freenode #wikipedia

2008-01-02 09:03 < Nathyn> OK.
2008-01-02 09:03 < bumm13> Nathyn: "good" or "bad" are moralistic descriptors
2008-01-02 09:03 < Cyrius> you are placing far too much importance on policy
2008-01-02 09:03 < bumm13> and yes, WP has policy
2008-01-02 09:03 < Cyrius> policy exists to better Wikipedia; Wikipedia does not exist to follow policy
2008-01-02 09:04 < Nathyn> Cyrius and Aqwis2, your names sound familiar, so I'm just going to throw this question out there: You wouldn't happen to be editors at Anarchopedia, would you?
2008-01-02 09:04 < Cyrius> and "policy" just means "some people got together and wrote these rules down, and nobody yelled at them"
2008-01-02 09:04 < Aqwis2> of course not
2008-01-02 09:04 < Nathyn> LOL, OK.
2008-01-02 09:04 < Cyrius> I don't even know where anarchopedia is
2008-01-02 09:04 < Nathyn> Disgruntled Anarchist Wikipedians.
2008-01-02 09:04 * Cyrius has been on Wikipedia for...a long time?
2008-01-02 09:04 * Cyrius can't even remember
2008-01-02 09:05 < Cyrius> 4 years?
2008-01-02 09:05 < Nathyn> I've used it for a couple years. I wish I'd kept my original account, so I could prove it.
2008-01-02 09:05 < Nathyn> Jesus Christ, this is the third time I see a list of cities in Special:Random, lol
2008-01-02 09:05 < Nathyn> WTF
2008-01-02 09:06 < bumm13> we don't really care that you hit city articles using Special:Random
2008-01-02 09:06 < Cyrius> meh, you never used [[special:random]] in 2004
2008-01-02 09:06 < Cyrius> when rambot was still 20% of the encyclopedia
2008-01-02 09:06 < Nathyn> I just didn't realize that 90% of wikipedia articles were stubs about backwater villages in the woods.
2008-01-02 09:07 < Aqwis2> they aren't, and why would it matter if they were?
2008-01-02 09:07 < bumm13> 90% ? based on what data?
2008-01-02 09:07 < Cyrius> the solution is to write more articles about other things
2008-01-02 09:07 < Cyrius> a lot of our articles are about trivial subspecies of obscure insects
2008-01-02 09:07 < bumm13> which I don't care about :)
2008-01-02 09:07 < Cyrius> yes =)
2008-01-02 09:08 < Cyrius> or unusual kinds of rocks
2008-01-02 09:08 < Cyrius> or obscure court cases
2008-01-02 09:08 < bjweeks> where is that joke image of wikipedia's contents?
2008-01-02 09:08 < Cyrius> or distant stars
2008-01-02 09:08 < Nathyn> AFK for a moment, doing some editing.
2008-01-02 09:08 < Cyrius> there just aren't that many "important" things out there
2008-01-02 09:09 < Aqwis2> if we were to only include the "important" stuff, we'd be Britannica
2008-01-02 09:09 < Aqwis2> just more unreliable
2008-01-02 09:09 < Nathyn> Hey, do you guys consider this a reliable source?
2008-01-02 09:09 < Nathyn> http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4280.html
2008-01-02 09:09 < Aqwis2> no
2008-01-02 09:09 < bjweeks> uh, o
2008-01-02 09:09 < bjweeks> no*
2008-01-02 09:09 < Nathyn> Didn't think so.
2008-01-02 09:09 < Nathyn> I'm asking because I need to fix cannabis-related articles.
2008-01-02 09:09 < Nathyn> A bunch of stoners have been screwing them up.
2008-01-02 09:10 < Nathyn> Take a look.
2008-01-02 09:10 < Nathyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Cannabis_resources
2008-01-02 09:10 < bjweeks> it isn't even a link
2008-01-02 09:11 < Cyrius> drug trivia, now there's something I don't give a crap about
2008-01-02 09:11 < OverlordQ> lol
2008-01-02 09:11 < bjweeks> Cyrius: Did you know that Jimbo smokes weed?
2008-01-02 09:11 < Nathyn> A lot of that crap is original research.
2008-01-02 09:11 < Lycurgus> duh, doesn't everybody except the squares?
2008-01-02 09:14 < Lycurgus> it must be somebodies intent (that everybody smoke pot) otherwise they'd legalize and it would fall back like booze did after prohibition was lifted
2008-01-02 09:25 < Drunken_Idiot> wimt: Hugs
2008-01-02 09:25 < wimt> Hey Drunken_Idiot :-)
2008-01-02 09:27 < Nathyn> Hey, does anyone here have an account with Oxford English Dictionary?
2008-01-02 09:29 < Lycurgus> most people just have a hardcopy of OED, usually the compact edition
2008-01-02 09:30 < Lycurgus> SFAIK there's no such thing as online OED, could be wrong though
2008-01-02 09:31 < Nathyn> There is.
2008-01-02 09:31 < Lycurgus> not for retail accounts anyway
2008-01-02 09:31 < Nathyn> http://www.oed.com/
2008-01-02 09:31 < Nathyn> Lycurgus, do you have a copy of the OED?
2008-01-02 09:31 < Lycurgus> of course
2008-01-02 09:31 < Nathyn> I need to verify a source about "Acapulco Gold."
2008-01-02 09:32 < Lycurgus> ok, but before I answer, may I ask how old you are?
2008-01-02 09:33 < Lycurgus> we have people here as young as 13 or 14 so don't be shy
2008-01-02 09:41 < Karl1263|afk> bonjour à tous
2008-01-02 09:42 < Karl1263> [[Image:NF Promo.jpg]]
2008-01-02 09:42 < Karl1263> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:NF_Promo.jpg
2008-01-02 09:42 < Nathyn> Hey, question for the room: Under what conditions should "Libertarianism" be capitalized?
2008-01-02 09:42 < Karl1263> cette image est sur le wikipédia anglais; comment pourrais-je faire pour l'avoir sur wiki fr ?
2008-01-02 09:43 < Lycurgus> karl: try #wikipedia-fr
2008-01-02 09:43 < Karl1263> oh sorry
2008-01-02 09:43 < Karl1263> thansk
2008-01-02 09:43 < Karl1263> thanks
2008-01-02 09:45 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-02 09:52 < sunderland2006> hello
2008-01-02 09:52 < ChemicalBit> hello
2008-01-02 09:53 < sunderland2006> hi ChemicalBit
2008-01-02 09:53 * TheWeasel reads "and if they haven't died yet, they're probably still alive"
2008-01-02 09:53 < TheWeasel> That's an extraordinary bit of doubt
2008-01-02 09:53 < TheWeasel> Or maybe the fairytale was about Schrodinger's Cat
2008-01-02 09:53 < TheWeasel> s
2008-01-02 09:54 < Drunken_Idiot> Fabexplosive: Hi
2008-01-02 09:54 < Drunken_Idiot> TheWeasel: Hi
2008-01-02 09:54 < TheWeasel> ello
2008-01-02 09:55 < TheWeasel> nobody discusses the praeter-Cartesian bit of ontological doubt up there?
2008-01-02 09:55 < Drunken_Idiot> Musharaf gonna give a speech in 5 min
2008-01-02 09:56 < Drunken_Idiot> Musharaf gonna give a speech in 5 min
2008-01-02 09:56 < OldakQuill> Anyone familiar with class="sortable wikitable"?
2008-01-02 09:57 * TheWeasel says he'll say they still need him and he can't suffer an election at this time
2008-01-02 09:57 < Lycurgus> DI: will the people rise?
2008-01-02 09:58 < TheWeasel> the sample at "echo" is weird
2008-01-02 09:58 < TheWeasel> the text is "the free inhabitants of each of these states", strikes me as random
2008-01-02 09:58 < Lycurgus> or alternatively, do the people believe him or Al Qaeda responsible for the Bhutto killing
2008-01-02 09:59 < Fabexplosive> hello
2008-01-02 09:59 < Fabexplosive> hi Drunken_Idiot
2008-01-02 09:59 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-02 09:59 * TheWeasel personally believes it was Qaida, really
2008-01-02 10:00 < Sepultura> Hallo
2008-01-02 10:00 < TheWeasel> it makes sense for them to disturb "normal" processes
2008-01-02 10:01 < Lycurgus> a thing making sense and it being the matter fact are far apart
2008-01-02 10:01 < Sepultura> News: Cult Of $cientology loses $39 Million Fraud lawsuit
2008-01-02 10:01 < Lycurgus> of
2008-01-02 10:01 < Cyrius> Sepultura: where?
2008-01-02 10:01 < Drunken_Idiot> Musharaf giving speech.
2008-01-02 10:01 < Fabexplosive> moo NotACow
2008-01-02 10:02 < Sepultura> http://stopscientology.blogspot.com/2008/01/church-of-scientology-loses-39-million.html
2008-01-02 10:03 < Lycurgus> *fact of the matter
2008-01-02 10:03 < Cyrius> Sepultura: amusing
2008-01-02 10:08 < TheWeasel> Who brought the suit?
2008-01-02 10:08 < TheWeasel> anyway
2008-01-02 10:08 < TheWeasel> :-/
2008-01-02 10:09 * TheWeasel doesnt feel like RTFA
2008-01-02 10:11 < OldakQuill> Is there any way to add a class to a column title?
2008-01-02 10:12 < TheWeasel> wow, our article on dikes is pretty slow
2008-01-02 10:13 < TheWeasel> dikes are a religion in northwestern Germany and the northern Netherlands
2008-01-02 10:13 < OverlordQ> ''This is a ridiculous decision,'' said Earle C. Cooley, a, attorney representing the Scientology church. ''The Constitution is in serious trouble in the state of Oregon and we will appeal.''
2008-01-02 10:13 < TheWeasel> slow=short
2008-01-02 10:13 < OverlordQ> aghaghaghagha
2008-01-02 10:13 < TheWeasel> Why does the constitution hate Scientology too much?
2008-01-02 10:14 < TheWeasel> first it hates safety for Americans, now it hates Scientology
2008-01-02 10:15 < Cyrius> =)
2008-01-02 10:15 < Cyrius> I think the argument is that the constitution prohibits punishing Scientology for practicing its sacrament of lying to potential members
2008-01-02 10:16 < Gargantua> Hi
2008-01-02 10:16 < Gargantua> what does "[sic]" mean?
2008-01-02 10:16 < Cyrius> Gargantua: as written in the original, not a typo
2008-01-02 10:16 < OldakQuill> Knowingly misspel
2008-01-02 10:16 < TheWeasel> sic = "this isn't a typo"
2008-01-02 10:16 < Cyrius> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sic
2008-01-02 10:16 < Gargantua> Thanks
2008-01-02 10:17 < TheWeasel> sometimes "sic!" as in "crazy as it seems, this is what this person wrote!"
2008-01-02 10:17 < Cyrius> "It is also sometimes used for comic effect:
2008-01-02 10:17 < Cyrius> The Daily Mail was the first newspaper [sic] Š "
2008-01-02 10:17 * Cyrius coughs =)
2008-01-02 10:17 < TheWeasel> but usually just to avert the impression that the secondary source was at fault
2008-01-02 10:18 < Gargantua> Hi Ray. I think it's sort of ironical [sic] that we ended up like this. I asked for some leniency for my family. Remember? Well, I got none and you'll get none.[3]
2008-01-02 10:18 < Gargantua> ironical... lol..
2008-01-02 10:18 < Aqwis2> ironical isn't a word?
2008-01-02 10:18 < Aqwis2> wait a second
2008-01-02 10:18 < TheWeasel> it's often used for word inventions or rare spellings/versions
2008-01-02 10:20 < Lycurgus> should normaly be translated literally in English as "thus"
2008-01-02 10:20 < TheWeasel> even my smaller dictionary says "ironical" is standard
2008-01-02 10:21 < Lycurgus> touche[sic];
2008-01-02 10:21 < TheWeasel> so this "sic" is snobbery
2008-01-02 10:21 < Simon-> the grammar is wrong for "ironical"
2008-01-02 10:21 < Aqwis2> oh
2008-01-02 10:22 < TheWeasel> what's wrong about the grammar here?
2008-01-02 10:22 < kenlyric> Of the nature of irony or covert sarcasm; meaning the opposite of what is expressed.
2008-01-02 10:22 < Ausir> ironical is just as correct as ironic, only less common
2008-01-02 10:23 < Lycurgus> isn't it ironic? Ironical is incorrect modern usage. Further correct use of the word is a modern shibboleth.
2008-01-02 10:23 < kenlyric> OED for ironical
2008-01-02 10:23 < Gargantua> "This is ironical"
2008-01-02 10:23 < Gargantua> that is incorrect.
2008-01-02 10:23 < TheWeasel> it just sounds bad in short sentences
2008-01-02 10:23 < TheWeasel> it's barely noticeable in longer ones
2008-01-02 10:23 < Aqwis2> http://english-usage-mcallister.blogspot.com/2006/06/ironic-vs-ironical.html
2008-01-02 10:23 < Ausir> it's correct, only not very common
2008-01-02 10:24 < Lycurgus> s/modern/common/
2008-01-02 10:24 < kenlyric> no one would question ironically as the adverb.
2008-01-02 10:24 < Ausir> and ironical is more common in British English than in American English
2008-01-02 10:24 * TheWeasel would also not call it bad style the way this woman (?) used it
2008-01-02 10:24 < Lycurgus> no, not if they were a reasonable erudite native speaker of American English
2008-01-02 10:25 < Aqwis2> also comic vs comical
2008-01-02 10:25 < Aqwis2> etc
2008-01-02 10:25 < TheWeasel> especially in spoken English
2008-01-02 10:25 < Ausir> in American English, ironic is used in all contexts, but in British, both are used
2008-01-02 10:25 * Aqwis2 always writes -al
2008-01-02 10:25 < Nathyn> Hey, I have a question for the room...
2008-01-02 10:25 < Gargantua> ironical just sounds... wrong imo.
2008-01-02 10:25 < TheWeasel> comic and comical are different words
2008-01-02 10:25 < Aqwis2> TheWeasel, appears not
2008-01-02 10:25 < Nathyn> How can I "group" together a set of words, so that they aren't split apart?
2008-01-02 10:25 < TheWeasel> "for comic effect" "a comical scene"
2008-01-02 10:25 < Nathyn> For example... When you put something in pipes, it works like that.
2008-01-02 10:25 < Nathyn> If I do [[Some Thing]], then it will never be "Some" (New Line) "Thing"
2008-01-02 10:26 < Nathyn> I need to do that, but for a set of terms... <SPAN>? <DIV>?
2008-01-02 10:26 < Aqwis2> comical - Obsolete. pertaining to or of the nature of comedy.
2008-01-02 10:26 < Aqwis2> hmm, obsolete
2008-01-02 10:26 < TheWeasel> ...I would never use "comic" in the second case
2008-01-02 10:26 < TheWeasel> obviously back up
2008-01-02 10:26 < kenlyric>  
2008-01-02 10:26 < TheWeasel> ...in popularity
2008-01-02 10:26 < Ausir> "ironical" might be perceived incorrect in American English context, but so would "lorry" instead of "truck"
2008-01-02 10:26 < kenlyric> Nathyn: replace the spaces with  
2008-01-02 10:27 < Nathyn> Ah, OK. Thanks, Ken!
2008-01-02 10:27 < Nathyn> I forgot about that.
2008-01-02 10:27 < Nathyn> Isn't it  
2008-01-02 10:27 < Nathyn> With a semi-colon?
2008-01-02 10:27 < sunderland2006> bye
2008-01-02 10:27 < kenlyric> probably
2008-01-02 10:27 < Nathyn> Thanks!
2008-01-02 10:27 < Ausir> yes
2008-01-02 10:27 < Ausir>  
2008-01-02 10:27 * TheWeasel notices that the semicolon is used far less in written English than in written German
2008-01-02 10:28 < Ausir> nbsp is short for non-breaking space
2008-01-02 10:28 < Kieff> Project Euler is FUN
2008-01-02 10:28 < Lycurgus> it's not valid to attempt to apply the morphology of comic to ironic for the reason mentioned, i.e. there is a special sibboleth about the use of "ironic" which constrains it.
2008-01-02 10:29 < quanticle> Aqwis2: Comical is obsolete?
2008-01-02 10:29 < TheWeasel> But that's style guide dust
2008-01-02 10:29 < Ausir> Lycurgus: what shibboleth?
2008-01-02 10:29 < Aqwis2> only one of its uses, apparently
2008-01-02 10:29 < Aqwis2> i have no idea
2008-01-02 10:29 < Aqwis2> i just looked it up in dictionary.com
2008-01-02 10:29 < TheWeasel> Stigmatizing users of "ironical", obviously
2008-01-02 10:29 < Lycurgus> further English is more Analytic than Synthetic and is notorious for fucking over language lawyers trying to apply simple grammars
2008-01-02 10:30 < Ausir> TheWeasel: only in American English
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> kind of a style guide inside joke
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> "Lisa scored 2,845,770 points; Marcia, 2,312,860; and Sam, 1,726,640."
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> those are some ugly commata right there
2008-01-02 10:30 < quanticle> Aqwis2: You may be right, I think "comic" has replaced "comical" in that usage...
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> Really?
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> there are instances where I would never use "comic"
2008-01-02 10:30 < TheWeasel> maybe because it's the same as the noun
2008-01-02 10:31 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Well English is funny like that. Some of our nouns can also be used as verbs or adjectives.
2008-01-02 10:31 < TheWeasel> yup
2008-01-02 10:31 < quanticle> TheWeasel: I think English is fairly unique in that regard
2008-01-02 10:31 < Lycurgus> [[Shibboleth]]
2008-01-02 10:31 < TheWeasel> hm, most languages have more pronounced verb endings than English I guess
2008-01-02 10:32 < Ausir> in my dictionary, "ironic" and "ironical" are included as just one entry
2008-01-02 10:32 < Ausir> while "comic" and "comical" are separate entries
2008-01-02 10:32 < TheWeasel> my thought exactly
2008-01-02 10:32 < Ausir> (Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English)
2008-01-02 10:32 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Regarding the commas: this is why I like using the point for marking thousands and using the comma to mark decimal points
2008-01-02 10:32 < TheWeasel> Ausir: Maybe just because of the noun thing
2008-01-02 10:32 < Nathyn> Can somebody help me fix this?
2008-01-02 10:32 < Nathyn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Zenwhat/Sandbox
2008-01-02 10:33 < TheWeasel> hah, the Continental way
2008-01-02 10:33 < Ausir> TheWeasel: comic as adjective is a separate entry from comical as adjective AND comic as a noun
2008-01-02 10:33 < TheWeasel> alright
2008-01-02 10:33 < TheWeasel> My thought though
2008-01-02 10:33 < Nathyn> On my screen, without nbsp "Article 29.2" is separated from "Limitations of human rights." With nbsp included, "Limitations of human rights" goes off screen.
2008-01-02 10:33 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Yep. I first learned about it in Spanish class, and only after asking my teacher, "Why are all the numbers strange in our Spanish textbook."
2008-01-02 10:33 < TheWeasel> I think "comic" and "comical" have distinct applications
2008-01-02 10:34 < Ausir> TheWeasel: yes
2008-01-02 10:34 < Ausir> ironic and ironical mean the same in all contexts
2008-01-02 10:34 < Leslie_S> i wonder if i'll be able to get out of my driveway today.
2008-01-02 10:34 < TheWeasel> quanticle: I meant the commas after the names though
2008-01-02 10:34 < Ausir> even if ironical is obsolete in some varieties of English
2008-01-02 10:34 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Where do you live?
2008-01-02 10:34 < TheWeasel> "Marcia, 2,000 points"
2008-01-02 10:34 < Leslie_S> last night when i came in, the bottom of the car was dragging in the snow. this morning, we got several more inches of snow
2008-01-02 10:34 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Approximately
2008-01-02 10:34 < Leslie_S> quanticle, michigan
2008-01-02 10:34 < TheWeasel> thats not a nice comma
2008-01-02 10:34 < TheWeasel> but its just my weird aesthetics
2008-01-02 10:34 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Heh. What kind of car do you drive?
2008-01-02 10:35 < Leslie_S> quanticle, 86 volvo 240DL.....rear wheel drive...
2008-01-02 10:35 < Ausir> The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.
2008-01-02 10:35 < Cometstyles> O_O
2008-01-02 10:35 < Cyrius> I've heard that before
2008-01-02 10:35 < quanticle> Leslie_S: *shudder*
2008-01-02 10:35 < TheWeasel> German is far more prescriptive
2008-01-02 10:35 < Nathyn> Ausir, take the word Pokemon.
2008-01-02 10:35 < Lycurgus> is a cribhouse like a crackhouse?
2008-01-02 10:35 < Leslie_S> Ausir, i agree
2008-01-02 10:35 < TheWeasel> something like spelling reform would be unthinkable in English
2008-01-02 10:35 < Nathyn> Pokemon is a Japanese loanword for "Pocket monsters," which English took back as "Pokemon."
2008-01-02 10:36 < quanticle> Leslie_S: I can't believe that car has survived for 22 years in Michigan weather
2008-01-02 10:36 < Leslie_S> quanticle, it hasnt. its from california.
2008-01-02 10:36 < Ausir> the saying's not mine, it's [[James D. Nicoll]]'s :)
2008-01-02 10:36 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Well that explains a lot then.
2008-01-02 10:36 < Leslie_S> quanticle, its been in michigan for 1 year, and i take really good care of it, keeping the salt washed off it and such.
2008-01-02 10:36 < Rinn> I knew I'd heard it before.
2008-01-02 10:37 < Cyrius> Lycurgus: really cheap whorehouse, apparently
2008-01-02 10:37 < Ausir> TheWeasel: well, there was Webster's reform (mostly failed, though)
2008-01-02 10:37 < Leslie_S> quanticle, there are cars that have survived that long in michigan weather though.....but there not in such nice condition as mine.
2008-01-02 10:37 < Leslie_S> quanticle, mine just needs a paint job and a couple of minor things. and better looking wheels.
2008-01-02 10:38 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Well, I still wouldn't expect this one to last very long in Michigan weather. That's ok, though, since the car has probably already exceeded its designed lifetime...
2008-01-02 10:38 < Ausir> TheWeasel: but I think it's mostly because of the UK and US divide (in addition to other varieties)
2008-01-02 10:39 < Leslie_S> quanticle, why wouldnt it last long?
2008-01-02 10:39 < TheWeasel> yea, but there is an authoritative dictionary for German German
2008-01-02 10:39 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i should have a good 10 or more years before it even starts rusting out.
2008-01-02 10:39 < TheWeasel> when it's changed, official writing must change with it
2008-01-02 10:39 < Ausir> TheWeasel: the situation with UK English and US English is far different from e.g. German German and Austrian German or Swiss German
2008-01-02 10:39 < Leslie_S> quanticle, theres almost no rust on this car.
2008-01-02 10:39 < TheWeasel> I'm quite aware
2008-01-02 10:39 < Ausir> TheWeasel: and in Poland, we have the Polish Language Council
2008-01-02 10:39 < Ausir> that determines what is correct and what isn't
2008-01-02 10:40 < Sepultura> LOL
2008-01-02 10:40 < Leslie_S> quanticle, in the spring i want to go under it and fix the undercoating
2008-01-02 10:40 < Sepultura> Polish Language Council?
2008-01-02 10:40 < TheWeasel> hah, Polish spelling is a wondrous thing.
2008-01-02 10:40 < Leslie_S> quanticle, and that should help things.
2008-01-02 10:40 < quanticle> Leslie_S: I still think 10 years is optimistic if Michigan salts anything like Minnesota
2008-01-02 10:40 < NotACow> polish has spelling?
2008-01-02 10:40 < Leslie_S> quanticle, seriously, what the hell?
2008-01-02 10:40 < Lycurgus> well there's RP in the UK and standard midwestern in the U.S.
2008-01-02 10:40 < Sepultura> does it check spelling of swear words?
2008-01-02 10:40 < Ausir> Sepultura: yes
2008-01-02 10:40 < Leslie_S> quanticle, my last car was 14 years old and from michigan
2008-01-02 10:40 < Ausir> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Language_Council
2008-01-02 10:40 < Ausir> Sepultura: yes
2008-01-02 10:40 < Sepultura> Ausir: lol
2008-01-02 10:41 < Leslie_S> quanticle, and there wasnt much wrong with it. it had two really tiny rust holes, and the brakes went out due to rusted brake lines.
2008-01-02 10:41 < Sepultura> I can speak polish but never heard about the council
2008-01-02 10:41 < Ausir> Lycurgus: RP is pronunciation, not spelling
2008-01-02 10:41 < TheWeasel> Does the UK government have to stick to one form of spelling?
2008-01-02 10:41 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Do you store the car outside?
2008-01-02 10:41 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the brake thing was a pretty big deal, but i caught it before air got into the lines and fixed it for cheap.
2008-01-02 10:41 < Ausir> same with "standard midwestern"
2008-01-02 10:41 < Leslie_S> quanticle, yeah..
2008-01-02 10:41 < Sepultura> The Universities :P
2008-01-02 10:41 < Nathyn> I need help, plz!
2008-01-02 10:41 < Nathyn> Somebody check this diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Zenwhat/Sandbox&diff=181617569&oldid=181616166
2008-01-02 10:41 < Leslie_S> quanticle, my last car wasnt taken care of at all by the previous owner. oil looked like tra.
2008-01-02 10:41 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i sold it because i didnt like it.
2008-01-02 10:41 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Huh. I've never had good luck with cars stored outside in cold weather
2008-01-02 10:41 < NotACow> tra?
2008-01-02 10:41 < NotACow> what's tra?
2008-01-02 10:41 < Nathyn> Even though I only changed the text alignment parameter of the navbox template, for some reason, it radically changed the text formatting.
2008-01-02 10:41 < Ausir> TheWeasel: probably OED is considered authoritative in the UK
2008-01-02 10:41 < Drunken_Idiot> :(
2008-01-02 10:42 < Drunken_Idiot> Pakistan going to be in ..................
2008-01-02 10:42 < Lycurgus> true;but that OED are about it for English as far as authorities are concerned. I'm unaware of anything like the Acadamie Francais or it's Spanish counterpart.
2008-01-02 10:42 < TheWeasel> heh, the interesting thing is whether it's prescribed.
2008-01-02 10:42 < kenlyric> Ausir: technically, that's called North Midland
2008-01-02 10:42 < Leslie_S> quanticle, so if a car can last for 14 years with no major rust issues (other than the brakeline thing, which was an incredibly big deal...) in michigan for the whole time, than my car should last 14 more years.
2008-01-02 10:42 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Anyway, its not the rust that's scary, its the rear wheel drive..
2008-01-02 10:42 < Lycurgus> s/that/that and/
2008-01-02 10:42 < kenlyric> and actually, it's not really "standard" either.. it's just closer to accentless american than other dialects.
2008-01-02 10:42 < Ausir> Lycurgus: or the Polish Language Council :)
2008-01-02 10:43 < Ausir> kenlyric: yup
2008-01-02 10:43 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the engines also last for like 400,000 miles on these cars. i have about another 150,000 left before the engine is a write off.
2008-01-02 10:43 < kenlyric> and horribly, TV is slowly turning into Pacific Southwest.
2008-01-02 10:43 < quanticle> Leslie_S: My neighbor has rear-wheel drive on a 2002 Lincoln, and every time it snows, he can't get out of his driveway
2008-01-02 10:43 < TheWeasel> it's like, someone from the government writes a form letter to a citizen, spelling out a Cockney accent
2008-01-02 10:43 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i have snow tires and have never gotten stuck, and i drove it yesterday.
2008-01-02 10:43 < Leslie_S> quanticle, yesterday was horrible.
2008-01-02 10:43 < TheWeasel> Is that form invalid?
2008-01-02 10:44 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Yeah. My neighbor just has all-weather radials, not snow tires.
2008-01-02 10:44 < Ausir> anyway, English approach to spelling and pronunciation compared to other European lanaugages, with their language authorities, is very much like common law compared to the law of continental europe
2008-01-02 10:44 < Leslie_S> quanticle, and he probably doesnt have brand new tires with less than 2000 miles on them like i have, either.
2008-01-02 10:44 < Ausir> based on precedence rather than codified
2008-01-02 10:44 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Yeah. That's true, as well.
2008-01-02 10:44 < TheWeasel> Common law is much harder to change than written law, even though it looks so anything-goes
2008-01-02 10:45 < Leslie_S> quanticle, anyway, so as long as i watch out for rust and take care of it before its a big deal, the body of this car should last indefinitely. once the engine is gone, the car's worthless.....the engine is usually the longest lasting component on these things... :P
2008-01-02 10:45 < kenlyric> it works the same way in the US.
2008-01-02 10:45 < kenlyric> supreme court decisions are, for all practical purposes, much like common law.
2008-01-02 10:45 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i wanna keep it for as long as i can and see how many miles i can put on it. the only problem is that it didnt have a working odometer when i got it. so im not totally sure of how many miles are on it.
2008-01-02 10:45 < Ausir> kenlyric: yes, I was talking about both US and UK
2008-01-02 10:45 < TheWeasel> Common law is spoken law.
2008-01-02 10:45 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Yeah, you should be OK for a while, especially since you've got snow tires? Do you stick sandbags in the trunk?
2008-01-02 10:45 < TheWeasel> so any court contributes
2008-01-02 10:45 < quanticle> s/?.
2008-01-02 10:45 < Leslie_S> quanticle, no, but i have a sub.
2008-01-02 10:45 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i also dont HAVE a trunk.
2008-01-02 10:45 < Ausir> it's just a funny observation that English-speaking countries have similar approach to both law and language
2008-01-02 10:46 < kenlyric> not all that funny :)
2008-01-02 10:46 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Well, how much does the sub weigh?
2008-01-02 10:46 < Leslie_S> quanticle, 50lb?
2008-01-02 10:46 < kenlyric> our first lawyers were british..
2008-01-02 10:46 * TheWeasel thinks that the Common Law is far less flexible than the English language
2008-01-02 10:46 < Leslie_S> quanticle, probably another 10lb in the amps that are mounted on the back seat
2008-01-02 10:46 < kenlyric> nothing is more flexible than the English language :)
2008-01-02 10:46 < Ausir> kenlyric: yes, I mean that the approach to law is similar to the approach to language
2008-01-02 10:46 < Sepultura> Is it a duty for TV Channels in the USA to censor swear words?
2008-01-02 10:47 < kenlyric> what other language could come up with "hectivity"
2008-01-02 10:47 < Leslie_S> quanticle, so how long did you think cars lasted around here? 5 years/
2008-01-02 10:47 < TheWeasel> I guess
2008-01-02 10:47 < Ausir> Sepultura: yes
2008-01-02 10:47 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Huh, that's still not a whole lot. My friend puts in 2 to 3 hundred pounds worth of sandbags in the back of his truck for winter
2008-01-02 10:47 < Ausir> Sepultura: see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The FCC Song
2008-01-02 10:47 < Sepultura> Ausir: why?
2008-01-02 10:47 < quanticle> Leslie_S: I thought somewhere around 10-12 years
2008-01-02 10:47 < Ausir> Sepultura: otherwise they get fined by the FCC
2008-01-02 10:47 < kenlyric> Sepultura: the FCC imposes fines if they receive complaints.
2008-01-02 10:47 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Certainly not 21
2008-01-02 10:47 < Sepultura> lol
2008-01-02 10:47 < Ausir> fuck you very much the FCC :)
2008-01-02 10:47 < Leslie_S> quanticle, after about 10 years you need new brake lines here. :)
2008-01-02 10:48 < Sepultura> Insults are legal but swearings not o.O
2008-01-02 10:48 < Leslie_S> quanticle, uh, the car has been in michigan for a year. it was in california until then. duh.
2008-01-02 10:48 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Heh. How much do brake lines cost to fix?
2008-01-02 10:48 < Leslie_S> quanticle, about 40 bucks total DIY
2008-01-02 10:48 < Leslie_S> quanticle, thats if the emergency brake cables arent broken. those are a couple hundred.
2008-01-02 10:48 < TheWeasel> Sepultura: Except if you're Ann Coulter
2008-01-02 10:48 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Don't you have to flush the brake system though?
2008-01-02 10:49 < Leslie_S> quanticle, anyway, about the truck...trucks are made to haul weight. they handle like crap without weight. especially in the winter.
2008-01-02 10:49 < Leslie_S> quanticle, thats another 10 bucks.
2008-01-02 10:49 < quanticle> Leslie_S: The truck is a Ford Ranger...
2008-01-02 10:49 < Leslie_S> quanticle, you dont HAVE to....on my last car, we tried to do that and broke half the bleeder valves off.
2008-01-02 10:49 < Ausir> TheWeasel: well, the best comment on the FCC is Eric Idle's song :)
2008-01-02 10:49 < Leslie_S> quanticle, still, its made to haul something.
2008-01-02 10:50 < quanticle> Leslie_S: I guess, just like an El Dorado...
2008-01-02 10:50 < TheWeasel> I suppose, but it doesn't change anything.
2008-01-02 10:50 < Leslie_S> quanticle, and you do realize my car has only been on salted roads for a year, right?
2008-01-02 10:50 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Yeah. That explains its longevity
2008-01-02 10:50 < Leslie_S> quanticle, it was also owned by the family of a volvo mechanic while it was in california, from when it was bought new.
2008-01-02 10:50 < quanticle> Leslie_S: But not the reason for driving on snow with rear wheel drive
2008-01-02 10:51 < Leslie_S> quanticle, its not that bad. people dealt with it before FWD came out, and even then continued to drive them.
2008-01-02 10:51 < Lycurgus> the common law and napoleonic codes conferred advantages in their time but a reset is needed. The chinese had an even more venerable system but they junked it and that's why they now can make transitions in a few years that took other countries decades
2008-01-02 10:51 < TheWeasel> Our civil law has veered off the Napoleonic path quite a bit
2008-01-02 10:51 < quanticle> Leslie_S: That's like saying people dealt with driving a horse-and-buggy through snow before cars came out
2008-01-02 10:51 < Ausir> Lycurgus: I wouldn't want my country to implement Chinese criminal law :)
2008-01-02 10:51 < TheWeasel> the general sense is still comparable
2008-01-02 10:52 < TheWeasel> Poland uses French-style civil law as well IIRC
2008-01-02 10:52 < Ausir> TheWeasel: yes
2008-01-02 10:52 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i'll let you know the first time i get the car stuck.
2008-01-02 10:52 < quanticle> Lycurgus: Its too bad that resets usually require bloody revolutions, though...
2008-01-02 10:52 < TheWeasel> Japan basically copied the German civil code verbatim.
2008-01-02 10:52 < Leslie_S> quanticle, even then, i'll probably be able to get unstuck within minutes.
2008-01-02 10:52 < Lycurgus> ausir: yes, I was thinking civil
2008-01-02 10:52 < Leslie_S> quanticle, unless i do something REALLY dumb, like i did with my snowmobile last year
2008-01-02 10:53 < Leslie_S> i drove my snowmobile in a blizzard and put it in a ditch i couldnt see (ditch was full of snow)
2008-01-02 10:53 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Ouch
2008-01-02 10:53 < quanticle> Leslie_S: And it sank?
2008-01-02 10:54 < Ausir> anyway, how is the existence of the FCC consistent with the first amendment?
2008-01-02 10:54 < TheWeasel> Ausir: the four words: "think of the children"
2008-01-02 10:54 < quanticle> Leslie_S: I thought snowmobiles compacted snow as they went, so you should have been able to reverse out, no?
2008-01-02 10:55 < Lycurgus> quanticle: yes that used to be the case but cf. my entry in talk on [[Revolution]] sect. " ... next American Revolution ..". bbl.
2008-01-02 10:55 < TheWeasel> it's a good idea, but it seems to be a wee bit hyperactive
2008-01-02 10:56 < Ausir> TheWeasel: yes, hearing the word "fuck" or seeing a pair of tits would no doubt make any child into violent criminals
2008-01-02 10:56 < Ausir> as opposed to seeing brutal acts of violence freely available in TV :)
2008-01-02 10:56 < TheWeasel> ...which just recruits them for wars
2008-01-02 10:56 < Ausir> funny that Germany doesn't censor sex or profanities on TV, but censors violence
2008-01-02 10:57 < TheWeasel> We censor types of sex, no profanities usually
2008-01-02 10:57 < quanticle> Ausir: I've always found American to be a little bit third-world in that respect. We still have puritanical beliefs about language and sex, but no issues at all with violence
2008-01-02 10:57 < TheWeasel> violence only in the sense of programming time
2008-01-02 10:57 < quanticle> TheWeasel: You mean in Germany?
2008-01-02 10:57 < TheWeasel> yea
2008-01-02 10:57 < Ausir> and Poland censors anti-catholic stuff :(
2008-01-02 10:57 < TheWeasel> heh
2008-01-02 10:57 < quanticle> Ausir: And Turkey censors anti-Turkish stuff...
2008-01-02 10:58 < TheWeasel> and Chavez... anti-Chavez stuff
2008-01-02 10:58 < Ausir> some guy was fired from Polish TV for calling the pope "pope" instead of "Holy Father" on air
2008-01-02 10:58 < TheWeasel> yea, there's something in the Criminal Code called "Slander of a religious communities" or something, but few people are being called to court for that these days
2008-01-02 10:58 < kenlyric> quanticle: well, that's what makes us puritanical :)
2008-01-02 10:59 < kenlyric> that bible, it loves the violence.
2008-01-02 10:59 < Ausir> TheWeasel: unfortunately, people are being called to court for that pretty regularly here
2008-01-02 10:59 < TheWeasel> kenlyric: Spelt W-H-O-L-E-S-O-M-E
2008-01-02 10:59 < Ausir> TheWeasel: but only if they slander catholicism
2008-01-02 10:59 < TheWeasel> o.o
2008-01-02 10:59 < TheWeasel> is Catholicism a de iure state religion?
2008-01-02 10:59 < Ausir> no, but it is de facto
2008-01-02 11:00 < TheWeasel> I see
2008-01-02 11:00 < TheWeasel> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversation love the caption
2008-01-02 11:00 < quanticle> Ausir: Well its obvious that Catholicism is the only valid religion. All other are blasphemy and practitioners are to be punished by excommunication... :)
2008-01-02 11:00 < Ausir> just like it used to be in Spain before Zapatero took over
2008-01-02 11:00 < Ausir> I wish we had a Polish Zapaterski :)
2008-01-02 11:00 < TheWeasel> quanticle: I've heard a complaint to that effect from the Protestant bishop of Berlin
2008-01-02 11:00 < bumm13> shoemaker? :)
2008-01-02 11:01 < TheWeasel> that the pope keeps calling other faiths "incomplete"
2008-01-02 11:01 < Ausir> yes
2008-01-02 11:01 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Isn't the Pope, as head of Catholicism, sort of required to call other faiths incomplete by the very nature of Catholic beliefs?
2008-01-02 11:02 < TheWeasel> Yea, but he could be less of a dick about it
2008-01-02 11:02 < TheWeasel> I guess we're just not that used to it here in Europe
2008-01-02 11:02 < Ausir> we're used to it in Poland
2008-01-02 11:02 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-02 11:02 < TheWeasel> the ecumenical movement was pretty far before JP II died
2008-01-02 11:02 < Sepultura> what will happen if you send a letter which says "you are an arsehole Mr President" to the US-President ?
2008-01-02 11:02 < TheWeasel> now it's close to dead
2008-01-02 11:03 < Leslie_S> im gonna go unbury my car and such
2008-01-02 11:03 < Ausir> catholic church in Poland is now protesting against state founding of in vitro
2008-01-02 11:03 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Well that's what you get when the head of the Office of the Preservation of Faith (Formerly: Inquisition) gets elected to Pope
2008-01-02 11:03 < TheWeasel> Sepultura: You get an order, provided you live in Cuba
2008-01-02 11:03 < Leslie_S> quanticle, most snowmobiles dont HAVE reverse.
2008-01-02 11:03 < NotACow> TheWeasel: well, that's what happens when you make Emperor Palpatine Pope.
2008-01-02 11:03 < Ausir> quanticle: it was the same with John Paul 2
2008-01-02 11:03 < TheWeasel> quanticle: Catholic wonks :-/
2008-01-02 11:03 < Leslie_S> quanticle, also, theres no way it wouldve gone back up even if i had reverse...too steep and angled.
2008-01-02 11:03 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Oh. I thought snowmoblies could back up, like ATVs
2008-01-02 11:03 < Ausir> and pretty much any other pope
2008-01-02 11:03 < Leslie_S> quanticle, most ATVs cant either....
2008-01-02 11:04 < quanticle> Really? That's odd...
2008-01-02 11:04 < TheWeasel> People who aren't Catholic explode if they take Eucharist
2008-01-02 11:04 < Leslie_S> quanticle, thats an expensive option.
2008-01-02 11:04 < TheWeasel> it's a proven fact
2008-01-02 11:04 < NotACow> BEEP BEEP
2008-01-02 11:04 < quanticle> There's no real reason for it, since most ATVs are 4 wheeled, unlike motorcycles
2008-01-02 11:04 < LawrenceWCohen> happy new year
2008-01-02 11:04 < TheWeasel> Why, just yesterday...
2008-01-02 11:04 < Leslie_S> quanticle, anyway, even if it could bauc up, it wouldnt have gone up.
2008-01-02 11:04 < TheWeasel> LawrenceWCohen: And to you.
2008-01-02 11:04 < Ausir> TheWeasel: just like non-scientologists explode when they read OT III
2008-01-02 11:04 < Leslie_S> quanticle, it wouldve just slid sideways
2008-01-02 11:04 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Could you have gone further down the ditch and found a less steep place to get out?
2008-01-02 11:05 < TheWeasel> So that was the loud bang I heard from my neighbor's flat the other night.
2008-01-02 11:05 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the snow was up to the top of the hood. i was totally buried
2008-01-02 11:05 < bumm13> nah, that was their meth lab exploding :)
2008-01-02 11:05 < TheWeasel> Hm.
2008-01-02 11:05 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Ah, so the snowmobile, sort of plunged in head-first...
2008-01-02 11:05 < quanticle> That sucks
2008-01-02 11:05 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i started digging it out with my hands to make a path and try to drive it or drag it out, but some mexicans in a 4v4 stopped and offered me help
2008-01-02 11:05 < Leslie_S> quanticle, no, it didnt....
2008-01-02 11:06 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the snow was just about as deep as the snowmobile...
2008-01-02 11:06 < Leslie_S> it was level and paralel with the ditch when it stopped.
2008-01-02 11:06 < Ausir> Orthodox Church in Greece has a similar status to Catholic Church in Poland
2008-01-02 11:06 < Leslie_S> anyway, im gonna go dig my car out.
2008-01-02 11:06 < Leslie_S> maybe ill actually FIND it.
2008-01-02 11:07 < quanticle> Find what?
2008-01-02 11:07 < TheWeasel> one of the greatest judicial decisions in German history was the Reich Court acquitting [[George Grosz]] from the charge of blasphemy
2008-01-02 11:07 < Ausir> in the Czech Republic, on the other hand, 70% are atheists
2008-01-02 11:08 < quanticle> Ausir: What is OT III?
2008-01-02 11:08 < TheWeasel> he drew a Jesus with a gas mask on the cross and a voice said "shut up and keep serving"
2008-01-02 11:08 < Ausir> quanticle: [[OT III]], [[Xenu]]
2008-01-02 11:08 < quanticle> TheWeasel: When was this?
2008-01-02 11:08 < TheWeasel> 1927
2008-01-02 11:08 < NotACow> hah
2008-01-02 11:09 < TheWeasel> the final acquittal, after four appeals, came in 1929
2008-01-02 11:10 < TheWeasel> and it was a beautiful, beautiful reasoning
2008-01-02 11:15 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Is there an article on this decsion?
2008-01-02 11:15 < TheWeasel> probably not
2008-01-02 11:16 < TheWeasel> not even on de.
2008-01-02 11:17 < Ausir> {{sowriteit}} :)
2008-01-02 11:18 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the car
2008-01-02 11:18 < TheWeasel> oh well... it's not necessarily significant, especially since it refers to a set of laws no longer extant
2008-01-02 11:18 < Leslie_S> quanticle, i found the car though
2008-01-02 11:18 < Ausir> TheWeasel: at least the section in the article about that could be expanded :)
2008-01-02 11:18 < Ausir> or at least translated from de to en :
2008-01-02 11:18 < Ausir> :)
2008-01-02 11:18 < TheWeasel> it was just unusually passionate, unusually progressive and unusually... flowery in style
2008-01-02 11:19 < TheWeasel> yea, I'll do that later
2008-01-02 11:19 < TheWeasel> ...more like a SCOTUS decisions
2008-01-02 11:19 < TheWeasel> -s
2008-01-02 11:19 < TheWeasel> boy do those people ever like to ramble
2008-01-02 11:19 < TheWeasel> but at the same time, that makes the decisions more readable
2008-01-02 11:19 < Leslie_S> the greatest judicial decision ever was the US supreme court declaring income tax unconstitutional
2008-01-02 11:19 < Leslie_S> :P
2008-01-02 11:20 < Leslie_S> how did they let that fall out of precednt anyway?
2008-01-02 11:20 < TheWeasel> did they?
2008-01-02 11:21 < TheWeasel> That sounds like a libertarian myth
2008-01-02 11:21 < Leslie_S> its true
2008-01-02 11:21 < TheWeasel> which case?
2008-01-02 11:21 < Leslie_S> ill find out the name of the case and the year later
2008-01-02 11:21 < quanticle> LeslieS: That was overridden by an amendment to the Constitution
2008-01-02 11:21 < Leslie_S> i forgot :(
2008-01-02 11:21 < TheWeasel> oh, I see
2008-01-02 11:21 < TheWeasel> yea.
2008-01-02 11:22 < TheWeasel> quanticle: Right, and the myth consists in the allegedly invalidity of that amendment
2008-01-02 11:22 < quanticle> Leslie_S: Amendment 16: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
2008-01-02 11:22 < Leslie_S> ah
2008-01-02 11:23 < Leslie_S> is that really legal to add that amendment though?
2008-01-02 11:23 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Correct. It is a myth, because only other amendments may override constitutional amendment
2008-01-02 11:23 < grandrew> hi all! wikibookspar has a bug? see for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Artificial_intelligence has a broken link to wikibooks containing one more slash '/'
2008-01-02 11:23 < Leslie_S> quanticle, the decision was before that amendment
2008-01-02 11:23 < Leslie_S> quanticle, it really happened.
2008-01-02 11:23 < TheWeasel> Right, so the decision probably said "you can't levy that tax if you don't do a, b and c, which you didn't."
2008-01-02 11:24 < quanticle> Leslie_S: The Amendment was a response to the decision, if I recall my history correctly
2008-01-02 11:24 < TheWeasel> and the amendment basically just made it easier
2008-01-02 11:26 < TheWeasel> Anyway, the Const. Court here had great fun killing taxes here for a time
2008-01-02 11:26 < TheWeasel> there's an equal treatment clause in the constitution, and it seems to signify surprisingly detailed things to judges
2008-01-02 11:26 < grandrew> where should i submit bugs?
2008-01-02 11:27 < quanticle> TheWeasel: Just like our 14th Amendment decisions here, then...
2008-01-02 11:27 < TheWeasel> well, ours is broader
2008-01-02 11:28 < TheWeasel> it says "when you do something to people, you need a good reason to differentiate the equal and treat the equal differently"
2008-01-02 11:28 < TheWeasel> and that gives a boatload of discretion to the judges
2008-01-02 11:28 < TheWeasel> I'm not a judicial-activism nagger, but I do see some problems sometimes
2008-01-02 12:01 < NotACow> moo
2008-01-02 12:01 < LawrenceWCohen> I suppose everyone is still hung over.
2008-01-02 12:02 < Nuskrad> I'm not!
2008-01-02 12:02 < LawrenceWCohen> what the hell is fursecution? these articles are absurd.
2008-01-02 12:02 < Nuskrad> I've not drank alcohol since uhhh
2008-01-02 12:03 < Nuskrad> 13th December, I think
2008-01-02 12:04 < bjweeks> LawrenceWCohen: persecution against furries
2008-01-02 12:05 < LawrenceWCohen> oh.
2008-01-02 12:06 < LawrenceWCohen> these furry articles are lacking in sourcing in a big major way
2008-01-02 12:07 < mavhk> that's not the only thing they're lacking
2008-01-02 12:07 * NotACow hasn't drank alcohol since 10:45 last night
2008-01-02 12:09 < shimgray> "...cost of this war is approaching $15 billion a month, with the Army spending $4.2 billion of that ..." - US senator on Iraq.
2008-01-02 12:09 < shimgray> One really has to wonder how on earth the US Army accounts for *under a third* of expenditures there
2008-01-02 12:11 < NotACow> shimgray: halliburton
2008-01-02 12:11 < NotACow> shimgray: we spend far more money on private contracted services than on military personnel.
2008-01-02 12:11 < shimgray> plus blackwater, et al, yeah
2008-01-02 12:11 < shimgray> did you read Imperial Life in the Emerald City, incidentally?
2008-01-02 12:11 < NotACow> no, i haven't
2008-01-02 12:12 < shimgray> worth tracking down
2008-01-02 12:20 * TheWeasel coughs
2008-01-02 12:21 < TheWeasel> j'ai l'honneur de/ne pas te de-/mander/ta main/ne gravons pas nos noms au bas d'un parchemin
2008-01-02 12:22 < mavhk> so bin laden's plan to bankrupt america is going well then
2008-01-02 12:23 < mavhk> his cost:benefit ratio is rather high
2008-01-02 12:23 * TheWeasel doesn't believe OBL has a plan at all
2008-01-02 12:24 < mavhk> fuck stuff up, run away, spend 8 years laughing his head off and making youtube videos
2008-01-02 12:24 < Aqwis> why do i always think of that Bin Laden-family-in-Sweden picture when i hear his name =/
2008-01-02 12:25 < mavhk> of course now he's so popular people are making those parody videos so well they get confused for the real thing
2008-01-02 12:28 < TheWeasel> which is a healthy way of dealing with it.
2008-01-02 12:28 < TheWeasel> As opposed to cowering in a corner
2008-01-02 12:28 < Vox_Humana_8> Hi
2008-01-02 12:28 < TheWeasel> ello
2008-01-02 12:28 < Vox_Humana_8> Anyone here an AfD expert?
2008-01-02 12:33 < Pilotguy> Vox_Humana_8- No.
2008-01-02 12:34 < Vox_Humana_8> Anyway, Pilotguy, I'm sorting it out on #wikipedia-en
2008-01-02 12:36 < NotACow> why would anyone want to be an afd expert?
2008-01-02 12:36 < NotACow> sounds hideous.
2008-01-02 12:37 < Rinn> Sounds like an STD!
2008-01-02 12:37 < Drunken_Idiot> Hi NotACow
2008-01-02 12:38 < Vox_Humana_8> Heheheheh
2008-01-02 12:40 < Vox_Humana_8> NotACow - could your IRC name possibly be violating http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:UN#Similar_usernames ? Given that we've got NotASpy around too...
2008-01-02 12:40 < Aqwis> i don't really think she cares =/
2008-01-02 12:41 < NotASpy> oh, we've been stealing each others Tab completes for months now, it's quite good fun.
2008-01-02 12:42 < quanticle> Vox_Humana_8: If you're going to harass NotACow about that, then you have to get White_Cat, Brown_Cat, Ceiling_Cat and LOUD_CAT as well
2008-01-02 12:42 < Vox_Humana_8> Hmm
2008-01-02 12:42 < Vox_Humana_8> I suppose so
2008-01-02 12:42 < shimgray> Don't forget NotACat, who's screwed either way
2008-01-02 12:43 < Vox_Humana_8> NotASpy - WTF are Tab completes?
2008-01-02 12:43 < quanticle> Vox_Humana_8: And Shiroi_Neko for good measure
2008-01-02 12:43 < Vox_Humana_8> quanticle: why shiroi_neko?
2008-01-02 12:43 < quanticle> Vox_Humana_8: Shiroi_neko == white_cat in japanese
2008-01-02 12:43 < NotASpy> there's NotASysop, NotAPuff, NotAHorse, Not_the_NSA and a whole host of others too.
2008-01-02 12:43 < Vox_Humana_8> Ah right
2008-01-02 12:43 < OverlordQ> Vox_Humana_8: most IRC clients you can type the first few letters of a name and hit tab and it'll fill it out with the best match
2008-01-02 12:43 < Vox_Humana_8> Oh Gods above