008-01-08 00:47 < Mike_H> I-275 in downtown Tampa is only like eight or ten lanes
2008-01-08 00:47 < Paine> for some reason right now I'm imagining a huge race along that road with about 300 cars all crashing into each other
2008-01-08 00:47 < Paine> Let me tell you, it's an absolutely awesome mental image.
2008-01-08 00:47 < Leslie_S> ive had people nearly run me off the road where that 5th lane ends on i94 ;/
2008-01-08 00:48 < Leslie_S> sometimes you just have to floor it to get away from morons out there
2008-01-08 00:48 < MUNCHLAX> I-4 is now 6 lanes all the way from tampa through to volusia county
2008-01-08 00:49 < bparkis> what's this I'm reading on slashdot about mathematical proofs not being considered fit for wikipedia
2008-01-08 00:49 < bparkis> true or not
2008-01-08 00:49 < quanticle> bparkis: There's controversy over whether a proof constitutes original research
2008-01-08 00:49 < Paine> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:I-90_and_I-5_cloverleaf_seattle_washington.jpg <- who the hell designed this monstrosity?
2008-01-08 00:49 < MUNCHLAX> what's this I'm reading on digg about how ron paul will be the best president ever
2008-01-08 00:49 < MUNCHLAX> true or not
2008-01-08 00:50 < bparkis> look the reason you want to ban original research is because its validity is suspect
2008-01-08 00:50 < Mike_H> President of what?
2008-01-08 00:50 < bparkis> validity in a mathematical proof is not suspect
2008-01-08 00:50 < bparkis> it's verifiable
2008-01-08 00:51 < bparkis> so whether mathematical proofs are original research is irrelevant, because the reason you want to ban original research does not apply to mathematical proofs
2008-01-08 00:51 < quanticle> MUNCHLAX: To answer your original question from long ago, the freeway I was thinking of was I-405
2008-01-08 00:51 < MUNCHLAX> president of presiding over our great united american states of america
2008-01-08 00:51 < Mike_H> Oh.
2008-01-08 00:51 < Leslie_S> mathematical proofs?
2008-01-08 00:51 < Mike_H> No.
2008-01-08 00:51 < Leslie_S> like 4+4=8?
2008-01-08 00:52 < quanticle> MUNCHLAX: At one point Guiness identified I-405 as the most heavily traveled road in the world
2008-01-08 00:52 < bparkis> regardless, wikipedia does contain many mathematical proofs, so why are people saying its policy is opposed to them
2008-01-08 00:52 < bparkis> is that really true
2008-01-08 00:53 < quanticle> bparkis: I don't think there is any policy as of yet
2008-01-08 00:53 < MUNCHLAX> guinness is pretty crappy about stuff like that
2008-01-08 00:53 < MUNCHLAX> they called [[Yonge Street]] the longest road but it's broken
2008-01-08 00:53 < Ceiling_Cat> MUNCHLAX - very false. He'd be a disaster
2008-01-08 00:53 < Ceiling_Cat> fortunately he has 0 chance of being elected
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: Thank my mom for that
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> and the legions of other middle-aged men and women who can't operate computers
2008-01-08 00:54 < Paine> I'm just waiting for the day you all sell your dignity and elect Tom Hanks as President.
2008-01-08 00:54 < Schroeder> actually, Ron Paul is the only acceptable candidate running
2008-01-08 00:54 < quanticle> Schroeder: False
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: My mom saw a sign
2008-01-08 00:54 < quanticle> Schroeder: Ron Paul is not acceptable
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> it said "GOOGLE RON PAUL"
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> and she turned to me and said
2008-01-08 00:54 < NotACow> quanticle: don't argue with insane people.
2008-01-08 00:54 < Schroeder> quanticle: incorrect
2008-01-08 00:54 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - I actually think Ron Paul is one of those Sam Brownback types - the more you learn about his positions, the more crazy you realize he is and how bad he'd be
2008-01-08 00:54 < Mike_H> "What's a Google?"
2008-01-08 00:54 < Cyrius> Paine: we already elected an actor, and one not as good as Tom Hanks
2008-01-08 00:55 < Paine> wait, who?
2008-01-08 00:55 < Leslie_S> what party is ron paul?
2008-01-08 00:55 < Leslie_S> republican, right?
2008-01-08 00:55 < Mike_H> Ronald Reagan, stupid
2008-01-08 00:55 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Republican
2008-01-08 00:55 < Lycurgus_> obviously they've all been found acceptable or they would be in the process
2008-01-08 00:55 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - A republican (this election)
2008-01-08 00:55 < Lycurgus_> *wouldn't
2008-01-08 00:55 < Paine> Mike_H: "stupid"? Well sorrrrry for not caring about american politics :|
2008-01-08 00:55 < Leslie_S> so is he a republican or a "republican"?
2008-01-08 00:55 < Cyndre> [22:52:54] <CyndreBot> dignity = verb: 0 noun: 9 adjective: 0 adverb: 0 pronoun: 0 preposition: 0 person: 23 place: 9 thing: 2 idea: 0
2008-01-08 00:55 < Cyrius> Leslie_S: registered as a republican because nobody votes for third party candidates
2008-01-08 00:55 < Leslie_S> ah, a "republican"
2008-01-08 00:55 < Leslie_S> heh
2008-01-08 00:55 < bumm13> Cyndre: kill your bot, please
2008-01-08 00:55 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: you say that like he usually isn't.
2008-01-08 00:55 < bparkis> besides even if some mathematical proofs are original research many mathematical proofs are published
2008-01-08 00:55 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: Aren't the primaries supposed to help decide who's acceptable?
2008-01-08 00:55 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - he isn't
2008-01-08 00:56 < Mike_H> Paine: He was host of the General Electric Theatre! And he did those movies with the chimp!
2008-01-08 00:56 < Mike_H> How dare you not know!
2008-01-08 00:56 < Ceiling_Cat> He's previously run as a 3rd party candidate
2008-01-08 00:56 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: _once_
2008-01-08 00:56 < quanticle> Leslie_S: RINO: Republican In Name Only
2008-01-08 00:56 < Cyndre> bumm13: I did ask permission and it was granted
2008-01-08 00:56 < bparkis> it wouldn't be original research to simply recount a proof that was published in a research paper
2008-01-08 00:56 < Cyrius> he's been in congress as a republican forever
2008-01-08 00:56 < Leslie_S> heh
2008-01-08 00:56 < Paine> Jeremy Clarkson for prime minister! \o/
2008-01-08 00:56 < Lycurgus_> quanticle: the vetting of candidates occurs before the primaries. Elections in the US are privately financed untill after that stage.
2008-01-08 00:57 < bumm13> Cyndre: by whom?
2008-01-08 00:57 < Ceiling_Cat> Lycurgus_ - not true.
2008-01-08 00:57 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: Ron Paul has very few large financial backers. Most of his money is raised online
2008-01-08 00:57 < Ceiling_Cat> Lycurgus_ - candidates can get federal matching funds provided they follow certain rules
2008-01-08 00:57 < quanticle> Lycurgus_: There are a few Ayn Randish PACs behind him though
2008-01-08 00:57 < Leslie_S> just as long as hilary isnt going to beat obama
2008-01-08 00:57 < Lycurgus_> well you get some matching funds but you have to have something to match
2008-01-08 00:57 < Mike_H> General Electric Theater was a half-hour CBS radio and television anthology series. The television program was broadcast every Sunday evening beginning February 1, 1953 and ending May 27, 1962.
2008-01-08 00:57 < Lycurgus_> and even after it's the private money that matters
2008-01-08 00:57 < Mike_H> Ronald Reagan became the show's only host on September 26, 1954.
2008-01-08 00:58 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Well that depends on how well she does in NH
2008-01-08 00:58 < Ceiling_Cat> I'm having trouble forcasting the democratic side of this race
2008-01-08 00:58 < Leslie_S> quanticle, do you think she will?
2008-01-08 00:58 < Mike_H> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ronald_Reagan_and_General_Electric_Theater_1954-62.jpg
2008-01-08 00:58 < Lycurgus_> in a lot places that would be thought crazy and it's just assumed that elections will be completely publicly financed
2008-01-08 00:58 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: I'm calling Obama. Unlike you, I'm having trouble forecasting the Republican side of things
2008-01-08 00:58 < Cyndre> <ST47> Cyndre: It needs to not speak, and it can not keep logs
2008-01-08 00:58 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Its a long shot
2008-01-08 00:58 < Ceiling_Cat> The republican side is headed for disaster - Huckabee won in Iowa, McCain is going to win in NH, Thompson or possibly Romey will win in SC, Guliani will take FLorida
2008-01-08 00:59 < Schroeder> Lycurgus_: they shouldn't be publicly financed AT ALL
2008-01-08 00:59 < bumm13> Cyndre: well, it just spoke
2008-01-08 00:59 < Ceiling_Cat> and come super duper tuesday, all those votes are going to be split
2008-01-08 00:59 < Schroeder> it's despicable to think I should be compelled to support the campaign of someone whose ideas I find absolutely abhorrent
2008-01-08 00:59 < Cyndre> no, I spoke
2008-01-08 00:59 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: Giuliani is already pumping big money into ads for Florida
2008-01-08 00:59 < Mike_H> I saw like five of them today while I was watching my stories.
2008-01-08 00:59 < bumm13> <Cyndre> [22:52:54] <CyndreBot> dignity = verb: 0 noun: 9 adjective: 0 adverb: 0 pronoun: 0 preposition: 0 person: 23 place: 9 thing: 2 idea: 0 <---- that's not silence
2008-01-08 00:59 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - I am *PRAYING* for split republican primaries
2008-01-08 00:59 < Cyndre> that would be me repeating what he said
2008-01-08 00:59 < Ceiling_Cat> that would be the absolute worst thing that could happen to them
2008-01-08 00:59 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: The latest term for it is "Super Duper Tsunami Tuesday"
2008-01-08 01:00 < Mike_H> I read somewhere that half of the Republican delegates for Florida will be cut
2008-01-08 01:00 < bumm13> I fail to see how that won't be disruptive
2008-01-08 01:00 < Mike_H> as a response to moving the primary date up
2008-01-08 01:00 < Lycurgus_> yeah, I think we know each other's position. The thing is yous is the one I had when I *first* was exposed to Ayn Rand as a child 40 years ago.
2008-01-08 01:00 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - on the democratic side, possibly
2008-01-08 01:00 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: Oh, you're old.
2008-01-08 01:00 < Ceiling_Cat> not on the republican side
2008-01-08 01:00 < Schroeder> BOB SANDERS WINS DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR! HELL YES!
2008-01-08 01:00 < quanticle> Mike_H: And all the Democrat delegates for florida
2008-01-08 01:00 < Cyndre> I promise not to do it again
2008-01-08 01:00 < Ceiling_Cat> I thought it was supposed to be all of them, though
2008-01-08 01:00 < Mike_H> So it doesn't even matter if the Democrats vote or not
2008-01-08 01:00 < Mike_H> they're not going to get any delegates
2008-01-08 01:00 < Lycurgus_> I'm grown, I'm not old.
2008-01-08 01:01 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: Now you just sound like my dad.
2008-01-08 01:01 < quanticle> Ceiling_Cat: Florida had all its democrat delegates stripped and half its republican ones for moving up its primary
2008-01-08 01:01 < bumm13> Cyndre: ok, that's fine
2008-01-08 01:01 < Lycurgus_> I probably have very little in common with your dad.
2008-01-08 01:01 < Ceiling_Cat> quanticle - good. I think the elections are all too early
2008-01-08 01:01 < quanticle> ceiling_cat: heh, me too
2008-01-08 01:01 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: If your birth decade is the 1950s, that's enough for me
2008-01-08 01:01 < Ceiling_Cat> I support any effort to punish states for moving up
2008-01-08 01:02 < quanticle> ceiling_cat: michigan got its democrat delegates dq'd as well
2008-01-08 01:02 < Mike_H> Oh, good, "my stories" is on [[story]]
2008-01-08 01:02 < quanticle> for the same reason
2008-01-08 01:02 < Mike_H> In older American slang, a soap opera, (e.g., "I'll talk to you later; my story is on.")
2008-01-08 01:02 < quanticle> wow, its midnight
2008-01-08 01:02 < quanticle> i'm off to bed
2008-01-08 01:02 < Ceiling_Cat> anyway, I'm not even sure if my guy will still be in the race by the time I vote on super duper tuesday
2008-01-08 01:03 < Mike_H> I've never heard of it in the singular, though
2008-01-08 01:03 < Mike_H> my grandmother always said "my stories," even if she was only talking about one
2008-01-08 01:03 < bumm13> :x
2008-01-08 01:03 < Lycurgus_> yeah, "stories" normally
2008-01-08 01:03 < Lycurgus_> unless you were trying to cut back
2008-01-08 01:03 * Ceiling_Cat supports is a moderate Chris Dodd supporter
2008-01-08 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> too bad he's polling dead
2008-01-08 01:04 < Lycurgus_> he bowed out Friday
2008-01-08 01:04 < Mike_H> #
2008-01-08 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> did he?
2008-01-08 01:04 < Lycurgus_> didn't he?
2008-01-08 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> Damn
2008-01-08 01:04 < Mike_H> # In older American slang, a soap opera, usually said in the plural, (e.g., "I'll talk to you later; my stories are on.")
2008-01-08 01:04 < Mike_H> there, I changed it
2008-01-08 01:04 < Ceiling_Cat> ok, so I guess I'm officially an undecided again
2008-01-08 01:05 < Ceiling_Cat> that's too bad
2008-01-08 01:05 < Leslie_S> im gonna vote for obama
2008-01-08 01:05 < Leslie_S> obama hussein bin laden
2008-01-08 01:05 < Lycurgus_> I only watch em with the sound off and only for the supermodels
2008-01-08 01:05 < Ceiling_Cat> Basically, there's one issue I use as my shibboleth
2008-01-08 01:05 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: Claudia or Heidi?
2008-01-08 01:06 < Ceiling_Cat> I want a canddiate who staunchly opposes giving telecommunication companies immunity for their illegal co-operation with the Bush administration
2008-01-08 01:06 < Ceiling_Cat> Dodd was way out in front of that
2008-01-08 01:06 < Lycurgus_> I don't know their names, but wrong gender, duh, soaps are targetted for straight women, whence the nice looking guys
2008-01-08 01:07 * Mark_Ryan just killed a large black spider that looked like it was made of plastic
2008-01-08 01:07 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: I was talking about supermodels :P
2008-01-08 01:07 < Mike_H> the battle of the Germans
2008-01-08 01:07 < Mike_H> [[Claudia Schiffer]] vs. [[Heidi Klum]]
2008-01-08 01:07 < Lycurgus_> I couldn't think of a better word
2008-01-08 01:08 < Mike_H> Heidi Klum (pronounced [?kl?m]; born June 1, 1973[1]) is a German supermodel, actress, TV presenter, fashion designer, television producer and singer. She is best known as the hostess of Project Runway and Germany's Next Topmodel, and for her modeling work with Victoria's Secret.
2008-01-08 01:08 < MUNCHLAX> god, that infobox photo is huge
2008-01-08 01:08 < Mike_H> Oh, and she's the 2008 Victoria's Secret Angel
2008-01-08 01:08 < Mike_H> again.
2008-01-08 01:08 < Mike_H> Isn't this like the seventh time she's been the head Angel?
2008-01-08 01:09 < Mike_H> Only Tyra has had that many times as the head Angel.
2008-01-08 01:10 < Lycurgus_> I have no clue, but I have heard of those people.
2008-01-08 01:10 < Mike_H> and I know too much about Victoria's Secret for a gay man
2008-01-08 01:10 < Cyrius> yes. yes you do
2008-01-08 01:11 < Mike_H> Cyrius: After watching nine cycles of Top Model, it's hard not to. And I kind of wish Tyra would have just stayed prancing around in her bat wings and underwear instead of doing Top Model and that Godforsaken talk show.
2008-01-08 01:11 < Lycurgus_> 9 cycles. Do you watch reruns sometimes?
2008-01-08 01:12 * Ceiling_Cat wonders if the US is ready for a black president
2008-01-08 01:12 < Mike_H> Lycurgus_: If you search "tausili" on YouTube, it'll direct you to an account where the person has uploaded all of the cycles
2008-01-08 01:12 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: Not Tyra
2008-01-08 01:12 < Cyrius> what's hilarious is that victoria's secret was started by a man, for men
2008-01-08 01:12 < Ceiling_Cat> This election has the potential to get ugly. I mean, *real* ugly
2008-01-08 01:12 < Mike_H> can you imagine that kind of presidency?
2008-01-08 01:12 < Mike_H> "You're going to prison! You didn't cry after I didn't hand you a photo!"
2008-01-08 01:12 < Mark_Ryan> Ceiling_Cat: you mean, a religious freakazoid versus a black guy?
2008-01-08 01:13 < Cyrius> Ceiling_Cat: you saw what Chris Rock said about a woman president?
2008-01-08 01:13 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - what about New York? (As in, Flav-Flav's chick, the VH1 girl)
2008-01-08 01:13 < Ceiling_Cat> cyrius - refresh my ailing memory
2008-01-08 01:13 < Mike_H> HBIC...of the country!
2008-01-08 01:13 < Cyrius> "I think America is ready for a woman president, but does it have to be that woman?"
2008-01-08 01:13 < Ceiling_Cat> hehe, yes
2008-01-08 01:13 < Ceiling_Cat> But it could be worse
2008-01-08 01:13 < Ceiling_Cat> It could be Condi
2008-01-08 01:13 < Mike_H> Condi isn't a woman
2008-01-08 01:14 < Cyrius> "He's made it hard for a white man to run for president. People are saying, 'After Bush, I'm not sure we can take another chance on a white guy."
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> she's a robot.
2008-01-08 01:14 < Lycurgus_> well she could be out of the picture by this time next week if she doesn't show in NH
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> I hate Hillary's speaking presence
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> she isn't a good speaker
2008-01-08 01:14 < Ceiling_Cat> David Kay, who led the US search for WMD in Iraq, said Condi was the worst national security advisor in the history of the office
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> after that hostage situation in New Hampshire, she gave a press conference, and she would substitute pauses with "um"
2008-01-08 01:14 < Ceiling_Cat> she's a moron. She's been wrong about *everything*
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> I counted how many "um"s she said in 45 seconds.
2008-01-08 01:14 < Mike_H> 16.
2008-01-08 01:15 < Mike_H> After that I just turned it off.
2008-01-08 01:15 < Lycurgus_> but she probably will, wouldn't be surprised if it was no more than that. Could be all three of em go to the convention in which case Edwards would decide it.
2008-01-08 01:16 < Ceiling_Cat> Cyrius - my only comfort at this point is that history is going to judge the Bush adminitration very unkindly
2008-01-08 01:16 < Ceiling_Cat> and for that reason, I hope W. lives a very, very long life
2008-01-08 01:16 < Mike_H> He's so stupid, he won't care.
2008-01-08 01:16 < Ceiling_Cat> I want him to be here for a good long while so historians and keep kicking him around
2008-01-08 01:16 < Mike_H> He doesn't have self-awareness.
2008-01-08 01:16 < Cyrius> he's a sociopath, not stupid
2008-01-08 01:16 < Cyrius> he doesn't care.
2008-01-08 01:16 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - actually, I think he's very concerned about how he's percieved in history
2008-01-08 01:17 < Ceiling_Cat> all presidents are, but I think him more than most
2008-01-08 01:17 < Cyrius> "the president that destroyed america"
2008-01-08 01:17 < Lycurgus_> I think the issue of resposibilty for Bush and Co. will be a issue now that McGovern and others have been calling for impeachment now.
2008-01-08 01:17 < Ceiling_Cat> he's always had a chip on his shoulder - to prove that he wasn't a runt compared to his father
2008-01-08 01:17 < Cyrius> (if I turn out to be wrong, we'll have bigger problems!)
2008-01-08 01:17 < Lycurgus_> i.e. whether or not the Dem candidate will pardon or prosecute
2008-01-08 01:17 < Mike_H> I kind of compare a Bush administration to what would have happened if we had eight years of Ford
2008-01-08 01:17 < Cyrius> er...wait, my ass-covering logic there didn't work
2008-01-08 01:17 < cimon> I read this theory that democrats are going to use big money to swing the florida independents to vote against giuliani, since they may not have a dog in the race there...
2008-01-08 01:18 < Ceiling_Cat> Lycurgus_ - I really hope whichever democrat is elected appoints a special prosecutor to put the whole lot of them in prison
2008-01-08 01:18 < Mike_H> Does Florida have many independents?
2008-01-08 01:18 < Mike_H> I really don't think there are that many.
2008-01-08 01:18 < BraWearerSamuel> I adjust my bra straps when people are looking at me.
2008-01-08 01:18 < BraWearerSamuel> any other guys here wear bras on a regular basis like me?
2008-01-08 01:18 < Cyrius> thwap.
2008-01-08 01:18 < Mike_H> Victoria's Secret told me I had a 46A.
2008-01-08 01:19 < Lycurgus_> well the whole establishment is implicated
2008-01-08 01:19 < Mike_H> but I won't need lift until after 30.
2008-01-08 01:19 < Leslie_S> In the process of cleaning contaminated brownfield sites, surprises are sometimes encountered, such as previously unknown underground storage tanks (USTs), buried drums or buried railroad tank cars containing wastes.
2008-01-08 01:19 < Leslie_S> lol, buried railroad tank cars?
2008-01-08 01:20 < cimon> Mike_H, can you register for a different party on short notice in Florida?
2008-01-08 01:20 < Mike_H> cimon: Yeah.
2008-01-08 01:20 < Mike_H> You have to go to either the tax collector's office or the DMV
2008-01-08 01:20 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, 46? omg!
2008-01-08 01:20 * FastLizard4 stares at the rogue op Ceiling_Cat who has failed to de-op
2008-01-08 01:21 < Mike_H> in Florida you register your political party when you get a driver's license
2008-01-08 01:21 < Mike_H> the supervisor of elections just holds the information
2008-01-08 01:21 < Mike_H> when you have to renew your license on your 18th birthday, you are asked to register to vote then
2008-01-08 01:21 * Ceiling_Cat goes drunk on his own power, bans FastLizard4
2008-01-08 01:21 < FastLizard4> Ceiling_Cat: Freenode policy says you de op when you're done (I'm serious)
2008-01-08 01:21 < Ceiling_Cat> I know
2008-01-08 01:22 < Ceiling_Cat> omg
2008-01-08 01:22 < Ceiling_Cat> it's 1:30
2008-01-08 01:22 < Ceiling_Cat> how did it get so late?
2008-01-08 01:22 < LuciferTiger> yeah
2008-01-08 01:22 < LuciferTiger> sleep
2008-01-08 01:22 < Leslie_S> lol
2008-01-08 01:22 < Mike_H> My mother told me if I didn't register Republican, I wasn't allowed to go home with her
2008-01-08 01:22 < LuciferTiger> cya later everyone
2008-01-08 01:22 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, !
2008-01-08 01:23 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - when I found out my g/f was republican, I threw her out of my dorm room :P
2008-01-08 01:23 < Mike_H> Leslie_S: I'd imagine it's a cultural thing, I'm sure a lot of other kids heard the same from their parents where I'm from
2008-01-08 01:23 * FastLizard4 ... must... sleep...
2008-01-08 01:23 < Mike_H> 70% of the population in my home county is registered Republican
2008-01-08 01:23 < Leslie_S> and heh, why am i so scared to get my ears pierced?
2008-01-08 01:23 < cimon> Mike_H, that's one way to get the chick out of the nest...
2008-01-08 01:23 < Lycurgus_> I can't understand why people take the 2-part system seriously and I would never participate in it again, the last time being in '92 after a 12 year hiatus.
2008-01-08 01:24 < Lycurgus_> y
2008-01-08 01:24 < Mike_H> My mom doesn't even care about politics. She basically parrots what my father tells her.
2008-01-08 01:24 < Mike_H> She didn't vote in an election until she was 30.
2008-01-08 01:24 < Ceiling_Cat> I'm 0/2 for my presidential votes
2008-01-08 01:24 < Ceiling_Cat> it'll be nice to finally win one
2008-01-08 01:24 < Mike_H> I'm 1/1 :(
2008-01-08 01:24 < Ceiling_Cat> !!
2008-01-08 01:24 < Mike_H> Hey, in 2004 I didn't know a lot of the shit that came out later
2008-01-08 01:24 < Mike_H> it was all kept hush until 2005
2008-01-08 01:24 < Leslie_S> i voted bush in 04
2008-01-08 01:25 < Leslie_S> and i didnt vote before that
2008-01-08 01:25 < Mike_H> you couldn't
2008-01-08 01:25 < Mike_H> you weren't old enough
2008-01-08 01:25 < Leslie_S> duh
2008-01-08 01:25 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - that's bull. In 2004, we knew everything about Bush that we needed - that Iraq was a disaster, that there were no WMD
2008-01-08 01:25 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: But it was loudmouth bitches like Arianna Huffington yelling it
2008-01-08 01:25 < Mike_H> who listens to her?
2008-01-08 01:25 < Ceiling_Cat> that he wanted to cut taxes for the rich while spending like the money was on fire
2008-01-08 01:26 < Mike_H> It was not a universally-accepted thing in 2004.
2008-01-08 01:26 < Lycurgus_> well I certainly won't vote for Obama just because he's the same racially, although I do feel good about his candidacy, it's just too little too late.
2008-01-08 01:26 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, my only other option was *KERRY*
2008-01-08 01:26 < Mike_H> It was very much partisan.
2008-01-08 01:26 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, no way in hell i want hik
2008-01-08 01:26 < Leslie_S> *him
2008-01-08 01:26 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - Kerry might not been the most exciting person, but he's certainly better than what we have now, and (contrary to what Mike says) we knew all of that in 2004
2008-01-08 01:27 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike - at what point, exactly, did you change your mind about Bush?
2008-01-08 01:27 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: As I said, it was not universally declared in 2004.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Ceiling_Cat> Katrina?
2008-01-08 01:27 < Mike_H> Mid-2005.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Mike_H> Yeah.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, kerry lied a lot in the most obvious ways. bush...well, i didnt realize how much of what he said was lies until after 2004.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Lycurgus_> kerry was a dumber more upper class clinton
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, but bushes lies arent as obvious...
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> :o
2008-01-08 01:27 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - Kerry did not lie about anything
2008-01-08 01:27 < Mike_H> But how could I not change my mind after that? Katrina hit mere minutes from my home.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, i used the wrong word.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Ceiling_Cat> He lost because he was swift-boated
2008-01-08 01:27 < Mike_H> They're still not recuperated.
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, he changed his mind every time he was asked a question
2008-01-08 01:27 < Ceiling_Cat> people claimed - falsely - that he didn't earn his three purple hearts
2008-01-08 01:27 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, i dont know why i said what i said.
2008-01-08 01:28 < Ceiling_Cat> while his draft-dodging opponent got a pass
2008-01-08 01:28 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: For real, Kerry didn't win, can we drop this?
2008-01-08 01:28 < Ceiling_Cat> it boggles the mind
2008-01-08 01:28 < Mike_H> You voted your way, we voted our way, it was 2004, now it's 2008
2008-01-08 01:28 < Mike_H> really.
2008-01-08 01:28 < Lycurgus_> he lost because he was a creep, better to keep the creep in the hand than the creep in the bush
2008-01-08 01:28 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, he also started sentences with "When i was in vietnam..." as often as bob dole starts them with "bob dole"
2008-01-08 01:28 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, which pissed me the hell off
2008-01-08 01:28 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - it was an unfortunate campaign decision he made to run on vietnam, instead of the multitude of things he could do better than bush
2008-01-08 01:29 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, and he flipflopped so much
2008-01-08 01:29 < Mike_H> I don't think I'll change my party affiliation this year, but it does make me slightly ashamed to be associated with all of that.
2008-01-08 01:29 < Ceiling_Cat> He didn't run a smart campaign, I'll grant you that
2008-01-08 01:29 < Mike_H> If it wasn't for Charlie Crist, I probably would have already.
2008-01-08 01:29 < Mike_H> Crist is perhaps the most liberal Republican in a governorship now.
2008-01-08 01:29 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, and i remember watching a debate where he was asked about gay marriage, and he tried to take it both ways!
2008-01-08 01:29 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - Kerry *crushed* Bush in 3 debates
2008-01-08 01:29 < Leslie_S> "well, im against gay marriage, but im for civil unions with the exact same rights as marriage..."
2008-01-08 01:29 < Ceiling_Cat> I watched them all, I remember them very well
2008-01-08 01:29 < Leslie_S> Ceiling_Cat, i only commented on one question.
2008-01-08 01:30 < Mike_H> Leslie_S: Isn't the governor of Michigan a woman?
2008-01-08 01:30 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, yes, and i hate her.
2008-01-08 01:30 < Mike_H> What's her name? Jennifer Granholm?
2008-01-08 01:30 < Ceiling_Cat> Leslie_S - Civil unions are a way of giving gay couples the same rights as marriage without using the word marriage, which conservatives claim should be reserved for a man and a woman
2008-01-08 01:30 < Leslie_S> Jennifer Granholm
2008-01-08 01:30 < Ceiling_Cat> it's a middle-ground position between supporting gay marriage and opposing it
2008-01-08 01:31 < Lycurgus_> the thing is these people are basically like news anchors, or sales people out to bamboozle the public and maybe themselves
2008-01-08 01:31 < Ceiling_Cat> I don't blame him for taking it
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> Ceiling_Cat: Is that old woman still the governor in Delaware?
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> Ruth Ann Minner?
2008-01-08 01:31 < Lycurgus_> it will be interesting to see how this all plays out when the party is over
2008-01-08 01:31 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_h - for one more year, yes
2008-01-08 01:31 < FastLizard4> 'nigh people
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> one more year until what?
2008-01-08 01:31 < FastLizard4> *'night
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> she dies?
2008-01-08 01:31 < Ceiling_Cat> Nobody really likes her
2008-01-08 01:31 < Ceiling_Cat> Mike_H - until she hits the term limit and retires
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> well, she deserves it
2008-01-08 01:31 < Mike_H> she's 95.
2008-01-08 01:32 < Ceiling_Cat> actually, I really hope something happens to Mike Castle
2008-01-08 01:32 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, did you hear about the state government shutdown? for 2 hours, in the middle of the night? the only things affected that actually mattered were drawbridges and rest areas (truckers had nowhere to sleep at night, drawbridges were closed until like 8am..
2008-01-08 01:32 < Ceiling_Cat> I really, really want to see him gone
2008-01-08 01:32 < Leslie_S> what party is granholm anyway
2008-01-08 01:32 < Mike_H> Leslie_S: haha, no
2008-01-08 01:32 < Ceiling_Cat> I have since the day he voted to impeach clinton
2008-01-08 01:32 < Mike_H> Leslie_S: I think she's D
2008-01-08 01:32 < Ceiling_Cat> (yes, I hold grudges for decades)
2008-01-08 01:32 < Mike_H> Jennifer Mulhern Granholm (born February 5, 1959 in Vancouver, British Columbia) is a Canadian-born American politician and the current Governor of the U.S. state of Michigan. A member of the Democratic Party, Granholm became Michigan's first female governor on January 1, 2003, when she succeeded Governor John Engler.
2008-01-08 01:32 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, i was really looking forward to the shutdown because there was going to be a 90% reduction in state police forces, meaning i could drive as fast as i want on i-94.
2008-01-08 01:33 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, and then after the shutdown, they had me freaked out about an ex post facto tax hike that wouldve cost me my entire federal tax return..
2008-01-08 01:33 < Mike_H> Charlie Crist is so secretly gay, it's not even funny. He just needs to come out. He actually has a lot of support from the gay community, where you'd think he wouldn't due to his party affiliation.
2008-01-08 01:33 < Leslie_S> Mike_H, they ended up coming up with a totally sane averaged tax raise though.