freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-07 15:46 < Mike_H> Actuals 81��F 52��F
2008-01-07 15:46 < Ceiling_Cat> what do I look like, Britney Spears' sister?
2008-01-07 15:46 < Mike_H> Averages 70��F 53��F
2008-01-07 15:46 < quanticle> NoulNou: Romania is not the power in the Black Sea. That distinction belongs to Ukraine. Heck, the Russian Black Sea fleet still sorties from Sevastopol...
2008-01-07 15:46 < Messedrocker> Ceiling_Cat, you're forgetting that I am (almost) 16
2008-01-07 15:47 < FauxFaux> 5°C, Feels Like 1°C. :(
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> mean temperature 58, average mean 22
2008-01-07 15:47 < Mike_H> the record low for yesterday was 30
2008-01-07 15:47 < Mike_H> back in 1999
2008-01-07 15:47 < bumm13> (3 C locally :)
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> 36 degrees above average
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> WTF IS GOING ON DUDE
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> IT FEELS LIKE MAY OUTSIDE
2008-01-07 15:47 < lc2> NotACow: the end of the world as we know it
2008-01-07 15:47 < lc2> EVERYBODY PANIC
2008-01-07 15:47 < Messedrocker> NotACow, IT DOES!
2008-01-07 15:47 < Mike_H> NotACow: It feels like April here
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> heating degree days: 8
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> EIGHT
2008-01-07 15:47 < Messedrocker> i felt really happy walking home today
2008-01-07 15:47 < quanticle> NotACow: April...
2008-01-07 15:47 < NotACow> dude, it's supposed to be 43!
2008-01-07 15:47 < NoulNou> romania have one organizations that rule black see organization
2008-01-07 15:48 < NotACow> not 8
2008-01-07 15:48 < Mike_H> May is when we start getting 90 degrees and high humidity
2008-01-07 15:48 < NoulNou> all the countrys from the blacks see are in it
2008-01-07 15:48 < Mike_H> and today we're at 81 but only like 40% humidity, so it's an April kind of day
2008-01-07 15:48 < quanticle> NotACow: Our temperature is supposed to be around 10 degrees F. Current temp is 40
2008-01-07 15:48 < NoulNou> just russia is not
2008-01-07 15:48 < NotACow> WE HAVE POSITIVE GROWING DEGREE DAYS
2008-01-07 15:48 < NotACow> MY PLANTS ARE GOING TO SPROUT SOON
2008-01-07 15:48 < quanticle> NoulNou: What organization is that?
2008-01-07 15:48 < NotACow> my poor daffodils
2008-01-07 15:49 < NotACow> they will be gefrozen
2008-01-07 15:49 < Messedrocker> JABONUS!
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> NotACow: Our weather has been all over the place
2008-01-07 15:49 < NotACow> you know it's going to freez again
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> this is the January maximum and minimum
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> Month
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> to date 81��F 30��F
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> So the highest high we have had so far is 81, and the coldest low is 30.
2008-01-07 15:49 < LuciferTiger> where did u pull the figures from Mike_H
2008-01-07 15:49 < NoulNou> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sea_Forum_for_Partnership_and_Dialogue
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> weather.com
2008-01-07 15:49 < Mike_H> http://www.weather.com/outlook/homeandgarden/schoolday/pastweather/USFL0291?from=36hr_topnav_schoolday
2008-01-07 15:50 < Messedrocker> lol ur from Lutz
2008-01-07 15:50 < Messedrocker> can't spell SLUTZ without LUTZ
2008-01-07 15:50 < Mike_H> that's not how it's pronounced
2008-01-07 15:50 < Messedrocker> can't spell SLOOTZ without LOOTZ
2008-01-07 15:50 < quanticle> NoulNou: Just because they have their own organization doesn't mean that they're powerful.
2008-01-07 15:50 < Mike_H> Lutz (pronounced /?lu?ts/) is an unincorporated census-designated place in Hillsborough County, Florida, United States.
2008-01-07 15:51 < NoulNou> they have the bigest port there
2008-01-07 15:51 < NoulNou> and they are the 3 economy there
2008-01-07 15:51 < NoulNou> and they are in EU
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> russia in turkey aren`t
2008-01-07 15:52 < quanticle> NoulNou: Isn't Sevastapol the largest port on the Black Sea?
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> no
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> Comstanta
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> Constanta
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> in rosmania
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> romania
2008-01-07 15:52 < Messedrocker> con-stant-a
2008-01-07 15:52 < Messedrocker> con-stant-a
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> yes
2008-01-07 15:52 < Messedrocker> la da ka wa za
2008-01-07 15:52 < Messedrocker> CON-STANT-A!
2008-01-07 15:52 < NoulNou> constanta
2008-01-07 15:52 < Mike_H> I wish there really was a city called Ladakawaza.
2008-01-07 15:53 < Mike_H> Like, they can rename New Orleans that.
2008-01-07 15:53 < Messedrocker> no, New Orleans can be Septic Lake
2008-01-07 15:53 < Mike_H> "I'm going to Mardi Gras in Ladakawaza!"
2008-01-07 15:53 < NoulNou> constanta have the direct link with roterdam
2008-01-07 15:53 < Messedrocker> "What is that like in Africa?"
2008-01-07 15:53 < NoulNou> via dunare
2008-01-07 15:53 < Mike_H> "It's in the French Quarter, stupid. It's in France."
2008-01-07 15:54 < quanticle> NoulNou: Romania might the be the economic power, as you suggest, but I don't see Romania having the same political influence as Ukraine
2008-01-07 15:55 < Mike_H> In a purely American standpoint here
2008-01-07 15:55 < NoulNou> quanticle why you said this?
2008-01-07 15:55 < Mike_H> when was the last time we even heard about Romania?
2008-01-07 15:55 < Messedrocker> Mike_H, 1977
2008-01-07 15:55 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: oh, no, I was thinking 1989
2008-01-07 15:55 < Mike_H> when they shot Ceaucescu
2008-01-07 15:55 < Messedrocker> 1977 was the last I heard of Romania
2008-01-07 15:56 * bumm13 sits on Messedrocker
2008-01-07 15:56 < Messedrocker> between 1985 and 1990 I was incarcerated
2008-01-07 15:56 < NoulNou> in april 2008 it will be nato summit mat bucharest
2008-01-07 15:56 < bumm13> "197" isn't "200" ;p
2008-01-07 15:56 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: You are so hardcore.
2008-01-07 15:56 * Ceiling_Cat glues Messedrocker to the floor
2008-01-07 15:56 < bumm13> hardcore baby food ;)
2008-01-07 15:57 < quanticle> NoulNou: I don't see Europe or America paying as much attention to Romania or worrying as much about Romania as it does about Ukraine, which shows that Ukraine still has the clout to command European and American attention and concern, while Romania does not
2008-01-07 15:57 < Mike_H> I had a dream about Communist Poland last night
2008-01-07 15:57 < quanticle> Mike_H: Are you from Poland?
2008-01-07 15:57 < Mike_H> no
2008-01-07 15:58 < quanticle> Mike_H: Then your dream becomes 10x more interesting
2008-01-07 15:58 < Mike_H> I was with a group of people trying to hide from the Communist secret police
2008-01-07 15:58 < Mike_H> I was with my brother
2008-01-07 15:58 < Mike_H> Rachel from Another World
2008-01-07 15:58 < Mike_H> and Kyle from America's Next Top Model 5
2008-01-07 15:58 < NoulNou> but what you think about poland is abobe ukraine?
2008-01-07 15:58 < Messedrocker> And all interest has went away.
2008-01-07 15:58 < Mike_H> Hey, you be nice to Kyle, she helped us get into Warsaw with guns a-blazin'
2008-01-07 15:59 < quanticle> NoulNou: Poland and Ukraine are about the same, I think. Poland probably edges in front of Ukraine by a little bit, based on its greater proximity to Western Europe
2008-01-07 15:59 < NoulNou> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Bucharest_Summit
2008-01-07 16:00 < quanticle> NoulNou: That's because Romania contributed troops to Afghanistan. Its a gesture of appreciation, nothing more...
2008-01-07 16:00 < NoulNou> ukraine just have dreams to be in nato
2008-01-07 16:01 < quanticle> NoulNou: So does Romania
2008-01-07 16:01 < NoulNou> but hey romania
2008-01-07 16:01 < NoulNou> whay?
2008-01-07 16:01 < Mike_H> Messedrocker: I will have you know that Kyle and I raced in a Trabant automobile past the police cars and made it to downtown Warsaw, and we safely hid in an apartment building with an old lady and her cats.
2008-01-07 16:01 < NoulNou> hungary, bulgaria, greece, turkey
2008-01-07 16:02 < NoulNou> they also can be the hostes
2008-01-07 16:02 < quanticle> NoulNou: Basically all the administrations in E. Europe are concerned about Russia's resurgence. Therefore they're looking to the West for security guarantees.
2008-01-07 16:03 < Messedrocker> I once dreamt, in fact fairly recently, that I was at a doctor's appointment
2008-01-07 16:03 < Messedrocker> except my doctor was James Carville
2008-01-07 16:03 < quanticle> Messedrocker: That's no dream
2008-01-07 16:03 < quanticle> That's a nightmare
2008-01-07 16:03 < Messedrocker> I don't think it was James Carville's personality, though
2008-01-07 16:03 < Messedrocker> Only his appearance
2008-01-07 16:03 < Save_dot_su_TLD> hallo any Russian here?
2008-01-07 16:03 < NoulNou> and romania is security?
2008-01-07 16:04 < quanticle> NoulNou: Hmmm, what do you mean?
2008-01-07 16:04 < Save_dot_su_TLD> need someone who can translate Russian to English
2008-01-07 16:04 < gwern> quanticle: ironic isn't it, given that those countries looking to the West for help which is one of Russia's sore points
2008-01-07 16:04 < gwern> Save_dot_su_TLD: I'm guessing it's the ru wikibooks thing?
2008-01-07 16:04 < quanticle> Save_dot_su_TLD: Hmm, I don't think anyone here know Russian
2008-01-07 16:05 < SNORLAX> I dreamed last night that I was in some sort of anti-wikipedia cabal that was headquartered in a van
2008-01-07 16:05 < quanticle> gwern: Heh. Its sort of a chicken and egg phenomenon. Russias gets mad about its former clients breaking away, which causes its clients to break farther
2008-01-07 16:05 < NoulNou> romania is like a border gate for EU
2008-01-07 16:06 < NotACow> "When we said you could leave, we didn't really expect you to!"
2008-01-07 16:06 < NoulNou> they need romania to be like a wall in the east
2008-01-07 16:06 < Ceiling_Cat> SNORLAX - did the agents get you?
2008-01-07 16:06 < shimgray> SNORLAX: I would like to think our anti-Wikipedia cabals are a little, well, larger
2008-01-07 16:06 < quanticle> NotACow: Heh. Exactly
2008-01-07 16:06 < NoulNou> in fromt of ukraine russia
2008-01-07 16:06 < NotACow> SNORLAX: did they wear black suits, white shirts, and narrow white ties?
2008-01-07 16:06 < NotACow> er, narrow black ties?
2008-01-07 16:06 < shimgray> it's kind of demoralising if the forces plotting to bring us down can all fit in the back of a Transit
2008-01-07 16:07 < LuciferTiger> who was plotting what
2008-01-07 16:07 < NotACow> shimgray: you could probably put all the major players at wikipedia review into a small van :)
2008-01-07 16:07 < Ceiling_Cat> LuciferTiger - the anti-wikipedia cabal
2008-01-07 16:07 < NotACow> shimgray: of course, they'd probably kill each other within a few minutes.
2008-01-07 16:07 < LuciferTiger> which is?
2008-01-07 16:07 < gwern> shimgray: demoralizing? I prefer to think of it as 'Look how much good one small bomb could do for us!'
2008-01-07 16:07 < quanticle> NoulNou: You raise a good point. Ukraine might be politically more significant, but Ukraine is more allied with Russia. Therefore the West might be elevating Romania to counter Ukrainian influence
2008-01-07 16:08 < NoulNou> yes
2008-01-07 16:08 < NoulNou> they give money and power to romania for this
2008-01-07 16:08 < SNORLAX> I don't remember much more, since I had more dreams after that
2008-01-07 16:08 < NoulNou> in 2008 romania it will get 30 bilions $ for economy
2008-01-07 16:08 < SNORLAX> I do remember waking up from that dream into another and bursting out of my room and telling my family about it
2008-01-07 16:09 < NoulNou> from EU
2008-01-07 16:09 < NoulNou> more than hungary ore bulgaria
2008-01-07 16:09 < quanticle> NoulNou: I do know that Romainia is opening up faster than other countries in that area. One of my friends was an exchange student there...
2008-01-07 16:09 < NoulNou> ore other countrys from east
2008-01-07 16:09 < shimgray> wait, wait, wait
2008-01-07 16:10 < NoulNou> yes
2008-01-07 16:10 < quanticle> shimgray: What is it?
2008-01-07 16:10 < shimgray> are we seriously comparing the satellite-ness of Ukraine and *Romania*?
2008-01-07 16:10 < shimgray> there doesn't seem to be much debate over that one to me
2008-01-07 16:10 < quanticle> shimgray: Well, Romania is ascendant these days, and Ukraine is declining
2008-01-07 16:11 < NoulNou> yes
2008-01-07 16:11 < NoulNou> what you think about cuba?
2008-01-07 16:12 < quanticle> shimgray: Romania, like Estonia is weternizing fast, and slower countries like Ukraine are being squeezed economically as a result
2008-01-07 16:12 < quanticle> NoulNou: What about Cuba?
2008-01-07 16:12 < shimgray> romania is *vastly* more in the western orbit than the Ukraine is.
2008-01-07 16:12 < gwern> one of my favorite tea terms is 'agony of the leaves'
2008-01-07 16:12 < shimgray> and one could argue always has been
2008-01-07 16:12 < quanticle> shimgray: That's exactly what I'm saying
2008-01-07 16:12 < NoulNou> they will still remaind comunist?
2008-01-07 16:12 < gwern> ' * Agony of the leaves: unfolding of the leaves in boiling water
2008-01-07 16:12 < NoulNou> for a lont time?
2008-01-07 16:12 < Amgine> gwern: <grin>
2008-01-07 16:13 * bumm13 brushes his tooths
2008-01-07 16:13 < quanticle> NoulNou: Yeah, probably. There's no one standing up to oppose the handover of power from Fidel to Raul
2008-01-07 16:13 * quanticle wonders if White_Cat is the dictator of Cuba
2008-01-07 16:13 < NoulNou> hmmm yes
2008-01-07 16:14 < NoulNou> and north korea it is isolated how much it can resist in tis situation
2008-01-07 16:14 < quanticle> NoulNou: Even in the US, the politicians are just going through the motions as far as Cuba is concerned. I don't think anyone will take any real action
2008-01-07 16:14 * Ceiling_Cat greases up White_Cat and does unspeakable things to him
2008-01-07 16:14 < NoulNou> i mean the kim regim
2008-01-07 16:14 < NoulNou> ore his suns
2008-01-07 16:14 < NoulNou> ones
2008-01-07 16:14 < NoulNou> after him
2008-01-07 16:15 < quanticle> NoulNou: Well, N. Korea is a little bit more interesting. Cuba at least has oceans to form a physical barrier. N. Korea does not. With China developing as fast as it is, and S. Korea being already developed and pushing for greater integration, it'll be interesting to see how long the N. Korean regime can hang to its isolation
2008-01-07 16:16 < quanticle> I think I'll live to see the fall of the "Korean Wall"
2008-01-07 16:16 < NoulNou> yes i`m wander too
2008-01-07 16:16 < NoulNou> this day is close i think
2008-01-07 16:17 < quanticle> NoulNou: It depends on how rational the N. Korean leadership is...
2008-01-07 16:17 < NoulNou> kim is not rational
2008-01-07 16:18 < NoulNou> and peoples from north korea, they have rarelly see a tv
2008-01-07 16:18 < NoulNou> so they are more like in 60 -70
2008-01-07 16:18 < NoulNou> s
2008-01-07 16:18 < quanticle> NoulNou: Rationality is not a binary thing. There are degrees of irrationality. Therefore, it is a valid question to ask, "Exactly how rational is Kim Jong Il?"
2008-01-07 16:18 < NoulNou> they don`t know what it is in this world
2008-01-07 16:19 < quanticle> NoulNou: That's true. They'll probably be in for a pretty big shock when the wall comes down
2008-01-07 16:19 < NoulNou> i mean kim it will ceap the power for himself ore his suns
2008-01-07 16:20 < NoulNou> they see about kim like a god
2008-01-07 16:20 < NoulNou> they don`t know whats internet lol
2008-01-07 16:20 < quanticle> NoulNou: As far as the leader-God thing goes, its unclear how much of that is propaganda, and how much is actual belief
2008-01-07 16:21 < NoulNou> yes
2008-01-07 16:21 < NoulNou> but is have seen many documentary
2008-01-07 16:21 < NoulNou> that they have said n koreans are like in a big prison
2008-01-07 16:22 < NoulNou> with brain whased
2008-01-07 16:22 < DNihilist> Quick ballpark question for you guys. How many wikipedia contributors are there?
2008-01-07 16:23 < NoulNou> 10 milions?
2008-01-07 16:23 < gwern> we hit 2 mill accounts a while, most were dead, so I'd guess somewhere between .5 and 1m? or are we counting anons?
2008-01-07 16:23 < quanticle> DNihilist: Active contributors?
2008-01-07 16:24 < quanticle> I'd say probably 1000 to 10000 that are active on any semblance of a regular basis
2008-01-07 16:24 < NotACow> there's 15,000 contributors or so, tops
2008-01-07 16:24 < DNihilist> wow 15,000 only?
2008-01-07 16:24 < NotACow> maybe 20,000 if you use a really weak definition of "active"
2008-01-07 16:25 < DNihilist> wow...well I have an account and remove bullshit and add little citations here and there. But I certainly never full a page up wiith content
2008-01-07 16:25 < gwern> DNihilist: oh, so you meant regular contributors?
2008-01-07 16:25 < DNihilist> so 15,000-20,000 is the answer I'm using
2008-01-07 16:25 < gwern> I was thinking all-time
2008-01-07 16:25 < NotACow> and probably a good percentage of those 15,000 are actually sockpuppets
2008-01-07 16:25 < NoulNou> bye all
2008-01-07 16:26 < quanticle> DNihilist: There are surprisingly small number of contributors for such a large project.
2008-01-07 16:26 < quanticle> An even smaller number are actually productive contributors
2008-01-07 16:26 < NotACow> it's hard to quantify the total number of actual contributors
2008-01-07 16:26 < DNihilist> thats the point I'm using. anyone have a citation on that (or a wiki link)
2008-01-07 16:26 < NotACow> there's lots of accounts with one or two edits
2008-01-07 16:26 < NotACow> but those accounts are not actual contributors
2008-01-07 16:26 < quanticle> I'm not counting troll and puppet hunting as productive activities, since there is no net contribution from them
2008-01-07 16:26 < NotACow> and there are millions of edits from anons
2008-01-07 16:26 < NotACow> each anon IP could represent one person or thousands.
2008-01-07 16:27 < NotACow> quanticle: i would love to see the number of accounts with still-extant contributions
2008-01-07 16:27 < DNihilist> does wikipedia have any documentation on this
2008-01-07 16:27 < SNORLAX> NotACow, get with the newspeak! a sockpuppet is now an "illicit" alternate account, but if it's licit it's just an "alternate account"
2008-01-07 16:27 < NotACow> quanticle: bt that would require wikiblaming every article.
2008-01-07 16:27 < quanticle> NotACow: I think you'd be surprised as to how many there were....
2008-01-07 16:28 < NotACow> quanticle: i don't have a good intuition as to how many there are
2008-01-07 16:28 < quanticle> NotACow: I've authored an article that hasn't been touched since I made it...
2008-01-07 16:28 < gwern> I think you could try to characterize anons - count each edit-day as a person. 50 different edits credited to an IP over a few years is more likely several people than one, but 20 in a day bespeaks a single editor, if you follow
2008-01-07 16:28 < NotACow> DNihilist: wikipedia, for all its navel gazing, doesn't like to talk about itself.
2008-01-07 16:28 < quanticle> NotACow: I'd say about 50% of contributions are still extant
2008-01-07 16:29 < DNihilist> yeah I know that, I'll just keep looking
2008-01-07 16:29 < DNihilist> thanks guys
2008-01-07 16:29 < SNORLAX> DNihilist, if you want a very rough number of who works on the "top tier" of model articles, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_featured_article_nominations
2008-01-07 16:30 < quanticle> gwern: I don't think that's valid. For example, I followed that pattern until I made a concious decsion to become more active
2008-01-07 16:31 < gwern> quanticle: ah, but what about university IPs? wouldn't one shared IP there outweigh a number of miscounted quanticles?
2008-01-07 16:32 < quanticle> gwern: With University IPs your risk is the opposite. The risk is in identifying the IP as a single person rather than as many people because of the volume of edits...
2008-01-07 16:32 < quanticle> If each person on a university IP makes one or two edits a month, that adds up to a significant daily total
2008-01-07 16:33 < Phoenix-away> when
2008-01-07 16:33 < gwern> mm. I don't think so, I've seen more than a few university IPs, and their edits are lumpy, not smooth
2008-01-07 16:35 < NotACow> quanticle: the same is trhe of AOL IPs
2008-01-07 16:35 < NotACow> quanticle: the same editor can use multiple different IPs in the course of a single editing session
2008-01-07 16:36 < NotACow> under the right circumstances, each subsequent edit will have a different IP
2008-01-07 16:36 < quanticle> Hmmm. Yes. That's also a concernt
2008-01-07 16:36 < quanticle> *concern
2008-01-07 16:36 < NotACow> then there's singapore
2008-01-07 16:36 < NotACow> where hundreds of editors are piled into the same IP
2008-01-07 16:37 < NotACow> all of saudi arabia shows up on the same IP
2008-01-07 16:37 < NotACow> all of serbia used to
2008-01-07 16:37 < SNORLAX> singapore, now your friendly sockpuppet haven!
2008-01-07 16:39 < quanticle> SNORLAX: If you move to Singapore to edit Wikipedia anonymously, your priorities are all sorts of screwed up. Besides, doesn't Singapore filter its internet like China?
2008-01-07 16:41 < VoxRationis> anyone here who has been following the [[WP:Non-Admin Rollback]] discussion?
2008-01-07 16:41 < SNORLAX> Wikipedia does not have a project page with this exact name.
2008-01-07 16:41 < SNORLAX> * Start the Wikipedia:Non-Admin Rollback page
2008-01-07 16:41 < VoxRationis> Wikipedia:Non-administrator rollback
2008-01-07 16:42 < quanticle> VoxRationis: Still no luck
2008-01-07 16:43 < quanticle> Found it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-administrator_rollback
2008-01-07 16:46 < VoxRationis> yeah, just wondering if anyone has a clue as to the outlook of that discussion...there is about a 2/3 poll in support, which most feel is not consensus, but it gets tricky there. It would seem a shame to reject the proposal when >280 have supported it, but if consensus is not reached then what? very few people have voiced anything of alternatives...
2008-01-07 16:47 < quanticle> VoxRationis: I think a 2/3 majority vote for is consensus, as far as most practical concerns go. That doesn't mean I see this as a good idea...
2008-01-07 16:49 < VoxRationis> some users say that 2/3s is not consensus, especially with the anti-poll arguements, and the voting is evil arguments
2008-01-07 16:51 < quanticle> VoxRationis: In that case then, what is consensus? If you're saying that consensus has to be 100%, then its impossible to reach consensus with any non-trivial group size
2008-01-07 16:52 < VoxRationis> this is true...unfortunately, wikipedia policy on consensus has always been fuzzy, what with WP:NOT#DEMOCRACY...its all hypocritical really...which leads me to ask...how will the discussion end
2008-01-07 16:53 < quanticle> VoxRationis: It'll end up going whichever way the Cabal wants it to go :)
2008-01-07 16:56 < Phoenix-away> Wow, Interiot came back n Christmas day for a while
2008-01-07 16:58 < quanticle> Phoenix-Wiki: Interiot?
2008-01-07 16:59 < Phoenix-away> yeah
2008-01-07 17:13 < Sepultura> was ist besser MSSQL oder MySQL?
2008-01-07 17:13 < Alkivar> http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg263/ezeze11/1190613808114.jpg
2008-01-07 17:14 < Alkivar> all hail the great wyrms
2008-01-07 17:14 < DragonFire1024> I have a riddle
2008-01-07 17:14 < Sepultura> sry wrong channel
2008-01-07 17:15 < DragonFire1024> and this is not likely to get answered here...but worth a shot
2008-01-07 17:15 < DragonFire1024> heh
2008-01-07 17:15 < DragonFire1024> if anoyne is good a little facts or checking them
2008-01-07 17:15 < DragonFire1024> as any other citizen journalism website interviewed a world leader?
2008-01-07 17:15 < DragonFire1024> has*
2008-01-07 17:16 < mavhk> where's the riddle?
2008-01-07 17:16 < kmccoy> Alkivar, http://gallery.kevin-mccoy.com/view/GoDiego/
2008-01-07 17:16 < DragonFire1024> thats the riddle
2008-01-07 17:17 < mavhk> I don't think that qualifies
2008-01-07 17:17 < DragonFire1024> Has any citizen journalism site to date, interviewed a world leader?
2008-01-07 17:17 < DragonFire1024> ok more so a quiz :)
2008-01-07 17:18 < DarkAppo89> bye
2008-01-07 17:19 < Alkivar> kmccoy: this is the sound system for which show?
2008-01-07 17:19 < kmccoy> Alkivar, Go Diego Go Live, my new job.
2008-01-07 17:20 < Alkivar> cool
2008-01-07 17:20 < Alkivar> are you managing setup? or just running console?
2008-01-07 17:21 < kmccoy> Alkivar, I'm the A2 (asst audio) for the tour. We're just checking out the rig in the shop at the moment, but when we head out on the road I'll help set up the system and I'll run the LCS playback for the show.
2008-01-07 17:23 < bumm13> hiya kmccoy
2008-01-07 17:23 < kmccoy> Hey, bumm13. :)
2008-01-07 17:24 < bumm13> they should have had a Rocko's Modern Life Live years ago ;)
2008-01-07 17:24 < kmccoy> hehe
2008-01-07 17:26 < Alkivar> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/video-alienwares-curved-display-caters-to-gamers/
2008-01-07 17:27 < Alkivar> FUUUUUUUUUCK
2008-01-07 17:27 < Alkivar> DO WANT
2008-01-07 17:27 < Cyrius> i can has peripheral vision?
2008-01-07 17:28 < Alkivar> 0.02 ms refresh rate
2008-01-07 17:28 < Alkivar> thats insane
2008-01-07 17:28 < Alkivar> bet that needs dual sli to just push the monitor
2008-01-07 17:28 < Alkivar> 4 dvi outs to run
2008-01-07 17:31 * kmccoy want an 8 GB MicroSD.
2008-01-07 17:31 < kmccoy> +s
2008-01-07 17:32 < NotASpy> what for ?
2008-01-07 17:32 < kmccoy> I bought a new phone. :)
2008-01-07 17:32 < bumm13> yay
2008-01-07 17:32 < Alkivar> can it even use an 8gb?
2008-01-07 17:32 < lc2> kmccoy: i should do that
2008-01-07 17:32 < Alkivar> most phones dont even use beyond 4gb microSDHC
2008-01-07 17:32 < kmccoy> Yes, it can use up to 32GB whenever they get released.
2008-01-07 17:33 < lc2> nokia 7110 <3
2008-01-07 17:33 * kmccoy has the Nokia N95-3
2008-01-07 17:33 < Alkivar> ahhhh
2008-01-07 17:33 < Alkivar> that explains it
2008-01-07 17:33 < Alkivar> nokia always makes the best shit
2008-01-07 17:33 < NotASpy> now a 8Gb card would be nice for my camera.
2008-01-07 17:33 < Alkivar> i've got a 4gb in my razr
2008-01-07 17:33 < kmccoy> This phone is basically my point and shoot camera.
2008-01-07 17:33 < Alkivar> all i use it for is my mp3s
2008-01-07 17:34 < kmccoy> I was planning on buying a little camera that I could carry in my pocket (as opposed to my Canon S3, which I only carry when I'm planning on sightseeing), then I saw this phone.
2008-01-07 17:36 < NotASpy> how many megapixies is it ?
2008-01-07 17:36 < kmccoy> 5
2008-01-07 17:36 < kmccoy> I'll upload an example photo.
2008-01-07 17:37 * bumm13 prefers megafairies
2008-01-07 17:37 < bumm13> funny thing, "sprite" is an actual tech term ;)
2008-01-07 17:38 < Mahlzahn> does anyone know if there is a wikiproject 'law' or something similar?
2008-01-07 17:38 < Alkivar> yes there is
2008-01-07 17:39 < Alkivar> [[WP:LAW]]
2008-01-07 17:39 < lc2> [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Law]]
2008-01-07 17:39 < lc2> i don't think you looked too hard
2008-01-07 17:39 < JerseyDevil86> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Law
2008-01-07 17:39 < Mahlzahn> lc2: I left of the WP: prefix when searching.
2008-01-07 17:39 < lc2> Mahlzahn: oh ;x
2008-01-07 17:40 < Mahlzahn> :)
2008-01-07 17:44 < Alkivar> hey kmccoy looks like you should have waited: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/hands-on-with-the-nokia-n95-8gb-for-north-america/
2008-01-07 17:44 < kmccoy> Alkivar, that's always the story with technology.
2008-01-07 17:44 < Alkivar> of course
2008-01-07 17:45 < Alkivar> just figured i'd point it out
2008-01-07 17:45 < kmccoy> Alkivar: I knew about that phone before I bought this one.
2008-01-07 17:45 < Alkivar> i prefer the N93 myself
2008-01-07 17:45 < Alkivar> did they ever release that one in a quad band phone for north america?
2008-01-07 17:46 < kmccoy> I don't get to NYC often enough to be patient enough to wait for the 8 gig. :)
2008-01-07 17:49 < kmccoy> Hm, what's the advantage of that phone? Slightly larger screen? Slightly faster processor, and the memory is built-in?
2008-01-07 17:50 < NotACow> i hate users
2008-01-07 17:51 < lc2> NotACow: ?
2008-01-07 17:51 < NotACow> just an observation
2008-01-07 17:51 < lc2> you hate everyone that has ever used anything?
2008-01-07 17:51 < lc2> that's a lot of hate
2008-01-07 17:51 < NotACow> ha
2008-01-07 17:51 < NotASpy> hate or dislike ?
2008-01-07 17:52 < NotASpy> I always find hate is a rather strong word for people you only know by a nickname through the internet.
2008-01-07 17:52 < NotACow> actually i was thining of a cow-orker :)
2008-01-07 17:53 < NotASpy> ah. Then hate's a fine term to use.
2008-01-07 17:53 < kmccoy> Was that an intentional misplacement of your hyphen?
2008-01-07 17:54 * ST47 also hates users.
2008-01-07 17:55 < ST47> We must arrange a user pain day sometime.
2008-01-07 17:56 * Ceiling_Cat facehuggles ST47
2008-01-07 17:56 < Ceiling_Cat> But I bet you like oxygen!
2008-01-07 17:56 * Ceiling_Cat squeezes
2008-01-07 17:57 * ST47 does indeed like oxygen.
2008-01-07 17:57 < Alkivar> hrm sandisk just released a 12gb microSDHC
2008-01-07 17:57 < Ceiling_Cat> microSDHC?
2008-01-07 17:57 * ST47 locates one of the cluebats intended for User Death Day
2008-01-07 17:59 < kmccoy> Alkivar, seriously?
2008-01-07 17:59 < kmccoy> Alkivar, I can't even find the 8 gb at any stores yet.
2008-01-07 18:01 < Alkivar> yeah released at CES today
2008-01-07 18:01 < Alkivar> engadget has a link
2008-01-07 18:01 < Alkivar> 1sec
2008-01-07 18:02 < Alkivar> http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/sandisk-crams-12gb-onto-a-microsdhc-card/
2008-01-07 18:02 < Ceiling_Cat> 2007 was the warmest year on record
2008-01-07 18:03 < gwern> micro-SDHC?
2008-01-07 18:03 < kmccoy> Nice.
2008-01-07 18:03 * gwern actually wants a nice multi-gig SDHC card for my [[GP2X]]
2008-01-07 18:03 < kmccoy> Maybe I should just wait to buy the 12 gig. :)
2008-01-07 18:04 < gwern> '4. offline Wikipedia (just in case)'
2008-01-07 18:04 < NotACow> http://www.wikback.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=30&Number=200#Post200
2008-01-07 18:05 < The359> Study: Male monkeys 'pay' females for sex by grooming them
2008-01-07 18:05 < The359> SINGAPORE - Male macaque monkeys pay for sex by grooming females, according to a recent study that suggests the primates may treat sex as a commodity.
2008-01-07 18:05 < Ceiling_Cat> AWESOME
2008-01-07 18:05 < bumm13> roffle
2008-01-07 18:05 < The359> filthy whores!
2008-01-07 18:05 * Ceiling_Cat emails that link to his GF
2008-01-07 18:06 < gwern> NotACow: heh. the ones whom the whistle is being blown never see it as a whistle blower situation. No true scotsman and all that...
2008-01-07 18:06 < gwern> Ceiling_Cat: you think she'll put out if you're handy with a brush?
2008-01-07 18:06 < gwern> *on whom
2008-01-07 18:06 < NotACow> gwern: oops, wrong link
2008-01-07 18:06 < NotACow> http://www.wikback.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=763#Post763 is the one i meant
2008-01-07 18:06 < gwern> NotACow: though, boo on you for a lame response
2008-01-07 18:08 < gwern> NotACow: a comission would never scale... you want to turn en into de, it seems
2008-01-07 18:08 < NotACow> gwern: the whole point is for it not to scale
2008-01-07 18:09 < NotACow> gwern: unlicensed media should be sparingly used.
2008-01-07 18:09 < Ceiling_Cat> time to go home
2008-01-07 18:09 < Ceiling_Cat> g'night folks!
2008-01-07 18:09 < NotACow> gwern: anyway, my suggestion will never be implemented
2008-01-07 18:09 < gwern> yes, I'm glad
2008-01-07 18:09 < NotACow> gwern: that fact that i suggested it guarantees it
2008-01-07 18:09 < gwern> you have good ideas sometimes. this is not one of them
2008-01-07 18:09 < NotACow> gwern: i stand by my prediction, though
2008-01-07 18:10 < NotASpy> it's going to be an accurate prediction, I think.
2008-01-07 18:10 < Mahlzahn> "Out of curiousity, why hasn't wikimedia ever created a "live" messaging system? By that I mean one where a person's messages are sent and received in real-time, not requiring users to refresh the Wikipedia page."
2008-01-07 18:10 < lc2> haha
2008-01-07 18:10 < NotACow> Mahlzahn: haha
2008-01-07 18:11 < gwern> mm. I wouldn't bet against it, but I'm a little skeptical. aside from a handful of hardliners, how many en-ers care bout or even know about the foundation resolution?
2008-01-07 18:11 < gwern> Mahlzahn: what, like an irc channel?
2008-01-07 18:11 < NotACow> gwern: it only takes two admins to create a wheel war
2008-01-07 18:11 < bumm13> I would find that scary ;p
2008-01-07 18:11 < NotACow> gwern: and there's at least a dozen who are adamant on the unlicensed media angle.
2008-01-07 18:11 < NotACow> gwern: and well over a dozen who are adamant the other way
2008-01-07 18:11 < Mahlzahn> gwern: nah. Imagine what that would throw up.
2008-01-07 18:11 < NotACow> gwern: the resolution will give the hardliners the excuse they need
2008-01-07 18:12 < NotACow> gwern: remember, in wikipedia yu don't have to be right, you just have to be able to pretend to be right
2008-01-07 18:12 < NotACow> and then it just comes down to who can scream the loudest and the longest.
2008-01-07 18:12 < NotASpy> The big wigs at the Foundation are all generally against non free content, so it'll be fun come March.
2008-01-07 18:13 < NotACow> NotASpy: the fooundation has never enforced unpopular policies
2008-01-07 18:13 < gwern> NotACow: yeah, but they need a flashpoint
2008-01-07 18:13 < NotACow> NotASpy: the foundation won't move to enforce this one
2008-01-07 18:13 < Dtobias> I like eyecandy even if it's unfree... :-)
2008-01-07 18:13 < Mahlzahn> NotACow: yes, and accuse your opponent of all kinds of greviances.
2008-01-07 18:13 < Dtobias> It's nice for pages on albums and books to show their covers for instance.
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> NotASpy: but the strident anti-fair-use camp will use the resolution as their justification to go to war
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> then when they get reverted (and you know they will)
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> they will try to use the resolution to clobber whoever reverted them
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> and then the screaming will start
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> and the rfcs
2008-01-07 18:14 < NotACow> and the arbcoms
2008-01-07 18:15 < ST47> DEATH TO FAIR USE
2008-01-07 18:15 < kibble> O_O
2008-01-07 18:15 < NotACow> and so forth and so on
2008-01-07 18:15 < ST47> DEATH TO ARBCOME
2008-01-07 18:15 < NotACow> glorious wikidrama
2008-01-07 18:15 < ST47> DEATH TO WIKI
2008-01-07 18:15 * ST47 hums
2008-01-07 18:15 < NotACow> ultimately it won't matter who is right or wrong
2008-01-07 18:15 < NotACow> or what the foundation reslution requires or not
2008-01-07 18:15 < NotACow> what will matter is who screams the loudest and the longest
2008-01-07 18:16 < NotASpy> NotACow: it's already started, we're not at the RfC and RfAr stages yet. There's already running revert wars on pages with lots of images.
2008-01-07 18:16 < NotACow> NotASpy: i know
2008-01-07 18:16 < NotACow> NotASpy: it'll just get worse over the next couple of months
2008-01-07 18:16 < Mahlzahn> to be fair... I think we need to stick with the premise that *all* content is free for anyone to use for any purpose. Fair use undermines that principle, but we could for instance allow companies to provide a general release on album covers and what not.
2008-01-07 18:17 < Mahlzahn> the problem is that we need to make it clear in article space that fair use images may not be duplicated like everything else is.
2008-01-07 18:18 < gwern> Mahlzahn: what about quotes?
2008-01-07 18:18 < gwern> we have thousands hundreds of thousands of quotes, not even counting the wikiquote articles
2008-01-07 18:18 < Mahlzahn> IMO, its really a matter of consistency with principles. Not a matter of ethics.
2008-01-07 18:18 < gwern> those are fair use
2008-01-07 18:18 < gwern> should we eliminate them too?
2008-01-07 18:18 < NotACow> gwern: many of them should be :)
2008-01-07 18:19 < Lycurgus_> this wasn't my first rodeo, so I've found it easier to adapt here
2008-01-07 18:19 < Lycurgus_> that and I have other outlets
2008-01-07 18:20 < Mahlzahn> gwern: thats what I meant about making it clear. Quotes are _evidently_ from another source. While images are not so.
2008-01-07 18:23 < Mahlzahn> If quotes are not attributed, we call it plagiarism. If images are not attributed we call it fair-use. :)
2008-01-07 18:23 < The359> since when do we call it plagiarism?
2008-01-07 18:24 < Mahlzahn> we don't?
2008-01-07 18:24 < The359> we just call it unreferenced
2008-01-07 18:24 < The359> we don't assume people have plagiarised
2008-01-07 18:25 < The359> unless we can prove it
2008-01-07 18:25 < Mahlzahn> "unreferenced" only when its obviously a quote (as in: its in quotation marks).
2008-01-07 18:26 < The359> and for normal statements of fact
2008-01-07 18:26 < Mahlzahn> then its plagiarism.
2008-01-07 18:26 < Mahlzahn> and subject to immediate removal
2008-01-07 18:26 < The359> no, it is unreferenced
2008-01-07 18:27 < The359> Plagiarism is only if someone copies someone else's work without permission
2008-01-07 18:27 < Mahlzahn> nm. I didn't see the "and"
2008-01-07 18:27 < Mahlzahn> No! plagiarism is non-attribution of text or ideas.
2008-01-07 18:28 < The359> yes, if written by someone else
2008-01-07 18:29 < The359> Stating a fact without proof is not plagiarism
2008-01-07 18:29 < Mahlzahn> errr. We are not discussing WP:V. :)
2008-01-07 18:29 < The359> Saying "He said 'this and this and this'" without a citation is not plagiarism
2008-01-07 18:29 < Mahlzahn> The subject is fair-use.
2008-01-07 18:29 < The359> it's just unreferenced
2008-01-07 18:30 < The359> you said we call it plagiarism, and we don't
2008-01-07 18:30 < Random832> plagiarism isn't a term wikipedia uses at all
2008-01-07 18:30 < Random832> so "we" don't call anything plagiarism
2008-01-07 18:30 < Mahlzahn> we call it copyvio
2008-01-07 18:30 < Random832> no, copyvio is different
2008-01-07 18:30 < Random832> [a lot of copyvio is also plagiarism, though]
2008-01-07 18:31 < Mahlzahn> correct
2008-01-07 18:31 < Mahlzahn> The359: Plagiarism is the practice of claiming or implying original authorship of (or incorporating material from) someone else's written or creative work, in whole or in part, _into one's own without adequate acknowledgement_.
2008-01-07 18:32 < Mahlzahn> Thus (and as I said before) "He said 'this and this and this'" is not plagiarism
2008-01-07 18:33 < Mahlzahn> but a wp article that contains the words (sans quotation marks) 'this and this and this' is plagiarism.
2008-01-07 18:33 < The359> Your original statement is that quotes were unattributed
2008-01-07 18:34 < The359> hence plagiarism
2008-01-07 18:34 < Serbianboy1> hello
2008-01-07 18:35 < Mahlzahn> 00:27 <The359> Plagiarism is only if someone copies someone else's work without permission
2008-01-07 18:35 < Mahlzahn> 00:27 <Mahlzahn> No! plagiarism is non-attribution of text or ideas.
2008-01-07 18:36 < The359> <Mahlzahn> If quotes are not attributed, we call it plagiarism. If images are not attributed we call it fair-use. :)
2008-01-07 18:36 < Mahlzahn> A statement that is in quotes is very obviously /not/ one's own words. If not cited they are not cited, but they are still very obviously not one's own.
2008-01-07 18:37 < ST47> DEATH TO FAIR USE
2008-01-07 18:38 < Lycurgus_> doesn't look like blockbusters play against Netflix is working out.
2008-01-07 18:39 < Serbianboy1> ST47:
2008-01-07 18:39 < Starnestommy> DEATH TO TROLLS
2008-01-07 18:39 < Serbianboy1> yeah baby
2008-01-07 18:39 < Serbianboy1> yeah baby
2008-01-07 18:40 < Lycurgus_> even the sexy ones? Maybe there's a *special* penalty for them.
2008-01-07 18:42 < Rinn> I love trolls.
2008-01-07 18:44 < Mahlzahn> The359: Fine, you're in wikilawyer mode. So read the sentence as: Putting someone else's text on WP we call a copyvio. Putting someone else's picture on WP we call it fair-use.
2008-01-07 18:46 < The359> what wikilawyer mode?
2008-01-07 18:46 < The359> text can be replicated in alternate manners that do not violate copyright
2008-01-07 18:47 < The359> Summaries, explanations, etc
2008-01-07 18:47 < The359> Pictures rarely can
2008-01-07 18:48 < Mahlzahn> Well, you could attribute them in article space.
2008-01-07 18:50 < Mahlzahn> And one of the CC licenses accepted at commons even requires this, but I've never seen it enforced.
2008-01-07 18:53 < The359> The point is famous, copyrighted text is easy to describe and use
2008-01-07 18:53 < The359> Copyrighted Images are not
2008-01-07 18:53 < Mahlzahn> Have the servers superimpose a banner blaring "THIS IS NOT WP CONTENT. See WP:FAIR USE" or similar into fair-use images.
2008-01-07 18:54 < The359> it does, on the image summary page
2008-01-07 18:54 < Mahlzahn> superimpose == append into image.
2008-01-07 18:54 < Mahlzahn> or even, do it just in the filename.
2008-01-07 18:54 < The359> I'm fairly certain adding to copyrighted images would invalidate fair use
2008-01-07 19:03 < yelyos> I had the oddest dream
2008-01-07 19:04 < yelyos> that the Wikimedia Foundation was some sort of evil conglomerate ruling the world, and I was infiltrating a giant, imposing skyscraper with the red, green, and blue book logo shining in an imposing way from the top floor
2008-01-07 19:04 < shimgray> Mahlzahn: I believe Greg has experimented with that
2008-01-07 19:04 < shimgray> (a small text banner on the bottom of the image)
2008-01-07 19:05 < yelyos> riding into it on a motorcycle during a dark, rainy night
2008-01-07 19:05 < SNORLAX> yelyos, I had a dream last night about being in a van with other anti-wikipedia collaborators
2008-01-07 19:05 < SNORLAX> don't remember much else
2008-01-07 19:05 < yelyos> oh, I didn't have this dream last night
2008-01-07 19:05 < yelyos> probably at least a year ago
2008-01-07 19:05 < yelyos> but it's stuck with me
2008-01-07 19:06 < Mahlzahn> shimgray: IMO, that should be acceptable then.
2008-01-07 19:07 < shimgray> Mahlzahn: long way from implementation, though!
2008-01-07 19:07 < Mahlzahn> oh!
2008-01-07 19:08 < The359> would modifying fair use images be allowed, shimgray?
2008-01-07 19:09 < Mahlzahn> on another note: would it be impolite to reassign a bugzilla report to the author of the affected mediawiki extension?
2008-01-07 19:09 < quanticle> Are we still talking about Wikipedia related dreams?
2008-01-07 19:09 < shimgray> The359: Editing them is as legally allowed as reusing them without permission ;-)
2008-01-07 19:09 < The359> heh
2008-01-07 19:09 < shimgray> (and if our own rules say we can't do something like this, which would significantly help us comply with the spirit of those rules, then the obvious answer is to change the damned things)
2008-01-07 19:10 < shimgray> (excessive compliance with the letter of rules we ourselves made up before is a very tempting, but very silly, thing to do)
2008-01-07 19:10 < yelyos> I thought modification was allowed for parody
2008-01-07 19:11 < Mahlzahn> to repeat my question (and not reiterate at #mw): would it be impolite to reassign a bugzilla report to the author of the affected mediawiki extension?
2008-01-07 19:12 < Sfan00> Hi NicholasT
2008-01-07 19:12 < Sfan00> Does anyone on here know anything about 'earthband' radio?
2008-01-07 19:13 < quanticle> Mahlzahn: Well, I don't think so...
2008-01-07 19:14 < Mahlzahn> I just pinged Random832. Its a bug he's a cc: for...
2008-01-07 19:15 < Mahlzahn> but I guess he's asleep
2008-01-07 19:16 < Mahlzahn> and its only 1:15! :p
2008-01-07 19:21 < Xihix> Idling, eh...
2008-01-07 19:24 < Xihix> Someone talk!
2008-01-07 19:26 < lc2> denied
2008-01-07 19:26 < Xihix> anyone up for some copy editing?
2008-01-07 19:26 < lc2> sure
2008-01-07 19:27 < Xihix> ok
2008-01-07 19:27 < Mike2> Xihix, did you ever get that article through FAC?
2008-01-07 19:27 < Xihix> I'll pm you the article
2008-01-07 19:27 < lc2> hokay
2008-01-07 19:27 < Xihix> Dookie? yeah, awhile ago.
2008-01-07 19:27 < lc2> why don't you put it in here?
2008-01-07 19:28 < Xihix> well
2008-01-07 19:28 < Xihix> I don't want to get Mike_H mad
2008-01-07 19:28 < Xihix> since it could be somewhat of an announcement
2008-01-07 19:28 < The359> too late
2008-01-07 19:28 < lc2> why would be be?
2008-01-07 19:28 < Xihix> I dunno, I don't want him to get angry
2008-01-07 19:28 < lc2> okay
2008-01-07 19:29 < Xihix> you got it?
2008-01-07 19:29 < lc2> yes
2008-01-07 19:30 < Xihix> ok, brb.
2008-01-07 19:30 < lc2> kay
2008-01-07 19:31 < lc2> seems fine
2008-01-07 19:32 < yrlnry_> I would like to request that some neutral parties have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Per_stirpes&diff=prev&oldid=182838382
2008-01-07 19:33 < yrlnry_> I would be interested to learn whether people think it has encyclopedic value.
2008-01-07 19:33 < lc2> sure
2008-01-07 19:34 < The359> the link does, but it should be rewritten
2008-01-07 19:34 < lc2> yes
2008-01-07 19:36 < yrlnry_> Perhaps one of you would do it?
2008-01-07 19:37 < The359> Done
2008-01-07 19:38 < hahnchen> Is anyone here actively involved with Wikipedia:Non-free content?
2008-01-07 19:38 < Sfan00> Why?
2008-01-07 19:38 < Sfan00> I did abig swepe of images earlier in the year
2008-01-07 19:38 < yrlnry_> Thanks.
2008-01-07 19:38 < Dtobias> The site it links to is crappily designed... it forces a horizontal scroll to read all the text on my browser for no good reason.
2008-01-07 19:39 < Dtobias> http://www.mystatewill.com/per_stirpes_calc.htm
2008-01-07 19:39 < hahnchen> have you come across the current argument over fair use images in lists?
2008-01-07 19:43 < Xihix> lc2
2008-01-07 19:43 < Paine> wow
2008-01-07 19:43 < Paine> the topic had a haircut recently
2008-01-07 19:43 < lc2> Xihix: 00:32 < lc2> seems fine
2008-01-07 19:43 < The359> It makes the room lighter
2008-01-07 19:43 < Xihix> eh.
2008-01-07 19:43 < Rinn> Xihix is a palindrome!
2008-01-07 19:43 < Xihix> no copy editing needed?
2008-01-07 19:43 < Xihix> yes yes, good job, Rinn
2008-01-07 19:44 < Paine> boob :o
2008-01-07 19:44 < Paine> yay, more palindromes.
2008-01-07 19:44 < Xihix> ah, boob...
2008-01-07 19:44 < Xihix> Interesting topic of study, if I say so myself.
2008-01-07 19:45 < Paine> indeed.
2008-01-07 19:46 < hahnchen> random curiosity - does anyone know who [[User:Hammersoft]] is?
2008-01-07 19:46 < The359> A user
2008-01-07 19:46 < hahnchen> no other ideas?
2008-01-07 19:46 < Rinn> A user of Wikipedia.
2008-01-07 19:47 < hahnchen> insightful
2008-01-07 19:47 < Paine> apparently a hammer... made of a not-very-dense material
2008-01-07 19:48 < Paine> Hmm.
2008-01-07 19:48 < Paine> "booby" and "chick" in the same image name.. of a featured image o.o
2008-01-07 19:48 < Paine> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/76/Booby_chick.jpg/800px-Booby_chick.jpg
2008-01-07 19:48 < Paine> hehehe