freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-02 21:45 < sarahc> I guess at 1974.
2008-01-02 21:45 * Cyrius knows nothing
2008-01-02 21:46 < Messedrocker> how OLD is that thing
2008-01-02 21:46 < Messedrocker> yeah, looks like it
2008-01-02 21:46 < Messedrocker> reminds me of the magnavox odyssey
2008-01-02 21:48 < Mike_H> The exceptionally chilly night immediately follows one of the coldest days in recent years, with temperatures struggling to make it out of the 40s (less than 10 degrees Celsius) as far south as Indian River County on the Atlantic coast. Some locations in the panhandle did not rise out of the 30s this afternoon (less than 5 degrees Celsius).
2008-01-02 21:52 < kmccoy> Dude. If you're about 20, I have no sympathy. :P
2008-01-02 21:52 < brown_cat> O_o
2008-01-02 21:53 < brown_cat> who is 20?
2008-01-02 21:54 < kmccoy> Er. Above 20. That's what I meant.
2008-01-02 21:54 < kmccoy> Degrees. Fahrenheit.
2008-01-02 22:11 < Alkivar> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/music/a82523/mc-hammer-to-launch-youtube-rival.html
2008-01-02 22:12 < Messedrocker> stupidity, alkivar
2008-01-02 22:12 < The359> MC Hammer to become reaquainted with debt
2008-01-02 22:13 < Messedrocker> why do i love "TextEdit" so much
2008-01-02 22:22 < Alkivar> http://www.boingboing.net/2008/01/02/wikiffiti-stickers-t.html
2008-01-02 22:27 < Luna-San> Heh, I like it. Wonder how hard it'd be to get a few of those.
2008-01-02 22:28 < DevFrndlyIxAPIs_> so it looks like Guiliani won't even place in either Iowa or New Hampshire. The New Yorker has a really great questionnaire on him which I got 13 out of 18 right.
2008-01-02 22:28 < The359> be perfect for political signs
2008-01-02 22:59 < Schroeder> man
2008-01-02 22:59 < Schroeder> Edgerrin James really killed his HoF potential when he went to Arizona
2008-01-02 23:02 < kenlyric> Schroeder: because money is important.
2008-01-02 23:03 < Lubaf> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0LtUX_6IXY <- TETRIS played with people.
2008-01-02 23:03 < Lubaf> (Not the Japanese Game Show, BTW)
2008-01-02 23:05 < kmccoy> Jeez, he's not very good. :P
2008-01-02 23:05 < Lubaf> kmccoy: True.
2008-01-02 23:05 < kmccoy> I guess he gets a bit better, but he made some pretty stupid choices at the beginning.
2008-01-02 23:05 < Lubaf> kmccoy: Although it might've been one of those "I'm doing something else right now" things.
2008-01-02 23:06 < kmccoy> True.
2008-01-02 23:08 < Schroeder> lessee
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> definite HoFers at Indy:
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Manning
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Harrison
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Vinatieri
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Probables:
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Saturday
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Sanders
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Freeney
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Possibles:
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Wayne
2008-01-02 23:09 < Schroeder> Addai
2008-01-02 23:09 < Pilotguy> right
2008-01-02 23:10 < The359> moving on
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> definite HoF flooders on #wikipedia:
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> Schroeder.
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> Schroeder.
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> Schroeder.
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> Lubaf
2008-01-02 23:11 < Lubaf> Schroeder.
2008-01-02 23:11 < Schroeder> Poopdick
2008-01-02 23:11 < The359> SNORLAX
2008-01-02 23:12 < Pilotguy> troll
2008-01-02 23:12 < The359> SNORLAX is an All-American All-Star Wikipedian
2008-01-02 23:12 < The359> he is automatically an HoF in all categories
2008-01-02 23:12 < The359> even the bad ones
2008-01-02 23:28 < Pilotguy> /ping
2008-01-02 23:52 < jkimball4> Where would one make a proposal which would require altering a number of pages? It'd be too hectic to put information in all the talk pages to show reasoning.
2008-01-02 23:52 < jkimball4> But i don't want to look like a vandal
2008-01-02 23:57 < kmccoy> jkimball4, do all the pages have a similar theme? Perhaps there's a relevant wikiproject?
2008-01-02 23:58 < jkimball4> kmccoy: All the pages are disambiguation pages. My interest are the ccTLDs and the ways they're defined which is decidely nonstandard.
2008-01-02 23:58 < jkimball4> Where would I look to see if there's a relevant wikiproject?
2008-01-02 23:59 < kmccoy> Well, you could just make the change and see if someone reverts you. :) Are you just making them consistent with each other?
2008-01-03 00:00 < jkimball4> Well, often times they are not categorized while other ones are. The phrasing has the correct info but differs from code to code.
2008-01-03 00:00 < unforgettableid> hi all, is there a userbox I can use to tell people what my email address is so they don't have to log in and use Special:Emailuser?
2008-01-03 00:00 < jkimball4> It's been nagging at me for ages.
2008-01-03 00:01 < Random832|zzz> unforgettableid: you can just put it on your page as text
2008-01-03 00:01 < Random832|zzz> Jimbo does that
2008-01-03 00:02 < kmccoy> jkimball4, I would just make the change. Do you have an account?
2008-01-03 00:02 < unforgettableid> still, is there a userbox I can use? I know I can put it on my userpage as text, but I like userboxes.
2008-01-03 00:02 < kmccoy> unforgettableid, be aware that you'll be exposing it to spammers' scraper bots.
2008-01-03 00:02 < unforgettableid> :)
2008-01-03 00:02 < Random832|zzz> there are templates that will put it with an image of an @ sign
2008-01-03 00:02 < unforgettableid> kmccoy: i will disguise it: unforgettableid at gmail.com
2008-01-03 00:02 < unforgettableid> Random832|zzz: cool :)
2008-01-03 00:02 < kmccoy> Yeah, that always fools them.
2008-01-03 00:02 < jkimball4> kmccoy: Oh, yeah. I've added to the community before, but never done anything quite as far reaching. (There's a lot of ccTLDs ;) )
2008-01-03 00:02 < Random832|zzz> Template:NonSpamEmail
2008-01-03 00:03 < Random832|zzz> kmccoy: could do something that requires human parsing
2008-01-03 00:03 < jkimball4> I'll just write up a little blurb for the talk page (the hard way) and go ahead with it then.
2008-01-03 00:03 * jkimball4 hopes some admins are watching. ;)
2008-01-03 00:03 < Random832|zzz> something like "My email address is the same as my username here, at [[Gmail]]"
2008-01-03 00:03 < kmccoy> jkimball4, if you've got an account, I doubt you'll be seen as a vandal. Just use a decent edit summary, and check every so often to see if anyone is reverting you, and if they are, see what their objections are.
2008-01-03 00:04 < jkimball4> fair enough
2008-01-03 00:04 < kmccoy> Random832|zzz, yeah, that would be better. :)
2008-01-03 00:04 < jkimball4> thanks kmccoy
2008-01-03 00:04 < FastLizard4> jkimball4: Big Brother is not an admin, but he watches you always...
2008-01-03 00:04 < jkimball4> ha ha
2008-01-03 00:04 < kmccoy> jkimball4, good luck. Remember [[WP:BOLD]]. :)
2008-01-03 00:04 < Random832|zzz> jkimball4: what's going on?
2008-01-03 00:04 < unforgettableid> is there an easy way to search through the set of available userboxen?
2008-01-03 00:04 < jkimball4> kmccoy: eh?
2008-01-03 00:04 < unforgettableid> including ones in userspace.
2008-01-03 00:04 < Random832|zzz> unforgettableid: not really. anyone can make one, and they're scattered all over the place
2008-01-03 00:04 < kmccoy> unforgettableid: No. Userboxes are evil. :)
2008-01-03 00:05 < Random832|zzz> why do you need a userbox?
2008-01-03 00:05 < Big-Brother> How can Random832|zzz be asleep if he's typing
2008-01-03 00:05 < Big-Brother> ?\
2008-01-03 00:05 < kmccoy> jkimball4: Go read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:BOLD :)
2008-01-03 00:05 < Random832> I took a nap :P
2008-01-03 00:05 < unforgettableid> Random832|zzz: c'mon, a "My email address is" one is not evil.
2008-01-03 00:05 < unforgettableid> :)
2008-01-03 00:05 < Big-Brother> EVIL GREASE MONKEY!
2008-01-03 00:05 < Random832> unforgettableid: make your own
2008-01-03 00:06 < Random832> or see Wikipedia:Userboxes#Gallery
2008-01-03 00:06 < unforgettableid> Random832: but i am lazy :)
2008-01-03 00:06 < unforgettableid> ok i will check the gallery. thx for pointing me there
2008-01-03 00:06 < Random832> [[Wikipedia:Userboxes/Computing]]
2008-01-03 00:06 < Random832> second thing on the page
2008-01-03 00:06 < jkimball4> kmccoy: thanks. got it. ;)
2008-01-03 00:07 < Random832> if you're so brazen as to put it not only as a working email address but even as a mailto link, anyway
2008-01-03 00:07 < kmccoy> jkimball4, :)
2008-01-03 00:07 < unforgettableid> Random832: Wikipedia:Userboxes#Gallery shows just "ID1 Content ID2" on my screen. how about for you?
2008-01-03 00:07 < kmccoy> jkimball4, if you get harassed about it, leave me a message on my talk page and I'll see if I can help you out tomorrow when I'm back.
2008-01-03 00:08 < Random832> unforgettableid: um, huh?
2008-01-03 00:08 < Random832> there's a section which is a link to a bunch of subpages
2008-01-03 00:08 < unforgettableid> Random832: where? I see nothing.
2008-01-03 00:08 < Random832> oh - Wikipedia:Userbox#Gallery
2008-01-03 00:08 < Random832> all the subpages are with "Userboxes" so it's confusing
2008-01-03 00:09 < unforgettableid> Random832: someone should fix it :)
2008-01-03 00:09 < Random832> it looks like vandalism actually, or test editing - i'll take a look
2008-01-03 00:09 * Big-Brother is watching you
2008-01-03 00:09 * Big-Brother watches you always
2008-01-03 00:10 < unforgettableid> where is there a gallery of all userboxes on one page?
2008-01-03 00:10 < unforgettableid> not on 30 separate pages :)
2008-01-03 00:10 < Random832> that'd explain why my link screwed up - it was valid before
2008-01-03 00:10 < Random832> um, there are thousands of userboxes.
2008-01-03 00:10 < unforgettableid> so i'll disable image loading
2008-01-03 00:11 < Random832> they wouldn't all fit on one page
2008-01-03 00:11 < Random832> (there's a limit to the total size of templates that can go on one page)
2008-01-03 00:11 < unforgettableid> Random832: a limit? why?
2008-01-03 00:11 < Random832> to prevent infinite loops i guess
2008-01-03 00:11 < Leslie_S> hmm, interesting
2008-01-03 00:11 < Random832> ask a dev
2008-01-03 00:11 < Leslie_S> apparently theres a loophole that allows objects to move faster than light!
2008-01-03 00:12 < Random832> Leslie_S: yes, you just have to be going backwards in time
2008-01-03 00:12 < FastLizard4> Leslie_S: Einstein disagrees with you
2008-01-03 00:12 < Leslie_S> Random832, thats not what i found.
2008-01-03 00:12 < Random832> what is this loophole?
2008-01-03 00:12 < Leslie_S> FastLizard4, actually he doesnt.
2008-01-03 00:12 < Leslie_S> the loophole is that certain regions of space time can move faster than light in relation o other regions of space time.
2008-01-03 00:13 < Leslie_S> and if youre in that area of space time and not moving, youre going faster than light when viewed from the other area.
2008-01-03 00:13 < Leslie_S> but youre really not
2008-01-03 00:13 < FastLizard4> Leslie_S: General relativity states that the natural top speed of anything is the the speed of light, regardless of the local space. You are still moving the speed of light or slower.
2008-01-03 00:13 < Leslie_S> this supposedly happens around rotating black holes
2008-01-03 00:13 < Leslie_S> see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Ergosphere
2008-01-03 00:13 < FastLizard4> hmm...
2008-01-03 00:13 < Leslie_S> FastLizard4, this loophole doesnt involve actually exceeding the speed of light
2008-01-03 00:13 < FastLizard4> bah, quantum mechanics
2008-01-03 00:14 < Leslie_S> FastLizard4, you arent moving at all. but the space time youre in is being dragged by a rotating black hole, faster than the speed of light.
2008-01-03 00:14 < Leslie_S> FastLizard4, the only issue is that you wouldnt actually go anywhere, because youre in orbit...
2008-01-03 00:14 < FastLizard4> Leslie_S: True
2008-01-03 00:15 < Leslie_S> but if it was actually possible to use this for something (like, if it wasnt for the fact that black holes are ridiculously far away), i suppose you could sit on the edge of the ergosphere, then fire a powerful booster towards the black hole, to propel yourself away.
2008-01-03 00:16 < Leslie_S> and then wouldnt that put you out of the ergosphere at a speed lower than light, but still ridiculously fast/
2008-01-03 00:17 < Leslie_S> kinda like the slingshot effect they use for launching spacecraft from earth....they slingshot it around the earth to accelerate it :P
2008-01-03 00:17 < Random832> I think they used that in star trek once to go back in time, didn't they?
2008-01-03 00:17 < bainer> they used the sun for that
2008-01-03 00:17 < Leslie_S> Random832, i dont care much about star trek though.
2008-01-03 00:17 < kenlyric> they don't slingshot around the earth, OK?
2008-01-03 00:17 < Leslie_S> bainer, black holes used to be suns
2008-01-03 00:17 < kenlyric> they launch from the earth.
2008-01-03 00:17 < kenlyric> they slingshot around other bodies.
2008-01-03 00:18 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, they slingshot around earth too. like apollo.
2008-01-03 00:18 < bainer> Leslie_S: I'd better be more precise then :) they used Sol for that
2008-01-03 00:18 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, a few unmanned missions have done the same thing.
2008-01-03 00:19 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, and wasnt it cassini that used the ridiculously complicated thing where they launched, and then slingshotted around like three planets?
2008-01-03 00:19 < Sanchom> what do you think about the Template:Prod-2
2008-01-03 00:19 < bainer> Cassini did something like two slingshots past Earth, and one past Mars
2008-01-03 00:19 < kenlyric> but, they never once got on to travel through time.
2008-01-03 00:19 < kenlyric> *one
2008-01-03 00:20 < Leslie_S> bainer, that sounds about right.
2008-01-03 00:20 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, white holes are an interesting thought for time travel.
2008-01-03 00:21 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, since we cant know whats inside a black hole, whats to keep it from containing a worm hole leading to a white hole, which could be....anywhere?
2008-01-03 00:21 < bainer> actually it was two of Venus and one of Earth
2008-01-03 00:21 < kenlyric> nothing?
2008-01-03 00:21 < Leslie_S> maybe theres an alternate universe where they have white holes and not black holes
2008-01-03 00:21 < Leslie_S> (but then you couldnt get back!)
2008-01-03 00:22 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, exactly.
2008-01-03 00:22 < kenlyric> so you wouldn't really travel through time
2008-01-03 00:22 < kenlyric> you'd just travel to a different time
2008-01-03 00:22 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, maybe theres just a giant ass time machine right past the event horizon
2008-01-03 00:22 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, anyway, i will not be volunteering for this mission.
2008-01-03 00:24 < kenlyric> it'd really be more interesting to send data through such a wormhole rather than a person.
2008-01-03 00:25 < Leslie_S> Even if this escape route is possible, it is unlikely to be useful because a spacecraft which followed that path would probably be distorted beyond recognition by spaghettification.
2008-01-03 00:25 < FastLizard4> kenlyric: Who'd receive it?
2008-01-03 00:25 < Leslie_S> ROFL ROFL ROFL
2008-01-03 00:25 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, that would be AWESOME.
2008-01-03 00:25 < Leslie_S> just toss an unsecured wifi router into it
2008-01-03 00:26 < Leslie_S> or, right next to it rather.
2008-01-03 00:26 < Leslie_S> and watch the aliens hack the network
2008-01-03 00:26 < Leslie_S> i wish i could draw. then i'd draw a picture of some aliens next to a white hole, with laptops and cantennas...
2008-01-03 00:28 < kenlyric> FastLizard4: well, some very shocked people, I would think.
2008-01-03 00:28 < FastLizard4> Well, good night people, I have to go to bed so I won't be tired when I get all four of my wisdom teeth pulled
2008-01-03 00:28 < FastLizard4> However, I should be back on IRC tommorrow
2008-01-03 00:30 < nicholast> Leslie_S: sounds akin to an Internet version of Plan 9 from Outer Space
2008-01-03 00:30 < kenlyric> Leslie_S: you know, if a while hole theory is true, then any light which falls into a black hole would naturally come out the other end... though with parity checking like TCP packets have, it might be impossible to put together again.
2008-01-03 00:31 < nicholast> I propose pink holes
2008-01-03 00:31 < Undeference> why would you care if you are tired when getting teeth pulled?
2008-01-03 00:31 < nicholast> Undeference: because of the anaesthaesia
2008-01-03 00:31 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, the only issue is that the aliens wouldnt be able to connect if they cant transmit signals to the router.
2008-01-03 00:31 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, youd have to have a two directional blackhole...
2008-01-03 00:31 < Leslie_S> heh
2008-01-03 00:32 < Leslie_S> An observer on the falling object would continue to see objects outside the event horizon, blue-shifted or red-shifted depending on the falling object's trajectory. Objects closer to the singularity aren't seen, as all paths light could take from objects farther in point inwards towards the singularity.
2008-01-03 00:32 < Leslie_S> you know, ive never thought about that before.
2008-01-03 00:32 < Leslie_S> that sounds really really scary
2008-01-03 00:32 < kenlyric> bad for objects
2008-01-03 00:32 < Leslie_S> you wouldnt be able to see the singularity coming, you'd never know how long until you hit it.
2008-01-03 00:32 < kenlyric> be not so bad for light.
2008-01-03 00:32 < Leslie_S> oh wait, wouldnt spaghettification kill you?
2008-01-03 00:32 < kenlyric> Leslie_S: no.
2008-01-03 00:32 < kenlyric> time would stop for you before that.
2008-01-03 00:33 < kenlyric> actually, you'd probably just be crushed by gravity.
2008-01-03 00:33 < Leslie_S> kenlyric, the time dilation is for outside observers though
2008-01-03 00:33 < kenlyric> long before time stopped
2008-01-03 00:37 < Schroeder> Woman, you know ya woman, you gotta be woman, I got the feelin' of love
2008-01-03 00:37 < Schroeder> When ya, ya talkin' to me, ya see right through me, I got the feelin' of love
2008-01-03 00:38 * Mike_H NP: John Lennon - Woman (1981)
2008-01-03 00:41 < Schroeder> and it's a long way to Richmond rollin' up on 95
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> G N A A
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> Spreading the gay nigger
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> seed across the world.
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> (c) GNAA and SCO / Linux
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> G N A A
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> Spreading the gay nigger
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> seed across the world.
2008-01-03 00:44 < kardus> (c) GNAA and SCO / Linux
2008-01-03 00:44 < Warpath> !op
2008-01-03 00:44 < Warpath> John777,
2008-01-03 00:44 < Warpath> JohnReaves, !! *
2008-01-03 00:44 < FrancoGG> let's see if he comes back
2008-01-03 00:45 < Warpath> just ban the host :|
2008-01-03 00:45 < Warpath> FrancoGG, [[WP:Dont Feed the Troll]] :|
2008-01-03 00:46 < FrancoGG> I'm not feeding, but I don't see the point in banning a vhost if the guy is not even here, and doesn't seem like coming back
2008-01-03 00:46 * Warpath reiterates..useless ops ;S
2008-01-03 00:46 < Schroeder> Rumor spreadin' 'round
2008-01-03 00:46 < inaki> i lol'd
2008-01-03 00:46 < Schroeder> 'Bout that Texas town
2008-01-03 00:46 < Schroeder> ZZ TOP FOR LULZ!
2008-01-03 00:46 < FrancoGG> omg he lol'd!
2008-01-03 00:48 < Rinn> GNAA is still active?
2008-01-03 00:48 < Rinn> I thought they cut it out awhile ago.
2008-01-03 00:49 < Mike_H> Tonight: Mainly clear. Hard freeze expected. Low 19F. Winds N at 15 to 25 mph.
2008-01-03 00:51 < Schroeder> hell, it was 19 here 45 minutes ago
2008-01-03 00:51 < Mike_H> Schroeder: This is for central Florida.
2008-01-03 00:51 < Tony_Sidaway> 19F sounds really low. About minus 7 or something?
2008-01-03 00:51 < Mike_H> yeah, minus 7
2008-01-03 00:51 < Schroeder> Mike_H: you're. shitting. me.
2008-01-03 00:51 < Mike_H> Schroeder: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Arctic_air_brings_coldest_night_for_Florida_in_five_years
2008-01-03 00:51 < Mark_Away> it's 43C outside my back door.
2008-01-03 00:51 * Mark_Away bitches
2008-01-03 00:51 < Tony_Sidaway> We've got a few draughts here but no frost to speak of yet.
2008-01-03 00:52 < Mike_H> Tonight, a wide swath of Florida is forecast to encounter a hard freeze, in which temperatures drop below 26 degrees Fahrenheit (-3 degrees Celsius) for a period of eight hours or more. The hard freeze is expected for all of northern Florida and sections of interior central Florida, including the vital Florida Heartland, where the majority of Florida's orange and strawberry crops are grown.
2008-01-03 00:52 < Tony_Sidaway> Mark_Away: try turning the country up the other way.
2008-01-03 00:52 < JohnReaves> Hi Warpath
2008-01-03 00:52 < JohnReaves> oh, you weren't saying hi
2008-01-03 00:53 < Mark_Away> Tony_Sidaway: I could do with some gloomy english weather right about now
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mike_H> I could do with not having FROSTBITE IN FLORIDA
2008-01-03 00:54 < Tony_Sidaway> It's going to freeze your nadgers off, Mike_H
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mark_Away> Mike_H: what do they grow in Florida? pineapples?
2008-01-03 00:54 < Warpath> 'lo JohnReaves
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mike_H> Mark_Away: Oranges
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mike_H> strawberries
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mark_Away> oh wait. it's right there. ignore me
2008-01-03 00:54 < Mark_Away> lol
2008-01-03 00:54 < Warpath> John777 change your name.. :P
2008-01-03 00:55 * Mark_Away needs to learn to read
2008-01-03 00:55 * Warpath ignore Mark_Away
2008-01-03 00:55 < uberpenguin> Mike_H: how was your weather two weeks ago?
2008-01-03 00:55 < uberpenguin> it was in the seventies here... ridiculous
2008-01-03 00:55 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: The high was 96
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> er
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> 86
2008-01-03 00:56 < JohnReaves> Mike_H: It's 13 here, stop whining
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> JohnReaves: Right now it is 24 here
2008-01-03 00:56 < uberpenguin> whew
2008-01-03 00:56 < uberpenguin> 21 here, mike
2008-01-03 00:56 < Schroeder> it's 10 here
2008-01-03 00:56 < Schroeder> southwest Indiana ftw
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: It's 30 right now in MIAMI
2008-01-03 00:56 < Random832> 10 here, Indianapolis
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> and Miami gets freezing temperatures like
2008-01-03 00:56 < Mike_H> once a decade
2008-01-03 00:56 < JohnReaves> Schroeder wins!
2008-01-03 00:56 < uberpenguin> mm hm
2008-01-03 00:56 < Random832> it didn't get above freezing today
2008-01-03 00:56 < Schroeder> you know
2008-01-03 00:56 < Schroeder> there are a disproportionate number of Hoosiers here
2008-01-03 00:57 < Random832> Schroeder: what's disproportionate?
2008-01-03 00:57 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: The high today barely made it to 50.
2008-01-03 00:57 < Random832> I count two so far, in a channel with 206 people and/or bots
2008-01-03 00:57 < Schroeder> myself, Random832, NotACow, kmccoy, etc.
2008-01-03 00:57 < Random832> NotACow is from Illinois, isn't she?
2008-01-03 00:58 < Schroeder> there are at least three or four others I know of but whose names I can't remember
2008-01-03 00:58 < Mike_H> kmccoy is from Minnesota.
2008-01-03 00:58 < Schroeder> she's originally from Indiana
2008-01-03 00:58 < Schroeder> really?
2008-01-03 00:58 < Schroeder> shit
2008-01-03 00:58 < Random832> where in indiana? northwest hardly counts
2008-01-03 00:58 < Mark_Away> was Captain Janeway from Indiana or Montana?
2008-01-03 00:59 < Schroeder> But try to make it happen
2008-01-03 00:59 < Schroeder> Try to work it out
2008-01-03 00:59 < uberpenguin> Mike_H: I didn't get out today... I'm basking in the glory of being between semesters
2008-01-03 01:00 < Schroeder> Just stick around, you're down for the final count
2008-01-03 01:00 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: The entire state is under a wind chill advisory
2008-01-03 01:00 < Mike_H> like 99.5% of the state
2008-01-03 01:00 < Mike_H> only the lower Keys are not under a wind chill advisory
2008-01-03 01:01 < Mike_H> (the upper Keys are)
2008-01-03 01:01 < uberpenguin> what does that mean? "don't go out in your floral tee and shorts"?
2008-01-03 01:01 < Mike_H> They've forecast a wind chill before dawn for us at 9 to 14 above.
2008-01-03 01:02 < uberpenguin> hm... I should call my grandparents in panama city beach to see how they are doing...
2008-01-03 01:02 < Mike_H> Panama City Beach is warmer than us tonight
2008-01-03 01:03 < Mike_H> maybe because I live inland
2008-01-03 01:03 < Mike_H> Tonight: Mainly clear. Hard freeze expected. Low around 25F. Winds N at 10 to 20 mph.
2008-01-03 01:05 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: Atlanta set a record today
2008-01-03 01:05 < Mike_H> lowest high temperature in ten years
2008-01-03 01:05 < uberpenguin> hooray
2008-01-03 01:05 < Mike_H> it only went to 30 degrees in downtown, the last time it was that cold was in January 1997
2008-01-03 01:05 < uberpenguin> and thank goodness I wasn't out in it
2008-01-03 01:06 < Mike_H> uberpenguin: The coldest part of Florida should be in the lower teens tonight. We won't be setting a record low for the state tonight, but we're about 15 degrees or so away from it
2008-01-03 01:06 < Mike_H> (the record low for the state of Florida being -2)
2008-01-03 01:07 < uberpenguin> cold weather sucks
2008-01-03 01:07 < uberpenguin> it's exactly why I will never live at latitudes higher than north carolina
2008-01-03 01:09 < Mike_H> A cold air mass, dropping high pressure and brisk winds from Canada, has enveloped the entire eastern seaboard of the United States. An unlikely casualty of the frigid temperatures is the state of Florida, which will drop below freezing across nearly the entire peninsula tonight. The widespread advisories and cold air mark the first time a prolonged hard freeze has hit a sizable section of Florida since the winter of 2002-2003.
2008-01-03 01:10 < brianski> anyone know offhand the template for "this page reads like PR and should be re-written from a more neutral point of view" ?
2008-01-03 01:10 < uberpenguin> ho ha... some little tweaks in speaker positions sure makes a big difference in my theater... this is why it's good to have a friend with bionic hearing
2008-01-03 01:10 < MUNCHLAX> {{NPOV}}
2008-01-03 01:11 < brianski> MUNCHLAX: i think there's a more specific one
2008-01-03 01:11 < brianski> but i guess NPOV works
2008-01-03 01:11 < MUNCHLAX> so find it
2008-01-03 01:12 * Schroeder hereby declares that all the world's hot chicks must show him their boobs
2008-01-03 01:12 < Warpath> Schroeder, they rather chop it off :S
2008-01-03 01:14 < Schroeder> MILITARY PISS-ME-OFFS: misspelling "ordnance" as "ordinance" and misspelling "cavalry" as "calvary"
2008-01-03 01:14 < uberpenguin> hm... I wonder if pratt whitney engines are still sold under that name...
2008-01-03 01:16 < uberpenguin> yes
2008-01-03 01:24 < ggreer> turbine engines are cool. I wish they powered more land vehicles
2008-01-03 01:25 < ancjr> no torque
2008-01-03 01:26 < ancjr> maybe, just maybe if the turbine turned a generator
2008-01-03 01:26 < ancjr> and the wheelshad mega-torque electric motors
2008-01-03 01:30 < ggreer> yeah but they spin really really fast
2008-01-03 01:30 < ggreer> and the sound is the only thing more awesome than the sound of a turbocharged piston engine
2008-01-03 01:39 < uberpenguin> hm? small gas turbines sound roughly like vacuum cleaners
2008-01-03 01:39 < uberpenguin> I dunno how awesome you consider that...
2008-01-03 01:40 < uberpenguin> anyway, the efficiency is poor at very small scales, so it's not very practical for cars
2008-01-03 01:40 < uberpenguin> though GM did make a prototype years back
2008-01-03 01:40 < jtizzle1854> I have a britannica CD and I am reading and it has an article on wikipedia. Britannica says most of wikipedia's articles are on popular culture? Do y'all agree?
2008-01-03 01:41 < uberpenguin> I'd say it's most heavily edited and extensive articles are on pop culture, yes
2008-01-03 01:43 < ggreer> pfft, practicality
2008-01-03 01:43 < jtizzle1854> britannica probably doesn't care about wikipedia they want to be the best encyclopedia
2008-01-03 01:44 < ggreer> uberpenguin: how small is small?
2008-01-03 01:44 < ggreer> airplane turbines have that cool high-pitched scream
2008-01-03 01:45 < ggreer> that turns into a roar as the throttle goes up
2008-01-03 01:47 < jtizzle1854> how do you know about airplane turbines?
2008-01-03 01:47 < ggreer> I don't know much about them
2008-01-03 01:47 < ggreer> they just sound cool
2008-01-03 01:48 < jtizzle1854> i mean how do you know how they sound?
2008-01-03 01:49 < ggreer> you've never been near jet engines?
2008-01-03 01:50 < jtizzle1854> no
2008-01-03 01:51 < ggreer> oh
2008-01-03 01:51 < ggreer> well my father was in the air force, so I grew up on air force bases
2008-01-03 01:51 < ggreer> with air shows
2008-01-03 01:51 < jtizzle1854> where have you heard them at an airport?
2008-01-03 01:52 < ggreer> well of course. I mean I fly probably.... 6-10 times a year
2008-01-03 01:52 < ggreer> but fighter planes are the best
2008-01-03 01:52 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-03 01:53 < jtizzle1854> what do you mean fighter planes are the best?
2008-01-03 01:53 < jtizzle1854> best in what?
2008-01-03 01:53 < ggreer> they sound the best
2008-01-03 01:53 < ggreer> it's just loud as hell
2008-01-03 01:54 < ggreer> pure broad spectrum noise
2008-01-03 01:54 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-03 01:54 < ggreer> obviously it's impractical
2008-01-03 01:55 < jtizzle1854> I know what a commercial jet sounds like i lived in a norfolk va for a couple years and they used to fly over my house and it was really loud
2008-01-03 01:55 < ggreer> yeah, there's no practical way to put a muffler on a jet
2008-01-03 01:56 < jtizzle1854> is those figher planes even louder?
2008-01-03 01:56 < ggreer> much
2008-01-03 01:57 < uberpenguin> ggreer: well... VERY small... small enough to be appropriate for a car
2008-01-03 01:57 < uberpenguin> which is tiny by jet engine standards
2008-01-03 01:58 < jtizzle1854> figher planes are much smaller than a jet plane aren't they?
2008-01-03 01:58 < jtizzle1854> than a jumbo jet?
2008-01-03 01:58 < ggreer> oh
2008-01-03 01:58 < uberpenguin> let's see.. a typical fighter jet engine puts out around 35k lbf-ft of thrust
2008-01-03 01:58 < uberpenguin> big turbofans can range from 40k-100k lbf-ft thrust
2008-01-03 01:58 < ggreer> and those things spin at what, 50k rpm? 70k?
2008-01-03 01:59 < uberpenguin> depends on the engine, but no, usually not that fast
2008-01-03 01:59 < ggreer> it's probably hard to gear them down to something usable by a drive shaft
2008-01-03 01:59 < jtizzle1854> figher planes are much smaller than a jet plane aren't they?
2008-01-03 01:59 < jtizzle1854> aren't they ggreer?
2008-01-03 01:59 < ggreer> jtizzle1854: yeah
2008-01-03 01:59 < ggreer> but their power/weight ratio is much higher
2008-01-03 02:00 < The359> some military jets have afterburners, and have no noise restrictions
2008-01-03 02:00 < uberpenguin> I think 30k RPM is a little more typical
2008-01-03 02:00 < uberpenguin> ? fighter planes use jet engines... most large airplanes use some type of jet engine
2008-01-03 02:01 < The359> a jet engine is a jet engine?
2008-01-03 02:01 < ggreer> well their bypass ratios are pretty different
2008-01-03 02:02 < uberpenguin> yes
2008-01-03 02:02 < jtizzle1854> a good movie for yo ggreer is Top Gun
2008-01-03 02:02 < jtizzle1854> you
2008-01-03 02:02 < uberpenguin> fighter engines don't really have a bypass ratio... that's more a turbofan thing
2008-01-03 02:02 < ggreer> jtizzle1854: eh
2008-01-03 02:02 < uberpenguin> oh anyway
2008-01-03 02:02 < jtizzle1854> eh?
2008-01-03 02:02 < ggreer> uberpenguin: don't they have really low bypass ratios? like 1.5 or 1.2
2008-01-03 02:02 < uberpenguin> a fairly powerful consumer-grade auto engine might put out... mm... 300-400 lbf-ft torque
2008-01-03 02:03 < uberpenguin> compare to thrust figures earlier and you have a rough idea of scale
2008-01-03 02:03 < ggreer> ok, so scale the things down by a couple orders of magnitude
2008-01-03 02:03 < jtizzle1854> have yo seen top gun ggreer didn't you like it why'd you say eh?
2008-01-03 02:03 < The359> the exhaust of most commercial jets is shrouded to help keep the noise down
2008-01-03 02:03 < ggreer> jtizzle1854: it's not about planes, it's about male bonding
2008-01-03 02:03 < The359> while military jets tend to just have a direct exit
2008-01-03 02:04 < uberpenguin> yeah, ane engine efficiency doesn't typically scale well... different engines work best at different sizes
2008-01-03 02:04 < ggreer> :/
2008-01-03 02:04 < jtizzle1854> ggreer you mean it's kind of gay the movie?
2008-01-03 02:04 < uberpenguin> of course efficiency isn't everything
2008-01-03 02:04 < uberpenguin> jets aren't THAT efficient from a thermodynamic standpoint
2008-01-03 02:05 < ggreer> stupid surface area following the square and volume following the cube
2008-01-03 02:05 < jtizzle1854> ?
2008-01-03 02:05 < uberpenguin> I'm struggling to think of a rough efficiency figure for the Rankine cycle, but it isn't huge... probably a bit more than a typical piston engine
2008-01-03 02:06 < uberpenguin> it's not really that, ggreer, it's just thermodynamics
2008-01-03 02:06 < ggreer> uberpenguin: but turbines are less efficient when they're scaled down
2008-01-03 02:06 < ggreer> right?
2008-01-03 02:06 < uberpenguin> a common theme you find in all engines which involve working fluids (most of them) is that higher compression ratios are typically better... how you practically accomplish that is one scaling problem
2008-01-03 02:07 < uberpenguin> yes, and they aren't extremely powerful in small sizes
2008-01-03 02:07 * brown_cat scratches around for some food
2008-01-03 02:07 < uberpenguin> otto and diesel cycle engines typically do better in those sizes
2008-01-03 02:07 < ggreer> yeah, my car has around an 8.7:1 compression ratio, and I get around 25mpg. the newer miata engine has a higher compression ratio and puts out more horsepower at the same fuel efficiency
2008-01-03 02:08 < ggreer> and they still managed to make it non-interference
2008-01-03 02:08 < uberpenguin> 9 is about the limit with gasoline
2008-01-03 02:08 < ggreer> you can go higher, but then you have to use higher octane fuel
2008-01-03 02:08 < uberpenguin> compress higher than that and you need tetraethyl lead
2008-01-03 02:08 < jtizzle1854> what is the rating for gas fuel for jet engines
2008-01-03 02:08 < jtizzle1854> 110 octane?
2008-01-03 02:09 < jtizzle1854> 120?
2008-01-03 02:09 < uberpenguin> mm... no, 9 is a pretty good rule of thumb for most grades of gas available in the US
2008-01-03 02:09 < uberpenguin> jtizzle1854: jet fuel is kerosene
2008-01-03 02:09 < jtizzle1854> oh
2008-01-03 02:09 < uberpenguin> a less refined product
2008-01-03 02:09 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-03 02:10 < uberpenguin> the compression is very very high in jet engines; it isn't hard to get less volatile fuels to ignite
2008-01-03 02:10 < uberpenguin> same reason diesel engines can use disel fuel
2008-01-03 02:10 < uberpenguin> or vegetable oil, or one of many heavy hydrocarbons
2008-01-03 02:11 < ggreer> honda's B16B engine has a 10.8:1 compression ratio, but it requires 93 octane
2008-01-03 02:12 < ggreer> and puts out a hell of a lot of horsepower for a naturally aspirated 1.6 liter
2008-01-03 02:14 < uberpenguin> you sure that's the actual compression ratio and not some weird hybrid figure of boost and compression?
2008-01-03 02:14 < uberpenguin> you know, TDC volume / BDC volume
2008-01-03 02:14 < ggreer> pretty sure that's the actual compression ratio. it used variable valve timing and some other tricks
2008-01-03 02:14 < ggreer> and put out 185hp
2008-01-03 02:14 < uberpenguin> 'cause 10.8 is really pushing it... there's very little headroom
2008-01-03 02:14 < ggreer> yeah, the engine went in a civic type r
2008-01-03 02:15 < jtizzle1854> what is aspirated mean?
2008-01-03 02:15 < uberpenguin> pity be to the ricers who try to turbocharge that engine
2008-01-03 02:15 < uberpenguin> jtizzle1854: "breathe"
2008-01-03 02:15 < ggreer> haha, yeah
2008-01-03 02:15 < jtizzle1854> breathe?
2008-01-03 02:15 < ggreer> or try to swap heads or pistons for an increased compression ratio
2008-01-03 02:15 < uberpenguin> that's what aspirate means
2008-01-03 02:15 < jtizzle1854> what's that mean for an engine
2008-01-03 02:15 < brown_cat> O_O
2008-01-03 02:15 < ggreer> jtizzle1854: naturally aspirated engines don't have a turbo or supercharger
2008-01-03 02:16 < jtizzle1854> ok
2008-01-03 02:16 < jtizzle1854> or fuel injectors
2008-01-03 02:16 < ggreer> uhh
2008-01-03 02:16 < ggreer> they have fuel injectors
2008-01-03 02:16 < ggreer> unless they're carburated
2008-01-03 02:16 < ancjr> displacement is "swept volume"
2008-01-03 02:16 < ggreer> in which case they're old
2008-01-03 02:16 < uberpenguin> fuel injection has nothing to do with aspiration method
2008-01-03 02:17 < uberpenguin> ancjr: potato potato
2008-01-03 02:17 < ancjr> the amount of air moved in 360 degrees of rotation
2008-01-03 02:17 < uberpenguin> no, that's incorrect
2008-01-03 02:17 < uberpenguin> it's BDC volume / TDC volume
2008-01-03 02:17 < uberpenguin> the "amount of air" is a mass
2008-01-03 02:18 < ggreer> you mean minus?
2008-01-03 02:18 < uberpenguin> compression is a volume ratio... a mass ratio would be nonsensical
2008-01-03 02:18 < uberpenguin> ggreer: no, divided by
2008-01-03 02:18 < ggreer> oh yeah, compression ratio
2008-01-03 02:18 < ggreer> I thought you meant displacement
2008-01-03 02:18 < uberpenguin> minus would be useless
2008-01-03 02:18 < ancjr> compression and displacement are two almost unrelated values
2008-01-03 02:18 < ggreer> as in the volume of the cylinder at BDC - volume at TDC
2008-01-03 02:19 < uberpenguin> yes, sorry, it's late and I'm trying to watch three things at once
2008-01-03 02:19 < ggreer> which is just calculated swept volume
2008-01-03 02:19 < uberpenguin> it's not mass, though... that's all I was getting at
2008-01-03 02:19 < ancjr> no one said anything about mass bu you
2008-01-03 02:19 < uberpenguin> you said "amount of air"
2008-01-03 02:19 < ancjr> amount can be a volume or a mass
2008-01-03 02:19 < uberpenguin> the word "amount" only makes sense as a mass, not as a volume
2008-01-03 02:20 < uberpenguin> that would be extremely sloppy usage
2008-01-03 02:20 < ancjr> oh, ok
2008-01-03 02:20 < uberpenguin> air is a highly compressible fluid
2008-01-03 02:20 < uberpenguin> if we were talking about hydraulic oil the distinction might be a little more pedantic
2008-01-03 02:20 < ancjr> yes, thats why you'd take the volume at current ambient temp & pressure as being the base metric
2008-01-03 02:21 < uberpenguin> it doesn't matter, since displacement and compression ratios both deal with volumes not masses
2008-01-03 02:21 < uberpenguin> an engine is a control volume; and when it's running it's in SSSF
2008-01-03 02:21 < ancjr> ok, if you want to use mass we'll use mass
2008-01-03 02:22 < uberpenguin> ... I think I've confused you... nevermind
2008-01-03 02:22 < ancjr> :)
2008-01-03 02:24 < uberpenguin> ask yourself sometime what the purpose of tetraethyl lead was as a fuel additive in gasoline :)
2008-01-03 02:24 < bumm13> howdy uberpenguin
2008-01-03 02:24 < uberpenguin> hey bumm13
2008-01-03 02:25 < ancjr> i've actually used 2 cycle oil to *lower* octane before
2008-01-03 02:25 < uberpenguin> octane is a weird rating
2008-01-03 02:25 < uberpenguin> you'd think it would just be a simple ratio of isooctane mass content to n-heptane and other hydrocarbon content
2008-01-03 02:25 < uberpenguin> but it's stranger than that
2008-01-03 02:26 < ancjr> it's measured several ways
2008-01-03 02:26 < ancjr> the "knock" test is what the pumps list
2008-01-03 02:26 < ancjr> in the US
2008-01-03 02:26 < uberpenguin> I know, and it's a weird measure
2008-01-03 02:27 * The359 likes his fuel Sunoco 112 or higher
2008-01-03 02:27 < ancjr> but with a very low copmpression engine, you can get a little boosy by "lowering" the "knock resistance" of the fuel
2008-01-03 02:27 < ancjr> sorry, my keyboard is falling apart :)
2008-01-03 02:31 < uberpenguin> strange that 2 cycle oil would have that effect since it should have a higher autoignition pressure than the lighter hydrocarbons
2008-01-03 02:31 < ancjr> but a higher compression engine achives greater efficiency than a lower compression engine, all other factors being equal
2008-01-03 02:31 < bumm13> The359: ain't no Sunoco stations this far west ;)
2008-01-03 02:31 < ancjr> below the pressure where pinging occurs
2008-01-03 02:31 < uberpenguin> of course... diesel figured that out a hundred years ago
2008-01-03 02:32 < The359> There are if you go to the right place for 112
2008-01-03 02:32 * bumm13 is constantly amazed by uberpenguin's physics and chemistry knowledge
2008-01-03 02:32 < uberpenguin> of course, it's not just thermodynamic efficiency that you care about
2008-01-03 02:32 < uberpenguin> in fact, Diesel wanted to try and build the most efficient engine possible, but his financial backers wanted a higher power-to-weight ratio
2008-01-03 02:32 < uberpenguin> which are conflicting goals
2008-01-03 02:32 < The359> Sunoco sells it at any major race track ;)
2008-01-03 02:32 < bumm13> The359: I mean there is no Sunoco presence here
2008-01-03 02:33 < The359> Even there
2008-01-03 02:33 < bumm13> we don't have any!
2008-01-03 02:33 < bumm13> :x
2008-01-03 02:33 < bumm13> except for drag racing
2008-01-03 02:33 < The359> you would at any major oval
2008-01-03 02:33 < ancjr> there's also more energy in a gallon of diesel vs. a gallon of gasoline
2008-01-03 02:34 < bumm13> our only open-wheel race is a grand prix-style street course
2008-01-03 02:34 < bumm13> in Portland (Champ Car series)
2008-01-03 02:34 < ancjr> is it roughtly proportionate with its difference in mass per galon?
2008-01-03 02:34 < The359> that's not a street course?
2008-01-03 02:34 * ancjr doesn't know
2008-01-03 02:34 < bumm13> Portland's Champ Car race is a street course
2008-01-03 02:34 < The359> road course
2008-01-03 02:34 < uberpenguin> yes, but the amount of chemical energy in a mass of fuel isn't relevant if you can't extract all of it
2008-01-03 02:34 < The359> street course is a course on public roads
2008-01-03 02:35 < bumm13> well, these are closed off for the race ;)
2008-01-03 02:35 < uberpenguin> anyway, diesels are more thermodynamically efficient, but also important is that the diesel cycle also affords better power-to-weight ratios if you sacrifice some efficiency by playing with the cycle cutoff ratio
2008-01-03 02:35 < bumm13> so whatever that's called
2008-01-03 02:36 < The359> I don't think the course is public
2008-01-03 02:36 < bumm13> the Pacific Northwest is highly-devoid of major races :x
2008-01-03 02:36 < The359> http://www.portlandraceway.com/graphics/SmallMap1.gif
2008-01-03 02:36 < The359> erm
2008-01-03 02:36 < The359> http://www.portlandraceway.com/graphics/BigMap1.gif
2008-01-03 02:36 < uberpenguin> bumm13: I actually don't know a single thing about chemistry
2008-01-03 02:36 < uberpenguin> other than which metalorganic species will kill you
2008-01-03 02:37 < uberpenguin> (hint: all of them)
2008-01-03 02:37 < The359> there's some access roads connected to the front stretch, but that is for the drag strip
2008-01-03 02:37 < ancjr> i know more about making mead - the more a gallon of honey weghs, the more sugar (energy) it contains for the yeast
2008-01-03 02:37 < ggreer> methylmercury ftw
2008-01-03 02:37 < bumm13> anyway, [[Grand Prix of Portland]] for "expert" information ;)
2008-01-03 02:37 < bumm13> hiya ggreer
2008-01-03 02:37 < The359> [[Portland International Raceway]]
2008-01-03 02:37 < uberpenguin> chemistry is something I failed gloriously at because I have neither the desire nor the ability to memorize endless lists of seemingly arbitrary facts
2008-01-03 02:37 * The359 knows PIR and has seen it many times
2008-01-03 02:38 < uberpenguin> intro chemistry is a hell of a lot of arbitrary memorization, and my mind doesn't work that way
2008-01-03 02:38 < ggreer> actually methyl mercury scares the crap out of me. I mean someone could just put that stuff in the water sprayers at a football game and kill tons of people 6 months later
2008-01-03 02:38 < ggreer> hey bumm13
2008-01-03 02:38 < ancjr> i like girls
2008-01-03 02:38 < ancjr> and mead
2008-01-03 02:38 < ancjr> what college courses should i take?
2008-01-03 02:38 < uberpenguin> physics, on the other hand, makes good sense... one thing follows from another, so I get along with it much better
2008-01-03 02:38 < ggreer> take critical thinking and logic
2008-01-03 02:38 < uberpenguin> underwater basket weaving?
2008-01-03 02:39 * Lycurgus found mead something of a disappointment. Just a fruit wine. I was expecting something like Drambuie.
2008-01-03 02:39 < bumm13> The359 - :P
2008-01-03 02:39 < bumm13> gah, that fucking image bot again!
2008-01-03 02:39 < ancjr> Lycurgus: all i can say is to try a properly made & aged mead - which is not currently commercially avilable that i'm aware of
2008-01-03 02:39 < uberpenguin> take some courses on fluid dynamics
2008-01-03 02:39 < uberpenguin> that's an amazing computational problem
2008-01-03 02:40 < uberpenguin> and an important one
2008-01-03 02:40 < uberpenguin> hint: modern engines aren't designed using isentropic analyses :)
2008-01-03 02:40 < ancjr> it should be clear and taste like comb honey
2008-01-03 02:41 < ancjr> no filtration needed
2008-01-03 02:41 < ancjr> nor adjuncts
2008-01-03 02:41 < uberpenguin> http://www.taftan.com/thermodynamics/DIESEL.HTM << ideal diesel cycle
2008-01-03 02:42 < Lycurgus> "Commercial Mead" maybe that will be Xemacs 21.4.22
2008-01-03 02:43 < uberpenguin> http://www.taftan.com/thermodynamics/BRAYTON.HTM << jet engine cycle
2008-01-03 02:43 < bumm13> I love how Wikipedia lets random dumbasses write malicious bots ;p
2008-01-03 02:43 < Lycurgus> or maybe the bird in the bush will be sour grapes
2008-01-03 02:43 < uberpenguin> fun fact, James Joule came up with that cycle many moons before Brayton
2008-01-03 02:43 < uberpenguin> but he applied it to a piston engine, not a turbine
2008-01-03 02:44 < uberpenguin> his engine was rather odd... it was an air engine proposed as an alternative to steam engines
2008-01-03 02:46 < uberpenguin> never try to read scientific papers from Joule's day
2008-01-03 02:46 < uberpenguin> in the Dark Ages of Science, everybody used bizarre incomprehensible units of measure
2008-01-03 02:46 < bumm13> heh
2008-01-03 02:46 < uberpenguin> it takes forever to sort out what exactly they are talking about
2008-01-03 02:47 < uberpenguin> grains, pounds mass avoirdupois, pounds mass troy, the various pound-force measures, the interchangability of the terms "weight" and "mass"
2008-01-03 02:47 < uberpenguin> not to mention the fact that in Joule's day they were just figuring out the mechanical equivalence of heat and therefore didn't really have a unit for it
2008-01-03 02:48 < uberpenguin> so you see great things like "the amount of heat necessary to raise 1 lb avoirdupois of water 1 degree fahrenheit"
2008-01-03 02:48 < uberpenguin> which is basically the definition of a BTU, but of course the heat capacity of water isn't constant with pressure so even that's a pretty nebulous figure
2008-01-03 02:49 < bumm13> nebuloustica!
2008-01-03 02:50 < uberpenguin> on the other hand, their command of the english language is far more advanced than that of today's typical scientific author, so they're at least fun to read
2008-01-03 02:54 < uberpenguin> oh, bumm13 ... picture for you: http://mattb.alwayssleeping.com/images/dsc_0869.jpg
2008-01-03 02:54 < uberpenguin> I took that two weeks ago
2008-01-03 02:56 < ancjr> uberpenguin: do you know much about stirling cycle engines?
2008-01-03 02:56 < uberpenguin> I know what the stirling cycle is... it's not extremely different from the joule cycle
2008-01-03 02:58 < uberpenguin> I also know that if you find the wikipedia page on the stirling engine you'll be greeted by a very suggestive looking illustration
2008-01-03 02:59 < ancjr> oh, nice
2008-01-03 03:02 < uberpenguin> what do you want to know?
2008-01-03 03:05 < ocee> i'd like to know how a penguin has internet access